creekland Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Same family. My two younger kids are merely 19 months apart in age. (Me - talking with youngest): "Your English paper is due soon, don't you think you should work on it?" "It's not due until Thursday." "But you've got school during the days, work Monday and Tuesday night, and chess practice followed by youth group Wednesday night... don't you think you'd want a bit more of it done earlier?" "I went through all the sources and marked up the pages... that's all I'm doing right now. I'll get it done." vs (Me talking with middle son - a call from college.) "So, how'd your tests go this week?" "I'm so upset with myself... I did another "idiot error" and it caused me to get a 93% on my Orgo test vs 100%." "Um, isn't a 93% still a decent A?" "Yes, the cut off for an A was 81 and the mean was 61, but I should have noticed that one number in the question - somehow I missed it!" "If it were me, I'd still be happy with the A..." "Oh, I am, but I've got to figure out how to quit making those small errors when I take tests!" "So, how'd your BCS (Brain & Cognitive Science) test go?" "I got 100% on that one. Now I just need to figure out how to not make stupid errors on Orgo..." "Seriously... no one is going to care that you ONLY got a 93. It's still going to show up as an A. You know the rest. That's what matters." "Mom, 'I' care!" Same family - same genders - same upbringing - yet one gets me exasperated and the other makes me insanely jealous of his dedication. It's not the parenting. It's something internal. Now if someone can figure out how to take a small amount of one's dedication and transfer it to the other... FWIW, these same attitudes have been present since their early elementary days. Even close proximity didn't rub off either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredHSmom Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Same family. My two younger kids are merely 19 months apart in age. (Me - talking with youngest): "Your English paper is due soon, don't you think you should work on it?" "It's not due until Thursday." "But you've got school during the days, work Monday and Tuesday night, and chess practice followed by youth group Wednesday night... don't you think you'd want a bit more of it done earlier?" "I went through all the sources and marked up the pages... that's all I'm doing right now. I'll get it done." vs (Me talking with middle son - a call from college.) "So, how'd your tests go this week?" "I'm so upset with myself... I did another "idiot error" and it caused me to get a 93% on my Orgo test vs 100%." "Um, isn't a 93% still a decent A?" "Yes, the cut off for an A was 81 and the mean was 61, but I should have noticed that one number in the question - somehow I missed it!" "If it were me, I'd still be happy with the A..." "Oh, I am, but I've got to figure out how to quit making those small errors when I take tests!" "So, how'd your BCS (Brain & Cognitive Science) test go?" "I got 100% on that one. Now I just need to figure out how to not make stupid errors on Orgo..." "Seriously... no one is going to care that you ONLY got a 93. It's still going to show up as an A. You know the rest. That's what matters." "Mom, 'I' care!" Same family - same genders - same upbringing - yet one gets me exasperated and the other makes me insanely jealous of his dedication. It's not the parenting. It's something internal. Now if someone can figure out how to take a small amount of one's dedication and transfer it to the other... FWIW, these same attitudes have been present since their early elementary days. Even close proximity didn't rub off either way. My oldest two are like this but switched. My oldest was always very laid back, never in a hurry and I couldn't figure out what motivated her. My younger is the incredibly driven one. When the oldest got to college, I was very pleasantly surprised at how hard she works and how ugh she cares. This is her sophomore year. Her grades are very respectable, not perfect, but she is working hard and not procrastinating. Her younger sister still panics over a 93 and has a 3.98 GPA. But both girls are making me very proud with their effort. Your son may surprise you when he gets to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 It bugs me more with youngest because he currently has a D in the course (compared to A or A- in the classes he likes). I'm of the firm belief that if he allowed more time to do papers (and correct/improve them himself) that his grade would improve - but he WILL NOT do this nor learn from his own mistakes. I think he will do well in college - esp in classes he likes. I wish he weren't ok with the "just getting things done" mentality he seems to have picked up otherwise - a common mentality at our school (peer pressure). He used to get As or Bs in English before this year - though admittedly - he's in a tougher class this year. I guess I'm blaming it on senioritis, but I still wish he had something internal to drive himself to do a little more to "fix it." I also wish middle weren't quite so hard on himself as I don't think the stress is good for him. I want to take that "too much" from middle and transfer it to the "not enough" with youngest and end up with a happy middle for both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredHSmom Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I also wish middle weren't quite so hard on himself as I don't think the stress is good for him. I want to take that "too much" from middle and transfer it to the "not enough" with youngest and end up with a happy middle for both. Yep, a D would bother me too especially if he wasn't trying to do better. I feel for you. My oldest daughter has an element of that too. When she does get a bad grade, she doesn't seem to be bothered by it. Even if she studied very hard. She seems to have a great sense of "what will be, will be." But as you alluded to, she is not very stressed at all. She is generally very happy and calm. My younger daughter, who is the dedicated one. Is much more stressed. She has finally, as a junior in college, started realizing that she needs to relax a little. That her life will always be full of important things and that she can't live on high stress alert at all times. She still can't stand the thought of a B and gets upset about low A's. It doesn't help that her college uses + & - so a 93 is not an A in her mind. I too wish that we could transfer some of the "cares too much" so that Anneliese could relax a little but maybe it is better that she learn to relax on her own. She will value the lesson more in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 My younger daughter, who is the dedicated one. Is much more stressed. She has finally, as a junior in college, started realizing that she needs to relax a little. That her life will always be full of important things and that she can't live on high stress alert at all times. She still can't stand the thought of a B and gets upset about low A's. It doesn't help that her college uses + & - so a 93 is not an A in her mind. Middle son still isn't over the only A- he's ever gotten in his life (for a final grade) in his writing class last semester. I fear it will be the only A- he will ever get in his life and he'll still regret it when he's 95 and dealing with dementia... :lol: Fortunately, it doesn't affect the "rest" of his life - he's still a happy, active, young man. He's definitely a perfectionist though. Does your daughter's college not curve? At my guy's college the level for an A (in many classes - not all) depends upon how the students do on the test. For that Orgo test, the A cut off was an 81 (perhaps that was an A-, I'm not sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I have two like this, only of different genders. DD is a perfectionist overachiever, very organized and ambitious. DS is a not very ambitious and not very careful minimalist. And it has nothing to do with DD being older - those trends were clearly visible in elementary school. And both are gifted with almost identical IQ. In fact, I was thinking this morning that I want to ask for advice how not to compare siblings, and how not let DS' schooling be influenced by the incredibly high bar DD has set .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 In fact, I was thinking this morning that I want to ask for advice how not to compare siblings, and how not let DS' schooling be influenced by the incredibly high bar DD has set .. This part is incredibly tough. I don't think I've done it as well as it could be done - not that I haven't tried. I may have tried too much if that makes sense. My inclination to get youngest to do his paper is to "make" him stay there and "do it." He'll respond by doing a far more awful job than he can do - just to prove a point. It drives me batty sometimes, but I remind myself to let him be himself. Fortunately, he does do VERY well in classes he likes and is incredibly loved by his teachers (even the class he has the D in - though she's as exasperated as I am about the quality/timing, etc). He is a "good" kid both socially and academically. It's just tough when he's got a "great" kid academically right next to him. He had to deal with that pressure internally when he was younger - it wasn't pretty. The "good" news is if you adjust your college expectations, they tend to do just fine. In my youngest's case, his "best" college ended up being one that he fits both grade-wise and otherwise. That has given me a great sigh of relief. But I'm still frustrated that he wouldn't work on his paper more this past weekend... when he had time. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Yep. Mine are all over the board. Honestly, I worry much more over the perfectionistic one. It is not healthy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Same family - same genders - same upbringing - yet one gets me exasperated and the other makes me insanely jealous of his dedication. It's not the parenting. It's something internal. Now if someone can figure out how to take a small amount of one's dedication and transfer it to the other... FWIW, these same attitudes have been present since their early elementary days. Even close proximity didn't rub off either way. Same sort of situation here, too. It can be very frustrating at times. LOL, with mine it was evident since toddlerhood/preschool. My little dude was always saying, "Do better next time, mommy, do better next time." And he did. My older son has never cared -- he is happy-go-lucky and doesn't want to do anything that is even marginally hard. He is super bright, but, ouch, what a waste of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 In fact, I was thinking this morning that I want to ask for advice how not to compare siblings, and how not let DS' schooling be influenced by the incredibly high bar DD has set .. I'd be interested in such a thread, too. It is hard not to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 My kids are not high achievers in general, but still, vastly different personalities and approaches. Meaning they drive me nuts in different ways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I was just telling my dh that I wish I could take half of my daughter's stress/motivation/dedication and divide that half between her two closest (in age) brothers, then I would have 3 mostly normal children! I stress and worry about all of them, just in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I grew up as the underachieving sibling of the perfectionist overachiever. In my case, I always felt like I was supposed to be like my sister--but it just wasn't in me, I wasn't born with a mind that was hyper focused on doing everything right. I was aware of and bothered by my failures, though people around me thought I just didn't care. At some point during my college years I came to the realization that I really wasn't a failure because I wasn't like my sister, that in fact I had strengths she didn't have, and that her perfectionism and drive had negative as well as positive aspects. I hope I can help my own children understand that each has unique strengths and abilities, and that their job is to find their individual path in life and not to worry about what someone else may be doing better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Same sort of situation here, too. It can be very frustrating at times. LOL, with mine it was evident since toddlerhood/preschool. My little dude was always saying, "Do better next time, mommy, do better next time." And he did. My older son has never cared -- he is happy-go-lucky and doesn't want to do anything that is even marginally hard. He is super bright, but, ouch, what a waste of talent. No, not a waste. Your son is exercising an exceptional talent for navigating life happily and without stress. Don't underestimate the value of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I see it in mine too. I do try to take each girl separately and work on their weaknesses and encourage their strengths, but it is very difficult sometimes. ETA: I edited this because I remembered that my girls read this board sometimes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJen Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I think you really have to work hard not to compare. Fortunately (or not, I couldn't really decide) my oldest is very bright, but not a perfectionist in any way and has a very laid back attitude toward achievement. I could not get him to buy into my perfectionist streak, so I learned things the hard way. Learning to value him as he is helped with valuing the others as they are. In my dh's family, the first two kids were very close in age, and the oldest (girl) was phenomenal in everything she did. The second (boy) struggled mightily in her shadow and I think it affected him very negatively and continues to do so thirty years later. So I also had a living object lesson to not compare my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Accepting differences is fine, but how do you still encourage excellence, responsibility, etc? In our case the older is the underachiever which (maybe) makes comparisons less painful. He has a role of leadership among his siblings in spite of academic minimalism. Im not worried about protecting self-esteem. Honestly, I'm weary of trying to uphold a standard higher than his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 See, I was both at once at that age. A hopelessly disorganized procrastinator AND a perfectionist who came down hard on myself for even small mistakes. Now in law school...well, I'm still a tad disorganized, but more disciplined, better at time management, content with a B, and more concerned with learning than grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Even close proximity didn't rub off either way. :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It's not the parenting. It's something internal. Do you think these traits are inherited? Ds is sooooo much like dh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 No, not a waste. Your son is exercising an exceptional talent for navigating life happily and without stress. Don't underestimate the value of that! Thank you for reminding me. My older son is 13, which is a frustrating age to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Accepting differences is fine, but how do you still encourage excellence, responsibility, etc? ... Honestly, I'm weary of trying to uphold a standard higher than his own. The only thing I've figured out is that they have to want it themselves to truly do well. The very, very, hard part is figuring out how to get them to want it. Youngest has it for subjects/things he cares about. He wants to learn more. He loves getting top scores on tests or being able to answer tough questions. He loves sharing his knowledge with others. Success has bred success. However, when he isn't top (not naturally talented enough to be top) - no matter if it's sports or academics or pretty much anything - then he doesn't want to "compete." He wants to win or "not care." I'll admit I really don't know how to get him to care for those other things. I do try. I remind him that ALL of us have to do some things we don't care for - at home or at any job. It's just a fact of life. I think he will do well in college because he cares quite a bit for his major and likes the school. I'm ok with him not getting straight As (I didn't). But I still wish he would learn a little to force himself to do things he doesn't care for in a more timely manner rather than putting it off until last minute and turning in a "less than best" effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Do you think these traits are inherited? Ds is sooooo much like dh. I absolutely think they are inherited. I just wish I could have selected the genes my guys received. (Gattaca anyone?) Youngest is actually the most like me (yes, I'll admit it), BUT, not when it comes to being satisfied with lower grades in some subjects. I graduated 2nd in my class (very good class). He definitely got some gene corruption from somewhere... he loves snakes. I detest them and hubby doesn't care for them either. Some genetic things I just can't fix... Middle is most like hubby, but with an extra boost of memory, both academic and otherwise, from somewhere. Oldest is a fairly even mix of both of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Thank you for reminding me. My older son is 13, which is a frustrating age to begin with. There is a good chance it will get better. 13 is a TOUGH age all around. All three of mine improved once they got past it. There's hope... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The only thing I've figured out is that they have to want it themselves to truly do well. The very, very, hard part is figuring out how to get them to want it. This is what I'm struggling with. My older son is actually interested in anything and everything, but just as he comes across it, if that makes sense. He doesn't want to work too hard to get information, or to process information. I'll admit I really don't know how to get him to care for those other things. I do try. I remind him that ALL of us have to do some things we don't care for - at home or at any job. It's just a fact of life. If you ever figure this out, please start a banner headline thread! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 We have a snow day today - and even his workplace phoned to say they are closed for the day. I've already mentioned that makes it a GREAT day to finish an English paper. "Pretend it's due tomorrow..." We'll see what happens. I KNOW if I hover he will purposely do a really bad job. BTDT (sigh) but... I just might have done the same with an assignment back when I was in first grade... maybe more than one assignment... :blushing: He's a senior though. Perhaps the Y chromosome has something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I grew up as the underachieving sibling of the perfectionist overachiever. In my case, I always felt like I was supposed to be like my sister--but it just wasn't in me, I wasn't born with a mind that was hyper focused on doing everything right. I was aware of and bothered by my failures, though people around me thought I just didn't care. At some point during my college years I came to the realization that I really wasn't a failure because I wasn't like my sister, that in fact I had strengths she didn't have, and that her perfectionism and drive had negative as well as positive aspects. I hope I can help my own children understand that each has unique strengths and abilities, and that their job is to find their individual path in life and not to worry about what someone else may be doing better. I could have written this. As an adult, my life has been spectacularly more successful than my sister's. I have long since become the good child, the one that takes care of things and doesn't need to be taken care of. Don't underestimate your laid back child's potential or try to make them into a Type A just because it looks better from the outside. My children are also very like the OPs. I work very hard at not comparing them, being proud of each for their own achievements, and emphasizing who they are not what they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredHSmom Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 My children are also very like the OPs. I work very hard at not comparing them, being proud of each for their own achievements, and emphasizing who they are not what they are not. Yep, I think this is the secret. This year I have worked really hard at not only congratulating my middle daughter on her fantastic achievements and grades. It is hard not to, I am awfully proud, especially as she was homeschooled all the way to college. But I have watched her really struggle with perfectionism and stress and decided to focus on who she is. Her stress has improved and my older daughter is feeling more loved too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 We have a snow day today - and even his workplace phoned to say they are closed for the day. I've already mentioned that makes it a GREAT day to finish an English paper. "Pretend it's due tomorrow..." We'll see what happens. I KNOW if I hover he will purposely do a really bad job. BTDT (sigh) but... I just might have done the same with an assignment back when I was in first grade... maybe more than one assignment... :blushing: He's a senior though. Perhaps the Y chromosome has something to do with it. Let us know how this works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 His workplace called and decided they would open at 4pm since the snow was quite cleared from the roads by then, so he did end up working. However, when I asked him about the paper he assures me it is done. Hopefully he will proofread it today and make any revisions, so he gets a grade that improves his overall average. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 His workplace called and decided they would open at 4pm since the snow was quite cleared from the roads by then, so he did end up working. However, when I asked him about the paper he assures me it is done. Hopefully he will proofread it today and make any revisions, so he gets a grade that improves his overall average. ;) Well, getting it done is the first step, at least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Well, getting it done is the first step, at least! True! He shouldn't lose points for turning it in late this time. He's lost many of his points on other things for that one reason... IMO, he's lucky this teacher takes things late - many profs in "real" college classes do not. (This is supposed to be a DE class, but obviously, he won't be accepting credit for this grade.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I only have one, but she is like your youngest. I personally am like the older one. Drives me batty... :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 I only have one, but she is like your youngest. I personally am like the older one. Drives me batty... :glare: If it helps... it's not you or your style of parenting. ;) I agree with how it makes me feel sometimes. It also makes me feel sorry for some of what I put my parents through, but after 7th grade, academics wasn't one of those. (In 7th grade I had a great GC who showed me my ticket "out" was via education - THEN I had internal motivation to do well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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