why oh why won't he just do his work?!

[desiraejb]

I have a 7yo doing 2nd grade work...or he's supposed to be doing it.  Every other day he will not do his work.  Math, handwriting, copywork, spelling list, you name it, he won't do it.  Here is a perfect example:  Today, I pull his MUS Beta workbook out and open it to 19C (like I have for a year).  I have helped him through the last two day's worksheets, so today I would expect he could do this page independently (I know he can do this type of problem on his own, it's nothing new).  Instead of setting to work, he first cries he can't do it, he doesn't want to do it; then he stares at the wall or anywhere for 15 minutes.  He will talk to his sister, try to sneak a magazine, or watch the room for 30 minutes or more.  I do not understand it at all.  When I do finally get him to work, he will only do it if I am sitting right there telling him the next step to do.  He will literally look up and talk to dd after writing each numeral!  At this point I feel like screaming!  Part of me says, 'he's 7, let him have a break.'  But I don't want him 'winning' the battle of when/if he does his work.

 

Earlier this year, he was doing the math pages more independently - it has just gotten bad in the last 2 months.

 

I am really, really thinking about public school for him.  It breaks my heart to think of one my kiddos being in the school system.  I know I can teach him here at home, I know it is better for him to be here with me and his siblings.  But I cannot get over the fact that he fights me every day to do his work!  It is frustrating me so much.

 

Is this a phase that you have seen with boys his age w/ no other factors at play?  Should I switch curriculum?  The fact that he does it across the board makes me think it's an attitude related issue, not curriculum, though.  I have explained to him that if he does not do his work here at home, his father and I have agreed he needs to go to public school.  But maybe he's too young for that to really sink in?

 

Another issue: even if I put him in public school, I know I'd be wanting to get him back home at some point.  So I feel like I'd be wasting a teacher/school's time by enrolling him.  So that's holding me back from taking him to a public school, also.

 

I guess I'm venting, but I could also use some advice from some moms who've btdt.

 

PS:  My sig is out of date, I'll work on it later.   :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

In my opinion, 7 year old children should have their teacher/mom sitting right next to them.  You don't have to tell him the steps but he needs you to be there.  

[Embassy]

I would think it would be unusual if a 7 year old did his work independently.  I'd sit next to him if possible and work toward him being able to do his work independently with you sitting right next to him first.  

[desiraejb]

OK, that is helpful.  I honestly don't have a clue what a 7yo-doing-his-work-normally is supposed to look like.  :)  What do you make of the refusing to do the work (verbally refusing, staring, or stalling) even when I'm sitting right next to him?   I feel like I've pulled out everything in my 'mom bag of tricks' for motivation/discipline.  Could it be that he's just formed this habit of refusal?  And how do you break bad habits like that? :)  I feel like I'm chasing my tail with all these questions!  lol

[Arcadia]

Your child could be feeling "high" from thanksgiving and christmas preparations and festivities. My kids years past has gotten distracted once the Christmas tree was put up.

Is it possible to send your daughter to play with your youngest while you sit with your son for his school work? My older works much better when he is not near to my younger.

[Tracy]

It is hard to say without knowing what you have already done.  A lot of people have trouble implementing behavior modification techniques, because they don't understand how they work.  It is common for parents to provide a motivation but not provide frequent enough feedback.  (They may offer a reward after a week's time when the child needs a much smaller reward every few minutes.)  It is also common for parents to get too emotional, thus counteracting what they are trying to accomplish.

 

My dd8 is pretty distractible (though bright), and I find it really, really frustrating sometimes.  But what works the best is when I am calm and provide nearly constant feedback.  My favorite technique to use with her is to give her a handful of mini-chocolate chips.  They are hers, but when she does something or says something not related to the work, I get to eat one.  She gets whatever is left after the lesson.  At first, I thought this idea was kind of mean.  But I was desperate, so I tried it.  As it turns out, it works wonderfully because she gets immediate feedback without any emotion from me.  The "punishment" is noticeable yet not terribly consequential.  And she sees it as a challenge to try to beat mom and get all the chips.  Previously, I had tried stickers and other rewards, but they just didn't work for her.  

 

 

[alisoncooks]

Oh my!  You have totally described my 7 yr old/2nd grader.  SERIOUSLY, this exactly:

Instead of setting to work, he first cries he can't do it, he doesn't want to do it; then he stares at the wall or anywhere for 15 minutes.  He will talk to his sister, try to sneak a magazine, or watch the room for 30 minutes or more.  I do not understand it at all.  When I do finally get him to work, he will only do it if I am sitting right there telling him the next step to do.  He will literally look up and talk to dd after writing each numeral!  At this point I feel like screaming!  Part of me says, 'he's 7, let him have a break.'  But I don't want him 'winning' the battle of when/if he does his work.

 

My DD stalls and kills HUGE amounts of time, even when (mostly when) I am RIGHT THERE prompting her along.  And I think there's nothing wrong with expecting a child this age to do a small set of problems independently in a certain amount of time (assuming it has been practiced, explained, within their ability level).

 

If I find myself getting annoyed with her, I say something like:  I want these 5 problems done by the time I get back in the room.  And I leave.  Most of the time, the problems are done when I get back... And I'm not sitting there seething, LOL.  Win-win.

[alisoncooks]

Oops.  Double post.

[Alte Veste Academy]

DS10 did this at the same age. In his case, he was bored because it was too easy, which made it "too hard" (as in too hard to focus on something so boring, LOL). So first of all, I would make sure that the work is at the right level and that there is not too much repetition past the point that he already had it down cold.

 

After making sure the work is at the right level...

 

Yes, sit next to him.

 

Be matter of fact. This is the work that he is doing today. He does nothing else until finished.

 

Be serene like a monk and cheerful (but not obnoxiously so :tongue_smilie:).

 

Be prepared for him to dig his heels in and for it to get worse before it gets better.

 

Stay serene like a monk when it gets worse before it gets better. :lol:

 

Nothing has worked better for all three of my kids than consistently insisting on expectations and refusing to engage in bickering or circular, pointless discussions. We did talk about their likes, dislikes, preferences, needs, etc., but after school hours, not when someone was simply trying to get out of work.

 

I will also say that my oldest does best with buddy math, when I sit with him and we attack problems together. A little of that goes a long way and it seems to give him a better attitude during the times when he is on his own for more mundane work. And all of my kids have benefitted from mixing our regularly scheduled programming with supplements and games.

[ErinE]

I had to sit with both kids for all subjects when they were 7. Once math gets started, I can do chores nearby (within sight), but I have to be very close and making sure the work gets done.

[Bree]

I have days like that with my 8 year old too. Most our problems were due to his fatiguing when he wrote and later I found out he needed glasses. For us things go easier when we do more orally. He can write more this year but about 2 sentences is all I could get out of him last year without a meltdown. We do have occasional math issues but I start taking away privliges like game time and he usually responds well if it is just behavior related. So it could be an attitude issue, but there may be something underlying the cause of the behavior too.

[T'smom]

Sounds exactly like my 6 year old boy. I have tried soooo many things and lots of things will work for a week or two and then he just doesn't care anymore. I have seen so many people post that they don't force schoolwork on kids this little, they only do it while the kid is having fun or whatever, but if I did that we would NEVER do ANYTHING. The last thing I tried was having a chart that listed the things we have to do (reading, math, handwriting, etc.) and the things that we can do if we get the other stuff done and mom still has energy, like art and science. I'd give him a sticker for the chart and then let him pick from the extra stuff if there was time. There are days though, where I just sit him in time out until he's ready to do his work. He's kindof like this about everything though. He'll do whatever he can to get out of everything from picking up his dirty clothes to brushing his teeth. If he was cooperative about things other than schoolwork, I might blame the schoolwork and think that something needed to be changed. But he's not.

[Mom22ns]

OK, that is helpful.  I honestly don't have a clue what a 7yo-doing-his-work-normally is supposed to look like.   :)  What do you make of the refusing to do the work (verbally refusing, staring, or stalling) even when I'm sitting right next to him?   I feel like I've pulled out everything in my 'mom bag of tricks' for motivation/discipline.  Could it be that he's just formed this habit of refusal?  And how do you break bad habits like that? :)  I feel like I'm chasing my tail with all these questions!  lol

 

I would take one problem at a time. Write it on a white board for him. Ask him what to do first? What next? Is he done? When he is tell him great job and do the next one.

 

MUS is great for not being overwhelming with too many problems on a page, but never-the-less, when he looks at that page, he is feeling overwhelmed. Take the blank page away and make it a single problem, a single sentence, a single whatever. Once he has done a few, see if you can give him the page. 

 

For my ds who had problems like that, I would fold pages, so he never saw more than one row of problems or a few sentences or whatever at a time. It gave a smaller less overwhelming task.

[Chris in VA]

Are you "right there" as in sitting down, pointing to each problem, reading it out loud to him or saying something like, "Ok, Problem 2. Read this to me"?

 

Or are you just at the table, or even just standing in the same room, doing something else like folding clothes or playing with another child?

 

Right beside, reading the problems together, asking questions, waiting while he writes it down, etc--this is what I mean when I say a parent (MOST of the time) needs to be "with" the child while homeschooling. Very gradually, you can get to the point of saying, "Ok, good. Now work the next one." 

Still right there beside. Still giving feedback. Still not doing anything else.

 

This is for some kids, not all. It seems inefficient, but really it's MUCH more efficient than trying to do something else while the kid stares into space or twiddles around, or cries, or complains, or pouts. 

 

Honestly, and not trying to be judgy (but I probably am--I'm working on it) I don't get moms who let their kids procrastinate all.day.long in an effort to encourage independent work. Even public school teachers don't do that. 

[Doodlebug]

I have a seven year old boy, and yup... That sounds par for our day!

 

Was your son doing some work independently prior to this? That's my situation. My son started the school year strong, was doing his Saxon Math worksheets independtly (asked for help), but around weeks 10-12, the limp noodle fatigue hit. E-v-e-r-y subject was met with whine, and my early school year behavior focused correction was met with tears. That got my attention, because crying with this one is the exception.

 

I truly believe this is a fatigue issue. Here's why... All of our school work starts out light on writing and review focused those first 8 weeks. This is heaven for my kid. But when we start adding a little more writing, and a few new math concepts, and a few new phonograms, the cumulative impact is mind numbing. Being the work-horse-with-blinders-on momma that I default to, I tend to follow the curriculum too closely. This resulted in what started as a 2 hour school day for formal subjects being a 4 hour school day by week 10 of school, and that's too much.

 

I began writing math for my son about three weeks ago. It has improved things greatly. Math is back to being 40-50 minutes, and the pleasant upside to that is that My kid still has mental juices to do the subjects that come after. I still get whine, but it's of the good ole Tom Sawyer/ boys and school variety...

 

I am sitting with my son for all of our formal schoolwork (math, writing, spelling/ grammar) except for copy work. It's just necessary, so I'm trying to accept it and embrace the time limit. :)

 

Peace,

Stella

[Shellydon]

I have a 7 year old and and schooled my two older children as well.  At 7, I sit right next to my child for all of school.  If I get refusal, they lose activities.  You refuse math, you lose Girl Scouts that afternoon.  You refuse spelling, you lose gymnastics.   In order to do the fun things, you must first do school.

[boscopup]

My 7 year old requires constant interaction with me to do the work. I continually point to the next problem, ask him questions, keep him engaged. If I don't, he's off into the weeds mentally.

 

My oldest was not as bad at 7, but he did require me to be right there also. For both, I have had to bump up appropriate subjects to keep them challenged.

 

My 4th grader still needs me to sit on him for spelling (boring, but he needs it). He can do some subjects on his own now, particularly the ones that interest him (eg, he did his Latin vocab cards today with no prompting from me - he loves Latin). I still teach, of course, but I can send him off to do some independent work. It will be a while before I can do that with my 7yo... possibly a long while. :tongue_smilie:

[GoVanGogh]

If you have not listened to SWB about children working independently, you might be interested in it. She walks you through the stages of mom at elbow, mom able to flutter around room but still needed nearby and on to independent work. At seven, your son is very much still at the "mom at elbow" stage.

I think my son was better at five and six than at seven. Or nine. Seven and nine were the worse. I think school was still fun and new at five and six for my son.

I don't know if this has been touched on, but just like adults just don't feel like going to work somedays or don't give it their all - children may be able to work more independently one day then not so much the next. They often forget or regress in one area when making a developmental leap in another area. Somedays just have to be more "mom at elbow" than others.

[redsquirrel]

It is normal and it is a process. But, I know it is crazy making when you know, you KNOW he can do it without your having to be there every second.  Second and third grade are tough, but it slowly gets better over third and by fourth grade you might even start to notice a change.

 

FWIW, my older boy (who was exactly the same) is now 13 and does his work in his room under his own steam. I hardly see him except to hand him assignments. We do a few things together every day, but he is very independent. I never, ever would have thought that would happen when he was 7.

 

bad thing: it might get worse before it gets better. This is the second time I have taught third grade and I swear it is going to be the death of me for just this reason. I think "If you would stop complaining about it you would be done by now" should be tattooed on my forehead.

 

eta: I have done the chocolate chip thing. I have also made a hard and fast rule: no stopping to talk when doing a math problem or writing a word/sentence.  You can tell me anything you like about orcs or Doctor Who between problems or at the end of the sentence and I promise I will listen, but do. not. stop. in. the. middle.

 

I am convinced it is detrimental to their education for them to stop mid addition problem or mid word to go off on a tangent. I know, it is silly, but I think they need to keep focus at least that long. They lose track of the process. So, I am really strict about that, but the payoff is that I really will listen to whatever stupid thing when he is done. Every now and then I get lucky and he forgets he was going to tell me something and moves on. I treasure those moments.

[sassenach]

You might want to read up on Charlotte Mason's approach to early education.  Some of her ideas I think would be very helpful here.  Short lessons, insisting on full attention (which I found a child is much more willing to do when he knows that there's an end to the lesson), and full teacher involvement.  You have a lot of years ahead of you before you should have any expectation of leaving him to work on his own. 

 

It also helps my attitude if I remember that even the things that they've done enough times to do on their own, are truly new to their worlds. It's easy to forget, but just because a child has done something correctly even 100 times, doesn't mean that they have mastered it, or that they should be expected to remember all the steps or how this skill is connected to that skill.  It's all new to them, and it does me and them both good to not lose sight of that.

 

 

Lastly, and I say this gently, but also seriously, if this is enough for you to give up on homeschooling, I think you need to seriously evaluate what your expectations are here.  This IS homeschooling.  Character training IS homeschooling.  Reteaching IS homeschooling.  Devoting your full time and attention to sitting with a child IS homeschooling.  This is not a description of homeschooling gone wrong.  This is what homeschooling is.  Having that "send him to school" thing hanging out there is a little like keeping divorce on the table every time you and your dh get into an argument.  It steals your willingness to do everything it takes to make it work.  I say this as someone who sent her oldest off to school (in 8th grade) with zero regrets.  I'm not anti-school, but I am anti- school as a reactionary response.  This is a heart issue that belongs solely in your corner.  It will make or break your homeschool life, so I suggest that you take some time over winter break to really sort it out.  Imagine me hugging you while I say this, because I have truly been there and I know how it feels to be in your shoes.

 

[fairfarmhand]

I put a skittle, m and m or chocolate chip on each problem. They could eat the treat when they had the correct answer.

 

Also, working on dry erase boards is more fun for my kids. Why? I don't know, but it is!

[desiraejb]

Thank you, thank you everyone for your responses. This is such a help. I don't know why I waited so long to post this issue here. I have focused more on being at his side (w/o any distractions) and it has helped. Also, we finally (!) jumped to the next lesson/new skill and he is much better about doing his work. I also stopped letting him go on and on with it...after a set time, we put it up and move on. He had that happen once and finished the page later after everything else was finished (without being prodded). The main thing, I needed to realize, is that I need to focus more on sitting with him; he needed that and I was too caught up in bossing him.

 

And Sassenach, thank you for your pep talk. You're right...I do need to reign in the 'public school' threats. I don't even want that for our family...I need to remove that option from the table, really. I just....don't even have the words...but you are so right. :)

[ItoLina]

My 6yeR old ds won't do anything if I am not I the same room reminding him every 3 seconds of what he is supposed to be doing :-)

 

I think it's pretty normal.

[amazzie]

When my son was younger and having issues with getting work done, he always felt bolstered and encouraged if I would scribe for him. So, for example, I would read 6+4 and he would say 10, and I would write it down. As he got older he would read the problem himself but I would still write for him. He is 10 now and I think he asked me to scribe for him once this year.

 

Even though he has become less "pencil allergic," he still dawdles sometimes. I will set the timer or have him stop and do something else when I notice too much procrastination. I also sometimes offer the chance to do something he wants to do when he finishes, but often that does not motivate him at all. Having the timer set or having Mom sitting right there being mentally and verbally engaged seem to offer the most motivation.