How much should children be told?

[Murphy101]

I've just realized that there is an assumption going on with a lot of people here that basically reads like this:

 

telling the child the truth =

constantly running the child's father down to the child

 

I know that people have done that in some people's experience, but I don't think it's an accurate assumption. You can tell the child the truth (that their father had an affair) without giving gory details and without constantly rehashing it or otherwise repeatedly running their father down to their face.

 

 

:iagree: One does not at all equal the other.

 

I also don't think my marriage is private from my kids. They live here. What we do or don't do directly and forever affects them. Sure it is rude and too private to ask other people, but their own parents? Not at all.

[momma2three]

I think this idea is where a lot of the disagreement lies. This is a new, modern idea that childhood is some special class of life and that the adult's world is somehow separate from the child's and that children are some different class of person than adults.

 

Not everyone buys the modern interpretation of childhood as some special time to be sheltered and protected.

 

To those who do see childhood as some sort of special time where innocence is to be protected and joy should reign, telling them the truth seems like some kind of abusive behavior by robbing them of another piece of the "beauty of childhood" picture that the adult values.

 

To those who see children as people with less experience who need to gain experience in order to become adults, not telling them seems deceptive and abusive by not giving them the information they need to judge the goings-on around them accurately.

 

Perhaps I'm not seeing clearly, but I'm thinking that the difference really boils down to something along those lines (though perhaps I haven't worded it perfectly or in exactly the way that each thinks about it).

 

I don't think that children have ever been told about the sexual indiscretions of their elders, in any culture that I can think of.

[Murphy101]

I don't think that children have ever been told about the sexual indiscretions of their elders, in any culture that I can think of.

 

Oh please. Of course they were. Sometimes in graphic detail.

 

However that's not relevant, because that isn't what is being discussed here.

 

You toss the word 'sexual' in there like it means discussing sex, which would just be icky to share with a kid, and it doesn't mean that all.

 

What in the world do ya'll think Scarlett is saying? Do you think she is saying, "Your piece if poo dad was caught in the missionary position with that scank in our bedroom and that's why I divorced him!"

 

I guess she might. And I'd think that pretty dadblum awful of her!

 

Or, maybe, just maybe, it's more like, "Yes, I know who she is. Your dad has had a relationship with her since before we got divorced."

 

Kid: Is that why you got divorced?

 

Scarlett: It is one of many reasons why we got divorced. Your dad didn't want to share and keep our marriage vows anymore and I needed that to feel comfortable staying married. We were no longer able to be happy together, but that doesn't mean we aren't happy with you.

[TammyS]

I don't think that children have ever been told about the sexual indiscretions of their elders, in any culture that I can think of.

 

Yes, they have, in different ways in different communities. Sometimes, through criminal prosecution. Sometimes, because they would be publicly punished (such as being flogged). Sometimes, they would be made to make a public confession and apology to their community. Other ways in other places, too, I'm sure.

[bolt.]

Also, for most of history, in most places, "privacy" would have been inconceivable. People slept in public halls and basically anywhere there was shelter. They didn't wait until they were alone to make love. Children would not have been ignorant of *anybody's* sex life... bedrooms without children are incredibly recent as far as the whole scope of history.

[StephanieZ]

Well, that wasn't exactly the case in my situation. I didn't take my vows lightly, but there were more than a few 'subset of sins' that would have allowed me to divorce him. Regardless, 'we don't get along' wasn't a good enough reason and I would not have tried to pass that off to my ds9 at the time.

 

I didn't tell him the gory details...and I had A LOT of them on record. I just told him 'Your dad has a girlfriend and I'm divorcing him.'

 

Well, I think that "we don't get along" is not remotely representative of what I suggested saying, if I am interpreting correctly that this is directed at me.

 

I guess this is where we differ....I do not believe a marriage is 'private' to that extent to the offspring of said marriage. The marriage made the children but they have no right to know why the marriage ended?

 

You must also know that not all marriages end due to 'complicated' reasons or faults of two people. It takes 2 to make a marriage work, but one can destroy it nicely all on his own.

 

Again, you have misrepresented what I said, or maybe you just did not read it. I DID offer a description of why marriages end (and even an opening to further discussion at a more mature age, at which time one could revisit the level of detail appropriate and healthy). However, my explanation doesn't include rancor and blame, but rather a deeper truth and a sense of profound responsibility, along with a recognition of the infinite complexity of marriages. Apparently that is dissatisfying to you, as it didn't include the "It's all his fault! Not mine! At. All!" you seem to desire.

 

Actually, I think all marriages involve two people, and that at least 99% of divorces are caused not by one spouse bent on destroying the marriage, but due to a complex brew of failures of both spouses over the course of their relationship. If nothing else, the "wronged" spouse chose a spouse poorly and chose to procreate with said spouse unwisely. Those are not small errors, IMHO.

 

I really think that the focus on laying blame for divorce(s) is unhealthy. And, sharing that destructive focus with children who are ALREADY the victims of their parents failures is, in general, unwise and and irresponsible, IMHO.

 

But, as has been pointed out by others, you apparently intended this as a JAWM thread. You should have labeled it as such. Instead, you invited discussion on a topic that is sensitive in the hearts of many/most of the participants -- not just yours -- and then have proceeded to attack the respondents who didn't say what you wanted to hear. Not cool in my book.

Edited October 11, 2012 by StephanieZ

[Scarlett]

Again, you have misrepresented what I said, or maybe you just did not read it. I DID offer a description of why marriages end (and even an opening to further discussion at a more mature age, at which time one could revisit the level of detail appropriate and healthy). However, my explanation doesn't include rancor and blame, but rather a deeper truth and a sense of profound responsibility, along with a recognition of the infinite complexity of marriages. Apparently that is dissatisfying to you, as it didn't include the "It's all his fault! Not mine! At. All!" you seem to desire.

 

Actually, I think all marriages involve two people, and that at least 99% of divorces are caused not by one spouse bent on destroying the marriage, but due to a complex brew of failures of both spouses over the course of their relationship. If nothing else, the "wronged" spouse chose a spouse poorly and chose to procreate with said spouse unwisely. Those are not small errors, IMHO.

 

Well I will give you that I chose poorly. And hung on for 26 years. And procreated with such a spouse unwisely--although the outcome of that is the greatest joy of my life. I will also give you that I was an imperfect person married to an imperfect person....THAT didn't cause the divorce. His having sex with other woman caused the divorce. I will NEVER take responsibility for that. Ever.

 

 

 

I really think that the focus on laying blame for divorce(s) is unhealthy. And, sharing that destructive focus with children who are ALREADY the victims of their parents failures is, in general, unwise and and irresponsible, IMHO.

 

But, as has been pointed out by others, you apparently intended this as a JAWM thread. You should have labeled it as such. Instead, you invited discussion on a topic that is sensitive in the hearts of many/most of the participants -- not just yours -- and then have proceeded to attack the respondents who didn't say what you wanted to hear. Not cool in my book.

 

I have super busy on remodeling projects for days and have barely had time to think about this thread. I see there has been a lot of activity on it....probably a lot I want to respond to, disagree with, agree with whatever. This wasn't a JAWM...in fact it has totally gotten off track from my original question which was not about my circumstances but someone elses. The details of this poll aren't mine....and I actually was very curious about what would be the 'right' thing to do after 2 years of lies had passed.

 

I also don't think I have 'attacked' anyone. I have a very differernt opinion than you and others about what children should be told. I'm very happy with what I told my son. He stills loves his father, but he also knows the truth about how the girlfriend came into his father's life. WHY some of you think it is wrong to 'color' the child's opinion of such a person is beyond me. Would you like it if a person was party to destroying some portion of your life and those you trusted the most allowed you to form a personal bond with that person. That is sick in my opinion.

 

And for those of you who feel that you have nothing to lose by being silent....I disagree. You have the trust of your child to lose. He knows he can trust me to always tell him the truth. Sometimes he begs me for details I refuse to give. So I am not about filling him with sordid details to poison him. And true my 'sex' life is not his concern. But the reason for the destruction of his FOO IS his concern.

[Scarlett]

You toss the word 'sexual' in there like it means discussing sex, which would just be icky to share with a kid, and it doesn't mean that all.

 

What in the world do ya'll think Scarlett is saying? Do you think she is saying, "Your piece if poo dad was caught in the missionary position with that scank in our bedroom and that's why I divorced him!"

 

LOL. This made me laugh. No I did not divulge the many sick details I know. I had so much electronic evidence my attorney was gobsmacked. It was paperwork about 8 inches thick. Ds didn't ask many questions at first....as the years passed he said, 'how did you find out mom? Did you catch em'' I just smiled and said, 'you do not need those details.'

 

 

Or, maybe, just maybe, it's more like, "Yes, I know who she is. Your dad has had a relationship with her since before we got divorced."

 

Kid: Is that why you got divorced?

 

Scarlett: It is one of many reasons why we got divorced. Your dad didn't want to share and keep our marriage vows anymore and I needed that to feel comfortable staying married. We were no longer able to be happy together, but that doesn't mean we aren't happy with you.

 

 

Yes this was about it. Ds and I have had long discussions about the imperfection of marriage mates and how nothing justifies adultery and how harmful it is. My son knows I am not a perfect person. I don't try to present myself as such.

[FO4UR]

I've just realized that there is an assumption going on with a lot of people here that basically reads like this:

 

telling the child the truth =

constantly running the child's father down to the child

 

I know that people have done that in some people's experience, but I don't think it's an accurate assumption. You can tell the child the truth (that their father had an affair) without giving gory details and without constantly rehashing it or otherwise repeatedly running their father down to their face.

 

 

:iagree: This is what I was trying to communicate. Basic truth. No gory details. No opinionated rants. Basic truth.

 

 

 

 

 

But the reason for the destruction of his FOO IS his concern.

 

 

:iagree:

[kolamum]

Depends on the ages of the children.

 

Older children will figure it out soon enough {teens}.

 

Younger children won't, until they are much older & by then the relationship may or may not still be.

[OrganicAnn]

I think that the mom shouldn't be the one telling this fact about the Dad. I do think the Dad should be telling the truth. So what if the Dad won't? I don't know.

 

I don't think kids need to know every detail about why a marriage broke up. They do need to be told that it wasn't their fault. I know lots of kids think it was their fault. If they need to know more and ask for more information, then I think they should have age appropriate information.

 

I know adults whose parent's have divorced and they don't know the 'facts' of why. Adult kids understand that there are personal reasons that parents divorce.

 

I would worry that the Mom would be 'telling the truth' in order to get back at the Dad and trying to alienate the kids affection from the Dad. I've seen that happen. The little digs. Ironically it can lead to the kids defending the Dad, but it can also lead to kids severing ties to the Dad.

 

I voted with the Pandas. Too complicated for an simple answer.

Edited October 11, 2012 by OrganicAnn

[Catwoman]

 

I would worry that the Mom would be 'telling the truth' in order to get back at the Dad and trying to alienate the kids affection from the Dad. I've seen that happen. The little digs. Ironically it can lead to the kids defending the Dad, but it can also lead to kids severing ties to the Dad.

 

I voted with the Pandas. Too complicated for an simple answer.

 

:iagree:

 

I think there's also a possibility that even a non-vindictive mom would tell her kids the truth, because she might be afraid that if she didn't, the kids might blame her for the divorce, especially if she was the one who tossed Dear Old Dad out to the curb. And she might also want to be sure the kids heard the truth from her and not a potentially "more creative" version of the truth from someone else... like the Dad's girlfriend.

[thebarefootamazon]

I don't think it's a good idea to tell a 7 and an 11 year old that but they might already know. I knew a lot more than my parents shared when they divorced. My mom was shocked when I told her I knew what happened a few years ago.

[ChiMomNP]

No. Infidelity is a filthy, sad, devastation-filled club that none of us should -ever- have to be a member of. Some of us were "gifted" with lifelong membership from our spouses or ex-spouses. I did not tell my son, and I never intend too. We chose to reconcile, but that does not influence my decision on this at all. If I had chosen to divorce him and if he has gone running to one of his several APs, I would have kept my mouth shut about it. Just a personal choice, I do not think it would be right to potentially damage the relationship between my son, my H, and the other woman if things had gone that way. That just wouldn't feel right to me.

[Heidi]

The question isn't, "should I tell my kids their dad had an affair and that is why we divorced"; they already KNOW that. It is "should I tell my kids dad's girlfriend is the culprit?" Right?

 

I'm guessing that you want to tell them because they are going to have a relationship with this woman. She will be stepmom. And you hate her, for good reason, andyou want them to know who they are dealing with. You probably think that if they know, then they will hate her too. That's doubtful. Children have an amazing ability to forgive. From their perspective, they will see a nice stepmom, and a bitter, angry mom. If you tell them, tell them frankly, once, and then let it drop. But don't speak unkindly of her; you will only damage their opinion of you. Maybe not right away. They will believe exactly how you believe because they don't know any better yet. But one day they will know better. You will never have a relationship with that woman, but they will. If it were me, I would do my best to keep the negative comments to myself.

Edited October 11, 2012 by hmsmith
took out the personal info..

[Scarlett]

The question isn't, "should I tell my kids their dad had an affair and that is why we divorced"; they already KNOW that. It is "should I tell my kids dad's girlfriend is the culprit?" Right?

 

I'm guessing that you want to tell them because they are going to have a relationship with this woman. She will be stepmom. And you hate her, for good reason, andyou want them to know who they are dealing with. You probably think that if they know, then they will hate her too. That's doubtful. Children have an amazing ability to forgive. From their perspective, they will see a nice stepmom, and a bitter, angry mom. If you tell them, tell them frankly, once, and then let it drop. But don't speak unkindly of her; you will only damage their opinion of you. Maybe not right away. They will believe exactly how you believe because they don't know any better yet. But one day they will know better. You will never have a relationship with that woman, but they will. If it were me, I would do my best to keep the negative comments to myself.

 

 

Often times people will cheat, divorce and then 'begin dating'....hoping that the cheating relationship will never come to light. My XH would have loved to do that. It is exactly what my current dh's XW did. She has managed to alter history in the minds of their two boys to the point that the oldest one believes my husband treated her badly and she was 'forced to leave'. I believe that is exactly what my XH would have done had I not been truthful with my ds that I discovered an affair and was divorcing him over it.

 

 

It is difficult to put the bitterness aside and stop the negative comments. That is a seperate issue from as you say, telling them one time the truth and then not discussing it anymore. That has not been easy for me, but I have seen many bitter XWs and it is true that kids eventually just don't want to be around it.

 

In the situation I mentioned in the poll, the relationship was apparently hidden for 2 years post divorce and now she (the girlfriend) is about to meet his children. She wants to get off on the right foot with them and is nervous. My contention is a relationship that starts based upon lies is definitely not 'the right foot'. Many people clearly do not agree with that. :001_smile:

[Scarlett]

No. Infidelity is a filthy, sad, devastation-filled club that none of us should -ever- have to be a member of. Some of us were "gifted" with lifelong membership from our spouses or ex-spouses. I did not tell my son, and I never intend too. We chose to reconcile, but that does not influence my decision on this at all. If I had chosen to divorce him and if he has gone running to one of his several APs, I would have kept my mouth shut about it. Just a personal choice, I do not think it would be right to potentially damage the relationship between my son, my H, and the other woman if things had gone that way. That just wouldn't feel right to me.

 

:grouphug: Your right of course...but in my opinion you telling the Truth doesn't do the damage. Your husband did the damage.

[TammyS]

 

 

In the situation I mentioned in the poll, the relationship was apparently hidden for 2 years post divorce and now she (the girlfriend) is about to meet his children. She wants to get off on the right foot with them and is nervous.

 

In a decent society no person in their right mind would want a woman known for sleeping with other people's husbands around anyone's children. Instead, we have this society, where the kids are supposed to develop a relationship with the woman who helped destroy their family. :glare:

 

We really need to bring back criminal adultery charges.

[Rosie_0801]

In the situation I mentioned in the poll, the relationship was apparently hidden for 2 years post divorce and now she (the girlfriend) is about to meet his children. She wants to get off on the right foot with them and is nervous. My contention is a relationship that starts based upon lies is definitely not 'the right foot'. Many people clearly do not agree with that. :001_smile:

 

I don't think anyone is disputing your contention. I think most believe in making the best of the bad situation. I can see reasons to disclose that adultery was the reason for the divorce, but I can't see the positives in disclosing with whom the adultery was committed. Cheating on your spouse doesn't legally make you a bad enough parent that the courts will take away your parental rights so the kids will have to see the girlfriend until they're of an age they can refuse. It won't help anyone if the kids treat her like a homewrecker. It will only make everyone's life more difficult and the constant anger will damage the kids' souls.

 

Rosie

[ChiMomNP]

:grouphug: Your right of course...but in my opinion you telling the Truth doesn't do the damage. Your husband did the damage.

 

Sure. Like I said just a real personal choice. You are absolutely spot on, he did the damage and any and all consequences coming from that were his to deal with. I don't pass any judgement on someone who tells everyone including the kids. I have lived it and I considered billboards, so I completely understand. It was late when I posted and I really should have chosen my words with more care.

 

:grouphug:

[chicagoshannon]

Tell them if you want them hating the girlfriend.

 

This happened with my cousins. My uncle married the other woman. She is sill hated, and they have now been married 20+ years. I only know about it because my cousin told me when I was 9 or so. I didn't like my new aunt or a very long time.

[Laurie4b]

At 7 and 11, I wouldn't sit them down and tell them. But if they asked, I'd be honest. It will probably come up eventually.

I say this as a child of divorceS and remarraiges. I just didn't need to know all the drama when I was younger. But, I wouldn't want my parents to flat our lie to me either.

 

:iagree: The adult who has been wronged by the adultery may have an urge to tell. However, I agree with the above: that is not the kids' burden. If they happen to ask, they should be told but matter of factly, not with innuendo. They are not the judges to be won over to a side. They will make some of those judgments when they are older.

[Laurie4b]

Ok, how about you had to divorce your dh because you discovered he was a cheating husband. Your kids want to know, 'but why! Why are you divorcing our father!!!'

 

In answer to a direct question, I would say, "Because he broke the promises he made when we got married and those promises are important for keeping a marriage together." If pressed, I would answer that he had another girlfriend and when you get married, you promise that your wife/husband will be your only girlfriend/boyfriend forever. But very basic and no more details.

[Heather in Neverland]

I don't think anyone is disputing your contention. I think most believe in making the best of the bad situation. I can see reasons to disclose that adultery was the reason for the divorce, but I can't see the positives in disclosing with whom the adultery was committed. Cheating on your spouse doesn't legally make you a bad enough parent that the courts will take away your parental rights so the kids will have to see the girlfriend until they're of an age they can refuse. It won't help anyone if the kids treat her like a homewrecker. It will only make everyone's life more difficult and the constant anger will damage the kids' souls.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Tammyla]

:iagree: And from my experience of knowing many divorced people, they all seem to tell their children their own version of the truth and the kids (especially the young ones) end of hurting for it. Then later in life realize they were told what the parent wanted them hear. Growing up angry and hating a parent or step-parent isn't something any child deserves.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing your contention. I think most believe in making the best of the bad situation. I can see reasons to disclose that adultery was the reason for the divorce, but I can't see the positives in disclosing with whom the adultery was committed. Cheating on your spouse doesn't legally make you a bad enough parent that the courts will take away your parental rights so the kids will have to see the girlfriend until they're of an age they can refuse. It won't help anyone if the kids treat her like a homewrecker. It will only make everyone's life more difficult and the constant anger will damage the kids' souls.

 

Rosie

[Murphy101]

Tell them if you want them hating the girlfriend.

 

This happened with my cousins. My uncle married the other woman. She is sill hated, and they have now been married 20+ years. I only know about it because my cousin told me when I was 9 or so. I didn't like my new aunt or a very long time.

 

I wouldn't tell my kids to hate anyone. Even under best conditions, I would think it normal for kids to not particularly like step parents for many years.

 

However, I wouldn't blame the mom who told them. I'd blame the parent who made the choice to marry someone their child couldn't stand. That's just beyond my scope of understanding and I think it terribly selfish and foolish. They basically decided they don't care if they are ever close to their kids again.

[Scarlett]

:iagree: And from my experience of knowing many divorced people, they all seem to tell their children their own version of the truth and the kids (especially the young ones) end of hurting for it. Then later in life realize they were told what the parent wanted them hear. Growing up angry and hating a parent or step-parent isn't something any child deserves.

 

I guess people may lie to their kids (version of the Truth) but I told my son the facts. There was no disputing those facts. He was 9 and confronted his dad about those facts. His dad did not deny those facts (as painful as it was for him and as angry as it made him).

 

My son has had some anger at his dad but I've never encouraged my son to hate his dad or even the other woman. I have told him that I have been hurt very badly by the entire mess and that I know I sometimes acted irrationally about it. I expounded to my son that this is the painful truth of what adultery does to people and families and we need to learn lessons so as not to repeat it.

 

3 years down the road my ds is 12 and still loves his father. He continues to express to his father that he doesn't want to be around the girlfriend and as a result his dad has almost completely kept her from my son. He has been around her maybe 8 hours in 18 months. I have encouraged my son to respectfully tell his father how he feels and then to realize that is all he can do and just do his best to get along.

[KarenC]

Kids aren't stupid. If they are 11-12 or older, there's a good chance they already know somethings not right. That's a very hard secret to keep long term. I think they are probably better off telling the truth.

 

Karen

[aggieamy]

I don't think anyone is disputing your contention. I think most believe in making the best of the bad situation. I can see reasons to disclose that adultery was the reason for the divorce, but I can't see the positives in disclosing with whom the adultery was committed. Cheating on your spouse doesn't legally make you a bad enough parent that the courts will take away your parental rights so the kids will have to see the girlfriend until they're of an age they can refuse. It won't help anyone if the kids treat her like a homewrecker. It will only make everyone's life more difficult and the constant anger will damage the kids' souls.

 

Rosie

 

These are wise words.