WWYD regarding tardiness

[teachermom2834]

This is a situation at our very large co-op.

 

Worker A works the nursery shift in the morning. Worker B works the nursery shift in the afternoon. Shift change is at 12:30. Worker A is supposed to stay until 12:45 for a changeover/ exchange pertinent info about kids, etc.

 

Suppose you are worker A. 10 weeks into the semester Worker B has been on time (but not a minute early) every week except 2. One week Worker B was standing in the hallway right outside nursery having a conversation and was 10 minutes late. One week Worker B was outside in the hallway talking and was 3-4 minutes late. All other weeks Worker B is showing up at exactly 12:30.

 

At 12:30, Worker A has an adult helper and a teen helper and 0-1 kids in there. In other words Worker A could leave if necessary or poke her head in the hallway and say "hey, I need you in here", etc.

 

What would your level of upset be if you were Worker A? I am Worker B and my co-worker jumped on me last week in front of two other people calling me habitually late, etc. I showed her my phone which showed I was on time and even the clock on her phone said I was on time. Yet, she continued on and appears to have been harboring resentment all semester over my lateness.

 

I apologized and told her I'd be more careful but also pointed out that I was on time. She said I "cut it too close" and need to stop doing that. She referenced the time I was 10 minutes late in the hallway and continued on. I apologized the day that happened and pointed out that she had no kids in there and could have left. (though she is technically supposed to stay for a 15 minute overlap).

 

I'm kind of unsure how to proceed. I'm pretty upset to be called out for being late but don't really want to respond to this by showing up early every week just to appease her. I haven't mentioned anything to our volunteer coordinator aka our boss.

 

For reference, this is not a place with a culture of "being early is being on time". It is a paid position but I have always worked over, done extra little tasks. I'm paid but it is still my kids' co-op and I don't expect to be paid for every little thing or get out exactly on time. I've never made her late.

 

So, what do you think? Is Worker A off base for taking me to task for my behavior in front of two other people or was my behavior really that bad?

[Ellie]

She was definitely out of line to chew you out in front of others.:glare:

 

But you need to be sure you're on time. It doesn't matter that others are there so that she could leave if you're late.

 

But you DON'T need to be there early, FCOL.

[BigMamaBird]

Just my humble opinion here.

 

She was rude on two fronts, 1) Speaking to you harshly and 2) doing so in front of others.

 

However, in a situation like that, I personally feel it's polite to arrive five minutes or so early.

[teachermom2834]

I do agree it wasn't ok for her to chew you out in front of others. But being late for no good reason is not ok.

 

I do agree with this. I'm normally early/ always on time. That is why I am so aware of what time it is. I do notice when I'm late because I'm pretty uptight about time.

 

I used to work the morning shift and I know how anxious I was for my relief to come and how aggravated I would get that my replacement was routinely 10-15 minutes late. I never would have responded that way, though.

 

I'm just trying to gauge exactly how bad my behavior was. I feel bad that I was 10 minutes late even once but for her to still be stewing over it a month later seems overboard to me. I guess I kind of figure these things happen sometimes in these settings and it isn't really appropriate to be quite that upset about it.

 

It's co-op. I guess I just expect such things to happen from time to time.

 

This is the third year I am working with this woman and that one time I was 10 minutes late is the first time I was ever late. I guess that is why I am kind of :confused: by the strength of her reaction.

 

I will definitely NOT be late again.

[bolt.]

She's probably just stressed out. Maybe the time you were late she had some massive consiquence in her life, and now worries about it happening again. She doesn't seem to think she can 'just leave' and she seems to value having the full amount of transition time. She probably never just steps across the threshold the exact moment she's due. Some people are just wired that way. It sounds like she had a bunch of feelings and her reactions got away from her. (So, what I mean is that her inner reaction is normal for people of a certain temperament... but people of that temperament really need to watch that they don't say everything they think.)

 

In any case her feelings are her own, and it is not your job to deal with them, prevent them or compensate for their presence. In your position, I would mention it next week. Perhaps I would step inside the room immediately when I arrived (early) and (with an attempted smile) say something like, "I'm here, but I'm going to stand outside and socialize until my shift starts. I understood what you said last week about your perception that I come late, or your opinion that it's not right for me to cut it close -- but I don't agree with you. I intend to start my shift at the time it starts. Also, I found the way you spoke to me quite rude. If I'm late, you can mention it -- otherwise, I expect you to treat me with courtesy. I just thought I'd let you know about my feelings and my plans, so we are on the level. See you at 12:30."

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Twice is not habitual but neither time was necessary. You shouldn't be chatting in the hall while she works into your shift.

 

As worker A I would be annoyed but I would not have been a drama queen about it. I just would have asked you once, politely, to come on time, and if that failed I would see if we could swap shifts or something.

 

If you were tending to a sick child or some kind of real issue that made you a little late, or even very late, I wouldn't give it a second thought or hold a grudge because anybody sensible knows what a Mom's life is like. But yeah, visiting in the hallway while I did your work would not sit well with me.

[happypamama]

She was definitely out of line to chew you out in front of others.:glare:

 

But you need to be sure you're on time. It doesn't matter that others are there so that she could leave if you're late.

 

But you DON'T need to be there early, FCOL.

 

Twice is not habitual but neither time was necessary. You shouldn't be chatting in the hall while she works into your shift.

 

As worker A I would be annoyed but I would not have been a drama queen about it. I just would have asked you once, politely, to come on time, and if that failed I would see if we could swap shifts or something.

 

If you were tending to a sick child or some kind of real issue that made you a little late, or even very late, I wouldn't give it a second thought or hold a grudge because anybody sensible knows what a Mom's life is like. But yeah, visiting in the hallway while I did your work would not sit well with me.

 

I agree with both of these posts. In the future, I'd just make an effort to be there on time, even a minute early, maybe, just to show that you're making the effort.

[teachermom2834]

Twice is not habitual but neither time was necessary. You shouldn't be chatting in the hall while she works into your shift.

 

As worker A I would be annoyed but I would not have been a drama queen about it. I just would have asked you once, politely, to come on time, and if that failed I would see if we could swap shifts or something.

 

If you were tending to a sick child or some kind of real issue that made you a little late, or even very late, I wouldn't give it a second thought or hold a grudge because anybody sensible knows what a Mom's life is like. But yeah, visiting in the hallway while I did your work would not sit well with me.

 

Oh yeah. I agree about the one time I was late being bad. Someone caught me in the hallway about homeschool group business and I was trying to wrap it up and time got away from me a bit. I always took responsibility for that with her. Just thought it was unusual for her to carry resentment about that on for so long when I had a perfect record for two years previous. But maybe not.

[LaxMom]

Late is late and, frankly, I would be sort of annoyed if someone was 10 minutes late because they chose to continue a conversation outside the door without sticking their head in to relieve me.

 

However, being on time is not late. If she was supposed to leave at 12:30, then by all means, you should arrive a few minutes early to get the shift change stuff out of the way, but that overlap is built into the scheduling here, so arriving on time is on time and not delaying her departure in any way.

 

Her rudeness is just that, and a completely different issue.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I totally agree that she's reacting out of proportion to the offense. She probably has ulcers if she's capable of that level of grudge-holding. I would have been mad at you at the time but I'd almost certainly forget about it within a day or two, choosing to consider logically that you had a really good track record.

[sassenach]

If I were you, I'd acknowledge that those 2 times you were late were annoying. From here on out, be on time every time. I don't think you need to be early, but be sure that you're not a minute late.

[staceyobu]

Overly uptight, imo. Especially if there are 0 kids and she could just step out in the hallway and say "hey... no kids! I'm taking off! If someone walks up with a kid... your turn!"

 

If she's supposed to stay until 12:45 and you are arriving in time for her to leave at 12:45, then she shouldn't complain. So what if you walk in at 12:44? If there is only one kid, she can tell you everything you need to know in one minute and still be outta there on time.

[teachermom2834]

If I were you, I'd acknowledge that those 2 times you were late were annoying. From here on out, be on time every time. I don't think you need to be early, but be sure that you're not a minute late.

 

This is what I am thinking. I have now apologized for those times I was late 3 times. I think it is time to let it go and I have been duly punished.

 

I'm sure what is also bugging me is that I have always let her leave as soon as I get there. That means 15 minutes early usually and even when I was late she left 5 minutes early. I just never thought it was a big deal and wasn't going to run and report her. I wasn't going to bring it up because I don't feel like it has any bearing on MY responsibility to do my job and be on time. I think I need to admit that is part of why I feel so put upon by her chastisement of me.

 

I just really hate confrontation and thought I had a good working relationship with this person. I'm bummed to know what she really thinks of me.

[Anne in CA]

I work with many different personality types of people. My guess is that this woman is someone who is A) Feels her way is always right, that is why you should not cut it close but be early. She may simply not be able to expand her mind to accept that your are entitled to be just on time. B) Feels that she should be in charge, that is why she is telling you to be early and why she feels it is fine for her to leave early. I think this is a personality issue, and I think the only way she has a good working relationship with someone is if they do whatever she wants. She probably considers it her responsibility to keep after you. I have worked with three women like this and none of them know why other people find them unbearable.

 

I would mess with her a little bit, be five minutes early next time but not let her go right then, telling her she needs to wait fifteen minutes after the shift starts. That is the sort of thing I do to keep this sort of personality in check. They get a little huffy, but give you respect in the future. If you don't have to work with her in the future, I would not worry about her at all. She will not change for you, and you probably have the best working relationship with her that anybody but a door mouse could.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I work with many different personality types of people. My guess is that this woman is someone who is A) Feels her way is always right, that is why you should not cut it close but be early. She may simply not be able to expand her mind to accept that your are entitled to be just on time. B) Feels that she should be in charge, that is why she is telling you to be early and why she feels it is fine for her to leave early. I think this is a personality issue, and I think the only way she has a good working relationship with someone is if they do whatever she wants. She probably considers it her responsibility to keep after you. I have worked with three women like this and none of them know why other people find them unbearable.

 

I would mess with her a little bit, be five minutes early next time but not let her go right then, telling her she needs to wait fifteen minutes after the shift starts. That is the sort of thing I do to keep this sort of personality in check. They get a little huffy, but give you respect in the future. If you don't have to work with her in the future, I would not worry about her at all. She will not change for you, and you probably have the best working relationship with her that anybody but a door mouse could.

 

Wow. If the OP wants to get into a contest with her co-worker about who has the most psychotic approach to time-keeping, this method might keep her in the running.

 

Wouldn't it just be a lot simpler to be on time (not early, but at the shift change as agreed upon initially) and avoid unnecessary tardiness? And then, knowing she's kept her word and done her job, ignore the other woman's issues?

[Anne in CA]

Of course it would be more simple to just ignore the outburst and be on time for her shift if the OP is not going to keep working with this woman for much more time. My example is if the OP is going to be working with this woman for the next couple of years. The reason I gave is valid if I am correctly guessing this person's personality: respect. I have worked with my coworkers for 16 years, we need respect as much as we need water, lol. No one method of dealing with people works for all people.

[teachermom2834]

Wow. If the OP wants to get into a contest with her co-worker about who has the most psychotic approach to time-keeping, this method might keep her in the running.

 

Wouldn't it just be a lot simpler to be on time (not early, but at the shift change as agreed upon initially) and avoid unnecessary tardiness? And then, knowing she's kept her word and done her job, ignore the other woman's issues?

 

Yes...I think this will be my approach. I certainly don't look to escalate and do fully intend to be on time.

[Artichoke]

Yes...I think this will be my approach. I certainly don't look to escalate and do fully intend to be on time.

 

 

Maybe you should check with her to see if your definition and her definition of being on time are the same. For me, being in the room at 12:30 and transitioning would be my idea of on time, even if there are no children. For you, it seems that being present at the nursery door is being on time, especially since there are no children at the time. Just clarifying what "on time" looks like for each of you would probably help clear the air.

[phathui5]

When we have a childcare person due to arrive at 12:30, I'm expecting them to be through the door by 12:29.

 

The time that you were late because you were talking in the hallway, I think the thing to do would have been to tell the mom you were talking to that you needed to continue the conversation in the nursery.

[Wheres Toto]

This is what I am thinking. I have now apologized for those times I was late 3 times. I think it is time to let it go and I have been duly punished.

 

I'm sure what is also bugging me is that I have always let her leave as soon as I get there. That means 15 minutes early usually and even when I was late she left 5 minutes early. I just never thought it was a big deal and wasn't going to run and report her. I wasn't going to bring it up because I don't feel like it has any bearing on MY responsibility to do my job and be on time. I think I need to admit that is part of why I feel so put upon by her chastisement of me.

 

I just really hate confrontation and thought I had a good working relationship with this person. I'm bummed to know what she really thinks of me.

 

Given this it sounds like she got used to leaving early and was upset that she couldn't that one week. Maybe she made plans based on her early release time and couldn't make them.

 

Did she know at 12:30 that you were outside talking? Or was she inside waiting, not knowing if you were in the building or stuck in traffic, or running late? If she knew you were in the hallway talking, I definitely think she overreacted.

[Catwoman]

I may be in a very tiny minority here, but I think Worker A is an anal retentive idiot with serious control issues and a lack of decent manners.

 

Who would call someone out for being 10 minutes late ONE TIME IN TWO YEARS??? And why would she ever do it in front of other people???

 

Personally, I would be livid at the woman and I would tell her point blank that if she ever has a problem with me again, she'd better discuss it with me in private or we'd both be speaking to whomever is in charge of the co-op to sort things out.

 

She was WAY out of line.

[MommaOfalotta]

I think it is important to try and be on time (which you were, all except for two occasions.. if I understood correctly.) That, to me, is not enough to warrant an outburst like that. Yes, I think you should try and not be late in the future, but when I put myself in Worker A's position, I imagine I would be a little annoyed/irritated but not full out angry over something that has only happened twice.

 

Either way, it was totally not okay for her to call you out in front of others. Personally, I would have an issue with the WAY she said it. Its one thing to ask for you to be on time instead of being late for talking in the hall.. but its another thing completely for her to tell you "you were cutting it close," and so on. She is not your boss.. and you are a much better person than me, because I would have given it right back to her.

 

:001_smile:

Edited October 18, 2012 by BlessedMomma

[teachermom2834]

Given this it sounds like she got used to leaving early and was upset that she couldn't that one week. Maybe she made plans based on her early release time and couldn't make them.

 

Did she know at 12:30 that you were outside talking? Or was she inside waiting, not knowing if you were in the building or stuck in traffic, or running late? If she knew you were in the hallway talking, I definitely think she overreacted.

 

Yes, she knew I was right outside the hallway talking and she was sitting in the nursery with another adult,a teen, and either one child (or no children). I still was in there before her scheduled time to leave.

 

So, I totally and completely get that I was wrong to be late. But to still be stewing over this situation a month later has me a little taken aback. I think once I did that, though, the microscope was on me and my arrival time.

[KungFuPanda]

She's wound a bit too tightly, I think. I would make an effort to walk in at 12:29/12:30 every week. Getting there early is pointless with a 15 minute shift overlap. It's not like your tardiness ever prevented her from leaving on time! Or is she trying to leave at 12:30 and doesn't get that there is overlap?

[teachermom2834]

She's wound a bit too tightly, I think. I would make an effort to walk in at 12:29/12:30 every week. Getting there early is pointless with a 15 minute shift overlap. It's not like your tardiness ever prevented her from leaving on time! Or is she trying to leave at 12:30 and doesn't get that there is overlap?

 

It is possible that there is a misunderstanding about the overlap. Perhaps she has forgotten or maybe I have it wrong and that it changed and I missed the memo. In that case, I would totally get her being annoyed by my 12:29/ 12:30 entrances. I'd feel that way, too, if I was her in that case. I need to get to the bottom of the misunderstanding. If I'm wrong, and that overlap is no longer built in then I can see her position much better.

 

Still, it is much harder to deal given her reaction. I wish we could have talked about this weeks ago in a calmer manner. It obviously was really bothering her. I'll do my best to smooth it over.

[Catwoman]

Still, it is much harder to deal given her reaction. I wish we could have talked about this weeks ago in a calmer manner. It obviously was really bothering her. I'll do my best to smooth it over.

 

Not for anything, but shouldn't she be the one trying to "smooth things over" with you? :confused: She's the one who tried to humiliate you in front of other people.

 

Honestly, being late once in 2 years is something to be commended, not berated!

[teachermom2834]

Not for anything, but shouldn't she be the one trying to "smooth things over" with you? :confused: She's the one who tried to humiliate you in front of other people.

 

Honestly, being late once in 2 years is something to be commended, not berated!

 

well, I do kind of think so but I'm not sure it will get me anywhere. I think this is a go along to get along thing. I'll admit I keep trying to think of who else could be in my job that would have been as reliable as I've been over the years.

 

I really hate dealing with things like this but I have found in the past that being overly accomodating / apologetic about things has come back to bite me as it resulted only in more rude behavior from the other party. So, my gut tells me to go in 10 minutes early every week to avoid confrontation but I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to apologize again and I'm not going to go early.

 

Surely a 10 minute tardiness can eventually be forgiven ;)

 

And that is just about as assertive as I can be in this situation.

[Catwoman]

well, I do kind of think so but I'm not sure it will get me anywhere. I think this is a go along to get along thing. I'll admit I keep trying to think of who else could be in my job that would have been as reliable as I've been over the years.

 

I really hate dealing with things like this but I have found in the past that being overly accomodating / apologetic about things has come back to bite me as it resulted only in more rude behavior from the other party. So, my gut tells me to go in 10 minutes early every week to avoid confrontation but I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to apologize again and I'm not going to go early.

 

Surely a 10 minute tardiness can eventually be forgiven ;)

 

And that is just about as assertive as I can be in this situation.

 

I absolutely agree and I think you are doing exactly the right thing.

[Ghee]

Just my humble opinion here.

 

She was rude on two fronts, 1) Speaking to you harshly and 2) doing so in front of others.

 

However, in a situation like that, I personally feel it's polite to arrive five minutes or so early.

 

I think, in the case of the 15 min overlap, it's ridiculous to be early. Go ON TIME, 15 minutes is more than enough to bring someone up to speed about a handful of kids. Worker A needs to untwist her panties.