Do homeschooled teens become drug/alcohol addicted?

[Mom-ninja.]

To get you started, I'd recommend reading the following (books are linked to Amazon):

 

http://teenbrain.dru...nce/growth.html (brief overview, some of the claims are not yet proven)

The Emotional Life of Your Brain by Richard Davidson and Sharon Begley -- the best book I've read on brain scan studies

Mindsight by Dan Siegel

Spark by John Ratey -- how exercise affects the brain

 

 

Thanks for the links.

[Laurie4b]

Type 1 diabetes does not have lifestyle factors, but is thought to have environmental factors such as exposure to a certain virus or viruses which trigger the onset. Most everything is a combination of genetics and environment, though not always a combination of genetics and personal choice.

[Mom-ninja.]

Type 1 diabetes does not have lifestyle factors, but is thought to have environmental factors such as exposure to a certain virus or viruses which trigger the onset. Most everything is a combination of genetics and environment, though not always a combination of genetics and personal choice.

 

Same with celiac. It has genetic and environmental triggers/factors but not lifestyle choice. I had a woman tell me if I had exercised more I wouldn't have gotten celiac. Um, okay. She seems to be confused about her diseases. Some people think that all diseases have lifestyle factors. It irks me.

 

Anyway, back to the OP.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Same with celiac. It has genetic and environmental triggers/factors but not lifestyle choice. I had a woman tell me if I had exercised more I wouldn't have gotten celiac. Um, okay. She seems to be confused about her diseases. Some people think that all diseases have lifestyle factors. It irks me.

 

Anyway, back to the OP.

 

 

Oh my. Perhaps she thought you had cellulite?

 

I think lifestyle choice comes in with these diseases only in the sense that once diagnosed you can choose to manage it or not. I know a young man who chooses to not manage his celiac disease which results in much avoidable pain and misery for himself. Ironically (or perhaps not) he is also addicted to drugs and alcohol and probably has some mental illness as well. So his refusal to take care of his disease is most likely linked to all of that.

[Dicentra]

I thought this book was well done:

http://www.amazon.co...s=hungry ghosts

In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction by Gabor Mate and Peter A. Levine

From the Amazon description:

Based on Gabor Maté’s two decades of experience as a medical doctor and his groundbreaking work with the severely addicted on Vancouver’s skid row, In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts radically reenvisions this much misunderstood field by taking a holistic approach. Dr. Maté presents addiction not as a discrete phenomenon confined to an unfortunate or weak-willed few, but as a continuum that runs throughout (and perhaps underpins) our society; not a medical "condition" distinct from the lives it affects, rather the result of a complex interplay among personal history, emotional, and neurological development, brain chemistry, and the drugs (and behaviors) of addiction. Simplifying a wide array of brain and addiction research findings from around the globe, the book avoids glib self-help remedies, instead promoting a thorough and compassionate self-understanding as the first key to healing and wellness. In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts argues persuasively against contemporary health, social, and criminal justice policies toward addiction and those impacted by it. The mix of personal stories—including the author’s candid discussion of his own "high-status" addictive tendencies—and science with positive solutions makes the book equally useful for lay readers and professionals.

 

My husband is a pharmacist who works with patients in a Methadone program and he picked up this book to help him get a better sense of what those folks were going through. I read it when he was finished and thought it was very informative and well written.

[laughing lioness]

I say this lightly... like as in a whisper of a thought.

Many people homeschool because they like the philosophy and it it just feels right, but many people homeschool after the PS doesn't work for various reasons (low self esteem due to bullying, LD, autism, depression, OCD etc.) Sometimes it is these underlying problems that cause an individual to seek out "mood-enhancing" drugs or alcohol. Not necessarily the product of a homeschool environment, but just a chemical problem in the individual.

There are certainly plenty of children that remain in PS with to these type of problems and they too may develop addiction issues but it does affect the balance or percentage of h/s children with underlying issues.

 

I don't mean for this to be offensive, just an observation of sorts.

 

...Along with this, some people are self medicating. A relative drinks 2 liters of Mountain Dew a day- she won't get the ADHD drugs she so desperatey needs but the Mt. Dew calms her down enough to function. . Another homeschooling family I know used a certain "curriculum" that advocates punishing children. Thier oldest ended up dealing out of their house. Turns out he is severly ADHD (like his mom) and just couldn't manage his own behavior, but the family wouldn't seek treament, thanks to the teaching of the "curriculum/lifstyle."The drugs were a desperate attempt to self medicate behavior he physiologically couldn't manage.

I think lots of folks with mood disorders are attemtping to manage their moods with drugs. Anxiety and OCD come to mind. If you're anxious and a bit socio-phobic,a couple beers will generally chill you out.

 

 

And yes, I do believe that behavior can and is BEST managed by Cog-behavioral techniques, mindfulness, spiritualtiy and a host of other less damaging behaviors than addiction, but just wanted to offer that perspective.

 

Does homeschooling "save" kids from anything? No. Parents still need to be present and attentive (I've seen my fair share of homeschooling moms that are just as checked out as p.s. moms) and they still live in the world. Do I think it can innoculate them a fair bit to some things? Yes.

[LucyStoner]

Gabor Mate's work on addiction and his book are both amazing. The book is great. Anyone who thinks addiction is a moral failing or a choice, needs to read In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, like yesterday.

[laughing lioness]

Gabor Mate's work on addiction and his book are both amazing. The book is great. Anyone who thinks addiction is a moral failing or a choice, needs to read In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, like yesterday.

 

Adding this to be tbr list. Thanks!

[Crimson Wife]

Gabor Mate's work on addiction and his book are both amazing. The book is great. Anyone who thinks addiction is a moral failing or a choice, needs to read In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, like yesterday.

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

[LucyStoner]

The dirt poor enable by not supervising. The kid starts dealing and that funds his addictive activities (alcohol, drugs, ciggies or porn). I've got a neighbor that turned a blind eye to her teens activities -- they set up a tent in the yard and dealt from there. That was shut down pretty fast when the neighbors noticed the signalling up/down the street to gate the customers in. Now they deal from inside the house.

 

 

Plenty of dirt poor people do supervise their kids and seek help for an addicted child. There are also many poor teens who struggle with addiction but never start dealing. My older brother is a good example of this. Plenty of middle class and wealthy parents abdicate all sense of responsibility for supervising their children. The problem of unsupervised parties in wealthy suburbs where everyone brings pilfered prescriptions and liquor comes to mind. In my area, this has been a big deal at even middle school ages. I believe that some very well off parents even had charges brought against them for not supervising their kids/allowing such parties to go on.

[SwallowTail]

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

 

 

 

Yes, indeed they can. Many children become addicted to drugs early on due to being forced to take them or having them forced on them by abusive adults. Also, children who take narcotic pain meds at a young age for medical injuries or conditions are at greater risk for becoming addicted to those andother durgs, both physically and psychologically. Also, children and young teens don't have the wisdom and ability to always make good decisions, so I do not denounce their use of alcohol or drugs and subsequent consequences necessarily as a character flaw.

 

 

 

I don't necessarily agree with there not being such a thing as an addictive personality. Evidence shows that thrill seekers, depressed people, people w/ ADD, people with ASD and/or SPD, people with blood sugar, and people with seratonin relgualating issues are all at risk for self-medication through drugs/alcohol/or "process" addictions.

 

I also hugely believe that punitive parenting, emotional neglect or abuse, and all others sorts of childhood trauma can contribute to the tendency to seek to use chemicals or experiences to escape or change the brain.

 

I think homeschooling can at times help, but depending upon the relationship between the parents and child and how the child is made to feel, it can actually be a causal factor (thinking of puntiive and deeply religious legalistic environments, specifically).

[bobbeym]

I think homeschooling gives a little more protection because the parent is around more often and paying attention to what's going on. Both my younger brothers were involved in drugs starting at age 11-12. They went to public school, had parents that were never home and didn't know who their friends were or what they were doing.

 

DH has been a SAHD for 15 years now, and we only have one car, so between the two of us, there isn't anything the kids can get away with doing that we're not going to find out about. We've been honest with them about alcohol and drugs; they know our past history with both. We encourage them to just stay away from all of it completely because there is addiction in both sides of the family and it's not worth the risk.

[goldberry]

Sorry, double post.

[goldberry]

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

 

But most people don't consider alcohol consumption in moderation to be wrong. I have a margarita probably about 3-4 times a YEAR when I get to go out to dinner with my husband. When I first was old enough to drink, I would have wine with dinner on occasion.

 

Was it a character flaw to do that, because I chose to consume alcohol in what I considered to be moderate amounts? But what if I DID have a genetic issue towards addiction and that was all it took to trigger it?

[garddwr]

But most people don't consider alcohol consumption in moderation to be wrong. I have a margarita probably about 3-4 times a YEAR when I get to go out to dinner with my husband. When I first was old enough to drink, I would have wine with dinner on occasion.

 

Was it a character flaw to do that, because I chose to consume alcohol in what I considered to be moderate amounts? But what if I DID have a genetic issue towards addiction and that was all it took to trigger it?

 

 

This is the challenge we face--a lot of people can just have drink once in awhile without risking addiction--it is socially acceptable and even expected.

I've always been personally grateful that I grew up in the LDS church because I strongly suspect I am the kind who would become addicted--but because of the religious values I was taught and embraced I've never taken a drink (or a smoke or anything else). I have felt ever since I was a teenager that those religious guidelines were a protection to me. Interestingly, the Word of Wisdom (the revelation that outlines the LDS health code) states that it is "adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints," --my personal interpretation of that has been that, while there may not be inherent wrong in consuming those substances that are forbidden, our individual capacity to use them without developing addictions or other problems varies so the guidance given is such that even the weakest--those most prone to develop problems--will be protected.

[laughing lioness]

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

 

This is a long debated topic in the mental health and medical field. Is addiction a disease or not?Science News has had some fascinating articles the past several years about addiction/obesity/homosexualtiy (I only throw these together because of the debate about nature/nurture and the current reserach about certain "obesity" genes or whatever).

 

Physiology is more complex and intricate than we give it credit for. Maybe the person predisposed to alchoholism never does take a drink and so never suffers years of pain as an alcoholic. But they discover candy bars, become a sugar addict and end up risking thier lives in a snow storm to go get a bag of candy bars (I've heard some of these stories).

 

I was just sort of in an on-line debate about whether a person can change their personality- PTSD was discussed and, of course, I brought up EMDR. The very discussion about PTSD suggests that a personality can be changed and EMDR addresses neural pathways and has been shown to bring healing to really hard core abuse/trauma cases (further proof that a personality can be changed).

 

A very close relative just kicked a 25 year case of hard core alchoholism. Is her personality changed? Yes. How did she "overcome" her "disease" that was literally breaking down her primary body functions -through Cognitive Behavorial approach (think 12-step groups). Does cog-behav. psych change the physiology of a person. Simplistically I would say,"NO" but if you look at the neurology of habits and cog-behav. change than perhpas not- once again you are creating new neural pathways.

 

Experience creates neural pathways. Homeschooling vs. Public school creates different neural pathways. Lots of media vs. lots of memory work creates different neural pathways. Is pre-disposition there? Yes. My kids are predisposed to a host of carp- familial lipomatosis, alchoholism, MS, stupidity, ADHD, LD's, etc. By homeschooling I have more control over how some of that predispositon is managed.

[NotSoObvious]

I know you said in your circle, but want to point out that unless you are inclined to watch a teen 24/7, even in the most safest of neighborhoods...if they want to pursue the negative things they will find a way.

 

Agreed. I just meant kids who grew up in neighborhoods where drugs/gangs weren't a problem to begin with. *Money* played a huge part in my friends accessing drugs, especially in middle school.

 

 

The other end of the spectrum is where I taught in South Central Los Angeles, where drugs were part of the culture and ready visible and available.

[PollyOR]

I don't have kids that old yet. Generally speaking, where do 15-year-olds go to do the drugs? I'm assuming if they're at school or an activity, they are at least somewhat supervised. So, where does the drug-taking happen?

 

My boyfriend at church/school. I never asked, he would just slip a gift into my pocket.

[NotSoObvious]

I know you said in your circle, but want to point out that unless you are inclined to watch a teen 24/7, even in the most safest of neighborhoods...if they want to pursue the negative things they will find a way.

 

Ahhh, and by lack of supervision, I mean extremely wealthy families who weren't exactly keeping tabs on their kids (not insinuating all wealthy families are like this, so please don't go there), who had access to excessive (think celebrity families) amounts of money, freedom, internet, etc. I was in the first generation to grow up with home internet and pagers/cell phones, and our parents didn't have a clue. So these were the kids I went to school with that were some of the first from our sheltered little elementary school to get involved with drugs at the middle school level. Also, the vast majority of my friends who went to boarding school were drinking excessively and/or smoking by high school.

It was an interesting culture.

[PollyOR]

From what has been shared with me addiction to alcohol runs in my mom's family. I'm thankful that my body apparently can't handle drugs/alcohol (nausea and vomiting). Unfortunately this means I couldn't take pain meds after my recent surgery.

[NotSoObvious]

Where wealth makes a difference is parents often have the money to bail their kids out or pay for a good rehab if need be. Poor kids don't get bailed out and often don't get the help they need.

 

Absolutely!

[I.Dup.]

Plenty of dirt poor people do supervise their kids and seek help for an addicted child.

 

But many dirt-poor people simply do not have the option of staying at home with their kids, and often they live in low-income areas so the schools and after-school activities their children attend may put them more at risk. Many working-class people we know have their kids in day care from infancy for 10+ hours a day, and that doesn't change when they reach elementary age. The children need to go somewhere so the parents can work, and who knows what they are being exposed to.

 

There is a lot of addiction in my extended family. All of my uncles but one have died of drug overdose. I was never exposed to drugs and likely wouldn't have tried them if I was, it was just luck of the draw (and because I was such a nervous, jumpy kid about everything and anything new). I also was never drawn to alcohol because of the tendency to get so sick, and I hated being sick.

 

I think this is such a complicated issue, and it seems some people don't have a chance because of the cocktail of life circumstances they were handed.

[goldberry]

 

 

This is the challenge we face--a lot of people can just have drink once in awhile without risking addiction--it is socially acceptable and even expected.

I've always been personally grateful that I grew up in the LDS church because I strongly suspect I am the kind who would become addicted--but because of the religious values I was taught and embraced I've never taken a drink (or a smoke or anything else). I have felt ever since I was a teenager that those religious guidelines were a protection to me. Interestingly, the Word of Wisdom (the revelation that outlines the LDS health code) states that it is "adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints," --my personal interpretation of that has been that, while there may not be inherent wrong in consuming those substances that are forbidden, our individual capacity to use them without developing addictions or other problems varies so the guidance given is such that even the weakest--those most prone to develop problems--will be protected.

 

I have contemplated that. Having seen SO MUCH damage caused by alcohol for those who DO have a problem, there is a very valid argument to be made that it is better just not to take a chance. I don't know that I would have made that choice in my 20s though.

 

I have to say although it's a nice idea to make guidelines for the 'weakest', it seems like that would never end and that there is always someone weaker (or just stupider!) than you would think.

[Joanne]

 

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

 

It is not a character flaw to try drugs, alcohol, or have sex.

[laughing lioness]

It is not a character flaw to try drugs, alcohol, or have sex.

 

That really depends on your world view and faith. Stating this as fact, without defining content, is insulting to those who don't share your values.

[KathyBC]

I have addiction in my family, so I worry about this too. From what I have seen, in addition to the genetics, alot of it has to do with association. If parents are guarding the association (mind you, not just sheltering, but also providing the right kinds of association) I think that's a huge factor.

 

They say the genetics is also usually "triggered" by certain other factors (family environment, peer group, etc). I may not be able to do anything about the genetics, but I can do the best I can to keep anything from being triggered.

...Along with this, some people are self medicating. A relative drinks 2 liters of Mountain Dew a day- she won't get the ADHD drugs she so desperatey needs but the Mt. Dew calms her down enough to function. . Another homeschooling family I know used a certain "curriculum" that advocates punishing children. Thier oldest ended up dealing out of their house. Turns out he is severly ADHD (like his mom) and just couldn't manage his own behavior, but the family wouldn't seek treament, thanks to the teaching of the "curriculum/lifstyle."The drugs were a desperate attempt to self medicate behavior he physiologically couldn't manage.

I think lots of folks with mood disorders are attemtping to manage their moods with drugs. Anxiety and OCD come to mind. If you're anxious and a bit socio-phobic,a couple beers will generally chill you out.

 

 

And yes, I do believe that behavior can and is BEST managed by Cog-behavioral techniques, mindfulness, spiritualtiy and a host of other less damaging behaviors than addiction, but just wanted to offer that perspective.

 

Does homeschooling "save" kids from anything? No. Parents still need to be present and attentive (I've seen my fair share of homeschooling moms that are just as checked out as p.s. moms) and they still live in the world. Do I think it can innoculate them a fair bit to some things? Yes.

 

I'm turning these things over. So, if one has a socially anxious child, it might be difficult to provide the right kind of associations, kwim? It's a tough topic.

[I.Dup.]

 

 

This is the challenge we face--a lot of people can just have drink once in awhile without risking addiction--it is socially acceptable and even expected.

I've always been personally grateful that I grew up in the LDS church because I strongly suspect I am the kind who would become addicted--but because of the religious values I was taught and embraced I've never taken a drink (or a smoke or anything else). I have felt ever since I was a teenager that those religious guidelines were a protection to me. Interestingly, the Word of Wisdom (the revelation that outlines the LDS health code) states that it is "adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints," --my personal interpretation of that has been that, while there may not be inherent wrong in consuming those substances that are forbidden, our individual capacity to use them without developing addictions or other problems varies so the guidance given is such that even the weakest--those most prone to develop problems--will be protected.

 

I think this is wise. It does make me nervous how celebrated drinking is within the Catholic Church. My dh has become a regular drinker since we joined the Church, because that is what a lot of social gatherings were centered on as we were in the process of joining. I'm glad he's not prone to alcoholism, but I can see how it could easily lead to that, and know many Catholics that struggle with it and yet it seems to be laughed off.

[DianeW88]

 

I have contemplated that. Having seen SO MUCH damage caused by alcohol for those who DO have a problem, there is a very valid argument to be made that it is better just not to take a chance. I don't know that I would have made that choice in my 20s though.

 

I have to say although it's a nice idea to make guidelines for the 'weakest', it seems like that would never end and that there is always someone weaker (or just stupider!) than you would think.

Yes, and certainly there are teens in the LDS culture who do succumb to alcohol and drugs. However, it is less than within other cultures (among active, practicing LDS teens). One of the things I have seen where I live (in Utah) is that PLENTY of other alternatives are provided to the youth for fun and recreation. We work our butts off collectively and individually to support our youth in their journey to adulthood. Active LDS teens attend a religion class M-F who strengthen them in their faith and to provide support from adult leaders. It also helps them to find other friends who DO share their values and to encourage friendship among them. We have an activity night every week where our kids get together and do fun activities with each other. This week we're playing "glow in the dark" volleyball. Next week we have a service project to help get the yards of the elderly people in our neighborhood cleaned up for spring. The week after that we're teaching our girls (all between 12-18) how to knit and crochet and we'll be making blocks for an organization that joins the blocks together to donate the finished blankets to the needy. We have fun together and show the kids that THEY can have fun together without artificial stimulants that have the potential to cause so much damage to their health and future lives.

[DianeW88]

Adding another post because I can't freaking paragraph here with Windows 8. :banghead: I want to say that the support our youth receive isn't just from their families. It's from their neighbors, friends, teachers, church leaders, classmates, community leaders (most of whom are LDS), as well as their parents. Our neighbors are our ward members. They are my children's church leaders as well and have a personal interest in them and their success. I'm the Young Women's president in my ward. I love my girls!! I text them, I visit them, I talk with them about their lives on a regular basis. I know what is going on in their world. I know their parents, their siblings, their seminary teachers and even some of their school teachers. They share things with me. They text me, they cry with me, they open up to me, they trust me. I would fight as strongly against addictive behavior in their lives as their parents would. I think this is the kind of support that builds strong teens who feel confident in their ability to reject this sort of illegal teen behavior. It isn't uncool not to drink or do drugs around here. You have SO many kids surrounding you that live and support that lifestyle, that you never feel alone. Of course, if there are kids who are determined to drink and do drugs...they can find that. But I do feel that's it's easier for kids who might otherwise waiver to make a positive choice against underage drinking and drug abuse here. And I am soooo grateful. Both my older kids have never even tried cigarettes, alcohol or drugs.

[garddwr]

Yes, and certainly there are teens in the LDS culture who do succumb to alcohol and drugs. However, it is less than within other cultures (among active, practicing LDS teens). One of the things I have seen where I live (in Utah) is that PLENTY of other alternatives are provided to the youth for fun and recreation. We work our butts off collectively and individually to support our youth in their journey to adulthood. Active LDS teens attend a religion class M-F who strengthen them in their faith and to provide support from adult leaders. It also helps them to find other friends who DO share their values and to encourage friendship among them. We have an activity night every week where our kids get together and do fun activities with each other. This week we're playing "glow in the dark" volleyball. Next week we have a service project to help get the yards of the elderly people in our neighborhood cleaned up for spring. The week after that we're teaching our girls (all between 12-18) how to knit and crochet and we'll be making blocks for an organization that joins the blocks together to donate the finished blankets to the needy. We have fun together and show the kids that THEY can have fun together without artificial stimulants that have the potential to cause so much damage to their health and future lives.

 

 

My own experience growing up in areas with very few LDS people was quite different, the only significant support I had was from my family. Everyone in my high school smoked and drank (we were in a country where teenagers could legally buy alcohol). The only ones who didn't participate were those with religious reasons. I had a Catholic friend from Poland who did not smoke or drink--she belonged to some kind of Catholic youth organization that encouraged the kids to make a commitment not to. I don't think it would have been possible to stand up to the peer pressure in that situation if I had not developed a personal testimony and conviction by the time I was in high school. That said, I did find that my peers were generally respectful of my religiously based choices and did not pressure me to give them up. Those kids who did not have a similar motivation/explanation for avoiding harmful substances had a much harder time. I watched very sadly as one friend started drinking and later smoking (at first just taking a cigarette to "hold" so she could feel part of the group) when she had initially been determined to avoid those behaviors. I think that teenagers faced with peer pressure need stronger motivation than "it isn't good for you" to say no.

 

For LDS kids, I actually wonder if growing up in Utah can make sticking to church standards harder--because the kid offering you the beer or the cigarette just might be LDS too and won't back down when you bring up religion as a reason not to partake.

[KathyBC]

Adding another post because I can't freaking paragraph here with Windows 8. :banghead:

Try using Google Chrome instead of Internet Explorer. :thumbup1:

[LucyStoner]

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

 

 

PLEASE educate yourself before posting on a topic like this which has had a devastating impact on so many lives, young and old; rich and poor. How is judging people who have difficulties you don't grasp NOT more of a character flaw than being sick or self medicating/trying to drown serious pain? I won't delve into why you are wrong- there is ample medical evidence and hard science that disproves your misconception.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

That really depends on your world view and faith. Stating this as fact, without defining content, is insulting to those who don't share your values.

 

 

Is it more insulting than posting unscientific and judgmental comments about an issue that has cost people their children, parents, siblings and dear friends? Do you not see the hurt these sorts of words can have on those whose loved ones have suffered and possibly died from addiction?

 

So many people self medicate with substances and become ill with this devastating disease. Unless you know why they are self medicating or dulling the pain in the first place, you have no basis for evaluating that decision.

[justamouse]

This is a long debated topic in the mental health and medical field. Is addiction a disease or not?Science News has had some fascinating articles the past several years about addiction/obesity/homosexualtiy (I only throw these together because of the debate about nature/nurture and the current reserach about certain "obesity" genes or whatever).

 

Physiology is more complex and intricate than we give it credit for. Maybe the person predisposed to alchoholism never does take a drink and so never suffers years of pain as an alcoholic. But they discover candy bars, become a sugar addict and end up risking thier lives in a snow storm to go get a bag of candy bars (I've heard some of these stories).

 

I was just sort of in an on-line debate about whether a person can change their personality- PTSD was discussed and, of course, I brought up EMDR. The very discussion about PTSD suggests that a personality can be changed and EMDR addresses neural pathways and has been shown to bring healing to really hard core abuse/trauma cases (further proof that a personality can be changed).

 

A very close relative just kicked a 25 year case of hard core alchoholism. Is her personality changed? Yes. How did she "overcome" her "disease" that was literally breaking down her primary body functions -through Cognitive Behavorial approach (think 12-step groups). Does cog-behav. psych change the physiology of a person. Simplistically I would say,"NO" but if you look at the neurology of habits and cog-behav. change than perhpas not- once again you are creating new neural pathways.

 

Experience creates neural pathways. Homeschooling vs. Public school creates different neural pathways. Lots of media vs. lots of memory work creates different neural pathways. Is pre-disposition there? Yes. My kids are predisposed to a host of carp- familial lipomatosis, alchoholism, MS, stupidity, ADHD, LD's, etc. By homeschooling I have more control over how some of that predispositon is managed.

 

 

I so love this post I can't only like it once. I have to quote it and love it.

 

We've dealt with addiction in our family and yes, yes, yes.

 

With what Diane is posting on, I'm reading Hold Onto Your Kids -Why Parents need to matter more than Peers, by Gordon Neufeld, PhD and Gabor Mate MD and it is freaking amazing. Sit on the couch and read it all day amazing.

 

Also, just throwing this in there Charlotte Mason was talking about neural pathways (though she didn't know what exactly they were) way back when she was writing her series. She has some very good advice for parents on these matters.

[DianeW88]

 

Try using Google Chrome instead of Internet Explorer. :thumbup1:

 

Thank you, I will! And if that doesn't work, I just may drop kick my whole computer all the way to Bill Gates's front door.

[garddwr]

I so love this post I can't only like it once. I have to quote it and love it.

 

We've dealt with addiction in our family and yes, yes, yes.

 

With what Diane is posting on, I'm reading Hold Onto Your Kids -Why Parents need to matter more than Peers, by Gordon Neufeld, PhD and Gabor Mate MD and it is freaking amazing. Sit on the couch and read it all day amazing.

 

Also, just throwing this in there Charlotte Mason was talking about neural pathways (though she didn't know what exactly they were) way back when she was writing her series. She has some very good advice for parents on these matters.

 

Hold on to your Kids is a great book. I need to re-read it.

[mommymilkies]

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

This is incredibly insulting. Character flaw? Wow. People try things. They make mistakes. From the beginning of flipping history, people have tried substances to make them feel better. I guess we're all flawed. Some people drink to ease their pain, and some just inflict pain on others with their nasty and rude words to make themselves feel better.

 

Some substances are so addicitve that even one mistake can cost you your life. My mother was a meth addict. She's been clean for 6 years now. She was an upstanding person who went through a horrible, nasty, bitter divorce and the person who comforted her reassured her that the meth just had a bad rap. It would give her energy to keep up with her multiple jobs and single family household and everything else. No worse than a Red Bull, right? Wrong. Luckily family supported her and she quit cold turkey and moved away from the influence and never looked back. She was LUCKY. Addictive behavior is really prevalent in my family though I have never myself succumbed to it. But I guess that just means my family are all a bunch of losers because none were as perfect or self-righteous as some here claim.

 

Diane, thank you for your input. I have to highly applaud the LDS community for their support of their members and families. It's really wonderful. Of course in any community, there will still be those who suffer from addiction, but it's good to know that some people still take care of others. I will admit that I will never be LDS, but I am very envious of all I hear about the sense of community, and quite frankly most LDS I have met are the nicest people ever. I think that's important for teens at a fragile age to know that community and support will be there. Our society as a whole in the USA is not too fantastic in that department.

[LucyStoner]

Saying that addiction to substances legal or illegal only starts as a character flaw is like saying that anorexia starts because the person made the "choice" to stop eating. I have a brother who came within a hair's breadth of death due to drug addiction. I have another brother who battled eating disorders and anorexia. Both were looking for control and a distraction from some pretty awful situations. Neither is any more of a flawed person than me or any other human on the planet.

 

I had a serious non-substance addiction to work. I did not become addicted merely because I made a bad decision to get a job, did I?

[Corraleno]

do those addictive issues roll over to other vices as well? Gambling, eating, shopping, gaming, etc. I assume people can become addicted to many things, but do those fulfill the role for addictive personality? Can that "high" be obtained through more positive outlets?

 

There was a study done in Korea which tested kids who had gaming addictions for certain genetic markers that related to a dopamine processing deficit. I used to have a copy of the entire paper, which was published in the Journal of Addiction Medicine, but I can't find it. Here is a link to the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21768948

 

The study found that "The Taq1A1 and COMT alleles were significantly more prevalent in the [excessive gaming] group relative to the comparison group." The article noted that this same gene, and the correlated dopamine processing deficit, has been associated with other forms of addiction, including drugs, alcohol, nicotine, and gambling.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

This is incredibly insulting. Character flaw? Wow. People try things. They make mistakes. From the beginning of flipping history, people have tried substances to make them feel better. I guess we're all flawed. Some people drink to ease their pain, and some just inflict pain on others with their nasty and rude words to make themselves feel better.

 

Ironically, lack of empathy may also have a genetic component: "The ability to empathize with others is partially determined by genes, according to new research on mice from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU)." So maybe some people just can't help seeming judgmental and heartless. ;)

 

I will admit that I will never be LDS, but I am very envious of all I hear about the sense of community, and quite frankly most LDS I have met are the nicest people ever. I think that's important for teens at a fragile age to know that community and support will be there. Our society as a whole in the USA is not too fantastic in that department.

 

:iagree:

 

Jackie

[delaney]

 

Can somebody get addicted to drugs or alcohol become that way without first CHOOSING to consume those substances?

 

They made a poor decision and that chosen behavior interacted with their underlying biological predisposition to result in addiction. Do I feel sorry for the pain they are suffering as a result of their mistake? Sure, the same way I feel sorry for somebody who makes a mistake and winds up with an incurable STD or whatever. But it's still ultimately a character flaw rather than a disease that happened to them through no fault of their own.

Would food addiction fall into a character flaw? Should we then judge all fat people to that standard and say they are flawed because they chose to overeat or eat poorly and therefore led themselves into weight gain?

[justamouse]

Look, get off Crimson Wife, even Lisa said those two ideas were debated within the medical community/mental health.

 

Would a person with a predisposition ever fall into addiction had they not had that one drink? Who knows, they did it. If they had better support systems, if they didn't hit a point of struggle, there's MANY reasons people do. Some people even seems to have everything, and still do.

 

Which comes first, the predisposition or the addiction?

 

Really, you don't need to jump down her throat.

[Crimson Wife]

 

PLEASE educate yourself before posting on a topic like this which has had a devastating impact on so many lives, young and old; rich and poor. How is judging people who have difficulties you don't grasp NOT more of a character flaw than being sick or self medicating/trying to drown serious pain? I won't delve into why you are wrong- there is ample medical evidence and hard science that disproves your misconception.

 

 

Drinking alcohol vs. abstaining is a choice.

 

Taking drugs vs. abstaining is a choice.

 

Having s*x vs. abstaining is typically a choice (and when it is not, that's a criminal matter).

 

We all make choices in life, and if we make poor choices that reflects on our character. Alcoholism or drug abuse doesn't just strike down some poor innocent soul who has never done anything wrong like illness can. It is the consequence of poor decisions made by that individual just like when a smoker gets lung cancer. They are suffering because of their own chosen behavior.

[Guest submarines]

I think the important factor is not homeschooled vs. public schooled. It is not even about being exposed to other children or to being more or less supervised. It is, however, about a stable, secure attachment to one's parents, vs. being peer oriented.

 

I do believe that children with secure attachment are less likely to engage in potentially harmful and illegal activities, and if they do become addicted they are more likely to come to their parents for help.

 

I also believe that homeschooling my children gives me a better chance for developing a good relationship with them, and gives them a chance not to become too peer-oriented. Instead, they have variety of role models of different ages in the community.

[LucyStoner]

Vehemently disagreeing with someone is not jumping down someone's throat. It's not as though there are not many doctors, scientists, law enforcement officials etc who agree that addiction is not a choice. Even those that do usually see it as more nuanced than addiction being a moral failing. People can choose not to get help or treatment but people don't choose to become addicted and the circumstances in which people try or use addictive substances may or may not be a choice. Is having surgery and choosing to use the prescribed pain killers really a bad choice? If you haven't ever used them you have no idea if you can safely use them.

[Crimson Wife]

Would food addiction fall into a character flaw? Should we then judge all fat people to that standard and say they are flawed because they chose to overeat or eat poorly and therefore led themselves into weight gain?

 

 

Obesity may have a true medical cause or it may reflect poor lifestyle choices. I leave it up to God to judge whether the individual has treated his/her body as a temple or a garbage dump.

[I.Dup.]

It's pretty impossible to become addicted without trying alcohol/drugs, that's why cultures like LDS work so hard to keep kids AWAY from these substances. Trying them is dangerous. Who doesn't know that? Seriously. It's a choice people make. Saying something is a "character flaw" doesn't mean the person is worse than anyone else. We all have "character flaws" unless you truly believe you're perfect and without any kind of fault.

 

Many people do things out of pain, I would venture to say MOST bad decisions are made out of pain.

[Crimson Wife]

Vehemently disagreeing with someone is not jumping down someone's throat. It's not as though there are not many doctors, scientists, law enforcement officials etc who agree that addiction is not a choice. People can choose not to get help or treatment but people don't choose to become addicted.

 

 

They CHOSE to consume drugs or alcohol. You cannot get addicted if you never start drinking or taking drugs.

[justamouse]

 

Drinking alcohol vs. abstaining is a choice.

 

Taking drugs vs. abstaining is a choice.

 

Having s*x vs. abstaining is typically a choice (and when it is not, that's a criminal matter).

 

We all make choices in life, and if we make poor choices that reflects on our character. Alcoholism or drug abuse doesn't just strike down some poor innocent soul who has never done anything wrong like illness can. It is the consequence of poor decisions made by that individual just like when a smoker gets lung cancer. They are suffering because of their own chosen behavior.

 

 

I prefer to understand the people as broken and needing compassion. We ALL have character flaws, ( otherwise we'd have no need for redemption.)

[justamouse]

It's pretty impossible to become addicted without trying alcohol/drugs, that's why cultures like LDS work so hard to keep kids AWAY from these substances. Trying them is dangerous. Who doesn't know that? Seriously. It's a choice people make. Saying something is a "character flaw" doesn't mean the person is worse than anyone else. We all have "character flaws" unless you truly believe you're perfect and without any kind of fault.

 

Many people do things out of pain, I would venture to say MOST bad decisions are made out of pain.

 

 

Exactly.