Son says he feels depressed

[Halcyon]

I dont even know if he understands the word from a clinical perspective, but he has said this to me a few times over the last month. He is also feeling pretty angry, but cannot say why. He says he wants to punch things, and has asked for a punching bag. Is this hormones? He cannot really explain why he feels down. He just says "I just do." when I press him about what might make him feel better, he says "Playing board games." That is fine, but whenever he isnt playing games (he also loves knee hockey, and basketball) he acts very low, sullen, irritable, and generally morose. Dh and i have discussed him seeing a therapist; at is point, we are not sure. He is completing his school work, but with resistance and attitude, which is not typical for him.

 

Thoughts ? Please don't quote.

 

Update 1/15: better day today. He had his first Lone Pine Latin class, which he LOVED. ( he even asked if they do it every day) and then he and i went to the beach wit hot chocolate and donuts and read our trashy novels (James Dashner for him, some pulp crime novel for me) he was disappointed when we had to leave after and hour (i had patients and DH could only watch younger for an hour or so) but got over it. Then we did some work at home, and we are going to make muffins together and play Othello. Started him on vit D and fish oil, and ordered mega red.

[JudoMom]

My first thought was wondering if he was 10. We've found 10 to be a difficult, puzzling age around here.

[TravelingChris]

I would bring him in to a doctor, at a minimum. With what you are describing, therapy wouldn't make a difference because it is not situational depression. You could try a light box, first, and see if that helps. SInce it is winter, he may just have SAD, which can usually be treated with a light box successfully. However, if that doesn't work and it persists into spring, I would be looking for a doctor who can help guide you through anti-depressants and children.

 

I know I waited too long with both of my kids. The one, I didn't want to admit it plus he was gung-ho at the time on going into the military and I didn't want to stop that dream for him. It was a very bad mistake on my part. With my other child, I mistook her attitude problem for regular teenage angst and the way she described things didn't help either. She also is definitely depressed from chemical imbalances in her brain. What she had been doing is searching for reasons why she was depressed when really the reason is apparantely her dopamine level is too low.

 

Anyway, both kids expressed depression as irritability and apathy, not as sadness. With children and teens, that is often the case- not the whoa is me but the I don't care.

[Ottakee]

I agree that a physical and talk with the doctor woudl be a good place to start. A light box might help. ALso have the doctor check Vit. D levels and other blood work to see if anything is off. The Omega 3s can be very helpful. We use Country Life Omega 3 mood but Omega Brites are another great brand.

 

If these things don't help then I would consider an evaluation by a psychiatrist and medication if needed.

[8circles]

Talk to his doctor. My Ds7 was depressed last year - it was so hard. We changed his diet (GF) and he talked to a psychologist and he has turned a corner for the better. Wish we had done something sooner.

[Halcyon]

My first thought was wondering if he was 10. We've found 10 to be a difficult, puzzling age around here.

 

 

That is what i have been telling dh, but he is just SO different from his "old self". So...perhaps thismis normal? Will it pass?

[Halcyon]

Talk to his doctor. My Ds7 was depressed last year - it was so hard. We changed his diet (GF) and he talked to a psychologist and he has turned a corner for the better. Wish we had done something sooner.

 

 

So u think we should talk to ped first?

[8circles]

 

 

So u think we should talk to ped first?

 

yes, I would. There may be some things to check before referring to a psychologist, if appropriate.

 

I thought I was handling it OK but I ended up almost sobbing when talking to the ped. It was so hard to see my child in so much pain.

 

Eta: I don't mean to be dx'ing your child. It may be totally normal (my oldest is 9 and he definitely has changed lately although i'm not concerned). I just want to encourage you to persue it if you think he might need help.

[MBM]

Anger can be a sign of depression in boys especially.

 

I would highly recommend reading Richard Davidson's book The Emotional Life of Your Brain as well as Dan Siegel's Mindsight. Davidson's explains the six circuits he has identified in the 1000s of fMRI (functional MRI) brain scans that he's studied and what can be done to nudge them in healthy directions (verified by follow-up fMRIs and psychological testing). Siegel is a prof of psychiatry at UCLA who is implementing the work of neuroscientists like Davidson. Really interesting stuff. I think you could find some exercises to help your son feel better. Also, bursts of anaerobic exercise can help to balance neurotransmitters in boys (girls can get by with just aerobics but anaerobic exercise seems to do a better job with boys). You can read more in John Ratey's book Spark.

 

Another good one is Goldie Hawn's 10 Mindful Minutes, written with Dan Siegel.

 

I hope you find a good solution soon.

[texasmama]

Has he always been a sensitive type of child? Or is this a fairly dramatic change? I have a ten year old who is pretty sensitive, and he has gone through times such as you describe. He is very bright, and I have discovered that his mind needs to be occupied or things tend to go south. He needs a lot of engaging hobbies (collecting baseball cards, collecting coins, reading the entire Hardy Boys series). I have a professional background as a therapist with kids/adolescents and I agree that depression in kids can often manifest as irritability. I disagree that therapy won't help. It may or may not be necessary, but I wouldn't say it can't help. Thusfar, I have been able to help my son manage his "feelings", for lack of a better word, without professional help, but I would get therapy for him if I felt in over my head. A good therapist can help you rule out depression which needs further evaluation by a physician versus those developmental bumps in the road or personality traits that happen which cause kids distress. I've worked with a lot of young kids, and I did work with one child who was 9 years old who was truly clinically depressed and needed medication. Most of the rest of the kids I have worked with in therapy responded to therapy without meds (and that included me working with the parents/family, as needed). Some kids benefit from both therapy and meds. Some kids are just very deep thinkers, and they need some help transitioning to a more abstract developmental stage, which a 10 year old is doing PM me if you would like.

[Halcyon]

I agree that a physical and talk with the doctor woudl be a good place to start. A light box might help. ALso have the doctor check Vit. D levels and other blood work to see if anything is off. The Omega 3s can be very helpful. We use Country Life Omega 3 mood but Omega Brites are another great brand.

 

If these things don't help then I would consider an evaluation by a psychiatrist and medication if needed.

 

He was taking omegas...then we ran out. I will order more today. Thank you for the reminder. Can u link up to amazon the ones you use? Thanks.

[Tammy (TX)]

My first thought was wondering if he was 10. We've found 10 to be a difficult, puzzling age around here.

 

 

Yep. I clicked on the thread wondering the same thing. My son, who is now 11, started telling me the exact things you mentioned a year or so ago. It comes and goes with him, and it really does seem to be hormones right now.

[swimmermom3]

Has he always been a sensitive type of child? Or is this a fairly dramatic change? I have a ten year old who is pretty sensitive, and he has gone through times such as you describe. He is very bright, and I have discovered that his mind needs to be occupied or things tend to go south. He needs a lot of engaging hobbies (collecting baseball cards, collecting coins, reading the entire Hardy Boys series). I have a professional background as a therapist with kids/adolescents and I agree that depression in kids can often manifest as irritability. I disagree that therapy won't help. It may or may not be necessary, but I wouldn't say it can't help. Thusfar, I have been able to help my son manage his "feelings", for lack of a better word, without professional help, but I would get therapy for him if I felt in over my head. A good therapist can help you rule out depression which needs further evaluation by a physician versus those developmental bumps in the road or personality traits that happen which cause kids distress. I've worked with a lot of young kids, and I did work with one child who was 9 years old who was truly clinically depressed and needed medication. Most of the rest of the kids I have worked with in therapy responded to therapy without meds (and that included me working with the parents/family, as needed). Some kids benefit from both therapy and meds. Some kids are just very deep thinkers, and they need some help transitioning to a more abstract developmental stage, which a 10 year old is doing PM me if you would like.

 

I would agree that the place to start is with your pediatrician and a physical as well as a depression screening. From there, utilize a good therapist/counselor. Even if your child needs ultimately needs medication, the therapist can help smooth over rough patches while the medication is taking affect or if you need to make changes with the prescription.

 

Our experience has been that the medication can help the child get to a place where they can help themselves. They helped our dd get up out of bed to the point where she could do some of the self-care things like exercising that can make such a difference. But medications don't teach children how to find ways to express how they are feeling. They can lessen symptoms of anxiety, but again, they don't teach a child ways to cope with stressful situations.

 

Which brings up another point. Anxiety is often misdiagnosed as depression. With younger children, anxiety is more common. The difference is important because some depression medications can actually exacerbate anxiety.

 

I wish you all the best and hope that this is only "growing pains."

[JenC3]

I have a 6.5 I'll be watching for depression because he is very emotional/intense and like me. He asks questions like:

"What if there was no God, space, etc. What if there was nothing?"

"Who tells the scientists what they know?"

"What if I don't grow up? What if I don't have enough time?"

[Amy in NH]

He's 10? Puberty.

[Trillian]

My DS 10 (who does struggle with anxiety and sees a therapist for that) also began having these same kind of thoughts/complaints. I think for him a combination of puberty, outgrowing younger hobbies without growing not new things yet, that in between feeling. Since adding a few new hobbies he's seemed better, but it took awhile of trying different things and being willing to admit he was done with the old.

 

 

[Halcyon]

 

 

I would agree that the place to start is with your pediatrician and a physical as well as a depression screening. From there, utilize a good therapist/counselor. Even if your child needs ultimately needs medication, the therapist can help smooth over rough patches while the medication is taking affect or if you need to make changes with the prescription.

 

Our experience has been that the medication can help the child get to a place where they can help themselves. They helped our dd get up out of bed to the point where she could do some of the self-care things like exercising that can make such a difference. But medications don't teach children how to find ways to express how they are feeling. They can lessen symptoms of anxiety, but again, they don't teach a child ways to cope with stressful situations.

 

Which brings up another point. Anxiety is often misdiagnosed as depression. With younger children, anxiety is more common. The difference is important because some depression medications can actually exacerbate anxiety.

 

I wish you all the best and hope that this is only "growing pains."

 

Thank you. It is interesting you speak of anxiety. He does have anxiety issues. And he doesnt show them in a typical way, so sometimes i dont pick up on them. I will try and be more mindful of this. Hoping omega 3s and more alone time with me will help. I am dropping younger off at dh's work tomorrow and older and i are going to the beach with hot chocolates and our favorite novels to sit and read together. He says that will make him feel better. :( i hope so.

[----]

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[Sameera]

Probably only wants a hug & needs to learn how to manage his feelings, avoid processed foods, sugar & gluten (or junk foods), have a healthy diet, do regular exercise and keep occupied with thought provoking learning, engaging activities which really interest him.

 

Charlotte Mason recommended children going outdoors or doing nature study, all seasons :)

[Cassy]

I'm sure this response will displease a lot of people, but I think it's worth asking: does homeschooling suit him?

 

I ask because I know that DS13 would be incredibly depressed if he were homeschooled, he thrives in social situations and loves to be involved in lots of different activities. As well as being at school 7 hours every day he also has activities every evening for an hour or more and is out most weekends.

 

Even DS11 seems so much more exuberant and enthusiastic about life since he started school in September. I really did try everything to make homeschool fun and exciting, with lots of outside activities, but he always seemed very bored and subdued. It's worth mentioning that it was DS11's choice to be homeschooled in the first place, I was always open to him going back to school whenever he wanted to.

 

That's probably not what you wanted to hear, but, as I say, it's worth considering; I have very mixed feelings about homeschooling DS11 now, although at the time it seemed like the perfect education for him.

[Halcyon]

My DS 10 (who does struggle with anxiety and sees a therapist for that) also began having these same kind of thoughts/complaints. I think for him a combination of puberty, outgrowing younger hobbies without growing not new things yet, that in between feeling. Since adding a few new hobbies he's seemed better, but it took awhile of trying different things and being willing to admit he was done with the old.

 

 

Mayi ask what new hobbies he found?

[gingersmom]

Please don't medicate a 10 year old because he expresses feelings of unhappiness. There are so many better ways of dealing with it then taking a pill.

 

I think spending quality time together is a great start. My daughter saw a therapist for several years and it was the best thing I could have done for her. Personally I would skip the pediatrician. I think they are good for sore throats but not much else.

[windmillmarie]

My oldest is doing this to me now, but we are in the same place as you in needing direction. My friend told me her boys went though what she called a kid-life crisis when they were in the 10-14. I hope you find out the source and can help him.

[Scarlett]

Well. My ds will be 13 soon. He is very sensitive, high strung, intense, kind of kid who also asks the hard questions. Through divorce, moving, remarriage, issues with his dad he really became depressed about a year and a half ago. Anger was part of it. He can still be very Eeyore ish and negative. Psychiatrist says it is a personality type on the anxiety scale that he will just need to learn to manage. He has been on meds but we are about to start weaning him off them. I very much did not want him on meds but was afraid at the time. Please don't quote.

[Ottakee]

Here they are http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_15?url=search-alias%3Dhpc&field-keywords=country+life+omega+3+mood&sprefix=country+life+om%2Chpc%2C248&rh=n%3A3760901%2Ck%3Acountry+life+omega+3+mood&ajr=1 but I think I find them cheaper through other retailers.

 

Exercise, sunlight, higher protein diet, etc. can all help.

 

Does he have dad or another male in his life that he can do some "guy" things with? 10 is also an age where they love their mom but are trying to figure out what being a guy is all about.

[MBM]

Please don't medicate a 10 year old because he expresses feelings of unhappiness. There are so many better ways of dealing with it then taking a pill.

 

I think spending quality time together is a great start. My daughter saw a therapist for several years and it was the best thing I could have done for her. Personally I would skip the pediatrician. I think they are good for sore throats but not much else.

 

I agree. If he's not suicidal, cognitive behavior therapy would probably be a good place to start. Even if you do meds, CBT is worth doing as well.

 

If you do go the med route, you must be careful because for some kids who are bipolar, depression presents first. Adding an antidepressant could cause the mania to appear. Siegel describes how he treated a teen who was presenting with depression but was actually bipolar.

[Scarlett]

 

 

I agree. If he's not suicidal, cognitive behavior therapy would probably be a good place to start. Even if you do meds, CBT is worth doing as well.

 

If you do go the med route, you must be careful because for some kids who are bipolar, depression presents first. Adding an antidepressant could cause the mania to appear. Siegel describes how he treated a teen who was presenting with depression but was actually bipolar.

 

My son HATED therapy. Psychiatrist said he wanted to "keep the experiment clean" and let ds stop with the counselor/therapist.

[Ailey]

Based on both what you're noticing and what he's said, I would take him to see his pediatrician. If it were one or the other, I wouldn't be worried, but the combination makes me think that there's a little more going on in his head (whether it's anxiety or depression, it's hard to tell).

 

I think it's too early to consider medication, but like MBM said, CBT is definitely worth looking into.

[MBM]

My son HATED therapy. Psychiatrist said he wanted to "keep the experiment clean" and let ds stop with the counselor/therapist.

 

 

What does that mean to "keep the experiment clean?" What sort of therapy was your son doing?

[J-rap]

I am always so impressed with the advice others give! Wow! I think you've had great advice.

 

Personally, I think I'd start with making sure his diet is balanced, he is getting enough D vitamin (and you can take much more than you think -- my husband takes 5,000 mg/day, although of course he is an adult and has a doctor approving it), and get him involved in a regular vigorous exercise program. I would also take him to a ped dr. or general practitioner just to rule out any other subtle health problem that might be throwing him off.

 

As someone else mentioned, it has been shown that you can help steer brain patterns, so if you can help steer his present emotional stage to a healthy place -- and give him the tools to be able to do it himself -- that would be ideal.

 

I know when my son was about that age, he started to just NEED to exercise regularly.

 

Maybe some of it is boredom, too. Is there some new hobby you can help him get involved with? Or that you can do with him? Building, theater, music, unicycling...

 

I'm glad he is telling you what he is feeling. He is lucky he has a mom he can expressive himself to!

 

Of course if all else fails, then I would seek advice from a professional.

[Scarlett]

 

 

What does that mean to "keep the experiment clean?" What sort of therapy was your son doing?

 

He was going to a counselor every few weeks. He hated it. He got worse and we were very worried so we sent him for evaluation. The psychiatrist put him on meds and he got some better. During this time we significantly decreased therapy sessions. He was improving but still depressed and angry so med was increased. At this point I asked the psychiatrist if we should resume therapy...he said no, let's keep the experiment clean. Meaning, I think, we have been doing meds only let's see if it works.

[MBM]

Aha. I see. Scarlet, that's good you found a solution that works well for your son. Some kids do need the meds for a period of time. That's something Ratey talks about in his book Spark.

[Scarlett]

Aha. I see. Scarlet, that's good you found a solution that works well for your son. Some kids do need the meds for a period of time. That's something Ratey talks about in his book Spark.

 

Yes, and it is not what I preferred. If I was at the place OP is currently I would try many other things.

 

Psychiatrist wants ds to be stable for 6 months with no life stressors. We just has a major move which even if positive is still considered a life stressor. So next month is the magic 6 month time frame and I hope doctor will begin weaning him off.

 

OP I don't mean to thread jack.....these sort of specifics were helpful to me as I navigated what treatment would be best for ds.

[Chris in VA]

I know how hard this is. Just wanted to give you a hug.

[Tammyla]

I don't have any advice, but my experience with hormones has been they go up and down. If your ds, feels depressed and describes himself as angry and depressed, I would take him seriously.

[Guest submarines]

I am always so impressed with the advice others give! Wow! I think you've had great advice.

 

Personally, I think I'd start with making sure his diet is balanced, he is getting enough D vitamin (and you can take much more than you think -- my husband takes 5,000 mg/day, although of course he is an adult and has a doctor approving it), and get him involved in a regular vigorous exercise program. I would also take him to a ped dr. or general practitioner just to rule out any other subtle health problem that might be throwing him off.

 

As someone else mentioned, it has been shown that you can help steer brain patterns, so if you can help steer his present emotional stage to a healthy place -- and give him the tools to be able to do it himself -- that would be ideal.

 

I know when my son was about that age, he started to just NEED to exercise regularly.

 

Maybe some of it is boredom, too. Is there some new hobby you can help him get involved with? Or that you can do with him? Building, theater, music, unicycling...

 

I'm glad he is telling you what he is feeling. He is lucky he has a mom he can expressive himself to!

 

Of course if all else fails, then I would seek advice from a professional.

 

 

Yes to vitamin D, in higher doses. My children take 2000/3000 mg/day, and I take at least 5K.

 

I think the first step is to increase vitamin D, omega essentials, and exercise. Possibly eliminate gluten. There are foods that can help with dopamine levels (http://naturalsociety.com/how-to-increase-dopamine-levels-foods/)

 

If he wants a punching bag, get him one--that was a very healthy for him to realize what he needs and articulate it.

[Trillian]

 

 

Mayi ask what new hobbies he found?

 

 

He got really into whittling; my mom got him a Dremel for Christmas and now he's going to carve designs into rocks with it as well.

 

He does an animation program on the computer; it's a freeware, Stykx (I think), of stick men.

 

He started hockey, his first "real" sport in years. Previously he had taken P.E. classes.

 

Also, most recently (so I don't know if it's going to stick), we've added a 2nd park day and volunteering at a farm. He's also playing around with one LEDS he bought and making "inventions." He really likes this Popular Science Hacks book he picked up with a gift card at Christmas ("I can make a laser gun!").

 

So, we both increased his time out of the house. He does better if he can have at least some time every day; I've had to learn to deal with it and my DH takes him to somethings so I can get some downtime. And, he found new things to do at home. He said when he was younger, I would tell him to play outside and he just would. Now, he really wasn't sure what to do. Having the carving to take outside, or we have a dog we're training, inventions to make, having a purpose for his time outside became important.

 

Previously he would just play outside, play Legos, and imaginative type games.

 

FWIW, I think he is one that would like the social aspects of school and I do keep that in my mind. He also hates the thought of it and is much happier now.

 

Good luck!

[Halcyon]

Update in op.

 

Any suggestions forworkouts he can do at home? He likes the Wii if there are any kid workouts for that, and has hockey twice a week, but it isnt enough.

[VeteranMom]

I'd have his B12 and Vitamin D levels checked.

[texasmama]

That's a positive update in your OP. Hang in there, mama - you're doing a good thing.

[Halcyon]

Thanks texasmama. Although we just had a family meltdown over minecraft, so all bets are off right now.

 

 

[texasmama]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I will tell you that while I was at work today (and dh was home with the three littles), I received about three meltdown phone calls from my 10 yo regarding his many complaints about treatment from various members of the family in my absence. Also, apparently, we only have frozen peas and crackers to eat in the house. (So. not. true. ;) )

[shukriyya]

Also, apparently, we only have frozen peas and crackers to eat in the house. (So. not. true. ;) )

 

 

:smilielol5:

 

OP, glad to hear your day was a positive one for you both.

[Halcyon]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I will tell you that while I was at work today (and dh was home with the three littles), I received about three meltdown phone calls from my 10 yo regarding his many complaints about treatment from various members of the family in my absence. Also, apparently, we only have frozen peas and crackers to eat in the house. (So. not. true. ;) )

Oh, I hear you. I cooked like a mad woman all weekend just so I wouldn't have to hear those words. I cooked banana bread, cinnamon rolls, muffins, cookies.

 

Guess what older says to me today? "How come there isn't anything to eaaaaaaat???" :smash: