On the brink of insanity....kidding...sort of. Help!

[ChristusG]

I think I'm about to lose my mind. I need something.....schedules....advice...creative ideas...anything!!

 

Between the three of my little girls, they are about to send me to the funny farm.

 

The 8 year old still throws tantrums. I'm talking falling on the floor, hollaring at the top of her lungs type of tantrums. Is this normal at 8???? I thought she'd be past this! And she is just plain mean to her 5 year old sister most of the time. She's selfish, always worried about whether she's being treated fairly, always worried that the 5 year old is going to get something that she doesn't, always worried she's getting the short end of the stick in some way. She's extremely jealous....no idea why. We've always stressed being the complete opposite of jealous to our children. But this child is insanely jealous.

 

The 5 year old poops in her underwear about 85% of the time. I'm so tired of cleaning a 5 year old poopy booty. Yes, we've seen the doctor and there's no medical issues. We've tried rewards, punishments, bribes, talking, begging, and everything else under the sun. Also.....she's usually my kind one but has been awfully whiny lately.Over the top whiny. And quite contrary at times, in her own little 5 year old way.

 

The two of them together....they argue. They used to just argue sporadically. Now they argue CONSTANTLY. It it literally all day long, constant bickering about every single little thing. And I can't tell who is at fault! They run to me and expect me to know who to punish. I haven't a clue! My 8 year old is probably usually at fault, however, my 5 year old knows how to push her buttons! This bickering in and of itself is just about enough to push a sane person over the edge. They fight while playing. They fight while cleaning the playroom every time. They fight about who does what. Throw in the pooping 5 year old and the tantruming 8 year old and we've got a barrell of fun over here.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the 1 year old yet.

 

She is the 1 year old from another planet. A cage full of hyenas would be easier to handle than her. If the National Weather Service is taking suggestions for new names for tropical storms and hurricanes next year, then they should definitely consider using my daughter's name! She can destroy a house in ten seconds flat. I have more gates, baby proofing items, and cabinet locks for her than I used for both other kids combined.

 

And I'm homeschooling.....just barely. We've been doing "school lite" for months now.

 

Throw in all of our activities and I'm done for. Actually, the activities themselves I don't mind. It's the stress of getting everyone out of the house. Meltdowns ensue from every kid when we are trying to get out the door. We have American Heritage Girls every Monday (8 and 5 year old), art every Tuesday (8 year old), ballet every Wednesday (5 year old), AWANA on Wednesday nights (8 and 5 year old), and winter soccer will be starting soon for the 8 year old (which will be on Saturdays). Plus, we're beginning an American Girl book club, but that only meets once a month. Then, of course, we have church on Sundays. Not to mention, other activies in life such as birthday parties, family dinners, special events, dates for DH and I, etc.

 

And I also have my 16 year old nephew who lives with us! He's doing the virtual school so he's here every day. He's no trouble except when he takes breaks from school and comes out to play with the girls.....balls start flying around the living room, light saber battles ensue, things are knocked off the shelves, the kids start running, and the noise level of the house goes up about ten notches. They are just having a good time, but this is not good for an already stressed out mama.

 

And bedtime....oh, bedtime. This has been an issue for YEARS. My 8 and 5 year old cry every. single. night. when it is time for bed. Why???? Cause they don't want to go to bed! They cry, they fall on the ground, they whine, they delay, they delay more, they get out of bed, they call for us....it is NEVER ENDING. I have no idea why they do this. They get in trouble every time. It's like they don't care. And we've tried reward systems, punishements, bribes, the works. Everything works for about three of four days and then it is back to the same old stuff. I just NEED my "me time" at night without the kids. DH puts them to bed, but our house is small so I hear everything, they call for me, they come out of the room to me.

 

Lately my heart has been beating fast and I've been so incredibly stressed by the end of each day. I've not been a fun mommy and that's just not me. I've never been this stressed. I'm always the fun one. And DH just doesn't seem to get it. So I'm asking.....what works for you in this stage of life? The stage of tantruming, fighting siblings and destructive babies? What are your creative secrets? Do you have a good schedule? I'm wondering if I'll be more or less stressed with trying to stick to a schedule. Our days are varied due to activities so I'm not sure how well a schedule would work. I'm wondering if we should drop activities? I'm very selective about our activities and each of the ones we are doing is something I've been awaiting a space to get the kids in. I wonder if I should keep my 8 and 5 year old separated for most of the day? I'm wondering if I should let my 13 month old watch TV to occupy her at times? I didn't let my older ones watch TV till they were over two years old. Will her brain rot from the inside out? I just know that it will.....or will it save my sanity if she will watch a baby educational video for 30 minutes?

 

I just know that something has *got* to change before I drop a few kids off at the local elementary school one morning. I love them, I really do.....but they really know how to push Mommy's buttons here lately. And they totally know I'd never drop them off at the elementary school....but I have threatened it.

[Amy in NH]

I think I'm about to lose my mind. I need something.....schedules....advice...creative ideas...anything!!

 

Between the three of my little girls, they are about to send me to the funny farm.

 

The 8 year old still throws tantrums. I'm talking falling on the floor, hollaring at the top of her lungs type of tantrums. Is this normal at 8???? I thought she'd be past this! And she is just plain mean to her 5 year old sister most of the time. She's selfish, always worried about whether she's being treated fairly, always worried that the 5 year old is going to get something that she doesn't, always worried she's getting the short end of the stick in some way. She's extremely jealous....no idea why. We've always stressed being the complete opposite of jealous to our children. But this child is insanely jealous.

 

She is tantruming because she gets what she wants from doing it. Attention? Her way? Something for sure. Drag her into her bedroom and close the door, tell her she can come out when she's finished.

 

Watch 1,2,3 Magic. He advocates locking the bedroom door from the outside until they stop the tantrum.

 

The 5 year old poops in her underwear about 85% of the time. I'm so tired of cleaning a 5 year old poopy booty. Yes, we've seen the doctor and there's no medical issues. We've tried rewards, punishments, bribes, talking, begging, and everything else under the sun. Also.....she's usually my kind one but has been awfully whiny lately.Over the top whiny. And quite contrary at times, in her own little 5 year old way.

 

You need to make clean-up so unpleasant that she won't want to do it again. Get a handheld shower spray if you don't already have one. She strips in the shower and gets an ice cold spray to clean her bottom. It shouldn't happen very often after a couple of those clean-ups.

 

The two of them together....they argue. They used to just argue sporadically. Now they argue CONSTANTLY. It it literally all day long, constant bickering about every single little thing. And I can't tell who is at fault! They run to me and expect me to know who to punish. I haven't a clue! My 8 year old is probably usually at fault, however, my 5 year old knows how to push her buttons! This bickering in and of itself is just about enough to push a sane person over the edge. They fight while playing. They fight while cleaning the playroom every time. They fight about who does what. Throw in the pooping 5 year old and the tantruming 8 year old and we've got a barrell of fun over here.

 

Both get punished. They can sit on their beds until they can behave toward each other.

 

You probably also need to provide some Mom-mediated sessions on how they should communicate with each other.

 

 

And I haven't even mentioned the 1 year old yet.

 

She is the 1 year old from another planet. A cage full of hyenas would be easier to handle than her. If the National Weather Service is taking suggestions for new names for tropical storms and hurricanes next year, then they should definitely consider using my daughter's name! She can destroy a house in ten seconds flat. I have more gates, baby proofing items, and cabinet locks for her than I used for both other kids combined.

 

She's just following the tone of the rest of you.

 

And I'm homeschooling.....just barely. We've been doing "school lite" for months now.

 

Throw in all of our activities and I'm done for. Actually, the activities themselves I don't mind. It's the stress of getting everyone out of the house. Meltdowns ensue from every kid when we are trying to get out the door. We have American Heritage Girls every Monday (8 and 5 year old), art every Tuesday (8 year old), ballet every Wednesday (5 year old), AWANA on Wednesday nights (8 and 5 year old), and winter soccer will be starting soon for the 8 year old (which will be on Saturdays). Plus, we're beginning an American Girl book club, but that only meets once a month. Then, of course, we have church on Sundays. Not to mention, other activies in life such as birthday parties, family dinners, special events, dates for DH and I, etc.

 

That's too many activities. You need a day or two at home each week. Pick your favorites and cut out the rest.

 

And I also have my 16 year old nephew who lives with us! He's doing the virtual school so he's here every day. He's no trouble except when he takes breaks from school and comes out to play with the girls.....balls start flying around the living room, light saber battles ensue, things are knocked off the shelves, the kids start running, and the noise level of the house goes up about ten notches. They are just having a good time, but this is not good for an already stressed out mama.

 

That type of play immediately gets sent outside. Doesn't matter the weather - that's what raincoats/snowpants/whatever are for.

 

And bedtime....oh, bedtime. This has been an issue for YEARS. My 8 and 5 year old cry every. single. night. when it is time for bed. Why???? Cause they don't want to go to bed! They cry, they fall on the ground, they whine, they delay, they delay more, they get out of bed, they call for us....it is NEVER ENDING. I have no idea why they do this. They get in trouble every time. It's like they don't care. And we've tried reward systems, punishements, bribes, the works. Everything works for about three of four days and then it is back to the same old stuff. I just NEED my "me time" at night without the kids. DH puts them to bed, but our house is small so I hear everything, they call for me, they come out of the room to me.

 

Set a solid bedtime, lay down the rule: for every minute you are up past bedtime tonight, you go to bed that many minutes early tomorrow. Don't say a single word, just put them to bed on time. Be consistent. Watch 123 Magic.

 

Lately my heart has been beating fast and I've been so incredibly stressed by the end of each day. I've not been a fun mommy and that's just not me. I've never been this stressed. I'm always the fun one. And DH just doesn't seem to get it. So I'm asking.....what works for you in this stage of life? The stage of tantruming, fighting siblings and destructive babies? What are your creative secrets? Do you have a good schedule? I'm wondering if I'll be more or less stressed with trying to stick to a schedule. Our days are varied due to activities so I'm not sure how well a schedule would work. I'm wondering if we should drop activities? I'm very selective about our activities and each of the ones we are doing is something I've been awaiting a space to get the kids in. I wonder if I should keep my 8 and 5 year old separated for most of the day? I'm wondering if I should let my 13 month old watch TV to occupy her at times? I didn't let my older ones watch TV till they were over two years old. Will her brain rot from the inside out? I just know that it will.....or will it save my sanity if she will watch a baby educational video for 30 minutes?

 

A couple of educational videos won't hurt your 13 month old while you are trying to get school done. Leap Frog Letter Factory is a good choice.

 

I just know that something has *got* to change before I drop a few kids off at the local elementary school one morning. I love them, I really do.....but they really know how to push Mommy's buttons here lately. And they totally know I'd never drop them off at the elementary school....but I have threatened it.

 

Set a few solid rules, make sure everyone knows what they are (family meeting time), and be drama-free & 100% consistent in following through on the Natural and Logical Consequences.

 

One last thing: "Fair" doesn't mean everyone gets the same. It means people get what they need when they need it.

[AK_Mom4]

:grouphug:

The only one I ever managed to deal with was the sibling fighting issue. For that one, siblings who fight and argue and squabble lost the privledge of playing together. Absolute ban on being even in the same room except for meals. Since they were each other's main playmates, this finally sunk in with them.

 

For the rest... I dunno. My 5yo pooper had a medical condition causing constipation and she just couldn't feel it. A course of Miralax and regularly scheduled bathroom visits (whether she had to go or not) helped set her straight.

 

But if you are finding all the activities to be an onerous burden, give yourself permission to Just Not Go. Missing a week worth of activities for your mental health is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Mrs Mungo]

The 8 year old still throws tantrums. I'm talking falling on the floor, hollaring at the top of her lungs type of tantrums. Is this normal at 8???? I thought she'd be past this!

 

Have you watched SuperNanny? Naughty step. Every. Single. Time. Yes, even in a store.

 

And she is just plain mean to her 5 year old sister most of the time. She's selfish, always worried about whether she's being treated fairly, always worried that the 5 year old is going to get something that she doesn't, always worried she's getting the short end of the stick in some way. She's extremely jealous....no idea why. We've always stressed being the complete opposite of jealous to our children. But this child is insanely jealous.

 

Sounds like they need some micromanaging when together.

 

The 5 year old poops in her underwear about 85% of the time. I'm so tired of cleaning a 5 year old poopy booty. Yes, we've seen the doctor and there's no medical issues. We've tried rewards, punishments, bribes, talking, begging, and everything else under the sun. Also.....she's usually my kind one but has been awfully whiny lately.Over the top whiny. And quite contrary at times, in her own little 5 year old way.

 

A five year old can clean out their own underwear, put their own laundry in the wash and wash their own booty. No medical problems? Then, it is likely laziness or attention getting. Making her clean up the mess would solve either problem.

 

The two of them together....they argue. They used to just argue sporadically. Now they argue CONSTANTLY. It it literally all day long, constant bickering about every single little thing. And I can't tell who is at fault! They run to me and expect me to know who to punish. I haven't a clue! My 8 year old is probably usually at fault, however, my 5 year old knows how to push her buttons! This bickering in and of itself is just about enough to push a sane person over the edge. They fight while playing. They fight while cleaning the playroom every time. They fight about who does what. Throw in the pooping 5 year old and the tantruming 8 year old and we've got a barrell of fun over here.

 

Give them separate jobs. One cleans the playroom while the other does chores with you. Trade off which girl does which. Either separate them or be actively managing them.

 

She is the 1 year old from another planet. A cage full of hyenas would be easier to handle than her. If the National Weather Service is taking suggestions for new names for tropical storms and hurricanes next year, then they should definitely consider using my daughter's name! She can destroy a house in ten seconds flat. I have more gates, baby proofing items, and cabinet locks for her than I used for both other kids combined.

 

Have you thought about a play-yard with age appropriate activities?

 

Throw in all of our activities and I'm done for. Actually, the activities themselves I don't mind. It's the stress of getting everyone out of the house. Meltdowns ensue from every kid when we are trying to get out the door.

 

Ten you don't go. It will be hard going at first, but stick to it. Tantrum=staying home.

 

We have American Heritage Girls every Monday (8 and 5 year old), art every Tuesday (8 year old), ballet every Wednesday (5 year old), AWANA on Wednesday nights (8 and 5 year old), and winter soccer will be starting soon for the 8 year old (which will be on Saturdays). Plus, we're beginning an American Girl book club, but that only meets once a month. Then, of course, we have church on Sundays. Not to mention, other activies in life such as birthday parties, family dinners, special events, dates for DH and I, etc.

 

When my girls were those ages we did AHG once a week, they had dance class back-to-back once a week and we did a homeschool PE class once a week. That is it. They may be tired.

 

And I also have my 16 year old nephew who lives with us! He's doing the virtual school so he's here every day. He's no trouble except when he takes breaks from school and comes out to play with the girls.....balls start flying around the living room, light saber battles ensue, things are knocked off the shelves, the kids start running, and the noise level of the house goes up about ten notches. They are just having a good time, but this is not good for an already stressed out mama.

 

Outdoor playtime every day at the same time. All rough play goes outside. Implement an afternoon quiet time where they read, listen to audio books, draw, take a nap or do something else quiet in separate rooms.

 

And bedtime....oh, bedtime. This has been an issue for YEARS. My 8 and 5 year old cry every. single. night. when it is time for bed. Why???? Cause they don't want to go to bed! They cry, they fall on the ground, they whine, they delay, they delay more, they get out of bed, they call for us....it is NEVER ENDING. I have no idea why they do this. They get in trouble every time. It's like they don't care. And we've tried reward systems, punishements, bribes, the works. Everything works for about three of four days and then it is back to the same old stuff. I just NEED my "me time" at night without the kids. DH puts them to bed, but our house is small so I hear everything, they call for me, they come out of the room to me.

 

1. Do you have a strict routine? It takes about an hour for kids to wind down. If you want them in bed by 8, then the routine should start about 7. Our routine looked like this (and we had a laminated list we checked off): turn all the lights down (this helps prepare the mind for sleep), take baths, put on PJs, brush teeth, go potty, snuggle up together with only a reading light on, read books (each girl picks one and/or you read from a chapter book), say prayers, tuck everyone in, lights out, stay in bed (that was actually on our list). If they share a room, then have the elder one lay on your bed to read to herself for 20 minutes while the younger goes to sleep,

 

2. Again, have you watched Super Nanny? Just take them back to bed without engaging them. Every time you engage them you are giving them attention.

[Mrs Mungo]

One other thing? Make sure you feed them protein (and fat!) every two to three hours. It helps keep their blood sugar stable.

 

(Eta): when my kids were little their eating schedule looked something like this:

7:30 breakfast: breakfast burritos with eggs, sausage and cheese or eggs in a basket (toad in the hole? Same thing) or oatmeal with nuts and fruit, fried potatoes and scrambled eggs with veggies in them (onion, peppers, etc)

 

10 am snack-ants on a log, apples and cheese, hummus and cucumbers, almond butter and carrots, smoothies with cottage cheese-in other words-some sort of fruit/veggie with some sort of protein

 

12:30 pm lunch: rice, bean and cheese burritos or egg salad sandwiches or burgers with veggies, etc

 

3 pm snack: same as above

 

6 pm dinner: again with the protein element

 

7:30 snack: oatmeal or other slow-digesting food

 

The food thing really, really impacted (and still impacts) the behavior of my kids.

 

Again, outdoor play every day will help them be tired at night. Oh!!! And get them up early if you want them to go to bed at a decent hour. Mine went to bed and 8 and got up at 7 at those ages.

[newlifemom]

I only had one problem child, but I had some of those situations. When things were at their worst, [this was when I had been told my son would not be able to learn, and the prelim dx was ODD] I remember sitting on the couch crying early one morning. I was begging God for help. I'm not going to say I heard an audible voice, but I got the distinct impression that I needed to pull the kids from most of their activities, and I needed to pull out as well. The next couple of years, we did mimimal activities and stayed home as a family. During this time ds met with a wonderful OT and we grew closer as a family. Now, 5 yrs later, I won't say we are a perfect family, but we are happy and for the most part peaceful. Take what you want or don't. I just wanted to share my journey, if only so you will know that you are not alone. :grouphug:

[Faithr]

It sounds like you need to take back control. Your kids may need a firm understanding of who is running the ship here. You are but you sound like you are too close and too overwhelmed to feel your own authority. So take a deep breath and chant to yourself: I am the captain of this ship!

 

I personally think that punishments should few and far between especially in a house where mom feels alienated from her own children. I think if you can get back to feeling a deep love and appreciation of your kids, you'll be a calmer more in charge mom. Have you heard of Biblical Parenting? It is based on teaching family members to treat each other with honor. I am sorry. It is 3:40 a.m. Here and my brain is fuzzy but if you are interested, I can give you more info in the a.m. The organization sends out very helpful positive emails that are inspiring. They have published a couple of books in the how to mode. You might even want to attend a seminar or do phone consulting. I love their gentle, common sense, calm and Christ centered approach.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I only have two but this sounds very familiar.

 

I would start with bedtime. Use the super nanny method; do your bedtime routine. The first time they get up, say i love you, it's time for bed, and put them back. The second time they get up just say that it's time for bed and put them back. The third time and every time after, you just put them back with no eye contact or talking.

 

Is the pooping new or has she never toilet trained with it? My ds pooped in his diaper in his sleep a few days recently. He did not seem constipated, and i knew it was not behavioral (he thinks poop is gross). It turns out that he was constipated.

 

I would probably see a pediatric gastroenterologist to be on the safe side. Peds do not specialize and I've had peds miss some pretty big things (like constipation).

 

I dont think 8 year olds are supposed to throw knock down drag out tantrums, but mine still does. The most common motivator is attention. Have you ever tracked the behavior?

 

Just tracking alone gave me huge insight into ds's behaviors. I learned that what i thought was a consequence (not punishment or anything, but referring to what happens immediately following a behavior) was not.

 

Our sequence went like this; antecedent- dd walks by ds. Behavior- ds hits dd. Consequence- dd yells.

 

It did not matter how many times i put ds in his room or yelled at him. He was getting dd's attention and was good at it. To change the behavior, i had to alter the antecedent or consequence. Dd was much younger so i could not change her reaction to him, so i have to get between his opportunities to hit her and change the antecedent.

 

All of this behavior rambling just to say that you need to look closer and track the tantrums. Track them for a week without changing anything.

 

I would probably drop the activities. We have a few activities. Ds has drums and we only continue because its more theraputic than anything else for him.

 

Dd has book club at the library, but that's on hold until January.

 

Ds also has book club. He can be a bit of a pain to get out of the house, but i just dont engage. He is well behaved at book club, he answers questions, and pays attention.

 

Both kids have occupational and speech therapies.

 

When things get out of control, i drop it all. We focus on school work, chores, and living together.

 

I saw another poster give detailed food info and i have to agree a lot with it. I figured out recently that ds needs some protein about every 2 hours. One of our biggest problems here is food. He is picky and was screaming multiple times daily that he is f'ing starving and we never have f'ing food and that i didnt love him because i was letting him f'ing starve to f'ing death.

 

I now stay ahead of food. His breakfast choices are; eat, do not eat. His snack choices are open but i force a protein before he says he's hungry. Lunch is a choice between 2 things. Dinner is also eat or don't.

 

A schedule will work for you even with outside activities. Do not put times on most things, at least not in the beginning. Work on getting little routines going. I have morning and evening mastered with ds.

 

When he wakes up (doesnt matter if at 5am or 1pm) he throws out his diaper, takes his asthma meds, eats breakfast, brushes teeth, gets dressed, makes his bed, and puts away dishes. This is the same every single day of the week.

 

After dishes is school work (lite at the moment). First up is reciting his young marines memory work. Takes two minutes. Then math. I pull it out, he has a tantrum, gets over it and we get it done (i come here and vent about his need for the tantrum! Lol). Then we watch our phonics lessons. Then i teach him the new cursive letter and he does the book work alone. (I do not correct the book work or make him do more. We take it to OT weekly to work on trouble spots.) After handwriting he watches an episode of signing time. Then he reads to me for a minute or two.

 

Now he is mostly free until our dinner and evening routine starts.

 

This will be changing because i have more school plans and his afternoons are too free for his behavior.

 

On Thursdays, therapy day, we do not do any official school work. In OT, his trouble spots are worked on and in speech, i let her know what part of the phonics lessons he had trouble with.

 

This got really, really long! Sorry. If you want more details on anything, just let me know. It is possible to change things, but it takes lots of patience, and hard work on your part. And of course lots of venting to the wonderful hive. :)

 

[Faithr]

Okay, I finally fell back to sleep and then got up at a regular time (middle of the night insomnia!) but here is a link to the National Center for Biblical Parenting. http://www.biblicalparenting.org/helpnow-resources.asp

[Kalypso]

You've already gotten some good advice, so I just wanted to give you a :grouphug:

 

 

I hope some of the suggestions help.

[clarkacademy]

I say this with kindness but usually after a few days when the routines or whatever go south the parent has helped by slacking off. I said usually not always so no one needs to get all huffy with me. First off that is wayyyy too many activities to be out of the house. That right there is not helping. Activities like that are thrown into the mix after a firm routine is established in my opinion. A routine does not take a few days it takes a while. You can't just give up after a few days because they are not cooperating you have to follow through every single time.

 

Every now and then my boys will put up a fight and they have had a set bedtime since they were little. Oh well, tough they go to bed. I would cut all outside stuff for a while months most likely and deal with my kids. I would make that the focus of everyday. Set the rules follow through. It is hard but it pays off

[2squared]

When we are get to this point, I know I need to regroup. Change starts with me, and change is not punitive. Adding punishments on top of this craziness causes the craziness to spiral, it doesn't bring positive change.

 

So - Stop, drop, and roll. First, stop school for the day. Get your housework under control so you can breathe in your space. Enlist your kids' help. Next, find something fun to do with them. Take a walk, bake cookes, and watch a movie. Have fun and enjoy each other - all of you, together. If you need, do this for a couple days. Then take a deep breath and move forward in small steps. Talk with each of them individually and as a team. My kids know we are a team, and I treat them as such. After years of training they seem to get the team aspect.

 

Decide how to handle your 5yo's underwear issues, and talk with her about it. The solution shouldn't be punitive, and you probably aren't going to solve the problem in one magical conversation, but you can come up with a solution for dealing with the situation as it is today. Perhaps when she poops in her underwear she has to stop what she is doing, dump her underwear in the toilet, and take a bath every single time. She should be old enough to do something like that on her own.

 

Then evalute the issue with getting out of the door. Are you giving everyone enough time to get ready? I set the oven timer 15 minutes before we need to leave, and the kids all know they stop what they are doing and get ready when the buzzer rings. But...they know getting ready means changing their clothes, using the restroom, putting on their shoes, grabbing a coat, and getting in the van. Do your kids have a routine? Do they know what to expect when it's time to go? Do they pack their bags in the morning so they are ready for afternoon activities? Are their shoes by the door? Are their coats hung up? Do you have a diaper bag stocked in the van? What other routines would make getting out the door easier?

 

As for the destructive 1yo, the only guidance I can give you is supervision and time. :bored: I have a destructive 2yo, and I either have to supervise him or accept the consequences. With 4 other kids, sometimes I have to accept the consequences. I just breathe deeply and remind myself that he won't be 2yo forever.

 

ETA: Your outside activities do sound like a lot. I would significantly reduce those until the other issues are better. More time together usually helps us resolve our issues.

[Desert Rat]

You've gotten some wonderful advice. Most of it is what I would have said.

 

I agree with cutting down on activities. It looks to me like it's too much. Tantrums= not going. Man, this one is tough! Especially for people like me who have friends at these activities and, at times, it was my only "grown up time"! But, do it.

 

When my boys fought constantly, I either tomato staked the worst offender with me, or made them sit together, sometimes holding hands. Usually, if I got them redirected it worked though.

 

If you don't have a "look" develop one. You know that mom is pi$$ed off look? That saves me a lot of trouble.

 

And I wanted to stress routines. Everyone gets up at the same time (except the baby). Wake kids up who are sleeping. Everyone eats at the same time, snacks at the same time. At those ages (I only have 2 though), we had school time, structured play times (playdough, painting, etc.), and free time throughout the day. Meals were at the same time every day. We didn't stay out late. We ate dinner BEFORE activities. I hate trying to get everyone fed at 7:30pm. Sometimes this meant that we ate at 4:30 and dh heated his up when he got home.

 

Hang in there. It will get better.

[Parrothead]

I think I'm about to lose my mind. I need something.....schedules....advice...creative ideas...anything!!

 

Between the three of my little girls, they are about to send me to the funny farm.

 

The 8 year old still throws tantrums. I'm talking falling on the floor, hollaring at the top of her lungs type of tantrums. Is this normal at 8???? I thought she'd be past this! And she is just plain mean to her 5 year old sister most of the time. She's selfish, always worried about whether she's being treated fairly, always worried that the 5 year old is going to get something that she doesn't, always worried she's getting the short end of the stick in some way. She's extremely jealous....no idea why. We've always stressed being the complete opposite of jealous to our children. But this child is insanely jealous.

Do you engage when she is in tantrum mode? Don't engage. Train everyone else to get up and leave the room in which she is throwing her tantrum. Get up and go have fun elsewhere.

 

I don't know what to tell you about the fair thing. My brother and I were the same way. It may have helped that we both were like that and mom left it up to us to figure out. We eventually made sure things were divided equally.

 

The 5 year old poops in her underwear about 85% of the time. I'm so tired of cleaning a 5 year old poopy booty. Yes, we've seen the doctor and there's no medical issues. We've tried rewards, punishments, bribes, talking, begging, and everything else under the sun. Also.....she's usually my kind one but has been awfully whiny lately.Over the top whiny. And quite contrary at times, in her own little 5 year old way.

Have you tried waking her into the bathroom and telling her to deal with it? Don't leave her so she doesn't make a mess, but don't help her except by giving verbal direction.

 

The two of them together....they argue. They used to just argue sporadically. Now they argue CONSTANTLY. It it literally all day long, constant bickering about every single little thing. And I can't tell who is at fault! They run to me and expect me to know who to punish. I haven't a clue! My 8 year old is probably usually at fault, however, my 5 year old knows how to push her buttons! This bickering in and of itself is just about enough to push a sane person over the edge. They fight while playing. They fight while cleaning the playroom every time. They fight about who does what. Throw in the pooping 5 year old and the tantruming 8 year old and we've got a barrell of fun over here.

Separate them? Send them to their individual rooms. Sounds like they may spend a lot of time there though. Maybe give them cooperative projects so they have to learn to get along.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the 1 year old yet.

 

She is the 1 year old from another planet. A cage full of hyenas would be easier to handle than her. If the National Weather Service is taking suggestions for new names for tropical storms and hurricanes next year, then they should definitely consider using my daughter's name! She can destroy a house in ten seconds flat. I have more gates, baby proofing items, and cabinet locks for her than I used for both other kids combined.

Can you make a safe room for her? Try to keep her contained in one area most of the day.

 

And I'm homeschooling.....just barely. We've been doing "school lite" for months now.

I'd stop that for a while and work on discipline issues. Maybe even a type of boot camp for young girls.

 

Throw in all of our activities and I'm done for. Actually, the activities themselves I don't mind. It's the stress of getting everyone out of the house. Meltdowns ensue from every kid when we are trying to get out the door. We have American Heritage Girls every Monday (8 and 5 year old), art every Tuesday (8 year old), ballet every Wednesday (5 year old), AWANA on Wednesday nights (8 and 5 year old), and winter soccer will be starting soon for the 8 year old (which will be on Saturdays). Plus, we're beginning an American Girl book club, but that only meets once a month. Then, of course, we have church on Sundays. Not to mention, other activies in life such as birthday parties, family dinners, special events, dates for DH and I, etc.

This must stop. Outside activities are for kids who don't throw tantrums and who have their bowles under control (if it is simply a stubbornness issue.). Mom shouldn't be driven nuts carting kids all over town when they are not behaving.

 

And I also have my 16 year old nephew who lives with us! He's doing the virtual school so he's here every day. He's no trouble except when he takes breaks from school and comes out to play with the girls.....balls start flying around the living room, light saber battles ensue, things are knocked off the shelves, the kids start running, and the noise level of the house goes up about ten notches. They are just having a good time, but this is not good for an already stressed out mama.

Sorry, balls need to be outlawed inside the house. I think your nephew needs to be allowed out of where ever he is studying. No one needs to be stuck all day alone. But he needs rules about what is and is not allowed inside during the day. He also needs rules about school hours.

 

And bedtime....oh, bedtime. This has been an issue for YEARS. My 8 and 5 year old cry every. single. night. when it is time for bed. Why???? Cause they don't want to go to bed! They cry, they fall on the ground, they whine, they delay, they delay more, they get out of bed, they call for us....it is NEVER ENDING. I have no idea why they do this. They get in trouble every time. It's like they don't care. And we've tried reward systems, punishements, bribes, the works. Everything works for about three of four days and then it is back to the same old stuff. I just NEED my "me time" at night without the kids. DH puts them to bed, but our house is small so I hear everything, they call for me, they come out of the room to me.

Don't engage. Just put them in bed and walk away.

 

Lately my heart has been beating fast and I've been so incredibly stressed by the end of each day. I've not been a fun mommy and that's just not me. I've never been this stressed. I'm always the fun one.

You can't be the fun one. You need to be the mom. Fun can't happen unless chores and school are done and there is peace within the household. it will take a while to retrain everyone - including yourself, but it needs to be done or you will have continued chaos.

 

And DH just doesn't seem to get it. So I'm asking.....what works for you in this stage of life? The stage of tantruming, fighting siblings and destructive babies? What are your creative secrets? Do you have a good schedule? I'm wondering if I'll be more or less stressed with trying to stick to a schedule. Our days are varied due to activities so I'm not sure how well a schedule would work. I'm wondering if we should drop activities? I'm very selective about our activities and each of the ones we are doing is something I've been awaiting a space to get the kids in. I wonder if I should keep my 8 and 5 year old separated for most of the day? I'm wondering if I should let my 13 month old watch TV to occupy her at times? I didn't let my older ones watch TV till they were over two years old. Will her brain rot from the inside out? I just know that it will.....or will it save my sanity if she will watch a baby educational video for 30 minutes?

We've always had a schedule. It is pretty loose now that we all know what to expect most days.

 

I just know that something has *got* to change before I drop a few kids off at the local elementary school one morning. I love them, I really do.....but they really know how to push Mommy's buttons here lately. And they totally know I'd never drop them off at the elementary school....but I have threatened it.

Good luck.

[I.Dup.]

You poor thing! You've gotten good advice. That sounds HORRIBLE. I would be so miserable. I agree with what Amy in NH shared. Stop them in their tracks. And certainly tie any privileges to good behavior, and possibly stop all outside activities until they can get their behavior under control! Hugs! You can do this! Don't worry about being fun mom at this point, your kids are out of control, you can worry about fun once they behave decently.

[Mrs Mungo]

When we are get to this point, I know I need to regroup. Change starts with me, and change is not punitive. Adding punishments on top of this craziness causes the craziness to spiral, it doesn't bring positive change.

 

I don't think of anything that I suggested as punitive. They are natural or logical consequences. A kid throwing a tantrum is put in a naughty spot until they regain control of themselves. Logical consequence, no punishment involved. A 5 year old with toileting issues (assuming she is regularly reminded to go to the bathroom, even walked there) cleans themselves up, this is a logical consequence, but I don't see it an punitive. Kids throwing fits to get out the door means we can't go because we know have a behavior issue to deal with, this is a natural consequence. A destructive toddler needs a safe place to play.

 

I just don't see any of my suggestions as punitive.

[2squared]

I don't think of anything that I suggested as punitive. They are natural or logical consequences. A kid throwing a tantrum is put in a naughty spot until they regain control of themselves. Logical consequence, no punishment involved. A 5 year old with toileting issues (assuming she is regularly reminded to go to the bathroom, even walked there) cleans themselves up, this is a logical consequence, but I don't see it an punitive. Kids throwing fits to get out the door means we can't go because we know have a behavior issue to deal with, this is a natural consequence. A destructive toddler needs a safe place to play.

 

I just don't see any of my suggestions as punitive.

 

There is always more than one way to do things, and some of the suggestions in this thread lean toward the punitive. I didn't quote anyone in particular, and I don't even know what you wrote specifically. I just know when I am at the end of my ropes, everything I do and say tends toward the punitive. My tone of voice, my body language all scream "anger" and "punitive" to my kids, and the same parenting solution can be done punitively (which is easy to do when you are frustrated and overwhelmed) or positively. Sometimes it takes a lot to step back and come up with a positive solution.

 

A 5yo with toileting issues can easily be shamed and punished with a cold shower. The same 5yo could be taught, in a positive and loving way, to clean herself and her clothes.

 

An 8yo throwing a tantrum can be yelled at and drug to her room for a time-out or her parent can work with her to teach her how to control her body and emotions - lovingly and firmly. I've done both approaches, and the first approach doesn't work for me. I would not consider frequent tantrums to be age-appropriate for an 8yo, so I would think solving the tantrums isn't going to be a quick or easy solution.

[MomatHWTK]

Stop all outside activities, stop all school except the minimum legally required (in our state school isn't required until age 7), focus soley and completely on character and behavior. Focus your attention on correcting bad behavior and teaching good behavior with love. For strong bonds with each child, getting to know them specifically and what makes them tick. Read books, see the doctor, see a therapist, do what you need to do to get the behaviors and interactions under control. Otherwise, the cycle will just continue. :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

This thread is full of good ideas. Routine is key to getting kids to do what you need them to do. For many years my dh fought routine because he felt it stopped the free flow of life. Every time we had a bedtime routine he did something to stop it. I would definitely have a bed time routine where everyone brushes their teeth, puts on jammies and has a short read aloud and kids go to bed. Melt downs do not get sympathy. I had an 8yo that had melt downs. She did it for the attention she got from her father. She stopped when I pointed out to her father that the 8yo was having more melt downs than the 3yo and he stopped being sympathetic. When there was no more sympathy there were no more melt downs. Ending sympathy does not mean being mean, it means stop letting them have attention for bad behavior. Conversely, give them lots of attention for good behavior. Lavish attention on good behavior and starve the bad behavior.

[Spryte]

So many great ideas here! I haven't much to add, but wanted to reiterate Parrothead's idea of cooperative projects so the kiddos have to learn to get along. That was the first thing that popped into my head. Some kind of Sister Boot Camp - make it fun, put them in a position to depend on each other, help them laugh together. I don't have kids that close in age, so maybe I'm just dreaming, but it's what I kept thinking. Separating them makes sense, too, as a first measure, when things are at a crisis point, but at some point, giving them tasks that they must complete together might help. I'm thinking a Sister Scavenger Hunt, that kind of thing.

 

For the tantrums... I have a DS who is 8, and he had issues with tantrums till not too long ago. For him, there was a physical cause - a med - that we didn't recognize. He also gets very cranky when his asthma is acting up. Food is a big thing, too, like Mrs. Mungo mentioned. So we worked hard on removing all the physical triggers, then we had to tackle the behaviors he'd learned while on the med that caused issues (he had learned that tantrums got attention, and he really didn't know another way to handle his anger). We read this book together and worked through the exercises. I worked it right into school time. It helped to give DS tools to manage his feelings, and to recognize when he needed to use them. It's been maybe 18 months now, and our lives have changed dramatically for the better.

[dangermom]

I agree with stopping the outside activities for a while. They're not working for you. What I would do is get them outside, though. Take them to the park and let them run around for a couple of hours in the afternoon (or the morning!), shove them out to the backyard, etc.

 

I'd also make sure that the two older kids are separated. Don't let them be together, or as little as possible.