6packofun Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes, I'm serious. Voskamp's book is garbage wrapped in pretty language, but the substance is foul, IMO. Sorry, I don't imagine "making love to God" is a Biblical truth. This is another book where people are taken in because it sounds so wonderful and pretty and good--after all, how could being thankful be bad?? But did you READ the *theology* underneath it at all? That's what I'm talking about. I think Voskamp has good intentions but is a showboat. I've read about the dramatics in her speaking engagements, too, and I don't see that as truthful. I see it as drawing attention to herself and not to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I have come to the conclusion that The Pearls' are living and teaching a very twisted form of Christian BDSM. This is their own fantasy, being "sanctified" and taught to others. Hey, it is one thing if you are willing partner in that lifestyle, but to force others into it using guilt, shame, and fear....and God is abominable.:glare: I thought that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 nestof3: I was around it (patriarchy) for most of my marriage, and though it did not have direct results, it did affect us. There is an expectation set up for couples, and those under that teaching seem to flounder around trying to figure out how to apply it because if you don't, you feel guilt. Man's headship can also easily be the last word when things do get hard. I just need more voice than that. And you should have more voice than that, and any man who doesn't understand that or is hung up on "being in charge" has completely missed what leading a family is about as well as what Jesus said about it. He told the apostles they were not to be like those lording it over others, but the highest ranked one actually is the one taking the bottom place, washing the feet of the others. Jesus never once went around saying, "I am the Lord around here and what I say goes!" One naturally respects and wants to listen to those who actually have authority, rather than those who take authority. I really don't know how to express this well. Sometimes you are in a room and everyone naturally gathers around one person, the one with the goods, the one who has something to share. I was at a baby shower like this once. Everyone just naturally deferred to and listened to one woman's stories, not because she demanded the place of attention but because she was just so darn knowledgeable and impressive, as a very spiritual Mom of 10 kids. It's like that. You are right that the changing tends to always begin with the women in these circles. Perhaps it's because women are the ones who tend to reach out or buy the self-help books. Women are reminded of all the things to do to make a man want to come home. Women are encouraged to make the home a haven as though they have been home all day doing nothing. I like a clean, uncluttered home, and I see value in it. Yes, I want my home to be a haven, but I want my husband to be a man I look forward to having come home -- not a critic or person waiting to be served the rest of the night. Yeah. Women probably buy the books, though there are many, many men who probably need them more! In college, I read a book that encouraged women to apply makeup before praying in the morning because you should give God the same respect as your husband, and no woman would go before her husband not made up. The author rose very early, showered and applied her makeup before he ever got out of bed. LOL. Jesus - and my husband - accept me just the way I am! I cannot imagine doing this. I can however imagine a particular woman thinking this was important for HER to do for some reasons involving her past or something, but not as a general directive. I personally like to look nice every day. I wear makeup, partly because I have facial flushing, and partly because I like myself better that way. I've been having fun lately buying jewelry and cute outfits. I spent years wearing dresses only and years with allergies to earrings, so I am enjoying this. I still don't dress provocatively but in a pleasant way. I do think both husband and wife desire their spouse to care about their appearances, but the stress is always put on the woman. My husband looks better now than when we married 23 years ago, because he has determined he is not going down the health road of his family of origin. Rock hard body, loads of energy and all that. I have a standard to live up to, if I choose to do so. Since I'd like to live longer, I should follow him in this! When have you ever read this oppressive stuff in a "how to be a better husband" book? Is there such a book? From the pulpit, I've heard on more than one occasion, "If the barn needs painting, paint it" in reference to whether women should be permitted to wear makeup. I have read things of value in Christian marriage books aimed at husbands and wives alike. It just seems, though, that the books aimed at women have more anger, control and wacky ideas put in them. Marriage books for men primarily aim to teach a man to be satisfied sexually with one's wife despite the fact that she may have gained a few pounds and to remember date nights/flowers. They focus more on keeping husbands from doing the things their natural selves want to do while the self-help books for women seem to give a huge list of all the things women should be doing. Hmm. Interesting. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissamomof5 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I haven't read through the pages of replies. I read the book years ago. Loved it. Really got a lot from it. However, I was very concerned with some of the words she used in the book that I thought were not okay. I also felt like she was doing a lot of gossiping about people and speaking of people in a way that was not okay. So, I guess I got some "nuggets" from it, but it wasn't necessarily a whole food that should be consumed. I put it on the shelf. Fast forward to this year. I got the book back out to re-read. I have also now learned of the controversy around the Pearls and read up a little about it. I really don't know what to think about them. My spirit feels grieved and upset with them and I can't really explain it, but I knew I had to throw the book away. I just couldn't re-read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 nestof3:How on earth will you know what sort of parent your partner will be before having children? You pay attention to how he responds to the nieces and nephews. And kids at Target. And kids anywhere you go. How do you assess for aging changing people? Well, there is no perfect test, of course. But take a look at lifestyle habits to see how well he takes care of himself. How is his family of origin about health matters. So many are NOT inevitable, as they are a result of choices and environmental factors. Some hit you out of left field, of course. You can't always know. You can only analyze the evidence you have. I have seen people become increasingly destructive with money in an effort to act against their unhappiness. I have seen people who were normal with money become addicted to shopping in order to provide a temporary high. I have seen women who once couldn't keep their hands off their husbands loathe his hands on her. Why? That's the question to ask here. Why did it happen? Nothing happens in a vacuum. The woman was saying that since my husband was my head and had a direct line with God, he would know whether I should have the procedure. I could trust in my husband's knowing, and I would be protected because I was trusting my husband. I have a direct line too. So does everyone who wants one. But if you and your husband come to agreement without discussing it, you can feel pretty good about it. We always do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) nt Edited July 17, 2012 by WordGirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes, I'm serious. Voskamp's book is garbage wrapped in pretty language, but the substance is foul, IMO. Sorry, I don't imagine "making love to God" is a Biblical truth. This is another book where people are taken in because it sounds so wonderful and pretty and good--after all, how could being thankful be bad?? But did you READ the *theology* underneath it at all? That's what I'm talking about. I think Voskamp has good intentions but is a showboat. I've read about the dramatics in her speaking engagements, too, and I don't see that as truthful. I see it as drawing attention to herself and not to God. What dramatics at speaking engagements? I can see how more conservative (ahem, uptight) people would be very uncomfortable with some aspects of her book. She does seem to be overly dramatic, but I think that is just her personality- she notices and appreciates the details of everything. As time goes on, I become more of a believer in pantheism. I'm not sure how anyone could read the Bible and not be pantheistic :confused::confused: Clearly God created everything, and only in Him do we move, exist, have our being. The world is literally IN Him, He is in everything. That is very comforting to me, so those aspects of her book do not make me uncomfortable at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't understand this notion that people don't change. I have changed in fairly major ways since I married. So has my husband. I think we've changed to become better in most ways. It can happen the other way. that's even assuming no addiction, mental illness, etc. People can become better, and they can become worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 There are plenty of people who read the Bible and do not reach the conclusion of pantheism (or panentheism). I can see how one would think it sounds nice and feels good emotionally so accept it as truth, especially if they are not grounded in Scriptures that refute it. If you have the time, this is an excellent commentary on the book: http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2012/04/commentary-on-ann-voskamps-one-thousand.html Here is another review: http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2012/03/romantic-panentheism-review-of-one.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't understand this notion that people don't change. I have changed in fairly major ways since I married. So has my husband. I think we've changed to become better in most ways. It can happen the other way. that's even assuming no addiction, mental illness, etc. People can become better, and they can become worse. Same here, especially as we married early, but really it can happen at any age. Many men go through mid life changes, us women change as well with our hormones, childbearing, menopause etc. Sometimes who you are and what you believe changes, dh and are were both agnostic fairly liberal and now are Catholic and more conservative (although I'm still liberal in some ways- I was a social work major afterall). Thankfully we went through those changes together and both headed in the same direction. My friend was a party girl when she got married and is now uber conservative, skirt wearing, headcovering almost hermit. Another girlfriend was a party girl as well but is now very conservative religious. We grow and mature but unfortunately not everyone does. (Both of them married in their late 20s, whereas I married at 20) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry, I can't stand solasisters. I won't give them the pleasure of a hit on their blog. :glare: No one person holds the truth of what Scripture means and ultra conservative, judgmental types like solasisters just make me sick. That's the problem when everyone is interpreting it for themselves- everyone thinks their way is the ONLY RIGHT AND TRUE way. Bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I have read that book myself. And while I agree with the basic idea: "wives are to help (submit to) their husbands". I also agree with this review. She is harsh in her judgment of other women. And does not give good counsel. If it was written by another women it would have been a great book. :iagree: Her tone throughout was always irksome to me, and I couldn't understand how a supposed staunch Christian woman who took her Titus 2 role so seriously could in turn be so incredibly mean and judgemental which is completely against how the bible says we must be. I don't recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Same here, especially as we married early, but really it can happen at any age. Many men go through mid life changes, us women change as well with our hormones, childbearing, menopause etc. Sometimes who you are and what you believe changes, dh and are were both agnostic fairly liberal and now are Catholic and more conservative (although I'm still liberal in some ways- I was a social work major afterall). Thankfully we went through those changes together and both headed in the same direction. My friend was a party girl when she got married and is now uber conservative, skirt wearing, headcovering almost hermit. Another girlfriend was a party girl as well but is now very conservative religious. We grow and mature but unfortunately not everyone does. (Both of them married in their late 20s, whereas I married at 20) Sure, evolution in beliefs occurs. But character generally doesn't change, I'd contend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't understand this notion that people don't change. I have changed in fairly major ways since I married. So has my husband. I think we've changed to become better in most ways. It can happen the other way. that's even assuming no addiction, mental illness, etc. People can become better, and they can become worse. :iagree: I'm a very different person from who I was 10 years ago, or even 5. I respond to kids differently. I handle money differently. My relationship with my mom is different. My body is different. My wife is different too. We have grown together, and that is good, but it can happen the other way too. People sometimes change in unpredictable ways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 :iagree: I'm a very different person from who I was 10 years ago, or even 5. I respond to kids differently. I handle money differently. My relationship with my mom is different. My body is different. My wife is different too. We have grown together, and that is good, but it can happen the other way too. People sometimes change in unpredictable ways! Bunny trail alert...I'm curious. You keep mentioning your "wife" (as opposed to "Significant Other" or "partner" or some other designation), so I was wondering if you lived in a state that recognizes same sex marriage as a legal marriage? I know, I know....detour! Just curious if this is a term one would use even if your state doesn't recognize it (like, ironically here, the Pearl kids, who are not legally married under state law, as I recall, because they refuse to submit to the authority of the state for a religious designation) or you live in a state that does recognize this marriage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I have read this book, it sits on my shelf at this moment. I have such mixed feelings about it, because it truly changed my marriage for the better. It changed me for the better, yet.. I also agree with so much of what the reviewer claims. She does seem so angry and resentful towards the women that I think she's aiming to help. I guess it might just have been what I needed at the time, but at this point in my life, I see it totally differently. :iagree: You said that so much better than I would have.. so I'm just going to agree with you :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't understand this notion that people don't change. I have changed in fairly major ways since I married. So has my husband. I think we've changed to become better in most ways. It can happen the other way. that's even assuming no addiction, mental illness, etc. People can become better, and they can become worse. :iagree: It's absolutely an ridiculous notion that everything that a person will ever become is there from the beginning if you are simply looking hard enough. It's the same old blame-the-victim mentality. If a man turned out abusive or whatever, it's the woman's fault for not foreseeing this, and the woman's fault for provoking him and the woman's fault for staying with him, but by golly, it's not the man's fault for hitting her. It's all very negative and hateful toward women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 :iagree: It's absolutely an ridiculous notion that everything that a person will ever become is there from the beginning if you are simply looking hard enough. It's the same old blame-the-victim mentality. If a man turned out abusive or whatever, it's the woman's fault for not foreseeing this, and the woman's fault for provoking him and the woman's fault for staying with him, but by golly, it's not the man's fault for hitting her. It's all very negative and hateful toward women. No, this is not it at all. Not "blame the victim". More like "avoid becoming the victim" by any means possible. Maybe it isn't possible, but that doesn't mean you don't pay attention to the road signs along the way. Very few things ever happen without any danger signs whatsoever in relationships. Almost anyone will say that they noticed that he or she did (fill in the blank) but assumed it didn't mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Bunny trail alert...I'm curious. You keep mentioning your "wife" (as opposed to "Significant Other" or "partner" or some other designation), so I was wondering if you lived in a state that recognizes same sex marriage as a legal marriage? I know, I know....detour! Just curious if this is a term one would use even if your state doesn't recognize it (like, ironically here, the Pearl kids, who are not legally married under state law, as I recall, because they refuse to submit to the authority of the state for a religious designation) or you live in a state that does recognize this marriage? We are legally married in our state. Our first anniversary is next week. I usually used "partner" before we married, but I know many others who use husband/wife even if they do not have legal status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 We are legally married in our state. Our first anniversary is next week. I usually used "partner" before we married, but I know many others who use husband/wife even if they do not have legal status. Ok thanks. I wondered how that worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfamilygal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 One of my biggest problems with the Pearls is that they advocate FEAR based living. Don't homeschool, wear long hair and submit to your husband in every way and YOU ARE A BLASPHEMER ON THE ROAD TO HELL! Give me a freaking break. It may be their "style" to be plain-spoken, but around here, we have a word for those who insult others and call names ("dumb cluck, hillbilly, etc") and that word is "rude." They cannot have a reasonable discourse about their teachings without forcasting ****ation for those who disagree. My husband met Mr Pearl and I cannot believe he was civil (he is public school and Mr. Pearl is well know for his rant about how the whole public school system is full of atheist, sodomite socialists. Which is funny, as my husband is a Christian.) That is fear, folks. As a believer, I am NOT called to parenting/marriage/life based on fear. Reasonable people lay out their opinions and invite discourse. Pedantic, power-hungry, domineering wankers pontificate and **** those who disagree. This book and TTUAC wrecked our home. I cannot even begin to fathom the "eat the straw, spit out the hay" philosophy some have towards them. At some point, the "hay" becomes such vile, condemning poison that it is just not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfamilygal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 :iagree: Her tone throughout was always irksome to me, and I couldn't understand how a supposed staunch Christian woman who took her Titus 2 role so seriously could in turn be so incredibly mean and judgemental which is completely against how the bible says we must be. I don't recommend it. QFT! I'm pretty sure one of Jesus' main points is that we should be kind, gentle and loving. I certainly have not read that in any Pearl book. The spirit there is harshness and judgment. And the ones about kids? Oh my. My MIL wants to know why I don't hit Leah Claire with plumbing line or a glue stick. Because she is freaking baby (22 months) and is acting in an age appropriate way. Good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfamilygal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Bunny trail alert...I'm curious. You keep mentioning your "wife" (as opposed to "Significant Other" or "partner" or some other designation), so I was wondering if you lived in a state that recognizes same sex marriage as a legal marriage? I know, I know....detour! Just curious if this is a term one would use even if your state doesn't recognize it (like, ironically here, the Pearl kids, who are not legally married under state law, as I recall, because they refuse to submit to the authority of the state for a religious designation) or you live in a state that does recognize this marriage? Actually, it's worse than that. The Pearls wouldn't let their daughters get marriage licenses because it would "link them to sodomites" if/when Tennessee approves gay marriage. WTH? Guess I shouldn't drive either, because gays drive? GRRR. Such disgusting hatred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 No, this is not it at all. Not "blame the victim". More like "avoid becoming the victim" by any means possible. Maybe it isn't possible, but that doesn't mean you don't pay attention to the road signs along the way. Very few things ever happen without any danger signs whatsoever in relationships. Almost anyone will say that they noticed that he or she did (fill in the blank) but assumed it didn't mean anything. You're talking about two different things. Obviously some people are bad news and one shouldn't marry them. But if someone is married to someone who is very troubled, that doesn't mean that that person always was obviously troubled -- unless you define "signs of trouble" so broadly that no one is marriage material. It's entirely different to see something in hindsight. Say John turns out to have developed a pornography addiction. Mary says, in retrospect, he spent an awful lot of time on the computer. He stayed up late at night. Yes, but lots of us spend time on the computer and stay up late; Should our spouses _just know_ that we are addicted to pornography? People whose children are abused CVS often say that in retrospect, their child had this or that rash that was suspicious, and wet his bed. Sure, but have you ever had a kid who was prone to diaper rash or bed-wetting? Lots of us have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Reading that review made me sick to my stomach, I can't even imagine reading the book. Actually, that is one reason you should read it. Don't buy it. Borrow it from the library or something. Read it and think about it critically. It is good to read for yourself exactly what the Pearls are spewing because there really are people out there who believe their brand of crazy is worthwhile. I like to know from whence people are coming. Having read the Pearls' books gives me a whole new understanding of some people I have encountered IRL and online. Forewarned is forearmed, knowledge is power, know thy enemy and etcetera, etcetera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) You're talking about two different things. Obviously some people are bad news and one shouldn't marry them. But if someone is married to someone who is very troubled, that doesn't mean that that person always was obviously troubled -- unless you define "signs of trouble" so broadly that no one is marriage material. It's entirely different to see something in hindsight. Say John turns out to have developed a pornography addiction. Mary says, in retrospect, he spent an awful lot of time on the computer. He stayed up late at night. Yes, but lots of us spend time on the computer and stay up late; Should our spouses _just know_ that we are addicted to pornography? I lived this. I was not co-dependent, in denial, or anything else. The only "sign" - for 10 years - was a lack of engagement. It was a lack of engagement at all levels, not just in the bedroom. But my husband had a decade or more of covering before we ever met. We went round and round about it. I even demanded he see a therapist, and he came home mumbling about her saying he was under a lot of stress and needed an outlet. Little did either of us know his stress was caused BY the (EXTENSIVE) "outlets" he was pursuing behind my back. I found the tip of the proverbial iceberg quite by accident, and found more and more horror over several months. I can honestly say that my husband HAS changed. His character has changed from someone who betrayed and disrespected me literally every day, who sat in front of a screen, oblivious, while our life went on around him, who took notice of nothing, to someone who is engaged, respectful, loving, involved, who takes care of himself and each one of us... And if anyone thinks it was my silence and submission that opened his eyes, well I'll give that person the benefit of the doubt and assume they have a crack habit. The only thing that saved him from being thrown, bodily, into the street was his submission to my authority, until I was comfortable that he could rudder his own boat. I'm not sure, two years later, that we've actually reached that place, but our marriage is so exponentially better that any twinges I have are few and far between. So unquestioning submission? I call bullsh!t. Whatever nutso flag I fly on any given day, I am still the captain of this boat because the (assumed competent and properly vetted) guy at the helm was heading straight for the rocks. He may have been untied and let out of the hold, might even enjoy a cocktail on deck, but I'm not turning over the wheel. (wow. I'm very nautical this evening.) (note: this information has been shared before, with his permission. While it obviously reflects poorly on him, it is not a bash. I respect him very much for all that he has done to repair our relationship and turn our marriage into something amazing. I could not have done it myself - in fact, failed multiple times before it all came to light - and I make no attempt to diminish the huge undertaking on his part, making changes in himself, in addition to making them in our relationship.) Edited July 18, 2012 by MyCrazyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (note: this information has been shared before, with his permission. While it obviously reflects poorly on him, it is not a bash. I respect him very much for all that he has done to repair our relationship and turn our marriage into something amazing. I could not have done it myself - in fact, failed multiple times before it all came to light - and I make no attempt to diminish the huge undertaking on his part, making changes in himself, in addition to making them in our relationship.) :001_smile: Hugs to you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 One of my biggest problems with the Pearls is that they advocate FEAR based living. That is fear, folks. As a believer, I am NOT called to parenting/marriage/life based on fear. :iagree::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (note: this information has been shared before, with his permission. While it obviously reflects poorly on him, it is not a bash. I respect him very much for all that he has done to repair our relationship and turn our marriage into something amazing. I could not have done it myself - in fact, failed multiple times before it all came to light - and I make no attempt to diminish the huge undertaking on his part, making changes in himself, in addition to making them in our relationship.) It's a very positive post about your husband, I think. , "In the place where baalei teshuva stand, even the perfectly righteous cannot stand" -- it is harder to return to a righteous way of living than never to have strayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Was the cat adversely affected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I so disagree with this. My mom's first husband didn't hit her when they were dating (all through high school) or get into any fights at all. She said he was one of the most gentle people. It wasn't long after they married that he thought it was his right as her husband to hit her. She is not to blame, at all, that she didn't suspect he was capable of such violence. It's absolutely ridiculous (and harmful) to state that women should see it and just aren't paying attention. Yeah, my EX told me he deliberately hid his temper from me when we dated, as well as hid his true sexuality. Golly, guess I should have seen both coming. *smacking forehead* I was slapped with the same mentality by a few "perfect" women at church during my divorce. The "you should have known!" crap. Let's just say after all that, I had a few less friends by my own choosing. The abuse dynamic is far more insidious than leopards with spots. It is not simple, or easy, to identify abusers ~ especially the non physical kind. A-MEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sure, evolution in beliefs occurs. But character generally doesn't change, I'd contend. Many of the basics that we believed are right and wrong have changed. Our expectations of ourselves and each other have drastically changed. If had been only one of us it would have been a very, very hard road as many of those changes are things that are on the both of us, ie how our marriage is lived and how to raise the children and how to live as a family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It sickens me that young wives are reading that book and think it's biblically and emotionally sound. :iagree: Yes, that the Pearls unequivocally claim their formulas for living to be both biblical and 'The Way Lest You Perish' is what is most bothersome. It's the brainwashing framework on which all their other wackiness and dangerous advice is built. Surely someone upthread has mentioned the advice in this book to bring a husband who's been caught in child-m0lesting back home after his prison stay... :001_huh: It's in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sure, evolution in beliefs occurs. But character generally doesn't change, I'd contend. This seems like an odd statement for a Bible-based Christian to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Actually, it's worse than that. The Pearls wouldn't let their daughters get marriage licenses because it would "link them to sodomites" if/when Tennessee approves gay marriage. WTH? Guess I shouldn't drive either, because gays drive? GRRR. Such disgusting hatred. Really? I don't remember that part. Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I know a person IRL, given over to Pearl teachings 100%, who likes to say that she's so happy she has the freedom to pick & choose which advice to take from these books. Sadly, I don't think she sees what onlookers see in some of her family's dynamics. She already knows where I stand on the issue. There are so many books filled with good parenting/marriage advice out there that I am befuddled at the thought of wading through all the Pearls' mire to get to this so-called good advice. How could anyone trust any advice from people who advocate such horrible, bizarre, abusive methods? Gah, this gets me going every time. :iagree: It was making me twisty just reading the article. Yeah, of course they all say how "happy" they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yeah, my EX told me he deliberately hid his temper from me when we dated, as well as hid his true sexuality. Golly, guess I should have seen both coming. *smacking forehead* I was slapped with the same mentality by a few "perfect" women at church during my divorce. The "you should have known!" crap. Let's just say after all that, I had a few less friends by my own choosing. A-MEN. Oh, whatever. So you stumbled into a guy who was a stellar actor, perhaps a sociopath. It happens and I'm sorry. But this is rare, not routine. Most people are not that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Oh, whatever. So you stumbled into a guy who was a stellar actor, perhaps a sociopath. It happens and I'm sorry. But this is rare, not routine. Most people are not that good. *said gently* Do you think the above is true? Do you think the above is necessary? Do you think the above is kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Oh, whatever. So you stumbled into a guy who was a stellar actor, perhaps a sociopath. It happens and I'm sorry. But this is rare, not routine. Most people are not that good. It happens a lot more than you think. Work for a police dept for a bit. It's a real eye opener as to the character of human beings. There are people that are excellent at running a con. They don't just extend those skills to financial fraud and sometimes they use those skills to charm their way in to commit fraud. If it were rare then there would be no fraud departments in police departments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Really? I don't remember that part. Link? I also clearly remember an article about their kids not getting marriage licenses. I think it was on their website. I don't want to google it because I want nothing to do with the Pearls anymore. We used to go to a church where the people loved them. Since we were new parents and didn't know any better, we followed much of the Pearls parenting advice. Blech! I stopped a few years ago, but DH was still partly stuck in their mindset. I was very thankful when about a month ago he told one of our kids that he would've spanked him, but that I didn't want him to anymore. We don't always know what to do instead, but I am thankful that he's decided to ignore the Pearls' advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It's here. And for those who don't wish to click - and I can't blame you - here are the pertinent excerpts: I will offer you a practical solution. When your state grants marital status to same-sex partners, send the state notification of your revocation of your state marriage license. And then as a couple, draw up a document that you file in your local courthouse that declares your marriage to have occurred on the date you were married long ago, including city, county, and state, with a brief statement about the Biblical nature of your covenant before God, and then signed by the two of you and witnessed by two friends. It is a retro-marriage covenant—not a license. When I first shared this with my wife, she freaked out and said she did not want to get a divorce, just to be married again 38 years later. No, your rejection of the state license will not be a divorce. You are just acknowledging that the state never had jurisdiction over your marriage and that your marriage has existed, and does exist, apart from the state. We expect the state to continue to recognize our marriage, granting us all the protection and rights that marriages have traditionally enjoyed. It will just give us the satisfaction of stepping out of the circle into which the queers have stepped. The document of marriage you draw up and witness will have the force of law when it is witnessed and filed at your local courthouse. He describes the "sodomite agenda" before that, and his children's non-state-sullied marriage declarations below. And now, I will go bleach my eyes. :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) *said gently* Do you think the above is true? Do you think the above is necessary? Do you think the above is kind? Yes, absolutely. The snarky implication that I am akin to those "perfect" women whom she ever-so-wisely dumped as friends, prompted the "whatever", to which I assume you are referring. The rest is just common sense. It is true. Most people are NOT stellar liars who can cover for very long. There are rare individuals who are, and we often hear about them having another family stashed somewhere or something. Edited July 18, 2012 by TranquilMind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It happens a lot more than you think. Work for a police dept for a bit. It's a real eye opener as to the character of human beings. There are people that are excellent at running a con. They don't just extend those skills to financial fraud and sometimes they use those skills to charm their way in to commit fraud. If it were rare then there would be no fraud departments in police departments. I worked for the Prosecutor's office for years. Yes, there are cons, but most of them give clues along the way that people choose not to pick up because they love the person (Mom, girlfriend, whomever), so they dismiss their intuition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It's here. That process seems really silly and will not affect legal standing whatsoever. One will still be married unless one divorces under the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I worked for the Prosecutor's office for years. Yes, there are cons, but most of them give clues along the way that people choose not to pick up because they love the person (Mom, girlfriend, whomever), so they dismiss their intuition. So it could conceivably carry over to dating then? Not everyone is as good at reading people as you seem to be. Some people are simply not born with being good at reading social cues. Some choose not to see because of love or because they aren't expecting to be blindsided later on. I still adamantly reject the Pearls ideas on marriage and think that book is sewage. It is not all up to the woman. I abhor legalism and everything I read and every word I hear from the Pearls mouths smacks of legalism. The review basically used the tone and the words from the text so I fail to see an agenda there. There is no grace in the Pearl teachings. None. Unless it's the woman extending it to the man. I find it horrifically repulsive that they would suggest a woman do anything to a man molesting her children than make sure he goes and stays in jail. To suggest reconciliation in any form is repulsive as child molesters do. not. change. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Tranquil Mind, do you agree with this book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yes, absolutely. The snarky implication that I am akin to those "perfect" women whom she ever-so-wisely dumped as friends, prompted the "whatever", to which I assume you are referring. The rest is just common sense. It is true. Most people are NOT stellar liars who can cover for very long. There are rare individuals who are, and we often hear about them having another family stashed somewhere or something. Thank you for your honest reponse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I worked for the Prosecutor's office for years. Yes, there are cons, but most of them give clues along the way that people choose not to pick up because they love the person (Mom, girlfriend, whomever), so they dismiss their intuition. I will agree with you that cons often can't sustain the lie for long periods (and defining that time frame is difficult) However, it is very often just long enough for a marriage to take place and then things are really really complicated especially if children are involved. There are many people on the fringes of my life that I do not trust as far as I can throw them. I worked with a girl who lied so outrageously that if she were telling a story NONE of us could even LOOK at each other for fear we would bust out laughing. The sad part about that is that she was a nice woman...I still count her as a 'friend' to the extent I am friendly with her on FB and when I see her and such. So I imagine someone like her thinking that everyone buys her lies...because we never call her on it. However, it is the reason she could never be a close friend of mine....I cull out people who are not trustworthy. But I am 47 years old. I've learned a lot since I was 15. Part of that involved my XH who really and truly tricked me into marrying him. And the reason he was able to do that is because I didn't have the life experience to properly gauge his words vs. actions. By the time I realized he wasn't going to live up to his promises I was married to him. I didn't want to be divorced. So I made the best of it. And I learned to not trust him....And STILL by the time I did divorce him 26 years later I was gobsmacked to uncover the total double life he was living. So I am happy that you have not become involved intimately with such a person in your lifetime. But it happens. Even to intelligent people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 pdalley: So it could conceivably carry over to dating then? Not everyone is as good at reading people as you seem to be. Some people are simply not born with being good at reading social cues. Some choose not to see because of love or because they aren't expecting to be blindsided later on. It is a skill that is highly useful in life. We ought to encourage it and even teach it! I've also been a landlord for over a decade. Gut reaction never lies. If something isn't right, it isn't right, and I will dig until I find it. I still adamantly reject the Pearls ideas on marriage and think that book is sewage. It is not all up to the woman. I don't think it is "all" up to the woman. But each person is responsible to do what she/he can do and to make wise decisions. A lot of heartache can be avoided if one pays attention to clues that are clearly visible early on, even if they are subtle. That's all I am saying here. I abhor legalism and everything I read and every word I hear from the Pearls mouths smacks of legalism. The review basically used the tone and the words from the text so I fail to see an agenda there. I don't think so and disagree with your assessment. By the way, have you read the Pearl's "Jumping Ship" series about how a legalistic, boring home life with overly strict rules and no fun causes Christian teens to "jump ship" to more exciting waters? I thought it was very good, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Scarlett: But I am 47 years old. I've learned a lot since I was 15. Part of that involved my XH who really and truly tricked me into marrying him. And the reason he was able to do that is because I didn't have the life experience to properly gauge his words vs. actions. By the time I realized he wasn't going to live up to his promises I was married to him. I didn't want to be divorced. So I made the best of it. And I learned to not trust him....And STILL by the time I did divorce him 26 years later I was gobsmacked to uncover the total double life he was living. I understand and I'm really sorry this happened to you. Were your parents (or grandparents, or whoever raised you) or those who did have the life experience to see through him snowed by him too? So I am happy that you have not become involved intimately with such a person in your lifetime. But it happens. Even to intelligent people. Oh, I've made a few mistakes in my time. But like I tell my kids, I never make the same mistake twice. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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