Help me. Stuck in never-ending loop

[TranquilMind]

Thanks for listening.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I can't hug you enough.

 

I have an ortho appmt in 3 minutes, must leave, but I HAVE BEEN THERE and I'll be back in a few.

[Thea]

Oh TM, I have no advice. I'm sorry. I don't know what you say to get through to them. ((((hugs))))

 

If I manage to figure it out, I'll let you know.

 

Teenagers can be so exhausting--I often long for my toddlers back.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

:grouphug: We struggle here too.

[justLisa]

I watched this program where they were explaining how teens brains are different.

 

Maybe they just morph in to some sort of non human being for a while. I don't know. I remember I was always the protector, the fixer, close to mom and dad and wanted to please everyone. My sister about killed my mother. She was the most awful teen I have ever witnessed. We were raised the same in every way. I am thinking it is not your fault.

:grouphug:

 

You mentioned how do you walk away. That is definitely something I have learned to do with people. It was a challenge since I grew up with someone always needing the last word.

[PollyOR]

Oh my gosh! I would hit the roof too.

 

Personally I'm not sure I could pull this off but it is something to consider. The next time a child wants a ride to an activity I would sigh and say, "I don't care," and then walk away. No ride. No extra money for _______. No special load of laundry washed just so they can have their team clothes washed, etc.

 

What goes around comes around.

[Mona100]

I remember when my teen daughter was raging (13-14 yrs old), I would just send her to her room. I don't want to hear all of that because it would escalate. Sometimes you just have to make them walk away. Don't make them the king of the household with their temper tantrums, send them away. I used to engage in the fighting but I don't anymore because it is just not worth it. They want the attention so don't give them attention. I know you want respect but I am not going to respect someone if they just keep screaming and fighting me all the time regardless of who they are, parent or not. I know that might be harsh to say but for me at least dealing with my parents and now parenting my teen I feel that way.

 

But I wouldn't wish the couple of years I had to deal with my daughter and her "moments" on my worst enemy. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

This season shall pass hopefully sooner rather than later.

[TranquilMind]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I can't hug you enough.

 

I have an ortho appmt in 3 minutes, must leave, but I HAVE BEEN THERE and I'll be back in a few.

 

Thanks.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[justLisa]

Thanks. No one ever hugs me. (Except spouse).

 

That helps.

 

Awww :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Tutor]

Oh my gosh! I would hit the roof too.

 

Personally I'm not sure I could pull this off but it is something to consider. The next time a child wants a ride to an activity I would sigh and say, "I don't care," and then walk away. No ride. No extra money for _______. No special load of laundry washed just so they can have their team clothes washed, etc.

 

What goes around comes around.

 

:iagree: This is the first idea that popped into my head, too... but I don't know if I could do it either. (At least not in the calm, confident fashion that would show my kids I'm serious and that I could stick to.)

[TranquilMind]

.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[I.Dup.]

I am so, so sorry. :( I do not have teens but I was not an easy teen. I regret it. I wish I had been easier on my parents. Someday your kids will mature, until then, join the countless saints who have prayed, cried, begged for the souls and love of their children. You are not alone. :grouphug:

[TranquilMind]

Mona100: I remember when my teen daughter was raging (13-14 yrs old), I would just send her to her room. I don't want to hear all of that because it would escalate. Sometimes you just have to make them walk away.

 

I can't. They are both larger and stronger than me now. I can't make them do anything and they know it.

 

 

I know you want respect but I am not going to respect someone if they just keep screaming and fighting me all the time regardless of who they are, parent or not. I know that might be harsh to say but for me at least dealing with my parents and now parenting my teen I feel that way.

 

 

Ok. What if they just keep asking you to do things you are responsible to do in the house, and do it without an attitude.

 

But I wouldn't wish the couple of years I had to deal with my daughter and her "moments" on my worst enemy.

 

This has been my life for the last two years, and actually for many years, to a lesser extent. My appendix blew out last year in the midst of one of these incidents and I know it was because of the stress. I nearly died and it would have been easier if I did.

[forty-two]

I can walk away from people who are just idiots. I just seem physically incapable of walking away from someone in my family who is so totally disrespecting me and so contemptuous of me. I don't know...it's like some inner Robert De Niro emerges and I go into that whole "You talkin' to ME? Are you talkin' to ME? (Looks around) Well, I'm the only one here..." routine.

 

When something isn't working, do something else. I know this, rationally. Practically, I can't seem to help myself.

 

:grouphug: I grew up also needing the last word, too.

 

Is there someone you respect who is able to walk away from that sort of immature "ha, ha, ha, you can't make me" attitude while still clearly retaining their authority - that their calm non-engagement of immature disrespect highlights their power and maturity? Maybe you could use them as inspiration for changing your own behavior - that they are living, breathing proof that you can decline invitations to battle without losing anything that matters.

 

I know that when I am tempted to yell at my dc, "why won't you *listen* to me!", I am answering my own question - why *would* you listen to and respect an authority who only has it by dint of sheer force? I think of the military officers who command genuine respect through who they are, as contrasted to the ones who have to yell and scream to get anyone to listen - and I try hard to emulate the calm certainty and quiet authority of the good ones. It helps me, anyway :grouphug:.

[BlessedMom]

:grouphug: I am so sorry you are going through this with your children. :grouphug:

 

Here is a website that might be helpful. There is a wealth of information on this site.

http://www.loveandlogic.com/

 

 

I highly recommend their books, etc... and you might find the book "Parenting Teens with Love & Logic" especially helpful.

Edited October 19, 2012 by BlessedMom

[Mona100]

I can't. They are both larger and stronger than me now. I can't make them do anything and they know it.

 

I couldn't physically make her do it either but she eventually got the message. I wasn't listening anymore to the crap spewing out of her mouth. It wasn't as simple as "Please go to your room". It was the ONLY thing that was said. Remember, it doesn't matter that they are bigger, they are still children and children that have temper tantrums get to leave my presence.

 

 

Ok. What if they just keep asking you to do things you are responsible to do in the house, and do it without an attitude.

 

If they are asking you to do things for them with attitude, I wouldn't do it. I would just laugh at them and go your merry little way. You are the parent. You are giving them too much power. I used to get upset about the attitude but it is their way of testing you. They know your buttons and they are stomping all over them.

 

This has been my life for the last two years, and actually for many years, to a lesser extent. My appendix blew out last year in the midst of one of these incidents and I know it was because of the stress. I nearly died and it would have been easier if I did.

 

I used to get so angry but once I really thought about it and saw my daughter started treating my mother in the same way as she treated me, a lightbulb went off in my head. My mother would take it to the next level and it would keep escalating and escalating. That is when I decided to turn it around and just ignore the attitude (even though they really shouldn't have the attitude) and told her to go away. Also during this time, I didn't do anything extra for her and just supplied the bare minimum. It takes a while but you can't let them see you sweat. It's hard. It sucks. I would rather deal with a 2 year old. But it will pass. Don't let them stress you out so much that you get sick. You won't be any good to anybody then.

[Pegasus]

:grouphug: My children are almost the same ages (almost 16 and almost 13). Have you tried talking to the teens, one-on-one, when no one is angry or upset? I'd separate the issues: it sounds like one is chores around the house and one is treating one another with respect.

 

For chores, have you tried asking them which chores they would be willing to do? I'm surprised by the chores my DDs do willingly. DD16 does the laundry, from collecting, sorting, washing, drying, and folding. She likes it because she can do what she wants between loads. DD13 likes to work outside, pulling weeds, cleaning gutters, sweeping walks, etc. Sometimes I make a long list of everything that needs to be done and they take turns initialing beside the ones they will do. They cooperate more willingly if I am not just telling them what to do.

 

About respect, I'd be tempted to start with an apology. Getting angry, yelling, nagging, etc. is not respectful. Start with admitting where you have gone wrong and apologize and say that you are working on it and hope to do better. Then, discuss the specific words and actions from them that you find disrespectful and calmly ask that they refrain from these. When they can't show respect, they are to go to their rooms until they can, through mealtimes, if necessary.

 

It's important for DH to back you up, when necessary. You two need to be on the same page with your approach or the kids will play you off each other.

[TranquilMind]

.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[ErinE]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I was an awful teen and I was so caught up in my own drama that I wouldn't respect those around me. There was nothing my parents said or did that made things better. Now that i'm an adult with children of my own, I'm grateful my mother let me live to adulthood.

[justamouse]

First, they are still young, there is hope. I wish I was able to understand when I was having the troubles with my first (who did the same).

 

I am saying this very softly--

 

I was a lot like you. I was raised in a house that was the same. I didn't know how not to escalate-it was just the natural progression of the confrontation.

 

You have to unplug.

 

I will tell you a story about my first big aha on how to deal with this.

 

My oldest, 21 now, would go into a full blown rage, often. He was totally impulsive and would constantly hurt people, and I didn't know how t o deal with it when he was younger, so by the time he was older, it was a nightmare.

 

He had done something--I think that time it was that he was walking behind his sister's chair at dinner, and he bopped her in the back of the head, her face hit the plate and chipped her tooth. We were *furious*. It got mean, and nasty and ugly because at that point, it was the one thing more on top of all the other things he'd done...

 

In all that yelling and talking back, he had become an impenetrable wall. So, I had sent him to his room for a while, called him back out, and he sat there, slumped in his chair, with rage steaming off him.

 

I put my hand on his shoulder and told him that I *knew* it was an accident. And that I know he didn't mean it, and I know he is sorry...and just like that he broke down and started to cry. (it didn't fix everything but my light bulb went off)

 

He really has a soft heart. He is a sweet kid. He just was making really impulsive choices.

 

More anger does not work with angry kids. Punishment does not work. You're just stepping up their anger and self righteousness.

 

This is really hard for you, and I get that, because it was really hard for me. I am a tackle it head on person, I do not mince words, and I'm not afraid of a fight. I also ran a punitive household. One time obedience and all that.

 

It doesn't work. Especially when your kids are as strong willed as we are. ;) It becomes nothing more than a battle of the wills, and in that battle, we lose their hearts.

 

You need to learn a different way to communicate. You need to learn to ignore the dumb stuff they say to get a rise out of you, and you need to start to use humor.

 

It's hard because you just feel like that would be giving into them, and you feel like they don't deserve it--but we're not deserving of the grace we get either, are we?

[Mama Geek]

:grouphug::grouphug:Just wanted to give you an extra couple of :grouphug:

[TranquilMind]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I was an awful teen and I was so caught up in my own drama that I wouldn't respect those around me. There was nothing my parents said or did that made things better. Now that i'm an adult with children of my own, I'm grateful my mother let me live to adulthood.

 

 

Yeah.

 

I'm more wondering if I am going to make it then if they are.

[TranquilMind]

:grouphug::grouphug:Just wanted to give you an extra couple of :grouphug:

 

Thanks.

[AK_Mom4]

OP - :grouphug:

 

You asked what the trick was to walking away?

 

Well, it's just to walk away. You know that when you blow up at them about the contempt and the disrespect and the eye-rolling that it just plays the power into their hands. They push your buttons and you react in a juvenile, angry fashion. No wonder it doesn't work out well.

 

Now - :grouphug:. I've been there. The biggest thing that surviving teenagers has taught me was to KEEP MY TEMPER. Stand there and look at them like they have 3 heads when they are behaving badly. Walk away if you can't keep from exploding.

 

I hear in your post how awful you feel about all this and how frustrated you are. But changing how you behave is the only thing that you REALLY have control over....

[SunnyDays]

I'm so sorry, TM. I think you need a few more hugs. :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

No good advice here... I'm with Erin in that I was rather unpleasant as a teen, at least for a few years, and I'm really surprised I was allowed to survive. I guess it speaks to the unconditional love of a mom.

 

My guy is still 9 years old and loves to cuddle. I dread what will happen a few years down the road.

 

One more :grouphug: for good measure. :)

[bzymom]

FWIW, I am surprised each time I realize anew that my big guys survived the teen years. It was close.:grouphug: I have two teens now, and it does get easier. I have been collecting donations to send all teens onto an island called "Smart@ssland" until they reach about 23.

 

I know they have worn you down, but you have got to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and regain your position as the authority. Do not engage ugliness. Walk away. Close your door, turn on music, and let them talk to the walls or each other. If they do not take care of their responsibilities, allow as many natural consequences as possible. Don't pick up the slack for them. Need a ride? Earn a ride. Need new shoes? Earn new shoes. Nobody earns anything simply by the gift of their presence.

 

You must re-teach them how to treat you. Stand tall and remember they are nuts.

[justamouse]

OP - :grouphug:

 

You asked what the trick was to walking away?

 

Well, it's just to walk away. You know that when you blow up at them about the contempt and the disrespect and the eye-rolling that it just plays the power into their hands. They push your buttons and you react in a juvenile, angry fashion. No wonder it doesn't work out well.

 

Now - :grouphug:. I've been there. The biggest thing that surviving teenagers has taught me was to KEEP MY TEMPER. Stand there and look at them like they have 3 heads when they are behaving badly. Walk away if you can't keep from exploding.

 

I hear in your post how awful you feel about all this and how frustrated you are. But changing how you behave is the only thing that you REALLY have control over....

 

:iagree:

 

It is SO HARD when you were parented in one way, and you have to make a 180. It is hard to break those habits.

 

The other thing I wanted to mention was speaking positive things to them.

 

If your household is anything like mine was back then, we had *nothing* nice to say to each other. I would criticize him from morning till night --he honestly didn't do much right--but I started to realize that WHO could handle that? Who?

 

So I had to think about how to compliment him. To be slow to anger, to think on the good things, and soon, that's what started coming out of my mouth. It was no rushing waters, believe me, but he started softening, then he started listening.

 

Things below up pretty badly after that, but we had the tools to work though it.

 

TQ, rejoice, you are being perfected through this trial!

[nevergiveup]

Could be worse:

 

Picture this: winter, my sister coming home from brain surgery, patio full of chicken manure because no one could be bothered to pen them, entry piled with dirty clothes that one had to walk on with shoes covered in chicken poop, heavy smell of cat box the cat couldn't even stand so he used the clothes piles: me asking nephews (20 and 26) to help only to be told by younger one that he didn't have to since I had no authority and elder one that he didn't have to because he didn't live there any more (he had come home to borrow money), me screaming YOUR MOTHER SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WALK THROUGH CHICKEN **** TO GET INTO THE HOUSE, falling on deaf ears as they went back to online gaming.

 

 

 

 

Same scenario when she died.

[TranquilMind]

.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[justLisa]

OP I tell my husband I wish there was pot that was legal, and didn't stink and make you stupid :lol:

[TranquilMind]

AK_Mom4:

 

You asked what the trick was to walking away?

 

Well, it's just to walk away. You know that when you blow up at them about the contempt and the disrespect and the eye-rolling that it just plays the power into their hands. They push your buttons and you react in a juvenile, angry fashion. No wonder it doesn't work out well.

 

I suppose so.

 

 

But changing how you behave is the only thing that you REALLY have control over

 

Obviously, I don't. I have control over a lot of things, and am a highly responsible individual, but seem to struggle here.

[DianeW88]

I'm so, so sorry. I've parented teens to young adulthood, but I never had to deal with anything remotely like what you're describing. Any advice I have about teens would most likely sound trite and simplistic to you at this point, so I won't offer any. I am sending you lots of :grouphug:, however. I would feel very defeated in your shoes. :grouphug:

[Trish]

Well I only have one teen, and freshly-minted at that, so I sympathize with what you've probably been going through for a WHILE now! :grouphug: I will say I've noticed definite moodiness in my formerly sunny child. At this point (and I realize we haven't gotten into the really difficult teen years yet) I've been trying to stay the course with what has worked in the past.

 

When I hear sullen or surly tones, I get brighter and sunnier! When I hear backtalk or rude talk (and I get to define what that is) I ask Mr. Sullen to rephrase or try again. If he doesn't comply with what I've asked him to do in a reasonable time frame, then his consequence will show up at a MOST INCONVENIENT time. (I do give a warning for this, that there will "be a consequence" if "such and such is not completed by" whatever reasonable time.)

 

The only thing that has worked (so far) is STICKING TO THAT. If they've been rude and uncooperative all day, I would NOT drive them anywhere, or permit them to drive themselves to X, Y, Z. Even if they have obligations to teams and activities and so forth. Their FIRST obligation is to respect the family. If they can't do that, then the teams/actitivies are meaningless.

 

I don't talk to them in rude, demeaning or uncaring ways (other than an occasional Mom Meltdown, which results in a Mom Apology), so I expect equally good treatment from them.

 

This is especially effective if done with a CHEERFUL demeanor. As if I didn't care if they EVER picked up that stray pair of underwear off the family room floor, because we could run an ENTIRE household around it including dinner parties, and I'd be free of the obligation to drive them to team practices for the forseeable future.

 

So liberating!

 

:D

[justamouse]

That's already done.

 

I had a great sense of humor, once upon a time. My husband and I used to laugh, once upon a time.

 

But they have already won. Here I sit alone tonight, because one told me I was unwanted at an event. I will be alone all weekend.

 

Can you pinpoint where you started to lose them? Can you remember where it started to unravel?

 

They haven't won. You know why? Because they still want to wound you, and that means they still are angry enough to, which means that they are not ambivalent.

 

That was mean, and they did it on purpose. They're angry and it's the ammunition they have.

 

I love the book, Parenting with Grace. It's Catholic, but if you're willing to overlook that point ;) , it's THE best book I've read on parenting, hands down. If you can download it to kindle and start reading it, you can have a little retreat for yourself this weekend, and perhaps it could give you some ideas as to how to heal this wound your kids have.

 

Now's the time to fight, Mom. Fight to keep them, don't let them win. You're strong enough to. :grouphug:

Edited October 19, 2012 by justamouse

[TranquilMind]

.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[justamouse]

Yes, one child is still ambivalent,and I suppose you are right. The other one doesn't seem to care at all.

 

They act like they don't care. They care. I went through that wringer. He still cared, and now he calls me once a week to keep me up on his life. You have to fight through this.

 

Try and think about the last times you were cohesive and loving.

 

Can you get into se a counselor this weekend?

[SunnyDays]

I guess I'm stubborn and bit**y enough that I'd say, "Guess what? It's a free country and I'll attend any event that I dam* well please." But then again, my son hasn't wounded me in the way your child has. I don't blame you for the pity party. :grouphug:

 

Can you pull focus off of them a bit? Find something completely unrelated to the kids that you're interested in and put some energy into that? I'm sure it sounds trite and I have no idea whether it would do any good, just a thought.

[butterflymommy]

I skimmed replies so forgive me if this was addressed. I was nodding my head saying "me too, me too" until you said you had called the police. Did this involved a physical threat against you? If so you need professional help to deal with this.

 

But, as far as dealing with mouthy, disrespectful teens, I pick my battles and let everything (including academics, to an extent) slide except the following: they must pull their weight in the household in terms of cleaning and chores. And they cannot be blatantly disrespectful to me. Blatant disrespect would include the following-- walking away from me when I am speaking, interrupting me with rude and snarky comments mid sentence, eye rolling. If they break either of those two rules I wouldn't hesitate to take everything they hold dear away from them and strip their rooms to the mattress, blanket, pillow, and two sets of clothes, and take their room door off the hinges until they earn it back. The last time my son was horribly disrespectful to me I seized every cable on his computer and he had to earn them back by being respectful for three days. I don't know if this helps... remember Dr Phil (whom I'm not really a fan of, but anyway) says you have to find their currency and take away that currency if they don't follow the rules.

 

However if there is any domestic violence involved on the part of your teens that is a whole different ballgame and is beyond the scope of anonymous ears on a message board. Please get help somewhere if that's the case. :grouphug:

[justLisa]

You know your kids are kinda making ME mad now. How sad!! And mean. They told you you are not wanted at an event?

 

Well no one is perfect. But you pushed them out and love them. That level of disrespect for you is not ok.

 

I say send them to boot camp. They can learn what it's like for someone to not give a crap about their feelings.

[TranquilMind]

*

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[Caraway]

Did your husband go with them to this event? Why were they allowed to go after such bad behavior?

[TranquilMind]

.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

Did your husband go with them to this event? Why were they allowed to go after such bad behavior?

 

Because it was too late to cancel and others were relying upon their roles also (including spouse). I don't really want to be too specific.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:grouphug: Are you homeschooling them?

 

I don't have wise advice, TM, but I do know I would only give people who hurt me a very limited portion of the day in which to do it. Even if that meant a totally crapola public school resulting in limited options for their future. My boys know that homeschooling is a privilege and relationships are a two-way street. I've never had to cash that check, but I've written it. And I mean it.

 

I'm also angry and sad for you. I'm praying the BTDT moms here can help you see the path through this era of your life.

[Lisa R.]

In your original post, you said that your dh doesn't know what to do and just tolerates all this.

 

IMO, I think this could well be the main problem.

 

In my house, one of my dc had a very strong personality. He could be rude and insensitive. Sometimes the rudeness came from insensitivity and sometimes it came from just plain rudeness. I don't have a very strong personality. I'm fairly calm, reserved and don't ever really command a lot of attention. What I needed was someone with a *stronger personality than me* to come in and take over at times. Dh would come in and tell him to *knock it off*. It worked. It took many times over the years, but it did defuse the situation. I just refused to deal with it. "You can just talk to your dad, then." And I'd walk away. My dh is a really, really nice guy too. But he talked in a way that demanded attention.

 

This is your dh's job. Even if he is a more laid-back person than you, even if he is quieter than you--I believe your kids will respond if he gets very still (or very loud--depending on his personality), get very close to them, and makes it clear that the blatant disrespect for you needs to stop.

 

You really need to enlist your dh here. In most cases I've seen, kids listen to dad better than mom when it comes to the serious stuff. Totally unfair given all we sacrifice and give them. But there it is.

 

:grouphug:

[Rebecca VA]

n/m

Edited October 20, 2012 by Rebecca VA

[TranquilMind]

Tibbie Dunbar: Are you homeschooling them?

 

 

Only 1 now, and only somewhat, as he is attending a really good academic co-op.

 

Academics have never been a problem for either.

Edited October 20, 2012 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

Lisa R.: In your original post, you said that your dh doesn't know what to do and just tolerates all this.

 

 

Well, he doesn't tolerate, as in not address it. He addresses it, ad nauseum. But what can he really DO. There are no options. You can't actually do anything like throw them in solitary confinement or something. They know this.

 

 

What I needed was someone with a *stronger personality than me* to come in and take over at times. Dh would come in and tell him to *knock it off*. It worked. It took many times over the years, but it did defuse the situation. I just refused to deal with it. "You can just talk to your dad, then." And I'd walk away. My dh is a really, really nice guy too. But he talked in a way that demanded attention.

 

 

I'm the one with the stronger personality here. He is very laid back.

 

This is your dh's job. Even if he is a more laid-back person than you, even if he is quieter than you--I believe your kids will respond if he gets very still (or very loud--depending on his personality), get very close to them, and makes it clear that the blatant disrespect for you needs to stop.

 

Done, and done again. Multiple times. Seriously. Quietly. Harshly. Calmly.

 

So now what...?

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm sorry, TM. That's just heartbreaking. :grouphug:

[SunnyDays]

So now what...?

 

 

It's okay to feel sorry for yourself here, really. Unfortunately, when no one else is taking care of you, you have to stop and take care of yourself, however that looks. I'm just so sorry you're down. :grouphug:

Edited October 19, 2012 by SunnyDays