How much to problems in Sr. year affect college acceptance

[dirty ethel rackham]

Please don't quote as this is some sensitive info and I may delete it later.  I just don't know where to turn.

 

My son is almost finished with his college applications - most were in before early action deadlines.  He has recently started treatment for depression, social anxiety and some other issues.  I didn't realize until today how much it has affected his school work.  He is acing in his college Calc and Physics classes.  However, he is struggling in his online classes, not getting things done (and telling me he is "doing fine.")  Berating him will not help - he has simply shut down and won't talk to me.  He does open up to my husband and to his counselor.  We are also getting some psychological testing done.  So, I have emailed the teachers involved asking them for grace and patience as we are implementing an accountability plan - I plan with him and he has daily meetings with my husband to go over what he has accomplished.  He is afraid I will freak out when he doesn't get things done, so he doesn't want report to me (and I know he won't be honest with me.) 

 

So, I am worried about the mid-year grades in these classes.  I know I have to do the mid-year report.  I'll have his college grades in early December, but won't have these grades until January.  I am worried about how this will affect his college acceptances.  I do think he will do well in a college environment - especially if we can get the underlying issues addressed that are leading to him feeling overwhelmed and depressed, that is if we can get him through these online classes.  Anyone have any advice here?

 

Also, if you are the praying kind, please keep my son in your prayers.  He is suffering. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Could he possibly drop the online classes?   Maybe he could take one or two of them as a lecture class, instead of online, next semester.  I'd find out what their policy is on being able to retake a class and whether that erases the old grade or not.   From what I've read on College Confidential, most colleges give seniors quite a bit of leeway, but not all.  I would think that the reason for his having difficulties would matter as it's not the usual senior slacking.

 

I'm praying for all of you.  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Barbara H]

I'm sorry he is struggling. While it is very difficult this has hit during senior year, it is a positive thing that it is happening now instead of freshman year when he is not at home. It is good you are taking it seriously and providing him lots of support and access to counseling and testing. As you know this is not an uncommon age to start having problems these sorts of problems and the most important thing is to address it directly.

 

It is always hard to answer questions like this without having all of the particulars (his record, the sorts of schools, etc.) but I will offer a general answer. If he is likely to pull a very low grade - low C, D or failing, particularly if it is in more than once class, I would consider the possibility of withdraw from one class if he doesn't need the course for graduation. That is something that can be presented at midyear with a brief explanation. If he sticks with classes and pulls much lower grades, again I would consider giving colleges a brief explanation with the mid year report. Better they know there is a specific problem that is being dealt with than to just think he's got senioritis.

 

[Starr]

There's an idea. Drop the online and homeschool the non college courses. This must be very difficult.  :grouphug: I would be sure he's up to the stress of college before I sent him. There are so many options for schooling and the timing of schooling. I'll be praying for your family.

[Laura in CA]

Praying for your son & your whole family.

 

~ Laura

[readwithem]

Hugs to all of you!!

I think the main thing to focus on is getting him healthy.  It sounds like he is on the right track toward that.

 

I like the idea of dropping the online classes and doing his coursework at home.  My dd continued doing coursework during the summer before she started college, and that was without the health issues you're facing.

 

Another option would be for him to continue with his applications, accept at a school, and take a gap year -  most schools will defer scholarships with the enrollment deferral.  

 

And I'll pray for all of you to have wisdom, grace and peace.

[creekland]

:grouphug:

 

How much a college will care will depend upon the college.  I've seen colleges give a bit of leeway and I've seen them rescind admissions (esp for failing grades).  However, in your case, there will be a legitimate reason (vs senioritis), so with an explanation and a "fix" to the problem, my leaning is that you'd be fine.  Without a comfortable fix, I'd lean toward a gap year.  Freshmen year can be very stressful for some.

 

The most important thing is to take care of health - not what year college starts.

[Gwen in VA]

Praying for your son (and your whole family)!

[8filltheheart]

Are the online classes through places like Potter's School or Derek Owens, etc?   If so, I would recommend simply pulling him out and finding resources for him to finish the coursework at home.   I would come up with your own method for evaluating progress and move on from there.  

 

FWIW, my dd cannot function via online classes.   It is not that she is not diligent or a poor student.   She simply needs a teacher IRL to thrive.   She needs direct interaction.   I would not see these classes as an indication that he is not ready for higher ed or that he is somehow failing.   It may be as simple as how he learns.   If he is seeing these classes as a an indication of preparedness for college, you need to assure him that is not necessarily true.   That fear might be feeding his depression.   My dd can manage OK with hybrid classes (1/2 in person and 1/2 online) but purely online are incredibly stressful for her.

[MysteryJen]

Prayers and  :grouphug:  

I would second the advice on the online classes. That class format is not for everyone. My son did a trial run with one last year and hated it. 

[Brenda in MA]

I would agree with 8 that you should think about whether the all on-line format is working for your son. I'd consider dropping the AP history and just doing it at home. Or use the online course's syllabus as a guide and modify it to make it work for your son. You can issue your own grade for the course and decide in the spring if there would be any benefit to him taking the AP exam. The same probably goes for Latin unless the AP exam there would exempt him out of foreign language later. If that's the case, you might remind him of this benefit and see if it helps him to summon his reserves to deal with the course.

 

One other thing -- you may have seen the other person's post about their college child's exhaustion. Your son might be facing this as well. My hs senior has also been really tired lately, and I think it's just that he needs a break. Fortunately, his 7:15am CC chem class twice a week only has two weeks left after Thanksgiving. He's a small bit behind in some of his other courses, but he'll have a couple weeks in both December and January without the CC class where he can rest and catch up. Maybe once your son's college classes are done for the semester, he'll be able to rest a bit more and have a better outlook.

 

I will also throw out one more thing. It could be that his difficulties are just due to stress related to the upcoming changes in his life. If he happens to be a homebody and/or very close to siblings, friends, etc., he might just be stressing inside because he fears what the future will bring. I've seen this general anxiety in my kids in their senior year. What you might tell him is that he should make the best effort he can to finish his current courses and see his college applications through, and you know he is stressed, so you and your husband would support him if he wanted to take a gap year. If he can't finish the courses this year, he'll have to go through all of them again, which he probably won't want to do. You could give him that "way out" of a possible gap year but suggest to him that making the final decision on that should wait until the spring so you both can see how he feels.

 

You mention having issues with communication. Can you and dh take him out to a restaurant for dinner and the three of you discuss some of the options in a calm manner. You might have to sit down with dh before hand and help him understand the options so he can take a more front-line role in presenting them. Also, just tell the kid how much you both love him and want to help him through. I'm guessing that he's probably a really good kid that is going through a tough time, so some affirmation might help.

 

Best wishes to all of you, and you will be in my prayers,

Brenda

[Running the race]

I have a college senior also. He's been accepted to four colleges so far, but I'm not sure he will be ready to go. Praying for wisdom and healing.

[Nan in Mass]

Hugs and prayers.My youngest had a bad senior year - flu and stress and full-time community college and an online class. He isn't going to do anymore online classes lol. He dropped the online one and struggled through the rest as best he could when he got his feet back under him. He learned some really important college-management lessons in the process. He didn't really cheer back up until about two weeks before he was due to be dropped off for his freshman year, at which point he suddenly relaxed and decided a) that he really was going and b ) that he really wanted to go. He is very happy now. : )Senior year can contain a TON of stress for some students. Homeschooling students can be especially thrown by the application process and the idea of leaving home and family. I'm surprised more seniors don't shut down under the stress. And online classes are definately an only-for-some-people thing.More hugs and more prayers,Nan

[Miss Marple]

No advice but prayers and  :grouphug:

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thanks so much for the prayers, kind words and advice.  Ds had excelled in his online classes before, so this situation took me by surprise.  He had almost always been on schedule with very little supervision (his choice - he HATES me hovering.)  There are some underlying mental health issues that he had been hiding that emerged.  While things are very difficult for us now, I am thankful that this is happening while he is still at home and that we can help him.  I don't think his anxiety is so much about leaving us (he actually can't wait to be out in the college environment.)  I think it was more about some underlying issues combined with the pressure of getting the applications in, making time for visits, and struggling in his online classes.

 

After looking over ds's grades and assignments in his online classes, he has decided that he can continue with AP World History - he was only one assignment behind and is getting a low B right now.  I explained things to his teacher and she is willing to work with us, lightening his load a little for the time being.  He is willing to have me help him plan his workload with smaller, measurable tasks, and be accountable to his dad.  He has to show his dad what he has completed on his daily checklist.  Checking with me isn't working because he has been lying to me because he is "afraid of my reaction" (I don't explode or anything even though I may feel like it.  I am much more even tempered than my parents were.) 

 

However, it looks like we will drop AP Latin.  He is failing -- badly.  He hasn't ever gotten even a C before.  I have looked into options for getting him into a live Latin class, but haven't found anything that will work.  Our local high school doesn't offer it.  Neither do the community colleges around here.  The local LAC offers a Classics major and has Latin classes.  However, the only Latin class offered the winter term is the one after the one you could place into by getting a good score on AP Latin.  So, he wouldn't have the pre-req and I don't want to risk putting him into a class that is out of his league and have him get overwhelmed again.  I really can't homeschool him in Latin.  I minored in Spanish, but none of my kids wanted to take it.  IMO, AP Latin needs a good teacher.  I don't know how someone self-studies for that unless they have studied for a very long time. 

 

So, I will have to send a mid-year report to the colleges and tell them that we dropped AP Latin.  Although he started Latin in 8th grade and this is his 5th year, I did not put his 8th grade class on his transcript.  Now, I am regretting it.  Any advice here?  I do plan to call one of the AdComs that we have gotten to know well (my son goes to that college) and ask her for her opinion.  Although he hasn't been officially accepted at this school, I know that she wants him because she has called him a few times to make sure he was getting his application in and to see if he was planning on attending another Scholars' Day (He isn't - he has been there for two official campus visits and has visited his brother there several times.) 

 

Please continue to keep DS in your prayers.  Although he is upbeat today, I know things can change in a heartbeat.  Also, can you pray for healing in our relationship? 

 

[swimmermom3]

Ellen, it may not feel like it, but you are doing a great job given the situation. :grouphug:  Helping a teen work through depression and anxiety, especially while applying for colleges at the same time will be a step-by-step process. You and your dh will probably find that you tag-team different aspects of managing the situation and that's okay. My dh handled the to-do list with our daughter, because he had less idea of what it meant if individual work or classes didn't get done. He brought far less emotion and more objectivity to the table than I did and our daughter, like your son, was more forthright with her father.

 

You have been given great advice and the only thing I would add is to hold lightly to your existing plans for college. Move forward, but do so with caution and keep a constant eye to where your son's head and heart are at. Healing has to be at the top of the priority list. Be ready to change directions if need be.

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

I would get a note from his doctor advising a medical leave of absence from fall semester classes. With that, he should be able to get an "Incomplete" for now and finish the classes later when he is feeling better. One of my brother's friends had to do that in high school when he was getting treatment for mental health issues. He did wind up graduating a semester late but it didn't affect his college acceptances any.

[Barbara H]

I do not believe lack of AP Latin is ever going to be the make it or break it thing for anyone. And, for what it is worth, I have seen more than one student bomb with AP Latin after doing really well up that point with Latin. It is a big transition - same goes in college with the transition from 200 to 300 level Latin. While we certainly do not want kids to drop things without a reason, I also believe it is a very healthy thing to learn that sometimes we have to let something go and shift priorities.

 

 

[Muttichen]

You could drop the AP Latin course but have him continue with some low-key translation work (e.g. Caesar's Gallic Wars, sections of the Aeneid).  That way you could still count it as a fourth year of Latin on his transcript. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thanks so much to all of you for your support and wisdom. 

 

Ellen, it may not feel like it, but you are doing a great job given the situation. :grouphug:  Helping a teen work through depression and anxiety, especially while applying for colleges at the same time will be a step-by-step process. You and your dh will probably find that you tag-team different aspects of managing the situation and that's okay. My dh handled the to-do list with our daughter, because he had less idea of what it meant if individual work or classes didn't get done. He brought far less emotion and more objectivity to the table than I did and our daughter, like your son, was more forthright with her father.

 

You have been given great advice and the only thing I would add is to hold lightly to your existing plans for college. Move forward, but do so with caution and keep a constant eye to where your son's head and heart are at. Healing has to be at the top of the priority list. Be ready to change directions if need be.

 

Thanks so much for your support.  Re: the bolded - that is exactly how things are working here.  Dh is much less emotional about the school assignments because he is not the one looking at the big picture as far as the school plan is concerned.  Also, despite the fact that I try very hard to not overreact, ds seems to be very sensitive to my emotions, much more than I suspected. 

 

 As far as the college plans are concerned, we are keeping a gap year in the back of our heads.  Ds is almost done with his applications.  He has 6 completed and submitted.  He has 2 more plus the safety of the local LAC that he attends now.  One should be done this weekend - he just has the supplemental writing piece - a paragraph about why that school would be a good fit for both of them.  Another one has some quirky questions for their supplement.  The last one (local safety) is not a Common App school.  We talked about future plans and said that we will forge ahead as if he were going away next fall, with the out of deferring enrollment and taking a gap year if necessary.  That has helped take the pressure off for all of us.  By safety, we mean economic or life circumstance. We are confident that he will get in to most of his schools and will probably get a decent enough merit aid package to make several of them doable for us.  The local school would be a safety for the unlikely event of a financial disaster for us. 

 

I do not believe lack of AP Latin is ever going to be the make it or break it thing for anyone. And, for what it is worth, I have seen more than one student bomb with AP Latin after doing really well up that point with Latin. It is a big transition - same goes in college with the transition from 200 to 300 level Latin. While we certainly do not want kids to drop things without a reason, I also believe it is a very healthy thing to learn that sometimes we have to let something go and shift priorities.

 

Thanks for the reassurance.  When I broached the subject of dropping Latin, he seemed visibly relieved.  Catching up in that class just seems too far out of reach.

[creekland]

 

Please continue to keep DS in your prayers.  Although he is upbeat today, I know things can change in a heartbeat.  Also, can you pray for healing in our relationship? 

FWIW, I'm convinced that parenting is the most difficult job one can have.  Sure, sometimes decisions are easy and all is going fine, but then there are those other times... with tons of thoughts... no clear cut solutions... and we have to make our "best guess" always wondering if we guessed right or wrong.

 

We move on knowing we can never be perfect and always hoping for the best and trying our best - then also hoping that, at some point, our kids will realize we always wanted what was best for them even if we guessed wrong at times.

 

I think you're doing a great job and I hope healing comes all around.  :grouphug:

[8filltheheart]

Would you be comfortable with giving him credit for Latin if he simply continued forward with Latin readings and completing projects like found on this?  Just offering an option that would allow him to continue w/o the same level of stress or pace.

http://www.sjsd.k12.mo.us/cms/lib3/MO01001773/Centricity/Domain/714/IV-IB%20Latin%20Syllabus%202011-12.pdf

 

FWIW, I am soooooo with Creekland.  Parenthood is hard. Parenting adults can be incredibly stressful b/c their problems are normally far bigger and more life-altering.   (((((hugs)))) as you seek answers for your ds.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry your son and your family are going through this.  :grouphug:  I am glad he is home and that you can help him work through this.

 

You've already gotten good advice from people who know much more about college admissions than I do!  I'll just add that my younger two were in high school when my husband had a stroke and our lives turned completely upsidedown for about three years.  The transcripts for these two look strange:  two years of lots of great higher-level classes and extra curricular activities, and then just barely getting by after that.   They both ended up doing pretty poorly on SAT scores, which we barely squeezed in the week after they graduated from high school. 

 

The older of these two took a gap year, and in fact has still not decided if college is right for her, but my youngest has now graduated from high school and applied at colleges.  I actually sent a letter to each school she applied at explaining our family's circumstances during these last few years.  I don't know if that helped, but she has been accepted into all five colleges she applied at and has gotten very good scholarships to two of them.  It really, really, surprised me.  I was thinking she perhaps wouldn't be accepted into any college at all.  So, just an encouragement for you to perhaps explain (your son doesn't have to know) his situation, and perhaps they will take that into consideration.

[TechWife]

 

So, I will have to send a mid-year report to the colleges and tell them that we dropped AP Latin.  Although he started Latin in 8th grade and this is his 5th year, I did not put his 8th grade class on his transcript.  Now, I am regretting it.  Any advice here?  I do plan to call one of the AdComs that we have gotten to know well (my son goes to that college) and ask her for her opinion.  Although he hasn't been officially accepted at this school, I know that she wants him because she has called him a few times to make sure he was getting his application in and to see if he was planning on attending another Scholars' Day (He isn't - he has been there for two official campus visits and has visited his brother there several times.) 

 

 

Where is he taking AP Latin? Amy Barr of the Lukeion Project is a very gracious woman. You might want to contact her and ask if she has any ideas about him self-studying for the AP Latin exam. She and her husband both are known as strong teachers, but they are not easy teachers. Perhaps she will be able to help. 

[TechWife]

 I do plan to call one of the AdComs that we have gotten to know well (my son goes to that college) and ask her for her opinion.  Although he hasn't been officially accepted at this school, I know that she wants him because she has called him a few times to make sure he was getting his application in and to see if he was planning on attending another Scholars' Day (He isn't - he has been there for two official campus visits and has visited his brother there several times.) 

 

Scholars' Day sounds like it might be a scholarship interview weekend, which is very different than a regular college visit. If that's the case, he may want to reconsider attending. I don't want to add pressure, but I don't want him to miss opportunities, either. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Where is he taking AP Latin? Amy Barr of the Lukeion Project is a very gracious woman. You might want to contact her and ask if she has any ideas about him self-studying for the AP Latin exam. She and her husband both are known as strong teachers, but they are not easy teachers. Perhaps she will be able to help. 

His current teacher is really a lovely woman.  But, I think it is the content and workload that is stressing him out.  He knows that there is no way he can self-study for this.  He needs a competent teacher.  I think we just need to accept the fact that he will drop this class and maybe pick up another foreign language class at the college. 

 

 

Scholars' Day sounds like it might be a scholarship interview weekend, which is very different than a regular college visit. If that's the case, he may want to reconsider attending. I don't want to add pressure, but I don't want him to miss opportunities, either. 

Thanks for your concern.  My oldest attended this.  It is not a scholarship interview day.  My son has visited this school a twice for official visits (including interviews) and his brother goes there.  The schedule is basically the schedule of any other visit day.  We looked it over and didn't see anything in there that he hadn't already seen.

[Teachin'Mine]

Just a thought, but couldn't he continue with the Latin class and just call it Latin IV on your transcript and give him a grade yourself?   If it's not the content that he minds, but just the stress of the difficulty of pulling off an A, then this might work.   If he's not only really struggling but way behind, then dropping the class would likely be better.   IOW maybe he could just audit the Latin class.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

Just a thought, but couldn't he continue with the Latin class and just call it Latin IV on your transcript and give him a grade yourself?   If it's not the content that he minds, but just the stress of the difficulty of pulling off an A, then this might work.   If he's not only really struggling but way behind, then dropping the class would likely be better.   IOW maybe he could just audit the Latin class.  

 

It's the stress of having a less than 50% average in the class and how much he would have to make up in order to even pull that up to a C. 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Then dropping it will probably bring him huge relief.  

 

As an aside, I know that everyone says that the Junior year is the worst, but we've found that the senior year is much more stressful with all that's required in addition to course work - testing, applications, researching colleges and visits, scholarships, etc..   I think that May 1st will bring a collective sigh of relief to this forum. 

 

Edited to add:  BTW I don't see anything wrong with amending his transcript to include the Latin he did in 8th grade.  If anyone asks, which I doubt, you can explain that you left it off since you assumed he'd have four years in high school, in addition to what he did in 8th, but that with dropping Latin for his senior year, you wanted to show that he had already completed four years.  Might be something to include in your counselor letter.