If you signed a kid up for two weeks of outdoorsy camp, and she was miserable after the first week... (UPDATE IN POST 20)

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

...would you make her go the second week? 

 

My DD7, who had worked herself up into a minor panic with nerves the night before, is having a blast at Girl Scout day camp this week. My DD10, who had no fears or concerns heading into the week and was looking forward to camp, is more unhappy with each day that passes. She's not an outdoorsy kid to begin with, but she'll tolerate it if she's really engaged; however, it's been hot and very humid this week. She likes the activities she's doing, but she doesn't like the traipsing all over the camp for (what seem to her) unnecessary reasons (e.g., having to walk uphill 15 minutes in 90-degree heat to get to the pool, walk back to get their things and change, walk back again for closing flag ceremonies, and walk over to the parent pickup area). She also thought they'd be spending more time in the pool, but they spend most of it doing swim lessons (they both hate that) and only 15 minutes or so actually swimming and playing.

 

I had told them that because we paid upfront for this camp and they chose their sessions, they would have to stick it out, even if they didn't love it. But she was near tears this morning, just barely holding it in :( I'm going to have her finish out this week, but I'm wondering if I should make her go to next week's session or see if I can maybe have them transfer the amount paid for DD10's second week into a third week for DD7. DD10 was originally looking forward to next week's track (cooking and baking), but I'd probably have to call today if I want to move the money/kids around, so if I give her a chance to try next week and she still hates it, I'll lose the money totally. I don't want to say anything to her, because I don't want to get her hopes up, and because I'd like to see her try to make the best of this in spite of the challenges. 

 

Another, smaller but still important aspect of this is that I really, REALLY need some time to myself, and this was how I was supposed to get it. The idea of losing one of my weeks makes me want to cry, but if she's that miserable, I'd consider stuffing my own needs to keep her from being so unhappy. 

 

WWYD? Would you free your kid from her misery and just resign yourself to losing the time to yourself and the money? Or would you chalk it up to building character and make her stick out the two weeks, no matter how unhappy she is?

 

 

[swellmomma]

I would make them stick it out.  Particularily since the child is 10. You have already paid, the commitment has been made.  We follow through on our commitments, even if they are not our favorite things.  She is not being abused or maltreated at camp, she is just not getting what she wants basically.  So yeah I would let the tears fall and say see you at the end of the week.  It is only 1 week, not a lifetime.  It's a totally different track so she may find that she loves it this week.  But I am mean like that I guess.  If it was the 7 year old I would likely move the money/kids around, but at 10 they are old enough to buck up and finish what they started.

[MeghanL]

Since she stuck out the first week, I wouldn't require they went the second week. She wasn't sure whether or  not she would like it. I think making kids stick things out that they end up hating just ends up preventing them from trying new things. I'd move the money around and let her not go the second week.

[Julie Smith]

Something like this happened to me as a kid. The camp was badly organized lots of pointless going back and forth. (ie. lets go to the pool. Oh, Sue forgot her swim gear - we all walk back to get it. Then we all wait when she changes. Then we get in the pool. Oh, our time is over. Time to get out. Get changed, wait 30 minutes for the other kids to get changed since they were being silly and took a long time... )

 

Well since it was paid for I was made to finish. Well I swore I would never sign up for anything again since I wouldn't be allowed to quit if it wasn't as advertised. So I never did sign up for anything again till I was an adult and left home. I do admit I am stubborn.

[jennynd]

If the reason is simply too hot , humid and too much walking, I will make them to stay. HOWEVER, I will talk to the camp director about your concern. I know my son's day camp let them stay inside if it gets too hot.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

If the reason is simply too hot , humid and too much walking, I will make them to stay. HOWEVER, I will talk to the camp director about your concern. I know my son's day camp let them stay inside if it gets too hot.

 

Unfortunately, there really is no "inside." There are semi-enclosed cabins, but there's no air conditioning or anything. They even conduct most of their activities in the rain if necessary. Monday was the hottest day so far (over 95 and miserably humid, we're having a very soupy summer here), and they went about their business as usual. The weather forecast for next week is highs in the 90s again *sigh*

[shinyhappypeople]

I'd have her go.  You already paid for it, she's not being abused, and next week's activities might appeal to her more.  

 

[mathnerd]

I would make my child go - I am a mean mom when it comes to these things. Because it is only for 2 weeks totally. And she can learn a lesson that what you want is not always what you get in life and that sometimes you need to make the best of the situation that you are in. I would also remind her that it was her choice to go there in the first place and offer her a small alternative activity that she loves (beach trip, outing to an art supply store or some such thing) if she shows good attitude and stops complaining during the camp duration!

But, definitely let her camp director know that she is bored as she thinks that so many pointless activities are going on. Some feedback would help them to streamline their activities and make it more interesting to everyone.

[Bree]

I think I would let her come home for the next week if it was the heat that was really getting to her, like starting to make her sick etc. It's been really hot here too and if I was out in it all day I would be miserable. If it was the activities that weren't that much fun and more of the reason then I would make her stick it out.

[momma2three]

After reading your title and first line, my answer was "No way!"

 

After reading the rest of your post, my answer is yes.

 

 

I don't really think that her complaints are totally valid.  I'm a big believer in swim lessons, and so her complaint that the whole time in the pool isn't just free swim doesn't really impress me.  And  how big is this camp that everything is literally a 15 minute walk away from everything else?  That's gotta be at least a half mile, even at a kid-pace.

 

[Jilly]

Because she had a good attitude in the beginning about going and because she will be completing the first week, I would not make her go back for the second week.

[Pen]

Has she a friend there or made one?

[shawthorne44]

I'd make her finish it out.  One reason is that if you let her quick now she will never ever be interested in camp again.  If you make her stick it out there is a chance she will like it. 

 

Although if they seem to be trekking too much because of disorganization, then I would speak to the adults about that. 

 

I remember at live-in G.S. camp, there was often a few kids that would hate the second and third days.  Then they really got into it.  It sounds like this is a day camp, so I would expect that time period would be extended out. 

[MollyAnn]

Since the second week is a different set of activities, I would have her stick it out. Maybe get them some Polar Breeze bandanas or another type of cooling neck wrap.

I might point out to her that hiking is part of being a Girl Scout and all that walking is her hiking.

I do think it's strange that the swimming is lessons, I would talk to the director about that.

[Rebel Yell]

Did she beg to go to this camp, or did you inform her that she would be going?  That makes a difference to me.  It sounds liek she could have enjoyed it, and Mom wants/needs for her to be away, right?  AND camp wasn't as it was advertised/expected?  I don't expect camp to be like a vacation- take the elevator to the hotel pool, walk off your patio to the private beach, etc. But I can understand long walks to everything- takes twice as long with a group, hills make it longer, lining up and waiting for everyone else takes up 75% of the time.

 

If it were me, I would call the camp and find out what my options are.  IF you can transfer her fees to a third week for other DD, I would do that.  SInce *I* need the alone time, I would also find friends/family to take DD for a day or two, or a few hours? Or set her up with DVDs, crafts, chores, projects that she has to do on her own during certain hours as a condition of being allowed to give up the second week.  FInd a young teen as a 'mother's helper" or buddy to help keep her occupied if you're able to pay someone.  Pay her way in and provide cookies to a friend who has a pool membership so DD can do the fun swimming she missed.

 

if I wasn't able to trandfer the week to DD, I would have her go, but also see if she can switch any activities- liek swimming...  make the best of it, and agree to discuss it after the end of Day 2- it really might just be a horrible fit for this child. Listen to her- and if she sticks it out for the second week, give her a huge fun reward- favorite meal & dessert- whatever you know she;d love.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[PachiSusan]

I was your daughter, only it was 3 weeks of horse camp. My parents wrote or called everyday but I had to stay and stick it out. By the end, I was glad they made me stay.

[tammyw]

I'm probably the worst person to ask, but I hate, hate, hate heat and humidity. Makes me absolutely miserable. I don't sign the kids up for PE classes once June hits, even though it's not humid here and rarely gets above 80. So I book summer camps based on whether they are indoors, lol!

 

I have to say that I have let my kids drop things that they really hated (and yes, I have lost money in this process). The biggest reason is what someone else touched on above. I want them to feel safe to try other things. Heck, I try things and quit sometimes if I hate it. I don't think that makes me a quitter. I think there is a greater chance of them not wanting to try new things for fear that they have to finish it out "no matter what".

 

But I understand everyone's point of view. You have to do what's best for your family.

[swellmomma]

Has anyone actually experienced their kids refusing to ever try anything again due to having to complete something they signed up for? Honest question, because I have seen that in this thread and in other threads in the past, but it is not my experience.  My kids generally have to finish their commitment whether it is a 1 week camp or a full year sport or whatever in between.  There has only been one time I let them quit something early and it was indoor soccer by the second practice because ds would not level the bleachers to even get on the field.  Beyond that if they sign up they are committed for the duration.  They have quit a sport, or camp, or club at the end of the duration due to not liking it but all 4 have always been eager to try something else.  So being told to stick it out and finish up does not mean they will never try anything again or that they won't feel safe to etc.  I don't know, I think it is important for kids to learn perseverence and while they may learn that in regards to assignments or here or there, to me it is a virtue that should be lived daily from a young age.  Honoring commitments as well.  I think learning to stick with something, look for the silver lining and make the best of a situation etc are vital skills as they grow up and for me personally by double digits of age I expect them to be learning them.  Life is not always fun or easy, things are not always what we thought they would be, but if one learns to make the most of it and smile through they are better served their entire lives.

Now if a child was being bullied or maltreated, or improperly supervised, etc of course they should be pulled out.  But when thinking simply of a daycamp that is what 7 hours a day for 5 days.  Is a different theme than the week they didn't like etc.  For me personally (and every family is different so this is just for me) I would see pulling out as catering to whining and being an eeyore and nobody likes an eeyore.  I think kids learn and have reinforced too often that it is okay to quit when things get tough/unpleasant etc.  And while they certainly do not need to always see the glass half full and be happy about everything all the time, especially as kids.  I do think they need to learn to be thankful to have a glass and something in it to begin with kwim.  I think they need to learn to make the most out of the opportunities afforded to them, and to stick with things even if they aren't meeting with their expectations.  I also feel this is a skill that takes years to develop and that by double digits they are a maturity level to really be held to living it.

I hope that made sense.  There is certainly times when quitting an activity early is best, no one should stick with something if they are being treated like a doormat, getting ill as a result of the activities or other such things.  But I am not hearing any of that here.  I am hearing that a 10 year old girl is whining and complaining that it is not good enough for what she wants.  And my answer to that is tough beans.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

You know, I don't disagree with you entirely, but in cases like this, I'm not sure if it fits my definition of a commitment. IMO, a commitment is something you make to reach a greater goal: learning an instrument, helping out a friend, volunteering, etc. I think of camp as something that's supposed to be a fun and enjoyable way to fill some time, not a commitment to someone else. No one at camp loses out if she doesn't go back next week--the money is spent either way, her sister doesn't care whether she goes or not, and the camp staff couldn't care less. If the purpose of the week (having fun) isn't being met, what's the point in continuing? I kind of think of it like eating food you don't really like when you weren't that hungry in the first place. Why keep eating when you don't even like what you're putting in your mouth, and you don't need the nourishment? 

 

By contrast, she makes a weekly video for a friend's collaborative YouTube channel. When she agreed to do it, she thought it would be a blast. Since then, she's realized that not every weekly topic her friend picked is that enjoyable or that easy to cover, but she's never missed a week, and when she did consider quitting and realized her friend was sad about it, she decided to give it another go. I feel like that's the kind of commitment I'm more worried about her keeping, not something that we thought would be fun but actually makes her frustrated and uncomfortable and stressed the night before and the morning of (lots of stuff to remember and deal with). 

 

Also, she never whined and her complaints were limited. This kid is my steady kid, which makes me more likely to pay attention to her misery. (If it was my younger kid, I'd be far more likely to say, "Suck it up!" LOL That kid complains about everything!) She never said a word to me this morning, but I could see her trying not to cry, and I knew I couldn't ask her about it or she would overflow. She knows how important the two quiet weeks are to me, and she doesn't want to ruin that. Everything I know about how she was feeling came from my post-camp interrogations (and one spontaneous, weepy outburst when I was tucking her in on Monday night). 

 

As for kids who don't try anything because they were forced to finish out other things, she has said about other classes/events/sessions that she wasn't willing to try something because she might not like it, but she does have a little anxiety thing going. I don't know how insisting that she finish out something she doesn't like would affect her in the long term, but I wouldn't be surprised if, combined with the anxiety, it made her more gun-shy about signing up for other classes. But that's something we struggle with in general, her being willing to step outside her comfort zone to try new things and persevering. Which is why I was so conflicted about this! Plus, I feel exactly like tammyw does about the heat/humidity, and thinking about how I would feel if I was in her shoes out in the heat made ME want to cry! 

 

Anyway, all of my worry was moot. I picked them up from camp today and they both had a great day. They both got extra pool time, DD10 really enjoyed her cookout and her trip to the camp store (of course), the sun was behind the clouds most of the day, they both did much better in their swim lessons (which they were going to be taking this summer either way, so that wasn't a factor really), etc. I asked if she had so much fun she wanted to reconsider the third week we'd talked about before camp started, and she said no, but she felt better about finishing out the second week now. She hasn't made any friends (unlike DD7, who now has three "new best friends!"), but she's getting along fine with the other girls, so no worries there. Thank goodness! I'll talk to her tonight and reaffirm that she's fully committed for next week, now that she's seen that it can be really fun, even if some days are hard.

 

I just knew that if I posted, things would resolve themselves. That always seems to happen when I get worked up enough about an issue to post about it! I call it "message board magic." I try never to crow on here about anything either, because that puts an immediate end to whatever it was I was excited about :lol: 

 

Thanks for the discussion, everyone. I was reading and thinking about your input all day, and will probably keep doing so over the next 10 days!

[swellmomma]

Hurray! that they both had a great day!  It sounds like you know your dd well, and with the further information you provided I can see why you weren't sure which way to go.  I can only speak to me and mine so it is hard when replying to these posts, and I try not to push buttons :)  I hope she has a great time the rest of the week and into the 2nd

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I was your daughter, only it was 3 weeks of horse camp. My parents wrote or called everyday but I had to stay and stick it out. By the end, I was glad they made me stay.

 

She originally wanted to go away to a three-week art camp in PA :lol: We decided to take it a step at a time! I bet it was a lot cooler there this week though. Truly, I think it was the weather that made a lot of difference here. She's done outdoor events and not complained at all in the past. Considering how I handle the heat, I'm not sure I really blame her. DD7 is like her dad--neither of them really notices the heat at all. 

 

If only GS camp could happen in October...

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Hurray! that they both had a great day!  It sounds like you know your dd well, and with the further information you provided I can see why you weren't sure which way to go.  I can only speak to me and mine so it is hard when replying to these posts, and I try not to push buttons :)  I hope she has a great time the rest of the week and into the 2nd

 

I get it, and I appreciate the input. Like I said, perseverance is definitely something that's on my radar with her. I've actually posted about it recently, though it was more with regard to schoolwork. But it really does matter, and I've been trying to think of ways to help her "practice" persevering when things get hard. I guess this is a good lesson, huh? :D

[tammyw]

I'm so glad it all worked out!!

[MeghanL]

I'm so glad everyone is now happy! 

[jennynd]

Glade things work out

[NASDAQ]

I'm glad it worked out. FWIW, my dd had a bad time at day camp two years ago, and I encouraged her to go back the next day. If she'd still not wanted to go back, I'd take her out. I figure that the money is a sunk cost.

[Tracy]

IMO, this is not about money or keeping a commitment.  Rather, it is about balancing what the child wants with what she needs.  If she is the type of child to cry at a lot of things and needs a little push to get through it, then perhaps she needs to stick with it.  But if she needs to know that her parents have her back, then I wouldn't make her go.  

 

I have particular empathy for this dc, because I was very much like that as a child (still am), and I have a ds that is like that.  We both get easily over-stimulated, and it can take a long time to recover from that.  If I signed ds up for a camp like that, I would have my doubts as to whether he could make through, and I would be prepared to let him quit.  I would at least consider allowing him to stay home one day per week to allow for some recovery before going back.  

[RootAnn]

Glad she's bounced back. Fingers crossed that next week's weather will be nice®!

 

We generally make our kids go through with activities they agreed to/wanted to do, however, we do take it on a case-by-case basis. For example, I signed dd#1 & dd#2 up for once-per-week four week art classes 1 1/2 hrs away because dd#2 really has a talent, they were teaching things she would benefit from, and she previously *loved* a once-per-week whole school year program at the same place. We couldn't do the school year program this year for a variety of reasons, so the weekend one four weeks in a row was my make-it-up-to-her. Dd#2 came back from the first session & explained calmly why she disliked it & that she did NOT want to go back. I could understand her reasons, but asked her to try again (with reasons). The second class went no better and I didn't send her back for the last two. I learned that teachers can make a very big deal with this child!

 

For the record, I don't know what I would have done in your shoes as it would have depended on which kid, their attitude, and their reasons. I know I don't do well in the heat, bugs, and humidity when we're camping out. DH is more likely to make them stick it out if it is a physical discomfort thing. If I'm miserable along with them, I'm all for leaving early.  :blushing:

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

DH is more likely to make them stick it out if it is a physical discomfort thing. If I'm miserable along with them, I'm all for leaving early.  :blushing:

 

Here too. DH and I just had a...lively...conversation about this issue today. The more I think about it, the more I realize that the heat/weather has more to do with my empathy for her than anything else. I've always tolerated heat very poorly, even as a kid. I'd come in from recess or gym and teachers would ask me if I was OK and needed to go down to the nurse. I literally turn purple. People still comment on it! DH, on the other hand, happily does yard work on 100-degree days in jeans, boots, and long-sleeved shirts. So he doesn't get the impact the heat has on those of us who don't tolerate it well. 

 

Of course, this morning I got a call from the camp nurse that DD7 had to have an attached deer tick removed from her hairline :( I'm hoping neither of them is traumatized by it. DD7 should be OK, but again, DD10 might be. She'd rather wait an hour to use the upstairs bathroom rather than use the downstairs toilet and risk running across a bug. Gah! I wish I could figure out how to toughen this kid up a bit *sigh*

[daijobu]

I only scanned the first few responses here, but I'm goint to take the minority position. I argue this is a good opportunity to discuss the concept of "sunk costs." You paid for the camp. The first week of camp was undesirable. The money spent on camp is gone whether you attend the second week or not. So why waste more time in an undesirable situation?

 

I am reminded of a time a few years ago when I signed up for a month of ice skating lessons. On the first or second day, I slipped and fell and mildly sprained my wrist. I had a tennis match later that day, and was relieved I could still play. Still, the experience scared me, and I decided to quit the class, no refund. I decided it just wasn't worth it. I know there is value in "sticking it out," but I gotta tell ya, I was so relieved there was no authority figure telling me to do so. (One of the benefits of being an adult.)

 

So I'm sympathetic to your dd, and recommend she drop the camp and relax.