Jane in NC, you've given me a panic about engineering!

[Miss Mousie]

In this thread from 2011 (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/259340-about-50-stem-majors-drop-outone-page-article-wlinks/?hl=+50% +stem +drop +out) on the College Board, I read this portion of one of your posts:

 

 

There is another reason that some STEM majors, particularly those in engineering, may jump ship. Having taught Calculus at an engineering university, I have met a number of students who really did not know why they were studying engineering. It seems that there are lots of parents who see kids playing with Legos and then decide that Johnny is a future engineer. Engineering programs see students who are great tinkerers, but not necessarily engineering material. Some of these kids would be better off at a tech school studying car mechanics or computer repair.

 

Eek!  I'm afraid I may be guilty as charged, as much I'd like to think otherwise.

 

I'd love to know what you and our engineering boardies would describe as "engineering material."  What traits or talents make the strongest engineers? 

 

And do these traits vary by field?  The general category of "engineering" is so vast, and I don't know any engineers IRL, so I have been trying to tease out information here and there to test the fit for my DS12. 

 

[8filltheheart]

I don't think there is a simple answer. Based on observing my dh and ds, both engineers, they are both very strong in math skills and are problem solvers. They are also out of the box thinkers so while others might see a problem a single approach to solving it, they might come at it from a different approach.

[JennW in SoCal]

My first reaction is to ask why you need to ferret out whether your ds is "engineer material" when he is only 12?  He has a good 6 years to go before his freshman year at college, with lots of growing and maturing to do in the meantime.

 

I always figured my own ds would be an engineer as he was a lego builder, robotics team member and a creative artistic type.  What I thought would suit him at the age of 12 and what he has chosen to study at the age of 18 are quite different, though it is still science (geology) and he still is using his engineering mind in his field work.

 

Your only job at this point, besides giving him a solid education, is to expose your ds to the work of engineers and other scientists through magazine articles (Makezine.com is fascinating, Scientific America or similar magazines are good too) and science shows, through joining robotics competitive teams or rocketry clubs, or to attend open houses by area university engineering departments.  

 

[shawthorne44]

I will second the problem solving part.  I see it as puzzles. 

Speaking of puzzles, I've never met a good engineer who didn't vastly prefer logic puzzles over crossword puzzles. 

[Miss Mousie]

My first reaction is to ask why you need to ferret out whether your ds is "engineer material" when he is only 12?  He has a good 6 years to go before his freshman year at college, with lots of growing and maturing to do in the meantime.

 

 

Ha!  I meant to address this in my OP, but it slipped my mind.  I do realize that the person he will be in five years may be completely different from who he is now. 

 

My thinking, though, is to prepare him educationally for the most stringent possibility, so he doesn't face any closed doors inadvertently.  If he stops taking math as a sophomore because he thinks he wants to be, say, a novelist, then decides as a senior that engineering is the real deal for him, well, he'd be in quite a jam!  Even that hurdle would not be insurmountable, but it is certainly more efficient to keep the train rolling straight through.  Conversely, if he prepares now with an eye toward engineering, then decides to be a novelist, he loses nothing.

[Miss Mousie]

I don't think there is a simple answer. Based on observing my dh and ds, both engineers, they are both very strong in math skills and are problem solvers. They are also out of the box thinkers so while others might see a problem a single approach to solving it, they might come at it from a different approach.

 

 

I will second the problem solving part.  I see it as puzzles. 

Speaking of puzzles, I've never met a good engineer who didn't vastly prefer logic puzzles over crossword puzzles. 

 

Of course, you're both right (and making me feel better!).  I swear, things that are completely obvious are flying right out of my brain these days.

 

:willy_nilly:

[jennynd]

stubborn and curiosity. logical thinking and great sense of humor (funny this is one thing i found in engineers i know is that most of us have  very dry sense of humor ).

 

most engineers i know (good ones, i have my fare share interaction with bad ones) are fit into those. i am a engineer and is working as engineer as well as my hubby.

 

 

[quark]

OP, why not read some biographies/ childhood memoirs of engineers? Petroski's Paperboy comes to mind.

 

I have two engineers in my immediate family. Both had vastly different educational backgrounds. Both did not play with legos and logic puzzles (mainly due to poverty). Very hard to generalize exactly what to do with your child...but there are those general qualities of perseverance, commitment, problem solving (in real life as much as possible), thinking on your feet, and being willing to try different things that will carry him far no matter what he chooses to be. And a love of math and physics will definitely be a plus too.

 

Some things DH did as a child that might have helped:

- managing bullies (managing his colleagues/ office politics comes so easily now! but I am not suggesting you go seek out bullies of course...just that making decisions on the fly...literally in his case...is a huge skill)

- knowing how to patch together shoes that were constantly falling apart

- building his own bicycle using found materials near dumpsters

- patching up the roof whenever it leaked (which was often, he grew up in the tropics)

- working two jobs as a young kid to feed his siblings

- a huge interest in math despite not having enough books

- no TV!

- teaching himself other areas of physics because he could only afford the geophysics degree as an undergrad

 

My younger sister on the other hand had a much more comfortable childhood but still no logic puzzles and legos because my parents did not spend much money on toys and books. I would never have pegged her for an engineer when she was young. She actually spent her school days debating, reading tons of lit and making mischief in class and excelling in martial arts (but yes, a lot of problem solving when you are sparring with someone much bigger and stronger than you). Didn't really have a huge love of math and science at all but she did well in them. Then when she was 18, she discovered a passion for robotics and that led to her wanting to delve deeper into electronics and analog and digital systems.

 

HTH!

[VeritasMama]

I agree about problem solving and logic. My husband is an engineer who is very gifted at math and loves problem solving and logic puzzles. He and his engineering buddies also love strategy games, they play Axis and Allies and Sid Meier's Civilizathion, among some others. You also need some drive and a good work ethic to make it through engineering, the course load is hard work even for those gifted in STEM subjects. You need self discipline and organizational skills to get through it as well. It also doesn't hurt to have some OCD tendencies, lol.

 

I have a highly motivated and math gifted son I am steering towards engineering. My flighty, disorganized, class clown type son also loves logic puzzles and strategy games, he also loves math and is great at chess, but I don't think engineering would be a good fit for him.

[Miss Mousie]

OP, why not read some biographies/ childhood memoirs of engineers? Petroski's Paperboy comes to mind.

 

...

 

HTH!

 

Wow, Quark, your whole post was indeed very helpful!  Thanks so much for taking the time.

 

I had not heard of Paperboy and will definitely pick up a copy.  If you (or anyone) can think of any other suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

I so appreciate your input.  Thanks again.

[Miss Mousie]

I have a highly motivated and math gifted son I am steering towards engineering. My flighty, disorganized, class clown type son also loves logic puzzles and strategy games, he also loves math and is great at chess, but I don't think engineering would be a good fit for him.

 

You've hit on a couple of DS's weaknesses here, but I am hopeful that those characteristics can be overcome (or at least tamed) with time, specific skill training, and maturity.

 

Out of curiosity, do have a sense of what would be a good fit for your "flighty" son?

[quark]

Wow, Quark, your whole post was indeed very helpful!  Thanks so much for taking the time.

 

I had not heard of Paperboy and will definitely pick up a copy.  If you (or anyone) can think of any other suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

I so appreciate your input.  Thanks again.

 

You are welcome! That Paperboy link leads you to other books by Henry Petroski.

 

I have also really enjoyed Homer Hickam's Rocket Boys.

 

ETA: on my wishlist (not read yet): Buckminster Fuller's Universe.

[VeritasMama]

You've hit on a couple of DS's weaknesses here, but I am hopeful that those characteristics can be overcome (or at least tamed) with time, specific skill training, and maturity.

 

Out of curiosity, do have a sense of what would be a good fit for your "flighty" son?

I have no doubt that these traits can be overcome with time and maturity, in my son it is more of a personality difference that these traits are part of. He does not like routine, he enjoys variety in his days and activities. He enjoys a wide variety of social interaction, a social butterfly if you will. I'm not saying he couldn't become an engineer if he chose to, it is just that based on his disposition it may be more difficult for him thang older son and I don't think he would enjoy it.

 

This is also the child who in the last two years has expressed a desire to take over his grandfather's farm, become a fighter pilot in the Air Force, become a lawyer and go into politics, and start his own restaurant. He is pretty all over the map with his interests, so I am thinking he needs a career with some variety to it.

 

Honestly, I think that if he is able to become more organized as he matures, he would do well being self employed in some capacity, starting his own business. I think he would also enjoy a career such as being a draftsman, or an architect. He also loves computers, I could see him becoming a programmer or web designer, something that is technical but also provides a creative outlet.

 

I also think he could be very happy farming. It is a great challenge to run your own small business like that, and there is the mechanical side of it, if you choose to learn how to service all the equipment yourself. Most of the machinery is computerized now a days, so he would have that aspect as an outlet for his interests as well. It would also save him from having to do the same thin every day.

 

Time will tell where his interests will intimately lead him...

[jennynd]

I agree about problem solving and logic. My husband is an engineer who is very gifted at math and loves problem solving and logic puzzles. He and his engineering buddies also love strategy games, they play Axis and Allies and Sid Meier's Civilizathion, among some others. You also need some drive and a good work ethic to make it through engineering, the course load is hard work even for those gifted in STEM subjects. You need self discipline and organizational skills to get through it as well. It also doesn't hurt to have some OCD tendencies, lol.

 

I have a highly motivated and math gifted son I am steering towards engineering. My flighty, disorganized, class clown type son also loves logic puzzles and strategy games, he also loves math and is great at chess, but I don't think engineering would be a good fit for him.

 

Why do you think those make him not be a good fit. he is fighty (stubborn) class clown (funny) .. I saw both in many engineers I know.... especially good ones

[Gwen in VA]

Engineers are a diverse lot. Some are amazingly detail-oriented; some are big-picture people.

 

Give your kid the best education you can. Expose him to all kinds of things. He'll figure out his direction over time! He needs a strong math background, but that is the only "need" of future STEM majors in high school.

 

(My dd1 is now getting her Ph.D. in engineering. She applied to college as a history major, despite my husband's lament that her going into history was depriving the world of a great engineer. She had her epiphany when she was 20! Kids have a way of sorting all this out, with or despite our best efforts!)

[annabanana1992]

I have an Electrical Engineering degree.  I never played with Legos or built anything growing up.  I never took apart a toaster.  My verbal SAT was higher than my math SAT.   I am a big picture person, but I can do details if needed.   My husband also has an EE degree and did build computers in his spare time.  He is the introvert with the dry wit, and I am the raging extrovert.  Even though we have the same degree, we don't understand at all what each other specialized in.

 

All that to say, I am not sure there is typical engineer anymore.  The field is so broad that I think there is room for many different types of students, provided you can do the work and are strong in math and science.

[VeritasMama]

Why do you think those make him not be a good fit. he is fighty (stubborn) class clown (funny) .. I saw both in many engineers I know.... especially good ones

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good engineer, or that he couldn't do it. I personally don't think he'd enjoy it.

 

By class clown, I don't just mean he is funny, of course my husband has a great sense of humor and aondo his colleagues. I mean he bends or breaks the rules in order to get a laugh, and then uses his charming personality to get out of trouble. He does not like tondo things "by the book," so to speak, he often rebels just for the sake of rebelling, he doesn't like being told how to do things.

 

I think he would be happier doing something where he can be his own boss, something where he has more freedom and independence to do things his own way. Engineering might have this type of opportunity for him, but my experience with it is that things must be done a certain way and you need an eye for detail and you must be meticulous. This, so far, isn't my son's strong suit.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time :).

[Arcadia]

. My flighty, disorganized, class clown type son also loves logic puzzles and strategy games, he also loves math and is great at chess, but I don't think engineering would be a good fit for him.

My older cousin who is that way was an electrical engineering scholar, graduated top of cohort and went on to be a govt. investment banker :)

 

My family is filled with engineers. No common traits even though ability to take failures and convert to success is always useful.

[shawthorne44]

Engineers are a diverse lot. Some are amazingly detail-oriented; some are big-picture people.

 

Give your kid the best education you can. Expose him to all kinds of things. He'll figure out his direction over time! He needs a strong math background, but that is the only "need" of future STEM majors in high school.

 

(My dd1 is now getting her Ph.D. in engineering. She applied to college as a history major, despite my husband's lament that her going into history was depriving the world of a great engineer. She had her epiphany when she was 20! Kids have a way of sorting all this out, with or despite our best efforts!)

 

That was sort of me.  My parents wanted me to study engineering, and I rebelled and got a Physics degree.  Although to be honest I kept drifting more and more into the Applied side of things during college.  Then I got an engineering job and Masters in Engineering. 

 

[Mom22ns]

My thinking, though, is to prepare him educationally for the most stringent possibility, so he doesn't face any closed doors inadvertently.  If he stops taking math as a sophomore because he thinks he wants to be, say, a novelist, then decides as a senior that engineering is the real deal for him, well, he'd be in quite a jam!  Even that hurdle would not be insurmountable, but it is certainly more efficient to keep the train rolling straight through.  Conversely, if he prepares now with an eye toward engineering, then decides to be a novelist, he loses nothing.

 

While I totally agree with your idea here, I think your path is backwards. My future novelist will still take 4 years of math. However, he will end with pre-calculus because math has been hard for him. A kid who struggles with math isn't likely to go into engineering not because you haven't taught enough math, but rather because they don't have the aptitude or the interest in the subject.

 

At 12, hopefully you are preparing your student as strongly in all areas as possible so that no doors are shut. Somewhere along the way, they will develop their own strengths and passions as you can follow them as they do.

 

I think we arrive at the same result, we are just getting there from different directions.

[Miss Mousie]

Good point, Debbie.

 

Sigh.  I wish I had a practice kid.  ;)

[Miss Marple]

I have an Electrical Engineering degree.  I never played with Legos or built anything growing up.  I never took apart a toaster.  My verbal SAT was higher than my math SAT.   I am a big picture person, but I can do details if needed.   My husband also has an EE degree and did build computers in his spare time.  He is the introvert with the dry wit, and I am the raging extrovert.  Even though we have the same degree, we don't understand at all what each other specialized in.

 

All that to say, I am not sure there is typical engineer anymore.  The field is so broad that I think there is room for many different types of students, provided you can do the work and are strong in math and science.

This is just like my oldest son.  He seemed to be made for a liberal arts major (history in particular) and perhaps law school.  His standardized science and math scores were his lowest.  He didn't like to get dirty.  He played with Legos but had no desire to learn mechanics.  Yet he decided on petroleum engineering and ended up graduating in the top 5 of his class excelling in the math and science as well as being a great technical writer and presenter.

 

As Gwen mentioned, these kids have a way of sorting things out once they get to college.  So far my 2 oldest are not headed the way I thought they would go when they were about 12.  

[Miss Marple]

My older cousin who is that way was an electrical engineering scholar, graduated top of cohort and went on to be a govt. investment banker :)

 

My family is filled with engineers. No common traits even though ability to take failures and convert to success is always useful.

I hope it's OK to have a little side discussion here :)  You've got me curious about the investment banker. Is your cousin considered a "quant"?  My ds2 is currently a mechanical engineering major getting his pre-med courses in as well.  He is taking an incredible load and plowing through without difficulty.  We've had some good discussion with him this summer about pre-med.  He is from a medical family (dh is a physician, I'm a pharmacist) so he knows the drill well.  He did some shadowing and volunteering this summer and enjoyed certain fields.  However he stated that he was considering medicine because it seemed to be the hardest degree and he wanted to pursue something challenging.  

 

He worked with a professor this summer doing some programming and math for a patent she is working on (something to do with search engines, etc.).  She was thoroughly impressed with his skills and talked with him at length about his future plans.  He has always had a love for math and numbers but could not figure out a way to make a good living with it.  But he learned about "financial engineering" or being a "quant" and that has really ignited some interest.  He has been researching the field and I think it is a better fit for him than being a physician.  The professor agrees as well.

 

Did your cousin go back for a masters degree in "financial engineering"?  Would love any information you could share.

[Jane in NC]

I did not want the OP to think I was ignoring her. I have been traveling and keeping the occasional eye on the boards--just not posting much.

 

It seems that most of the posters have said much of what I would have said regarding the need for a solid foundation. I will reiterate that I think pigeon holing kids at an early age is detrimental. Within my own family there is a lad who was always told that he was an engineer in the making. His academic and career paths have been filled with twists and turns but now he has sorted things out. It took a while though before he found the perfect job fit in cyber security--a career that did not exist when he was a child!

 

This is part of the problem with technology. Today's jobs may be obsolete tomorrow--or completely redefined. Today's electrical engineers often focus on hardware design. This was not the case several decades ago. My husband says that if he had had a crystal ball, he would have been an electrical engineer not a math major. But when he was in school, the profession was undergoing change. At that point, no one knew where it was headed.

 

To Miss Marple: A few weeks ago I was chatting with a young man who has a master's degree in astrophysics who was hired by a hedge fund firm as a quant. I am under the impression that some of the investment banking firms will grab math/physics/computer students and train them. I guess the question is whether one needs to be part of a network to find a job or whether the recruiting is sufficiently open to the bright minds that are out there.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I will second the problem solving part.  I see it as puzzles. 

Speaking of puzzles, I've never met a good engineer who didn't vastly prefer logic puzzles over crossword puzzles. 

 

I'm an engineer. In high school, I was the first to solve the Rubik's cube that had just been invented.

In college, we all loved Tetris to the point of mania. We had Tetris contests that would last over an hour for a single game.

 

My son could be an engineer, but he vastly prefers online gaming to any type of logic puzzle. And he does not seem to want to go into engineering. He was/is a major Lego fan, enjoys computer programming and is good at it. But no engineer.

[Arcadia]

Did your cousin go back for a masters degree in "financial engineering"? Would love any information you could share.

He was headhunted by three banks, the army and govt. boards before he graduated. He didn't even have to job hunt or write any resume. It was on the job training at a quasi-govt organisation. It is a challenging job so he don't get bored. He earn enough to retire before 50 and is now doing volunteer work :)

ETA:

The banks did heavy recruitment drives at the engineering school some of my cousins and I attended. We did Economics, Financial Accounting, Law of Torts (contract law), Human Resource Management as compulsory non-core of our engineering course.

ETA:

He is hyper good at maths, good enough to coast through university. He is a very analytical person.

 

Both engineering and pre-med allow for wide career choices and switches. I have engineering friends whose second degree is in law or accountancy. Most of my engineering cohort chose engineering because it was a safe choice with a wide variety of career opportunities staying open.

[GailV]

To Miss Marple: A few weeks ago I was chatting with a young man who has a master's degree in astrophysics who was hired by a hedge fund firm as a quant. I am under the impression that some of the investment banking firms will grab math/physics/computer students and train them. I guess the question is whether one needs to be part of a network to find a job or whether the recruiting is sufficiently open to the bright minds that are out there.

 

Whoa, that's like Zachary Quinto's character in Margin Call (if you decide to watch the movie, please be aware that about 50% of the sentences uttered contain the word f***).

 

I seem to recall reading something recently about too many college students getting degrees in finance these days.

[shawthorne44]

I was actually just reminded of something I realized in college.  There is continuum from theoretical math to repairing things.  I noticed that each of the majors I was interested in had an applied and a theoretical side.  In math, some people would make up some rules and then see what the results were.  They were what I call theoretical math.  Then there were the people that only cared about real-world math.  Those people were basically the same as the theoretical physics people.  Then you had your applied physics, which was the same stuff as research engineering.  Then regular engineering, then people who can repair things.  It is just a matter of how much math vs. how much ... practical.   

 

So, back to the original post about kids playing with legos maybe not necessarily being good engineers.  It could be that they might find happiness somewhere on the continuum, but who knows where.  My husband is probably the biggest Lego nut that doesn't make money from it.  He started when his mother made his brother give DH the brother's legos and he didn't stop until we had DD and they were a choking hazard.  He is waaaayyyyy on the theoretical physics side of things. 

[Arcadia]

My hubby is not into Legos and is a research engineer with accepted patents. I'm into Legos and used to work with supercomputers. With my cousins and nephews who are engineers, there is no correlation between Lego playing and career choice. My kids are into Legos and one of their career choice is Disney Imagineering Engineers while older's top choice has been constantly to be an astronaut. So we will see :)

[RootAnn]

..Then regular engineering, then people who can repair things.  It is just a matter of how much math vs. how much ... practical.   ...

 

Hmm. DH (Electrical Eng by schooling, Mechanical Eng by nature, Nuclear Eng by current job) does 'real world math' as part of his job, but loves to tinker & make. While he doesn't like it, he does a great job repairing things the rest of us break. He also loves crossword puzzles, dice, dominoes, navigation, astronomy, languages, reading, musical instruments, and taking long walks. His upbringing on a farm taught him the value of hard work, inquiry, and hands-on know-how.  His small school allowed him to do a lot of carpentry & welding, but it didn't teach him Calculus. 

 

I don't think you can nail down an engineering type. I'd say just to set as good of a foundation for the future as you can and support your kids in a love of learning while you teach them how to learn & where to find information. 

 

A poster on the WTM boards recently told a story of her daughter who was really into art. They made her do a full four years of math in high school - as much as her ability allowed, even if she didn't like it at all. She went into college to be an art major of some sort. She HATED it. Ended up majoring in engineering. Loved that story in so many ways. (Can't find it, or I'd link to it.)

[Erin]

My flighty, disorganized, class clown type son also loves logic puzzles and strategy games, he also loves math and is great at chess, but I don't think engineering would be a good fit for him.

You've described my younger brother perfectly.  

Software engineer for Google who has been dying for his own children to get to an age where he has an excuse to buy Legos again.  Because buying them for MY kids isn't doing it for him.  ;)

[Miss Mousie]

Thank you all for entertaining the discussion.

 

I guess what I'm left with is that the field is so vast and varied that no predictions can be made with any confidence.  In the end, he'll just follow his gut and deal with the curve balls like anybody else, but preparation-wise, I really can't "steer" beyond the standard college admission basics, and general encouragement to "aim high."

 

 

[Jane in NC]

Thank you all for entertaining the discussion.

 

I guess what I'm left with is that the field is so vast and varied that no predictions can be made with any confidence.  In the end, he'll just follow his gut and deal with the curve balls like anybody else, but preparation-wise, I really can't "steer" beyond the standard college admission basics, and general encouragement to "aim high."

Ah, but as homeschoolers we can take advantage of flexibility to allow our kids the opportunities to pursue passions. For example, my son was able to volunteer at a one week archaeological dig at a local historic site which led to an opportunity to volunteer with a college field school which opened even more doors. We know a young man who built a boat as a high school student--he is now pursuing marine engineering. Take advantage of rabbit trails! You never know where they may go!

[Arcadia]

In the end, he'll just follow his gut and deal with the curve balls like anybody else, but preparation-wise, I really can't "steer" beyond the standard college admission basics, and general encouragement to "aim high."

Even in a chosen field there are curveballs. Hubby went from working in the Army's engineering dept doing "paper pushing" to working for a French MNC as a chip programer to freelancing to now working in a company here as a research engineer. He found his niche to be R&D (aa in that makes him happy) 14 years of working so far.

Your son will just have to follow his instincts and have fun along the way :)

[Miss Mousie]

Ah, but as homeschoolers we can take advantage of flexibility to allow our kids the opportunities to pursue passions. For example, my son was able to volunteer at a one week archaeological dig at a local historic site which led to an opportunity to volunteer with a college field school which opened even more doors. We know a young man who built a boat as a high school student--he is now pursuing marine engineering. Take advantage of rabbit trails! You never know where they may go!

 

Unfortunately, DS is stuck in public school - and not a good one.  I try to find ways to "beef things up" for him, and I keep watch for summer opportunities & such.  There may be more open to him now than there was a few years ago, but I have never even been able to find a robotics club or First Lego League.

 

I guess, in a nutshell, I was looking for ways to offer guidance in an area that is completely foreign to me.  [ETA: The book recommendations and general comments in this thread will help, I'm sure.] I ended up in English/philosophy and have been a legal secretary for a couple decades.  My interest in math and science has grown, but I will never be at a point where I can really show him the way - much like no one in my family could ease my path because none of them had been away to college.

 

I seem to be lamenting my own limitations now.  That might be what's at the heart of this whole thread: feeling bad that I can't do much more for him than was done for me, despite what I know now and how much better off financially I am compared to my parents.

[mktkcb]

ok, I'll answer this one as my oldest dd is a senior engineering major at a state uni, and gets straight a's. Here's my list: logical abilities - good at puzzles, likes mental challenge, very logical; good at math - this is a no brainer really, there is loads of math and physics in the undergad program. loads and loads. If you kid is not good with upper math, or doesn't like it, don't go down that road. ; persistent - engineering classes are hard. very hard. and a lot of work.  ok, peripheral things would be creativity, inventiveness etc... but there are a lot of creative inventive kids that don't have love of logic & math, and aren't particularly persistent, so there you go. My oldest was an over the top difficult child - hyperactive and incredibly intense. I now am reasonably sure that she is probably borderline aspie because of having to deal with my youngest son, who would be classified as 2e I suppose. She was intensely creative, loved puzzles/nancy drew/mystery interactive computer games etc. Logical in the extreme. Struggled with self control. About age 13/14 she turned her corner and became very focused academically, and very self controlled. She's always been purposeful in the sense that if she knew it would be good for her to do or learn something, she would embrace that challenge & conquer it. She's still that way at age 22 ha! Right now she is purposely working on eating more kinds of veggies and being open to more varieties of foods. Anyway, she was good at math...she had her hang ups, but because she was persistent and had that "rage to master" instinct she worked through it. I knew by the time she was 16 that she would be engineering material, but she had to see that for herself, and she loves working with children, so toyed with the idea of doing Early Childhood Development also. She took both and EC class and an intro to engineering class at CC and that sealed it for her. Too many annoying hoops to jump through in the EC field, and she loved the engineering class. So off she went. She does very well, gets mostly a's, and is a member of the Engineering Honor Society, and can't imagine doing anything other than what she's doing. She's frequently the only girl in many of her classes, but she's cool with that.

[mktkcb]

ok, I'll answer this one as my oldest dd is a senior engineering major at a state uni, and gets straight a's. Here's my list: logical abilities - good at puzzles, likes mental challenge, very logical; good at math - this is a no brainer really, there is loads of math and physics in the undergad program. loads and loads. If you kid is not good with upper math, or doesn't like it, don't go down that road. ; persistent - engineering classes are hard. very hard. and a lot of work.  ok, peripheral things would be creativity, inventiveness etc... but there are a lot of creative inventive kids that don't have love of logic & math, and aren't particularly persistent, so there you go. My oldest was an over the top difficult child - hyperactive and incredibly intense. I now am reasonably sure that she is probably borderline aspie because of having to deal with my youngest son, who would be classified as 2e I suppose. She was intensely creative, loved puzzles/nancy drew/mystery interactive computer games etc. Logical in the extreme. Struggled with self control. About age 13/14 she turned her corner and became very focused academically, and very self controlled. She's always been purposeful in the sense that if she knew it would be good for her to do or learn something, she would embrace that challenge & conquer it. She's still that way at age 22 ha! Right now she is purposely working on eating more kinds of veggies and being open to more varieties of foods. Anyway, she was good at math...she had her hang ups, but because she was persistent and had that "rage to master" instinct she worked through it. I knew by the time she was 16 that she would be engineering material, but she had to see that for herself, and she loves working with children, so toyed with the idea of doing Early Childhood Development also. She took both and EC class and an intro to engineering class at CC and that sealed it for her. Too many annoying hoops to jump through in the EC field, and she loved the engineering class. So off she went. She does very well, gets mostly a's, and is a member of the Engineering Honor Society, and can't imagine doing anything other than what she's doing. She's frequently the only girl in many of her classes, but she's cool with that.

[Julie in MN]

I always think that math is the key.  The kids whom I saw weeded out in engineering were usually leaving because they just didn't want to do all that math, whether in math classes or the sciences.

 

Interesting thread where I see some of the personality traits I recognize, etc.  But whatever the person, I just think math is the foundation that, well, at least makes engineering courses do-able.

 

[Arcadia]

Entertaining article about engineers and their "relationship" with legos and lego mindstorms.

"Silicon Valley keenly awaits latest Lego robot kit"

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_23888556/silicon-valley-keenly-awaits-latest-lego-robot-kit?source=inthenews

[Miss Mousie]

Entertaining article about engineers and their "relationship" with legos and lego mindstorms.

"Silicon Valley keenly awaits latest Lego robot kit"

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_23888556/silicon-valley-keenly-awaits-latest-lego-robot-kit?source=inthenews

 

:)  That's so funny!

 

I might have to check out Olin College in Boston.  Theoretical Lego problems sounds just about perfect.   ;)

[magic]

I never thought my son would go into engineering.  I knew that he loved math, games, puzzles, sketching, etc. but I also knew that he needed to be around people and is an excellent public speaker.  I thought he might pursue politics, teaching, or the entertainment industry but we never pushed a certain career.  My husband has two brothers who are engineers- one is civil and one electrical.  When our son was registering for high school, he decided to take a drafting class and an engineering class for fun.  He found that he really liked it and wanted to continue with it but was also thinking about being a math teacher.  This past spring, he said that he wanted to look into mechanical engineering.  We scheduled a tour at the South Dakota School of Mines this summer and went for a tour.  While there,, he discovered a love that he did not know existed- metallurgical engineering.  He loves chemistry, physics, and math and ended up talking to the professor for a long time.  He is planning to do a 10 week research position there next year (between his junior and senior years) to see if it is what he really wants to do.  He attends public school but had me order additional math and science textbooks for him because he really wants to "beef up" his scores.  He is already an excellent student but loves learning and really wants to have a good grasp on his subjects.

 

He has a good friend who is attending engineering school this year but never took an engineering class in high school.  His friend had no idea what he wanted to do until he visited his older brother at school and learned about mechanical engineering.  He was an overall good student and does not feel like he will be behind because he never took an engineering class in high school.  I think it is better for the kids to have an overall great education and let them decide from there as to what they want to pursue.  Life and circumstances change and so may the passions and career choices.

[Handmaiden]

This is such a fascinating discussion.  :)

 

My husband, dad, and brother-in-law are engineers (Mech turned Network, Civil & Nuclear), so we are surrounded by geeks. :) From the time my oldest was a toddler until the 7th grade, we were sure he would be an engineer. He fit all the classic descriptions, tinkered, played with Lego, loved puzzles, etc.Then he took a programming class, and another one, and a passion for CS was born. 

 

He's now a sophomore planning to major in CS. It's fascinating to see how the concrete, hands-on, problem-solving skills have now morphed into abstract problem-solving skills. I would have never predicted that. We've told him to keep an open mind to the possibilities in college. He may end up in a completely different field, but something STEM-related is in his DNA.

I read this a while back: Getting Real About Majoring in Engineering

[Julie in MN]

I read this a while back and thought it was spot on: Getting Real About Majoring in Engineering

 

I wonder if the author and you are thinking about mechanical engineers?  His list does NOT match with engineers I know, but they are not mechanical or even electrical, so I'm wondering if that's the reason.  The author says,

• They regularly solve household problems. If the dishwasher or air conditioner conks out, these kids will pull it apart and figure out what’s wrong.
• They are life-long tinkerers.
• They have developed apps for phones.
• They have started a little company or created a product.
• They have done computer programming.
• They have taken the highest level math their school offers for four years. Ideally they have taken AP Calculus BC.
• They have also taken four years of science, which ideally will include AP physics and an AP lab science.

For instance, Dad is a chem engineer & oldest son is a petroleum engineer.  Both of them are not tinkerers in the least.  Both will get out a ruler & a level and take their time at doing small jobs like hanging pictures, so they are done exactly, and both will sometimes figure out how to do jobs themselves to save money, and are always confident they *could* figure them out.  However, tinkering is definitely not their hobby, nor starting companies, nor writing apps, nor pushing themselves to do advanced high school science courses, I'm just not seeing them there.  A lot of that list sounds like more creative types, like Thomas Edison, and I'd wonder how well those types would sit in a university classroom.  I'm thinking it might be certain types of more hands-on engineers?

 

Julie

[Handmaiden]

Julie, maybe so. Most of the list does describe my husband and my son, although dh never wrote programs other than what was required for a college class.The computer generation was just getting off the ground back then. Neither one has started a business. 
 

I followed the link to the source she quoted, but I didn't see that list anywhere on the post. Maybe what the original consultant was saying in her speech was that those were common characteristics of engineering-type kids, but it wasn't an exhaustive list.

[Erin]

That list describes my husband too (except the apps part).

 

 

But he's a cowboy... :001_huh:

[Miss Mousie]

Thanks for the link, Handmaiden.  I will read it tonight.  And I'll keep in mind Julie's caveats!