Are they saying what I think they're saying, right?! UPDATE #42

[BlsdMama]

UPDATE IN POST #42.

 

 

 

 

Is this saying that an independent homeschooler must also take the G.E.D?  In this day and age?

 

http://www.luther.edu/admissions/apply/homeschool/

 

Tell me I'm translating this wrong please.

[KarenNC]

That's the way I read it, that unless you are working under "a diploma-granting organization" you must provide GED results.

[TranquilMind]

Is this saying that an independent homeschooler must also take the G.E.D?  In this day and age?

 

http://www.luther.edu/admissions/apply/homeschool/

 

Tell me I'm translating this wrong please.

Nope.  You are correct. GED required as well as a transcript, unless you are a "Diploma granting organization". 

[Elisabet1]

I would not even consider this college as a result. You are already giving SAT or ACT scores, a GED would be insulting and way below the level of college readiness. This is just a huge blaring sign of what they think of home schoolers.

[regentrude]

I would not even consider this college as a result. You are already giving SAT or ACT scores, a GED would be insulting and way below the level of college readiness. This is just a huge blaring sign of what they think of home schoolers.

 

This. It would automatically eliminate the college from our consideration. There are plenty of colleges that do not require a GED. Getting the GED would cause life long disadvantages for the student. No  way.

[Belacqua]

Is this one of those situations where it might be worth contacting somebody on the admissions committee? If you really like the school (aside from the GED requirement), maybe you can offer them other scores and validation and they'd waive the GED?

 

I agree that it would sour me on the school, though. We knocked a college from our list when we saw their requirements for homeschoolers. They didn't ask for a GED, but they did come across as thinking homeschooled students were trying to put one over on them. No, thanks!

[BlsdMama]

Is this one of those situations where it might be worth contacting somebody on the admissions committee? If you really like the school (aside from the GED requirement), maybe you can offer them other scores and validation and they'd waive the GED?

 

I agree that it would sour me on the school, though. We knocked a college from our list when we saw their requirements for homeschoolers. They didn't ask for a GED, but they did come across as thinking homeschooled students were trying to put one over on them. No, thanks!

 

This is my concern.  I think I'll call them today and see what I can find out directly from them and ask them to reconsider their position.  I have a few other questions I need to ask as well.

 

Yes, it's Ana's top choice currently.  Think of it as a mini St. Olaf's and closer to family.  She really doesn't want to go to school "away" and this is the closest compromise we can discover, but I don't want her taking the GED.  Sincerely, that would be such an incredible insult.

[snowbeltmom]

If this is a college one of your kids in interested in, I would contact the admissions office and clarify whether or not they actually require the GED from homeschoolers.  There have been other cases where the admissions page was poorly written and even though it appeared that the college required the GED from homeschoolers, that was not actually the case. 

 

If this college does, in fact, require the GED, I would inform them that the GED is taken by students who do not finish high school, and since your child did finish high school, he will not be taking the GED.  I would also point out that the vast majority of homeschoolers would be insulted by any college that required them to take the GED and would never consider applying to their institution. 

[Hunter's Moon]

Like snowbeltmom said, I would contact the admissions office. However, through my own experiences, I have learned to take their website at its word. 

 

A state Uni requires a GED for homeschooled students. I called to clarify and was told this was not the case. After submitting my application (and the $25 fee) and being contacted to submit my GED results, I called again and this time spoke with a different counselor. She said the GED was required. I got a letter from the school dept stating a GED should not be required, that I had met all requirements and had shown my work, but I was still told a GED was required. 

 

They were immediately taken off of my list. I am not into playing games and proving that my "mommy grades" were real when I was also taking DE classes and getting A's in those. 

[Myra]

Also.....there was another thread here not so long ago that mentioned that the GED itself is changing by the end of this year.  That might affect your decision, if you decide to go the GED route after all, of when to take the test.

 

Myra

[Tsuga]

Sorry to intrude, but I know a number of people who worked very hard throughout school but had to take the GED due to problems at the end (moving, illness, etc.).

 

While I appreciate that it may be intended as a slight by the university, I'm really disappointed to see so many people here treating it like something that doesn't require work.

 

It's merely an alternative to a diploma for people who couldn't attend classes before leaving high school, so that they don't have to go back to school a year later, or to allow people to finish high school without commuting too far, or giving up medical care, or whatever. One does have to study for it.

 

The lack of respect towards general educational development certificate is depressing. Of all people, homeschoolers should realize how many different paths there are towards getting an education.

 

"Getting the GED would cause life long disadvantages for the student."

 

Getting a GED doesn't go on your "permanent record". If you take it, you never have to write it down again. It's like the ASVAB (military test). You don't want to write down that you took it? Don't. They don't tattoo the results on your forehead. Award your own diploma, take whatever tests you please, and move on.

 

If you don't want to take it, don't. But please, do not insult the many hard working, intelligent individuals who have taken that route. It's really unnecessary.

[snowbeltmom]

A state Uni requires a GED for homeschooled students. I called to clarify and was told this was not the case. After submitting my application (and the $25 fee) and being contacted to submit my GED results, I called again and this time spoke with a different counselor. She said the GED was required. I got a letter from the school dept stating a GED should not be required, that I had met all requirements and had shown my work, but I was still told a GED was required. 

 

They were immediately taken off of my list. I am not into playing games and proving that my "mommy grades" were real when I was also taking DE classes and getting A's in those. 

 

What state university was this?

[Hunter's Moon]

What state university was this?

 

UMass Amherst. I am unsure of their 4 other locations, but I know Amherst constantly gave me the run around. 

[Hunter's Moon]

Sorry to intrude, but I know a number of people who worked very hard throughout school but had to take the GED due to problems at the end (moving, illness, etc.).

 

While I appreciate that it may be intended as a slight by the university, I'm really disappointed to see so many people here treating it like something that doesn't require work.

 

It's merely an alternative to a diploma for people who couldn't attend classes before leaving high school, so that they don't have to go back to school a year later, or to allow people to finish high school without commuting too far, or giving up medical care, or whatever. One does have to study for it.

 

The lack of respect towards general educational development certificate is depressing. Of all people, homeschoolers should realize how many different paths there are towards getting an education.

 

"Getting the GED would cause life long disadvantages for the student."

 

Getting a GED doesn't go on your "permanent record". If you take it, you never have to write it down again. It's like the ASVAB (military test). You don't want to write down that you took it? Don't. They don't tattoo the results on your forehead. Award your own diploma, take whatever tests you please, and move on.

 

If you don't want to take it, don't. But please, do not insult the many hard working, intelligent individuals who have taken that route. It's really unnecessary.

 

My sister took the GED after dropping out of high school. I completely understand how much time and effort it takes. However, I completed all of my state's requirements for graduation, and I actually went beyond those by taking DE classes at the local CC. To be told that my work wasn't good enough, that I had to waste my time and money taking a test that I should not have to take in the first place was a slap in the face. 

 

Of course there are different paths to getting an education. My parents and I chose homeschooling for the last two years of my high school education. We did not choose the GED. 

[snowbeltmom]

Getting a GED doesn't go on your "permanent record". If you take it, you never have to write it down again. It's like the ASVAB (military test). You don't want to write down that you took it? Don't. They don't tattoo the results on your forehead. Award your own diploma, take whatever tests you please, and move on.

 

If you don't want to take it, don't. But please, do not insult the many hard working, intelligent individuals who have taken that route. It's really unnecessary.

 

Unless the situation has changed in the past 20 years, which is definitely possible, the GED does go on your "permanent record."

 

It is insulting to require a student who completed 4 years of high school to take the GED, when the GED, is by definition, a test taken by those who drop out of high school.

 

Unfortunately, the reality is that the GED could negatively impact a student's future career path, and I would never have one of my homeschooled graduates take the GED because of that.

 

 

[mathmarm]

The GED isn't a curse or some black mark that goes on your permanent record, with the results taped to your back. Please don't over react and scare one another and yourselves about taking it.

Its a test, it only matters once or twice. (usually in the backroom of an admissions process.) You aren't automatically obligated to put it on your resume or tell everyone who you want to impress with your academic credentials that you took it. **You do not HAVE to take it, of course, but don't get all dramatic about the idea of people taking it.**

 

 

Its funny because I have two very talented graduate students who, I only recently found out took the GED, one of them is getting their doctorate at the end of the semester. The other one is on track to get it by next December.

[creekland]

I would not even consider this college as a result. You are already giving SAT or ACT scores, a GED would be insulting and way below the level of college readiness. This is just a huge blaring sign of what they think of home schoolers.

Same here.  I'd call to double check as I've seen websites that appear to make things "necessary" when in reality other sources would suffice, but if they really insisted on a GED from a homeschooler, I'd drop them with no regrets.

 

It's merely an alternative to a diploma for people who couldn't attend classes before leaving high school, so that they don't have to go back to school a year later, or to allow people to finish high school without commuting too far, or giving up medical care, or whatever. One does have to study for it.

 

This is an entirely different situation and one for which the GED is intended.  The GED is NOT for those who have finished high school via homeschooling, esp when they have other substantiation for their mommy grades.  It is for those who, for one reason or another, dropped out of school before finishing.  They are not even close to the same scenario.

[Running the race]

Is this saying that an independent homeschooler must also take the G.E.D?  In this day and age?

 

http://www.luther.edu/admissions/apply/homeschool/

 

Tell me I'm translating this wrong please.

 

Can you be your own "diploma granting organization"?

[BlsdMama]

I, for the life of me, can't figure out why they would request BOTH. Obviously if you're sitting in an office with transcripts and SAT scored in hand, I fail to see how additional scores from the GED would provide any benefit or further information. :(

[snowbeltmom]

The GED isn't a curse or some black mark that goes on your permanent record, with the results taped to your back. Please don't over react and scare one another and yourselves about taking it.

Its a test, it only matters once or twice.

 

This is simply not true in all sitations.  Just as one example:  Upon graduating with an electrical engineering degree, a couple of my classmates joined the navy's nuclear program as officers.  At the time, I remember them commenting that had they taken the GED, they would not have been qualified to apply even despite the fact that they had a college degree.

 

It appears that the navy still has the same policy: http://www.navy.com/careers/nuclear-energy/nuclear-operations.html

Qualifications

You are required to be a U.S. citizen and less than 25 years old at the time of your enlistment. You must be a high school graduate with a diploma and with successful completion of one year of Algebra, and able to meet security clearance requirements.

 

The GED does close some doors.  Since I am unable to predict which doors my kids will want to open, they will not be taking the GED.

[Tsuga]

My sister took the GED after dropping out of high school. I completely understand how much time and effort it takes. However, I completed all of my state's requirements for graduation, and I actually went beyond those by taking DE classes at the local CC. To be told that my work wasn't good enough, that I had to waste my time and money taking a test that I should not have to take in the first place was a slap in the face. 

 

Of course there are different paths to getting an education. My parents and I chose homeschooling for the last two years of my high school education. We did not choose the GED. 

 

I guess I don't consider taking a standardized test to show that you've met the minimum requirements for graduation, to be a slap in the face. I worked hard at school and the PSAT and SAT were easy for me--but it wasn't a "slap in the face" to be asked to take them. What was I supposed to do, go to the university and say, "Look, I'm getting all As here-do you really need a test to prove that I can do it?"

 

When my ex-husband went into the military, he had almost finished two post-graduate degrees, but he didn't tell them that their aptitude test was a "slap in the face". My partner takes drug tests at his high-paid, professional job. His saying, "Obviously I'm performing so I shouldn't have to take a drug test" is not going to cut it.

 

Many hard-working foreign students, even those who completed their coursework in English, have to take the TEFL before attending university here. This even applies to post-graduate students who in some cases wrote a thesis in English!

 

The reason is that universities are in no way able to make a judgment based on a huge volume of personal history documents.

 

Standardized testing is a fact of life in a world of 7 billion people and an international education system. A GED is the only test we have to substitute for the myriad of standardized tests that children in the public and private school systems go through repeatedly. It's the best objective, detached, quantitative way we have to say, "You have these very basic skills."

 

To repeat myself, I don't think anyone should take a test they don't want to.

 

But I do not think it's insulting to say, "Getting a diploma or a GED from an accredited institution is a requirement" is an insult.

 

After all, they require the SAT or ACT, and nobody here is complaining abot that. The only difference is that the GED is skill and curriculum specific and the SAT judges college readiness and more abstract reasoning.

[Belacqua]

Can you be your own "diploma granting organization"?

 

Excellent point! Wouldn't a legal homeschool be just that?

[regentrude]

The lack of respect towards general educational development certificate is depressing. Of all people, homeschoolers should realize how many different paths there are towards getting an education.

 

"Getting the GED would cause life long disadvantages for the student."

 

Getting a GED doesn't go on your "permanent record". If you take it, you never have to write it down again. It's like the ASVAB (military test). You don't want to write down that you took it? Don't. They don't tattoo the results on your forehead. Award your own diploma, take whatever tests you please, and move on.

 

If you don't want to take it, don't. But please, do not insult the many hard working, intelligent individuals who have taken that route. It's really unnecessary.

 

I was not insulting anybody. The reason not to get the GED is precisely that it is stigmatized; I am not the one doing the stigmatizing, but I sure do not want a student who has graduated from homeschool high school to be viewed as somebody who dropped out of school.

 

If asked about the GED on an official form, the student would have to state the truth. He might not have the option to "not tell". So, he may incur disadvantages when it comes to scholarships or to rank/admission in the military where there are caps on GED recipient.

[Barbara H]

There is also the very practical consideration that many students applying to college are 17 years old and in quite a few states people under the age of 18 are not even permitted to take the GED.

[snowbeltmom]

After all, they require the SAT or ACT, and nobody here is complaining abot that. The only difference is that the GED is skill and curriculum specific and the SAT judges college readiness and more abstract reasoning.

 

I am not complaining about my kids having to take the SAT or ACT because the colleges require all high school students to submit those tests.  I do have a big problem with a college that requires ONLY homeschoolers to take the GED - a test for high school dropouts.  SAT II's and AP tests are a much better judge of college readiness, imo, than the GED.

 

[regentrude]

I guess I don't consider taking a standardized test to show that you've met the minimum requirements for graduation,...

 

A GED is the only test we have to substitute for the myriad of standardized tests that children in the public and private school systems go through repeatedly. It's the best objective, detached, quantitative way we have to say, "You have these very basic skills."

 

After all, they require the SAT or ACT, and nobody here is complaining abot that. The only difference is that the GED is skill and curriculum specific and the SAT judges college readiness and more abstract reasoning.

 

The big difference is that the ACT/SAT are required of every student  who is applying at an institution that requires those tests, not just of applicants belonging to a particular subgroup (italicized text added because my original statement was not precise enough; see following post).

 

If public school students are judged based on their performance on these tests (after all, the college has no information if, and how well, the students passed the "myriad of standardized tests in the school system", since those are for the school only), homeschoolers should be judged by that same standard as well.

 

A student can also demonstrate subject mastery by means of AP or SAT subject tests, which is required by some colleges, so the GED is not the only way.

[mathmarm]

The big difference is that the ACT/SAT are required of every student.

The ACT/SAT are a standard expectation for the majority of colleges and so they are taken by many students, but not every student.

[Corraleno]

But I do not think it's insulting to say, "Getting a diploma or a GED from an accredited institution is a requirement" is an insult.

 

It's insulting because the school requiring the GED is basically claiming that homeschooled students are not high school graduates, and must therefore take a test designed for high school dropouts. A homeschooler who has graduated high school in accordance with the laws of her state, who is providing ACT/SAT scores plus often AP scores and/or DE classes and other outside verification, should not be treated as a high school dropout. It is an insult to the student and to the parents who have the legal right in their state to graduate her.

 

Jackie

[Candid]

Sorry to intrude, but I know a number of people who worked very hard throughout school but had to take the GED due to problems at the end (moving, illness, etc.).

 

While I appreciate that it may be intended as a slight by the university, I'm really disappointed to see so many people here treating it like something that doesn't require work.

 

It's merely an alternative to a diploma for people who couldn't attend classes before leaving high school, so that they don't have to go back to school a year later, or to allow people to finish high school without commuting too far, or giving up medical care, or whatever. One does have to study for it.

 

The lack of respect towards general educational development certificate is depressing. Of all people, homeschoolers should realize how many different paths there are towards getting an education.

 

"Getting the GED would cause life long disadvantages for the student."

 

Getting a GED doesn't go on your "permanent record". If you take it, you never have to write it down again. It's like the ASVAB (military test). You don't want to write down that you took it? Don't. They don't tattoo the results on your forehead. Award your own diploma, take whatever tests you please, and move on.

 

If you don't want to take it, don't. But please, do not insult the many hard working, intelligent individuals who have taken that route. It's really unnecessary.

 

 

Unfortunately the GED is considered by many, many future destinations to be a down grade and having it at all can short circuit a career. 

 

Here's a story done recently by NPR on just this fact:

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/18/147015513/in-todays-economy-how-far-can-a-ged-take-you

 

 

 

The latest research, however, shows that people with GEDs are, in fact, no better off than dropouts when it comes to their chances of getting a good job.

 

Here's a question directed at military and GED:

 

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/f/faqged.htm

[creekland]

The ACT/SAT are a standard expectation for the majority of colleges and so they are taken by many students, but not every student.

They are taken by every student attending colleges that require them.  Does Luther require the GED of every student applying there?  If so, that would make more sense than just requiring it of homeschoolers.  Many public school grads aren't exactly up to snuff with their knowledge.

[regentrude]

The ACT/SAT are a standard expectation for the majority of colleges and so they are taken by many students, but not every student.

 

I was referring to students applying at a given institution. If University X requires the SAT or ACT, it usually does so of every applicant, not just of a particular subgroup.

 

Sorry for not phrasing more precisely. I have edited my post to make it absolutely clear what I am talking about - and what this IS about: college admission at a particular college that has different requirements for homeschooled applicants than for publicly schooled applicants.

 

 

[Tsuga]

Unfortunately the GED is considered by many, many future destinations to be a down grade and having it at all can short circuit a career. 

 

Here's a story done recently by NPR on just this fact:

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/18/147015513/in-todays-economy-how-far-can-a-ged-take-you

 

 

Here's a question directed at military and GED:

 

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/f/faqged.htm

 

Did you read the articles?

 

The story by NPR is about how far you can get with only a GED, having not finished high school coursework beyond the requirements. Yes, employers look at having only taken a test and not having finished coursework, as inferior to having finished coursework and gotten a college degree, particularly if you took some advanced classes in high school.

 

But they are not mutually exclusive.

 

The military story is about people who dropped out:

 

"Each of the services strictly limit the number of high school dropouts (which includes GED holders) who can enlist each year."

 

If you didn't drop out, then this article doesn't apply to you. If you dropped out of high school but went on to finish an associate's or bachelor's, then this article doesn't apply to you.

 

Again, it is people who have the entire extent of the GED as their proof of education, no homeschool coursework, no college degree, who face a difficulty getting a job. But we know that nothing<GED<diploma<AA<BA<BS<MA<MS<PhD.

 

The more work you do, the more you get paid.

 

Does Luther require the GED of every student applying there?  If so, that would make more sense than just requiring it of homeschoolers.

They took other tests, yes. Look, I can appreciate that many of our public schools are in deep doggie doo. But those schools' students take standardized tests every few years showing their progress. The colleges know how well a school's children perform in college. They have absolutely no way of evaluating every homeschooling family without using the GED or a similar test.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you went to the school with your child's results from state achievement/content tests (CTBS, WASL, whatever you have), you are much, MUCH more likely to get the GED waived.

 

My daughter will have her first standardized test this year. She's in first grade. Step daughter and son are tested annually by the state.

 

So in a word... yes. Yes they do have to take standardized tests to show that (a) the school is performing and ( b ) the child is performing.

 

TIL that b ) is b).

 

 

It's insulting because the school requiring the GED is basically claiming that homeschooled students are not high school graduates

 

No, it does not claim that. It claims that they have no way to verify the education that the homeschooler claims to have received, from a third party. The school is monitored by a third party (district, state, and national exams which do not benefit from the school's success relative to other schools, since national performance is monitored by international testing agencies). Homeschooling families who do not participate in the exams all the way through are not verified by a third party. That doesn't mean they aren't doing good work. It means the university doesn't know.

 

The SAT is essentially an IQ/logic test. It doesn't test for content knowledge. The GED is the test we have to do that.

 

I'm truly shocked to see so many people objecting to an exam. It is precisely these exams, and Americans' performance on them internationally, which I would have thought drove many to homeschool in the first place.

 

If you want them to be applied to the public schools, why should you be exempt when it comes to university?

 

I would suggest that if you don't want your child to take the GED, because it's a test taken by many poor people and people from dysfunctional families who have no other option and you don't want to be associated with that level of performance, then you should have your child verified by a third party in some other way. The most reliable way to avoid the GED would be to have the child apply for the International Baccalaureate or to test through the school annually on the state tests.

 

I have no problem with homeschooling. I do take issue with the idea that the GED is some recipe for failure, or that content tests are not appropriate for homeschoolers.

 

You could lobby for an alternative test to the GED for homeschoolers, but you'd effectively be lobbying for a White Middle Class High School Knowledge Test to be given alongside the GED, aka the Ghetto / Redneck Dropout High School Knowledge Test.

 

The content would still be the same.

[Barbara H]

Hello all,

I heard back from the Director of Admissions at Luther. The GED is not required. It is one of two options available to students with unaccredited transcripts. So, it is the GED or students can submit a detailed transcript and homeschool description. The detailed transcript may include readings, evaluation, etc. - this is something many homeschoolers who are applying to selective colleges are already doing. The director said the majority of students choose the transcript route but either is acceptable.

 

So, no worries on the GED. It is an option but not a requirement even for students with unaccredited transcripts.

[8filltheheart]

Did you read the articles?

 

The story by NPR is about how far you can get with only a GED, having not finished high school coursework beyond the requirements. Yes, employers look at having only taken a test and not having finished coursework, as inferior to having finished coursework and gotten a college degree, particularly if you took some advanced classes in high school.

 

But they are not mutually exclusive.

 

The military story is about people who dropped out:

 

"Each of the services strictly limit the number of high school dropouts (which includes GED holders) who can enlist each year."

 

If you didn't drop out, then this article doesn't apply to you. If you dropped out of high school but went on to finish an associate's or bachelor's, then this article doesn't apply to you.

 

Again, it is people who have the entire extent of the GED as their proof of education, no homeschool coursework, no college degree, who face a difficulty getting a job. But we know that nothing<GED<diploma<AA<BA<BS<MA<MS<PhD.

 

The more work you do, the more you get paid.

 

They took other tests, yes. Look, I can appreciate that many of our public schools are in deep doggie doo. But those schools' students take standardized tests every few years showing their progress. The colleges know how well a school's children perform in college. They have absolutely no way of evaluating every homeschooling family without using the GED or a similar test.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you went to the school with your child's results from state achievement/content tests (CTBS, WASL, whatever you have), you are much, MUCH more likely to get the GED waived.

 

My daughter will have her first standardized test this year. She's in first grade. Step daughter and son are tested annually by the state.

 

So in a word... yes. Yes they do have to take standardized tests to show that (a) the school is performing and ( b ) the child is performing.

 

TIL that b ) is b).

 

 

No, it does not claim that. It claims that they have no way to verify the education that the homeschooler claims to have received, from a third party. The school is monitored by a third party (district, state, and national exams which do not benefit from the school's success relative to other schools, since national performance is monitored by international testing agencies). Homeschooling families who do not participate in the exams all the way through are not verified by a third party. That doesn't mean they aren't doing good work. It means the university doesn't know.

 

The SAT is essentially an IQ/logic test. It doesn't test for content knowledge. The GED is the test we have to do that.

 

I'm truly shocked to see so many people objecting to an exam. It is precisely these exams, and Americans' performance on them internationally, which I would have thought drove many to homeschool in the first place.

 

If you want them to be applied to the public schools, why should you be exempt when it comes to university?

 

I would suggest that if you don't want your child to take the GED, because it's a test taken by many poor people and people from dysfunctional families who have no other option and you don't want to be associated with that level of performance, then you should have your child verified by a third party in some other way. The most reliable way to avoid the GED would be to have the child apply for the International Baccalaureate or to test through the school annually on the state tests.

 

I have no problem with homeschooling. I do take issue with the idea that the GED is some recipe for failure, or that content tests are not appropriate for homeschoolers.

 

You could lobby for an alternative test to the GED for homeschoolers, but you'd effectively be lobbying for a White Middle Class High School Knowledge Test to be given alongside the GED, aka the Ghetto / Redneck Dropout High School Knowledge Test.

 

The content would still be the same.

I think your post shows ignorance of what homeschoolers achieve. Also, the idea that the SAT is an IQ test means you have no understanding of the current SAT. (Maybe back in the days of analogies, etc, it was an aptitude test, but today there are only minor differences between it and the ACT. )

 

There are SAT subject tests, AP scores, dual enrollment options, NLE,......all additional ways homeschooling rigor is verified.

 

But the main pt is that homeschoolers earn high school diplomas with full transcripts. They have not dropped out of high school. It is insulting to suggest that they need to take a test intended for someone who does not have a diploma and full hig school transcripts.

 

Fwiw, I would not have a child take the GED. My kids' achievements exceed high school standards. Their accomplishments speak for themselves. Any university that wanted a GED would be eliminated from our list and the loss would be theirs.

[Belacqua]

Oh, good news!

 

And to think a simple "or" on the website would have saved you all this trouble.

[Barbara H]

Oh, good news!

 

And to think a simple "or" on the website would have saved you all this trouble.

 

Yes, I suggested they might want to consider adding the OR because it is confusing right now. The admissions director was very nice and I'm sure the college doesn't want to discourage homeschoolers from applying!

[Barbara H]

The SAT is essentially an IQ/logic test. It doesn't test for content knowledge. The GED is the test we have to do that.

 

 

Just in case it is of interest, the ACT is considered a content knowledge exam. The SAT is currently being redesigned to make it more like the ACT.  People with high IQs will probably continue to do well on both exams, but these tests will not just be logic tests.

 

Homeschoolers do not typically take the GED and it is not the way colleges confirm student have mastery of high school content. Colleges looking for evidence of content mastery typically consider other of validation such as ACT or SAT scores, SAT subject test scores, AP test scores, and/or dual enrollment college grades.

 

[Candid]

Did you read the articles?

 

The story by NPR is about how far you can get with only a GED, having not finished high school coursework beyond the requirements. Yes, employers look at having only taken a test and not having finished coursework, as inferior to having finished coursework and gotten a college degree, particularly if you took some advanced classes in high school.

 

But they are not mutually exclusive.

 

The military story is about people who dropped out:

 

"Each of the services strictly limit the number of high school dropouts (which includes GED holders) who can enlist each year."

 

If you didn't drop out, then this article doesn't apply to you. If you dropped out of high school but went on to finish an associate's or bachelor's, then this article doesn't apply to you.

 

 

 

Yes, I did read the whole story and I'm afraid my take was different than yours. The only person they found who was positive about the GED is cutting hair. They even have a high school aged young lady who doesn't want a GED. 

 

And as for the distinction you are making between the GED and a diploma with the military. It doesn't exist. If you have a diploma, then you don't have the GED. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Mathmarm, you may feel differently about homeschoolers being required to take the GED when Junior is out of diapers and trying to join the military or apply for a job. Or Junior may end up graduating from a brick and mortar school, and it won't even give you a moment's pause.  Posters have given very valid reasons why the GED isn't a great idea and you seem to ignore what they've said.   A real concern shouldn't be trivialized.  What I can't figure out is why it matters so much to you.   This is not about in any way diminishing the accomplishment of those who have dropped out and then gotten their GED and moved on in life, whether in work or in education, it's about homeschoolers who will or have already graduated high school being told they need the GED.

[Corraleno]

They have absolutely no way of evaluating every homeschooling family without using the GED or a similar test.

 

And yet 99% of colleges somehow manage to evaluate homeschoolers without requiring a GED — including, apparently, the college the OP posted about. In addition to the ACT/SAT, there are APs, SAT subject tests, DE and other outside classes, various honors & awards (e.g. NLE, NGE, Math Olympiad, robotics, Scouting awards, etc.), reading lists, course descriptions, letters of recommendation, essays, and even interviews. There is no reason whatsoever to require students who have legally graduated from high school to take a test designed for adults who did not graduate.

 

Jackie

[BlsdMama]

 

I would suggest that if you don't want your child to take the GED, because it's a test taken by many poor people and people from dysfunctional families who have no other option and you don't want to be associated with that level of performance, then you should have your child verified by a third party in some other way. The most reliable way to avoid the GED would be to have the child apply for the International Baccalaureate or to test through the school annually on the state tests.

 

I have no problem with homeschooling. I do take issue with the idea that the GED is some recipe for failure, or that content tests are not appropriate for homeschoolers.

 

You could lobby for an alternative test to the GED for homeschoolers, but you'd effectively be lobbying for a White Middle Class High School Knowledge Test to be given alongside the GED, aka the Ghetto / Redneck Dropout High School Knowledge Test.

 

 

 

Binip,

 

You're new.  Welcome.

 

Now to address forum etiquette. If you wanted to discuss how a GED would be a perfectly acceptable choice, beginning your own thread would be acceptable as long as it was in a friendly and hospitable kind of a way.  However, this was a mess and it wasn't appropriate, IMO, as I had a question that was important to me and I needed to know how others interpreted this.

 

 

"I have no issue with homeschooling."  I should hope not... As this is a homeschooling board. 

But it does beg the question - do you homeschool?

 

We who have spent twelve years INVESTING in our children's education shouldn't have to pretend like they didn't graduate.  It stands for Graduation EQUIVALENCY.  My daughter doesn't need anything that is the equivalent of graduation degrees.  It IS INDEED insulting.  She's a 3.9 student with good test scores.  We've worked hard.  Requiring a GED is an example of a college refusing to recognize that our classes indeed "counted" and were every bit as valid and authentic as the offerings of a  public high school.

 

 

[BlsdMama]

UPDATE:

 

As Barbara H updated previously, I also had the very pleasant opportunity to speak with an admissions officer today.  She will look into changing that part on the site so that it states OR.  Luther College does NOT require homeschool students to submit a GED.  Moreover, they would gladly welcome homeschool applicants. ;)   I know one lovely young lady who is pretty happy about that tonight. ;)

[RoundAbout]

My husband has a GED as he dropped out of high school due to family circumstances. He went on to finish college, got accepted to a top law scool, and have a successful career as a military officer, recently retiring as an O4. There were no dire consequences and I don't think the fact that he has a GED has ever come up.

 

OTOH, he will be the first to admit that the test is a bit of a joke. For a homeschooler who has completed high school level work, the requirement to earn a GED would be insulting. I concur that it should be avoided as it *can* be perceived negatively, and there is simply no need in this day and age. Glad to hear this college is being smart.

[BlsdMama]

Requiring a GED is an example of a college refusing to recognize that our classes indeed "counted" and were every bit as valid and authentic as the offerings of a  public high school.

 

 

[mamajudy]

This happened years ago with one of my DDs. She had applied to a private university and received a letter from them informing her that homeschoolers had to take the GED. Even though she had SAT scores that qualified her for a full tuition scholarship, they still wanted the documentation. At her age, the only way she could legally take the GED was to attend classes at the local adult education center before taking the test. My husband (who has a PhD, which admittedly helps when taking to educators) immediately contacted the school and educated them about homeschooling, providing them with a copy of the state law regarding home education, as well as statistics, etc.Shortly after that, we received notification that the school decided to change their policy, and DD was accepted to their honors college. She turned them down to attend her first choice university. But hopefully, by getting the policy changed, we helped other homeschoolers who may apply there in the future. When colleges have these policies, sometimes it's a matter of ignorance on their part concerning home education.

[BlsdMama]

This happened years ago with one of my DDs. She had applied to a private university and received a letter from them informing her that homeschoolers had to take the GED. Even though she had SAT scores that qualified her for a full tuition scholarship, they still wanted the documentation. At her age, the only way she could legally take the GED was to attend classes at the local adult education center before taking the test. My husband (who has a PhD, which admittedly helps when taking to educators) immediately contacted the school and educated them about homeschooling, providing them with a copy of the state law regarding home education, as well as statistics, etc.Shortly after that, we received notification that the school decided to change their policy, and DD was accepted to their honors college. She turned them down to attend her first choice university. But hopefully, by getting the policy changed, we helped other homeschoolers who may apply there in the future. When colleges have these policies, sometimes it's a matter of ignorance on their part concerning home education.

 

:001_wub:    What a positive, proactive approach to take!

[Barbara H]

 My husband (who has a PhD, which admittedly helps when taking to educators) immediately contacted the school and educated them about homeschooling, providing them with a copy of the state law regarding home education, as well as statistics, etc.Shortly after that, we received notification that the school decided to change their policy, and DD was accepted to their honors college. She turned them down to attend her first choice university. But hopefully, by getting the policy changed, we helped other homeschoolers who may apply there in the future. When colleges have these policies, sometimes it's a matter of ignorance on their part concerning home education.

 

Great story!  We are all ambassadors for homeschooling and assuming other people have positive intent is a great place to start. Sometimes, sure, it turns out people or institutions hold prejudices that can't be changed. But, so often it is just a matter of misunderstanding and it can be resolved. It is great when we can leave a positive impression and make it easier for the next homeschooling family that comes along.

[Tullia]

My son's experience was that he did not need the GED for admissions either for CC or when transferring, but it was required for scholarship eligibility.  YMMV.

[snowbeltmom]

My son's experience was that he did not need the GED for admissions either for CC or when transferring, but it was required for scholarship eligibility.  YMMV.

There was a situation a few years ago where some colleges had misinterpreted the federal govenment's financial aid regulations and mistakenly thought that homeschoolers had to take the GED in order to qualify for aid.  I wonder if this is what happened in your son's case?

 

[Candid]

My husband has a GED as he dropped out of high school due to family circumstances. He went on to finish college, got accepted to a top law scool, and have a successful career as a military officer, recently retiring as an O4. There were no dire consequences and I don't think the fact that he has a GED has ever come up.

 

OTOH, he will be the first to admit that the test is a bit of a joke. For a homeschooler who has completed high school level work, the requirement to earn a GED would be insulting. I concur that it should be avoided as it *can* be perceived negatively, and there is simply no need in this day and age. Glad to hear this college is being smart.

 

I think what worked for your husband is that he had advanced degrees before joining the military.

 

I found another page on enlisted enrollment http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/join-the-military-basic-eligibility.html

 

They begin by saying:

 

 

 

They need at least a high school degree (a GED may or may not suffice).  

 

But in the bullet points they say:

 

 

 

 

You must (with very few exceptions) have a high school diploma.

 

 I can remember when home schoolers had a very difficult time being enrolled into the military if they tried at the end of high school. Some of it was because they were perceived as not having that high school diploma. Folks worked very hard for a very long time to get this changed.