What are your thoughts about sports at schools?

[regentrude]

I prefer the European method of academics being outside of school.

:confused:

You meant to say the non-academics outside of school, right? Because in Europe, school is for academics :)

[kb44]

No access here, anyway!

[kb44]

Here's what I think would work for most of the citizens in a community:

 

 

1. No tax-payer supported, school-based sports at all. Instead, the schools would focus on academics :D and do a great job with that.

2. The tax dollars the community would have spent on school-based sports could be channeled into (a) municipal parks; (b) a community recreation center; and © community fields/tracks/hiking trails, for use by all tax-paying township citizens. Existing school-based sports facilities would revert to the ownership of the township; there would be no connection of the facilities to the school itself. School students would not utilize the facility as students, but as township citizens.

3. This could result in the academically-focused "school day" becoming shorter, but with every student encouraged (and permitted) to be involved in an after school recreation club.

4. The entire community would work to shift the focus away from competitive, team-based sports with their heavy dependency on facilities, large fields & pools, faculty/coaches, equipment, uniforms, insurance, transportation, parking lots, etc., etc., etc. Instead, the community would encourage life-time fitness for all its members, by providing access to fitness opportunities for all its members -- e.g., hiking trails & clubs, walking tracks & clubs (indoor/outdoor), bike trails & clubs, running trails & clubs, and so on.

5. All citizens would be encouraged to make use of their community's resources to promote life-long fitness. Instead of school sports teams purchasing and laundering expensive uniforms, citizens would wear and launder their own clothes! Instead of school districts building pools for the use of only their students, communities could build parks and trails and fields for the use of all their tax-paying citizens. Wouldn't it be great if, rather than pay for a pricey high school football team, any of our citizens could check out a bicycle from the township "rec center?" Wouldn't it be great if, rather than pay for an expensive high school swim team, any of our citizens could jog at the indoor/outdoor track in any season?

That's what I see as a better... and fairer... and healthier use of tax-payer dollars. AND, doing it would help the overall school budget, when we don't have to pay for all those P.E. teachers/coaches and their benefits. :tongue_smilie:

 

:thumbup1:

[SailorMom]

All this talk about what a waste of tax money school sports are made me need to chime in again.

My son's high school pays for a coach for the teams and maybe an assistant as well. They also teach classes during the day - phys ed stuff -to the non-sport kids. The fields, the referees, any other assistants, gas for the buses, paying for the bus drivers, uniforms, etc., etc., is all paid for by fundraising in the community.

Here - in a smaller town - there is a huge turnout for high school games of all kinds. It's very social. Our high school has a huge highly thought of marching band which probably wouldn't exist without basketball and football.

Our community does indeed also have a "rec center", a gorgeous park system, disc golf, tennis courts, bike trails, etc., which has been in no way undermined by high school sports.

Lastly, some kids really aren't all that great at school. They hate it. Want to drop out. But - they have to have a C-average or better and good attendance to play the sport they enjoy. I think we need to offer more than just book-learning as part of an education, and team sports fit that niche very well.

[dtsmamtj]

We have access here, but each sport costs you $200 per child per sport. I think there is a cap, but really?? - $200.00 to use tax payer facilities??? This doesn't include equipment necessary - if you play LaCross you have to purchase everything for your child. We can't participate in the private school sports and there is very limited community sports past 8th grade (and only a few prior to 8th grade). Also, there I believe there is manditory fundraising for the sports here at least for some sports.

[SailorMom]

We have access here, but each sport costs you $200 per child per sport. I think there is a cap, but really?? - $200.00 to use tax payer facilities??? This doesn't include equipment necessary - if you play LaCross you have to purchase everything for your child. We can't participate in the private school sports and there is very limited community sports past 8th grade (and only a few prior to 8th grade). Also, there I believe there is manditory fundraising for the sports here at least for some sports.

 

This is because most sports have lost almost all of their funding. So has the marching band at our high school. You say taxpayer facilities, but, the kids enrolled in school have to pay this as well. At least here they do. Band is $500 per kid, football was about $200 (not including the equipment).

[Photo Ninja]

Hsers can not participate on school sports teams here (or music, etc.) unless they enroll as a full time student at the school, so a not hsing anymore. we never felt a loss because there are other options. I'm sure it varies by area, but here about the only sports that a student needs a school for are football and baseball, and those only at the high school level. Other sports are available in the community. Swimmers swim USS year round, but stop for part of the spring to swim for their high school team. My dc swam and competed year round at a high level, no school needed. Soccer players play year round on club teams, but take time off from that to play on their high school team, but really, their college scholarships come from their club team achievements more than from high school team achievements.

 

So unless the sport is baseball or football, a school team is not needed here, even at a high school level because it all currently exists. What's different is that club teams directly cost the families money, but schools charge a lot for participating on sports teams anyway, so it may not make much difference. I can see this being a possible problem in rural communities, but then, those schools probably don't offer all the team sports anyway. A town can support the local community teams just as much as they do individual school teams. It is the same kids.

 

I know that some students stay in school because of participating on sports, and I don't know how to remediate that problem, but I wouldn't mind removing team competitive sports from schools and letting the community and club teams be the alternative, as long as the schools stay out of it completely.

[Lori D.]

In our state, with many school districts (not all) homeschoolers do have access to participate fully in public school sports all the way up through high school. Both of our DSs played JV, and then Varsity for the nearby public high school tennis team.

 

 

A "camel nose under the tent"?

 

Hardly. If anything, the experience pushed them *farther* away from *ever* wanting to attend public school.

 

DSs hated the immaturity (and most of their teammates were 2-3 years OLDER than DSs when they started in 9th grade). They hated all the swearing. And that there seemed to be only 3 topics of conversation (s*x, drugs, more s*x), which DSs felt had been thoroughly covered after just 5 minutes into day 1 of the season. They also did not like having to be tied to the school's schedule for practices, or having to ride the bus for 1.5 to 2.5 hours to get to schools of similar division ranking, since if you are 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A or 5A, you can only play schools with the same division ranking. And they didn't like that each year they had a completely different teacher as a coach (only 1 of whom was a good coach who knew tennis), because the school was always scrambling for money and didn't know whether there would even *be* a tennis team until the last minute.

 

 

Also a big "NOT my experience" to the

"shekels lead to shackles"

idea, as cutesily alliterative as that phrase may be.

 

While we did have to "report grades" in the form of turning in a transcript every 4.5 weeks during the season -- ALL the students had to do that, to prove they were academically eligible to play sports. I never once had any administrator, counselor, teacher or other person connected with the school EVER contact me about the transcript -- in fact, I was the one who had to remember to bring it in every 4.5 weeks, because no one ever called me about it. Frankly, I doubt they even looked at it other than to verify that the GPA was at/above the minimum for athletes to play.

 

And like all the students participating, we had to pay the identical fee for participating, and had to provide the clothing and equipment from our own pocket (as did every family). What we "got" from the public funding and from our sports fee payment was a teacher willing to show up for the few extra dollars of pay that "coaches" get; a T-shirt with the school name on it to wear to the matches as the "team uniform"; and a school bus to take the team to the away matches.

 

 

While there were definitely good and worthwhile things about participating for the 3 years we were involved, and it was enjoyable to watch them play their matches, when younger DS was a 12th grader, he opted out of public school sports. And neither DS EVER wanted to attend public high school for classes or because they thought there was a "fun side" to experience that they were missing out on.

 

I will add, we were very fortunate to be able to have the "fun" in other ways -- homeschool Student Council participation; church Youth Group socials; Youth & Gov't participation; etc. Our community also has a lot of teen programs for homeschoolers to enjoy, too (theater, music, speech/debate teams, etc.) But even if we hadn't had all that, I still doubt DSs would have felt any "lure" by the public school here...

 

 

Just our 2 cents worth! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Lori D.

[Dmmetler]

Hsers can not participate on school sports teams here (or music, etc.) unless they enroll as a full time student at the school, so a not hsing anymore. we never felt a loss because there are other options. I'm sure it varies by area, but here about the only sports that a student needs a school for are football and baseball, and those only at the high school level. Other sports are available in the community. Swimmers swim USS year round, but stop for part of the spring to swim for their high school team. My dc swam and competed year round at a high level, no school needed. Soccer players play year round on club teams, but take time off from that to play on their high school team, but really, their college scholarships come from their club team achievements more than from high school team achievements.

 

So unless the sport is baseball or football, a school team is not needed here, even at a high school level because it all currently exists. What's different is that club teams directly cost the families money, but schools charge a lot for participating on sports teams anyway, so it may not make much difference. I can see this being a possible problem in rural communities, but then, those schools probably don't offer all the team sports anyway. A town can support the local community teams just as much as they do individual school teams. It is the same kids.

 

I know that some students stay in school because of participating on sports, and I don't know how to remediate that problem, but I wouldn't mind removing team competitive sports from schools and letting the community and club teams be the alternative, as long as the schools stay out of it completely.

 

It seems like the impact of "going to school only to play sports" could be achieved with community sports simply by requiring academic enrollment to continue participating. My DD cheers for a competitive-rec program that allows enrollment until the end of the competition season after the child's 18th birthday, so long as they're enrolled in school. Kids bring in some form of proof of enrollment in school each season (we're with a cover school and I can just print one off our family account page-but I know other homeschoolers who don't use a cover school and they just write a note and it's good. I assume PS kids get something from the school office).

 

I don't see students going to school only to play sports as something that cannot be matched in the private sector-provided private sector coaches are willing to bench a kid who doesn't meet the standards-and from what I've seen in my community, school coaches haven't done so well on that note so far.

[beezus]

It's not valid here in Wyoming, and honestly, this kind of alarmist thinking irritates me. My oldest dd has participated on public school swim teams for 5 years, and there have never been any "strings" attached. Everyone pays a fee to the high school ($25.00), and homeschoolers pay an additional fee of $100.00 to the state which is necessary because we do not attend the school. All this was communicated ahead of time. It is worth it to me to have access. There are no testing requirements.

 

For my dd, the "fun" side theory did not apply. She is perfectly happy to be on the team, but school at home. Her interaction with team-mates has actually reinforced her desire to homeschool because she sees that her education is better, and she will be better-prepared for college. She really dislikes the drama of the high school scene. This is just my dd. Ymmv.

 

 

Same where we live, except the participation fees are higher. I had to confirm dd was passing her courses, but no testing was required, nor did anybody ask any questions about our curriculum.

 

The "fun" of public school did not apply to my dd either. She did take one science class freshman year and was appalled by how badly her classmates behaved. She would much rather accomplish academic things at home than in public school.

[KungFuPanda]

 

As for the article in the OP, I thought it was sensationalist and over-the-top. It sounds like something H.S.D.L.A. would write, to be honest.

 

:lol: You're Supposed to think it, not say it!

 

Personally, I don't think sports should be associated with schools, period. So many subjects (mostly the arts) that are being cut, yet there is always money for sports. I know some sports pull in money (football), but a lot of money has to go into them too.

 

 

I dare you to g

o to Texas and say that!

 

 

It seems like the impact of "going to school only to play sports" could be achieved with community sports simply by requiring academic enrollment to continue participating.

 

How do you make it fair for students in schools where a C average is required to play sports? There ARE students who keep their grades up to maintain eligibility and there ARE schools that do not simply give athletes free grades and will bench their D students.

 

Of course, I'm in Maryland, so none of this really applies to me. I just like to feel included in the conversation. :D

[regentrude]

How do you make it fair for students in schools where a C average is required to play sports? There ARE students who keep their grades up to maintain eligibility and there ARE schools that do not simply give athletes free grades and will bench their D students.

 

 

I completely fail to see why athletic participation has to be tied to academic performance at all... they should just not attach it to the school, period. Then the GPA would be a moot point because it is none of the school's business.

 

One poster argued that school sports are a way for students to excel who can not excel academically... that is a contradiction. Let sports be people's private activity after school, and allow equal access for everybody, irrespective of grades.

[ChristineW]

All this talk about what a waste of tax money school sports are made me need to chime in again.

My son's high school pays for a coach for the teams and maybe an assistant as well. They also teach classes during the day - phys ed stuff -to the non-sport kids. The fields, the referees, any other assistants, gas for the buses, paying for the bus drivers, uniforms, etc., etc., is all paid for by fundraising in the community.

Here - in a smaller town - there is a huge turnout for high school games of all kinds. It's very social. Our high school has a huge highly thought of marching band which probably wouldn't exist without basketball and football.

Our community does indeed also have a "rec center", a gorgeous park system, disc golf, tennis courts, bike trails, etc., which has been in no way undermined by high school sports.

Lastly, some kids really aren't all that great at school. They hate it. Want to drop out. But - they have to have a C-average or better and good attendance to play the sport they enjoy. I think we need to offer more than just book-learning as part of an education, and team sports fit that niche very well.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a program that improved graduation rates, led to better academic performance, reduced teen pregnancy and depression, and lowered the lifetime risk of obesity? Wait a minute there is...its called sports participation. Sports and physical education are a legitimate part of a school's mission. We are more than our brains; our bodies need training too.

 

I've never lived in a place where the track and tennis courts aren't available to the public when not in use by the school team. Land is at a premium so the club and adult leagues use the school facilities. The beautiful high school aquatic center is open to everyone for lap swim and many kids take swim lessons there on weekends and during the summer. A majority of the funding for the sports facilities comes through private donors and not taxpayer dollars. in fact, the local education foundation pays the salaries of the elementary level PE teachers, not the school district.

 

My kids are little. I don't know about access; until middle school everything is through little league, pop warner or the community sports association.

[DianeW88]

My dd participated in our local high school's drill team (dance team) her senior year. That's all she did. They never bugged us about her schoolwork at all. They acknowledged she was a homeschooler all the time (in public performances) and said how proud they were to have her there. She was the best dancer on the team and that caused some initial resentment among the girls, as she was always featured prominently in every dance and was asked to perform solos, but they got over it fairly quickly.

 

On the whole, it was a positive experience for her, and only confirmed her belief that public high school was a big, fat, waste of time and that kids learned next to nothing while there.

[Ellie]

It's no longer being debated here. Until a couple of years ago, participation in sports or electives was at the discretion of the district; now it is explicitly not allowed.

 

When I made the choice to homeschool, I chose to not partake of the school system. I don't really see how it is now scandalous that the schools are saying we can't have it both ways.

WS. :iagree:

[Stayseeliz]

All this talk about what a waste of tax money school sports are made me need to chime in again.

My son's high school pays for a coach for the teams and maybe an assistant as well. They also teach classes during the day - phys ed stuff -to the non-sport kids. The fields, the referees, any other assistants, gas for the buses, paying for the bus drivers, uniforms, etc., etc., is all paid for by fundraising in the community.

Here - in a smaller town - there is a huge turnout for high school games of all kinds. It's very social. Our high school has a huge highly thought of marching band which probably wouldn't exist without basketball and football.

Our community does indeed also have a "rec center", a gorgeous park system, disc golf, tennis courts, bike trails, etc., which has been in no way undermined by high school sports.

Lastly, some kids really aren't all that great at school. They hate it. Want to drop out. But - they have to have a C-average or better and good attendance to play the sport they enjoy. I think we need to offer more than just book-learning as part of an education, and team sports fit that niche very well.

 

:iagree: This is how I feel about team sports, band, etc too. Yes school needs to be academic in nature but I think a lot of the extras keep kids motivated and excited about school. All the cheerleaders, football players, etc are always fundraising so I don't think it's all taxpayer money. I think sports add a lot to school. I think team sports teach people a lot too!

[KungFuPanda]

I completely fail to see why athletic participation has to be tied to academic performance at all... they should just not attach it to the school, period. Then the GPA would be a moot point because it is none of the school's business.

 

One poster argued that school sports are a way for students to excel who can not excel academically... that is a contradiction. Let sports be people's private activity after school, and allow equal access for everybody, irrespective of grades.

 

There IS both. Grades are not a factor if you play community sports. They ARE taken into consideration if you represent the school on their teams. I think that in places/countries where it's possible to get around without a car, participation in community sports seems fairly simple. However, when you live in a more isolated place where the schools are the social hub of the community, life is just different.

 

I guess they could get around the grade thing by requiring passing HSA scores of every participant, but homeschoolers might balk at taking the tests.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a program that improved graduation rates, led to better academic performance, reduced teen pregnancy and depression, and lowered the lifetime risk of obesity? Wait a minute there is...its called sports participation. Sports and physical education are a legitimate part of a school's mission. We are more than our brains; our bodies need training too.

 

I think this is a valid point. What good is it to excel in academics only to keel over at 40 due to (preventable) poor health? Perhaps it's because I've been sheltered and have never actually seen an illiterate jock given free grades, but I think it's GOOD for public schools to provide a well rounded education. I also see sports as an extension of physical education. I see marching band as an extension of music class. Why SHOULDN'T schools enable kids to pursue their interests? There is time in the day for both and you never know what will be useful later, so learn all you can. Right?

[Amy in NH]

Public schools in NH are required to allow homeschoolers access to sports programs. We have used them for multiple sports with no problems at all. Due to NHIAA rules we do have to report grades for the high school students; for most courses I just give a "Pass".

[mom2scouts]

The only reason I do not agree with this is because I feel like participation in sports should not only be available to families who can pay out of pocket.

 

It is expensive!

Many of our local public schools have "pay to play" and students already pay (one local school charges $150 per sport). That doesn't even include the additional things like specialized equipment (soccer cleats and goalie gloves for my son), the $20 "requested" for the concession stand, tickets for the awards banquet, and on and on.

[TengoFive]

There's no access to sports allowed here, due to the high school sports association. It's disappointing for us, because my kids would love to swim for the high school team. There's much great exposure to college scouts if you're swimming on a high school team. I have one that absolutely would get a sports scholarship if he could swim for the school.

On the other hand, other activities are allowed at the principal's discretion. He's great at allowing homeschoolers to come in for whichever classes they want. Many take advantage of choir, band, and art classes.

[Thea]

We have access and my ds just started playing soccer for the high school. He has to meet all the academic requirements that the ps school students do and adhere to the same code of conduct and follow the same rules.

 

There has not been a problem in the past, at all, with homeschoolers participating -- in fact, the high school track coach homeschools his children. And they have all (so far) run track for the local high school.

[Frances]

Here homeschoolers can choose to participate in anything they want at the public schools. Although we only used orchestra for a few years, we did get some backlash from both sides. Some homeschoolers expressed thoughts similar to those in the original post. While a very pro public school co-worker told me that we shouldn't be able to pick and choose what we use at the public schools, we should have to take the good with the bad.

 

I'm supportive of every family choosing the best educational/extracurricular options for each of their children no matter the source. And I feel fortunate to live in a state that allows this.

[snowbeltmom]

While a very pro public school co-worker told me that we shouldn't be able to pick and choose what we use at the public schools, we should have to take the good with the bad.

 

I don't agree with your co-workers thinking. As long as our tax dollars are supporting the public schools, we should be able to pick and choose. Why should our kids have to take "the bad" in order to participate in the after-school programs?

[snowbeltmom]

I'm supportive of every family choosing the best educational/extracurricular options for each of their children no matter the source. And I feel fortunate to live in a state that allows this.

:iagree:

 

I wish my state had the same policy. In addition to not requiring access to the public school after school programs, homeschoolers are not even permitted to participate in the Post Secondary Enrollment Program. Traditionally school high school students (both public and private) are able to take classes at the community college free of charge; homeschoolers have to pay full-freight.:glare: