A spin off of the "how can I fall in love"- kids and living somewhere they dislike

[Sisyphus]

I thought about posting on the other thread, but it's sort of different, so I will start my own.

 

We moved back to the us last year, and I am pretty un happy with where we live. We lived here in the past (first time ever moving to a place twice in 25 years!) and I just dislike the area immensely. High COL, bad traffic, uptight people, not beautiful geographically though not as terrible as some places we have lived. dh will change jobs in 2 years, and I am hoping for a job overseas, preferably in one of the Asian countries we lived in before.

 

My sons also hope this, and dislike this area. To be honest, they dislike America. They have friends, but I can tell that they, like me, are sort of in a "holding pattern" waiting to move away. It worries me- I am wondering if my attitude is affecting them, if they are so used to a transient lifestyle they can't help it, if they will ever be able to feel comfortable anywhere. it's made us a very tight k nit family, for sure, they are each others best friends, but as they get older (15 and 12 now) I wonder if this is really a good thing. Due to living far away, we aren't terribly close with extended family- I know they feel out of place at family gatherings, and family expectations for them and our lives are wildly disparate with the realities of our lives. Family truly does not "get" the kids, (or us, really) because they have all lived in one place for ever. So even in our extended families, the boys are "outsiders".

 

Is this a valid worry? That my boys don't seem to form attachments to people and places? That they really don't like their own country and would prefer to live in another? Seems wrong somehow, but I can't really articulate why. they are total outsiders there, too, obviously not of the majority ethnicity, so it isn't a matter of going back where they fit in, but rather just liking the lifestyle, food, etc better. Friends and family really don't seem to matter to them- I've asked many times "wouldn't you miss-----?what about the dance studio/co op/band class? " but they say no, and don't seem to be making friends on a deep level because I think in their minds, they are already assuming they will be gone in 2 years.

 

In a way it's sort of stupid of me to be a parent of a 15 and 12 year old, who have lived in 6 states and 3 countries, and been out of the us for 7 years, and just now realizing that has some effect on a kid. They don't seem bothered by it, even the family stuff doesn't really bother them, per se, they just notice it but are quite mature in that they know it can't be helped really. I think that is what bothers me- in my mind, kids this age would be sad to move and leave their friends, but my kids are so used to it they just expect it and it's really not something they seem to care about. They care more about living some where they like better.

 

I read a bit a long time ago on 3rd culture kids, but as it was just 7 years, not their whole lives (though to a 4 year old, I guess it may seem like it) they lived away. I didn't think we fit the profile. But maybe not?

 

This is so rambling! Sorry about that. I've just been concerned about whether or not the seeming inability to form attachments to places or people outside our family is normal for this kind of kid. will they grow up to be transient wanderers? Is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't even know what I'm asking.

[Rosie_0801]

It's ok for them to have different values to other people. That's a natural consequence of being alive, I think.

[Snickerdoodle]

I just try to stress that kids have very different life experiences.   Once upon a time, mine were shocked that a friend had lived in the same house his whole (albeit young) life.  Such a concept was unfathomable.   

 

I totally understand that feeling that you are in a holding pattern.

[elegantlion]

My son disliked where we used to live. Overall, it was a bad move on our part, ended badly, and left a bad taste in his mouth for that area. Some of it was due to a friendship fallout that was not due to location, but in context it made living there harder. We moved back closer to family, but even here it doesn't feel like home. My parents and my son are very close, they're our only family here and honestly, the only reason we're still living here. We like our house, but the town doesn't feel like home, it feels like a place to land. Dh and I are separated, but we both have huge wanderlust and generally move about every 5 years (usually around the same area). It's been 3 and I'm already getting antsy, but due to life changes will be here for at least until ds graduates, maybe longer. Ds wants to try living in Japan. We've never been there, he's just fascinated by the country. 

 

Do I worry that my son doesn't have that attachment? Not really. I think he's going to be a fascinating adult, your kids sound that way too. 

 

I had huge desire to travel as a kid, my family was the model of stability - keep the same house, same car, same job, etc.... I found it boring. So, while dh and I traveled some, we followed the status quo of house, car, baby, mortgage, trying to find roots. It still feels stifling. I sometimes wish I could feel comfortable rooting myself as some of my high school friends have, but I just don't.  I would have made a great "transient wanderer" had I had the guts to pursue that in my younger years. I believe the world is out there to be explored. 

 

If your kids are happy and content with who they are, I think that is priceless. 

[Amira]

I get it. Living a transient life, especially an international one, definitely affects my children. But I don't think it will ruin them, it'll just give them a different perspective. Just like homeschooling does. It sounds like your children are capable of forming attachments to places outside the US and that's okay.

 

FWIW, I grew up quite happy in the US but I would always prefer to live in another country and I feel lucky that's worked out for me so often.

[PeacefulChaos]

I would say that as long as they are still *capable* of forming attachments to people (deep friendships, for example), there is nothing to worry about.

I didn't have the type of childhood they are having, but I was an outsider with my extended family too, or at least I felt like one - because of both living somewhere states away from the entire rest of the family and because of my circumstances/family history.  In the end, that's not important. I still have great memories with them even if we didn't form any super close bonds.

[Kim in Appalachia]

You are raising 3rd culture kids.  There's nothing wrong with that, but you should realize that's what it is.  And the only reason for that is as they get older and are having a difficult time connecting or fitting in in the US (in college, for example) they should know why and be able to seek out resources to help them.  

 

They may get to a point that it upsets them that they can't connect well with others, or that they lack understanding/connection with family.  They will may need help processing that. 

 

It really depends on the kid.  Some kids handle it fine, others struggle a bit.  

 

Don't sweat it, but do be aware.  And I would try to make the most of your time with family, even if it's difficult.  

[DawnM]

I would get some books on Third Culture Kids and how they think.  I grew up overseas.   I have a lot of baggage that goes along with that.  And I say "baggage" tongue in cheek.  I just think differently than most people.  I don't feel comfortable in more homogenous areas, which my area tends to be.  That is one reason I loved LA so much.   Cultures and peoples from all over the world all over the place.  

 

http://www.amazon.com/Third-Culture-Kids-Growing-Revised/dp/1857885252/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382614166&sr=8-1&keywords=third+culture+kids

 

Excellent book.  Much of it has to do with Missionary Kids, but the ideas are the same.  I know both of the authors personally.  One has since passed away, but the book is still relevant.

 

Dawn

[marbel]

We also moved to an area we don't really like, after living in someplace we loved.  When my kids were 8 and 10, we moved from Oregon to Pennsylvania for my husband to go to school for a career change.  It was going to be temporary; we thought we would move either back home or somewhere else after he graduated (4 year program).  Six years later, we are still here; he is employed and there is no move in sight. 

 

None of us have formed close friendships but it's hardest on the kids.  They have met kids in our neighborhood but have not formed friendships for a few reasons.  Most kids go to school, and my kids don't, so... out of sight, out of mind.  This neighborhood is also very stable (I  almost typed stagnant, which would be mean of me); everyone has lived here forever and has lots of extended family around.  So we are outsiders.  (In my son's Boy Scout troop he is the only kid who has not lived here all his life, and most of the parents have lived here all their lives too.)   But there are also compatibility issues; the kids we meet seem to mostly be very into sports and my kids just aren't.  The girls my daughter's age are likely to be outside shooting baskets, and not interested in talking about books, going someplace to take photos and work on their photography skills, go to the art museum.   We don't seem to fit in with the homeschoolers either somehow.  

 

I think my kids will come into their own in college and adulthood, when they are around people with more varying experience.  At least, that's what I'm counting on. 

 

:grouphug:

[Kate in Arabia]

I'm in pretty much the exact same situation; my boys are 15 (almost 16) and 12, and my daughter 8.  We have lived here since my oldest was 6.  They still talk about how they want to move back to the US, but I think they're basing that primarily on summer trips, where it's all vacation time and playing and eating favorite things only and fun, kwim?  It's not how reality would be if we were living there. 

 

I kind of look at it the same way I do at homeschooling.  It is a different life experience from many other people, that doesn't make it bad, just different.  I went to small, private Catholic schools my whole lower education career, then went to a huge, public university.  I learned that my insular community was not the experience the majority of my peers had, and it was eye opening.  So I think, at least to some extent, many people go through this time where they feel out of sorts when they go into something new, kwim?

 

I also have the added complication of a different religion than the rest of my extended family, so that puts us even further outside the familial culture, and that of the majority of our society.  I was reminded of this in particular this past summer; I was having a girls' night out with old high school friends, and listening to them talk about their kids who are similar ages, their life experiences -- while similar to what I had growing up -- are completely, completely different from my kids.  Just not even in the same spheres.  It doesn't make one better or worse, just really different.  And it was a bit of a jarring experience for me, frankly, being reminded of that.

[Laura Corin]

I suspect that they do fit the profile of third culture kids - after all, they have lived overseas for as long as they remember.  It might be worth doing the reading again, so that you can focus on the positives of how they have been brought up.  

 

How was their transition?  Do you think that they had a good chance to say good bye and begin again?  One thing that helped my boys was making a photo album for each about their experiences in China.  It validated their former lives, gave them something to dream and possibly grieve over, and allowed them to move on.

 

L

 

 

[JessReplanted]

I agree with the others that you are raising 3rd culture kids. There are a lot of amazing advantages to that, and also some things of concern to watch for.

 

We have moved around quite a bit in the last 4-5 years (all in the U.S.). It has been a hard adjustment for me, and I know that my attitude definitely influences how my kids handle it. We try to focus on enjoying the good things about where we live now - rather than how much we miss other people & things from where we lived before. We have made it a habit of daily naming off the things we are thankful for.

 

We also plan to move again at some point. Knowing that we're not really settled makes it difficult to 'settle'. But, I try to remind myself (and the kids) that if we're always looking forward to what is next, then we will miss all of the gifts of "Now".

[J-rap]

Our experience is different, but maybe has some similarities.  We have had the same house for over 20 years now, in the same small town.  So, that part is very different!  But, we've been here back and forth over the years so many times, I've lost count.  We're sometimes here, sometimes not.  We've temporarily moved somewhere else (due to job and health) many times, returning here for weekend visits, or most recently -- after being gone for 1.5 years.  My kids have immersed themselves in the community, and then left for a year, only to come back again for another year, and leave again.  They've mostly been homeschooled, although for one year they went to school in a completely different city.  We've taken many month-long trips where my husband was doing business and we were homeschooling on the road.  We usually don't even put our suitcases away.  Once our children graduated from high school, they continued that kind of life.  My son lived in Europe, then NYC, then Toronto, then NYC, and now in our present state -- but only temporarily -- all in the period of three years.  One of my daughters, upon graduating, lived in Minnesota, France, Africa, Northern Ireland, and back in Minnesota again all in the period of three years.  They've all been living like that.

 

So, what are they like.  They are very, very close to each other -- best friends, and I love that.  They are very close to us.  Only two of them were ever really part of a large group of close friends, but that didn't happen until their junior or even senior year of high school.  They are confident and content.  They prefer one or two close friends rather than a big group, but they get along with almost everybody.  What they do is far more important than having a big social life.  When they come "home" -- which they love to do, it's not to hang out with their friends (although they might now and then); it's to be home with each other, and "experiencing" home.

 

I think they roll with the punches very easily.  Change doesn't phase them at all, even extreme changes.    Whether they have a lot or a little, it doesn't seem to matter.  They are happy.  I'm sure they've been in places that weren't the greatest, but as long as the home life is stable and positive -- and you can help them focus on the positive -- they can learn to be content almost anywhere.  I think that's a real gift!  (But I also think you can still be antsy and eager to move on, and that's okay too!  :))

 

I believe they have a unique perspective on things, as does anyone who grows up in slightly different circumstances than most.  It's not a bad thing.  Two of them are married now, and they have very close, happy marriages. 

 

I don't know if there is anything helpful in there or not!  I hope so.  I mostly wanted to emphasize that kids with unique growing up years can turn out fine, and offer a different perspective to the world.  It takes all types!

[Upward Journey]

We also plan to move again at some point. Knowing that we're not really settled makes it difficult to 'settle'. But, I try to remind myself (and the kids) that if we're always looking forward to what is next, then we will miss all of the gifts of "Now".

Wise words!

[DawnM]

I saw this posted on FB by another TCK and thought I would post.  It made me cry.

 

http://michelephoenix.com/2011/01/the-lies-mks-believe-everybody-always-leaves/

 

Her blog has some more things as well.

[MBM]

I think what you want to watch out for specifically is if your boys are shutting off feelings of sadness, loss or anger. Why it can be problematic is that coping strategies that work well for some experiences in childhood don't necessarily work well later in life.

 

Another thing to watch is the relationship between your children and their relatives, particularly what your children think of the relationship. How your children view personal situations has an effect on their developing internal explanatory style -- how they define and explain to themselves why they experience a particular event. Explanatory style is the quick, automatic thinking we have about situations. For example, a divorced child whose non-custodial parent doesn't see or reach out to him, could translate that to mean that there is something about him (the child) that makes the non-custodial parent not want him -- "I'm unlovable, not good enough, flawed, etc." Explanatory style develops in childhood, literally shaping the brain, and will remain the same throughout life. It can be changed but not without intervention -- not difficult stuff, btw. Your kids might have a very healthy way of viewing life. It's just something I'm mentioning because of what you said in your post.

 

Two books that you might like are

 

Mindsight by Dan Siegel

The Opimistic Child by Martin Selgiman

 

I moved a lot as a kid and can relate to what your kids are experiencing. It's good that you are so intuned and concerned about how they are reacting. I don't really know what the answer is, if there is one, but the two books linked above might give you some better insight.

[Camelfeet]

I was a 3rd culture kid as well, having grown up as a Canadian in Germany and moving to Canada for the first time as a young teen.  Then I moved around Canada quite a bit.  I like the person I am and I was a happy child.  I like that my experiences were so much more varied than my husband's, who lived in one house his entire life.  I've actively sought out expat experiences because of my childhood - I crave newness, and perhaps that makes me a "transient wanderer". For me the benefits of exploring other cultures, travelling, and learning other languages outweighed the drawbacks of not having a solid base in one location and a clique of friends I've known since elementary school.  I wanted to give my children experiences that were similar to my own because I feel I was a lucky kid.   

 

My kids have been overseas for two years now.  We have no plans of going back to Canada for at least another 5-6 years, and when we leave this country we may move to someplace that isn't Canada.  My kids alternate between loving it and hating it.  When we first moved here there was some adjustment for my oldest, especially since we went from PS to homeschooling.  The youngest now doesn't remember living in Canada at all - she only knows the UAE. The oldest now loves living here, loves her friends, loves homeschooling, loves the lifestyle... but gets sentimental/excited about visiting her grandparents in Canada in the summer.  

 

Nothing you mention really seems all that bad - why should we be attached to places?  What makes the home country/state/city so special that we ought to feel automatic love for it and like being there more than anywhere else?  I love Canada, but I'm not interested in settling down just yet.  And when I do settle down it may not be in a part of Canada that I have already lived in.

 

 

 

 

[freesia]

I don't have a lot of advice, but I have taught third culture kids, and many of my friends were tcks. When I was doing some training before going overseas, they told us that the ages 9-11 were they ages that kids would be the most affected by living overseas. That fits your boys, right?.

 

However, I have lived in 4 countries as an adult (3 other than the US). I do not feel like I fit in here in the US. But, I don't fit in other places, either. Now, I could be so affected bc my parents had lived overseas before I was born, and I lived in a city full of folks who had lived overseas so my worldview growing up was very TCK. But, dh who only lived in the rural US before living in Hungary for 3 years, also feels this way.

 

And you know what? It's okay. We gravitate towards other folks who have lived overseas or are from other countries. It's almost funny how we'll hit it off with people and then later find out their background. In other words, they will be fine. Really.

[Cammie]

I'm raising third culture kids in India.  We moved here when they were 5 and 1 and now they are 13 and 8!  India is home.  No doubt about it.  But they love the US too and look forward to visits there.  I think it might be hard for them to adjust to living in the US - as they really have no experience with it.

 

I have friends whose kids have lived all over the world.  Recently they tried a move back to the US and it was a disaster!  The kids hated the schools, they hated the way kids sports teams were run...they just didn't fit in.  So the family picked up and moved back overseas.  It is a different lifestyle and if it is what your kids know, it is where they will be most comfortable.

 

I wouldn't worry - your kids just have unique experiences and personal histories!