Talk me down.. I'm a wannabe unschooler sorta maybe.

[Murphy101]

I wanna quit. I'm burnt out. There's nothing wrong. Things are going very well actually.

 

I have almost everything bought and almost everything planned out. It is good stuff.

 

And I want to ditch almost all of it.

 

I want to go to mass, have coffee, do math, read good books, study foreign language and that's it.

 

If they should decide to write poetry, fish in the creek, swim in the pool, conquer Lord of the Rings online, or finish building that milk jug igloo taking up half my garage - whatever. Fine by me.

 

I probably won't though.

 

Siiiiiigh.

[elegantlion]

My son has spent half the summer watching documentaries on the history of the space program. I've been very tempted to hand him the Astronomy text and tell him to find videos about stuff in the book, tell me about it and we'll call his history and science program good. Then we'll just take out the telescope at night and watch the stars.

[texasmama]

I like you, Martha.  :D

[ThisIsTheDay]

Can you do that for part of your year?  Or every other week?  It's sounds like you want to do it but are nervous to take the plunge?  It might be the perfect solution for your family, at least for a season . . . :)

[Snickerdoodle]

We normally school year round, but as the kids get older, I can see the value of having a summer vacation to do this very sort of thing.   Getting back to routine though, that would be the hard part.   I don't know.  It's hard when the February burnout blues come in July.   :grouphug: 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I flirt with this idea too, then I go over to the high school board, and slink back with my tail between my legs . . .  :huh:

[Penelope]

I hear you. I would love to just do math and reading and then read aloud to them and ride bikes the rest of the day.

 

I especially am tempted to unschool science and history. I buy science kits and they do most of them before we ever start our year. Eldest has been reading about the world wars for a long time on his own and knows as much or more than I do. But at some point, input only doesn't seem like enough.

[freeindeed]

I flirt with this idea from time to time myself. Unit studies are one way to get closer to this.

[HRAAB]

Well, I have one dd who was basically unschooled for high school.  I say 'well' because I doubt Sandra Dodd would agree she was unschooled, but in my house it was unschooling.  If you're looking for free time, I would bag the unschooling idea.  It takes more time.  Yes, my dd was very self motivated; she started college 2 yrs ahead.  But as the parent, you are the person who enable them to be able to unschool.  It's not as simple as handing them a few books and saying go at it.  They still need help, lots of help.  If they're not driving, you're the taxi, when they need help finding resources, you are there to assist, etc.  They're still teens/kids.  They do not have the tools, financial or whatever, or the autonomy to do it on their own.  Unschooling, real unschooling, takes an enormous amount of dedication because I know you care about their education and you're a concerned parent.  You still worry and fret - if you care.  

 

I don't regret what we did with our dd.  It worked for her, and worked better than traditional homeschooling, but she was a very different child.  Always had been.  I won't do it again.  Took way too much.  Textbooks, lesson plans, tests, grades are, imo, easier.

 

But then you probably aren't really serious.  :001_smile: I would carve some time into my day somehow.  One morning a week can you get away to Mass and let the olders watch the youngers, adoration at night, an hour of uninterrupted reading.  I think I have half as many children as you, so I'm sure I don't have any idea how to make it work, but I do understand burn out and losing enthusiasm and wanting to garden, bake bread,read, drink wine and forget school.  I remember reading a book by Holly Pierot or some such name.  She took a whole day off.  I never could see how to do that, and I actually didn't think I wanted a whole day, but a few smaller breaks did wonders.  I admit I used my older two girls as babysitters on occasion, but it saved my sanity and made for a happier home.

[Ellie]

I'm not gonna talk you down. :D

[briansmama]

I've been thinking the exact same thing! We didn't get to math yesterday (the only required lesson for ds over the summer) because he wanted to work on his book he's writing. He was immersed in writing nearly all day and I didn't want to stop him. So I started revisiting my inner unschool fantasies for fall ;)

 

The problem for us is that if both ds have their way they'd play outside all day most days, so very little self-directed academics would occur. But, when I require math, music, science, history, and lit, it leaves very little time for self-directed projects like writing books!

 

I too have their curriculum all ready to go, and I love what we're using. They are great about doing their work. But goodness, there is only so much time in the day and when they are inspired to work on their own projects/learning it's pretty amazing to see!

[momto2Cs]

I too keep flirting with this idea, and the notion that if we do just language arts and math, they can pursue everything else on their own. Sigh.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've been thinking the exact same thing! We didn't get to math yesterday (the only required lesson for ds over the summer) because he wanted to work on his book he's writing. He was immersed in writing nearly all day and I didn't want to stop him. So I started revisiting my inner unschool fantasies for fall ;)

 

The problem for us is that if both ds have their way they'd play outside all day most days, so very little self-directed academics would occur. But, when I require math, music, science, history, and lit, it leaves very little time for self-directed projects like writing books!

 

I too have their curriculum all ready to go, and I love what we're using. They are great about doing their work. But goodness, there is only so much time in the day and when they are inspired to work on their own projects/learning it's pretty amazing to see!

Yes, it's the same here - my kids don't spend their free time on any kind of self-directed academics  besides reading books, lots of books.  They spend it playing outside,  or on crafty projects, or playing with breyer horses, or something like that.  When we add in academics, all the free time is spent thusly, and so no self-directed academics happens.  I like to fantasize that they would spend "free" time on something I consider important academically, but they don't.  So, I just try to do that stuff as efficiently and effectively as possible, because I think free time to play is really important for these ages.  I can't have it both (all three?) ways, though.

[Murphy101]

My olders aren't around to babysit! Who are all these people with olders lazing about available to babysit?! Mine are gone from 7:30am to 4:30 and then there's part time jobs and extracurriculars. Maybe twice a month after most of the younger ones are in bed and the olders are home, dh and I grab the chance to go out for a quick date dinner.

 

My next up 3 are not old enough to leave in charge of 5-6 younger siblings IMO. Sometimes I'll leave the middles alone and take the younger 3 with me.

 

I don't necessarily think it will be easier so much as a more relaxed approach.

 

I wouldn't care if they spent all day outside. Outside is a lot to learn.

 

And it wouldn't be entirely child driven bc I would not give up math, reading lists, or foreign language. I don't mind helping with interests. I do that now, on top of everything else but only as time allows and it never seems to allow much. :(

[Sobeknofret]

I'm not going to talk you down-- I'm right up there with you! :lol: Except for the fact that my kid isn't really interested in much besides playing video games and watching cartoons, I'd be unschooling myself.

[DarlaS]

I wanna quit. I'm burnt out. There's nothing wrong. Things are going very well actually.

 

I have almost everything bought and almost everything planned out. It is good stuff.

 

And I want to ditch almost all of it.

 

I want to go to mass, have coffee, do math, read good books, study foreign language and that's it.

 

If they should decide to write poetry, fish in the creek, swim in the pool, conquer Lord of the Rings online, or finish building that milk jug igloo taking up half my garage - whatever. Fine by me.

 

I probably won't though.

 

Siiiiiigh.

Something like this sounds good to me right about now too.

[swellmomma]

Could you take the notion from charlotte mason of masterly inactivity built into your day? Assigned work in the am, and then a 2 hour block set aside each afternoon for self-directed study/handwork/crafting/etc.  Gives time to allow the kids to follow their own direction/passions but still be structured into the day rather than a free for all like unschooling

 

[JennW in SoCal]

I wanna quit. I'm burnt out. There's nothing wrong. Things are going very well actually.

 

I have almost everything bought and almost everything planned out. It is good stuff.

 

And I want to ditch almost all of it.

 

I want to go to mass, have coffee, do math, read good books, study foreign language and that's it.

 

If they should decide to write poetry, fish in the creek, swim in the pool, conquer Lord of the Rings online, or finish building that milk jug igloo taking up half my garage - whatever. Fine by me.

 

I probably won't though.

 

Siiiiiigh.

 

Why wouldn't you?  It sounds lovely.

 

I flirt with this idea too, then I go over to the high school board, and slink back with my tail between my legs . . .  :huh:

 

Now see, that is a shame because many of us who were relaxed homeschoolers through high school have kids who are very successful college students.    

 

I hear you. I would love to just do math and reading and then read aloud to them and ride bikes the rest of the day.

 

I especially am tempted to unschool science and history. I buy science kits and they do most of them before we ever start our year. Eldest has been reading about the world wars for a long time on his own and knows as much or more than I do. But at some point, input only doesn't seem like enough.

 

But input IS enough until high school.  Most of the output about science, literature and history in our house was in the form of discussions until high school, and even then it was no more than an essay a week.  Writing was either narrations or short research topics, just for the writing practice, or it was creative writing.  But discussions were where they learned to form and defend their own opinions, and where I got a sense of what they were absorbing, what they were thinking about or interested in.

 

Well, I have one dd who was basically unschooled for high school.  I say 'well' because I doubt Sandra Dodd would agree she was unschooled, but in my house it was unschooling.  

 LOL!  I haven't seen Sandra Dodd mentioned on these boards in years!  I too would use the word unschooling to describe the bulk of our homeschool and yet it wasn't fully and completely unschooled.  Part of it was very WTM and part of it was a relaxed hybrid.  Perhaps it was a Charlotte Mason style because it was academics in the morning (the 3Rs) followed by afternoons for interests.  

 

Sometimes it is necessary to take a break from long, structured days of homeschooling.  Math, reading and foreign language together make a terrific foundation for a homeschool.  You don't have to let the kids play video games or watch cartoons when these few subjects are done, rather you can make it a rule that no electronic entertainment is allowed until 4 or 5pm.  Legos and crafts are fabulous activities, as is digging in the dirt outside.  Some days you can play along, others you can do all those pesky household chores.  Every once in a while, even during the high school years, I'd just decide we were all going to the zoo.  Or to the movies. Or out to lunch.  

 

We took summers completely off.  No math, no assignments.  Shoot, due to life one year we barely managed to get any math or reading done, and yet the following school year (9th for my oldest) both kids were just fine.  It wasn't a big deal to get a school routine started again, and neither was "behind".  My kids tended to have strong passions and interests to occupy their time, but there were seasons that passed when nothing engaged them and they spent lots of time staring into space.  Again -- no harm done other than some new grey hairs from my own worrying.  

 

I say you should take the time to just be mom sometimes.  They grow up and leave the nest so soon that you should do all you can to savor the time.  Following a curriculum and set school schedule just doesn't leave those warm, fuzzy memories.

[saja1029]

Hey Martha,

 

I remember a time when you used Oak Meadow.  No more?? (Thinking nature, simple, easier feel...)

[Ellie]

The problem for us is that if both ds have their way they'd play outside all day most days, so very little self-directed academics would occur. But, when I require math, music, science, history, and lit, it leaves very little time for self-directed projects like writing books!

 

The nature of unschooling is children learning all sorts of things that don't look anything like school. Someone who wanted to unschool wouldn't expect "self-directed academics" to occur. :-)

[HRAAB]

My older girls were't lazing about.  From the time they were 14/15 they had part-time jobs plus doing school.  Anything but lazy.  Plus I said I occasionally had them babysit and that I didn't have as many children as you.  There is much to learn outside and through employment.  Sometimes I feel those are the most important skills they can learn, but unfortunately they don't learn how to write essays, do algebra, or score well on the SAT just being outside.  Striking a balance seems to be the hardest thing in homeschooling.

 

Maybe math, lots of reading, researching topics of interest and writing would cover it all pretty well plus test prep for the oldest ones.  I know I've read about many families who have been successful following such a method plus kids learn so well when they are studying what interests them.  Not unschooling but a good balance.

[NASDAQ]

It sounds like a rather romantic vision.

 

I don't believe in asking myself questions that I won't like the answer to -- which includes "do you want to teach spelling today," as well as "do you want to empty the dishwasher" and "do you want to read Owl Babies for the millionth time."

[Chrysalis Academy]

Why wouldn't you?  It sounds lovely.

 

 

Now see, that is a shame because many of us who were relaxed homeschoolers through high school have kids who are very successful college students.    

 

 

But input IS enough until high school.  Most of the output about science, literature and history in our house was in the form of discussions until high school, and even then it was no more than an essay a week.  Writing was either narrations or short research topics, just for the writing practice, or it was creative writing.  But discussions were where they learned to form and defend their own opinions, and where I got a sense of what they were absorbing, what they were thinking about or interested in.

 

 LOL!  I haven't seen Sandra Dodd mentioned on these boards in years!  I too would use the word unschooling to describe the bulk of our homeschool and yet it wasn't fully and completely unschooled.  Part of it was very WTM and part of it was a relaxed hybrid.  Perhaps it was a Charlotte Mason style because it was academics in the morning (the 3Rs) followed by afternoons for interests.  

 

Sometimes it is necessary to take a break from long, structured days of homeschooling.  Math, reading and foreign language together make a terrific foundation for a homeschool.  You don't have to let the kids play video games or watch cartoons when these few subjects are done, rather you can make it a rule that no electronic entertainment is allowed until 4 or 5pm.  Legos and crafts are fabulous activities, as is digging in the dirt outside.  Some days you can play along, others you can do all those pesky household chores.  Every once in a while, even during the high school years, I'd just decide we were all going to the zoo.  Or to the movies. Or out to lunch.  

 

We took summers completely off.  No math, no assignments.  Shoot, due to life one year we barely managed to get any math or reading done, and yet the following school year (9th for my oldest) both kids were just fine.  It wasn't a big deal to get a school routine started again, and neither was "behind".  My kids tended to have strong passions and interests to occupy their time, but there were seasons that passed when nothing engaged them and they spent lots of time staring into space.  Again -- no harm done other than some new grey hairs from my own worrying.  

 

I say you should take the time to just be mom sometimes.  They grow up and leave the nest so soon that you should do all you can to savor the time.  Following a curriculum and set school schedule just doesn't leave those warm, fuzzy memories.

:001_wub:  :001_wub:  :001_wub: is how I feel whenever I read posts by you or corraleno!!

[Murphy101]

Hey Martha,

 

I remember a time when you used Oak Meadow. No more?? (Thinking nature, simple, easier feel...)

I did it more for the arts component for my daughter back in 4th grade. (Good memory! She's almost done with 7th now!) Sadly they don't continue that in upper grades, so I moved on to other things. Tho I do use their world geography and history. :)

[Murphy101]

My older girls were't lazing about. From the time they were 14/15 they had part-time jobs plus doing school. Anything but lazy. Plus I said I occasionally had them babysit and that I didn't have as many children as you.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult you. It really was more of a general question bc everyone says they just love their "built in baby sitters" and seem to be in disbelief that is not actual reality for me.

 

Lazing about does not mean lazy to me. It means not doing anything. Available. Free.

[Murphy101]

The nature of unschooling is children learning all sorts of things that don't look anything like school. Someone who wanted to unschool wouldn't expect "self-directed academics" to occur. :-)

Or more accurately, they wouldn't expect academics to be confined only to certain texts and subjects. :)

[Corraleno]

I flirt with this idea too, then I go over to the high school board, and slink back with my tail between my legs . . .  :huh:

 

Don't slink away! With the exception of math & foreign language, we are very relaxed and interest-led, and I couldn't be happier with the results. DS is starting 9th now, and he's very well prepared. In fact, having had the freedom to explore his interests has allowed him to find his passions and he is already doing college-level work in some areas. But the most important thing is that he's extremely self-motivated and he loves to learn — not for grades or rewards, but because it's the most interesting and enjoyable thing he can think of.

 

The results of our homeschooling "experiment" have far exceeded my expectations, and I know that would not be true if I had stuck to a traditional approach. When I pulled him out of school, he was a school-hating, book-hating, nonreader whose only interest was video games. Now he reads college texts for fun and would much rather watch a Teaching Co lecture on Herodotus than play video games (seriously!).

 

There are many relaxed/interest-led homeschoolers, and even unschoolers, whose kids have been admitted to top colleges and been very successful. You just don't see a lot of them on this particular board, because very few people here take that approach. But people like Jenn and Nan show that not only can it work, it can work extremely well — their kids have gotten scholarships to excellent colleges.

 

 

I especially am tempted to unschool science and history. I buy science kits and they do most of them before we ever start our year. Eldest has been reading about the world wars for a long time on his own and knows as much or more than I do. But at some point, input only doesn't seem like enough.

 

Discussion is output! And IMHO it's the most important kind of output — far more effective and enlightening than filling in worksheets or doing "projects" that the kids have little interest in. I think that output-for-the-sake-of-output is a waste of time and one of the things that kills kids' love of learning. A really lively discussion not only allows the parent to assess what kids have learned, it shows them that the parent is genuinely interested in their thought process and what they have to say, not just checking off a worksheet. 

 

Jackie

[JennW in SoCal]

:001_wub:  :001_wub:  :001_wub: is how I feel whenever I read posts by you or corraleno!!

 

Awww, you are very sweet.  I can sound all full of confidence now that I'm done, of course.  I had many sleepless nights and stressed out days during the homeschool years, though, thanks to truckloads of self doubt.  I just want to help others through the doubt and worry by reassuring them there is a middle ground between unschooling and extremely structured schooling -- the middle ground is different for each family, but it is there and worth the trouble of finding it.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Awww, you are very sweet.  I can sound all full of confidence now that I'm done, of course.  I had many sleepless nights and stressed out days during the homeschool years, though, thanks to truckloads of self doubt.  I just want to help others through the doubt and worry by reassuring them there is a middle ground between unschooling and extremely structured schooling -- the middle ground is different for each family, but it is there and worth the trouble of finding it.

 

 

Don't slink away! With the exception of math & foreign language, we are very relaxed and interest-led, and I couldn't be happier with the results. DS is starting 9th now, and he's very well prepared. In fact, having had the freedom to explore his interests has allowed him to find his passions and he is already doing college-level work in some areas. But the most important thing is that he's extremely self-motivated and he loves to learn — not for grades or rewards, but because it's the most interesting and enjoyable thing he can think of.

 

The results of our homeschooling "experiment" have far exceeded my expectations, and I know that would not be true if I had stuck to a traditional approach. When I pulled him out of school, he was a school-hating, book-hating, nonreader whose only interest was video games. Now he reads college texts for fun and would much rather watch a Teaching Co lecture on Herodotus than play video games (seriously!).

 

There are many relaxed/interest-led homeschoolers, and even unschoolers, whose kids have been admitted to top colleges and been very successful. You just don't see a lot of them on this particular board, because very few people here take that approach. But people like Jenn and Nan show that not only can it work, it can work extremely well — their kids have gotten scholarships to excellent colleges.

 

 

 

Discussion is output! And IMHO it's the most important kind of output — far more effective and enlightening than filling in worksheets or doing "projects" that the kids have little interest in. I think that output-for-the-sake-of-output is a waste of time and one of the things that kills kids' love of learning. A really lively discussion not only allows the parent to assess what kids have learned, it shows them that the parent is genuinely interested in their thought process and what they have to say, not just checking off a worksheet. 

 

Jackie

 

 

Ah, geez, what a great day! Replies from two of my favorite relaxed-homeschooling posters!

 

I do spend a lot of time looking for and trying to stay on that middle ground! And I always like hearing where it can lead.

 

We had a great year last year, pretty balanced I think.  But, I am feeling the need to ramp up (written) output for 6th grade.  Why do I feel this way? (she asks herself)

 

I guess partly because I do feel a little intimidated by high school, and I'm thinking that gradually ramping up to higher expectations/more formal time spent would work better than suddenly demanding more in 9th grade?  What do you guys think about that?  Did you have a gradual transition to more written output, or was it more sudden (maybe when the maturity was there?) or did you not require a lot of written output, period, relying more on discussion?

 

I also am trying to finesse adding dd7 to our homeschool.  In the past, schooling just one, we did discussion about every subject, either right after reading it together or right after she read something - and it was easy to be spontaneous & responsive, because it was just one kid.  But now, I'll need a couple hours a day to focus on dd7 (I think . . . feeling nervous about being too relaxed with her, too, I guess)  and so I feel like dd10 needs to do some more written output, b/c I won't be able to be quite so "on call" for discussions with reading.

 

I don't really know what is the right amount, either now for 6th grade, or for high school.  Last year, she basically did one "piece" of writing each day, either WWS *or* writing across the curriculum (usually these were multi-day assignments, not writing a separate thing each day).  This year I'm planning on requiring more written output, mostly adding notetaking and outlining in history, as well as continuing to write about books for lit.  I feel like building outlining/notetaking skills is important, I don't think it's busywork, but how much is too much?  All I can do is make a plan and adjust it according to what works for my kid, I guess . . . 

 

Sorry, Martha, for this digression, but this is a great thread and since I know Jenn and Jackie are *both* reading it, I couldn't resist . . .  ;)

[briansmama]

Awww, you are very sweet. I can sound all full of confidence now that I'm done, of course. I had many sleepless nights and stressed out days during the homeschool years, though, thanks to truckloads of self doubt. I just want to help others through the doubt and worry by reassuring them there is a middle ground between unschooling and extremely structured schooling -- the middle ground is different for each family, but it is there and worth the trouble of finding it.

I love reading your posts too, Jenn. Thanks for this- I am going to spend some time this summer pondering that "middle ground" because I see so much value and enjoyment that comes from interest-led learning.

[quark]

I have only 10% the number of kids (and possibly experience too) that OP does. Please take this with a huge helping of salt.

 

We tend to school in "seasons". We often have structured seasons, eclectic seasons and one or two unschooled seasons. A slightly longer unschooling experiment a few years ago revealed the results of all the "mind training" I was trying to achieve. We are not WTM-ers per se but I do try to follow some of the ideas...if I had not given DS that time to unschool, I wouldn't have been able to see how he applies what he has learned. So I see the unschooling periods as real-life application time. Every unschooling season either reveals a new interest or drives home that existing interests are deeper than I thought they were. He applies what he learns in math, physics, literature etc without directing from me. I get to see the effect of tools I had earlier chosen to use with him. I am often interested/ intrigued by the resources he chooses to use during this period. It's not necessarily a less busy or less involved time but it does give us a good sense of where we should be paying more attention when we choose to become structured again.

 

The point being...why not take 2 weeks to experiment? Or 10 days. Or a week. It will give you a better idea of whether your children will benefit, which child will benefit most, what needs tweaking in your overall approach, whether *you* love or hate it, and so on?

[Corraleno]

I've been thinking the exact same thing! We didn't get to math yesterday (the only required lesson for ds over the summer) because he wanted to work on his book he's writing. He was immersed in writing nearly all day and I didn't want to stop him. So I started revisiting my inner unschool fantasies for fall  ;)

The problem for us is that if both ds have their way they'd play outside all day most days, so very little self-directed academics would occur. But, when I require math, music, science, history, and lit, it leaves very little time for self-directed projects like writing books!

I too have their curriculum all ready to go, and I love what we're using. They are great about doing their work. But goodness, there is only so much time in the day and when they are inspired to work on their own projects/learning it's pretty amazing to see!

I too keep flirting with this idea, and the notion that if we do just language arts and math, they can pursue everything else on their own. Sigh.

Yes, it's the same here - my kids don't spend their free time on any kind of self-directed academics  besides reading books, lots of books.  They spend it playing outside,  or on crafty projects, or playing with breyer horses, or something like that.  When we add in academics, all the free time is spent thusly, and so no self-directed academics happens.  I like to fantasize that they would spend "free" time on something I consider important academically, but they don't.  So, I just try to do that stuff as efficiently and effectively as possible, because I think free time to play is really important for these ages.  I can't have it both (all three?) ways, though.

 

 

I think maybe some of the expectations about "self-directed academics" are unrealistic, especially in the younger years. That's one reason I use the term interest-led rather than self-directed or child-led: younger kids, and even older kids who are not used to directing their own learning, still need a "facilitator" — training wheels, so to speak. In the beginning, there may be a LOT of facilitating, but as kids get older, and they learn how to do research and find resources on their own, they do become genuinely self-motivated and self-directed.

 

As Ishki pointed out upthread, initially this can take a lot more effort on the part of the parent, compared to using a standard curriculum — but IMHO it's a lot more fun and interesting and less stressful than always worrying about staying on schedule, fighting with kids to do work they find boring or pointless, correcting work that even the parent may find boring or pointless, etc. I like Joanne's parenting philosophy — Get Off Your Butt Parenting — and I think of interest-led learning as Get Off Your Butt Homeschooling. The key, for me, is to jump on kids' questions and interests as they arise. If DD is staring out the window at a hailstorm and asks why hail is round and what determines how big it gets and how can there be frozen ice in the sky when it's 90 degrees out, I say "Great questions! Let's find out..." and I get off my butt, go to the computer with her, and we look it up right then and there. That will often lead to lots of other questions & research.

 

There are very few days without questions. Why was there such a plague of moths last year? How many mosquitos can a bat eat in one night? What would happen if bats disappeared? How come we used to see so many honeybees and now we hardly see any? Why is the dirt in our yard like clay and our friends who live 2 miles away have pure sand? Hiking and local nature walks have led to research on porcupines, beavers, racoons, coyotes, assorted snakes and lizards, and all kinds of birds. We collect pond & river water and study all the critters under a microscope and in an "ecosystem tank."

 

We go to the planetarium and astronomy club "star parties" and we build Galileoscopes and observe the sky. Studying the constellations ties to mythology; seeing a planetarium show on Mayan cosmology leads to reading books about the Maya which leads to DS doing research on the Mayan language and how Mayan glyphs were deciphered, and asking me to buy him a copy of the Popul Vuh, which leads to great discussions about "hero quest" myths in ancient cultures. We watch documentaries and read books and do experiments and go to the zoo and the Natural History Museum and we talk and talk and talk about everything. 

 

The other half of the phrase "self-directed academics" is the academic part, and I think it helps to loosen up in terms of what one considers "academic." The way schools divide up the process of learning into discrete academic "subjects" is quite artificial. Learning is so much bigger than that: exploring, creating, playing, imagining are all really important aspects of learning, not just "extras" that it's nice to squeeze in if there's time after the "real" learning is done. Those things are real learning — and for younger children they are far more important IMHO than labeling science diagrams or filling out history worksheets. They are part of how children learn how to learn, how to gather and process and incorporate new information, and they are a big part of "lighting the fire."

 

I think traditional schooling places far too much emphasis on "filling the bucket" full of names and dates and facts, and it's even worse when filling the bucket itself becomes secondary to regurgitating the contents of the bucket — as if the worksheets and the quizzes are the goal and not merely a way of measuring how much "stuff" made it into the bucket! So I choose to spend the early years concentrating on lighting the fire, and allowing them to fill their own buckets with things they find interesting and engaging and worth collecting. So far, that approach has been very effective in encouraging the characteristics I'd hope to see in my kids: they are self-motivated, they love learning, and we have a great relationship. 

 

Jackie

[birchbark]

But input IS enough until high school.  Most of the output about science, literature and history in our house was in the form of discussions until high school, and even then it was no more than an essay a week.  Writing was either narrations or short research topics, just for the writing practice, or it was creative writing.  But discussions were where they learned to form and defend their own opinions, and where I got a sense of what they were absorbing, what they were thinking about or interested in.

 

Now THIS is lovely. I think I'm going to print it out and frame it!

 

Jenn, thanks for sticking around the boards to share your advice even though you've put your time in. I highly value the perspective from the experienced veterans!

[texasmama]

Discussion is output! And IMHO it's the most important kind of output — far more effective and enlightening than filling in worksheets or doing "projects" that the kids have little interest in. I think that output-for-the-sake-of-output is a waste of time and one of the things that kills kids' love of learning. A really lively discussion not only allows the parent to assess what kids have learned, it shows them that the parent is genuinely interested in their thought process and what they have to say, not just checking off a worksheet. 

 

(Tried to quote Jenn, but it didn't work...)

 

This is so very much where I am coming from and going.  We are very much about verbal output here.

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

Discussion is output! And IMHO it's the most important kind of output — far more effective and enlightening than filling in worksheets or doing "projects" that the kids have little interest in. I think that output-for-the-sake-of-output is a waste of time and one of the things that kills kids' love of learning. A really lively discussion not only allows the parent to assess what kids have learned, it shows them that the parent is genuinely interested in their thought process and what they have to say, not just checking off a worksheet. 

 

(Tried to quote Jenn, but it didn't work...)

 

This is so very much where I am coming from and going.  We are very much about verbal output here.

 

 

I totally agree that discussion is output, important output, and that it is far more effective than things like worksheets or "projects" - we do none of either around here.  But what about written output - compositions, research reports, essays, etc. for the middle school kid? Isn't there a place for this kind of output in preparing them for the writing they will need to be able to do in high school/college/work/life?  And my kids aren't going to do a lot of interest-led writing assignments! 

 

So for me, it feels like where I need to focus the "academic" part of school is on math, writing instruction, and reading-to-learn, and this does involve written output, it can't all be discussion.  Right? 

[Murphy101]

 So for me, it feels like where I need to focus the "academic" part of school is on math, writing instruction, and reading-to-learn, and this does involve written output, it can't all be discussion.  Right?

 

Idk.

 

It was good enough for the ancients and middle ages for the most part. Paper was time consuming and expensive. Even when they did write, it was usually reserved for formal long pieces, not normally a few paragraphs or short essays. In the schools, especially the younger years, it was often entirely oral recitation and discussion.

[momto2Cs]

Why wouldn't you?  It sounds lovely.

 

 

Now see, that is a shame because many of us who were relaxed homeschoolers through high school have kids who are very successful college students.    

 

 

But input IS enough until high school.  Most of the output about science, literature and history in our house was in the form of discussions until high school, and even then it was no more than an essay a week.  Writing was either narrations or short research topics, just for the writing practice, or it was creative writing.  But discussions were where they learned to form and defend their own opinions, and where I got a sense of what they were absorbing, what they were thinking about or interested in.

 

 LOL!  I haven't seen Sandra Dodd mentioned on these boards in years!  I too would use the word unschooling to describe the bulk of our homeschool and yet it wasn't fully and completely unschooled.  Part of it was very WTM and part of it was a relaxed hybrid.  Perhaps it was a Charlotte Mason style because it was academics in the morning (the 3Rs) followed by afternoons for interests.  

 

Sometimes it is necessary to take a break from long, structured days of homeschooling.  Math, reading and foreign language together make a terrific foundation for a homeschool.  You don't have to let the kids play video games or watch cartoons when these few subjects are done, rather you can make it a rule that no electronic entertainment is allowed until 4 or 5pm.  Legos and crafts are fabulous activities, as is digging in the dirt outside.  Some days you can play along, others you can do all those pesky household chores.  Every once in a while, even during the high school years, I'd just decide we were all going to the zoo.  Or to the movies. Or out to lunch.  

 

We took summers completely off.  No math, no assignments.  Shoot, due to life one year we barely managed to get any math or reading done, and yet the following school year (9th for my oldest) both kids were just fine.  It wasn't a big deal to get a school routine started again, and neither was "behind".  My kids tended to have strong passions and interests to occupy their time, but there were seasons that passed when nothing engaged them and they spent lots of time staring into space.  Again -- no harm done other than some new grey hairs from my own worrying.  

 

I say you should take the time to just be mom sometimes.  They grow up and leave the nest so soon that you should do all you can to savor the time.  Following a curriculum and set school schedule just doesn't leave those warm, fuzzy memories.

 

 

:001_wub:  :001_wub:  :001_wub: is how I feel whenever I read posts by you or corraleno!!

 

I feel the same way about these posts! :wub: :wub: :wub:  Especially the bolded bits.

 

 

Don't slink away! With the exception of math & foreign language, we are very relaxed and interest-led, and I couldn't be happier with the results. DS is starting 9th now, and he's very well prepared. In fact, having had the freedom to explore his interests has allowed him to find his passions and he is already doing college-level work in some areas. But the most important thing is that he's extremely self-motivated and he loves to learn — not for grades or rewards, but because it's the most interesting and enjoyable thing he can think of.

 

The results of our homeschooling "experiment" have far exceeded my expectations, and I know that would not be true if I had stuck to a traditional approach. When I pulled him out of school, he was a school-hating, book-hating, nonreader whose only interest was video games. Now he reads college texts for fun and would much rather watch a Teaching Co lecture on Herodotus than play video games (seriously!).

 

There are many relaxed/interest-led homeschoolers, and even unschoolers, whose kids have been admitted to top colleges and been very successful. You just don't see a lot of them on this particular board, because very few people here take that approach. But people like Jenn and Nan show that not only can it work, it can work extremely well — their kids have gotten scholarships to excellent colleges.

 

 

 

Discussion is output! And IMHO it's the most important kind of output — far more effective and enlightening than filling in worksheets or doing "projects" that the kids have little interest in. I think that output-for-the-sake-of-output is a waste of time and one of the things that kills kids' love of learning. A really lively discussion not only allows the parent to assess what kids have learned, it shows them that the parent is genuinely interested in their thought process and what they have to say, not just checking off a worksheet. 

 

Jackie

And I love this too! :wub:

 

 

Now THIS is lovely. I think I'm going to print it out and frame it!

 

Jenn, thanks for sticking around the boards to share your advice even though you've put your time in. I highly value the perspective from the experienced veterans!

I'm thinking I should print out like 90% of this thread (and the interest led education one, the HUGE one with 8FillTheHeart's wonderful posts) and put those on the fridge instead of a schedule!

 

 

 

Discussion is output! And IMHO it's the most important kind of output — far more effective and enlightening than filling in worksheets or doing "projects" that the kids have little interest in. I think that output-for-the-sake-of-output is a waste of time and one of the things that kills kids' love of learning. A really lively discussion not only allows the parent to assess what kids have learned, it shows them that the parent is genuinely interested in their thought process and what they have to say, not just checking off a worksheet. 

 

(Tried to quote Jenn, but it didn't work...)

 

This is so very much where I am coming from and going.  We are very much about verbal output here.

 

Absolutely. We have fantastic discussions, all unplanned, that are far better in terms of telling me what's going on in their heads than worksheets!

 

And now I am mad at you all. :angry:  Not really, but I spent hours (again) planning out the "perfect" homeschooling year, which I have been having my fair share of doubts about, and thinking I was maybe right years ago, and just need to let go a little. :001_unsure:

[briansmama]

I'm trying to figure out how to apply my ideal "middle ground" and I'm still having trouble figuring out how to cover science, history, and language arts without a roadmap. Can those relaxed/interest-led middle ground veterans offer any insight? I don't want to hijack this thread though so OP, if this isn't helpful to you as well please let me know. I also don't want to start a new thread on interest-led learning and interrupt what was started here. Hope that's ok!

 

I'm set on math for both dc and phonics/reading practice through literature for my k/1st grader. But, I was planning to use a literature-based curriculum for language arts/history/science. It meshes together the projects/experiments/Booklist/discussion questions/grammar/spelling/writing instruction. I also know from trying it out recently that it will take up the bulk of our lesson time.

 

I've thought about asking my dc what they'd like to learn about that month and ordering the necessary experiments/documentaries/audiobooks/books from the library needed and maybe doing weekly summaries/discussions on the topics.

 

Can Jenn, Corraleno, and any others chime in on how they handled science/history/language arts with their dc?

[elegantlion]

Ugh, you people. I adore you all. You're making me want to rip up the schedule I've made and wing it. 

 

We do a lot of discussion at the high school level. I found a rubric I used last year. If you scroll down to Oral Presentations, it's Example 1: Oral exam. http://www.cmu.edu/teaching/designteach/teach/rubrics.html

 

I came up with about 5 - 10 questions pertinent to his assignment. In one class, it was per chapter. I used the rubric as assessment and some Socratic dialogue questions. I also would take "devil's advocate" position sometimes. I would also bring up questions from other viewpoints, things peers might ask if he were in a group. We often ran off on tangents and the whole process was great for seeing where his thinking was, and if he could articulate his position well. 

[Murphy101]

I'm thinking more and more about this....

 

I know I want to focus on these as my "core":

Math

Booklist

Latin (via tutor for middles, MP for me and youngers)

French (via open learning)

Russian (via 2nd born, who has been buying a bit here and there to keep his Russian going now that he can no longer take classes in it)

Arabic (looking still. Ds#3 has put in a request for this one)

Classically Catholic Memory Delta level

WWE4 for one middler and WWS for 3 other middles. (+ 3rd born has requested poetry, 4th born is going to do LLfLotR, but I'm not really discussing this for high school)

Art/projects

 

My very tentative basic plan for foreign language is to have one formal lesson per week in each. That would be when we watched the videos and such. The rest of the week, we would work on labeling things or marking the dry erase boards with the vocab for the week.

 

Our reading lists would be a mix of history, science, classics and cultural selections. I would give one or two writing assignments from these each week.

 

On the one hand, this sounds dauntingly teacher intensive, but then again, I won't have a ton of stuff to grade either. I think it might even out time wise.

 

It won't be the same thing every day, so possibly less boring.

 

But I already have all these other materials. Sigh. I wonder if I could ease into it... Not so much drop what we are doing, just not continue it when done and add more reading/languages instead.... Hmmm.

[momto2Cs]

I'm thinking more and more about this....

 

I know I want to focus on these as my "core":

Math

Booklist

Latin (via tutor for middles, MP for me and youngers)

French (via open learning)

Russian (via 2nd born, who has been buying a bit here and there to keep his Russian going now that he can no longer take classes in it)

Arabic (looking still. Ds#3 has put in a request for this one)

Classically Catholic Memory Delta level

WWE4 for one middler and WWS for 3 other middles. (+ 3rd born has requested poetry, 4th born is going to do LLfLotR, but I'm not really discussing this for high school)

Art/projects

 

My very tentative basic plan for foreign language is to have one formal lesson per week in each. That would be when we watched the videos and such. The rest of the week, we would work on labeling things or marking the dry erase boards with the vocab for the week.

 

Our reading lists would be a mix of history, science, classics and cultural selections. I would give one or two writing assignments from these each week.

 

On the one hand, this sounds dauntingly teacher intensive, but then again, I won't have a ton of stuff to grade either. I think it might even out time wise.

 

It won't be the same thing every day, so possibly less boring.

 

But I already have all these other materials. Sigh. I wonder if I could ease into it... Not so much drop what we are doing, just not continue it when done and add more reading/languages instead.... Hmmm.

 

Martha,

 

I am thinking more and more about it too. I even made an outline! (super geek that I am)

 

I'm thinking...

 

Daily:

Math

Language Arts (reading, writing, spelling, etc.)

Latin, or at least Greek and Latin roots

Reading from various good books, along with Shakespeare stories, poetry, and so forth

And reading, discussion from history and science related books of their choice. Documentaries and biographies would work too.

 

Weekly:

A chapter from a history overview (example; A Little History of the World, Gombrich)

A chapter from a good science book (example: A Really Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson)

A chapter from a Richard Halliburton book (really good travelogues, though a bit outdated)

 

As Desired, on a regular basis:

Hands-on projects from any of the multitude of science project and history project books I own already

Art

We listen to a lot of music

Practical skills (housework, laundry, basic carpentry, first aid, etc.)

 

ETA; And fwiw, I put links to BOTH my possible plans in my signature.

Edited July 24, 2013 by momto2Cs

[Murphy101]

I made a flow chart of the week/days. I so love me a purdy excel spread sheet. This and coffee were the highlights of my day. :)

[texasmama]

I totally agree that discussion is output, important output, and that it is far more effective than things like worksheets or "projects" - we do none of either around here.  But what about written output - compositions, research reports, essays, etc. for the middle school kid? Isn't there a place for this kind of output in preparing them for the writing they will need to be able to do in high school/college/work/life?  And my kids aren't going to do a lot of interest-led writing assignments! 

 

So for me, it feels like where I need to focus the "academic" part of school is on math, writing instruction, and reading-to-learn, and this does involve written output, it can't all be discussion.  Right? 

My oldest son has a relative but significant weakness in writing.  It is well-documented through testing.  So I have needed to adjust my expectations. (Liberal arts degree mom with a minor in English and a journalism background here!)  The piece of classical education that is the grammar stage has always appealed to me, and that stage has been stretched somewhat for my oldest son.  We have also used SL for history and literature so our emphasis has been on read alouds and discussion.  So heavy oral output was a natural jump with all of those factors combined in the soup.

 

But I didn't answer your question, did I?  :)  And that is just one of my kids.  lol  My oldest son is doing WWS1.  He started mid-year last year, and worked halfway through the program.  He will finish it half-pace this year, taking all year to do it.  He will be in 7th grade this coming year.  Other than his WWS work, I don't require writing.  Not yet.  Not for this kid.  My other kids will be in 2nd and 5th.  The 5th grader will be doing WWS1 this coming year, maybe half-pace, taking two years.  I haven't decided on that one, yet.  So yes, writing is important.  In fact, due to my background, it is very important.  Just not all in middle school.  (But all of this is theoretical since I have not actually had any middle school students yet so take it as such.)  My plan for writing is to ride on SWB's WWS coattails all the way through the program.  I trust her, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel she is inventing.  If I had a slightly different life (fewer kids, no part time job), I might really enjoy doing more of it myself.  But I quite happily leave it to her to invent this particular wheel.  That's my MO for almost all of our homeschooling.  I'm a great follower.  :)

 

Math - very important and my boys' strength.  We take math output very seriously.  If there is a way to do math with discussion, I have not found it, so yes, there is plenty of output in math.  Math will get quite a lot of our attention next year.

 

Reading-to-learn - no written output at this point.  Not yet.   It would overwhelm my 7th grader, and my two youngers aren't ready.  They all read quite a bit, mostly unassigned self-led interest reading such as gardening, weather, world wars, animals, etc.  My 7th grader knows more about the weather and gardening than I will ever know.  He is just interested in it so he reads tons on the topics and remembers what he reads.  It's the best science class I never taught.  :D  Interestingly, he does some self-led written output on his interests.  It is not in paragraph form, but he keeps records on plants and weather so it is more scientific data.  He makes notebooks for these on his own.  If he takes 8th grade science year after next in co-op, which is the plan, he will be doing a science experiment for the co-op science fair.  I saw this fair last year, and it was pretty impressive.  It will involve written output, but he can choose the topic so I would imagine it will be horticulture-related.  Watch for a new blueberry hybrid called the "Nathan variety".  :)

 

I don't know that I have really answered your question yet.  Although my approach has been molded by one child's needs, I think I am not sorry that it happened that way.  I think I like the road it has us on, so much so that I might put everyone on it.  I know what to do if someone wants to write creatively, but that is optional.  I actually had my boys do part of The Paragraph Book 1 this summer.  They know how to write a paragraph.  So I stick some instruction in here and there.  Mostly, I am waiting.  I think that when my boys are ready (and it might be early high school-ish, they will be able to learn to do the sort of writing that you speak of as preparing them for college fairly simply.  I believe the groundwork is being laid now by filling their little minds with interesting information and assigning WWS.  Ask me in about ten years how it worked out.  :)

[texasmama]

Martha,

 

I am thinking more and more about it too. I even made an outline! (super geek that I am)

 

I'm thinking...

 

Daily:

Math

Language Arts (reading, writing, spelling, etc.)

Latin, or at least Greek and Latin roots

Reading from various good books, along with Shakespeare stories, poetry, and so forth

And reading, discussion from history and science related books of their choice. Documentaries and biographies would work too.

 

Weekly:

A chapter from a history overview (example; A Little History of the World, Gombrich)

A chapter from a good science book (example: A Really Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson)

A chapter from a Richard Halliburton book (really good travelogues, though a bit outdated)

 

As Desired, on a regular basis:

Hands-on projects from any of the multitude of science project and history project books I own already

Art

We listen to a lot of music

Practical skills (housework, laundry, basic carpentry, first aid, etc.)

 

ETA; And fwiw, I put links to BOTH my possible plans in my signature.

You're a supergeek, supergeek!  You're supergeeky! Yow!  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

Can I say that I love how you put links to both of your possible plans in your siggie.  :D

[texasmama]

Martha, I like your plan...not that I know what I'm doing or have ever had a middle schooler, but I LIKE it! 

[Corraleno]

I guess partly because I do feel a little intimidated by high school, and I'm thinking that gradually ramping up to higher expectations/more formal time spent would work better than suddenly demanding more in 9th grade?  What do you guys think about that?  Did you have a gradual transition to more written output, or was it more sudden (maybe when the maturity was there?) or did you not require a lot of written output, period, relying more on discussion?

 

I think this is one of the things that varies most from child to child. I only have 2, and they are very different, so I am taking slightly different approaches with them, although there are some underlying principles in common. The three most important underlying principles, for me, are: 

 

(1) I generally don't teach a skill until I feel that the child is really ready for it.

 

In my experience, waiting until they have the maturity, background, ability for abstract thinking, etc., to be really successful at something results in faster progress, with much less stress and frustration, versus slogging away for years at a skill they struggle with.

 

And I truly do. not. care. if that time frame is different — even radically different — from the PS schedule, or what WTM recommends, or what Ed Hirsch says X Graders Should Know. My DD could not tell time until halfway through 3rd grade. But then, in a couple of days, not only could she tell me what time it would be in 45 minutes, or how long we would be gone if we left at X time and would return at Y, she could tell me what time it was "at Oma's house" (in England), and she understood that "time zones" are based on the rotation of the earth, why we have "daylight savings time," and lots of other things. It would have been pointless for me to keep hammering away at it with MM worksheets for two years. Instead, I just talked about it casually, answered questions, and then when she was ready, BOOM, it was all there, effortlessly, in a couple of days. I've done the same with other math topics, with various aspects of grammar and writing, etc. 

 

(2) There are a LOT of ways to teach the components of writing, many of which do not involve actual writing (or at least, writing assignments).

 

I think the trouble with a lot of writing programs, especially when dealing with a struggling or reluctant writer, is that there are too many skills thrown at the kid at once, and they are expected to produce something that looks like "real writing" long before they have the prerequisite skills to do so. The result is that they learn to hate writing even more, and become convinced that they are "terrible at writing." 

 

With DD, I have taught a lot of the mechanics — basic capitalization and punctuation, sequencing, introductory sentences, which sentences should be grouped together in a paragraph and which need a new paragraph, etc. — through letters and emails. She loves to write to her cousins and grandparents, she has no shortage of things she wants to write about (versus being stuck with a "writing prompt" that draws a complete blank), and she is happy to accept suggestions and corrections because there is no pressure or grade attached to an email or letter. She also sometimes likes to write creative stories, or spontaneous "reports" on things she's studying; since the motivation and the content are coming from her, there is no pressure, and she's happy to have suggestions and corrections. And she's an excellent typist, which is a skill I also like to have in place before assigning writing projects — it takes away a lot of the angst over rewrites.

 

With DS, who came out of PS with an extreme aversion to writing, I've take a slightly different tack. He doesn't like writing letters or stories, but he does have to type up long translations for his Greek & Latin classes, so he gets basic mechanics there. However, he doesn't need a lot of instruction in that area because he reads a LOT of academic writing (by choice), so he absorbs what good academic writing looks like. Plus he's really interested in linguistics, so once he understands the "rule," he has no trouble applying it.

 

(3) I dislike the approach of teaching kids a "formula" for writing before they have anything to say, or any desire to say it.

 

I prefer to focus on the skills that underlie good writing: the ability to analyze other people's arguments and essays, develop strong opinions, support those opinions with facts, counter other opinions, and argue your case in a persuasive way. ALL of those things can be done through reading, listening to speeches, watching academic lectures, and lots of discussion. In fact, I would argue that discussion is better preparation for writing than lots of writing assignments on banal topics where the only point is to practice applying a formula. That has been my approach with DS: lots of reading, lots of TC lectures (watched together, with me pointing out aspects of the argument, how the lecturer presents opposing theories and refutes them, etc.), and lots and LOTS of discussion and Socratic questioning: What do you think the author/speaker/lecturer meant by that? Why do you think he believes that? Was the evidence he presented convincing to you? Do you think he presented opposing arguments fairly? Did he leave out any evidence that might contradict his theory? Etc.

 

I did not make DS write in middle school. Seriously — no writing! Disaster, right? There's no way he could possibly be prepared for high school!!!

 

I recently bought a volume of essays on Classical culture and literature; it's part of a series called History in Dispute, which consists of pairs of essays on contentious topics, with two experts in the field arguing opposites sides of various issues. As I was reading some of the essay questions to DS, he started answering them. One question was about the nature of translation, and whether it's possible to truly understand a work of literature through translation of if too much of the meaning is lost. DS immediately launched into a discussion of a specific word in the Iliad, which is almost always translated as "lost" but which also carries the connotation of "killed or destroyed," and how this adds a much deeper dimension to Achilles' rage when you understand that it's fueled by guilt as well as grief. This was repeated several times, with me reading out essay questions, and him responding with what were essentially spontaneous oral essays.

 

One question was "Does Herodotus deserve the title of 'The Father of History'?" He jumped all over that one, with a background "paragraph" on the Ionian Enlightenment, the role of logographers, and how Herodotus built on that; followed by several "paragraphs" on the ways in which Herodotus's approach differed (including paraphrases of specific things he wrote); a summary of opposing views and a rebuttal of them; and a conclusion: The concepts and methods of "history" may have changed and evolved radically since Herodotus's time, and although we might not call his work good history by today's standards, he still deserves the title Father of History because his intent was to create an accurate, objective record, and that is what separates history from mythology. (Thank you, Elizabeth Vandiver! ;) )

 

Then he sat down, read a bunch of the essays, and asked me to please teach him to write like that.  :D The key is that he now knows how to think like that, which is 90% of the writing process. And now he also has enough knowledge, in areas he's passionate about, to want to write about it. He wants to join "the great conversation" on history and literature and linguistics. I know that he would not be where he is if I had made him slog, sobbing, through years of narration and dictation and writing assignments.

 

I'm definitely NOT (not not NOT!) trying to say that that approach doesn't work well for some kids. I'm just saying that there are other approaches that also work well, and for some kids they may be much more effective. But it does take a certain leap of faith, so I just want to encourage other parents who think that approach might work for them (or who know that the other approaches are not working) to give it a go.

 

Jackie

[JennW in SoCal]

 Can those relaxed/interest-led middle ground veterans offer any insight? I don't want to hijack this thread though so OP, if this isn't helpful to you as well please let me know. I also don't want to start a new thread on interest-led learning and interrupt what was started here. Hope that's ok!

 

Well, let's see if I can offer some ideas and insight on the method to my madness.  And this is just history/science and literature madness -- math was a set text, logic was workbooks, grammar was a set program which I may or may not have followed dutifully.  I did plan for history and literature a year at a time, and I despaired over middle school science.  I used as my road map the WTM and common sense.  For instance, when I realized that my kids, through their interests, were well versed only in basic physical science, I'd find some biology for us to read or do.  

 

I am also describing middle school. Elementary was only math, reading, dictations and copy work, some grammar and spelling.  Everything else was interest led, exploration based.  The Story of the World wasn't around when I started homeschooling -- I just read aloud:  mythology, fiction and lots of kid science books.  The tv and computer were off limits til late afternoon, so they had to read or create, and they did.

 

So middle school.  I started each summer, as I'm sure most of you do, by making long lists of books and documentaries, hoping to find as much in my local library as possible.  I directed their reading during the year, though sometimes they'd be off on their own tangent.  We'd read a work, watch a movie adaptation or watch a documentary on that period of history.  We'd discuss what we read, what we liked and disliked, and we'd tear apart (usually) any movie adaptations we saw.  I'd assign a short research topic on a person or place, more for writing practice than for the sake of output.  Sometimes I'd have them draw a map or fill in a blank map related to the topic.  

 

There was lots of serendipity, too.  Sometimes we'd read about and study something not on my original planned list because there was an exhibit at the museum or because NOVA had a particularly good episode.  Any time we traveled I'd drag the family to a local natural history museum.   If we went to see a play and there was a lecture afterwards, we'd stay for the lecture.  We grabbed any opportunity that came up for behind the scenes tours.

 

Middle school science was hard because I felt my kids were ready conceptually for so much more than was available, yet their math wasn't advanced enough or their reading not quite ready for high school text books.  I assigned lots of copy work from the big Usborne science encyclopedia.  The copy work included copying out diagrams and labeling things.   We did nature journals.  We went to astronomy club meetings and took part in Project Feeder Watch.  They built things and tinkered with electronics, learned programming, did robotics.  And we watched every single NOVA, NOVA Science Now and Mythbusters episode on tv.  

 

Actually, they really enjoyed non-fiction during their early teen years such as  Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything, Neil deGrasse Tyson's books such as Death by Black Hole, Temple Grandin's books on animals, Michio Kaku's physics books.  They gleaned lots of science and history from those books.

 

Do my kids have gaps in their knowledge?  Heck yeah!  But so do kids who have followed the most prescribed curricula.  Not everything sticks, no matter how methodical we try to be in stuffing their heads full of knowledge.  What my kids DO have is a joy of learning.  They are interested in their classes in college, they ask questions, talk to the professor, they attend campus lectures on topics outside their major.  They research things they don't know about but are interested in.  They can't get over how disinterested and disengaged their college peers are.  And they have a good relationship with me. One of my sons and I still trade books and our best conversations are usually about what one or the other of us is reading.

 

Last Christmas, as we were finishing up dinner, we were talking about their homeschool experience, and both boys thanked me for the approach I took.  They appreciate all the books we shared, the excursions to the library, the zoo, the museums, the plays and to all the lectures and events they had rolled their eyes over.  They can see that they got an unusual yet exceptional education.  And they keep telling me to write a book, but instead I post here from time to time!

 

I don't know if that helps or detracts more from the OP's questions!

[Murphy101]

 

ETA; And fwiw, I put links to BOTH my possible plans in my signature.

 

Option A... option B.... SQUIRREL!!

 

I just printed off your Narnia booklist... 

 

*smh at myself*

[Corraleno]

On the one hand, this sounds dauntingly teacher intensive, but then again, I won't have a ton of stuff to grade either. I think it might even out time wise.

 

It won't be the same thing every day, so possibly less boring.

 

But I already have all these other materials. Sigh.

 

It is intensive, but (IMHO) in a much more interesting way, and one which is much less likely to lead to burnout — for everyone. And I think it does even out time wise; instead of having to pre-read lots of curriculum, schedule it all out, implement/manage it, and then grade the output, you get to read really interesting books and discuss them! And you don't have the stress of juggling schedules and worrying about being "behind" if life gets in the way — or you just want to take advantage of gorgeous weather and do a day of nature study, or head to the zoo when the new baby giraffe is born, or whatever.

 

As for all the materials... what helped me get over the idea of needing to "do it all" was thinking of all those books and resources I'd collected as "reference material" instead of things that had to be done. It's there if we need it, and if we don't need it, then there was no point in wasting time doing it, kwim? 

 

Jackie

[briansmama]

Jenn, thank you so much for taking the time to write that! I'm going to be re-reading that post for a while, I think :) Loved hearing how you did things with your dc, and especially loved hearing that they even thanked you for it recently.

 

I'm watching my dc and noticing that so much of this really comes down to time. I need to find a way to keep our days relaxed. I dislike checklists day in and day out. Time to sit on this for a while....