Does IEW suck the joy & creativity out of writing?

[happyWImom]

I know-not another IEW thread! :eek:  I have been going back & reading some older ones, but got impatient.  :D

 

My dd actually enjoys writing for fun, and has started several "books".  She also likes to do reports-when she picks the topic.  And, she is pretty creative.  But, her writing definitely needs some fine tuning, and we haven't done a lot of formal stuff or outlines.  We've only done WWE 1&2, R&S Eng 4 (with the bits of writing instruction) and started Wordsmith App. this year.  While she enjoys writing, she struggles (and fights me) on actual writing instruction.  So far Wordsmith App. is okay (we are pretty behind with it, though) but for example, when she has been told to do a short summary or narration, she can't seem to contain it all in bite size bits.  The "books" she's written have been pretty good but are really similar and based on things she's read.  

 

This leads me to believe that she just needs more instruction, but I don't want her to end up totally hating it.  She's very creative in other ways, too, and I was just wondering if IEW would be a good fit for someone like her.

 

My ds would probably thrive with it.  He does very well with something formulaic, loves to follow instructions, step by step type things are perfect for him.  But, I hate to spend the money if only one of them is going to use it.  (Not to mention the time)

[Julie of KY]

My analytical math boy did great with IEW. I've taught IEW classes to kids that love to write and the parents have loved the results. I'm not sure it's what you are looking for, but it might be just the tool you need.

[matrips]

For my kids, no. It helps them find joy and creativity in it because it gives them the ideas of how to write and what to include. They don't need to think about it. So they can enjoy the time finding that strong verb or adjective or figuring out how to get an adverbial clause in it instead. They are impressed with how much better their writing has turned out and they can turn out a paragraph or three so easily. Much quicker than before. My strongest writer is still my strongest and my guy that never enjoyed writing and would really struggle on what to write has become decent. Still writes the shortest papers, but ... And my other is somewhere in between. They are all 9yoa and we are halfway through SWI a.

[Momofeat]

I have taught several IEW classes, and I have had students who sound a lot like your dd. To be honest, it sounds to me like she might feel that way with any program that put parameters on her writing. For some students, their writing is so personal that they cringe at any constructive criticism--especially when it comes from Mom.

 

No matter what program you choose, I would recommend that you place her in a class. That way, the criticism will feel less personal to her because it will come from an impartial teacher. 

 

IEW covers 9 units of writing. Some of the units, like "Writing from Pictures" and "Writing from the Brain" give the students more creative freedom, while the units on report writing will probably stifle it a bit. She will need to know how to write more than stories, though, so learning to be creative within the set boundaries is not such a bad thing. My oldest dd(14) is rather creative, so she sometimes chafed against the requirements for writing reports. This year, though, she is taking a biology class, and the teacher made it clear that lab reports are not the place for creative writing. The IEW instruction had prepared her well for the moment that she needed to complete a writing outside of IEW class.

 

On the other hand, IEW also teaches students to incorporate essential elements into their stories (like conflict), and it teaches them techniques that can help them add style to their stories. Eventually, you may want to consider a course that focuses 100% on creative writing, but I would use that as an "extra" for a season rather than a main writing program over a long stretch of time.

 

I hope you find just what you need for her! :-)

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think it is all in how you present it with a creative child. Some kids view the IEW checklist as a relief, giving them a place to start. Some kids benefit from a more creative presentation. You can introduce the IEW checklist as you would an artist's palette, giving a creative child wonderful new tools to help fully develop the art of writing. ;) My DD is naturally a creative writer (she was born with voice, LOL), and presenting new skills as opportunities for growth has been very successful here. If you are corny in any way (as we are here), you can even retype her IEW checklists on a palette coloring page, with each skill representing a different color or tool.

http://www.education.com/worksheet/article/paint-palette-coloring-page/

[prissygirls]

Not at all. My girls (4th & 5th grade) just started IEW this year through Essentials in CC. They find it so much easier to write an essay now. They know the process and so writing come so much easier. We just love IEW.

[Mommamia]

For us, yes it did suck the joy out of writing. We have found a balance of Bravewriter and an outsourced formulaic writing class has helped. The key word outline did not work well for me, or my dc. Though, I know others have loved that aspect of the program. Sometimes you just have to try for yourself and see. They do have a good return policy.

[happyWImom]

For my kids, no. It helps them find joy and creativity in it because it gives them the ideas of how to write and what to include. They don't need to think about it. So they can enjoy the time finding that strong verb or adjective or figuring out how to get an adverbial clause in it instead. They are impressed with how much better their writing has turned out and they can turn out a paragraph or three so easily. Much quicker than before. My strongest writer is still my strongest and my guy that never enjoyed writing and would really struggle on what to write has become decent. Still writes the shortest papers, but ... And my other is somewhere in between. They are all 9yoa and we are halfway through SWI a.

That is very good to know.  As I said, my ds would probably love it, but with dd, if I was able to show her how it could definitely improve her writing and make it stronger, it might work for us.

[happyWImom]

I have taught several IEW classes, and I have had students who sound a lot like your dd. To be honest, it sounds to me like she might feel that way with any program that put parameters on her writing. For some students, their writing is so personal that they cringe at any constructive criticism--especially when it comes from Mom.

 

No matter what program you choose, I would recommend that you place her in a class. That way, the criticism will feel less personal to her because it will come from an impartial teacher. 

 

IEW covers 9 units of writing. Some of the units, like "Writing from Pictures" and "Writing from the Brain" give the students more creative freedom, while the units on report writing will probably stifle it a bit. She will need to know how to write more than stories, though, so learning to be creative within the set boundaries is not such a bad thing. My oldest dd(14) is rather creative, so she sometimes chafed against the requirements for writing reports. This year, though, she is taking a biology class, and the teacher made it clear that lab reports are not the place for creative writing. The IEW instruction had prepared her well for the moment that she needed to complete a writing outside of IEW class.

 

On the other hand, IEW also teaches students to incorporate essential elements into their stories (like conflict), and it teaches them techniques that can help them add style to their stories. Eventually, you may want to consider a course that focuses 100% on creative writing, but I would use that as an "extra" for a season rather than a main writing program over a long stretch of time.

 

I hope you find just what you need for her! :-)

I think you've nailed my dd!  If our hs Co-op did IEW, and someone else was the teacher, I think dd would be fine with it.  You've inspired me to talk them into it for next year!

[freesia]

Not for us. It took the stress out of writing so that writing was no longer to be dreaded. My formally sobbing under the table at the mention of writing son began writing stories on his own time. I use it less strictly with my natural writer, but honestly that is because she caught on quickly. She is now using WWS, but I would have had no problem using IEW with her if WWS didn't exist. When I needed to teach dd and ds together one year using IEW, it was fine. It didn't stilt her at all. She continued writing her own stories in her room on her own time.

[matrips]

Part of why I think we have such success is that I bought SWI A and Andrew Pudewa teaches them, not me. I will enforce or explain or replay parts, and I will give them the help that he wants us to give (I also bought TWSS for myself and watch and read that for myself-reminds me of what my part is!), but I am not the writing teacher. They watch the video of him teaching the class and giving the assignments; they raise their hands and participate along with the class wanting to answer the questions and read their stories out loud too. So if you do not have an outside teacher or coop class, SWI might be a great option for you since your dd does not want you to instruct her. Andrew is humorous and has a nice way with the kids.

[AmyontheFarm]

IEW brought joy back to writing for us.  My son used to sob when he say me heading to the shelf where our old program was stored.  Now, he asked to do IEW and loves it.

[Guest]

My children loved IEW, and Andrew Pudewa.  Writing was always one of their favorite parts of the day.  I never left them to do it on their own though.  We would always brainstorm the key word outline together, and possible dress-ups.  They were upset when I bought them a different curriculum after SWI-B to give them a different writing perspective.  I miss it too :glare: .

[Targhee]

My dd is both highly creative and highly logical/mathematical. She hated IEW. She is quiet and rather dutiful and doesn't speak up much, and this was the only curriculum she complained about. She detested that she had to KWO and then rewrite someone else's creative story! It wasn't much better for nonfiction. I think she realized that she wasn't adding anything new or original to the world in doing SWI A and didn't see the point in doing it.

[happyWImom]

My dd is both highly creative and highly logical/mathematical. She hated IEW. She is quiet and rather dutiful and doesn't speak up much, and this was the only curriculum she complained about. She detested that she had to KWO and then rewrite someone else's creative story! It wasn't much better for nonfiction. I think she realized that she wasn't adding anything new or original to the world in doing SWI A and didn't see the point in doing it.

What did you end up using for her?

[Butter]

Not at all (but the writing part of Shurley English sure did).  Actually IEW was such a fabulous thing for my daughter.  Because of Andrew Pudewa's humor and how it was presented, she just blossomed in her writing and found a deeper and deeper love for it.  So much so that she applied to, and was accepted in, a creative writing magnet school for high school.  Interestingly, a lot of the IEW techniques are used in the creative writing classes.

[Rebel Yell]

It not only sucked the joy of writing out of Diamond, she refused to write for over a year after. This was a high-school co-op class, so I had no control over the course. Also, Diamond wanted so much to like the class and become a better writer that I had no idea how awful it was for her until halfway through the spring semester.

 

All of the adverbiness and strong powerful verbs drove her nuts. She would turn in assignments, get As, and gag over the horrible story she wrote.

[Chelli]

It did for my dd10. It worked for a bit (about three months), then she started balking. She loved Mr. Pudewa, but that was it.

 

I wasn't impressed with the program. It was SOOOO formulaic that I felt it stifled her voice rather than help her find it. And the KWO was awkward. And the dress ups were forced instead of flowing naturally.

 

I'm constantly amazed at how the programs that 90% of homeschoolers use and love are horrible failures here. I think we're our own brand of odd.

[Alte Veste Academy]

As to complaints about writing sounding formulaic, stilted, awkward, etc., I will say that (whether using IEW or not) I always have my kids read and reread their own writing aloud to themselves as part of the process. They catch a lot of their own bad writing that way. Just including the elements isn't enough here; they must learn to use them well. To that end, I edit, we partner, they tweak, I edit, we partner, they tweak... We work until it is right.

I truly do not understand the idea of abandoning IEW due to a student using elements incorrectly and/or producing stilted, incorrect writing. Here, that would be evidence that my students need more work on those elements, not less. I don't sigh and think how awkward. I say to my student, a, b, and c are really good, but x, y, and z sound a bit awkward, so let's see how we might change it up. Tools are removed from the checklist when kids have them down pat. I don't think it is up to IEW to teach my kids; I think it is up to me to teach IEW (and/or any other resource). I am in the trenches with writing. Mere introduction of tools isn't going to magically make my kids sound like seasoned writers from the start. They have to practice using the tools, and I am their coach.

Also, I get complaints about the KWO. We tweaked it. Still, it is one element of IEW, not the whole shebang. As with any program, you can take what you like and leave what you don't. You can modify the checklists to suit your student(s) and your own taste. Of course, most of my IEW teaching has been with TWSS, so that does make it easier.

[Wildwood]

May I ask what "KWO" is ?

Thank you : )

[FloridaLisa]

I have a dc that is much like your dd -- wrote easily and prolifically and published books.  He was also a voracious reader and he had a lot of natural instinctive writing style. 

 

I like to use IEW for a year or two, but not every year.  IEW teaches a great structure for formal writing.  If your dd is already using many of the stylistic "dress-ups", she can continue to use them.  She will likely learn a few more style conventions and learn how to improve her already natural writing ability.  

 

When I used IEW, I did not strictly adhere to the dress-up rules.  That can cause very awkward writing b/c many students don't yet know how to employ the style elements properly.  They use an adverb opening incorrectly, for example. So use IEW as a tool, but give your dd some leniency in the rules.  That will allow her to mine the best from IEW without creating stilted, grammatically incorrect pieces. 

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Angie in VA]

May I ask what "KWO" is ?

Thank you : )

 

KWO = key word outline

[WishboneDawn]

I know-not another IEW thread! :eek: I have been going back & reading some older ones, but got impatient. :D

My dd actually enjoys writing for fun, and has started several "books". She also likes to do reports-when she picks the topic. And, she is pretty creative. But, her writing definitely needs some fine tuning, and we haven't done a lot of formal stuff or outlines. We've only done WWE 1&2, R&S Eng 4 (with the bits of writing instruction) and started Wordsmith App. this year. While she enjoys writing, she struggles (and fights me) on actual writing instruction. So far Wordsmith App. is okay (we are pretty behind with it, though) but for example, when she has been told to do a short summary or narration, she can't seem to contain it all in bite size bits. The "books" she's written have been pretty good but are really similar and based on things she's read.

This leads me to believe that she just needs more instruction, but I don't want her to end up totally hating it. She's very creative in other ways, too, and I was just wondering if IEW would be a good fit for someone like her.

My ds would probably thrive with it. He does very well with something formulaic, loves to follow instructions, step by step type things are perfect for him. But, I hate to spend the money if only one of them is going to use it. (Not to mention the time)

At your daughter's age, writing very similar and derivative stories should be expected. It's not a clue that she needs more instruction but just a reflection of the fact that's she young and hasn't had time to fill up the ideas reservoir. The cure for that isn't instruction but lots of reading and more varied reading in the coming years.

I'd be tempted to just do some research on narration and summaries, ask more leading questions, press her to distill her answers further, etc. I don't think you need a new program, just some fine tuning in how you handle the issue. And she is still young. This could also be an issue of maturity that spending a lit off money on a new program won't cure.

[Mrs Twain]

IEW and Andrew Pudewa transformed my once pencil-phobic-writing-hating son into a competent writer who enjoys writing.  It is well worth the money IMO.

 

The SWI and the SICC work remarkably better for us than the theme programs which don't have Mr. Pudewa lectures (and jokes). 

 

Also, we do IEW alternately with another writing program.  For example, we complete one IEW lesson with the checklist and then one from our other writing program without a checklist.  I have witnessed great results from using the checklist, but using it every week would wear my kids out.

[Cheryl in CA]

IEW and Andrew Pudewa transformed my once pencil-phobic-writing-hating son into a competent writer who enjoys writing.  It is well worth the money IMO.

 

The SWI and the SICC work remarkably better for us than the theme programs which don't have Mr. Pudewa lectures (and jokes). 

 

Also, we do IEW alternately with another writing program.  For example, we complete one IEW lesson with the checklist and then one from our other writing program without a checklist.  I have witnessed great results from using the checklist, but using it every week would wear my kids out.

 

We too love IEW much more when using the SWI and SICC's.  I tried doing it myself with the themed programs with my older kids and it was a lot more boring and less successful (for them and me).  I'd been to a seminar in person and owned the DVD seminar so it wasn't that I didn't know what to do.  My dd (10) LOVES the videos and watches the seminar DVD's when mentioned in the SWI/SICC teacher manual for fun.  She loves it, loves writing, and is very creative :-)

[Targhee]

What did you end up using for her?

We scrambled for a while, the tried Worsmith Apprentice (got her writing, but it wasn't that great as far as content - minimal learning). This year we used Write@Home. It is great to have someone else giving her feedback and editing. There still isn't a whole lot of teaching. I think we may continue with W@H if I can get the discount again and if I can find something else to supplement with. She is a tough case because she is a natural creative thinker, has great vocabulary, and nice varied sentence structure (all due to reading good books), beginnings if a voice, and does well with short story and descriptive passages but loathes expository writing. She's also a big picture type.

[happyWImom]

We scrambled for a while, the tried Worsmith Apprentice (got her writing, but it wasn't that great as far as content - minimal learning). This year we used Write@Home. It is great to have someone else giving her feedback and editing. There still isn't a whole lot of teaching. I think we may continue with W@H if I can get the discount again and if I can find something else to supplement with. She is a tough case because she is a natural creative thinker, has great vocabulary, and nice varied sentence structure (all due to reading good books), beginnings if a voice, and does well with short story and descriptive passages but loathes expository writing. She's also a big picture type.

I am checking this out!  Thanks!

[happycc]

My favorite writing program of all is outsourced

ATTUNEUP

 

The teacher is awesome and encouraging and the activities are creative and fun. 

It is work though but the kids aren't aware because the kids work with other kids online. 

 

It is for middle school and up though. My 10yrs old daughter who is in 4th grade is chomping on the bit to do it because her older sisters talk about it all the time. My 10yrs old daughter did the creative writing course earlier in the year and enjoyed it so some elementary aged kids could handle it as well. It depends on child and parents.  

 

http://www.attuneup.com/

 

She is very affordable...basically pay what you can. But the courses are really good! My kids writing has improved immensely. She has a way of taking very difficult topics and simplifying it and explaining it very well to kids. You can always email her and she answers all questions. 

 

She has these three week sessions. Sometimes two weeks. Each three or two week session is different and sometimes they build upon each other but people can choose what they want or don't want. 

 

In the fall she does something called the Time Capsule. Kids read Story of the World Medieval or whatever book and then they write about it. She has different focuses/assignments and breaks it down with really short worksheets you print out.  It starts off really simple, subject/verb sentences and moves on slowly to 5 paragraph essay. Lots of great explanations. She is Christian and there is Christian information at times but I know of nonChristians who have been able to gain a lot from her class anyways. 

There are fun games too that the kids play online together. You will need headphones if there are more than one kid doing this and access to the computer. Just download the conference software Join me which is free.