When teaching your DC, do you ever find yourself getting angry

[Dmmetler]

At the way you were taught?

 

DD was working on LCM with AOPS today. And I found myself getting downright mad at every single math teacher and book I'd had from about 5th grade on. Because it made so much SENSE instead of just being this sort of mystic number that I had to find, and that, if it wasn't obviously apparent, basically required going through rituals to figure out.

 

And that's happening so much. In math, mostly, but in other subjects, too.

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I honestly wonder how much of the difference is in the way you were taught and seeing things through the eyes of an adult. (Thinking in terms of learning alongside our kids in general, not just math.). My older kids will often make comments like "wow, that makes so much more sense now" when they hear me explaining something to a younger sibling-- and it is the exact same explanation I used with them. Learning things "in hindsight" does give us a completely different perspective than when we are learning them on the front-end.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Yes. Whole word memorization with NO phonics, spelling lists to memorize with NO rules explained, absolutly NO grammar instruction, humongous gaps in material....

 

It's the second reason we started considering homeschooling when ds#1 was 6 months old.

[MASHomeschooler]

Not angry, just as I was not angry with the teachers my kids had before we pulled them to homeschool. I think they did/do the best they can with what they have. I absolutely have felt things like disappointment, regret, "if only...", etc. (And maybe a bit of mad at my parents for not seeing how little I was getting out of it - and the negatives I was experiencing - and doing something about it.)

[Julie Smith]

History. I remember very little of history. As in I'm pretty sure we were taught little to nothing. Well with the exception of the first people's on Cananda. Every year we would begin at the beginning of Canada's history. We usually made it to 'us' beginning discovered by Vikings. One year I think we even got to be discovered by Christopher Columbus. 

 

I admit that much of that repeating of studing the same thing again and again makes me feel something like "What your _ grader needs to know" for the schools across the country would make a lot of sense. 

 

So every year in later elementary we would study the beginning of Canada's history, and read a novel by Gordon Korman.

 

In middle school and early highschool we would read "The Pearl" (4 different years), then "Romeo and Juliet" (3 different years) and be yelled at over the fact we were never taught grammar. (Once the teacher even threw a book at the class.)

[mathmarm]

Well, I think there is something to seeing things from the perspective of a teacher--someone who knows the material already, even if only through another route. Sometimes, when I am reading through various undergrad textbooks, I find an explanation, a metaphor, a visual or an example that I really like! That resonates with me and shows me a new angle on something I know very, very well already. Or something I did as an undergraduate but never mastered. Its possible that you just never understood what other teachers were trying to say. Sometimes I find that kids are so confused by past experiences that they are shut down before I even begin teaching them a topic that they should've been exposed to a few times already.

 

So, lets say that your 4th, 5th and 6th grade teachers covered LCMs in a boring, textbook fashion which form your frustrating/boring/uninspired experience in each grade--you never mastered it, but each year its familiar enough that you never got stuck. But in 7th grade, you walked into the class for the LCM lecture so bored, and 'worn out' on the topic from previous years that even if your 7th grade teacher taught exactly the way that AoPS is teaching LCMs right now--it went in one ear and out the other.

 

You used the residual knowledge of 4th-6th grade math lessons on LCM to get you through the topic in 7th grade and never payed the teacher any mind. Next year, in 8th grade, you had a new teacher who,fresh on best practices and eager to inspire though still nervous, stammers through a slightly better than standard LCM lecture, then the 8th grade teacher asks if anyone has any questions about the topic but you had none.

 

You go on about your life for years, never really using LCMs again until one day, you are teaching someone else the topic and now you have seen various "original" flavor presentations of the material in your search of finding suitable resources for your student (your kid) and finally you find one that is so tasty--so flavorful and yummy that it just resonates with you. That 'makes clear' the mysterious LCM procedure and gives you perfect clarity, meanwhile, unbeknownst to all, your daughter is getting an "I Get It" but not an "I OWN it" lesson on LCMs.

 

Personally, I was very pleased with my math education--I attended PS but my mom was a high school math teacher and I was very advanced in math from the work we did at home with mama, not from what I practiced in school. My mom wasn't necessary teaching us school math--she was training us as mathematicians from jump. She didn't exactly intend that we become mathematicians, but she talked to us and taught us as though she was a mathematician--she gave us ownership of a lot of mathematics and using what we owned of mathematics, what we got and our training (ie. engrained habits) we all went on to be quite successful in mathematics.

[Critterfixer]

Not so much as I find myself praying that my boys will not be as stubborn as their dear old Mummy was. I often see things that I was taught once, and remember how I bucked and fussed and refused to listen or let it make sense to me. I was so much of a perfectionist, that if I didn't get it out of the gate, I refused to wrestle with it until I did.

 

So not mad at my teachers. Nope.

[FairProspects]

Yes, I definitely do in math. Although I tend to think that my teachers were more than likely taught procedurally as well, so the result really wasn't born out of intention but rather ignorance. It is frustrating though to realize how much I was never taught about our base 10 system, place value, and basic operations. I just had no concept of the big picture, which really would have helped me succeed in higher math!

[Miss Tick]

I get snarky and critical and dismissive about my teachers, but then, as I calm, I realize that they could very well have taught it, I just didn't hear it or "own" it as pp said. I did fine-to-well in school, so I try to pay particular attention that my dc really get it and aren't just nodding along. Time will tell...

[Mergath]

I do.  But for the most part, and especially when I got to high school, I didn't even have the benefit of teachers who did the best with what they had.  My teachers just didn't care.  Every single day of each and every history class I had in high school involved the the teacher saying, "Everyone read chapter xx to yourself," then sitting and gabbing on the classroom phone while we read.  In the math classes, the teachers pretty much read verbatim from the books, and if you didn't get it, you just had to hope your parents could help you at home, because the teachers couldn't be bothered to- they'd tell you to figure it out on your own time, not theirs.  Science was, I think, so-so, but I was bullied so much in my science classes that I honestly don't remember much of the teaching.  The two classes I remember that had decent teachers- speech and English Lit- were the only reason I even finished high school.  

 

As for elementary, I was working so far ahead up until around fourth grade that all I remember is trying to stealth-read books under my desk lid because you weren't allowed to read (or do anything else) when you finished your work, you just had to sit quietly and stare at the wall.  (Yeah, public school kids are so well-socialized, aren't they? *snort*)  I checked out around fourth grade because I couldn't take any more mind-numbing tedium, and the teachers just kept passing me along, as long as I didn't cause trouble.  Not a single one of these people, who saw me for eight hours a day every day, said, "Hey, we have this girl who could read at a post-secondary level in first grade, maybe we should make sure she's being challenged."  Because they honestly didn't care.

 

Sorry, sore subject for me. :P  But if my teachers had even been incompetent but tried hard, my life would have been much different.  But incompetent and apathetic?  None of us stood a chance.

 

When I think about what my life would have been like if I'd had a parent teaching me one-on-one at my speed and taking into account my interests, I get very, very angry.

[Heidi]

I don't get mad at how I was taught, I get mad at what I wasn't taught, like grammar, history, and government. I think I read less than five classic works in high school.

[lewelma]

I do.  But for the most part, and especially when I got to high school, I didn't even have the benefit of teachers who did the best with what they had.  My teachers just didn't care.  Every single day of each and every history class I had in high school involved the the teacher saying, "Everyone read chapter xx to yourself," then sitting and gabbing on the classroom phone while we read.  In the math classes, the teachers pretty much read verbatim from the books, and if you didn't get it, you just had to hope your parents could help you at home, because the teachers couldn't be bothered to- they'd tell you to figure it out on your own time, not theirs.  Science was, I think, so-so, but I was bullied so much in my science classes that I honestly don't remember much of the teaching.  The two classes I remember that had decent teachers- speech and English Lit- were the only reason I even finished high school.  

 

As for elementary, I was working so far ahead up until around fourth grade that all I remember is trying to stealth-read books under my desk lid because you weren't allowed to read (or do anything else) when you finished your work, you just had to sit quietly and stare at the wall.  (Yeah, public school kids are so well-socialized, aren't they? *snort*)  I checked out around fourth grade because I couldn't take any more mind-numbing tedium, and the teachers just kept passing me along, as long as I didn't cause trouble.  Not a single one of these people, who saw me for eight hours a day every day, said, "Hey, we have this girl who could read at a post-secondary level in first grade, maybe we should make sure she's being challenged."  Because they honestly didn't care.

 

:eek:  and definitely :crying:

 

[lewelma]

I skipped 3rd grade at the recommendation of my 2nd grade teacher in Connecticut.  The 4th grade teacher at the new school in Georgia was surprised to find out that I could not read!  I think that definitely counts as incompetence.

[Mandylubug]

I get very mad and very sad at the same time. I remember having math struggles in 2nd grade. I remember conceptually understanding it but not having the ability to memorize facts. I remember being in 2nd grade and my Dad hatefully telling me I will never get into college due to my Math issues. I remember that all the way through school. When I graduated high school with a B average and eligible for the Hope Scholarship, he actually went to my counselor and told her to recalculate because there was NO WAY I was a B average student due to my math issues.

 

I have learned now, I am visual and conceptually I get it. I have issues with rote fact memorization and still have to cheat to help my boys with their math. I hate it that I was made to feel like a failure my entire childhood. When, in fact, I was normal compared to so many others. I just learned differently.

[texasmama]

I was not angry, just relieved when I realized that I was not stupid at math.  I just had never been taught conceptually.  I didn't have the pegs to hang information on so I just memorized enough to pass a test on up through the levels through grad school. 

 

After speaking with other people, I think that some people pick up on conceptual math naturally, but I needed it presented differently because I never did.  I think I could have done a lot better in my math courses with a different approach.

 

I received a stellar composition and literature education, though, and it has been of great benefit to me for a lifetime.

[mathmarm]

I've been angry with my own school experience for so long that teaching my children is not a particular trigger for me.

 

I get mad when I'm tutoring. My current student came to me one day and said he had to read Emma and that his teacher had introduced it by saying - "You are going to hate this book but you have to read it anyway."

 

I spent the hour trying to undo that.

 

Wow, I think I might hate that teacher, wherever they are, whoever they are. That is a horrible thing to say to a student of any kind! I won't even get started on how much I loath apathetic, incompetent teachers in the primary grades because I can't quite stop myself once I do, but lets just say I tend to not play nice with those types of teachers!

[Mandylubug]

Anyone remember Encarta's game Mindmaze? Pretty sure that is THE only place I learned anything during Elementary school. May have been part of Middle school. Although, I did have some interesting teachers in middle school. I remember going through each category of interest and quizzing myself until I made it through each level of each topic.... 

 

eta: oh, and Where in the world is Carmen San Diego... and National Geographic Magazines and our yearly vacations were always to National Parks or historical places and I read every sign I came to and explored... At school, I was considered a horrible student lol

[Mommy22alyns]

I don't know if it's anger, but I now realize that my history education was a joke.  Before I began homeschooling my girls, I could not have told you one word about ancient Egypt and I didn't even know which came first, the Greeks or the Romans!

[8filltheheart]

eta: oh, and Where in the world is Carmen San Diego...

One thing this thread has made me remember is many of you are only a few yrs older than our oldest......he used to play Carmen Sandiago while our younger kids don't even know who that is. ;)

 

Some of what is being described is exactly why I walked out of the ps during student teaching and swore our future kids would never attend ps nor would I teach in one.

 

However, my own high school education was excellent and I was blessed with dedicated teachers that taught and had high expectations. Very few made high grades and kids failed and those grades reflected the real effort of the students.

[Mandylubug]

I'm sure that is part of it, but I recall some of my early elementary teachers saying, "Math is not my thing." 

 

not...good....

 

My Algebra 1 teacher in 8th grade repeatedly told us all she was a science teacher, to read, do our work, figure it out and she'll do the grading... No lie!

[regentrude]

Looks like I am the only one here who does NOT have those feelings.

I am pretty happy with the public school education I received. I had a fantastic math teacher in grades 5 through 10 who was teaching conceptually and made it fun and whom I credit with making me fall in love with math. I must have had pretty good teachers in most subjects, because I remember a lot of material in all subjects from my school days, even subjects that were taught by teachers I did not like. So nope, no anger. History was a bit lacking because of the communist bias in East Germany, and I am continuously working on that now as an adult, but basically, I'd be happy if I could get my kids a home education on the same level as my schooling. There are some subjects where my homeschooling will definitely fall short of my own school education; I learned two foreign language to fluency from teachers who were fluent or native speakers.

[8filltheheart]

Looks like I am the only one here who does NOT have those feelings.

I am pretty happy with the public school education I received. I had a fantastic math teacher in grades 5 through 10 who was teaching conceptually and made it fun and whom I credit with making me fall in love with math. I must have had pretty good teachers in most subjects, because I remember a lot of material in all subjects from my school days, even subjects that were taught by teachers I did not like. So nope, no anger. History was a bit lacking because of the communist bias in East Germany, and I am continuously working on that now as an adult, but basically, I'd be happy if I could get my kids a home education on the same level as my schooling. There are some subjects where my homeschooling will definitely fall short of my own school education; I learned two foreign language to fluency from teachers who were fluent or native speakers.

No, you are not alone. I feel the same way. I had an excellent education and I actually thought college my freshman yr was easier than high school. (Not so much in my higher level classes ;) )

 

But, I had older, committed teachers that were probably teaching from the 50s and 60s. I have to wonder if that is the difference. (And my all time favorite teacher ever, my college mentor, probably earned his PhD in the 40s.)

[FairProspects]

I was not angry, just relieved when I realized that I was not stupid at math.  I just had never been taught conceptually.  I didn't have the pegs to hang information on so I just memorized enough to pass a test on up through the levels through grad school. 

 

After speaking with other people, I think that some people pick up on conceptual math naturally, but I needed it presented differently because I never did.  I think I could have done a lot better in my math courses with a different approach.

 

I received a stellar composition and literature education, though, and it has been of great benefit to me for a lifetime.

 

The bolded is the conclusion I have come to as well. I have several friends who are accountants or physicists that attended the exact same schools I did and they all picked up conceptual math naturally. That is not true for me though.

 

No, you are not alone. I feel the same way. I had an excellent education and I actually thought college my freshman yr was easier than high school. (Not so much in my higher level classes ;) )

 

But, I had older, committed teachers that were probably teaching from the 50s and 60s. I have to wonder if that is the difference. (And my all time favorite teacher ever, my college mentor, probably earned his PhD in the 40s.)

 

I would say the same (and my teachers weren't from the 50s and 60s). I certainly haven't been handicapped in any way by my education, but I might have seriously considered a career in STEM if my conceptual math skills had been stronger.

 

[*Lulu*]

I had some excellent teachers. I had a handful of horrid ones as well.

 

It was my experience during student teaching, knowing what coursework was required for elementary ed majors, and working at a Sylvan from graduation until Punk was born that helped set me on the path to homeschooling. That and the fact that my sister and I went through the same system 5 years apart but, due to the retirement of most of my excellent teachers, received two very different educations.

[Luckymama]

No, I don't get angry. I had a quite good education, despite attending seven different schools in five districts in three states. I did graduate high school in 1984, so perhaps there is a generational change. The teachers and schools were all able to handle my acceleration needs (my parents didn't want me to grade-skip as I was already young for my grade).

 

The only teacher who did not do a good job was my high school physics teacher. I was woefully underprepared for my college physics classes (as a chem major). I could plug and chug like heck, but I didn't understand physics conceptually.

[Rhonda in TX]

No, I don't get angry. I had an adequate education with good teachers, for the most part. I would have loved learning history with whole books, but other than that, I'm good. And even that, I'm not angry about. I'm not sure I would have appreciated it then, just like my kids didn't appreciate it. There's a reason we now use textbooks. :tongue_smilie:

[mathmarm]

Looks like I am the only one here who does NOT have those feelings.

I am pretty happy with the public school education I received. I had a fantastic math teacher in grades 5 through 10 who was teaching conceptually and made it fun and whom I credit with making me fall in love with math. I must have had pretty good teachers in most subjects, because I remember a lot of material in all subjects from my school days, even subjects that were taught by teachers I did not like. So nope, no anger. History was a bit lacking because of the communist bias in East Germany, and I am continuously working on that now as an adult, but basically, I'd be happy if I could get my kids a home education on the same level as my schooling. There are some subjects where my homeschooling will definitely fall short of my own school education; I learned two foreign language to fluency from teachers who were fluent or native speakers.

 

Nope, you're not alone. I, too, was fairly pleased with my PS education. I didn't learn math there, but we only learned math at home, so I learned other stuff at PS, I had friends and experiences through school that my family couldn't have afforded otherwise.

[SorrelZG]

Only English and mostly after reading a text linked here not too long ago about the history of language arts education where I learned the whole tragic story behind why my high school English classes were what they were. Yeah, I still feel anger if I think about it much but I don't blame any teachers - that was like a century's worth of misguided theory culminating for me in that crippling waste of time.

[kubiac]

Math.

 

Science.

 

Writing.

 

Foreign language.

 

In retrospect, my education in all of these domains was incredibly weak. I am, and have been for some time, surprised and disappointed that it's OK to get through your formal education without anyone expecting mastery of these topics. I went to American public schools all the way through, usually in some kind of accelerated program, but the programs were invariably erratic and uneven, totally dependent on the passion and skill of individual teachers.

 

MATH: I was good enough at math to make to calculus in high school, but I feared it so much that I wouldn't have dreamed of continuing in college or considering a STEM career. Math was one long saga of humiliation, fear and confusion until Kumon in high school restored my confidence in myself.

 

SCIENCE: I was good enough at science to qualify for our high school's Science Bowl team, but again, so much wasted opportunity here.

 

WRITING: I figured out enough about writing from Strunk and White that I majored in English and became an editor and a writer, but boy, I wish I could tell you what a gerund is. Or explain any number of other rules of punctuation and style. I caught those rules, but I was never taught them, and so I have a very Swiss cheese (holey) mastery of my own language.

 

FOREIGN LANGUAGE: I can sit on a bus here in L.A. and understand (more or less) the Spanish-language conversation of the couple sitting behind me, but I couldn't produce a comprehensible sentence if I tried. This one, I think, is my fault. I just resisted the drill and the hard work necessary for mastery of a foreign language. Maybe it was because I started after puberty? Maybe my brain was already closed? Who knows...I took Spanish for years, but none of it ever really stuck since I considered it a disposable, non-essential course requirement.