Saxon Has Made This Momma Cry...

[PachiSusan]

and in a good way. 

 

I have heard all the arguments pro and con to Saxon and was scared but feeling convicted that this was the right program for our daughter, and tried to silence the con voices in my head to give it a full go. 

 

We are starting week 2 of school and I allow Melissa to choose which order she wants to do her subject in. Every day it's the same thing now: Math and Art first. 

 

We were doing the 4th lesson of the year and she looked at me and said, "You know what Mom? I really like Saxon a LOT!!!! I really love Math now!!" I asked her why she liked it and she said, "Well, it reviews what I learned yesterday, gives me something new to think about and practice, and then something to make me think!"

 

I asked her if she liked it because it was easier and she said, "Oh no, Mom. I like it because I like the way they explain things and I just "get it" better!!! 

 

Talk to me at the end of the year when she gets to things she's never seen before, but for right now, she's smiling while doing math and building a foundation for Math success. Win Win! 

[Roxy Roller]

I totally get it! 

 

I tried Saxon with my 4 oldest, and it has only been good for one of them, but he absolutely loves it.  It has been a perfect fit for him, and he knows it.  Math is never a struggle each day, because he understands the way the book teaches.  I do have Art Reeds DVDs, but he rarely looks at them.  Most of the time he can read and understand a lesson right away.

[loftmama]

Mine love Saxon, too. I say "love" loosely; they don't love math and usually need some prodding. Because I get tired of prodding, I've tried Singapore, Math-U-See, and Art of Problem Solving. Each time he says he likes Saxon math because of how well the lesson explained. What a delight! :)

[AngelaNYC]

I stopped listening to the naysaysers and used Saxon for ds last year (6th grade).  I love it and he said it was the best math program we've ever used.  I'm shocked.  We plan on sticking with it for the long run.  

[abba12]

Indeed. I personally HATED saxon when I was homeschooled. We became a MUS family (less choices back then, especially in Australia, you were either a saxon family, a mus family, or a state curriculum family)

But my husband, also homeschooled, LOVED it. He used it right through, and simply assumed we would be using it with our own kids (we won't be :P I guess I need to be comfortable with the resources I'm using to teach)

 

Having said that, if a child wasn't understanding the curriculum I was using, and needed something a bit more simple and traditional, saxon would be my first option. It definitely has it's uses for a certain type of child.

[Ellie]

:party:

 

Saxon has been very popular for well over 20 years. It's ok that some people don't like it; that doesn't make it not worthy; it only means...some people don't like it. :-) There are enough success stories from long-term users to show its efficacy.

[HRAAB]

I hear you.  I've had a couple kids that really liked Saxon.  One of my 7th grade twins likes Saxon better than any other math book we've ever tried.  She worked on it over the summer - more than what I required.  If it works and they like it, shut out all the negative comments.

 

Then there were my other girls....

[...................]

edited- we dropped Saxon for good finally and are doing great with Mastery Approach for my ds.  He is so extremely happy.

 

 

My dd has used Horizons for a few years now and it works great for her.

[Guest]

Aw, I'm so glad she is loving it and that you guys found a good fit, I know you were nervous about it.

 

For us, I personally love Saxon. I think it's awesome and had planned to use it all the way through. My son, OTOH, really likes Singapore better. In fact, we had an interesting conversation this morning. He commented to me, out of the blue, how much more he liked Singapore than Saxon. I turned to him and said, "Really? Tell me WHY" to which he answered that Saxon bounces around a lot, and in Singapore, he learns something and then moves on. Well, color me shocked. I couldn't believe that he could recognize the differences in the program.  I'm thankful when our kids can tell us what they like/don't like about programs!

[Mom0012]

So far, so good for my dd as well. At first she was a little upset because the lesson was taking her so long, but now she's picking up the pace and seems to be enjoying it. We're on about lesson 18 or so. She's used CLE for years and we were at a point where I wanted something that would take us through high school. The best part is, she snuggles in bed with me while we watch the Art Reed DVDs. I don't get as much snuggling as I used to these days, so I'm eating that up.

[mamakelly]

I loved Saxon in the younger years! So glad it's working for you!!

[PachiSusan]

Thank you so much, everyone!!!! It's still going great so far!! 

[SheriGene]

Susan,

So glad for you.  I have one in Saxon and one in MUS.  They are both doing great!

 

Sheri

[Hunter]

We were doing the 4th lesson of the year and she looked at me and said, "You know what Mom? I really like Saxon a LOT!!!! I really love Math now!!" I asked her why she liked it and she said, "Well, it reviews what I learned yesterday, gives me something new to think about and practice, and then something to make me think!"

 

 

This is what I expected for you. :D

 

Saxon isn't for everyone, but it is such a relief for many. It takes something overwhelming and turns it into something doable.

 

The happiest students I have ever seen were PS students who were WAY "behind", who were tested and placed, and started steadily making progress for the first time in their lives. Many students feel empowered and hopeful after starting Saxon.

 

Good luck, and fingers crossed, it stays good.

[PachiSusan]

This is what I expected for you. :D

 

Saxon isn't for everyone, but it is such a relief for many. It takes something overwhelming and turns it into something doable.

 

The happiest students I have ever seen were PS students who were WAY "behind", who were tested and placed, and started steadily making progress for the first time in their lives. Many students feel empowered and hopeful after starting Saxon.

 

Good luck, and fingers crossed, it stays good.

 

Thank you, my friend!! I knew you'd be happy for us. Melissa is deliciously average in Math and I'm enjoying her smile through it. She'll hit challenges, but after she's more strong in her foundations! 

[Hunter]

Don't be afraid to back up and repeat lessons, when it get's tougher. Including rereading the explanations. The second and sometimes third time around are the charm.

 

Just backing up, can take the pressure off. The sooner you back up and review the better. If you are dead set on finishing a book in a set period of time, it can feel scary to back up and review. Not everyone can finish a book in a year, and that is FINE. I'm not sure what Seton's rules are about students making progress though Saxon, but that is something I would want to know.

 

If you are pressured to try and finish a book a year, break lessons up to a bit here and there spread out through the day. It helps. If a lot of mistakes are being made, it helps to do just a few problems and correct and redo those few right away. Then take a break and do a few more.

 

Try and approach hard problems like puzzles. Maybe race each other and race for a tiny prize, like a Skittle or chocolate chip.

[PachiSusan]

Still going strong!!!!!!! Lesson 12 and she's still excited about it!

[Hunter]

Awesome!

[momto2Cs]

We returned to Saxon last year after a few years of this and that and the other thing. We all feel relived to be using such a strong, solid math program again, although when we hit a rough patch, I back things up with worksheets from Math Mammoth's Blue Series!

 

I think we'll be sticking with Saxon from here on out!

[PachiSusan]

We returned to Saxon last year after a few years of this and that and the other thing. We all feel relived to be using such a strong, solid math program again, although when we hit a rough patch, I back things up with worksheets from Math Mammoth's Blue Series!

 

I think we'll be sticking with Saxon from here on out!

 

That's great! I have found that so far, she doesn't need anything outside of the explanations in the book. I think I will be getting the Saxon Teacher or DIVE in the higher levels to make sure she's getting all she needs! 

[LAmom]

May I hijack this post and ask HOW do you know if you need to change?  I am thinking of maybe trying out Saxon for my oldest (5th grade).  SHE HATES MATH.  We use Math Mammoth.  I love how easy it is to use.  Pull out 2 pages, look over directions, explanations, and she does the work.  She sits there very and works very slowly through it.  She is a good student, likes workbooks, reading, etc.... I just am not sure if it is Math Mammoth not working for her or of she needs to try something else.  The something else I would try is Saxon.  All my homeschooling friends in real life use Saxon!  Everyone!  Unless there is some secret non-Saxon person...  anyways, the appeal is the tried and true factor.  Maybe this conceptual math just isn't for my dd?  I don't know.  How will I know without spending lots of money.  I did buy CLE last year and it was too hard to implement with our schedule.

 

Anyways, I can start my own post but I just thought Saxon fans may have some helpful input on why they think Saxon works better than another math they have tried.  How do I know what will work for her?  Mastery, spiral, etc.  She is not that great at math...mostly slow and bored and it is not too easy for her.  I love MM and how it teaches in ways I never was taught, but maybe it just isn't for dd?  This forum does make it seem like Saxon is a huge mistake, lol.  I've read enough negatives to steer me clear but then why does it work for all my friends?!

 

Thanks!

[PachiSusan]

I can tell you that I was super nervous about using Saxon because of the absolute HATE some people seem to have for it here. In all my homeschooling circles, I have not run across this attitude, so it really took me aback and made me wonder.

 

I knew we needed a change because my daughter was losing her love of math and we kept running into true roadblocks. Even backing up and slowing down didn't help. Last year I bought the Saxon book early to see what it was like. We ran into a block where she truly did not understand something the way it was described. I looked that subject up in Saxon and taught it to her the next day. The light snapped on. I could tell she finally got it.

 

I realized that the approach isn't as important as the understanding - and Saxon spoke her language. The other one did not. It was a solid program and well tested and effective but not for my daughter.

 

The other component is to get your child in the right level for them, not what the number on the book says. Our daughter is in 5th grade and "should" be using 6/5, but we bumped down to 5/4, to build her confidence and fill in any holes.

 

I'm a believer in Saxon now for my child. I've seen a nearly miraculous turn around in understanding, willingness to work, and a love for numbers.

[stayathomelibrarian]

yay!  I was schooled with Saxon from 6th grade on, and I always planned on using it with my children.  We did for 1st grade. My daughter didn't dislike it, but I was just really tired of muddling through the teachers manual.  If I knew how to get lesson plans to simplify it, I would've.  I switched to Horizons this year, and my kiddo is loving it.  I do plan to go back to Saxon at the 4/5 level. 

[loftmama]

If I may reply to LAmom

 

We used Saxon for a couple years and my son, then aged 11 & 12, complained a lot, really drug his feet, and basically drove me nuts. So I downloaded sample lessons from all the other top math programs and bought some if I found them at a cheap, used price. Guess what? He begged me to go back to Saxon! :lol He learned that he really, really likes the very specific, very explicit, very thorough instructions. He is a perfectionist and works slowly and really likes the straightforward approach. Now he really doesn't care for the 30 lesson problems on top of mental math and lesson practice, but he feels like the explanations are the best.  He can read them and understand them on his own without asking for help. Hope that helps!

[momto2Cs]

The other component is to get your child in the right level for them, not what the number on the book says. Our daughter is in 5th grade and "should" be using 6/5, but we bumped down to 5/4, to build her confidence and fill in any holes.

 

Same here. Dd10 "should" be in 6/5, and ds12 in 8/7, but they are, respectively, using 5/4 and 7/6 this year. I want to make sure they are really solid in their math skills before moving on!

 

[PachiSusan]

If I may reply to LAmom

 

We used Saxon for a couple years and my son, then aged 11 & 12, complained a lot, really drug his feet, and basically drove me nuts. So I downloaded sample lessons from all the other top math programs and bought some if I found them at a cheap, used price. Guess what? He begged me to go back to Saxon! :lol He learned that he really, really likes the very specific, very explicit, very thorough instructions. He is a perfectionist and works slowly and really likes the straightforward approach. Now he really doesn't care for the 30 lesson problems on top of mental math and lesson practice, but he feels like the explanations are the best.  He can read them and understand them on his own without asking for help. Hope that helps!

 

I'm sure she'd appreciate ALL answers! :)

[oneddmanybooks]

Susan, I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for this thread! I had always been a little "afraid" of Saxon Math. I finally tried it this year (doing 5/4 currently) and it is working so well for dd! I can hardly express what a great thing Saxon math has been for us. She loves the way things are explained. Dd seems inspired now and hopes to do two books in one calendar year!

 

One thing we do that dd really likes is that I ordered an extra student book for myself. I don't write in it, but when she asks me a question, she loves that I can just look at the same page (that she is on) without standing next to her and trying to read hers. I'm not sure why (maybe because I am very nearsighted?) but this really works well for us. Also, we check answers verbally. She reads her answers aloud while I look at the answer guide.

 

Thank you!!

 

[Classically Minded]

I'm another lover of Saxon!  I had it in private school in high school and it left such an impression on me of how much better it was than what I was doing in my former public school that I knew I would use it when we started homeschooling.  I love the way it is laid out, it fits me and my dd10 loves it a LOT, it is her favorite!!

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Love Saxon here -- as long as it's an old, sometimes-beat-up book actually written by John Saxon.  I've heard less than stellar things about the new versions.

[Hunter]

Love Saxon here -- as long as it's an old, sometimes-beat-up book actually written by John Saxon.  I've heard less than stellar things about the new versions.

 

Yes, I like each new edition a little less than the last one. The series keeps getting wider and more advanced.

[thowell]

So which editions are best? This is not the first time I have heard this. Dd10 is using CLE but we are planning to change next year so we can continue through high school.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

So which editions are best? This is not the first time I have heard this. Dd10 is using CLE but we are planning to change next year so we can continue through high school.

 

 

Saxon died in '96.  Sometime after that, I think Holt (maybe??? I could be wrong) took over publishing and messed with the layout and content to the point that some texts are too confusing.

 

Prob safe to stay with a pre-96 copyright.   Editions and dates have been discussed somewhere in the forums.

[Girl Power]

Glad to hear it! Saxon has been tried and true in our house for years. I tend to deviate from the k-3 Saxon, as I despise bulky teacher manuals, but stay the course when they hit 5/4.  The spiral method is a great fit for us. Older dd tried a mastery based program one year and we both agreed the incremental approach and plenty of review Saxon offers solidifies the concepts for her.

 

We have used the Art Reed DVDs for oldest dd. She prefers a human teacher, although younger dd using DIVE and says she likes that.

 

Beck

[Girl Power]

So which editions are best? This is not the first time I have heard this. Dd10 is using CLE but we are planning to change next year so we can continue through high school.

 

 

Here is an article from Art Reed's website on which editions he recommends:

 

http://usingsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2013.php#0413

 

beck

[thowell]

Saxon died in '96.  Sometime after that, I think Holt (maybe??? I could be wrong) took over publishing and messed with the layout and content to the point that some texts are too confusing.

 

Prob safe to stay with a pre-96 copyright.   Editions and dates have been discussed somewhere in the forums.

 

Where can you find the older editions? I cant find any before round 2000.

[Classically Minded]

Where can you find the older editions? I cant find any before round 2000.

 

All of mine are from 1994 for Saxon 3 and below and we got them from Christianbook.com.  However, we have the 2005 for 5/4.  I also would like to know where you get the earlier ones for 5/4 and up.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Amazon and eBay.   For Amazon, look for the used sellers who have edition info in their listings.  ebay listers should have that info, but you can always ask

[Hunter]

I do not agree with Art Reed's recommendations and do not think he is a better teacher than Saxon. We didn't have time to both watch the Reed DVDs and read the book. Reading the book is better, in my opinion.

 

It's a real pain to track down the old stuff. A real pain!

 

Many families will be okay with the new stuff. Often, okay is good enough.

[Ellie]

Love Saxon here -- as long as it's an old, sometimes-beat-up book actually written by John Saxon.  I've heard less than stellar things about the new versions.

 

Math 54 through 76, maybe 87, were co-authored by Steve Hake. In fact, the earliest editions were titled "Hake Saxon." :-)

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Found a bit more info.  It appears that the 3rd edition was the perhaps the last by Hake/Saxon before it was all sold to Harcourt.

 

One link here, another here.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Why are the older editions "better"?

 

[momto2Cs]

Love Saxon here -- as long as it's an old, sometimes-beat-up book actually written by John Saxon.  I've heard less than stellar things about the new versions.

 

Yep. I buy all my Saxon "used" so we get older editions. It's amazing how many completely unused copies are out there cheaply as "used". I plan on sticking with the older editions through high school as well, so that geometry is integrated.

[momto2Cs]

Why are the older editions "better"?

 

Personally, I think the older editions are clearer in their instructions from a very brief comparison I did, and I really like the idea that geometry is integrated with Algebra and Advanced Mathematics. I understand there has been some reordering of topics in the newer books at all levels, but since we only use older ones, I am not sure about this.

 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Personally, I think the older editions are clearer in their instructions from a very brief comparison I did, and I really like the idea that geometry is integrated with Algebra and Advanced Mathematics. I understand there has been some reordering of topics in the newer books at all levels, but since we only use older ones, I am not sure about this.

 

:iagree:

 

That seems to be the new version complaint -- things aren't clear because of some funky editing.  Maybe they had to align to different standards?  Whatever it is, the new versions seem to turn off more users than they attract.

[PachiSusan]

We use the second edition and buy them used at online curriculum sites.  We are on lesson 40 and still doing great and loving Saxon. Melissa is STILL thanking me for changing her to it. WIN WIN for us!!! 

[Jim]

Last I checked, Rainbow Resource still had the editions Art Reed suggests.   

[katilac]

May I hijack this post and ask HOW do you know if you need to change?  I am thinking of maybe trying out Saxon for my oldest (5th grade).  SHE HATES MATH.   <snip>

 

 .  How do I know what will work for her?  Mastery, spiral, etc.  She is not that great at math...mostly slow and bored and it is not too easy for her.  I love MM and how it teaches in ways I never was taught, but maybe it just isn't for dd?  This forum does make it seem like Saxon is a huge mistake, lol.  I've read enough negatives to steer me clear but then why does it work for all my friends?

 

Personally, I am willing to change anything my kids "hate." No, you don't want to curriculum hop, but I certainly think a change is in order when a kid hates something (particularly if they are not an overly negative kid who hates everything, kwim?). 

 

Unfortunately, I think that actually trying something is the only way to know what is going to work for her. I don't know how Math Mammoth is set up, but most math programs at that level have a bit of wiggle room built in - it does not take 180 days to complete them. Also, in 5th grade, it is not horrific if she does get a month or two 'behind' by trying a new program (and I do think a month is likely more than enough to see if something is working). 

 

As far as this forum making Saxon seem like a mistake, I am an old, OLD member, and I can tell you that the popularity of Saxon waxes and wanes.  One thing I never did get was people saying that is was a grade level behind - the typical sequence has the student in calculus as a senior, and I refuse to consider that 'behind,' lol. 

 

Saxon is abundant on the used market; it is usually fairly easy to find text, solutions, and tests at a very manageable price. 

 

Personally, I think the older editions are clearer in their instructions from a very brief comparison I did, and I really like the idea that geometry is integrated with Algebra and Advanced Mathematics. I understand there has been some reordering of topics in the newer books at all levels, but since we only use older ones, I am not sure about this.

 

 

Just FYI, they still publish the integrated versions, they have just added the separate versions as well. The integrated versions are what they recommend, but it doesn't work for a lot of schools/students due to standardized testing issues. 

[bethben]

I changed to Saxon for ds #3 from Singapore math this year. Because of the mastery approach in Singapore, ds was forgetting what he had learned previously. The Saxon approach works for him because the constant spiral gives him the time he needs to master the problems. He really needs the constant review that we couldn't get with Singapore (I was never good trying to build in review with all those books).

 

Beth

[joyfulhomeschooler]

So, if we are using a 3rd edition set of books for 6/5 could that be part of our issue with Saxon?

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

So, if we are using a 3rd edition set of books for 6/5 could that be part of our issue with Saxon?

 

It's cheap enough to find out by getting a 2nd edition online, then re-selling the reject(s).  Is the issue the level?  DD has consistently been ahead by one book compared to grade level. (algebra 1 this year for 7th).