If your gifted kid bombed a test used for gifted placement, what would you do?

[SKL]

My youngest flubbed the Terra Nova tests this year (1st grade). Whether it was because she had the flu or test anxiety or who knows why. Maybe she tried to work ahead instead of listening to the oral parts, like she does in class. Her percentiles do not reflect her ability, no question. I've been told that the 1st grade test scores are one of the screening criteria used for the gifted program (which starts in 3rd grade). So I dunno . . . do I want to start working on "plan B" to get my kid considered for the program? I never thought I'd be "that parent," but she's so bored in school despite being a year young for her grade, because the regular classrooms don't differentiate instruction. I'd hate to see her lose an opportunity over an inaccurate score. Has anyone here had this situation, and what did / would you do? Get an independent IQ test? Or is that obnoxious? :p

[Dmmetler]

Especially since she's young for her grade, I'd see if you can find someone who does the WJ-III or PIAT-some oral, adaptive achievement test. Those are normed by age, not grade level.

[SKL]

Where would you go to get a reliable individual test done?

[ErinE]

I'm not sure where you are but it varies. In some states there were individual testing offices that would administer various tests for diagnostic purposes. Private school websites in the area were a good place to find the testing centers, but the test cost per student was $300+. I also used google to find "educational services" in the area.

 

I tried to stay away from tutoring services like Kaplan or Sylvan as I'd heard they usually found learning disorders even when none were suspected. None of the tutoring businesses I contacted used the standard WJ-III. In-house tests were used which I don't think are recognized by other potential users (like private or public schools).

 

Some regional homeschool message boards were a good source. In another state, there were 4-5 names that administered the WJ-III in the area for $100-$150 per child. In my current state, I haven't been able to find any good test administrators for a reasonable price.

[Arcadia]

Her percentiles do not reflect her ability, no question. I've been told that the 1st grade test scores are one of the screening criteria used for the gifted program (which starts in 3rd grade). So I dunno . . . do I want to start working on "plan B" to get my kid considered for the program?

 

My older's former school accepts teacher's recommendation for their gifted program if the child is a bad test taker. Their gifted program also starts in 3rd grade. The kids have to take a separate screening test and they also look at the teachers recommendations. His former school does not take results of independent IQ tests though.

[wapiti]

Where would you go to get a reliable individual test done?

I would see an ed psych or neuropsych **who is experienced in testing gifted kids**. They are often listed in the admissions section of gifted schools' websites as approved testers. Also, see Hoagies - there is a list of testers someplace there.

 

My youngest flubbed the Terra Nova tests this year (1st grade). Whether it was because she had the flu or test anxiety or who knows why. Maybe she tried to work ahead instead of listening to the oral parts, like she does in class. Her percentiles do not reflect her ability, no question. I've been told that the 1st grade test scores are one of the screening criteria used for the gifted program (which starts in 3rd grade). So I dunno . . . do I want to start working on "plan B" to get my kid considered for the program? I never thought I'd be "that parent," but she's so bored in school despite being a year young for her grade, because the regular classrooms don't differentiate instruction. I'd hate to see her lose an opportunity over an inaccurate score. Has anyone here had this situation, and what did / would you do? Get an independent IQ test? Or is that obnoxious? :p

 

The Terra Nova is an achievement test rather than an ability test. So, the first question is, do the results match what you perceive to be her current level of achievement? (It's possible for a student's ability and achievement to be at different levels.)

 

I wouldn't worry much about a first grader's performance on a pencil-and-paper test, assuming that's how it is administered. While it may be used for gifted placement, one would hope it wouldn't be used against the student to keep them out of a gifted program if there is other evidence, such as the private IQ testing.

 

I understand your frustration. Our district uses the CogAT in 3rd grade for gifted screening. My ds scored in the single-digit percentiles in the section pertaining to an area of giftedness for him (private testing, as well as the MAP at school, both show 99th percentile).

[Katy]

Psychologists typically offer tests.

 

If she is more visually gifted than mathematically gifted, that might be the problem. IQ tests have multiple "right" answers, but the "correct" is the most abstract.

 

For example, if there is a pattern of boxes inside boxes with dots in them and you are asked which box comes next, there will be a clear visual pattern, but what is judged as the "correct" answer will be the numerical pattern of the number of dots inside that are counting up the prime numbers - pattern questions always have a mathematical answer.

 

Similarly, in the vocabulary patterns, the most abstract answer will be correct. The "right" option might be animals, but the "correct" option will be mammals.

 

This is why I don't believe in IQ tests - who determines that mathematical facts your child may not have been exposed to yet outweigh noting visual patterns on your own? IQ tests are not a standard of either how fast your child learns nor how good they are at drawing conclusions from what they learn. If you can study to pass the exam I don't think it's accurate.

 

The real question is what you're going to do with her next. I don't have the answer for you, this sort of situation is one of the reasons we home school. I'll say a prayer you find the right answer for your family.

[butterflymommy]

My DD bombed the gifted test. She didn't even come close to the cut off. I blogged about it jokingly here. My mom is an expert in early childhood education and according to her test prep makes a huge difference up until about age 8. After that point prep work doesn't impact the results as much. In my area many parents (not me) spend thousands of $$ of prep.

 

I don't want to be "that parent" either but DD 4 can read simple books and has a near photographic memory. All of my kids, even the slackers, end up scoring in the 90th %tile+ on ITBS type standardized tests by first grade. So like you I'm scratching my head over what these results mean.

 

It could be that only the top of the top are taking these tests, so to be in the lower percentiles really doesn't mean a lower percentile, if that makes sense. If 10,000 self selected students perceived by their parents to be precocious take the test, out of a student body of 100,000, you are "fighting" against the most difficult contenders so to speak.

[SKL]

To clarify, the Terra Nova test is given to all the kids in the school. It's not a gifted test per se, but they look at it when they decide who's going to be considered for the gifted program. I don't know how it differs from ITBS, but both of my kids did much better on ITBS last year than on Terra Nova this year. My youngest got the 99th %ile in each of reading, math, and language on last year's ITBS. This year she got no percentiles in the 90s. Last year her results provided grade level equivalents, which went up into the 3rd grade (she was 5yo). This year I don't have that but the %iles are so meh, it would seem she lost reading ability over the year, which makes no sense.

[Dmmetler]

If she had 99% scores last year, I think you could still use last year's scores to apply to JHU CTY and have her take the SCAT. Since that's an above level test, you'll get a score report compared to kids at her age/grade level and kids who did talent search above grade level-that's the idea of talent search. That might be useful to show the school, and after all, if JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY recognizes her as gifted, shouldn't the school?

 

I will say I'm kind of impressed by the fact that your DDs' private school has a GT program at all. The ones here generally give you a song and dance about how advanced ALL their kids are (my DD's school did try to follow her gIEP, but mostly, they gave her early entry and left it up to the teacher).

[Crimson Wife]

Some schools are very sensitive to the perception that GATE is elitist and have a policy against consideration of private IQ testing. Our current district does not have a GATE program, but the one where we lived from 2006-2009 did and it would not accept results of privately administered IQ tests. The fear was that well-heeled parents would shop around for a lenient tester in order to buy their way into GATE.

[jennynd]

Our school district does Cogat for the gifted. I don't think they take ANYTHING ELSE. and I don't even think Cogat count as IQ test. DS did well so we did not consider independent test. I know a neighbor school district you can appeal for the gifted program. I assume that will be independent test

[jennynd]

 

I understand your frustration. Our district uses the CogAT in 3rd grade for gifted screening. My ds scored in the single-digit percentiles in the section pertaining to an area of giftedness for him (private testing, as well as the MAP at school, both show 99th percentile).

 

 

 

Do you think he circle the wrong bubble??

[wapiti]

Do you think he circle the wrong bubble??

 

 

That was my first thought, though I didn't get to see the test itself, and the same thing happened on both math sections (I forgot what they're called - maybe nonverbal and quantitative?). Ironically, his verbal score was closer to his actual ability, though still nowhere near accurate when compared to private, one-on-one testing as well as his performance at school. I assume it's for the same reason as his poor performance on the Coding subtest of the WISC - some sort of processing issue involving slow motor speed and the panic of being timed - though he said he finished with plenty of time. He does fine on our state testing, though I think he does best on the MAP, which is on the computer.

[madteaparty]

my son bombed the G&T test in NYC most spectacularly. I had some personal stress about it but then I thought further and was kind of proud of him for unequivocally bombing it. it wasn't even close :)

There was nothing I could do. He is in general ed class now and very well.

[readinmom]

Oldest ds stopped the evaluator during his GATE placement test. He said the questions were "redundant". Needless to say, he did not get into the program. :laugh:

He was the kid that was reading anything he could get his hands on by age 3. I should have understood back then how bored he was...

[stripe]

I apparently bombed one section of a test when I was in 8th grade. It's really quite funny because I even remember finding the questions utterly bizarre and confusing. There was one that showed two guys getting into a fight. I had no clue whether one punched the other first, or who kicked who. Who makes these tests, anyway? I remember a question asking the capital of Greece and the meaning of the word "espionage." I was wearing a shirt with something about Athens on it, too. Ha ha. Anyway my mom just got me into the best program at a public school she could, for what I qualified for. But it was disturbing because she had to pay for the test herself. Is this really the best way to identify gifted kids??

[mellie]

I would speak with his teacher, and find out if she is as surprised with the results. If so, I would get her on board with you to speak with the principal or to share her belief that your child should be retested or allowed in the program based on teacher recommendation. The teachers already know the kids who should be in the program. Ask if the school psychologist can test him, if need be.

[kiwik]

To clarify, the Terra Nova test is given to all the kids in the school. It's not a gifted test per se, but they look at it when they decide who's going to be considered for the gifted program. I don't know how it differs from ITBS, but both of my kids did much better on ITBS last year than on Terra Nova this year. My youngest got the 99th %ile in each of reading, math, and language on last year's ITBS. This year she got no percentiles in the 90s. Last year her results provided grade level equivalents, which went up into the 3rd grade (she was 5yo). This year I don't have that but the %iles are so meh, it would seem she lost reading ability over the year, which makes no sense.

Her percentiles could have dropped because everyone else has improved faster not because she has gone backwards. I imagine if you query it they will tell you all kids even out by the first grade. I don't believe this but the difference between not knowing the alphabet and reading at 1st grade level is more obvious than the difference between reading at first grade level and reading at second grade level. Given all the problems that you have had with the teacher I would wait until next year.

[ScarletJones]

What if she didn't fare well coz she had flu and that may be coz  shes a year young for her grade... Give her some time... 

[Dmmetler]

The other thing to keep in mind is that you don't know how the other kids in your class did besides your two. It's entirely possible that, compared to the SAT-10, the entire grade went backwards. The SAT-10 at Kindergarten is a really, really basic test. The 1st grade SAT-10 does a lot that the K one didn't and fatigue could really have made a difference there, and I'm guessing the 1st grade Terra Nova is similar. It's the difference between test sessions of 30 minutes a day for a couple of days, and a testing time of a couple of hours a day for several days in a row. And the 1st grade test is, in large part, a listening test. Many of the questions are read out loud to the children, and I remember my DD complaining about it because she just wanted to go on, and couldn't because they hadn't given her the questions. It's entirely possible that your DD's score reflects more her ability to listen to below her level nonsense that she doesn't see as important as opposed to reading or math-and if so, you'll likely see a big jump at 2nd grade, when it's expected that the kids can read the questions for themselves in most cases.

 

 

 

[SKL]

I do know that the average scores in my kids' grade were about a year ahead of the norm.  They publish that on their website.

 

I do agree that the fact that it's a listening test probably made a big difference.  My gifted kid likes to work ahead rather than wait for instruction.  I did not coach her on this as I did not realize it was going to matter (and I don't really believe in coaching/prepping, but that's a topic for a different day).  Usually working ahead does not pose a problem but lets her get back to enjoying her library book faster.  :)  So I could totally see that happening.

 

This is an old thread now; we're in the middle of summer vacation.  I think 2nd grade will be a lot different from 1st.  Both in terms of knowing how to take the test, and having a rapport with the teacher that will hopefully mean a referral regardless of the 1st grade test scores.  Time will tell.