Late readers can catch up and excell.

[AmyontheFarm]

This is our third year homeschooling.  When we pulled our son from the school system, they had just completed a reading assessment and the school report stated that our grade 5 son was just barely reading at a grade 2 level.  I just spent the last few minutes looking for the reading level of some books he had recently finished reading and discussing.  The books range using the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level from grade 8.9 to 13.7!  He spends every minute he can reading.  I think however the main reason for the improved grade levels is I gave him books he was actually interested in!  If your child started off as a slower reader, take heart, and find them books they are actually interested in!

[msjones]

Yes, yes!!  Late readers can do just fine -- if they aren't shamed and stressed and stifled by their teachers while they learn at their pace.

 

 One of my boys took a long time to read fluently and to be able to relax as he read.  He is now doing very well.  I'm so glad he wasn't in a regular school -- he would have been tested and retested and sent for extra help and put in 'special' classes.  He would have been so discouraged.  As it is, he doesn't even know he was a slow bloomer.  :)

[Farrar]

And it's not just anecdotal...  I've now seen a couple of studies saying that early or late reading doesn't really matter in the end. :)

[AmyontheFarm]

When my son was in public school he resisted reading.  He only wanted to be on the tractors with Daddy or Grandpa, never sitting at home on the couch reading with Mommy.  One day he told me he was going to be a farmer just like Daddy is, so he could drive a tractor.  I told him that I was really sorry, but he couldn't drive any tractors on this farm until he had read the owners manual so he would know how to safely operate the tractor.  Then I stayed silent.  A minute or so later he asked me where the owners manuals were, so I got him one.  Silly kid taught himself to read by sounding things out.  I call him silly because the first words he tried to sound out were - transmission fluid levels.  His teachers and EA thought I was sending him to a reading tutor.  Nope, I just gave him tractor manuals.  When I looked around his classroom (24 girls and 6 boys)  I struggled to find one book that I could image my son actually reading.  I sent in old copies for farming machinery magazines and image there were a hit with the boys!

[PollyOR]

I see my 11yo daughter as fitting into this category.  

 

I remember watching her cousin who was the same age (7yo) devour the Harry Potter series while wondering if my daughter would ever get past "Each Peach Pear Plum."  A couple of years ago (at 9yo) I had doubts she would reach the 15th percentile for standardized testing required by our state.  Whenever she started reading The Candy Fairy series I wasn't sure she was actually reading them.    But, when her face was stuck in the book for that long it was obvious something was going on/in  ^_^   

 

This summer we took a six week trip across the US.  I brought the Chronicles of Narnia set thinking it would last the entire trip.  Nope.  She read all seven and It seemed like I was buying a new book for her a couple of times a week.   

 

It is a wonderful feeling to see your child lost in a book!   :wub:

[Jilly]

I agree. My oldest son was a late reader. At 10 he was still struggling with fluency. He did listen to audiobooks for years and loved them, but he couldn't read on his own. Around 10 and a half he took off. It was as if something just clicked, and now he is my most avid reader. I am so grateful that he was not in school during this struggle, and I am happy that I didn't stress about it.  :)

[kitten18]

Awww, this was a nice thread. Thanks for sharing!

[AmyontheFarm]

It is a wonderful feeling to see your child lost in a book!   :wub:

Yes, it is! 

 

Although, not so wonderful when you to have to make him get out of his closet because he was hiding in there with the light on to read his book, instead of sleeping.  He gave me a heart attack because his bed was empty!  He has been known to sleep walk in the past and leave the house but that was a few years ago.

[Hunter]

I know one little boy that went from not reading at all, to reading a college level physics book in 2 weeks. This was a 2E kid and not the norm, but it happened. He told his mom it was the first book he saw that he wanted to read. The tractor manual story reminded me of this one.

 

Boys especially can have atypical reading experiences. I never judge a boy's future potential off of his early reading experiences. They mean very little.

[ondreeuh]

On the other hand, dyslexic children aren't going to just develop the ability to read if they are interested in the material. My son was reading at a K level in late 2nd grade (that's when I withdrew him), and it is only with an incredible amount of work (2-3 hours of LA a day) that he now reads at grade level. I retained him a year, so it has been almost 5 years since that 2nd grade assessment and he is reading at a 6th-7th grade level. We are still doing remediation with REWARDS.

 

I'm glad for your child's success, but don't want to give false hope to parents of kids who would be hurt terribly by a "wait and see" approach.

[PollyOR]

On the other hand, dyslexic children aren't going to just develop the ability to read if they are interested in the material. My son was reading at a K level in late 2nd grade (that's when I withdrew him), and it is only with an incredible amount of work (2-3 hours of LA a day) that he now reads at grade level. I retained him a year, so it has been almost 5 years since that 2nd grade assessment and he is reading at a 6th-7th grade level. We are still doing remediation with REWARDS.

 

I'm glad for your child's success, but don't want to give false hope to parents of kids who would be hurt terribly by a "wait and see" approach.

 

Ondreeuh, good reminder. 

[Melissa in Australia]

On the other hand, dyslexic children aren't going to just develop the ability to read if they are interested in the material. My son was reading at a K level in late 2nd grade (that's when I withdrew him), and it is only with an incredible amount of work (2-3 hours of LA a day) that he now reads at grade level. I retained him a year, so it has been almost 5 years since that 2nd grade assessment and he is reading at a 6th-7th grade level. We are still doing remediation with REWARDS.

 

I'm glad for your child's success, but don't want to give false hope to parents of kids who would be hurt terribly by a "wait and see" approach.

:iagree:

Dyslexia here as well.

 It is such a struggle

[8filltheheart]

On the other hand, dyslexic children aren't going to just develop the ability to read if they are interested in the material. My son was reading at a K level in late 2nd grade (that's when I withdrew him), and it is only with an incredible amount of work (2-3 hours of LA a day) that he now reads at grade level. I retained him a year, so it has been almost 5 years since that 2nd grade assessment and he is reading at a 6th-7th grade level. We are still doing remediation with REWARDS.

 

I'm glad for your child's success, but don't want to give false hope to parents of kids who would be hurt terribly by a "wait and see" approach.

While I agree that with dyslexics you cannot simply wait and see, I also want to give moms of dyslexics hope that one day their struggling student can still really thrive and I do agree with Amy that finding the "right books" can inspire them to become avid readers.

 

My dyslexic ds was still an emergent reader at the beginning of 4th grade (reading controlled introductory level type primary grade readers.). We (have) never stopped working hard on his skills. (We still work on spelling.) I'm guessing somewhere mid-to-lateish 4th, he was finally starting to move into simple chapter books (think Thorton Burgess books.....most of my 2nd graders are reading them confidently). Somewhere mid-5thish I read about the Mysterious Benedict Society books on this very forum. I got the first one for him. That book turned my child into a bookworm!!! That was a word I would never have guessed I would use to describe him. But, that book totally changed how he viewed reading for fun.

 

As a high school sr, he still is a very slow reader and his spelling is horrific. But, he is most definitely a reader and has read 100s of books just for pure enjoyment. ( but books that the avg high schooler can crank out out in a few hrs will take him days to read) He is not impacted by his dyslexia other than speed of reading and his spelling. He is a terrific writer and has won science essay awards, is writing a novel(well over 50,000 word mark), and is in the thick of college and scholarship applications.

 

I think homeschooling was the key to all of his success. He had no idea just how bad his reading skills were and never felt stigmatized by his dyslexia. He will tell you now that he actually views his dyslexia as a special gift. He is incredibly gifted in math and science and he will tell you that he has the ability to mentally rotate and view images from multiple directions. So those confusing and rotating letters/words that kill him in reading are the very skills he uses when he is problem-solving complex issues.

[Jane in NC]

I think homeschooling was the key to all of his success. He had no idea just how bad his reading skills were and never felt stigmatized by his dyslexia. He will tell you now that he actually views his dyslexia as a special gift. He is incredibly gifted in math and science and he will tell you that he has the ability to mentally rotate and view images from multiple directions. So those confusing and rotating letters/words that kill him in reading are the very skills he uses when he is problem-solving complex issues.

 

My dyslexic husband (with a master's degree in Mathematics and a computer engineering job) has always said that he is not learning disabled--he just thinks differently.  It has been a total advantage for him in his career as a problem solver.  He often visualizes things his colleagues miss.

 

But thank goodness for spell check!  He'll never understand ie/ei spellings--despite his mathematical prowess.

 

My husband's first grade teacher called him stupid because he could not see the difference between b's and d's. I always chuckle because he later did a master's thesis in topology where rotations don't matter--b's and d's are equivalent.  While he was not homeschooled, his mother was a counselor--today's version is a reading specialist--who intervened.

 

Just wanted to mention a long term success story...

[Farrar]

Yes, I like that phrase - "the mythology of the early reader."  It's now been enshrined in educational policy too.  :(  But I just read about a study from the UK about how when kids were taught earlier their skill set later on wasn't any better (or worse, IIRC), but there were a larger number of kids who disliked reading and writing in the group that was pushed to learn earlier.

 

This is not to say that forced delay of academics is universally good.  Some kids suffer on the other end.  In school there can only be students on track and students behind, but in homeschooling you can have early readers and late readers and no one has to be "behind."

[OneStepAtATime]

My husband is dyslexic and dysgraphic and nearly didn't even graduate high school.  His teachers thought he was incapable and had little hope for him.  He read very, very late, cannot spell well and does poorly with basic math.  He is also a brilliant engineer, fantastic computer specialist, excellent pilot and can do advanced math with ease (just needs a calculator if he needs to process the basic math quickly).  His brain DOES think differently, and far, far better than mine for figuring out complex systems, making global connections, tying the big picture to all the little pieces and is highly respected in his field.  School nearly destroyed him but his family believed in him and he made it.  We now have two dyslexic kids, one already in 7th grade, and neither one reads anywhere near grade level yet, but I know they will get there.  Homeschooling has been such a gift this last year and a half, even with all the questions and uncertainty.  I wish we had started sooner.  I love this post, reminding me to keep the kids interests in their own learning a priority.  I know it intellectually, but I sometimes forget and press forward without including their own interests in the planning.

 

And I love bringing the tractor manuals to school!  My husband would have thrived with those!  :)

[Soror]

I just love reading success stories. My son didn't really take off w/ reading until 8, which I guess isn't that late compared to some. My daughter is just now starting to show a bit of fluency of 6.5. I was really hoping I'd have one of those magical early readers but not yet I guess, although I still have 2 to go so perhaps I'll be lucky yet. Developmental readiness is just not something you can rush, although as pointed out earlier sometimes you need the right kind of instruction in order to have success. It seems these days early reading is valued so highly that we cannot see intelligence beyond that. As I've said many times I'm very thankful for hs'ing my son. I wish there were accommodations for every child that needed them. I think our world misses out so much on so narrowly defining intelligence.

[8filltheheart]

. Developmental readiness is just something you can rush, although as pointed out earlier sometimes you need the right kind of instruction in order to have success. It seems these days early reading is valued so highly that we cannot see intelligence beyond that........

. I think our world misses out so much on so narrowly defining intelligence.

Absolutely!!!!!

 

On Friday I was talking to a friend whose dd is a sr in ps. Her dd is failing and has given up on herself. Listening to her story literally makes me inwardly weep. I know that our ds, who is literally a a very top student in all meaning of that description, would most likely be in the same situation as her dd if he had gone to school.

 

No one would have noticed his mathematical skills bc eve I almost didn't. I had to read him the problems. No one would have recognized just how intelligent he really is bc in all things that mattered by ps definitions.......early reading, writing, spelling,speed......he was so below avg in all of them.

 

But.....now, he shines! He is gifted. He is talented. And I have zero doubt that one day he will change the world. Seriously. And his gifts would have been destroyed in ps.

[MomintheMountains]

I've noticed some conflict on this board between the idea of whether a late reader is a "late bloomer" or a child in need of testing for learning disabilities. I started a thread that touched on the idea of later learning and several people commented and were very concerned about the potential for existing learning disabilities. So my question is, how do you know the difference in a particular situation? When you have a child who isn't reading well at say, 8, how do you know if you should relax and let them bloom in their own time or run out and have a battery of tests performed? I lean toward letting a child develop at their own pace because it seems that if you freak out and start having them tested that they could develop the idea that something is wrong with them when in reality everything is fine.

[Soror]

But.....now, he shines! He is gifted. He is talented. And I have zero doubt that one day he will change the world. Seriously. And his gifts would have been destroyed in ps.

My dh wasn't totally destroyed in school but I really wonder how it would have been if he would have been hs'd or at least redshirted to lessen the expectations. Now he has such a natural gift for engineering that he works circles around those with degrees. By the time he got to college I think he had given up on school. He still values and excels at learning on his own but his view of institutional education is very dim. I wish we would have had a technical school around here for him. I'm thankful that he is able to do the programming and electrical work he loves and is so talented at in his job, despite not having a degree. He is a big cheerleader for hs'ing though because he well remembers his school experiences and hopes that we can provide the time and opportunities for ds to succeed in ways that he couldn't. I wish he would have had someone to see and nurture his strengths and help in his weaknesses instead of just labelling him as one who wasn't academic. I was the opposite so it is so amazing to me to see that although I did so well in school and he did not it certainly means little in the way of actual intelligence.

[maize]

Yes, I like that phrase - "the mythology of the early reader." It's now been enshrined in educational policy too. :( But I just read about a study from the UK about how when kids were taught earlier their skill set later on wasn't any better (or worse, IIRC), but there were a larger number of kids who disliked reading and writing in the group that was pushed to learn earlier.

 

This is not to say that forced delay of academics is universally good. Some kids suffer on the other end. In school there can only be students on track and students behind, but in homeschooling you can have early readers and late readers and no one has to be "behind."

Could you link to this or other studies? I was a late and voracious reader, so I've always known it was possible; I'd love to see what the research has to say though.

[8filltheheart]

I've noticed some conflict on this board between the idea of whether a late reader is a "late bloomer" or a child in need of testing for learning disabilities. I started a thread that touched on the idea of later learning and several people commented and were very concerned about the potential for existing learning disabilities. So my question is, how do you know the difference in a particular situation? When you have a child who isn't reading well at say, 8, how do you know if you should relax and let them bloom in their own time or run out and have a battery of tests performed? I lean toward letting a child develop at their own pace because it seems that if you freak out and start having them tested that they could develop the idea that something is wrong with them when in reality everything is fine.

I intuitively can tell the difference with my kids, but here are some concrete examples. My 8 yod should technically be in 3rd grade (late July bday). I made the decision to hold her back b/c everything she did was delayed. She had to be taught her colors and didn't get them 100% correct until 4. When she first turned 5, she still couldn't rhyme. She couldn't match words that started with the same sound. (For example, she couldn't tell you that cat and cake started with the same sound and dog didn't. A word like duck would never have connected with her b/c it had a K sound in it!) At 6, when I did start her in K, she was still slightly delayed, but definitely at a pt where progress was possible vs. simply just not cognitively ready. Now at 8, she has almost caught up to a 3rd grade level in math (she is more than 1/2 way through 2nd grade math and will probably be done mid-Feb) and is reading Burgess books confidently.  (ETA:   and while she did things delayed, they were not delayed in an abnormal way.   She just did things on her own time table.   In all ways, she is completely "normal.")

 

Conversely, my dyslexic could rhyme, was never delayed in anything, etc. He also has auditory dyslexia and does confuse some sounds. But, he could identify initial and final sounds, but he could not learn to sound out and read, etc. His was definitely not simple "needing to cognitively mature."

[ondreeuh]

I knew mine wasn't a late bloomer because he clearly was not neurotypical. He was extremely hyperactive and had a language disorder (very delayed in receptive and expressive language).

 

If you understand all the steps to learning to read, you may be able to determine if your child is somewhere on the normal curve or completely off of it. Kids with dyslexia usually have a very hard time with phonemic awareness and that is a red flag. Rhyming, isolating, and substituting sounds are generally a precursor to reading, which is why Reading Reflex and AAR spend so much time on them. A child has to be able to segment sounds before he can blend. If a child wasn't starting to master phonemic awareness by 6 (assuming you've been trying) then I would teach him/her like hr is dyslexic whether or not you get testing. Testing is useful if you need accommodations for standardized tests, but you can use an approptiate reading program without an official dx.

 

8's son is unusual, I think, but dyslexia is a rather broad term. I would have guessed he was more if a visual dyslexic than auditory, since most of the auditory pieces are in place.

[8filltheheart]

8's son is unusual, I think, but dyslexia is a rather broad term. I would have guessed he was more if a visual dyslexic than auditory, since most of the auditory pieces are in place.

 

I don't think his experience is all that unusual.   Even to this day, he can not distinguish between hearing "pillow or pellow" or "pencil or pincel."   He really struggles to distinguish between certain sounds, so that is where his auditory weaknesses show up.   But, visual discrimination in words was his more dominant issue.   Letter and word searches were a huge struggle.   He started in Apples and Pears A in 5th grade (about mid-way through the book) and it was the first approach to spelling that made any impact at all.  Building words by morpheme vs. focusing on words phonetically changed the way he looked at spelling.   (He still is a horrific speller, but he made much greater strides than his older brother (also a dyslexic, but less impacted) did.   Our oldest graduated spelling worse than our 12th grader, but his reading struggles were no where near as severe.)

 

But, yes, our 12th grader could rhyme cat/sat/mat and could tell you that cat and cape had the same initial sound which was different from dog.    He had reading readiness precursors.  He could memorize sound/letter associations (with confusion in some vowel sounds, especially i/e and o/u)  He was also great at sequencing.   It was a lack in the precursors/memorizing, and sequencing skills that indicated to me that my dd's issues were more maturation than disability.   

[OneStepAtATime]

I've noticed some conflict on this board between the idea of whether a late reader is a "late bloomer" or a child in need of testing for learning disabilities. I started a thread that touched on the idea of later learning and several people commented and were very concerned about the potential for existing learning disabilities. So my question is, how do you know the difference in a particular situation? When you have a child who isn't reading well at say, 8, how do you know if you should relax and let them bloom in their own time or run out and have a battery of tests performed? I lean toward letting a child develop at their own pace because it seems that if you freak out and start having them tested that they could develop the idea that something is wrong with them when in reality everything is fine.

I think this is the $10,000,000 question.  When do you put your child through a battery of tests that cost money and might undermine their confidence and when do you just give them time to develop?  I think you really have to look at each individual child and circumstance.  One size doesn't fit all.  Homeschooling gives you more time to see if they just need additional time, but even then, if you keep trying and trying to teach them basic skills and those skills are not being learned, evaluations may provide the much needed guidance on where to go.

 

My kids were in school when we finally had an evaluation.  If we had homeschooled from the start an evaluation might not have been necessary for most of their issues because, as a parent, I probably would have been able to experiment with different ways to approach learning and been able to provide accommodations as they learned.  My kids were in a school, though, and although they were intelligent, they were having more and more difficulty functioning in a standard classroom and I was spending hours and hours and hours every week trying to reteach material that they weren't learning and trying to help them get through all the testing, etc.  We were all miserable and it was pulling our family apart.  Getting the dyslexia evaluation was a HUGE relief.  Things finally made sense.  Reading the Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide was such an eye opener, too, but I would never have picked it up without the diagnosis.  Our daughter was so happy she finally had answers for why she couldn't yet read like her classmates but could frequently grasp concepts very quickly.  It changed our lives and only for the better.

 

Did specialized tutoring from a dyslexia tutor help afterwards?  Nope.  But homeschooling with a mom that now knew what to look for to help out with gaining skills while providing accommodations really has.  Both kids are happier, are making gains in areas they were just treading water before and our family is in a much better place.  Should all kids get evals the minute they show signs of difficulties?  No, I don't think so at all.  But if parents are beating themselves up because they can't seem to help their child and the child feels like a failure and doesn't understand why, then a diagnosis can really help to answer if there really are some issues that could be addressed proactively.  Also, if a parent knows very little about learning issues, getting an evaluation can help guide them in ways that can be very enlightening and uplifting.

 

One thing many may not consider is the strengths that a good diagnosis can point out, as well as the weaknesses.  After our kids were evaluated, we found that my daughter had tremendous strengths in 3D spatial relations.  Because of that information, even her teacher for those last months of school before we homeschooled her, allowed her to construct much of her science work in clay instead of filling out worksheets.  She remembered the science concepts far better, did really well on tests, and gained a much deeper understanding of the concept of science as a whole because she was finally allowed to learn the material the way her brain was designed to.  I wouldn't have known to do that and neither would the teacher without the evaluation.

 

My son did fantastic in school until 2nd grade.  We got caught flat footed when he hit a wall in 2nd.  One of the issues (that I would NOT have known about without the evaluation) was that my son functions above grade level (in some areas WAY above grade level) if information is presented in color with an auditory component.  He functions at grade level or slightly below grade level if there is no color but an auditory component to go with black and white text.  If information is presented in black and white with NO auditory component, his functionality drops to almost nothing.  I had never heard of these issues or strengths.  I didn't know they existed.

 

He also has stealth dysgraphia.  He forms his letters just fine, though.  I was told his letters actually looked better than some of the girls...up through 1st grade.  In 2nd grade they were no longer writing on tablet paper with guided lines.  They were actually expected to copy work from the board onto college rule paper.  He had never been taught.  He didn't know how.  His brain could not process how to size down the letters and space them properly.  His teacher thought he didn't care and was deliberately stalling.  He was suddenly the slowest in the class and she took it personally.  

 

As a parent, I didn't understand the issue either. He could write just fine before. Why couldn't he now?  A general eval through the school was useless.  They had never had experience with this type of dysgraphia.  Without outside help, we would not have know the issue.  He simply needs to be taught more explicitly how to size down and space the letters and that instruction has to be systematic and over a long period of time, learning how to size on different types of paper.  He does not need the standard dysgraphia process of learning how to form the letters.  He already knows that.  Once we started homeschooling, would I have found this out on my own?  Eventually, probably.  But having an answer that made sense right at the beginning sure helped us both find a more productive path far more quickly and it was such a relief to finally understand.

 

Anyway, I know this is long.  Point is I think in some instances getting answers is a huge relief and a lot of help, but certainly is not necessary every time a child is a little behind what is typical for peers.  Good luck to all of you.  This post has been very interesting.

[Farrar]

Could you link to this or other studies? I was a late and voracious reader, so I've always known it was possible; I'd love to see what the research has to say though.

 

This is the link I refered to that was going around FB a couple of weeks ago.  It's all studies about academic readiness and age as related to a movement in the UK called "Too Much Too Soon."  The link describes lots of research, but the study I remembered (turned out it was in NZ, not the UK) is toward the end:

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/school-starting-age-the-evidence

 

I'm rotten at keeping links like this, so I can't find older ones...  Alas.  But I've seen others.  Another study I saw was about finding those "right books" the way the OP described - it basically said that letting kids pick their own books for summer reading leads to more gains on reading scores than giving them "good" books.

 

Like I said, I don't think it's black and white "early academics" or "late academics" - learning through play is important and there are structured ways to make that more effective and useful for young kids.  The countries that delay academics don't delay learning and actually do a great deal for kids and learning.  And kids ready to read should never be held back.  One of my twins was ready at age 5 and was happily reading Henry and Mudge by the end of kindergarten.  His brother wasn't really reading for another year and a half, so not a late reader, but not early either.  And both of them have remained slow readers, but I can see that they're catching up - I suspect in a couple of years (hey, by age 11, as in the study I linked above) that they'll be pretty even with their peers in every way.

 

Another thing I thought of that might interest people in this thread (and their new readers!) is the book Thank You, Mr. Falker by Patricia Polacco.  It's a true story - the kids and I had the privilege of hearing her talk about this book a couple of years ago and it was very moving.  Basically, she didn't learn to read until she was 14 years old (the character in the book is younger, to make it more believable and relateable for today's kids).  She was dyslexic and it was undiagnosed for years (and unknown back when she was young).  One really amazing teacher realized that she was faking reading and knew about dyslexia and taught her himself and the book tells that story.

[8filltheheart]

In addition to what OneStepAtATime wrote, an additional benefit of testing is qualifying for additional time for standardized testing by approaching College Board for the additional time BEFORE they start taking those types of tests. (FWIW, testing has to be current. So testing from around age 7-9 will not be allowed. It would have to be less than 3 yr old.)

[lllll]

..

[lewelma]

I was a late reader, but my experience is not as positive as some, which is why I thought it would be worth sharing. 

 

Background:

In 4th grade I could only read basic Dr Seuss.

In 5th grade, my teacher handed me a Nancy Drew and I told her I could not read it.  Surprised, she asked me to count the number of words on the first page that I could not read.  I very clearly remember that it was a 1/2 page with large font, so probably about 60 words. I could not read 20 of them.

My parents paid for me at that point to go to reading school for a hour 3 times a week after school for 6 months, which helped, but I was still behind.

At 12 my father gave me my first novel - The Hobbit.  I LOVED it.  It took me *all* summer to read it - as in 2.5 months.  But I got through it.

 

At 13 I went to high school. (I had skipped 3rd grade, don't ask me how), and was put into the honors English class (also don't ask me how).  This is where the real struggles began.  I simply could not read the books. Poe's short stories in 9th grade - nope. Shakespeare in 10th grade - nope. The Federalist Papers in 11th grade - nope.  Pride and Prejudice in 12th grade - nope.  I simply could not read the books and relied on the cliff notes to get me through the tests and paper writing.

 

I also could not read any textbooks for history or science.  I was completely reliant on the teachers' lectures.

 

In my first year in university I really struggled, but brought my skills up both in novels and textbook reading.  Then again in my first year of grad school, I found that I could not read the material I was expected to read (scientific journals) -- my skills were still needing improvement.  So basically I learned to read until I was about 22 to 23.

 

I write all this to just give a 'heads up' to parents that even when you finally get your student to the level of reading a novel, there is still much more work to do.  And at least for me, I had simply not had enough reading hours by the time I hit high school to be able to handle the material.  So although clearly waiting for maturity for some students can be a good idea, I also think that the sooner you can get a delayed student reading the better.  And for me, *all* levels of reading were equally difficult to master.  There was no sigh of relief at age 12 when I started reading novels.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

What I do want

[Pen]

I've noticed some conflict on this board between the idea of whether a late reader is a "late bloomer" or a child in need of testing for learning disabilities. I started a thread that touched on the idea of later learning and several people commented and were very concerned about the potential for existing learning disabilities. So my question is, how do you know the difference in a particular situation? When you have a child who isn't reading well at say, 8, how do you know if you should relax and let them bloom in their own time or run out and have a battery of tests performed? I lean toward letting a child develop at their own pace because it seems that if you freak out and start having them tested that they could develop the idea that something is wrong with them when in reality everything is fine.

 

 

Assuming that the family can afford to do the testing, I would err in the direction of testing and then if the tests show that all is fine, you can relax and let them bloom in their own time.    If not, you can start to address whatever the problem is sooner rather than later.   There is a good chance that a child who is late to read will themselves be wondering if something is wrong and that the testing might either alleviate the worry, or alternatively give information that helps and allows the child to understand the difficulty rather than to perhaps, as many do, feel "stupid".

 

I would equate it to going to pediatrician for check ups--it does not necessarily mean anything is wrong, but if there are problems it may be easier to address them before they become totally impossible to ignore or life threatening,   Similarly, I think it is easier to address reading problems--if there are any--sooner rather than later.  Personally, I would say younger than 8 makes sense if you suspect problems for some particular reason, by 8 if you have a child who is still not reading and there is not an obvious reason why not, such as that he or she did not have any reading instruction at all yet, then IMO it seems like it is certainly time to test if possible.  By then it does not only affect reading, but also will affect other learning--word problems in math, learning via reading for other subjects, daily life.

 

You can have them tested in a calm way.   It does not mean a "freak out" (bold added to your post above).   This is an emotional overlay that you are putting on testing that need not be there and that could then be communicated to your child (or other children) about how you feel.  It is also apparently an emotional overlay being put on the idea that if there were some problem found that it would mean that the child is somehow less a person.   

 

I started with being advised to "wait and see."  And I had read a bunch of studies that showed things like that late or early reading evens out over time, so I thought it would be okay.   But in my son's case, that was inappropriate.   Luckily we started remediation at 3rd grade, but I think even earlier would have been better, for various reasons including that it took a year to figure out what program for reading intervention and remediation would actually work for him.

 

For us, getting some testing done served as a relief: it meant that a path toward a solution would be found.   Had it showed no problem, that too would have been a relief.  Even if it had showed some serious problem where reading would be forever unlikely it would have been helpful because it would have meant figuring out permanent ways to work around a reading problem as people who are blind have to do.

[maize]

I was a late reader, but my experience is not as positive as some, which is why I thought it would be worth sharing.

 

Background:

In 4th grade I could only read basic Dr Seuss.

In 5th grade, my teacher handed me a Nancy Drew and I told her I could not read it. Surprised, she asked me to count the number of words on the first page that I could not read. I very clearly remember that it was a 1/2 page with large font, so probably about 60 words. I could not read 20 of them.

My parents paid for me at that point to go to reading school for a hour 3 times a week after school for 6 months, which helped, but I was still behind.

At 12 my father gave me my first novel - The Hobbit. I LOVED it. It took me *all* summer to read it - as in 2.5 months. But I got through it.

 

At 13 I went to high school. (I had skipped 3rd grade, don't ask me how), and was put into the honors English class (also don't ask me how). This is where the real struggles began. I simply could not read the books. Poe's short stories in 9th grade - nope. Shakespeare in 10th grade - nope. The Federalist Papers in 11th grade - nope. Pride and Prejudice in 12th grade - nope. I simply could not read the books and relied on the cliff notes to get me through the tests and paper writing.

 

I also could not read any textbooks for history or science. I was completely reliant on the teachers' lectures.

 

In my first year in university I really struggled, but brought my skills up both in novels and textbook reading. Then again in my first year of grad school, I found that I could not read the material I was expected to read (scientific journals) -- my skills were still needing improvement. So basically I learned to read until I was about 20.

 

I write all this to just give a 'heads up' to parents that even when you finally get your student to the level of reading a novel, there is still much more work to do. And at least for me, I had simply not had enough reading hours by the time I hit high school to be able to handle the material. So although clearly waiting for maturity for some students can be a good idea, I also think that the sooner you can get a delayed student reading the better. And for me, *all* levels of reading were equally difficult to master. There was no sigh of relief at age 12 when I started reading novels.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

What I do want

Ruth, what a story of persistence. I'm curious to know what exactly you were struggling with and learning in college and graduate school in terms of reading. Not sounding out words, surely? Was it comprehension of complex sentences/paragraphs? Retaining a thought in mind as it was developed?

[MomintheMountains]

You can have them tested in a calm way. It does not mean a "freak out" (bold added to your post above). This is an emotional overlay that you are putting on testing that need not be there and that could then be communicated to your child (or other children) about how you feel. It is also apparently an emotional overlay being put on the idea that if there were some problem found that it would mean that the child is somehow less a person.

 

I don't think you know me well enough to diagnose "emotional overlay". The reasons I used the phrase "freak out" is not because that is how I would feel about testing, but because when one mentions late reading, people "freak out" and start lecturing about testing and intervention.

 

I am just curious about what (if) real science and or concrete criteria exist for knowing the difference between a late bloomer or a child with genuine disabilities. No freak out here.

[Farrar]

Assuming that the family can afford to do the testing, I would err in the direction of testing and then if the tests show that all is fine, you can relax and let them bloom in their own time.    

 

The thing is...  One of the things they test is whether or not a child is "on grade level."  A lot of the testing seems really wrapped up in school expectations - for young kids to have a lot of practice sitting and waiting, for example, and for young kids to be doing a lot of writing independently (not copywork).  I am thinking of a couple of kids I know of who had testing done, who were really going to be just fine and testing didn't find significant learning issues (kids with other issues like anxiety, for example, often end up having psych-ed testing done as well...), but hearing that they were "behind" for certain subjects and didn't have enough practice doing things like waiting patiently made the parents double down, not relax.

 

I don't know.  It's a conundrum, that's for sure and I can't pretend to have any answers or really dissuade anyone who thinks they need testing to get it.  Early intervention can be key, but early pressure can make things worse long term.  When I was teaching middle school, we often urged parents to get kids tested when there were issues.  By then, absolutely, zero question.  I mean, anyone with an 8 or 9 yo and up, then it seems obvious to me that it's time to test for whatever the issue seems to be.  But before that, I really don't know.  Parents who have had kids who turned out to really need intervention are obviously going to see it through that lens (as well they should).  But others have had kids lag "behind" and then catch up just fine.  They're often quieter voices in these discussions.

[8filltheheart]

I don't think you know me well enough to diagnose "emotional overlay". The reasons I used the phrase "freak out" is not because that is how I would feel about testing, but because when one mentions late reading, people "freak out" and start lecturing about testing and intervention.

 

I am just curious about what (if) real science and or concrete criteria exist for knowing the difference between a late bloomer or a child with genuine disabilities. No freak out here.

Ok, for a more definitive answer, the bell curve for normal reading age is 4 to 6. Iow, if I have a 5 yr old not reading, I am not going to be concerned at all. Hence, with my dd, we just held her back and waiting until 6 put her in the normal bell curve range.

 

7 can be an outlier that is simply an outlier for normal delayed cognitive development, but it is starting to get outside the normal range. If the child hasn't had instruction, then that is again different from a child who is not able to learn phonograms or decode, etc.

 

Another question is what is proficient for a particular age. Constant sounding out of every single word and never recognizing a word as a whole vs sounding out some words and starting to recognize some words as a whole vs. more recognition and less decoding. Those are all different stages of reading. Being stuck in that first stage beyond late 6-7..... I would begin to suspect an underlying issue. For example, it is where both of my dyslexics "stuck" for extended periods of time.

 

A non-reading 8 yr old that has been receiving instruction, yes, I would view that as an non-normal delay.

[Pen]

I don't think you know me well enough to diagnose "emotional overlay". The reasons I used the phrase "freak out" is not because that is how I would feel about testing, but because when one mentions late reading, people "freak out" and start lecturing about testing and intervention.

 

I am just curious about what (if) real science and or concrete criteria exist for knowing the difference between a late bloomer or a child with genuine disabilities. No freak out here.

 

I was basing what I wrote on what I read.  You did not write that other people freak out and suggest testing to you.  But I will accept that you meant what you now say you meant.

 

Various differences (for example, dyslexia) show up as brain differences, which researchers can now see on scans of the brain, though most people do not have access to places such as Yale University that test at the level of looking at the brain.  Nonetheless, competent testing can show up differences between normal function and certain problems in various areas including processing speed, auditory processing, visual processing, memory and so on, which may manifest in difficulties reading.   You might want to read some books such as one by Sally Shaywitz, M.D. Overcoming Dyslexia.   It does not much go into other potential problems such as visual or auditory processing, however, but it would be a start toward answering your question for yourself, by reading something by an M.D. researcher from Yale that is fairly up to date.

[OneStepAtATime]

The thing is...  One of the things they test is whether or not a child is "on grade level."  A lot of the testing seems really wrapped up in school expectations - for young kids to have a lot of practice sitting and waiting, for example, and for young kids to be doing a lot of writing independently (not copywork).  I am thinking of a couple of kids I know of who had testing done, who were really going to be just fine and testing didn't find significant learning issues (kids with other issues like anxiety, for example, often end up having psych-ed testing done as well...), but hearing that they were "behind" for certain subjects and didn't have enough practice doing things like waiting patiently made the parents double down, not relax.

 

I don't know.  It's a conundrum, that's for sure and I can't pretend to have any answers or really dissuade anyone who thinks they need testing to get it.  Early intervention can be key, but early pressure can make things worse long term.  When I was teaching middle school, we often urged parents to get kids tested when there were issues.  By then, absolutely, zero question.  I mean, anyone with an 8 or 9 yo and up, then it seems obvious to me that it's time to test for whatever the issue seems to be.  But before that, I really don't know.  Parents who have had kids who turned out to really need intervention are obviously going to see it through that lens (as well they should).  But others have had kids lag "behind" and then catch up just fine.  They're often quieter voices in these discussions.

Having talked to many parents and having experienced this ourselves, while I have not taken a national survey, the evaluations that seemed the most useful were usually not done through a school and were usually not done by someone looking through the lens of strictly "How is this child supposed to be functioning in a classroom with his peers?".  The evaluations that were usually the most helpful (and this was definitely the case for us) were private evals through a person or persons who are looking at the larger picture.  The school eval was only looking at comparison with kids of identical age and grade and how our children had done in the past,  in a classroom, not  overall.  The school eval was virtually useless and was leading us in the wrong direction.  It also made the kids feel like even more of a failure.  If we had only used the information from that evaluation, I shudder to think where we would be now.

 

I refused to accept the poor and incomplete answers that did not seem to actually address what was happening.  Thankfully, I had a friend going through the same issue and she had found a private evaluator.  The assessments were like night and day.  The report we received took the evaluator 3 hours to explain because there was so much information.  It was amazingly helpful and full of badly needed specifics.  The kids, even though they were tested for many, many hours, actually enjoyed the process, came out feeling great about themselves and my son discovered a love of plants because of the great conversations he had with the evaluator.  He came home and started a tomato garden.  I would not trade that assessment for anything and it put us on a far more productive path not just for that moment, but forever.  Have there been and will there still be bumps in the road?  Of course.  But we are in a much better place, all the same.

 

Unfortunately, not everyone has had the experience we did.  Testing does not always provide the helpful and useful answers needed, nor does it always accurately assess the strengths and weaknesses, and can easily cause more mental harm to the family than any positives.  And I don't know the answer...

[Pen]

The thing is...  One of the things they test is whether or not a child is "on grade level."  A lot of the testing seems really wrapped up in school expectations - ...

 

Do you mean school testing, as for IEP eligibility?--that definitely has a significant focus on whether a child is on grade level or how many benchmarks off he or she is.   The more detailed testing that is done by specialists outside of schools is different than that, to the extent I have looked into this.  Also other countries may do things differently even in school settings, such as give supports early and then wean off them, rather than waiting for children to fall a couple of years behind before giving help.  And that may not only change the results, but also the emotional feeling surrounding these issues.

 

When I had looked into whether late start was okay or not, I also realized in retrospect that a number of studies showing it to be fine were done in places that had more phonetic languages than English, or that had very different programs in place for students such as Finland perhaps, where the whole population was getting started in formal school at a later age than is usual in US, and where the overall student success rate was very high across the board.    

[OneStepAtATime]

One more thing, for anyone who suspects their child is dyslexic, do not be afraid of that diagnosis.  Read the Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide.  Read the Mislabeled Child by the same authors.  Do research in the scientific community, not the educational community.  Dyslexia means you may have deficits in some areas, but that is only because there are strengths, sometimes tremendous strengths, in other areas.  Areas, unfortunately, that usually remain untapped in elementary school but can come to be extremely valued in adulthood if given the chance to find those areas of strength.  If our educational system were set up to recognize this fact (and I do mean fact), then the diagnosis of dyslexia might very well be sought out, not shunned and children with this strength could be nurtured the way their brains were meant to function.  

 

It is suspected that nearly a quarter of our population is dyslexic.  There is a very large percentage of the dyslexic population occupying jobs in engineering, neuro-sciences, entrepreneurship roles, they frequently are great inventors, pilots, architects, etc....  not because they overcame dyslexia, but because their brains think differently and we need that difference.  The compact disk?  Invented by a dyslexic.  Because he overcame his dyslexia?  No, because his brain processes information differently.  He saw the record player and hated the sound of the needle on the record.  He determined that there must be a way to transfer the music without the source being touched.  He saw the end product long before the technology existed to make it happen, but he saw it quite clearly then worked hard to create what he saw in his head.  The invention of the CD led to the DVD and the Blu Ray player and eventually no need for a disk at all for transfer and storage of data.  Think how that one invention has changed our world?  But he was thought of as stupid in school.  

 

We need to change our definition of intelligence, open our minds to the possibility that there are MANY kinds of intelligence and our school system needs, somehow, to allow those differences and to nurture them, not to only educate through a very narrow lens.  A very large percentage of my family are teachers.  A diagnosis of dyslexia was only seen as a deficit and defined only by the weaknesses, not any of the strengths.  We need a better path.

[Farrar]

I'm definitely speaking of private evals. I think they just vary a lot - from reading these reports when I was teaching, I know the variety of the written summaries of the testing was often really different from hospital to hospital or private firm.

[Pen]

I'm definitely speaking of private evals. I think they just vary a lot - from reading these reports when I was teaching, I know the variety of the written summaries of the testing was often really different from hospital to hospital or private firm.

 

 

Which I guess then points up the importance of looking closely into finding what will, one hopes, be a helpful and excellent evaluation if one gets that, not just any evaluation.   Especially given the typically high cost.

[lewelma]

Ruth, what a story of persistence. I'm curious to know what exactly you were struggling with and learning in college and graduate school in terms of reading. Not sounding out words, surely? Was it comprehension of complex sentences/paragraphs? Retaining a thought in mind as it was developed?

Yes, sounding out words.  I did not realize that I could not sound out words until I taught my first boy to read when I was 35. I had no idea that oa said the long o sound, that ea said the long e sound,  or that ow said ow or long o, etc.  Just no idea.  none. Interestingly, I did not really understand that you could sound out words at all.  I'm guessing that I was a sight reader who was never taught anything but basic phonics, and I memorized spelling words like phone numbers - just a string of letters.  BUT I could still read without knowing how to pronounce the words -- I could understand the isolated words, even if I could not say them.

 

The bigger problem was that I could make no sense of the concepts in  complicated sentences.  I could read them over and over and they still did not make any sense. And I certainly could not make sense of many complicated sentences built into a paragraph.  It was just a serious problem with reading comprehension. 

 

And what I want to stress to some of the parents here is that comprehension of low level material (e.g., 8th grade novels/non-fiction) did not translate into a linear increase in ability to comprehend ever higher levels of material (12th grade, college level, grad level).  It was just a long hard slog all the way up.  Year after year, all the way until about age 22 or 23.  I will say it again, for me all levels of reading were equally difficult to master.

 

Yes, I earned a PhD.  But finally reading my first novel at age 12 was not the end of the struggle.  It was just the beginning of an additional 10 year journey.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Melissa in Australia]

My dyslexic husband (with a master's degree in Mathematics and a computer engineering job) has always said that he is not learning disabled--he just thinks differently.  It has been a total advantage for him in his career as a problem solver.  He often visualizes things his colleagues miss.

 

But thank goodness for spell check!  He'll never understand ie/ei spellings--despite his mathematical prowess.

 

My husband's first grade teacher called him stupid because he could not see the difference between b's and d's. I always chuckle because he later did a master's thesis in topology where rotations don't matter--b's and d's are equivalent.  While he was not homeschooled, his mother was a counselor--today's version is a reading specialist--who intervened.

 

Just wanted to mention a long term success story...

another success story.

 My oldest son didn't read until 10, and did his first essay for an university course when 16, started his degree when 17 m, and is currently sitting his final second year exams for Aerospace Engineering. He is currently in the honors group of students.

 

It was very, very hard work getting him there. I had to scribe nearly all written work for him until he was about 15.

HIs success gives me the strength to continue the endless battle with his 2 younger siblings that have Dyslexia.

[Melissa in Australia]

One more thing, for anyone who suspects their child is dyslexic, do not be afraid of that diagnosis.  Read the Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide.  Read the Mislabeled Child by the same authors.  Do research in the scientific community, not the educational community.  Dyslexia means you may have deficits in some areas, but that is only because there are strengths, sometimes tremendous strengths, in other areas.  Areas, unfortunately, that usually remain untapped in elementary school but can come to be extremely valued in adulthood if given the chance to find those areas of strength.  If our educational system were set up to recognize this fact (and I do mean fact), then the diagnosis of dyslexia might very well be sought out, not shunned and children with this strength could be nurtured the way their brains were meant to function.  

 

It is suspected that nearly a quarter of our population is dyslexic.  There is a very large percentage of the dyslexic population occupying jobs in engineering, neuro-sciences, entrepreneurship roles, they frequently are great inventors, pilots, architects, etc....  not because they overcame dyslexia, but because their brains think differently and we need that difference.  The compact disk?  Invented by a dyslexic.  Because he overcame his dyslexia?  No, because his brain processes information differently.  He saw the record player and hated the sound of the needle on the record.  He determined that there must be a way to transfer the music without the source being touched.  He saw the end product long before the technology existed to make it happen, but he saw it quite clearly then worked hard to create what he saw in his head.  The invention of the CD led to the DVD and the Blu Ray player and eventually no need for a disk at all for transfer and storage of data.  Think how that one invention has changed our world?  But he was thought of as stupid in school.  

 

We need to change our definition of intelligence, open our minds to the possibility that there are MANY kinds of intelligence and our school system needs, somehow, to allow those differences and to nurture them, not to only educate through a very narrow lens.  A very large percentage of my family are teachers.  A diagnosis of dyslexia was only seen as a deficit and defined only by the weaknesses, not any of the strengths.  We need a better path.

:iagree:

just about all inventions were made by Dyslexics.  Give me a list of entrepreneurs and I will show you a list of people with the gift of Dyslexia. Look at a list of famous people from history - Dyslexic

[Melissa in Australia]

Yes, sounding out words.  I did not realize that I could not sound out words until I taught my first boy to read when I was 35. I had no idea that oa said the long o sound, that ea said the long e sound,  or that ow said ow or long o, etc.  Just no idea.  none. Interestingly, I did not really understand that you could sound out words at all.  I'm guessing that I was a sight reader who was never taught anything but basic phonics, and I memorized spelling words like phone numbers - just a string of letters.  BUT I could still read without knowing how to pronounce the words -- I could understand the isolated words, even if I could not say them.

 

The bigger problem was that I could make no sense of the concepts in  complicated sentences.  I could read them over and over and they still did not make any sense. And I certainly could not make sense of many complicated sentences built into a paragraph.  It was just a serious problem with reading comprehension. 

 

And what I want to stress to some of the parents here is that comprehension of low level material (e.g., 8th grade novels/non-fiction) did not translate into a linear increase in ability to comprehend ever higher levels of material (12th grade, college level, grad level).  It was just a long hard slog all the way up.  Year after year, all the way until about age 22 or 23.  I will say it again, for me all levels of reading were equally difficult to master.

 

Yes, I earned a PhD.  But finally reading my first novel at age 12 was not the end of the struggle.  It was just the beginning of an additional 10 year journey.

 

Ruth in NZ

 While I only have mild Dyslexia and could read at a young age, the bolded is correct for me. took me years to work out some words that I knew in their written form ( and even knew the meaning of) were the same words that I knew in spoken form, I didn't know how to pronounce the word, or how to sound them out.

[cjgrubbs]

This thread is enlightening and encouraging for a mom who has had two "late" readers - according to public school, both not becoming fluent enough to read sentences until the end of 2nd grade - and now I'm teaching my 3rd child, who is even more delayed.  When I began working with my children on reading, I realized that I really knew little phonics.  I couldn't quote or apply any of the rules.  I just always knew how to read - my mom says she always let me watch Sesame Street and I was reading when I started 4 year old preschool (which she paid for me to go bc I was driving her crazy talking constantly!) She says she never one time had to work with me on letters, words or spelling and even math.  Teaching my children has been humbling because I realize now how easy things came for me and my kids have all struggled with various aspects of reading and math. 

 

I have despaired quite a bit this year with my 3rd boy - he wants to read so badly but he struggles so much.  We're doing some Vision Therapy now and starting over again on Phonics using Phonics Pathways to get him blending more efficiently.  This post is very encouraging to me!  Thanks for sharing all your advice and stories, ladies!

[Pen]

 

 

I have despaired quite a bit this year with my 3rd boy - he wants to read so badly but he struggles so much. 

 

 

I think this is another key to trying to figure out when there is a problem or not.  There may be some children who do not try to read or gravitate to other things because it is hard, so not obviously struggling is not necessarily a sign that all is well in a late reader, and if fact, I know someone who even appears to be a reader, but is struggling at a comprehension level.    However, the opposite, wanting to read, and struggling would definitely be a way to be alerted to a problem of some sort.

 

I am glad you are finding ways to help all of your children!

[Pen]

Yes, sounding out words.  I did not realize that I could not sound out words until I taught my first boy to read when I was 35. I had no idea that oa said the long o sound, that ea said the long e sound,  or that ow said ow or long o, etc.  Just no idea.  none. Interestingly, I did not really understand that you could sound out words at all.  I'm guessing that I was a sight reader who was never taught anything but basic phonics, and I memorized spelling words like phone numbers - just a string of letters.  BUT I could still read without knowing how to pronounce the words -- I could understand the isolated words, even if I could not say them.

 

The bigger problem was that I could make no sense of the concepts in  complicated sentences.  I could read them over and over and they still did not make any sense. And I certainly could not make sense of many complicated sentences built into a paragraph.  It was just a serious problem with reading comprehension. 

 

And what I want to stress to some of the parents here is that comprehension of low level material (e.g., 8th grade novels/non-fiction) did not translate into a linear increase in ability to comprehend ever higher levels of material (12th grade, college level, grad level).  It was just a long hard slog all the way up.  Year after year, all the way until about age 22 or 23.  I will say it again, for me all levels of reading were equally difficult to master.

 

Yes, I earned a PhD.  But finally reading my first novel at age 12 was not the end of the struggle.  It was just the beginning of an additional 10 year journey.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Thank you!  This is important to keep in mind.

 

With this background and experience, do you have any suggestions for those of us whose children are apparently now reading well, but where there still may be the sort of situation you describe above?

 

Also, do you have any suggestions for getting children to continue to participate in reading out loud so that it is easier to tell if they are actually reading well, or have stealth issues lurking?

 

I know nearly all of us who do a lot of reading do end up with words we know in written form but not necessarily as matched to a spoken counterpart.  But I think there are degrees that get to the point where it is a serious impediment.

 

This morning my son was reading some history out loud to me, and was happy to ask me how to say "Aguinaldo" recognizing that it was not English, however, after I corrected "Asiatic" and "Dewey" on the same page, and perhaps same paragraph, he left in a huff, saying he would read to himself.  We may need a new level of reading practice, I think, though we are beyond any reading "program" at this point.

[Pen]

This is the link I refered to that was going around FB a couple of weeks ago.  It's all studies about academic readiness and age as related to a movement in the UK called "Too Much Too Soon."  The link describes lots of research, but the study I remembered (turned out it was in NZ, not the UK) is toward the end:

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/school-starting-age-the-evidence

 

I'm rotten at keeping links like this, so I can't find older ones...  Alas.  But I've seen others.  Another study I saw was about finding those "right books" the way the OP described - it basically said that letting kids pick their own books for summer reading leads to more gains on reading scores than giving them "good" books.

 

Like I said, I don't think it's black and white "early academics" or "late academics" - learning through play is important and there are structured ways to make that more effective and useful for young kids.  The countries that delay academics don't delay learning and actually do a great deal for kids and learning.  And kids ready to read should never be held back.  One of my twins was ready at age 5 and was happily reading Henry and Mudge by the end of kindergarten.  His brother wasn't really reading for another year and a half, so not a late reader, but not early either.  And both of them have remained slow readers, but I can see that they're catching up - I suspect in a couple of years (hey, by age 11, as in the study I linked above) that they'll be pretty even with their peers in every way.

 

Another thing I thought of that might interest people in this thread (and their new readers!) is the book Thank You, Mr. Falker by Patricia Polacco.  It's a true story - the kids and I had the privilege of hearing her talk about this book a couple of years ago and it was very moving.  Basically, she didn't learn to read until she was 14 years old (the character in the book is younger, to make it more believable and relateable for today's kids).  She was dyslexic and it was undiagnosed for years (and unknown back when she was young).  One really amazing teacher realized that she was faking reading and knew about dyslexia and taught her himself and the book tells that story.

 

There is also in recent fiction a book whose title I cannot recall, but the cover picture is of a child with a brown paper bag over his head, maybe someone will know what I mean.   Anyway, there too there is a child who is discovered by a teacher not to be able to read and helped to do so, though it is only one part of the story.

 

When my son was going to Waldorf school which has late academics I read a bunch of things on studies like the above showing that later starts might be as good or perhaps better than earlier.  But "early" was generally age 4-5, and late generally around 7, as in the link you have above.   And while the overall statistics do not seem to favor a start at 4-5 necessarily, that is not the same as saying that for any particular child who has already started a reading program, showing signs of difficulty at age 8 is likely to get to the same place as a teenager in reading as someone who is sailing along will be as a teenager in reading.  I don't know what is in place in NZ or the UK to help someone who shows difficulties when reading is started whether at 5 or at 7. Do they step in with help, or say "wait and see" probably just a late bloomer at that point?  Maybe Ruth or someone else writing from NZ, UK etc. would know.

 

I am also not sure that someone who is not reading due to a preference for being out on a tractor is the same as someone who has tried hard to read and can't seem to get it.

[lewelma]

With this background and experience, do you have any suggestions for those of us whose children are apparently now reading well, but where there still may be the sort of situation you describe above?

 

 

Nonfiction:

 

IMHO, the main thing to do is check if your student is still comprehending each year as the level of difficulty increases.  Continue to check on comprehension using summaries, outlines, and discussion for each subject every 6 months or so. If the comprehension is poor for the next level, then you need to work on it every week until the material can be understood. In addition, make sure that you up the level of the material every year so that by the time they hit 9th grade, they are at a 9th grade level for *both* fiction and nonfiction.  And then every year after that, you up the level so that college is not a huge jump.

 

I also think that modeling is very important.  Pick a difficult essay (federalist papers or Emerson or something) and work through the ideas *with* your student.  Discuss what you are thinking after every sentence and then after every paragraph.  Model *how* good readers connect ideas, refer back to early paragraph, predict what is coming up.  Sometimes students assume that good readers read linearly through the argument and that is just not true.  You need to model.  Then have your students talk you through their own thought processes as they read a difficult passage. 

 

Finally, I do think that you need to teach some way for the student to categorize arguments.  The common topics: definition, cause/effect, circumstance, testimony, comparison; or formal logic; or both!  And after this material is learned, you need to *apply* it to ever increasingly difficult nonfiction.  You do this through a 3 step process: 1)  describing what *you* see - modeling, 2) having them describe what they see while you listen and comment, and 3) then each independently processing the arguments and comparing thoughts after 30 minutes.  Step by step is the key!

 

Fiction:

 

For fiction, I needed to be taught to take some notes.  Who are the characters?  What other names do they go by? What are they doing and why?  Just little notes, but even today I cannot read a book with greater than 2 characters without a notes sheet.

 

Textbooks:

 

Finally, I have written extensively about learning to read textbooks here: Developing advanced reading skills

 

Reading outloud:

 

Once a month for an hour I think would be enough.  It is insulting to teens to read outloud and be evaluated/corrected!  Instead I would focus on reading comprehension.

 

HTH,

 

Ruth in NZ