People who always "bark" or speak aggressively

[saw]

Just wondering whether there are others out there who have friends/relatives who do this ... FIL (ex-FIL I suppose now that DH is xDH) always speaks to people in a really aggressive tone of voice. It feels like he's barking. He doesn't have the ability to have what I would say are normal conversations; rather, he starts off with a question, then launches into a lecture about that subject. He thinks he knows everything about everything. If you had a PhD in history, he would lecture you on your specialist subject. If you were a mechanic, he'd tell you how to fix your car. Seriously. And he will tell you in the most aggressive way possible, so that you'd think he was angry but he isn't. 

 

It's so bad that I avoid speaking with him if at all possible because he will go on for quite a long time (15 minutes or more) without anyone getting a word in edgewise. It was so bad this past visit that both xDH and MIL spoke to him several times to warn him to stop, because he was cornering DDs (15yo) and going on and on and on at them. Obviously I've stressed that DDs have to be polite and listen and respond appropriately to any questions, but by the end of FIL/MIL's visit they were thoroughly fed up and don't want anything more to do with FIL. He does this to everyone, not just children. We don't argue back or respond aggressively, but listen quietly until it's over. 

 

I've never met anyone else who interacts in this way, and was wondering whether this sounds familiar to anyone? The family has quite a lot of mental health issues, which made me wonder whether whether this is part of something bigger that no one is wiling to discuss. I've been putting up with this for years but have never been able to figure it out. 

 

[WishboneDawn]

He may need people to be over the top in their responses before he understands how h his behavior is affecting them. I would dump the coaching on manners in regards to him and start modeling some very assertive responses. Normal politeness may not register at all with him.

 

So if he starts the kids AND you (because the kids will have to see it modeled) might need to put your hands up as if to push him away and tell him, "You're being too loud. I don't want to talk right now," and then walk away even if they have to push him. If he follows they go you, another adult or a room they can close behind them. They could even be saying things like, "stop cornering me, leave me alone," "you're scaring me," or,"stop yelling, I'm leaving now." You may need to step in and pull the child away in mid-monologue and tell him those things yourself.

 

This is really rude behavior but it might be what's needed for him. Either more subtle cures don't work or he doesn't understand its a problem because people are generally too polite and just put up with his behavior. It's also good for your kids to learn that some people need different responses.

[Catwoman]

I knew a woman that, even when she was being very nice, had that same tone of voice. If you just heard her voice but weren't paying attention to her words, you would have been convinced she was mad at you. Every little thing she said sounded like a loud, crabby command.

 

Even the dog was kinda scared of her.

 

But it sounds like your ex-FIL might just be a bully. :glare:

[SKL]

I know some people like that.  They are mentally ill.  It can be very hard to be compassionate after someone like that has said something nasty.  But I try (and I stay away as much as I can).

[Jean in Newcastle]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001549.htm

 

Cornering people to talk about one subject at length, lack of voice modulation to normal social perameters etc. are possible signs of Asperger syndrome.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001549.htm

 

Cornering people to talk about one subject at length, lack of voice modulation to normal social perameters etc. are possible signs of Asperger syndrome.  

[itsheresomewhere]

Yes.  Our person is older and needs a hearing aid but refuses.   

[Plink]

My FIL gets loud and opinionated. I have found that being subtle is useless. I now cover my ears and say "shh it is hard to understand you when you get that loud," and leave my hands up until he lowers his voice and adjusts his tone.

 

We don't get cornered though. That sounds really uncomfortable.

[Moxie]

We suspect my FIL has Aspergers. We can be sitting in a room talking about the sky and he'll launch into a speech about work. He isn't a bully he just has no clue that people aren't interested. My MIL yells at him a lot. We all just know that that is how he is.

[Stacia]

I was thinking possible Aspergers too. The lecturing 'pros' about their own fields makes me think narcissist too....

 

I've dealt w/ some people who sound similar. My experiences have led me to a few conclusions: I can totally tune out (doesn't bother the other person because they're not really wanting my input or a 'conversation' anyway) or I can respond in a fairly loud, curt manner (not being rude but more of mirroring the other person -- I've found this is usually fine too as the person doesn't perceive it as 'aggressive' or anything, more that I'm just communicating). Depends on the day & my mood as to how I choose to deal w/ it.

[Danestress]

It does sound like a mental health issue. But I am wondering if maybe it is time to stop listening politely, putting up with it, and demanding that your daughters do the same. Maybe it would not be the worst thing in the world for him to find that when he acts like and over bearing, pompous @ss, people are going to end conversations quickly and refuse to engage.

 

I know one woman who is like this. I simply refuse to have a conversation with her. I am afraid I will say something rude, so I simply won't talk to her beyond, "Hello." There really are consequences to behavior!

[lllll]

..

[saw]

Thanks all -- very helpful! I have suspected for a while that there may be Asperger's or at least Asperger's traits, not least because xDH has traits, but no one in the family would ever admit to anything like that. For example, Dnephew has serious "issues", enough that he cannot be in a regular school but needs to be in a "special" school but no one in the family talks about it. 

It's helpful to hear that a firm response might be called for. I was raised to be polite and non-confrontational, which makes being anything other than that a challenge, but that may be what is called for. 

MIL's response during this last visit was interesting -- she was super-quiet and didn't contribute much to any conversation. FIL shouts at her every now and then, it's really awful. 

[Luanne]

I had a great aunt that used to do this to her granddaughters.  I could have dealt with that if what she was saying was actually nice  They were 1 and 3 at the time (the summer I stayed with my grandfather which was near them ... I was 18 at the time).  She was always telling them they were no good and wouldn't amount to anything.  I know ages 1 and 3 might not grasp this, but it still couldn't have been good for them, not to mention the fact that it probably continued into their adulthood.  I always thought that was so wrong.

[zoobie]

If your DDs are uncomfortable being "cornered," I would encourage them to speak up about it. Teach them assertive body language, how not to get backed into a corner, etc. They don't have to tell him he's a crazy old coot, but they can say "I feel uncomfortable. Excuse me." And then remove themselves.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: It may be time to gently mention the "bark" and if that doesn't work, leave the room once a loud lecture begins. 

 

 

HOWEVER,  (sorry for using my loud typing voice) could it be a hearing issue?  :bigear:

[Rosie_0801]

Using Tarot archetypes, because I find them useful, that would be a King of Swords. Having categorised him as such, I'd assume he was developing a hearing loss and was finding his intellectual life *agonisingly* boring. I'd do my best to get him started on one of his pet topics and disagree just enough to annoy him.

[Guest submarines]

Using Tarot archetypes, because I find them useful, that would be a King of Swords. Having categorised him as such, I'd assume he was developing a hearing loss and was finding his intellectual life *agonisingly* boring. I'd do my best to get him started on one of his pet topics and disagree just enough to annoy him.

I was thinking Asperger's. But the above seems reasonable as well.

[kubiac]

My FIL is very much like this. Even driving to the library with him is moderately terrifying because his turn-by-turn directions are So. Intense.

 

I do think there's a strain of autism in my FIL (can't read voices/faces, so can't produce corresponding affect in himself) as well as a strong element of anxiety. If he never stops yelling/talking, no one can interrupt and call him on his [expletive deleted]. His anxiety also manifests as OCD. He has to be the one to check the locks. He will only go to certain restaurants that fit into his rubrick. And lots more.

 

I don't have a solution really, except unconditional love and acceptance of his issues. He's old, mean and entitled and he will never ever get professional help or see his own fault in relationships, so we just take him as he is and avoid him most of the time. (Restricting interactions to 10-minute weekly Skypes has been a good way to maintain the relationship without exacerbating my husband's issues with him.)

[Geo]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001549.htm

 

Cornering people to talk about one subject at length, lack of voice modulation to normal social perameters etc. are possible signs of Asperger syndrome.  

 

...or even Nonverbal Learning Disorder, which typically includes the same social-skills deficits. I was

going to broach the subject, but glad to find someone else picked up on it, too. Ds11 has NLD.

 

http://www.weirdnotstupid.com/asvsnld.php

 

 

Question to original poster: I bet you didn't see that coming, huh? Neither did I. :D

[Geo]

hiccup :001_rolleyes:

 

[Garga]

Before reading all the replies, I immediately thought of that move with Claire Danes portraying the woman with autism. She was kind but barked out everything.

 

We watched the movie a second time with the commentary on and the actual woman with autism was commentating. I finally had to turn it off because the harsh tone of voice was just too much to listen to for so long. She was a lovely person inside, but that strident voice was difiicult to handle. I felt exhausted just listening to it on the tv and I wasn't expected to interact with her.

 

If it's something like that, I would be as forceful as possible and say things like, "you are talking too loudly right now for me. Please talk quieter. I need more space around me. I will back away from you now." I would give clear directions about your needs.

 

ETA: My dad, whom I see only once every few years because he moved away, has something like aspergers, but he won't admit it. When I give him clear instruction about a behavior I need him to change, it doesn't seem to phase him and he just rolls with it for the most part. He is lighthearted and may make an unfunny joke (to everyone except himself) about me needing space or my sensitive ears, but he will go along with it for a while.

[saw]

Interesting. No hearing loss, he's been this way since I met him twenty-five years ago. I still remember the first time I met him because he was so aggressive and so in-your-face with very personal questions. He hasn't changed, just shifted his focus to my dds (while ignoring ds). I think NLD would explain a lot, and could explain BIL and Dnephew, although BIL is good with math. Is it usual with NLD to jump to conclusions on the basis of very little evidence, or on the basis of evidence that makes sense in one's own worldview?

 

I used to think that FIL was normal and that I was abnormal for disliking his behaviour (because that's more or less what DH implied), just as I thought much of DH's behaviour was normal untll a few friends pointed out otherwise. I want to be sure that DDs don't get caught in the same trap.

FIL has now started emailing them, which is less intrusive and aggressive, and we'll figure out what to ignore and what to call him on.