Why is this so upsetting to me?

[dakarimom5]

I just watched the local news, which I never do. One of the stories is that a local school system is going "paperless" next year. They will be giving every student laptops or Ipads in place of the textbooks.

 

I don't know why this upsets me but it does. We don't even live in that city. I just keep pictuing all these kindergarteners "writing" their names using a keyboard instead of a pencil. Is it just me or does this bother you too? And what do you see happening with this going on in our school systems?

[SunnyDays]

I'm certainly not anti technology. But when it takes the place of books, pencils, and papers nearly entirely, it seems overkill, especially for younger students.

[kalanamak]

I just watched the local news, which I never do. One of the stories is that a local school system is going "paperless" next year. They will be giving every student laptops or Ipads in place of the textbooks.

 

I don't know why this upsets me but it does. We don't even live in that city. I just keep pictuing all these kindergarteners "writing" their names using a keyboard instead of a pencil. Is it just me or does this bother you too? And what do you see happening with this going on in our school systems?

 

Have to wonder who's making a buck on this one.

[Liz CA]

So.. learning how to type will replace penmanship? What happens when said student is later supposed to handwrite a note? What will it do to sticky notes? They will all be out of business in short order!

[Momma_Bear]

I'm certainly not anti technology. But when it takes the place of books, pencils, and papers nearly entirely, it seems overkill, especially for younger students.

 

:iagree: I feel the same way.

[Farrar]

It probably doesn't mean paperless in terms of writing for the early grades. Like you said, it probably just means using devices to hold all the textbooks. Though it might really mean paperless by high school.

 

If there were unlimited funds and it was great for the environment, then I'd say, hooray! Beyond the need to practice those small motor skills and keep art going, it would be fine. I don't have any sentimental attachment to paper and pen work.

 

Except... there's not unlimited funds and it's a HUGE expense for schools and much more expensive than books. Nor is it environmentally great. All that equipment being produced uses more energy (by a lot) than making the textbooks or using the paper. And maintaining it is difficult. I think schools have gotten better at it, but when I worked in ps, the tech was both omnipresent and mostly useless - broken, outdated by the time you got it, cumbersome and mostly unworkable.

[Elizabeth in MN]

It'll be a great relief for the backs of children. It's been almost twenty years and I still remember how heavy my backpack was.

[kiana]

What I'm wondering is how on earth elementary school children are supposed to take care of laptops or ipads? I know when I was a kid it would have been dropped and stepped on inside of a week.

[tex-mex]

What I'm wondering is how on earth elementary school children are supposed to take care of laptops or ipads? I know when I was a kid it would have been dropped and stepped on inside of a week.

:iagree:

 

And I highly suspect the iPads will have to be refurbished as the years go on due to wear and tear. Plus, no one is talking about the site license the school is paying for the cost of the textbooks. C'mon. That is expensive. And what will they do if the iPads become too old to keep up with technology in 3-4 years? I suspect the textbook company and Apple are laughing all the way to the bank.

[sbgrace]

It's happening around here (midwest--I know where my sister taught in KY converted and our schools were supposed to (Indiana) though I don't know if it happened).

 

The big thing emphasized here is that it allows for individualized to the student lessons via interactive online options. I don't think it means no paper or books in the classrooms--just no textbooks issued to students. I don't know if the schools that are doing it are coming out financially ahead in actuality or not (textbook adoption costs vs. technology costs). In our school system I don't think there were going to be online texts. Teachers would use resources gathered online and elsewhere to make their own plans to meet the academic standards. I don't know how that works in certain subjects but no teachers I talked to seemed concerned (I'm a former teacher in that school system). Most of the talk was about individualizing and student specific pacing.

Edited August 3, 2012 by sbgrace

[Sahamamama]

There was a case in Pennsylvania where the schools gave students laptops, then spied on a student in the privacy of his own home. If I had a student in ps, the laptop would not come into the house.

 

OTOH, when my nephew was in middle school, his books literally weighed more than he did. If he needed to bring all his books home for the weekend to study, he couldn't lift the bag. In fact, his textbooks were so large and heavy, it was not possible to fit them all simultaneously into his backpack. :001_huh: After much disputing and fussing, the teachers agreed to sign out a home copy of each textbook for him, so he had one set in school and another set at home. Of course, they couldn't do that for every student (which was their argument against doing it at all). :tongue_smilie:I think it's disingenuous for an "academic institution" to pretend it cares that students study, and then assign a total volume of textbooks that most of the teachers, let alone 60 pound 6th graders, couldn't carry home daily. I think it sends a message -- "We don't really expect you to take your books home" -- when it's impossible for a student with a rigorous course load to do so.

 

All those books and more would fit nicely on an electronic device, and any sized student could carry them. You could study at a moment's notice, changing from text to text. When your brain becomes saturated with, say, French verbs, then pull up your science text and study chemistry.

 

I think I like the idea, but not for primary (K-2) students. Third grade and up would be fine, if it's only for the texts students are to read, and not for written assignments.

 

FWIW, my children don't use any electronics for anything, other than the 2nd grader doing math drill on the computer from time to time. But by 3rd grade, she could handle a Kindle. It would be a nice way to have more than one book along for the ride. HTH.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sahamamama

[nono]

Plus, no one is talking about the site license the school is paying for the cost of the textbooks. C'mon. That is expensive. And what will they do if the iPads become too old to keep up with technology in 3-4 years? I suspect the textbook company and Apple are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

How does Apple's site licensing for education work these days? I focused briefly on the Education market when I worked in technology, and the site licenses for education back then were at a steep discount v. the remaining industries. The thought process was it was "seeding" the next generation of consumers to develop a preference for one's product (which is true as long as the product is actually good).

[Ann]

I imagine this is for grades 3+, especially middle school and high school. I know that here there is a big push for kids to use technology. Also many kids are being assigned laptops to help overcome learning disabilities. Students that are waiting to be assigned one need to show that they are using technology already. It could help with that aspect of technology.

[Pippen]

I think part of why it raises concerns is simply because it's so different from how we grew up. I'm hearing the term "digital natives" being used to describe the generations that are growing up in the digital age, and that they literally process information differently.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/living-faster/digital-natives/what-makes-a-digital-native.html?play

 

What I'm wondering is how on earth elementary school children are supposed to take care of laptops or ipads? I know when I was a kid it would have been dropped and stepped on inside of a week.

 

Our district is starting the switchover this year with 6th graders. I've heard from teachers who've taught in districts with laptops before that overall the kids do a pretty good job with them.

 

Our district was talking about leasing laptops--I'm not sure if they decided on that or not.

 

I agree about the heaviness of the books. The high school biology book used here is heavier than mine was in college.

 

I have my doubts, but my concerns are more about repair/replacment and professional development, because when money gets tight those take a hit. Already teachers may wait a few weeks for replacement bulbs for the Smartboards.

[bettyandbob]

longterm, even dealing with the licensing, electronic textbooks are significantly cheaper. This is the number 1 reason.

 

They can also be updated quickly -- you do not need to wait 10 years simply because new texts were adopted last year and are still in good physical condition.

 

Finally, the logistics of dealing physical textbooks is eliminated. No large amount space simply devoted to storage. The time the teachers spend in each class checking condition, handing out, taking back, checking condition, and giving receipts for each in every text is gone. When a new student registers and all the texts have been assign the school has to try to get the book sent from the districts central storage, which means the student has no text for one or two weeks. With electronic texts, when students schedules are changed or new students come into school the counselor can activate all the texts during student registration. For students with disabilities like dyslexia or significant vision deficits, there is no lag time in getting books that can be read aloud because that can be built into software--ordering recorded books can take weeks to obtain.

 

And yes it is a significant weight off the shoulders of students.

[Mom0012]

It probably doesn't mean paperless in terms of writing for the early grades. Like you said, it probably just means using devices to hold all the textbooks. Though it might really mean paperless by high school.

 

If there were unlimited funds and it was great for the environment, then I'd say, hooray! Beyond the need to practice those small motor skills and keep art going, it would be fine. I don't have any sentimental attachment to paper and pen work.

 

Except... there's not unlimited funds and it's a HUGE expense for schools and much more expensive than books. Nor is it environmentally great. All that equipment being produced uses more energy (by a lot) than making the textbooks or using the paper. And maintaining it is difficult. I think schools have gotten better at it, but when I worked in ps, the tech was both omnipresent and mostly useless - broken, outdated by the time you got it, cumbersome and mostly unworkable.

 

The whole idea of replacing books with tablets upsets me to begin with. But, the school systems by us are trying to sell people on the idea of getting tablets for every student with the rationale that textbooks get outdated so quickly and it would save money. I can't see how it saves any money at all. It's not like they won't have to buy updates from the textbook suppliers just because they are in digital form.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

longterm, even dealing with the licensing, electronic textbooks are significantly cheaper. This is the number 1 reason.

 

They can also be updated quickly -- you do not need to wait 10 years simply because new texts were adopted last year and are still in good physical condition.

 

Finally, the logistics of dealing physical textbooks is eliminated. No large amount space simply devoted to storage. The time the teachers spend in each class checking condition, handing out, taking back, checking condition, and giving receipts for each in every text is gone. When a new student registers and all the texts have been assign the school has to try to get the book sent from the districts central storage, which means the student has no text for one or two weeks. With electronic texts, when students schedules are changed or new students come into school the counselor can activate all the texts during student registration. For students with disabilities like dyslexia or significant vision deficits, there is no lag time in getting books that can be read aloud because that can be built into software--ordering recorded books can take weeks to obtain.

 

And yes it is a significant weight off the shoulders of students.

 

Honestly, even if this is true, I still hate the idea of it. I also wonder how long it will remain cheaper? Textbooks companies are not going to want to cut their profits and if all the schools switch to electronic data, then won't the prices rise on that?

 

I was in our library earlier this week looking at all the lovely shelves of books and wondering how long it would be before they are gone forever.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

I think part of why it raises concerns is simply because it's so different from how we grew up. I'm hearing the term "digital natives" being used to describe the generations that are growing up in the digital age, and that they literally process information differently.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/living-faster/digital-natives/what-makes-a-digital-native.html?play

 

 

 

Our district is starting the switchover this year with 6th graders. I've heard from teachers who've taught in districts with laptops before that overall the kids do a pretty good job with them.

 

Our district was talking about leasing laptops--I'm not sure if they decided on that or not.

 

I agree about the heaviness of the books. The high school biology book used here is heavier than mine was in college.

 

I have my doubts, but my concerns are more about repair/replacment and professional development, because when money gets tight those take a hit. Already teachers may wait a few weeks for replacement bulbs for the Smartboards.

 

This idea does scare me. My kids my be growing up in the digital age but they are not surrounded by technology anywhere near the degree that the kids in school are. I keep praying that textbooks will at least be around until they finish college, because I think they will be at a real disadvantage if they only have digital texts. Honestly, I think all students will be. IMO, it's important to be able to flip through a chapter and mentally organize the information rather than just seeing it a page at a time. I've been using computers since my teens and I still can't organize information from a website visually the way that I can with a hard copy.

 

Heck, I just printed out a couple of long threads on advice for parents of 7th/8th graders from the wtm logic board, so that I could relax while reading it and make notes and highlight what is important to me. How do you do that with a kindle?

 

Lisa

[Parrothead]

:iagree:

 

And I highly suspect the iPads will have to be refurbished as the years go on due to wear and tear. Plus, no one is talking about the site license the school is paying for the cost of the textbooks. C'mon. That is expensive. And what will they do if the iPads become too old to keep up with technology in 3-4 years? I suspect the textbook company and Apple are laughing all the way to the bank.

:iagree: And while it takes a long time to grow trees to make paper, the junk tech going into landfills is way harder on the environment than paper.

[In the Rain]

The district next to us is working towards that to some degree. I have friends (husband and wife) who teach and have kids there. They have mentioned two problems that I haven't seen mentioned yet in this thread.

 

The first is when helping their dd with her math homework on the computer. There are problems to solve, but for some reason they can't just "flip back a few pages" to the instruction part to see how she was taught. If she doesn't understand, they have to figure out how to explain it on their own, which she tells them is all wrong. :tongue_smilie:

 

The husband does IT for the school district, which uses electronic whiteboards. He says it is a nightmare. They have to keep IT people in each school because when a system goes down, sometimes *no* learning can take place. There are no blackboards, and for whatever reason the teachers can't present lessons in alternative ways, so they start losing 30 minutes instructional time, 60 minutes instructional time, etc. :001_huh: He said sometimes they just sit around waiting. :glare: FWIW, they use this in kindergarten too.

[dakarimom5]

The school system here bought laptops for all the 5th graders last year. If the child took it home it was a $200+ fee. If it was broken or lost, it was a $400+ fee. I just think that with the state of our economy and our education system we should be concerned with teaching our children how to think not how to use Google.

 

If you are in the grocery store and your smart phone dies how are you going to figure the unit price? I love technology, but new is not always better.

[Cinder]

It'll be a great relief for the backs of children. It's been almost twenty years and I still remember how heavy my backpack was.

 

In the late 90's we lived in a school district that bought 2 sets of books for each child--one for school, one for home. I don't know how long they were able to keep that up; we moved the next year.

[bettyandbob]

To the pp who thinks text book publishers won't go for this.

 

I don't think the textbook companies are losing anything on going paperless. Paper is actually a significant expense. Getting the paper, printing, shipping, reprinting and reshipping 100,000 copies when a significant error is found, ect. So, it saves money for them too.

 

Textbook resellers, like Follett, will lose.

[nertsmommy]

The school system here bought laptops for all the 5th graders last year. If the child took it home it was a $200+ fee. If it was broken or lost, it was a $400+ fee.

 

This is what I thought of first. I know I wouldn't be able to afford that. Most people in my area wouldn't be able to afford to replace it if it broke. A textbook is a bit cheaper to replace if it is lost or ruined.

[jelbe5]

What frustrates me about this is the discrepancy among school districts. My cousin and his family live in a very well to do suburb. His dd was given an Apple laptop when she entered 6th grade (by the district). We live in a very poor district and basic supplies are hard for the district to scrounge up. Yet our taxes are very similar. :glare:

[bettyandbob]

What frustrates me about this is the discrepancy among school districts. My cousin and his family live in a very well to do suburb. His dd was given an Apple laptop when she entered 6th grade (by the district). We live in a very poor district and basic supplies are hard for the district to scrounge up. Yet our taxes are very similar. :glare:

 

 

The district probably collects more in business taxes per capita as a result the extra dollars can be allocated to schools and social services.

[fairfarmhand]

I just watched the local news, which I never do. One of the stories is that a local school system is going "paperless" next year. They will be giving every student laptops or Ipads in place of the textbooks.

 

I don't know why this upsets me but it does. We don't even live in that city. I just keep pictuing all these kindergarteners "writing" their names using a keyboard instead of a pencil. Is it just me or does this bother you too? And what do you see happening with this going on in our school systems?

I know why. Because with this mindset, you don't go school supply shopping.

 

Which I LOVE!

 

And doodling in the margins...and decorating and color coordinating your supplies. That is so important right?

[ChrissySC]

I would have to ask why Apple?

 

You can get a tablet with Nook/Kindle apps that is less than 100. Really, you would hand my sixth grader a computer and expect it not to get dropped or knocked off the desk? I dropped the school laptop the last time and have to replace the hard drive again! TG for disk imaging.

 

I just can't imagine how they can do this effectively ... well, dd didn't really have textbooks even in the third grade - let alone homework.

[Pippen]

Finally, the logistics of dealing physical textbooks is eliminated. No large amount space simply devoted to storage. The time the teachers spend in each class checking condition, handing out, taking back, checking condition, and giving receipts for each in every text is gone. .

 

I subbed all last year in ps and believe me, the time dealing with textbooks is minimal compared to the time teachers spend dealing with laptops and other technologies in the classroom. A lot of minutes are chewed up loading software, helping kids with a computer problem, dealing with glitches, etc.

 

Schools are going to laptops because that's the direction the world is going. ebook sales have surpassed hardcover book sales.

http://mashable.com/2012/06/17/ebook-hardcover-sales/

[ccmom]

I know what you mean. I have many reasons for agreeing with you, but I'll refrain. :)

[dakarimom5]

 

 

Big problem I see is internet access. The high school is so paranoid about inappropriate internet use that internet access is difficult and slow as the school refuses to go modern with wi-fi. The result is that the rich get richer...they have internet capable cell phones and usually have their math or science hw done before the poor kids can get the pass, go to the library, sign in to a desktop, and log on. With the school library open only during school hours, many of the poor have to go to the public library to finish their hw, or give up their lunch hour. So, I see the issuing of netbooks/ipads as a positive that levels the playing field.if they come with all the access needed.

 

The school system is putting wi-fi in the buses so kids can do homework while on the bus. My children have access to technology and the internet but they also have access to a pencil and a piece of paper too. I just keep asking myself what the school system could do that would shock me more than this.