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Are they saying what I think they're saying, right?! UPDATE #42


BlsdMama
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There was a situation a few years ago where some colleges had misinterpreted the federal govenment's financial aid regulations and mistakenly thought that homeschoolers had to take the GED in order to qualify for aid.  I wonder if this is what happened in your son's case?

 

I believe you are correct about misinterpretations of federal regulations, but in our case there is a state rule which applies to scholarships funded by the State of New Mexico. The law establishing the scholarship doesn't require the GED. It's a state department of education ruling which, so far, hasn't been challenged in court or clarified by the legislature.    

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I believe you are correct about misinterpretations of federal regulations, but in our case there is a state rule which applies to scholarships funded by the State of New Mexico. The law establishing the scholarship doesn't require the GED. It's a state department of education ruling which, so far, hasn't been challenged in court or clarified by the legislature.    

 

That's a bummer. I wonder if Colorado has anything like that.  That seems like something HSLDA should be addressing (instead of the political scare campaigns they are so fond of! :glare: )

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Great story!  We are all ambassadors for homeschooling and assuming other people have positive intent is a great place to start. Sometimes, sure, it turns out people or institutions hold prejudices that can't be changed. But, so often it is just a matter of misunderstanding and it can be resolved. It is great when we can leave a positive impression and make it easier for the next homeschooling family that comes along.

 

This can be hard to keep in mind, but I agree it's important. The other thing to remember is that many people assume that whatever homeschooling is in their state is replicated across other states (thus you get colleges who want to know about umbrella organizations, accredited homeschooling or whatever PA is calling the special homeschool diploma). Even other homeschoolers tend to assume that what they've experienced is similar to requirements in other states.

 

And colleges may assume that one homeschooler is like another, for good or bad. That they are outstanding students ready for the next challenge or that they are going to have a steep learning curve to be able to cope with college level work. I think that is just a human tendency to try to categorize people. If it weren't homeschooling, it might be categorizing based on race, economics, family college experience (legacy or first gen college), rural vs urban, etc.

 

It's great when you can help a school see that they are excluding good applicants because of how they are wording a requirement or by what they are requiring.

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That's a bummer. I wonder if Colorado has anything like that.  That seems like something HSLDA should be addressing (instead of the political scare campaigns they are so fond of! :glare: )

 

It is really annoying, but those who are most involved in Santa Fe have been reluctant to challenge the status quo.  I can see both sides of this.  We have a good hs law which people worked hard to pass several years ago and I can understand why some are reluctant to open things up again.  Our state budget is heavily invested in educational spending and we have a few professional educators in the legislature who would eliminate home schooling and charter schools if they could.  We're hoping ACT/SAT scores, a decent GPA and internships will help offset the GED, but it's too soon to tell. 

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Barbara H - Great work!  Would you like to tackle UMass Amherst next?  My son applied and was accepted to the honours college with scholarships.  (He had SAT scores, DE grades from a Mass. cc, and a few other things to verify my undated, ungraded mummy transcript.)  I exchanged an email with UMass Amherst admissions before he was accepted in which they were very firm about him having to take the GED in order to matriculate (not apply).  If I remember correctly, their financial aid website said he would not need a GED as a homeschooler in order to receive financial aid.  My son chose to attend a different college, but Massachusetts homeschoolers would be grateful if you were as successful with UMass Amherst as you were with Luther. : )

 

Nan

 

PS - Just to add to your knowledge base, in case it is useful - the private college my son chose wanted to see his cc physics grade before they would accept him.  He applied EA and they told him they were pretty sure they wanted him, but wanted those grades of a letter from his professor indicating what sort of work he was doing before accepting him as an engineering major.  And my conversation with UMass Lowell a few years ago indicated that they had no such GED requirement.  The admissions person I spoke to actually called another admissions person just to check for me.  They said they would be happy to take my son because of his cc classes.  He was not interested in Lowell so we never tested this out.

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I know there have been several threads about some schools in Pennsylvania as well.  If anyone, who doesn't have any students applying this year, would be interested in taking on some of those schools, I know University of Pittsburgh has been mentioned, it would be a great service to homeschoolers too.   Next year I'll be happy to take on some requests like this.   :D   These policies need to change.

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Barbara H - Great work!  Would you like to tackle UMass Amherst next?  My son applied and was accepted to the honours college with scholarships.  (He had SAT scores, DE grades from a Mass. cc, and a few other things to verify my undated, ungraded mummy transcript.)  I exchanged an email with UMass Amherst admissions before he was accepted in which they were very firm about him having to take the GED in order to matriculate (not apply).  If I remember correctly, their financial aid website said he would not need a GED as a homeschooler in order to receive financial aid.  My son chose to attend a different college, but Massachusetts homeschoolers would be grateful if you were as successful with UMass Amherst as you were with Luther. : )

 

Nan

 

 

I finally got an email back from admissions and they insist they require homeschoolers either provide school district certification, association certification, or the GED for enrollment. I wrote back a fairly long response and we'll see if I hear back. The policy is totally odd and it is unreasonable, but I'm not going to be surprised if they don't budge. It is perplexing to me that an institution would be willing to ignore the high school diploma of a honors level student that they were willing to grant a scholarship to. It is just not reasonable on any level.

 

Also just to follow up on Luther.... Score one for the Hive!!! Luther said they are flexible with homeschoolers and appreciate that the matter was brought to their attention. They have a meeting set up to discuss the wording. "Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to inform us when our language is vague or confusing."

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Did they say what they meant by "school district certification"?  Each year we applied to homeschool and submitted an assessment and a new plan to our Mass. school district, and we have letters saying that they approved the plan.  Mostly.  They didn't give us anything in writing at first.  Youngest has a full set of letters for high school, though, and the colleges my children attended all wanted copies of those letters.  When I was investigating, their admissions website seemed to indicate that they wanted an "official transcript" from the school district or a cover school or a GED.  Not the same thing as those letters.  Their financial aid website said "Have a high school diploma, General Education Development (GED) certificate or have completed a high school education in a homeschool setting approved under state law " which I thought was much more reasonable.  When I emailed admissions explaining about the letters that most Mass homeschoolers have, and saying that the financial aid office seemed to wording that matched what legal Mass homeschoolers could provide, I received no answer.

 

Great about Luther!  And thank you so much for inquiring about UMass!

 

Nan

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Did they say what they meant by "school district certification"? 

 

They want a letter from the district certifying that the child has graduated from high school. This is totally weird and we all know something that districts don't typically do. I suppose on a case by case basis some nice person in school administration might take pity and agree to sign something, but that's not going to work for most of us. We homeschooled K-12 in full compliance with state law and ourlocal district has absolutely nothing to do with us. They could no more attest to a homeschooler graduating high school than the people who work at the DMV or the post office. It is just ridiculous.

 

 

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I finally got an email back from admissions and they insist they require homeschoolers either provide school district certification, association certification, or the GED for enrollment. I wrote back a fairly long response and we'll see if I hear back. The policy is totally odd and it is unreasonable, but I'm not going to be surprised if they don't budge. It is perplexing to me that an institution would be willing to ignore the high school diploma of a honors level student that they were willing to grant a scholarship to. It is just not reasonable on any level.

 

Also just to follow up on Luther.... Score one for the Hive!!! Luther said they are flexible with homeschoolers and appreciate that the matter was brought to their attention. They have a meeting set up to discuss the wording. "Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to inform us when our language is vague or confusing."

 

 

Barbara, I just wanted to THANK you for taking this on! What a gift of your expertise. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Wow.  I doubt many school districts are going to do that, even if they have approved the yearly plans and accepted the yearly assessments.  Thank you so much for asking!

 

 

Well, and as Barbara said above, it would be meaningless to ask school districts to do that anyways, as they have nothing to do with oversight or regulation of homeschool compliance to high school diploma/college admission requirements.

 

 

You know, I really don't understand why these few colleges won't accept some SAT Subject tests as "proof" of high school competency -- and ACT/SAT scores as a sort of national "class ranking".

 

And if it's because these colleges want some sort of "standard" for a diploma ... that's just crazy, because every single school district has a different diploma standard, requiring slightly different things for awarding a diploma -- AND the quality of the classes that go into that diploma vary WIDELY from school to school. There IS NO standard...   :eek:

 

Also, I also don't think these colleges realize that not all high schools are accredited, which means diplomas from those high schools have just as much "weight" or oversight as homeschool awarded diplomas -- and probably a lot less, because most homeschool families I know go above and beyond to make sure their coursework is credit-worthy AND that their students really learned the material. AND, some states require annual inspection of materials and proof of work from homeschoolers, so those families are getting very close individual inspection that public school students DON'T receive.

 

In comparison, I don't see high schools as having the time (or interest) in working that hard to make sure students are *learning*. They are having to expend all their time figuring out how to jump the hoops to count student attendance in such a way as to maximize per-student budget allocations.

 

An example: a good friend taught English for over 30 years at a local high school. Over the years, the school changed what counted as attendance from student being in their registered classes all day, to student showing up for 4 classes in a day; the school was desperate to be able to somehow keep up their head count to maintain their per-student budget allocation because they were losing money due to rising dropout rates. The last year my friend taught at that school, he kept working with a student in his senior English class to have the student do the required make-up material just to pass the class, which was required for the student to graduate. The student did not bother to do the work, my teacher friend had to fail the student, knowing the student would not graduate. Imagine his surprise when he saw the student at graduation, receiving her diploma, and double surprise when he when back and checked the transcript and discovered that through the magic calculations of the administration, the "F" she earned/he awarded, was now a "D" so the student could graduate and the high school's graduation statistics would not drop and affect their budget...

 

And this student, for NOT doing the required work, was GIVEN a diploma that easily opens doors for her (well, probably not, since she's probably NOT planning on college! LOL), while the above poster's hard-working honors level homeschooled student can't get in because he lacks a piece of paper with a specific company (school) name on it...

 

 

:rant: Okay, done with my rant. (lol)  -- Sorry, Nan, I wasn't ranting at you. :) I just realized I had bottled all that for the duration of this thread and needed to vent.

 

 

Just to clarify: I really DON'T mind colleges wanting proof that homeschool students are capable of meeting their standards. BUT... when there are SO many differences between high schools, and we DO have some national standards in the form of SAT Subject tests and ACT/SAT test scores, AND the colleges THEMSELVES administer an incoming-student assessment test as a final double check on each individual student's working ability, I really don't get the hang-up on the SCHOOL-APPROVED diploma...

 

Warmest regards (or should I say, hot-under-the-collar LOL!), Lori D.

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