Who is more responsible employee or employer? (Pay related)

[Kathryn]

I agree that it's not a question of fault, but of responsibility. There was a signed contract and the moment the employee realized that overpayment was a *possibility,* should have spoken up. Not doing so was dishonest. To allow it to continue for months is beyond my understanding.

 

This happened to me when I was a poor college student working for my university. Somehow, I got paid double for a few pay checks in a row. And every single time, I took the time (and it was an investment in time) to go to payroll and get it fixed.

[LMA]

_{Related to the payback, you need to see how this will affect your income taxes. Until it is paid back, it is considered income. What happens to your taxes after you pay it back?}

[Miss Mousie]

I agree with the others who say that the employee needs to repay the money as soon as possible, and that the employee should have addressed the situation immediately upon noticing the discrepancy. 

 

As far as "responsibility" goes - I guess I'd say both sides made mistakes, but because the employee was the first to notice and remained silent, the employee bears the heavier weight.  The employer's mistake was oversight, not a breach of ethics.

 

I do hope the repayment schedule is not too much of a hardship, and I hope you are able to repay at a faster rate than required just to be done with it.

 

I'd also like to acknowledge your courage in posting.  You must have known you'd get some responses you didn't want to hear.  I can understand why the situation is a tough pill to swallow. 

 

 

[Miss Mousie]

Ya know, I don't think I ever signed a contract for any job I ever had.

 

Is this common?

 

I never have, either, but none of my jobs ranked above "Underling."

[Catwoman]

Logically, I agree. Emotionally, well...I don't know.

This is how feel too. Like, who was writing these checks and approving them. And this employee wasn't the only one within the company to be overpaid.

But I also realize that this money was not earned. Ugh.

I'm sorry, but you can't justify doing the wrong thing by rationalizing that other people were getting away with the same level of dishonesty. The employers made an honest mistake when they overpaid the employees; the employees were pulling a fast one by not notifying the employers of the error.

 

If he suspected that his employers had been intentionally underpaying him, I'm pretty confident that he would have immediately checked his contract and demanded that he be paid the agreed-upon amount. Why should it have been any different when he suspected that he was being overpaid?

[Catwoman]

I never have, either, but none of my jobs ranked above "Underling."

Some day, with hard work, dedication, and a little luck, you might have advanced to "minion." ;)

 

Don't quote me on this, but I believe minions are contract employees.

[Trish]

Is this really a question?

[Catwoman]

Is this really a question?

Apparently.

 

I'm not sure what she was hoping we would say. Did she think someone would suggest that her dh should be allowed to keep the money? :confused:

[kitten18]

I think the OP has been VERY gracious in her replies.

[Ripley]

My impression is that yes, it's (an honest) question.

 

Like the OP, I often wonder if I've misunderstood the details.  I also am scatter-brained, so if I don't deal with something right at that moment, it gets shoved to the side (and sometimes forgotten about). Different personalities and all of that. Seems like it was an honest enough mistake on her husband's part, not some nefarious plot to deceive, embezzle, and get online permission to keep the funds.

 

Mercy.

 

 

[Catwoman]

My impression is that yes, it's (an honest) question.

 

Like the OP, I often wonder if I've misunderstood the details. I also am scatter-brained, so if I don't deal with something right at that moment, it gets shoved to the side (and sometimes forgotten about). Different personalities and all of that. Seems like it was an honest enough mistake on her husband's part, not some nefarious plot to deceive, embezzle, and get online permission to keep the funds.

 

Mercy.

How was it an honest mistake if he knew he was being overpaid? Even if he only suspected that he was being overpaid, how hard would it have been to get out his contract and check to be sure?

 

It might be different if this had only happened in one paycheck and he honestly didn't notice that anything was amiss, but this went on for a period of time, he knew he was being overpaid, and he simply didn't bother to report it. That's not honest.

[G5052]

Honest mistake, but everywhere I've worked, the employee was responsible for verifying the amounts and notifying them of any problems.  I remember seeing that several times in the employment contracts I've signed. I also remember language to the effect that the employee would owe the employer if there was an overage.

 

I do primarily fixed-price contract work now, and it happened about a year ago with one of my contracts.  I reported it right away.  They told me to destroy the check, and sent me a new one via Fedex.  I looked, and my contract does specify that I must report any payment issues as soon as they are discovered.  

 

 

[Ripley]

How was it an honest mistake if he knew he was being overpaid? Even if he only suspected that he was being overpaid, how hard would it have been to get out his contract and check to be sure?

 

It might be different if this had only happened in one paycheck and he honestly didn't notice that anything was amiss, but this went on for a period of time, he knew he was being overpaid, and he simply didn't bother to report it. That's not honest.

 

It's fine that we disagree. LOL

 

When I read posts 1 and 7 by the OP, my impression is that it was an honest mistake based on confusion re: his pay schedule and contract.

 

I don't presume to know how hard it would have been for him to get out his contract to verify the details. Maybe it was hard, or he was lazy, or life got busy - who knows but he? But it's a non-issue and an irrelevent bias: he didn't check. Could've, Would've, and Should've don't count for nearly as much as we lend them credit.

 

He didn't suspect he was being overpaid; he suspected he was mistaken about his salary and he was mistaken about his commission wages. I don't get how the number of occurrences influences your opinion of his honesty, because if his head is buried in the sand ... it's buried. Not just for one paycheck, but for a period of paychecks.

 

Dishonest would be him digging up his contract, realizing he was in an overpayment situation, and sitting on that information while it continued.  The details provided by the OP may show that the DH is an ostrich, or any host of "what kind of person" adjectives - but it's a leap from those to dishonest.

[Catwoman]

It's fine that we disagree. LOL

I'm cool with it, too! :)

 

He didn't suspect he was being overpaid; he suspected he was mistaken about his salary and he was mistaken about his commission wages. I don't get how the number of occurrences influences your opinion of his honesty, because if his head is buried in the sand ... it's buried. Not just for one paycheck, but for a period of paychecks.

Yeah, but I guess you're just more trusting than I am, because I can't help but think that if he suspected that he was being underpaid, he wouldn't have been nearly so casual about it. ;)

[GSOchristie]

It was more complicated than just overpaying, the paycheck varied due to bonuses earned each day, the salary portion was just a small part of the paycheck, if I understand correctly.

[Catwoman]

It was more complicated than just overpaying, the paycheck varied due to bonuses earned each day, the salary portion was just a small part of the paycheck, if I understand correctly.

Yes, but the thing is, he suspected there was a discrepancy. If he had never noticed that anything looked wrong, I could sympathize with the OP, but that wasn't the case.

[Ripley]

I'm cool with it, too! :)

 

 

Yeah, but I guess you're just more trusting than I am, because I can't help but think that if he suspected that he was being underpaid, he wouldn't have been nearly so casual about it. ;)

 

I don't think it's more trusting,it's just more relating to a certain personality type. I'm an out-of-sight, out-of-mind kind of gal, and I relate to the OP's husband.  When we went from pay stubs to auto-deposit, I gave up trying to understand and keep up with it.  I don't check my bank balance, my credit card balances, or my fridge for butter ... I just go with the flow on a wing and a prayer and hope it all works out. 

 

I do think he might have been as casual about it if he thought he were underpaid. It's a personality type. And the OP might've looked more like: 

 

Is it de-masculating for me to call DH's work to find out what's going on with his paycheck, since he won't?

 

:lol:

[Mom23Boys]

How was it an honest mistake if he knew he was being overpaid? Even if he only suspected that he was being overpaid, how hard would it have been to get out his contract and check to be sure?

 

It might be different if this had only happened in one paycheck and he honestly didn't notice that anything was amiss, but this went on for a period of time, he knew he was being overpaid, and he simply didn't bother to report it. That's not honest.

 

I can see it if it is a commission sort of job. When my DH was in sales, he had a minimum amount each month he would get paid. It was a draw against his commission. So, his first check was half of his draw and the second check was the other half plus commission. I can see thinking maybe you were getting the whole draw in one check and the other would be commission only.

 

If it were salary only and no routine commission or bonuses, then I totally agree with you. Either way I do think the responsibility was on the employee to make sure.

 

I would have checked personally, but I can see how it could get pushed to the side and forgotten.

[UncleEJ]

Apparently.

 

I'm not sure what she was hoping we would say. Did she think someone would suggest that her dh should be allowed to keep the money? :confused:

No. Not at all. We ARE paying back the money, gladly.

[Farrar]

I didn't read all the responses, but I had a very similar situation happen.  It was when I changed to part time, my babies had just been born, it was direct deposit, dh and I noticed sort of (at first I thought it was my regular new salary plus a bonus I was supposed to get for something) but then it didn't get taken care of for several months, at which point of course I paid the money back, however, it was done over a period of time - the employer and I agreed it was just a big mix up and we worked out for them to take it out of my wages over a long period.  By the end of the year, it was all paid back.

 

Since the employer is at least partially at fault, I think it's unfair if they expect all the money right away.  But it would dishonest and wrong to keep the money.

[Catwoman]

No. Not at all. We ARE paying back the money, gladly.

That's what it sounded like. That's why I think a few of us aren't sure why you asked the question in the first place.

[UncleEJ]

I agree with the others who say that the employee needs to repay the money as soon as possible, and that the employee should have addressed the situation immediately upon noticing the discrepancy.

 

As far as "responsibility" goes - I guess I'd say both sides made mistakes, but because the employee was the first to notice and remained silent, the employee bears the heavier weight. The employer's mistake was oversight, not a breach of ethics.

 

I do hope the repayment schedule is not too much of a hardship, and I hope you are able to repay at a faster rate than required just to be done with it.

 

I'd also like to acknowledge your courage in posting. You must have known you'd get some responses you didn't want to hear. I can understand why the situation is a tough pill to swallow.

Thank you. I was most definitely not looking to be told it was all their fault and we are innocent. I see that my title is not a good one. Should have been more like "this happened, it sucks, blah blah".

Part of the reason it went unnoticed/ignored/whatever is DH was injured around this time also and it was the last thing on our minds. I'm not trying to excuse it, just saying that things were crazy and we made a mistake. Thank you for all your answers and points of view.

[AlmiraGulch]

I think most of you are missing the point.

 

I'm certain, based on what the OP has said, that they're not trying to steal from the company or something.  And I can totally understand how the amount could have been missed based on the variable compensation structure.

 

It's inconvenient and unfortunate to have to pay something like this back, but it isn't a matter of what is "fair" or whose fault it was, or whether or not anyone noticed the discrepancy and failed to report it immediately.   It's a matter of what is legal, and so it isn't really a gray issue at all.

 

This is a business issue, not a moral one.  

 

 

[UncleEJ]

That's what it sounded like. That's why I think a few of us aren't sure why you asked the question in the first place.

It was more of a frustrated vent about the situation and I'm not sure why I worded it the way I did.

[Catwoman]

It was more of a frustrated vent about the situation and I'm not sure why I worded it the way I did.

Oh, OK -- don't worry about the wording. I never seem to get the words exactly right when I'm venting, either. I'm usually too annoyed to worry about every last phrase. :)

[Murphy101]

Ya know, I don't think I ever signed a contract for any job I ever had.

 

Is this common?

My dh just spent 3 hours going over his new contract, peeing in a cup, being finger printed for a back ground check, and having his passports verified as current. This has been the norm for every job he has had he last 18 years.

 

One of my sons just went through the same thing, minus the finger print and passport (still did a background check though).

 

Neither of these jobs are big pay jobs or anything particularly glamorous or whatever.

 

Most of the contract covers non disclosure and non compete clauses. IOW, your salary will be this much, you cannot share your work with anyone outside this company and you cannot work for anyone outside this company without a supervisor sign off and when you leave this company you cannot work for a competitor for ___ amount of time and or within _____ distance of this company. There might be one paragraph about pay and it is ridiculously vague and butt covering for the company. And depending on the company, it can be a real PITA to get payroll to get their butt in gear to correct a problem. Oh you missed your paycheck? Oh well. We'll fix that in a few weeks. Maybe. But when they screw up? Amazing how fast they expect you to fix it for them. :/

[Tap]

I think the bookkeeper or data entry person was at fault for making the error. 

I think the employee was at fault for being dishonest accepting the overpayment and not talking a moment to clarify. Especially since it happened week after week....it wasn't like it was a one time error that could have been attributed to an odd pay cycle. 

 

The employee should have notified someone of the error and clarified the situation.  If they honestly thought there was a miscommunication, there would have been no big deal about asking.  

 

 

I have been over paid before by a full weeks vacation by a huge national company (paid for the vacation on 2 consecutive paychecks in addition to my regular pay).  I notified them and put the money in a savings account until it could be clarified.  The payroll specialist I talked to said it was wrong an I wasn't overpaid.  LOL  Several months went by and I never heard back, nor was my pay adjusted.  I let it go and after 6mths and I spent the money.  I wondered about that weeks pay for at least a year or two, wondering all the time if they would eventually figure out the error, but alas the never did.  I no longer feel guilt about the extra money I was paid, but I did for a very, very long time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fraidycat]

Having been in a similar situation re: overpayment AND underpayment more times than I care to count. As the one who keeps track of the family finances, I think it is absolutely the employees responsibility to keep track of and point out any errors to have them rectified ASAP.

 

Says the one who is currently, once AGAIN (Aaaargh!) in possession of money that I'm not sure belongs to us, so it sits in limbo until this gets straightened out. It sucks. It really, really does. It gets tiring trying to keep track of "other people's money" on top of our own. So, I just try to be grateful for the job and paycheck and ride it out, every time.

[SKL]

Obviously the employer made a mistake, but it was unintentional.  The employee - unclear, from the perspective of an unbiased outsider.

 

I would not waste time arguing about whose fault it was.  I'd figure out the right amount of pay and make it right, as soon as I could.  If you're looking for an argument that says employees get to profit from employer payroll mistakes, I think you're out of luck.  I also think it would be a terrible idea to let the boss think you'd want to keep pay you weren't entitled to.

[LucyStoner]

In some states the employer can only recoup overpayments for 90 days, 6 months or a year.

[Aelwydd]

When I first began working for my present company, I started as a contractor.  I signed a contract for a certain amount; my first paycheck, I noticed it was more than I had calculated, and that the rate I was being paid was $3.00/hour more than what I was contracted for.  Now, I will argue that I think my rate of pay should have been the higher amount, and then some, lol.  But, that's not what was agreed upon.  And, if I'd kept that money, and said nothing, I would have run the risk of having the error found out, and then being responsible for returning the overpay. Depending on how long I kept mum, that could have been a significant amount.

 

I called the next day and told them the error I found, and of course, they corrected it immediately, and deducted the overage from the following paycheck.  To me, it's not worth the financial and legal stress of worrying what the employer may do to try to recoup their loss.  It's not legally your money anyway, but it's theirs. You should return it and move on.  In my case, I ended up getting hired on to the company and getting substantial raise after a few months' time.  It would have been unwise to jeopardize that opportunity with a poor referral or reference from the contract company.