What do we teach our kids about doing what they love?

[justamouse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf49a88XRKk&feature=player_embedded

[my2boysteacher]

I agree that we should help our children find their passion, and give them what they need to be successful in that career field. However, we also teach our boys that they will need to find a job which enables them to support a family. I am hoping they marry sweet, smart women who will homeschool our grandchildren. :)

[Laura Corin]

I consider this a lot at present. And I think the story is different based on what country you live in. Calvin was shortlisted in a national competition for poetry. He wants to be a poet. Luckily, he has decided that he writes best if he has little time to write: the small snatches crystalise his writing.

 

But then, what does he do with the rest of his time and how does he make money? He is thinking about going into publishing, which is a very competitive field, but I'm not going to put him off just because he might not make it. It also doesn't pay much even if he can get in, as there's an oversupply of people eager to join the field.

 

He lives in the UK, which has a national health service and a fairly decent safety net. Things could certainly change in the next ninety years, but I don't feel the need to say: study accounting instead of English and get a proper job. I expect that he and any future partner will both need to work. Maybe I'll be around to help out with babies, maybe they will be in daycare. I'm sure they will be fine.

 

My current job is not thrilling. But I've spent a lot of time travelling, home educating, doing precisely what I wanted. Being a bit bored now is just fine. I wouldn't want my children to start out thinking that boredom was the sum total of their forty-five-year working lives. If that happens, so be it. But I'm not going to push them that way.

 

Laura

[Reya]

Doing something you quite like can be better because there is more to life that the job itself. There are your coworkers, your working conditions (including how you are treated and the number of hours you are expected to work), your standard of living, and the region in which you can live to get a certain job.

[jenL]

I think this is the most idealistic way to view life. Is it true reality? I'm not sure. It would be absolutely ideal for everyone to do what they love, but how does one sustain themselves in the process: food, shelter, etc? Is it realistic to think you can have it immediately??? Or, is it a goal to achieve while doing things as a means to an end in the process (ie. working in a job you just like vs. love in order to work toward your love)?

 

I believe lots of people settle because that is easier. When life becomes filled with a mortgage, children, high food costs, and so on, the idea of doing what you love becomes a luxury. Dh has done this. He is not miserable, but he's not passionate about his job. He just is. We have a good life, and we feel thankful. Does he sometimes feel like something is lacking in the job department, yes, but it's not feasible now to go do what he loves because of age, money, time. Could he try for it later, sure. Does that mean the rest of his life has been a waste? No, because that would negate the value of all the life experiences up to this point.

 

How does one get to doing what they love when money is an object (school loans, rent, health care)? Everything in the path of getting to do what you love costs something: money, time, location, relationships.

 

What if you love many things? Won't you always feel as if you are missing something if they are not able to be combined? Or, is the premise that you can create anything if you love it that much and work toward it?

 

There are so many variables to the reality of this mindset. When it comes to teaching our kids, we are encouraging them to find their passion and to reach for it, but we are also teaching them that it may take lots of hard work to get there and that sometimes life throws you curve balls that interfere with the ideal. I think our society makes it seem as if just following your dreams will lead to instant gratification. Unfortunately, that is not the way life works. Not everything lands in your lap no matter how passionate you are about it.

 

Lots to ponder in regards to this subject...

[Joshin]

Although I agree with Watts on many levels, I also think he overly simplified it and didn't mention that it takes hard work and sacrifice. DH and I do what we love, but we paid our dues. My older son in particular remembers the sacrificing involved. He still remembers the four of us in a one bedroom apartment in an iffy area of town and he remembers weeks with spaghetti every night because there was no other food in the house. When I first switched to full time writing and DH became a full time artist, we had to deliver newspapers to ensure bills were paid. We switched off nights except for the big Sunday paper, when we stuck sleeping kids in the back of the car and did it together. DS12 (he was six at the time) would wake up and help us roll and deliver the papers. It was an awful but wonderful time. It brought us all closer and it allowed DH and I to finally become successful at following our passions.

 

So yes, I teach my children passions first. I would be hypocritical otherwise. We also teach them to always have a plan B. You want to paint? Wonderful, go to school for it, though, so you can teach art to pay the bills until you get your breakthrough gallery showing. DS12 wants to be a nature photographer/filmmaker, his current plant is to major in biology/zoology and minor in photo or film. He figures a degree like that allows him to work a variety of nature related jobs in case filmmaking doesn't work out. DS7 wants to be an astronaut, been his dream for years. He knows how difficult selection is, so he is also perfectly content with the idea of being a physicist or aerospace engineer (granted, he's 7 and this can change)!

 

I believe in teaching children to follow their passions. But, I believe they shouldn't limit themselves to one passion and they need to develop a couple so they always have a fall back position. Also, for some people, taking care of their family or having time for various hobbies is the passion. For these people, a job viewed as boring is just fine, because it's the means for following their passion.

[justamouse]

Although I agree with Watts on many levels, I also think he overly simplified it and didn't mention that it takes hard work and sacrifice. DH and I do what we love, but we paid our dues.

 

But isn't it easier to sacrifice fr something we're in love with? Sacrifice for obligation is just torture. Sacrifice for love can be transcendent.

[Laura Corin]

But isn't it easier to sacrifice fr something we're in love with? Sacrifice for obligation is just torture. Sacrifice for love can be transcendent.

 

Yes: just because you settle for a boring job, it doesn't mean that life will be plain sailing. Husband has been out of work for almost two years, looking for jobs he's not very interested in. He's living away from his family in order to find a boring job.

 

Laura

[I.Dup.]

I think it's a pie in the sky dream to think we can all do what we love and make money at it. I'm tired of hearing that, it's discouraging. I would LOVE for dh to be able to work from home. Especially if he were to start up a business that our boys could one day do with him. But he is just not the type to do that. He has no motivation to start something like that. He was great in the military because he thrives on being told what to do. I don't understand that, but that's how he is.

 

I love scrapbooking and dealing with babies. But the reality of making enough money doing that is something I cannot even comprehend. Do I start a day care? No. I could become a PP doula which I would love, but then I would have to do a lot of marketing and deal with charging people (sales) which I hate. Same with scrapbooking. I don't see how I could make a living doing either.

[amy g.]

Well I 100% do agree with this idealistic view of life, and this is what I have taught my children.

 

I believe that each of my children was born for a purpose. My job is to help the look to God and within themselves to discover what that purpose is. I tell them that when a job is so fun that they say, "I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this!" then that is a strong indication that they are on the right track.

 

This is part of why I feel strongly about making sure they have access to plenty of extracurricular activities. I feel it is important to try things out and experiment. Every time they say, "I'm not so sure this is what I want to do." we are one step closer to discovering what they do want and refining the vision.

 

I had my oldest extensively tested when she was going into 9th grade. She ended up having multiple learning disabilities and Autism. You may know how some people with Autism have a subject that they are obsessively interested and knowledgeable about. Well my daughter is obsessed with animals. The doctor doing the testing commented on how it was so lucky that she is obsessed with animals, and we just so happen to live on a farm.

 

Well that isn't quite correct. When she was 12, I went to my husband, and said,"I don't believe her passion is going to change, so I think we should sell this big beautiful house, and buy some land where you can double your commute and she can get closer to fulfilling her purpose. Because my Dh is as idealistic as I am, he said,"That is a great idea."

 

Fast forward 6 years and she is doing great with her company and has more offers than she can accept.

 

She isn't the only one. When my son was 8, he was already teaching piano lessons to the 5 year old down the street. He has never been employed, but I can't remember a time when he did not have money in the bank. When he was in the nerf gun stage, he researched which ones were in demand, found good deals on them, modified them, and sold them at a huge profit. He even bought yards of foam tubing and made bullets that he sold. When he outgrew that stage, he sold his personal collection for $1,000 plus. Next, he became interested in knives. He now has a booming business buying, modifying and reselling these. He never buys anything that he isn't certain he can sell for more, even for his personal use. He has been very successful at making his hobbies pay.

 

My next child is only 14. She has always been interested in sewing, which I know absolutely nothing about. I bought her a sewing machine and a serger, and got several classes for her that were not really good fits, but each one took us closer to the one that is really perfect.

 

A young lady who was home schooled, herself comes over once a week to teach Dd. They have become best friends. One of their projects was sewing costumes for us for when we work at the Renaissance Festival. So many people came up to us asking where we bought our costumes because they were nicer that the ones in the shop. A shop owner noticed. He gave Dd a contract for her work. She needs to make at least 3 of every costume she wants to sell. She needs to tell him how much she wants for the costume. Then he will double that and sell it in his shop for that price. I keep telling him that he needs to set the price for her, or at least pay her on consignment so he isn't stuck with stuff too expensive to sell. He said that is not an issue, because they are going to sell. So here is my 14 year old with the opportunity to make as much money as she wants doing what she is passionate about.

 

My whole point is that I do not want my children making choices our of fear that they won't have enough money. I want them asking themselves, it the path that is meant for me.

 

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

It's great if they can enjoy what they do - but they have to be able to support themselves and their families.

 

dd is a classics major - every single time I asked her what she was going to do with that, she'd be angry and tell me not to bother her with details. She learned.

at least the other kids were much more foresightful.

[justamouse]

I think it's a pie in the sky dream to think we can all do what we love and make money at it. I'm tired of hearing that, it's discouraging. I would LOVE for dh to be able to work from home. Especially if he were to start up a business that our boys could one day do with him. But he is just not the type to do that. He has no motivation to start something like that. He was great in the military because he thrives on being told what to do. I don't understand that, but that's how he is.

 

I love scrapbooking and dealing with babies. But the reality of making enough money doing that is something I cannot even comprehend. Do I start a day care? No. I could become a PP doula which I would love, but then I would have to do a lot of marketing and deal with charging people (sales) which I hate. Same with scrapbooking. I don't see how I could make a living doing either.

 

 

That is him, don't you see? He won't ever move away from that into your dream, because that's not who he is.

 

My whole life has been a slow climb to a project I am starting this year. Everything I have learned/done within my sphere of things I love to do has been giving me the tools I need for what I am about to embark upon.

 

Julia Child took her first cooking class when she was 37.

 

I am 41. I did not have time when my babies were little, I was too busy raising them, but I never stopped learning. Now, as they are a bit older, I have the time to devote to my project. If i had started earlier, I wouldn't have the tools I needed. If I didn't wander down the paths I have, I wouldn't have the tools I needed. And, I need every one--which is wild when I think about it. I'm content to do it now because my children aren't the sole focus of my day and I'm not torn in priorities--and raising them? I wouldn't have found it without them.

 

My Dh has a talent for business and finance. It's just him. He could never, ever, work for anyone but himself and he's done so since he was 18 and his parents gave him his first loan of 3 grand.

 

If you listen to yourself, and if you think deeply about where you are always drawn and where your talents lie, you'll find it. It's almost a revelation because you knew you loved it all along, it was just buried under Should.

 

Well I 100% do agree with this idealistic view of life, and this is what I have taught my children.

 

I believe that each of my children was born for a purpose. My job is to help the look to God and within themselves to discover what that purpose is. I tell them that when a job is so fun that they say, "I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this!" then that is a strong indication that they are on the right track.

 

This is part of why I feel strongly about making sure they have access to plenty of extracurricular activities. I feel it is important to try things out and experiment. Every time they say, "I'm not so sure this is what I want to do." we are one step closer to discovering what they do want and refining the vision.

 

I had my oldest extensively tested when she was going into 9th grade. She ended up having multiple learning disabilities and Autism. You may know how some people with Autism have a subject that they are obsessively interested and knowledgeable about. Well my daughter is obsessed with animals. The doctor doing the testing commented on how it was so lucky that she is obsessed with animals, and we just so happen to live on a farm.

 

Well that isn't quite correct. When she was 12, I went to my husband, and said,"I don't believe her passion is going to change, so I think we should sell this big beautiful house, and buy some land where you can double your commute and she can get closer to fulfilling her purpose. Because my Dh is as idealistic as I am, he said,"That is a great idea."

 

Fast forward 6 years and she is doing great with her company and has more offers than she can accept.

 

She isn't the only one. When my son was 8, he was already teaching piano lessons to the 5 year old down the street. He has never been employed, but I can't remember a time when he did not have money in the bank. When he was in the nerf gun stage, he researched which ones were in demand, found good deals on them, modified them, and sold them at a huge profit. He even bought yards of foam tubing and made bullets that he sold. When he outgrew that stage, he sold his personal collection for $1,000 plus. Next, he became interested in knives. He now has a booming business buying, modifying and reselling these. He never buys anything that he isn't certain he can sell for more, even for his personal use. He has been very successful at making his hobbies pay.

 

My next child is only 14. She has always been interested in sewing, which I know absolutely nothing about. I bought her a sewing machine and a serger, and got several classes for her that were not really good fits, but each one took us closer to the one that is really perfect.

 

A young lady who was home schooled, herself comes over once a week to teach Dd. They have become best friends. One of their projects was sewing costumes for us for when we work at the Renaissance Festival. So many people came up to us asking where we bought our costumes because they were nicer that the ones in the shop. A shop owner noticed. He gave Dd a contract for her work. She needs to make at least 3 of every costume she wants to sell. She needs to tell him how much she wants for the costume. Then he will double that and sell it in his shop for that price. I keep telling him that he needs to set the price for her, or at least pay her on consignment so he isn't stuck with stuff too expensive to sell. He said that is not an issue, because they are going to sell. So here is my 14 year old with the opportunity to make as much money as she wants doing what she is passionate about.

 

My whole point is that I do not want my children making choices our of fear that they won't have enough money. I want them asking themselves, it the path that is meant for me.

 

 

LOVE this. Thank you for sharing all of that.

[justamouse]

It's great if they can enjoy what they do - but they have to be able to support themselves and their families.

 

dd is a classics major - every single time I asked her what she was going to do with that, she'd be angry and tell me not to bother her with details. She learned.

at least the other kids were much more foresightful.

 

 

That's like asking me why I bothered to learn classics (my thimbleful of knowledge of which I wish to God I knew more of now), or why we teach our children classically despite being scientifically bent or artists or whatnot.

 

 

I can think of a million ideas for her. Starting a classical homeschool charter being one...God, we need more understanding of those ideas and why they were the driving force of Western Civilization. What we're missing now and how we get back to using those ideas.

 

My son will probably be in either engineering or music. How on earth would he not benefit from learning about the classics? IT's not either or, it's both and. Classics are the ultimate foundation upon to build anything. Art, science, humanities--

 

At the least, if she homeschools her own children, the education she'll be able to give them is what we all strive for for our own homeschools...

[Murphy101]

Whenever someone says "don't worry about the money" I think it cancels out whatever sense might have been previously uttered. Only people who have plenty of money can afford the luxury of saying such foolishness.

 

Money is absolutely not the most important thing. But it's sure vital to buying some very important things. Things like food, clothing, shelters, healthcare...

 

I don't discourage my kids from pursuing any of their interests, presuming there's not a moral issue, but I'm also pragmatic about it and practical in how I advise them to pursue those interests. The choice is theirs, but I see no reason to feed them some pie in the sky be the dream stuff either.

 

Truth is, you can't grow up to be anything you want to be. For lots of valid reasons.

[Murphy101]

I think there is a difference between asking why someone enjoys something, which might be for the simple sake of the enjoyment itself, and developing an expectation that they can do anything.

 

Truth is maybe they can or maybe they can't.

 

Or maybe the price isn't worth it to them for various reasons.

[I.Dup.]

I think there is a difference between asking why someone enjoys something, which might be for the simple sake of the enjoyment itself, and developing an expectation that they can do anything.

 

Truth is maybe they can or maybe they can't.

 

 

Exactly.

 

I do agree that is my dh. But he does not "love" his job. Not at all. He likes it fine but he's the contented type that would find something to like in everything. :) But he would much rather be home, or doing something related to his hobbies (who wouldn't?). But in order to get a paycheck, he must do what he is told or we won't make any money. ;)

 

I don't get how money can't be a major, if not even main, consideration. It's nice to think we can do everything we want and make plenty of money doing it, but either most of us are stupid or it's just not possible.

 

I do like what you said, mouse, about starting something later in life. That is inspiring.

[amy g.]

I guess can't and not possible just aren't in my vocabulary. Neither exists for me. Everything that does not work out is just a step closer to what really will work.

 

My husband loves his job. I'm doing what I d always wanted to do. My sister is pursuing her dream, so are my children.

 

Sure there are issues to overcome, Sure it takes unbelievable discipline and hard work. I encourage my kids to get out there and start doing something instead of sitting around talking a out why doing something won't work.

[cathmom]

I am with you, mouse! Unfortunately, dh is not.

[justamouse]

Whenever someone says "don't worry about the money" I think it cancels out whatever sense might have been previously uttered. Only people who have plenty of money can afford the luxury of saying such foolishness.

 

Money is absolutely not the most important thing. But it's sure vital to buying some very important things. Things like food, clothing, shelters, healthcare...

 

I don't discourage my kids from pursuing any of their interests, presuming there's not a moral issue, but I'm also pragmatic about it and practical in how I advise them to pursue those interests. The choice is theirs, but I see no reason to feed them some pie in the sky be the dream stuff either.

 

Truth is, you can't grow up to be anything you want to be. For lots of valid reasons.

 

 

This sounds like sour grapes. There is nothing stopping you from pursuing a dream, even when you're flipping burgers at the flopper whopper. I don't want to be president, yanno? I'm not trying to be anything --I'm building something that can sustain us out of my talent.

 

When Dh and I were first married and had not two nickels, we had passion to build what HE could do--I was pregnant and still learning about where I was headed (had I headed my talents when I was younger, had my parents pointed it out, I wouldn't have struggled so. Now it's so stinking obvious it's ridiculous). We lived on nothing for many years, and made the big scary leaps before kids. Though, in reality, if faced with a fork in the road even now, we'd make the scary decisions because that's how we are. Of course we'd have a plan B, but we'd be drowning before we took it.

 

This is why building the foundation for your children is so important. If Dh's parents hadn't given him that seed $ when he was in HS, he never would have been prepared (in experience) for what we embarked upon.

 

If my parents had pointed out what was so obvious, I wouldn't have floundered and had my 10k hours in before I was 20.

 

Even AS we were building the company, I was being creative. I sold jewelry, I made wedding dresses, I hustled in the craft/arts world. All were lessons. IN MNAY ways I missed the boat on my ideas because now they're being marketed on the web in ways that had I stayed true--my hard work would have crossed paths with opportunity and I could have been already in business.

[Murphy101]

Can't and not possible are reality for you and everyone else. No one is sitting around moping about why it won't work, but discussing obstacles is rather basic to overcoming them.

 

I agree that learning to view those realities in a positive light and make the best of whatever comes our way is probably key to success and happiness for just about anyone.

[Murphy101]

I don't have sour grapes at all. I'm very happy with my life.

 

I'm stating facts of reality. *shrugs*

[FaithManor]

Reality is often a squasher of dreams.

 

Our eldest boy is very artistic. The reality is that where his talent lies, there aren't any jobs that pay a living wage, period. Do we stop him from pursuing his passion? No...we've given him many avenues through which he can pursue it. Are we realistic about the fact that we can't and won't support him forever? Yes. We've helped him explore areas of interest and helped him find something that he is good at and would be content to do "to make a living" while he has his art on the side. He has chosen something in a technology related field and will be able to be gainfully employed. He'll also have time here and there to enjoy his art.

 

I have degrees in my passions...piano performance, piano pedagogy, and philosophy (LOL, that one is particularly NOT useful for employment purposes but it sure was fun studying!). In this economy, if I needed my passion to provide my bread and butter, I'd be in a world of hurting. Parents do not have money to pay for lessons, schools are cutting their music departments, orchestras are closing up, laying off, firing players, etc. paying gigs, other than lower paying ones such as weddings, are few and far between.

 

I am VERY grateful I had the opportunity to pursue my passion. However, I'm also very grateful that dh had a more practical major and remains gainfully employed doing something that he's genuinely interested in.

 

DD has a passion for trauma medicine so remaining employed is kind of a no brainer for her. She gets to make money and ADORE her job...well, most days...some patients just make a person want to scream or go fruity. Most days, it's very good. The other two boys have passions that are within very employable STEM fields. So, if they find a good employer and have decent co-workers I think they are likely to really enjoy their work. That said, if you have employment in your passion but have a lousy employment environment, the passion doesn't look so good anymore.

 

The only people I really see having the option of just pursuing passion for the sake of passion are generally the upper class. If there is family money so that one need not earn a living from the passion, then one can pursue it for the pure sake thereof. However, for most people, that isn't a reality.

 

That said, I am truly thankful that we are genuinely happy with our lives and how they've turned out...well, minus the neighbors dog that won't stay home and killed my chickens...I have strong passions about that, but those are negative and shouldn't be pursued! LOL

 

Faith

[texasmama]

Dh and I are teaching our kids to pursue a career for which they have passion. He is coming from a place of having a college degree in a discipline he dislikes, followed by 15 years in that field. (He followed his older brother's footsteps in a family in which individuality was not valued). For the past five years, he has owned and operated his own business in a related field, which is the best mid-life choice for him. I did pursue a field for which I had passion and worked in that field for years. Now, my passion is for teaching my kids. :) If I had to design a perfect paid gig for myself, it would likely be teaching literature classically to other people's kids someday. Barring that, I could also sell it all and move to Africa to help the poor. Or become a nurse. Or go into hospice work. Or be a doula. Or adopt 6 kids and raise them until I am too old to do anything else. :) So many dreams, so little time. However, I had opportunities to pursue what I felt passionate about in my youth, and I am very grateful for that. It taught me a great deal, as has not doing it and doing something else for this season. I look forward to the third stage of my life, whatever that may look like.

[GailV]

Disclosure: I didn't watch the clip the OP linked.

 

But whenever I hear the "follow your passion" shtick, I immediately think of Cal Newport. Anyone else think of him when they saw this thread? His latest book is on debunking the notion that "follow your passion" is good advice. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1455509124/ "Passion comes after you put in the hard work to become excellent at something valuable, not before."

 

I know I'm not the only Cal Newport fan here -- several others have found some insight in his books about how to study in high school and in college. I don't think he's infallible by a long shot, but I like thinking about his ideas, and hearing what others think of his ideas. I haven't read the book I just linked -- has anyone?

[fairfarmhand]

But isn't it easier to sacrifice fr something we're in love with? Sacrifice for obligation is just torture. Sacrifice for love can be transcendent.

 

but sometimes you sacrifice because you love your family (or eating or having a decent place to live) and that sacrifice is to do what you have to do, even if its not your first choice. IOW, you may love your family more than say basketweaving (your true passion!) so you sacrifice by teaching school and teach basketweaving on the weekends.

 

You can have multiple passions and your passion does not necessarily be the thing that you do every day to pay the bills. My dh loves farming. We'd have to live in a mud hut to farm full time, so he works all week and farms on the weekends.

 

I love to write, sew and draw. I'm excited about the future when I'll have more time to do those, but for now, I sacrifice my time to pursue those passions because I feel that homeschooling my kids is more important.

 

(ps, I didn't watch the clip. I;m just commenting on other people's comments)

[fairfarmhand]

Also, not working daily in your passion area does not mean you're condemned to a life of misery. You just find creative ways of managing your time so that you can squeeze in your fun stuff.

[cathmom]

I think it's different when you are talking about an adult with a family versus a young adult starting out. Honestly, what other way is there to plan a life than to follow and fulfill your passion(s)?

 

I just read a book that asked two questions:

 

1. Would you do what you are doing if you weren't getting paid?

 

2. If you had one year left to live, would you do what you are doing?

 

If you say yes to #1, then you are in a good field for you. If no to #2, you could die next year and you would have spent your last year doing something you don't like! That's what the clip she posted says, that if you do something you hate to make a living, then you are doing something you hate to make money so you can keep living so you can keep doing something you hate!!!

 

Now, if you already have three dc and they need shoes and winter coats, etc, then your working serves a higher purpose and is not in vain, even if you don't like it.

[Joshin]

A lot comes down to personal values, which are unique to each person. Some people value money more. Some people make mistakes young and that forces money to become more important for a time. Some passions you're willing to sacrifice for, others you aren't. I'm teaching my boys to embark on adulthood debt-free and with an open mind -- I've learned those two things give you the most room to follow those passions.

 

My passion is and always has been a tossup between writing and gardening. I blended the two and found success (although not right away). Do I like every aspect of it? No! I hate the business end - accounting, dealing with publishers, marketing. But dealing with those are well worth it to me when I sit down everyday to write and realize someone is paying me to do it. As an artist, DH spent much of his twenties delivering pizzas. He kept drawing and kept researching opportunities and he now does book covers, magazine art, and some game art. He pads that with graphic design services for small businesses, which he doesn't adore but is a sacrifice worth making to work as an artist.

 

Too many people use "pursue your passions" and "follow your bliss" to mean they aren't going to work at anything and just expect something to fall in their laps. That's not how it works. You have to work hard at it, you have to be willing to do some things you don't enjoy sometimes. But even those unenjoyable aspects are much more satisfying when done in pursuit of a dream rather than "just to get by."

 

Sometimes we have to modify our dreams, but we don't usually have to stray far from our passions. Sure, if my passion was to become president it isn't likely, but I could still enter local government fairly easily and follow a passion for politics (an example, I have no urge to enter government :D ). Following your passion isn't a black and white, either/or proposition. There are many shades and degrees to everyone's passions that could be turned into viable career choices.

[justamouse]

Disclosure: I didn't watch the clip the OP linked.

 

But whenever I hear the "follow your passion" shtick, I immediately think of Cal Newport. Anyone else think of him when they saw this thread? His latest book is on debunking the notion that "follow your passion" is good advice. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1455509124/ "Passion comes after you put in the hard work to become excellent at something valuable, not before."

 

I know I'm not the only Cal Newport fan here -- several others have found some insight in his books about how to study in high school and in college. I don't think he's infallible by a long shot, but I like thinking about his ideas, and hearing what others think of his ideas. I haven't read the book I just linked -- has anyone?

 

It's not either or, he's posing a false dichotomy.

 

First you have to have a talent for it. Then you have to put in your 10k hours, which is not fun, no matter how you cut it. Painting isn't all bliss. There is a sagging middle to *everything* in life, and if you are going to succeed, you need to work past that. On every project. Every time.

 

Then, after you've put in your 10k, you get to a point where you understand your medium enough to *play* with it, and that's where the fun comes in. But until then? You're making bricks. Whether it's a living as an actuary, an astronaut or artist.

 

The part that sucks about being an artist (in any way) is that people assume because you were born with this seed of talent that you didn't have to *work* at it, and therefore you should be paid a pittance. Yeah....not.

[Murphy101]

I don't think talent comes first. I think thinking it does is why so many people give up because "oh well. I'm not talented at that. I'm not a natural at it."

 

It's not a coincidence that some of the most talented people in the world put in over 10k hours to their skill.

 

No amount of talent can make up for lack of personal motivation to put in the time. However there are plenty of people highly talented at what they are doing not due to some innate ability, but due far more to the sweat they put into acquiring the skill.

[I.Dup.]

Can every talent make money? Can every artist make a living at what they do...and if they don't, they're just not working hard enough? Is that what you all are saying?

[Murphy101]

There also seems to be a false logic that people are talented in what they are passionate about. That's often just not true.

 

The converse is also not always true. Many people aren't passionate about their more natural talents. And making a career out of them just makes it a chore.

[I.Dup.]

Even what we love...can everyone who loves to cook make money doing it? Everyone who loves to collect miniature trains, make metal sculptures, write poetry, etc. If they truly love it, is that enough to make a living off of it, with just enough hard work?

[Joshin]

Can every talent make money? Can every artist make a living at what they do...and if they don't, they're just not working hard enough? Is that what you all are saying?

 

Why would every talent make money? I'm double jointed in my fingers, which translates to having a natural talent to gross out kids and adults on a whim. I'm not passionate about it, though! DH also has some natural musical talent (he can play almost any instrument by ear). He never developed it because it wasn't his main passion, although he does enjoy playing on occasion. Someone could be a naturally talented artist, but their passion is medicine so that is what they choose to develop.

 

I think every artist that has a true passion for it, and enough passion to put in the sweat equity to get good at it and get through the hard parts, can make a living at it. Not every artist has that passion or they have other things they value more. I could have come right out of college, worked in my major, and owned a home, two cars and had the standard American dream life if I had wanted. For me it was worth it to struggle for years below the poverty line working at and honing my passion before getting the rewards, others find the rewards more valuable so they sacrifice the passion. There's no right or wrong, just different values and choices.

 

Of course, the old adage is also true -- sometimes its not how hard you work but how you work. I have known plenty of novice writers that work hard marketing their stuff, but they don't work on developing their writing skill (often thinking it's already perfect, usually because someone once told them they are talented). If they were working on the right thing first -- writing skill -- they'd be more likely to find success later. Those in creative fields, in my experience, tend to suffer from this tendency more than those with more technical passions, such as nursing, science or math.

 

Another false belief is that all talent must be innate, something you are born with. This simply is not true! I wasn't a born writer or born with a green thumb. I worked hard at it because I was passionate about it. I have no natural talent for languages, but I do honestly believe that if I had a passion for them I would be able to master one and become a translator. Of course, that's not my dream.

 

Most people aren't born with talents. Instead, we find our passion which drives us to develop a skill, which is then looked upon by others as talent. Talent and passion are not the same thing. Things you are passionate about can make you money, if you find it valuable enough to put in the time and effort. A natural talent can pave the way, but is not a prerequisite for success.

[justamouse]

Dh is good at what he does. Yes, he has a natural talent for it, because he's tried to teach people and they just don't get it. There is NO WAY in God's green earth I could do what he does, it's all numbers and formulas and it makes me crazy just thinking about it. I don't even want to be taught it. I am not remotely interested.

 

So, what I call talent, others may call an understanding.

 

You could put me in school to be an accountant and no matter how much you taught me, I'd suck at it. So I don't believe that you can be taught anything and the hard work of it makes you successful.

 

iDup, my brother's SO just got a job as a chef. Today. She is passionate about cooking. So. yes, I think if you hustle, you can.

[cathmom]

 

Most people aren't born with talents. Instead, we find our passion which drives us to develop a skill, which is then looked upon by others as talent. Talent and passion are not the same thing. Things you are passionate about can make you money, if you find it valuable enough to put in the time and effort. A natural talent can pave the way, but is not a prerequisite for success.

 

Yes! I get irritated when people think because I speak three languages that I must have a natural talent for languages and can pick them up easily! It took hard work but I love languages so I put in the work. And guess what? It got me jobs and I can make a living at it.

[cathmom]

Plus, what is a living? Does every job need to make at least $50k? Or could a family or friends live together and each do what they love to combine and make a living for all of them? It'd be a lot easier in a country with universal health coverage and without gazillions of dollars in student loan debt, that's for sure!

[Heather in Neverland]

I think "passionate" is a dicey word.

 

I love my job. I work hard and I do a good job and I get paid.

 

Would I do it if I wasn't getting paid? Heck no! I'd get a job that did pay a salary! If I wasn't getting paid then how would we eat?

 

Or do you mean would I do it if I were independently wealthy and didn't NEED the money? Then the answer is I'm not sure. I have never had the luxury in my entire life to think about being wealthy enough that I could choose to spend every day any way I please. If I did have that kind of money, I would do all sorts of different things. Does that mean I am not "passionate" enough about my career?

 

I have the desire, the skill, the qualifications, the liberty, and the character to do my job. I enjoy doing it and I get paid. Isn't that enough? Tagging "passionate" onto it makes me feel like if I am not willing to do it for free then I don't "really" love what I do.

 

I think that is hogwash.

 

 

 

[I.Dup.]

My dh just sent me this video and it made me smile and think of this thread. :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR3RCzNFdmU&feature=player_embedded

[justamouse]

Lol! I love it!!! Man, I would drive by him just to smile.

[justamouse]

I think "passionate" is a dicey word.

 

I love my job. I work hard and I do a good job and I get paid.

 

Would I do it if I wasn't getting paid? Heck no! I'd get a job that did pay a salary! If I wasn't getting paid then how would we eat?

 

Or do you mean would I do it if I were independently wealthy and didn't NEED the money? Then the answer is I'm not sure. I have never had the luxury in my entire life to think about being wealthy enough that I could choose to spend every day any way I please. If I did have that kind of money, I would do all sorts of different things. Does that mean I am not "passionate" enough about my career?

 

I have the desire, the skill, the qualifications, the liberty, and the character to do my job. I enjoy doing it and I get paid. Isn't that enough? Tagging "passionate" onto it makes me feel like if I am not willing to do it for free then I don't "really" love what I do.

 

I think that is hogwash.

 

 

 

I bet, though, that you would teach people regardless. That it's just a part of who you are and that something always turns into a lesson. Because you are passionate about education, and you love your students.

[GailV]

I don't think talent comes first. I think thinking it does is why so many people give up because "oh well. I'm not talented at that. I'm not a natural at it."

 

 

 

 

Isn't that something that has come up often in the discussions we've had about how math is taught in the U.S. vs. how it's taught in Asia? In the U.S. we tend to assume we need talent to excel in math, but in Asia the assumption is that hard work leads to excellence in math.

 

That's sort of veering off the main point here, but perceptions surrounding talent fascinate me.

[justamouse]

Forgot to add, The St. Catherine of Sienna Institute does a workshop called Called and Gifted, about discerning charisms in our lives. I'm betting there are some awesome career coaches out there for people who are more secular. I know Penelope Trunk is one and she is supposed to be highly gifted as to helping people find what they are supposed to be doing.

[justamouse]

Isn't that something that has come up often in the discussions we've had about how math is taught in the U.S. vs. how it's taught in Asia? In the U.S. we tend to assume we need talent to excel in math, but in Asia the assumption is that hard work leads to excellence in math.

 

That's sort of veering off the main point here, but perceptions surrounding talent fascinate me.

 

 

 

There is more perseverance taught in the Asian teaching of Math. Frankly, I think that's lacking in all of US teaching, no matter the subject.

[Reya]

Plus, what is a living? Does every job need to make at least $50k? Or could a family or friends live together and each do what they love to combine and make a living for all of them? It'd be a lot easier in a country with universal health coverage and without gazillions of dollars in student loan debt, that's for sure!

 

 

So, other people should pay for what you want to do because you really care about it? Responsible people should bear the weight of those who reject responsibility for "passion"? I should have worse medical coverage because John Smith over there should be free to pursue his dreams without having to worry about any of that messy insurance stuff?

 

Sorry. Not buying into that here. How a person decides to run their finances within their own family is fine, but when you're asking others to pay for you because you just don't LOVE a job that makes enough money to be self-sufficient....NO.

[Donna]

I am teaching my kids to pursue what they love but also providing them a full education so they have options and exposure to many different things. I don't know if their interests will be the same at 10yo as they are at 20 or 30 or 50....people grow and change. Right now all my kids have passions that require a lot of hard work, hours of practice, and sacrifices...they do those things because they love them. Maybe what they love now will develop into a career...maybe what they love will change...who knows? Right now each of them makes their own money and they are becoming fairly creative about using their skills. They are learning how to think outside the box and to be responsible.

 

Life is too short to spend it doing something you do not at least enjoy but I do not believe in expecting others, outside your own family or others who chose to do so voluntarily (I am thinking grants, fellowships, donations, or scholarships), to support you so you can pursue your passions. If my kids aren't able to find a way to turn their passions into something profitable enough to live on, I expect them to come up with a back up plan. At the very least, they will all have a skill they can teach to people to make themselves money.

 

I love my job...would I chose to do it even if I didn't need the money? After I finished traveling the world, when I felt I needed to have a home again, I think I would continue my job on some level....even if just a day or so a week. Would I do my job for no pay...I have put in time where I haven't gotten paid but now that I have kids and need to support them plus have all my time wrapped up in them, I don't do that as often.

[lailasmum]

I think that kids should be encourage to follow their talent if they really do have the talent and have the personality type to put in the hard work. I do know plenty of people who make a good living in creative areas but you do need the talent and to want to work really hard. I also see a lot of people who really want to be good at something and work hard but just don't have the basic talent to do anything that makes them money. That seems really common in creative areas. It's also sad because they could have put the effort into areas that will get them a more comfortable lifestyle and appreciate the thing they love as a hobby rather than actively do it as a living.

 

I think everyone should have a basic education that allows them to get a job while they are working up to making their passion their career. I have a friend whose dd wants to be a writer and they have basically focused only on that. She is 16 now and they have decided she won't be taking any exams and that really worries me, they've shut down her options so early. It really means that if she doesn't earn money in her writing career straight off she has nowhere to go since pretty much even the most basic jobs expect maths and English qualifications. She could take them later but it seems a shame not to make use of the time she has now while she is supported by her parents.

 

I am an ambitous person and want to work in an area I love once my kids have grown up I would be really sad if I couldn't. My DH on the other hand works in a sought after creative area but it came to him easily and he really has no ambition.

 

I do think that a lot of people who want to work in creative areas are better off not doing it as their degree. It's often better off learnt privately or via an apprenticeship type thing whilst getting life experience or a degree that helps you understand the world better. I did a photography degree and it was a waste of time really.

[Hannah]

That said, if you have employment in your passion but have a lousy employment environment, the passion doesn't look so good anymore.

 

I really enjoyed my job until the company went through restructuring two years ago. Now, not so much. I'm still good a it. I still work hard. I still have a dedicated team and good results, but I'm just doing it more for the money now than the inherent satisfaction...but the money pays for 12yo dd to pursue her horseriding passion and other nice-to-haves, so there's still the 'higher purpose'.

 

I would welcome a discussion on how to practically apply the ideal of living our passions, and especially teaching children to do that. My perspective is slightly different than that of most here; our family lives in a second-world country where half of the population is unemployed. There is no such thing as a safe career choice, unless you join a political party and have plenty of good connections. If there are no safe choices, pursuing something that lights your fire is worthwhile since you are more likely to succeed doing something you are interested in.

 

We've been talking recently about how to teach our children to be entreprerneurial in economies like ours. Creating an income for yourself is the way to go - and if you can do that by following your passion, even better. Dh and I both have to learn how to do this as well. Since we are both employed in professional positions, we are not good role models in this regard.

[lailasmum]

I think running a small business as a teen could be a good idea just for the experience. I plan to encourage my dd to do this when she is a bit older. She is quite creative so it will most likely be something craft related. Many people I know are combining part time jobs of different sorts to make up a living wage so getting experience of being self employed could be really useful. We've also planned to teaching then the job my husband does and I used to do as they could go into casual backstage/lighting/sound work fairly easily with our contacts and they could do it in most larger towns and cities. It's something initially I did casually while at university.

[texasmama]

The converse is also not always true. Many people aren't passionate about their more natural talents. And making a career out of them just makes it a chore.

This reminds me of a time in my life at which I had spent several years as a therapist in the foster care system and was burned out to a crisp. I had developed a particular skill set with this population. I was good at working with them, the foster parents and the biological parents. I was good at working with the other people in the system. I had wandered into a niche in my field that did make my career a chore. I told myself that just because I am good at something doesn't mean I have to continue to do it. I had a baby (my now 12 yo), left the job and when I did return to some part-time work in my field, it was not in the area of foster care.