Spoiled: relative or are we unable to see it in ourselves/our children? (long)

[Audrey]

Preface: I've been very slowly going through my parents' photos, letters and mementos. I can't bear to do it much even though Mom and Dad have been dead 18 and 7 years, respectively. I ran across a letter from my mother to my father when he was on active duty somewhere in SE Asia (in the Navy). It talks about how she is worried that my brother and I are spoiled. The letter says, in part:

 

"Audrey has 2 Barbies and now my sister has given her 2 more. I've crocheted clothes for her Barbies and now she asks me if she can have a sparkly gold dress for the new ones. J has more clothes than any toddler should have. He has more little trucks than I can count anymore. Please don't have any more sent. I think neither of them appreciate their things. They have too much! I fear they are spoiled now. I fear they will only demand to be more spoiled."

 

 

Now... I remember my childhood pretty well and we lived a rather spartan existence on NCO pay, although we did always seem to have what I would call a nice house to live in -- because Dad was a CPO, Senior CPO and Master CPO during my lifetime while he was still in. So, we weren't scraping, but we had few extras.

 

I was really surprised to read the letter. There's more to the spoiled stuff than the above, but that sums up much of the concern/sentiment Mom had about it. I just never thought of us as spoiled at all. Mom and Dad were very frugal and taught us to be as well. We heard "no, you can't have..." far more than we ever heard "yes, you can have..."

 

I wonder if it is a relative issue. Their childhoods had far fewer things in it and far more responsibilities than ours did. I know that is true.

 

But... I also wonder if people really see within themselves or their own family that they were spoiled. I see kids all the time that I think are very overindulged/spoiled. I will admit that I think my own ds is spoiled, but he rarely asks for anything and isn't much into things. It is usually dh and I who give him things. We are the spoilers, even if ds is not acting spoiled. It is extremely rare, though, that I hear others admit their kids are spoiled. I know I feel a little ashamed, so it's not that I expect others to share that with me. I just wonder if they see it themselves or not. It's not exactly something you can come right out and ask IRL, KWIM?

 

All that ramble is to ask... what do you think about the concept of being spoiled? Do you see it around you? Do you see it within you? Within your own children? Do you think it is relative, or do you have an objective criteria for what constitutes spoiled?

 

I'd just like to hear others' thoughts on this. :bigear:

[Mommyof4ks]

I think spoiled is an attitude, and it is common no matter how much people have. People who have a lot may not be spoiled while those with little can be.

 

My dd has so much stuff, and she knows that if she asks for something we will try to make it happen, but she is not spoiled. She is very giving to a fault at times, and she has such a heart for others. My middle child on the other hand is obsessed with stuff and getting more stuff. He is spoiled in my opinion due to his attitude of stuff over people.

 

Just my .02.

[kewb]

Spoiled is an attitude that is not related to how much stuff you have.

[Rebel Yell]

Well, I think of "spoiled" as "rotten" as in spoiled or rotten food. Having nice things, or wanting more/different things, isn't necessarily a sign of being spoiled.

 

I was accused of being spoiled (easy term to use- I was an only child:glare:) when my parents bought me new bedroom furniture that I neither wanted nor liked. THEY needed/wanted new furniture. THEY chose to pick out a whole new bedroom set for me. I LOVED my old set. When they brought it home and asked if I liked it, I told them no, that I liked another set we looked at better. (I was young- 4th-grade?) I got a long raging lecture about how I was ungrateful and they sacrificed their new bedroom so I could have one... when I suggested they take mine and I could use theirs... well, that didn't end well.

 

Don't even ask me how it went when they bought me a cedar/hope chest for highschool graduation that matched my bedroom. I BEGGED for a different style, but it "had to match my furniture."

 

But I still don't think that made me spoiled. But I'm going to guess that all of the popular parenting advice of their day (my parents' and yours) would have talked a lot about spoiling- both with material things and comforting/holding a baby.

[edelweiss]

My children are definitely spoiled. However, they are not spoiled brats. ;) I think that is an important distinction. Their father and I are well able to buy them their wants, as well as their needs, and we choose to indulge many of them. They are very fortunate little girls... and they well know it. I absolutely refuse to tolerate brattiness or a sense of entitlement, so I've been quick to nip our generosity in the bud the second that they have come to expect anything (which hasn't happened for several years). They have grown to be gracious and thankful for things they receive and very generous with others. So, I have no problem with them being "spoiled". They still hear "no" plenty, but we enjoy indulging them when we feel it is appropriate.

[kewb]

Unless you have a festering and rotten attitude about being able to buy what you want then you are not spoiled. Perhaps the people calling you spoiled are envious. Having the ability to purchase what you want when you want is many things-a blessing, a relief, lucky, the benefits of hard work, etc. It is not something rotted and gross.

[TranquilMind]

Spoiled is an attitude that is not related to how much stuff you have.

I think of "spoiled" as an entitlement mentality. It doesn't matter what the person actually has; it matters only that he or she thinks he deserves the best of everything and what he does have is not enough.

[TranquilMind]

So I almost don't think the term spoiled usually ever applies to children. They are in the situation they are in through no doing of their own.

 

Maybe not little children. Older ones need to get some perspective.

[SKL]

Yes, I think it's relative. And while I do think my kids are spoiled, I don't think they are rotten - yet.

 

The times I'm least proud of my parenting are those times when my five-year-olds complain about blessings. "What are we having for dinner?" "__." "Aw, I don't want that." Ugh. I do correct and sometimes punish this type of attitude, but it's not like I can show them what deprivation is, because we are surrounded by people who think they aren't spoiled enough. :glare:

 

I've always given my kids work to do, and they have to do physical labor if they want to buy a nice thing. However, they already have so many things (mostly from well-meaning aunties), there isn't much motivation to work up a sweat IYKWIM.

 

I have some trips planned to help my kids understand how most of the world lives. Of course, just being able to fly somewhere is a huge privilege that I never had as a kid. But the days of simple living are pretty much gone, and there isn't too much we can do about it.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I think the amount spent on a child does not determine if they are spoiled. A child that hears "no" and pitches a fit is "spoiled".

[fairfarmhand]

spoiled is not stuff or attention.

 

Spoiled is self-centeredness.

 

Case in point:

 

My mother was born to my grandparents after their 40th birthdays. They did not marry till late in life, figured they;d never have children. Mom came along and was their golden child. She had everything that she wanted. They treasured and cherished her.

 

However, my mother was the most unselfish woman I have ever met. She loved the Lord with her whole heart and poured out her life in service of others. Despite living with cancer for 12 years, marrying a preacher and living in poverty trying to raise 3 kids on next to nothing, having church people treat her and my dad like dirt....

 

I never...not a single time. Remember her complaining. She was always joyful and cheerful. Life was not all about her.

 

And from talking to people who knew her in childhood, apparently she was always like that. I only hope that my children will see me in the same light. If I can take hold of a fraction of her contentment, I will be happy.

[SKL]

A child that hears "no" and pitches a fit is "spoiled".

 

Depending on the age, I'd say a [young] child who hears "no," pitches a fit, AND gets what he wants that way is "spoiled."

 

I also feel my dd acts "spoiled" when she think she can ignore me. :angry:

 

Someone mentioned materialistic kids. I think that's more a sign of insecurity. I have a child like that. It should be a no-brainer to deprive her of things she obsesses over, yet when I do that, she just gets that much more insecure and materialistic. Personality comes into play. (So do physical addictions/food reactions etc.) My other kid of the same age isn't like that at all.

[3browneyedboys4me]

Maybe spoiled is an attitude of sorts? A child or adult that is given more than they need (over indulged) and still wanting more and more, unsatisfied with their belongings. It seems your mom was referring to the fact that you had more than you needed (possibly over indulged) b/c in her mind, you didn't seem appreciative.

 

I think it was a common expression of that time. I doubt seriously your mom meant is as it probably sounded. Their can be some guilt for having 'more than' you might need.

[Liz CA]

It's a perspective thing. My grandma lived through the war and to her everyone who had food everyday without wondering where it came from and a roof over their heads that was not imminently threatened by advancing forces, was living a life of luxury.

My mother grew up in post war times when there was food again and some measure of security but nowhere near the "stuff" that we have now.

 

I grew up with always enough and had a very happy childhood but of course there were those who had even more. I worked hard to introduce my son to people or cultures who lived on far less than we did. We started sponsoring a child in a third world country, explored their economic system, etc., volunteered in places where we were privileged to assist the less fortunate - all with the hopes (on my part) that he would realize how blessed we all are. I think some of it stuck.

[Dory]

I grew up in a very abusive home and yet I would've called myself spoiled. I think of children as spoiled when they do not appreciate what they have, and they have never looked beyond themselves. It's normal for very small children to be egocentric, it's not healthy for them to stay that way. I grew up in a world where if I wanted something materialistic, it was given to me. If I wanted to do something, all I had to do was ask my dad. I didn't appreciate people or things. But then I grew up watching my parents and older siblings use people and things for their own pleasure, so I did the same. That to me, is what spoiled looks like.

[jujsky]

Spoiled is an attitude that is not related to how much stuff you have.

 

:iagree: It's completely an attitude. I see spoiled more an attitude of entitlement than anything else. My kids have more than some, less than others. I would consider one somewhat spoiled because he does have a sense of entitlement, and the other not spoiled because she doesn't.

[Catwoman]

Spoiled is an attitude that is not related to how much stuff you have.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[justLisa]

Depending on the age, I'd say a [young] child who hears "no," pitches a fit, AND gets what he wants that way is "spoiled."

 

 

I agree with that, but then again that's the parents problem.

 

We don't really do the punishment/reward thing. We actually get our kids stuff before ourselves. It's not like we are huge shoppers or anything, but I like to get them things. Hobby stuff, stuff to keep busy in a productive way, etc. DD loves clothes and fashion so I buy her what I can without getting ridiculous. And she spends her own money on extras

 

It is interesting to see: I know of families who are VERY strict, kids basically have to earn every single thing they have. Some of them are very nice kids, some of them are mean and nasty. I know of families who get their kids everything in the world. Some of them are very nice and some of them are mean and nasty. It comes down the the parents and how things are given. I like getting my kids things. I really think they value their stuff and I would never consider them spoiled.

[Galatea]

spoiled is not stuff or attention.

 

Spoiled is self-centeredness.

 

I agree with this. I think children who are given many toys, clothes, etc., are indulged, not spoiled. "Spoiled" means that they're turned from good to bad. I think it's entirely possible to be blessed with material things but not become a "bad kid".

[-M-]

But... I also wonder if people really see within themselves or their own family that they were spoiled. I see kids all the time that I think are very overindulged/spoiled. I will admit that I think my own ds is spoiled, but he rarely asks for anything and isn't much into things. It is usually dh and I who give him things. We are the spoilers, even if ds is not acting spoiled. It is extremely rare, though, that I hear others admit their kids are spoiled. I know I feel a little ashamed, so it's not that I expect others to share that with me. I just wonder if they see it themselves or not. It's not exactly something you can come right out and ask IRL, KWIM?

 

All that ramble is to ask... what do you think about the concept of being spoiled? Do you see it around you? Do you see it within you? Within your own children? Do you think it is relative, or do you have an objective criteria for what constitutes spoiled?

 

I'd just like to hear others' thoughts on this. :bigear:

 

Many respondents are saying what came to mind when I read your questions: "Spoiled" is far different than, for example, "indulged." At its most basic, "spoiled" implies that something is inherently wrong, where "indulged" implies a sort of benign abundance.

 

My own childhood was, as you say, spartan -- in my case, both in possessions and in love and positive attention, so I confess to trying to create the opposite in my own home. I've always craved a sense of warmth, abundance, and security -- indulgence -- even in the lean years. Sometimes my efforts bordered on the faintly foolish. (The gigantic My Little Pony bin that went to Goodwill when we moved springs to mind.) But mostly I think it was the good stuff: cool adventures, good books, warm brownies on cold afternoons, quality art supplies, capable teachers, etc.

 

I know what spoiled looks and sounds like, and my daughters are the opposite of spoiled. They are kind, generous, grateful, good people -- in spite of my efforts to provide every single everything I can. (*wry grin*)

 

Post-apocalyptic fiction is popular here, and one of our favorite "What if" games involves describing what we'd miss in a world made by hand. That these girls get so quickly to leisure time, toilet paper, regular showers, clean water, and grocery stores supports my idea that while they have been and will continue to be well indulged, they are not spoiled. Would a spoiled child begin to understand the end of the world as we know it? (*wry grin*)

 

Audrey, sending you a(n awkward, side arm) hug as you continue to grieve the loss of your parents.

[jewellsmommy]

I think spoiled is an attitude, and it is common no matter how much people have. People who have a lot may not be spoiled while those with little can be.

 

My dd has so much stuff, and she knows that if she asks for something we will try to make it happen, but she is not spoiled. She is very giving to a fault at times, and she has such a heart for others. My middle child on the other hand is obsessed with stuff and getting more stuff. He is spoiled in my opinion due to his attitude of stuff over people.

 

Just my .02.

 

:iagree: The attitude of I need more, I want more, and I can't be satisfied if I don't have more is what I define as being spoiled. It goes hand in hand with the entitlement problem.

[IsabelC]

Sounds to me like your mom was a wonderful caring parent, trying to do her best with the kids while their dad was off serving overseas. Parents almost always worry about their kids, but that doesn't mean there was actually anything major to worry about.

 

I think that 'spoilt' is commonly used as a sort of general insult, inconsistently applied (as in 'my kids are indulged, her kids are spoilt') and also sometimes used by parents who feel bad that they can't give their kids as much as somebody else does. But it's also used to express frustration at kids behaving like kids (ie with a lack of forethought and impulse control). Hence there is no widely accepted Spoiled Standard (like 3 Barbies=OK but 4 Barbies=spoilt).

[Audrey]

Sounds to me like your mom was a wonderful caring parent, trying to do her best with the kids while their dad was off serving overseas. Parents almost always worry about their kids, but that doesn't mean there was actually anything major to worry about.

 

I think that 'spoilt' is commonly used as a sort of general insult, inconsistently applied (as in 'my kids are indulged, her kids are spoilt') and also sometimes used by parents who feel bad that they can't give their kids as much as somebody else does. But it's also used to express frustration at kids behaving like kids (ie with a lack of forethought and impulse control). Hence there is no widely accepted Spoiled Standard (like 3 Barbies=OK but 4 Barbies=spoilt).

 

 

I think this is true. It seems most are saying spoiled is an insult and is an attitude, where I was not thinking that at all. I understand spoiled as being the same as overindulged. Now, spoiled brat -- THAT is an insult and an attitude for sure!

 

I'm not insulted at the contents of the letter because of that. At the date of it, I would have been not quite 5 years old and my brother not yet 3. So, I do get that it likely had to do with her frustration at us being little kids acting like little kids, but it did make me wonder what others' perceptions of 'spoiled' are, and I appreciate all of the feedback.

[Audrey]

Many respondents are saying what came to mind when I read your questions: "Spoiled" is far different than, for example, "indulged." At its most basic, "spoiled" implies that something is inherently wrong, where "indulged" implies a sort of benign abundance.

 

My own childhood was, as you say, spartan -- in my case, both in possessions and in love and positive attention, so I confess to trying to create the opposite in my own home. I've always craved a sense of warmth, abundance, and security -- indulgence -- even in the lean years. Sometimes my efforts bordered on the faintly foolish. (The gigantic My Little Pony bin that went to Goodwill when we moved springs to mind.) But mostly I think it was the good stuff: cool adventures, good books, warm brownies on cold afternoons, quality art supplies, capable teachers, etc.

 

I know what spoiled looks and sounds like, and my daughters are the opposite of spoiled. They are kind, generous, grateful, good people -- in spite of my efforts to provide every single everything I can. (*wry grin*)

 

Post-apocalyptic fiction is popular here, and one of our favorite "What if" games involves describing what we'd miss in a world made by hand. That these girls get so quickly to leisure time, toilet paper, regular showers, clean water, and grocery stores supports my idea that while they have been and will continue to be well indulged, they are not spoiled. Would a spoiled child begin to understand the end of the world as we know it? (*wry grin*)

 

Audrey, sending you a(n awkward, side arm) hug as you continue to grieve the loss of your parents.

 

 

Thank you. :001_smile:

[Flowing Brook]

I agree spoiled is an attitude not based on your possessions

 

I remember growing up my dad was gambling away all the money we had and physically, mentally and emotionally abusing my mother. We went days with eating just popcorn because there was no food in the house. My mom finally left. For months we just scraped by. Finally she got a good job and a nice place to stay. At school my new friend's mom did nails. I thought they were soo cool. I wanted some in the worst way. My mom scraped enough money together to have mine and my sister's done. After the lady finished she told my mom we were spoiled. No parent would get their fourteen and sixteen year old dd's nails done. I remember feeling so guilty and ashamed. I knew mom was making a sacrifice to make me happy and I greatly appreciated it. I don't think that one indulgence made spoiled but thanks to the lady I felt dirty.

[SKL]

When I say my kids are spoiled, I mean they get away with stuff though they know better. I am always going back and forth on how strict I should be. I'm definitely stricter than many parents, but a relative pushover compared to parents of my generation and earlier.

 

I see my kids prancing around where my mom would have expected me to walk, using language I dislike, acting like their ears don't work. Perhaps I should feel ashamed and shame my kids, but I usually don't. I correct them, but I don't always see improvement, and I don't usually enforce with an iron hand.

 

I think priorities have changed a lot. When I was a kid, young kids didn't have a lot of responsibility other than to respect their elders, exhibit self-control, help with some chores, and learn at school. Today their responsibilities also include homework and numerous extracurriculars, as well as observing a lot more rules about limits on their movement, politically correct speech, etc. It can be easy to forget to focus on respect, which is so basic we don't often consciously address it. It's easier to tell ourselves that the kids will grow out of their foolishness or something. And who knows, maybe they will.

[Scarlett]

First I think that is just the sweetest letter....so touching how concerned she is about the character being formed in her children.

 

My family has a saying, 'you can spoil them just don't spoil them to meanness.' :) Again, a relative saying....but the point is that chidren should be indulged as long as it doesn't make them selfish/mean/entitled/demanding.

 

I think most kids have too much stuff. Especially in this country. I am currently packing up and moving to another state and I can PROMISE you my son has too much stuff. He makes money, buys himself stuff. He has divorced parents and his dad buys him stuff. My parents buy him stuff. It is just everywhere.

 

I would like to have much less stuff. It is a goal for my new house. Our belongings are going in storage (on our property) and when I bring stuff into the house I want it to 1)have a place and 2) have a purpose or 3) be something I LOVE.