Secular WTM Board

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I would like to see a secular section to these boards as well. I don't care for the Denim Jumper. Vegesource is a total waste. Yahoo message boards are awful and difficult to navigate. These boards are set up nicely.

 

I especially would like it from a curriculum point of view. I don't like wading through posts of religious curriculum and trying to find non-religious curriculum suggestions. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

 

Also, when posting about a problem or wanting advice I don't want to read Bible verses and have the advice given through the lens of Christian beliefs and theology. Again, it's alot to wade through and I'm just not interested in this point of view anymore.

 

It seems to that many threads that are not Christian based get swayed in that direction anyway.

 

So I'd really like to see a secular section too.

 

I'm an agnostic who as often as not refers to the Christian bible for analogies and mines it for wisdom. That will come out here, so even my posts aren't "safe" if you want to avoid such thing. I do try to label, but I'm not always 100% reliable about it.

[*anj*]

Again, why not state that you're not looking for a specifically Christian take on things? And then keep an open mind and be willing to listen to a variety of input nonetheless.

 

Exactly. Awhile ago I asked a question about attending a funeral for a relative. I was trying to decide whether or not to attend. Several people encouraged me to go, and they weren't all Christian. In fact, Eliana was one of those whose input really persuaded me to attend. She mentioned her own religious beliefs about attending such an event. She is an Orthodox Jewish woman and she knows that I am a Christian, yet she shared her opinion with me and it was very helpful. I attended, and was glad I did.

 

Truth is truth.

As a Christian I can hear truth from a person of any background. I can disagree with the particular theology of a given religion yet find threads of truth within it. There are many people here who don't share my religious beliefs, yet are among my favorites on this board. I respect their opinions and am pleased when they jump into the fray. Pam in TN, PiCO, Audrey (where's she been lately????), Genie, Eliana, Osmosis Mom, and too many others to name. Even Phred is starting to wear me down. I'm glad that we're all here.

 

If you take the Christians out of the WTM boards, you won't have the WTM boards anymore. Likewise for all the other types of people who are here. This board is great because of its diversity, not in spite of it.

[Kathleen in VA]

FWIW, I LOVE it when people disagree with me and state opinions that initially cause me to feel uncomfortable or indignant. Oftentimes, the non-Christians here have set me to thinking about *why* I think something is true - not necessarily a religious truth - just something about life in general. I'm shocked to see how narrow-minded I can be sometimes. (ok, a lot of times) I am growing as a person. I'm learning how to express myself better. If I cloistered myself with like-minded people who always agreed with me I would stagnate and die (figuratively speaking).

 

I have gotten great advice and read great posts from a wide spectrum of worldviews here. I am not opposed to using "secular" curriculum just because it is secular and I like to learn what's new out there in all arenas.

 

I wish y'all lived on my street:).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Colleen - You're assuming *I* am starting the thread in which case I *can* ask for a secular view point. (In which case usually someone cannot contain themselves and offers Christian input anyway.)

 

But many times I like to read other people's threads to see if I can learn anything new or find out about curriculum. So in that way, I am wading.

 

I won't get into specifics here about *my* journey but it has nothing to do with not wanting different view points. I have *personally* just had enough of the Christian view and theology. I'm saturated with it. Overloaded with it. I've had enough, that's all.

 

In my experience, the secular boards in other places on the net are very slow and there's not much action. I can see these boards here at The Well Trained Mind having a good secular section where people post and there is alot of action. I'd really like to see it.

 

I have to be honest, though -- if there were such a section, I wouldn't be able to bear fragmenting myself from my religious friends. Then I would worry that my posts would be sometimes too religiously tinged for the secular section and too much ideologically agnostic for the religious section.

 

I'd feel like I do IRL -- neither fish nor fowl nor good red herring. I don't do secular boards because they are almost invariably "How oppressive/stupid/rude/idiotic/messed up/abusive/[insert sneering vituperative phrase here] ARE those religious people, anyhow?" then "I agree, can you believe what she said? Can you believe how much better they think they are?" And I don't do religious boards because there's a great deal of "I thank Thee that I am not as other men -- extortioners, unjust, or even as those Democrats. If only there were fewer secular humanists in the world, all our problems would be solved."

 

And yeah, I'm exaggerating, but dang, that's what it feels like sometimes. :glare:

 

So I come here.

[Deeke]

Thank you Momof2kids!

 

I don't think we should have to go seeking secular boards elsewhere when we also follow TWTM. I think there should be a General Board and then sub-boards for secular, Christian, alternative, however-the-heck you use TWTM boards. Give us some choices instead of scaring people away. I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It does seem to come and go in waves though, don't you think? I remember a time when the General Board had a great many threads relating to the winter solstice and circle decorations. :D I was doin' some wading myself back then ;)

 

I'm glad you're glad there's a good mix of people here. :iagree:

 

Unfortunately -- and I'm not trying to "start" something here -- I don't think this board will have too many of those threads. I have a notion that behind the scenes it will be made known that such topics are not really welcome.

 

And I may be wrong. But I'm missing a couple of posters, and I worry that they may have gotten discouraged by pointed "disincentives" to post on certain topics. (Paganism, wiccan topics, solstice celebrations, etc.)

 

I love our mix of people, too. I hope we can preserve it.

[manylilblessings]

I too have noticed the rise in posts including religion. But that's just a sign of the times... they're tough. Those that believe in a deity are going to turn to him these days.

 

As to a separate board... I have to disagree. If believers and non-believers can't manage to live together here, united by the common interest of educating our kids... we're worse off than I ever imagined.

 

I've always wanted to say this Phred... I completely agree with you!! :lol:

 

I like the diversity here. I find inspiration in some posts, strength in some, and others help increase my faith. The posters here are well spoken, thoughtful, and interesting to read. That keeps me here.

[nukeswife]

I just wanted to say that I'm a secular hser. We do not attend a church nor do we do any sort of religious training in our home, but I love these boards just as they are. I frequent another board that is said to be all inclusive too and I'm definitely more in the minority there as a secular than I am here. I've found many secular friends here, as well as many Christian friends that choose to use secular materials. I can honestly say I wouldn't necessarily be happier if there was a specific secular area, because as others would say sometimes it doesn't matter if who answers in Christian.

 

If I'm looking for curriculum I'll specifically post that I'm looking for something secular. If I'm looking at a post about a curriculum I've not heard of before and it turns out is Christian or something I'm not looking for who cares, that's how I learn what's out there. I'm not offended if someone doesn't specifically state in the title that the hot new thing they found is Christian, no biggie I'll just remember for next time that a post about it probably won't interest me. I do get a bit ticked if I post about something in a clearly secular way and someone tries to tell me to "turn to the scriptures" and things like that, but that's never happened to me here, it has in other places, which is why I like it here as is.

 

I'm free to be me and I'm free to let others be themselves.

[LisaNY]

FWIW, I LOVE it when people disagree with me and state opinions that initially cause me to feel uncomfortable or indignant. Oftentimes, the non-Christians here have set me to thinking about *why* I think something is true - not necessarily a religious truth - just something about life in general. I'm shocked to see how narrow-minded I can be sometimes. (ok, a lot of times) I am growing as a person. I'm learning how to express myself better. If I cloistered myself with like-minded people who always agreed with me I would stagnate and die (figuratively speaking).

 

I have gotten great advice and read great posts from a wide spectrum of worldviews here. I am not opposed to using "secular" curriculum just because it is secular and I like to learn what's new out there in all arenas.

 

I wish y'all lived on my street:).

 

Well said, Kathleen!! I feel the same way. Thank you for posting this. :001_smile:

[HSMom2One]

There is no secular board because this is an inclusive board. Secular, Christian, Humanist, Pagan, Jewish, Muslim and anyone else, all welcome. The owner of the board choose this and so it is this way. If I recall SWB's dh is a Christian pastor right? Somehow you waded through her book on classical education and found this place. I am sorry you put so little value on the opinions of people who have a different religious tradition.

 

I love having everyone here. It stretches me and challenges me and I think it is great. If I specifically need input on a religious issue I state that and people of similar beliefs reply.

 

:iagree: Well said, Cadam! I completely agree. I'd also add that a split group would subtly imply discrimination -- imho. We can all learn from each other, be stretched and grow as people.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

 

I know that this is true, but the fact is, it is their loss not to enter into community with us. I'm sorry that they will not take the chance to find out for themselves.

 

Though some of us choose not to vaccinate for one reason or another, MOST of us have had all our shots on the off chance that we might bite. (Hive immunity, as it were.) :D

[genie]

Thank you Momof2kids!

 

I don't think we should have to go seeking secular boards elsewhere when we also follow TWTM. I think there should be a General Board and then sub-boards for secular, Christian, alternative, however-the-heck you use TWTM boards. Give us some choices instead of scaring people away. I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

 

 

I'm not sure any of us were trying to say your only choice is to seek out other boards. I think we are saying that what we desire, we already are able to find here, just as it is. Yes, it takes some digging. And we feel it's worth it.

 

And honestly, I prefer to see things for myself. So even if I had heard this board was thought to be an overly Christian board, I would not be "scared away". I don't scare that easily. I investigate and decide for myself. If someone has come here and decided it's not for them, that's really their choice. It is not the owner of this board's responsibility to try to make sure they please everyone. There are issues that I don't agree with in the management of this board, but being that it's not MY board, I choose to make the best of things as they are.

 

I said in another thread that I feel the new format of these boards lends itself to being more inclusive. I used to be very worried about posting alternate views because I didn't want to deal with the backlash. I'm not sure if that was real or imagined, but I have found my voice on this board, and discovered that people aren't as negative about it as I thought they would be. "Be the change you want to see." If someone wants to complain that these boards are too overly Christian, then come here and be an alternate voice. If these boards have a feel, it's reflective of the people who post the most. Start threads about secular issues. Make your (our) presence more visible. Do your part in helping to create a truly inclusive environment where we can all learn from each other.

[genie]

 

And I may be wrong. But I'm missing a couple of posters, and I worry that they may have gotten discouraged by pointed "disincentives" to post on certain topics. (Paganism, wiccan topics, solstice celebrations, etc.)

 

 

 

No Pam, you're not wrong.

[Sarah CB]

I also think that one of the reasons many other message board sites are so slow is because they are fragmented into too many individual boards. If we had a bunch of different "general" boards then the traffic on each of them would be *way* less and people would stop coming because the boards are too slow. Our board works and is vibrant because we have a large number of people coming here. Split us up and you'll have slow boards.

 

And where would it stop? So you have a Secular/General/WTM board - then you'd need a Christian one, and a Jewish one, and a Pagan one, and maybe a Buddhist one...anything else? Sometimes we have some serious disagreements between AP parents and non-AP parents, perhaps we need to separate those as well so that an AP parent isn't told to let their baby cry it out and a non-AP parent isn't told to wear their baby. And, boy oh boy, life would be a whole lot more pleasant if we had the pro-circumcision parents on one board and the anti-circumcision parents on another board.

 

Which brings me to another category - shouldn't there be a "pure WTM" board, an "adapted WTM" board and maybe another board for those who don't really use TWTM but just like to come here? And we have a lot more CM parents than we used to maybe they need their own board. Don't forget the Classical Unschoolers.

 

I also think that it might be a good idea to split ourselves into those who are willing to answer the door in a towel and those who are not because I'm sure that those who are not may become offended when those who do talk about flashing the UPS man.

 

Personally, I like being on an active, vibrant board with lots of people. Fragmantation would lead to really, really boring and slow boards.

[HSMom2One]

I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

 

This makes me so sad! And to think, there have been times that I felt that the board is mostly frequented by secularists and that I'm an oddball in the mix.

 

Lucinda

[Deeke]

I'm not sure any of us were trying to say your only choice is to seek out other boards.

 

No worry, I never took it as that at all. :) Just saying we(as in other than Christians) use TWTM also and it would be nice to have other options here is all, and not have to seek out other boards.

[HSMom2One]

I also think that one of the reasons many other message board sites are so slow is because they are fragmented into too many individual boards. If we had a bunch of different "general" boards then the traffic on each of them would be *way* less and people would stop coming because the boards are too slow. Our board works and is vibrant because we have a large number of people coming here. Split us up and you'll have slow boards.

 

And where would it stop? So you have a Secular/General/WTM board - then you'd need a Christian one, and a Jewish one, and a Pagan one, and maybe a Buddhist one...anything else? Sometimes we have some serious disagreements between AP parents and non-AP parents, perhaps we need to separate those as well so that an AP parent isn't told to let their baby cry it out and a non-AP parent isn't told to wear their baby. And, boy oh boy, life would be a whole lot more pleasant if we had the pro-circumcision parents on one board and the anti-circumcision parents on another board.

 

Which brings me to another category - shouldn't there be a "pure WTM" board, an "adapted WTM" board and maybe another board for those who don't really use TWTM but just like to come here? And we have a lot more CM parents than we used to maybe they need their own board. Don't forget the Classical Unschoolers.

 

I also think that it might be a good idea to split ourselves into those who are willing to answer the door in a towel and those who are not because I'm sure that those who are not may become offended when those who do talk about flashing the UPS man.

 

Personally, I like being on an active, vibrant board with lots of people. Fragmantation would lead to really, really boring and slow boards.

 

:thumbup: Well said, my friend, well said!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[nmoira]

 

I don't think we should have to go seeking secular boards elsewhere when we also follow TWTM. I think there should be a General Board and then sub-boards for secular, Christian, alternative, however-the-heck you use TWTM boards. Give us some choices instead of scaring people away. I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

What this board has is critical mass. There are almost 1200 posters with at least 50 posts, and that's an awful lot of experience to draw from. Honestly, if there were a busy secular board with a large membership base I'd be there, but as of yet, nothing elsewhere compares to what I can get here. However, even though I wish it was more overtly diverse, I would still come here since I introduce different perspectives into our schooling.

[LisaNY]

Thank you Momof2kids!

 

I don't think we should have to go seeking secular boards elsewhere when we also follow TWTM. I think there should be a General Board and then sub-boards for secular, Christian, alternative, however-the-heck you use TWTM boards. Give us some choices instead of scaring people away. I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

 

No, no, no. I don't like that idea at all. I don't WANT TO be separated from the secular people. The mere thought of separate boards makes me *cringe*. This place feels like a community. Separate boards would definitely do away with that idea by fracturing is into our own little private islands. blech

 

My life has been *enriched* by the diversity of people here. It is sad to think that I would have been deprived of that if the boards had been set up that way.

 

The people on this board never cease to amaze me. We can talk about some pretty hot topics, and they *rarely* ever descend into name-calling, or bad speech, etc. There is true, thoughtful discussion going on here, and the BEST part of it is the diversity.

 

Carol, I am truly sorry that you feel that uncomfortable here. I really, really try to be sensitive to those who do not believe as I do when I post.

[LisaNY]

Unfortunately -- and I'm not trying to "start" something here -- I don't think this board will have too many of those threads. I have a notion that behind the scenes it will be made known that such topics are not really welcome.

 

And I may be wrong. But I'm missing a couple of posters, and I worry that they may have gotten discouraged by pointed "disincentives" to post on certain topics. (Paganism, wiccan topics, solstice celebrations, etc.)

 

I love our mix of people, too. I hope we can preserve it.

 

That's not good. Did they disappear on the old boards, or from here? One neat thing about the new boards is the fact that you just see subject lines. It is much easier for those who are offending by certain topics to avoid them, since the replies are inside the post. On the old boards, there was more of the discussion to see.

[Momof2kids]

Ugggh. OK at the risk of sounding like a person who just wants to shut myself up in a closet all alone, I don't want to wade through Paganism, wiccan topics, solstice celebrations, posts either. No offense, it's just not my thing either.

 

It seems to be polar opposites that are my choices in many areas that I am dealing with. Homeschooling, politics, child-rearing philosphies. I don't fit with the Christians or the Pagans. I don't fit with the Liberals or the Conservatives. I don't fit in with the "attachment parenting" breast feed your kid until they're 8 and sleep in the family bed or the put the kid in pre-school at 6 weeks old camp either.

 

It's just frustrating. While we can all learn some things from eachother and have different views on things, lets face it, when we want some real good friends we want people like us. That's what starts many friendships. Things in common. But I know these are message boards which are different from having friendships in real life.

 

But yes I can see where it can get out of control. As another poster said (sorry I can't remember who) what's next? A Muslim section, a Pagan/Witchcraft section, etc??

 

But I guess when I hear of a "secular" board, I take it to mean free from religion. General, generic. I know, I know. I've heard about how people cannot seperate themselves from their faith and maybe at the end of the day, I can't either. But I do know I prefer to have conversation with people without the Bible verses, "Christian-ese and Christian buzz words interdisperesed throughout.

 

Also, I think someone who never was a Christian and raised in another religion (Pagan, Witchcraft, Muslim, Jewish, whatever) may have a different reference point and a different kind of tolerance and willingness to listen to Christians than someone who has chosen to leave the Christian lifestyle as is lived-out by most Christians today.

 

Anyway, these are just some thoughts of mine.

 

This is a good discussion.

[starlashine]

Ya know, I thought this board was a bit too overly christian when I first started reading it, but now I find that I enjoy the perspectives from all fronts. I also agree that this would be a much less exciting place if it was segregated into all the different religions/subsets of homeschooling. Now, I may still stumble into a post or two sometimes that make me see red for various reasons, but everyone is pretty supportive here, and that is nice. Discussion is not discussion without dissenting and differing opinions, and I think the lack of compartmentalization on this board encourages that. If you don't want to hear or see things that are not specifically your style of teaching or of your faith, then what's the point of being on a forum anyway? You can just agree with yourself. You don't need us for that.:001_smile:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

No Pam, you're not wrong.

 

Well, shoot. :angry:

[genie]

Unfortunately -- and I'm not trying to "start" something here -- I don't think this board will have too many of those threads. I have a notion that behind the scenes it will be made known that such topics are not really welcome.

 

And I may be wrong. But I'm missing a couple of posters, and I worry that they may have gotten discouraged by pointed "disincentives" to post on certain topics. (Paganism, wiccan topics, solstice celebrations, etc.)

 

I love our mix of people, too. I hope we can preserve it.

 

I think you're right about this, but I think things have to be in baby steps. (Unfortunately. I HATE baby steps. I'm a full throttle kind of girl!) I do sense that a large percentage of this community is Christian. I don't think anyone is denying that, and it is probably pretty representative of the population in general. But all of us tend to "edit" our dialog depending on the company we are in. If we know we're going to be completely outnumbered, we tend to be less vocal. (Well, most of us. Phred's an obvious exception! :))

 

But it works in the opposite fashion also. When you are in a group that you feel shares your beliefs 100%, you are going to speak with the assumption that everyone agrees with you. To me, that is offputting. I enjoy reading alternate views, but I grate a little at the assumption that I share them. The more visible non-Christians become on this board, the more aware Christians will be of us. I wouldn't want people to feel like they can't talk about their religion, but hopefully the realization that not everyone shares the same beliefs would lead to posts that don't make those assumptions. (And I'm not saying there are a lot of threads like that. Just speaking to the psychological aspect of it.)

 

Right now, I don't think this board is ready for a lot of pagan conversation, because wicca and whatnot are seen as opposing Christianity. It is far more "scary" to Christians than simply someone with no religion. But that's the baby step. Increase awareness of just how diverse our online population already is, and respect that not everyone shares your beliefs.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

Also, I think someone who never was a Christian and raised in another religion (Pagan, Witchcraft, Muslim, Jewish, whatever) may have a different reference point and a different kind of tolerance and willingness to listen to Christians than someone who has chosen to leave the Christian lifestyle as is lived-out by most Christians today.

 

Anyway, these are just some thoughts of mine.

 

This is a good discussion.

 

I'm not slamming you in any way for having this viewpoint, but I left Christianity and I don't want to be involved in a secular-only board. This board is just about exactly my comfort level, personally. The only thing I get uncomfortable about is that some people that I really care about (silly as that may sound with this being a virtual community) find themselves very uncomfortable here. Sad more than uncomfortable, though.

 

I think it might have to do with where we are on our journey, maybe.

 

I agree that it's a good discussion.

[Mekanamom]

I have to be honest, though -- if there were such a section, I wouldn't be able to bear fragmenting myself from my religious friends. Then I would worry that my posts would be sometimes too religiously tinged for the secular section and too much ideologically agnostic for the religious section.

 

I'd feel like I do IRL -- neither fish nor fowl nor good red herring. I don't do secular boards because they are almost invariably "How oppressive/studid/rude/idiotic/messed up/abusive/[insert sneering vituperative phrase here] ARE those religious people, anyhow?" then "I agree, can you believe what she said? Can you believe how much better they think they are?" And I don't do religious boards because there's a great deal of "I thank Thee that I am not as other men -- extortioners, unjust, or even as those Democrats. If only there were fewer secular humanists in the world, all our problems would be solved."

 

And yeah, I'm exaggerating, but dang, that's what it feels like sometimes. :glare:

 

So I come here.

 

LOL :iagree: That's how I feel too. Though I never in a million years could have put it so perfectly. :lol:

 

To the OP: I know the pain of which you speak regarding secular/non-secular curricula. I drove myself nuts trying to put together a completely secular program on my own. I tried some religious materials and they were really good! but when the religion got to be too much and I tried to recreate it in a secular way, the materials disappointed me. (Except for the Peace Hill Press items. I really like those, but my kids are going through school faster than they can publish new books... and so it goes.) I felt like I was constantly on the search. It was wearing me down.

 

Calvert has been a good answer for me. Expensive, though. I don't often post on the curriculum board these days because I'm happy with what we're using.

[nmoira]

 

I enjoy reading alternate views, but I grate a little at the assumption that I share them.

This hits the nail on the head for me.

[LisaNY]

 

It's just frustrating. While we can all learn some things from eachother and have different views on things, lets face it, when we want some real good friends we want people like us. That's what starts many friendships. Things in common.

 

This is a good discussion.

 

Yes, but that is what makes this place so great! There are some people here who I love to banter back and forth with, and we have almost nothing in common! :001_smile: I don't have to worry about having lots of things in common with them. I like them just the way they are - differences and all. This is a message board, where people from all walks of life come together under a common "roof" and share. It's a great concept.

 

And yes, this is a good discussion, and one that wouldn't be happening right now if we were all sent to our respective, separate boards.

[LisaNY]

 

I said in another thread that I feel the new format of these boards lends itself to being more inclusive. I used to be very worried about posting alternate views because I didn't want to deal with the backlash. I'm not sure if that was real or imagined, but I have found my voice on this board, and discovered that people aren't as negative about it as I thought they would be. "Be the change you want to see." If someone wants to complain that these boards are too overly Christian, then come here and be an alternate voice. If these boards have a feel, it's reflective of the people who post the most. Start threads about secular issues. Make your (our) presence more visible. Do your part in helping to create a truly inclusive environment where we can all learn from each other.

 

Excellent idea! :001_smile:

[Jenny in Florida]

. . . but my experience has been that the folks on this board are more tolerant and accepting than any of the secular groups to which I've belonged. Personally, I like the diversity of viewpoint and wouldn't want to see it broken up into little enclaves.

[Robin Hood]

I like the diversity. I can crawl out of my skin at the things I disagree with, but there I am reading away. Being a Christian myself and coming from that viewpoint, keeping up with the secular thinking right here on this board has given me a sensitivity to the secular people I am involved with. It has broadened me and caused me to rethink issues. I have not nor will I change my Biblical world view, but I see the same strong inclination of secular worldview people and I know that nobody will change on account of my world view either. But I like understanding the secular worldview better. I have more respect for mankind as I hear opposing views. All of you here who are more secular minded have helped me in the real world be kinder, gentler, sypathetic, and I don't throw scriptures at people any more, not that I did a lot before, but I am more sensitive to other people's viewpoints. I get irritated at scripture throwing, it seems uppity.

 

Anyway, I guess I am trying to say that everybody on this board has helped shaped my viewpoints and I am stepping out more in involvement in the community I live in. Irl, I am shy and reclusive.

 

As to not wanting to wade through Xian curriculum choices and opinions, do like the rest of us, skip over it or that portion, at least. If possible try to wade through to the heart of the curriculum. I like to read reviews of books at amazon and I have to wade through a lot of view points many times to get to the core of the book.

 

I don't like to jump into discussions because I am a weak debater, but there, I said something.

[genie]

Ugggh. OK at the risk of sounding like a person who just wants to shut myself up in a closet all alone, I don't want to wade through Paganism, wiccan topics, solstice celebrations, posts either. No offense, it's just not my thing either.

 

And that's fine. You're a grown woman who is capable of deciding for herself if a certain board is worth it or not.

 

I don't fit with the Christians or the Pagans. I don't fit with the Liberals or the Conservatives. I don't fit in with the "attachment parenting" breast feed your kid until they're 8 and sleep in the family bed or the put the kid in pre-school at 6 weeks old camp either.

 

But really, who does? Who fits nicely and neatly into any one category? That's why General is a good word. Because it is far too diverse to break up. You would need a gajillion subsections, and even then, most people would go from subsection to subsection because they still wouldn't fit nice and neatly into any one subsection. And if they did, they would probably be pretty darn lonely in there. :)

 

 

It's just frustrating. While we can all learn some things from eachother and have different views on things, lets face it, when we want some real good friends we want people like us. That's what starts many friendships. Things in common. But I know these are message boards which are different from having friendships in real life.

 

But see, that's another positive aspect of the diversity of these boards. When I come across someone who seems to have the same views of religion that I do, they stand out to me! When I find someone with the same sense of humor, they stand out to me! When I find someone who uses the same curricula as me, they stand out to me! But it is the rare individual who will share ALL those traits. There are some Christian women on here that make my sides hurt from laughing so hard. If I were on a secular board, I might never have found them! My life is a little brighter because of them. The bigger the pond, the more chance of finding a fish just like you!

 

 

Also, I think someone who never was a Christian and raised in another religion (Pagan, Witchcraft, Muslim, Jewish, whatever) may have a different reference point and a different kind of tolerance and willingness to listen to Christians than someone who has chosen to leave the Christian lifestyle as is lived-out by most Christians today.

 

 

Absolutely! Typically, those who have left Christianity will have some bruises. Avoiding places that push those bruises is sometimes necessary. Over time, the bruises start to fade, and you can be around things without feeling the hurt. But if I'm the one with the open sore, I can't put the responsibility of keeping my wound clean on other people. I have to take whatever measures I have to take to make sure the wound heals properly so I can move past avoidance and on to not only tolerance, but acceptance.

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't do secular boards because they are almost invariably "How oppressive/studid/rude/idiotic/messed up/abusive/[insert sneering vituperative phrase here] ARE those religious people, anyhow?" then "I agree, can you believe what she said? Can you believe how much better they think they are?"

 

. . .

 

So I come here.

 

That's been my experience, too, Pam. (And I tried to rep you, but apparently I've done so too recently.) My problem with so many of the secular groups to which I've belonged is that they seem to be less about being who they are than about complaining about everyone else.

 

Honestly, hanging out on these boards for the last couple of years has been a huge learning experience for me. I'll stop short of calling it "inspiring," since that might offend my secular friends. However, what I have found here is a lot of people who are truly living out their principles in meaningful, compassionate ways. The folks here, with whom I am well aware that I share very little common ground in terms of religion or even politics, are just plain nicer than in any other online (or most in-person) communities of which I've ever been a part.

 

Even if there were a secular sub-board, I'd probably choose to stay right here.

[Jenny in Atl]

This hits the nail on the head for me.

 

But I think those who take the time to really read the threads here (both on the curriculum boards and general) see that there is a variety of views represented here. I don't want to be somewhere where everyone agrees with everything I say. I want to be challenged, to think, to explore other ideas and beliefs. I don't mind wading through CC/pagan/Jewish/etc, even though I am agnostic. In the end, we are all just parents trying to do best by our kids and maybe find a little comfort and entertainment from each other. I agree with many previous posts, that the more you divide-up the board, the more dull it will become. We need more town squares, where all meet and mingle, and less isolated humans who listen little to their fellow neighbors.

 

Jenny waving from the North GA Mts. Not sure I want to go for a walk with the bears though....

[Twinmom]

I also don't like the idea of having separate boards...I enjoy listening to the variety of opinions here! We're a community and I hope we stay that way. If you personally don't like reading someone's opinion, just use the ignore feature! I suppose that's what it's there for.

 

I'm personally a Christian and have no problem posting about Christian topics...frankly, I just figure that if it isn't someone's cuppa, they'll just move on. That's what I do. I wouldn't ask someone not to post secular/Wiccan/Buddhist/whatever just because I don't believe that way, so I hope no one would do that to me. If I post "Christian," I'm probably aiming at getting a Christian response (though I wouldn't mind others) and I assume that's what others are doing when they post secular content or something regarding another faith. I'll read it if I'm curious or have something to offer, won't if I don't. (I can recall times I've directed folks to secular resources I know about...that just seems kind and in keeping with my own faith.) It's rare that I don't read a post simply because it discusses non-Christian content (usually I find those an interesting intellectual exercise!), but I will move on if I find the presentation offensive. I can't imagine skipping a post/ignoring a person for any other reason. I like the variety here!

 

I think it makes things much richer to have a variety of viewpoints on a given subject, and I enjoy the differences herein for that reason! I'd hope that all can remember, however, that we do have something pretty major in common...home schooling, and a love for our kids. However we are doing it, THAT is what makes us a community and I hope we can stay that way. The last thing we need is more division in the home schooling community, IMHO.

[Doran]

Thank you Momof2kids!

 

I don't think we should have to go seeking secular boards elsewhere when we also follow TWTM. I think there should be a General Board and then sub-boards for secular, Christian, alternative, however-the-heck you use TWTM boards. Give us some choices instead of scaring people away. I am sorry everyone, but I know many people who follow TWTM and will not come here or post here because it is SEEN and THOUGHT to be a overly Christian board, regardless of whether is an all inclusive board.

 

 

What a pity that anyone would opt out of a group this large and this diverse because of a preconceived notion that they don't belong or don't want to belong. This is the sort of behavior to which I was referring in my earlier reply.

 

I realize that, by nature, we are tribal people, thus we have strongly ingrained instincts to flock together with matching birds. But, the result for today's times is that we start by assuming too much about other flocks. Rather than joining up with a big group all squawking in different languages, we stick to what we think we know, or to where we feel most comfortable. That's understandable. I've done it, too. Sadly, in so doing, we miss exposure to what others might have to say. No one in the big flock is asking us to adopt their language. In fact, we may never even fully understand what they're saying. But, from my view, there is such value in what is said in the larger group that the smaller, segregated conversation seems to pale in comparison.

 

That's just my opinion, of course. I realize you're entitled to a different one. :D

[LauraGB]

But I think those who take the time to really read the threads here (both on the curriculum boards and general) see that there is a variety of views represented here. I don't want to be somewhere where everyone agrees with everything I say. I want to be challenged, to think, to explore other ideas and beliefs. I don't mind wading through CC/pagan/Jewish/etc, even though I am agnostic. In the end, we are all just parents trying to do best by our kids and maybe find a little comfort and entertainment from each other. I agree with many previous posts, that the more you divide-up the board, the more dull it will become. We need more town squares, where all meet and mingle, and less isolated humans who listen little to their fellow neighbors.

 

Well said, as many of the other posts have been.

 

A few weeks ago, there was a thread called "Whats your moral compass" or something like that. A lot of people answered "the Bible", some answered "The Golden Rule" some answered wisdom of experience, logic, nature etc. There were a lot of different answers, but in the end, it all came down to a desire to just be a good, decent, well intended person. I guess I think its okay to be who you are, and respect others for whatever its taken for them to get there. When someone has a prayer request, I always look because it means that person is struggling with something. And while I may not feel equipped to send a "prayer" up, I am thinking about that person and hoping things turn out well for them - I believe there is power in that as well.

 

I like the diversity. I wouldn't want the boards to separate. Just my 2 cents.

[H.S. Burrow]

But I think those who take the time to really read the threads here (both on the curriculum boards and general) see that there is a variety of views represented here. I don't want to be somewhere where everyone agrees with everything I say. I want to be challenged, to think, to explore other ideas and beliefs. I don't mind wading through CC/pagan/Jewish/etc, even though I am agnostic. In the end, we are all just parents trying to do best by our kids and maybe find a little comfort and entertainment from each other. I agree with many previous posts, that the more you divide-up the board, the more dull it will become. We need more town squares, where all meet and mingle, and less isolated humans who listen little to their fellow neighbors.

 

Jenny waving from the North GA Mts. Not sure I want to go for a walk with the bears though....

 

This sentence sums it all up rather nicely!

[*anj*]

It has just come to my attention that at least one of the people I named in my earlier post no longer comes here because she was basically bullied and verbally abused by people on this board.

 

I am going to refrain from using the words that are buzzing against the insides of my lips, begging for release. Suffice it to say that at least one important, helpful, fun, encouraging, inspiring voice has been silenced due to the foolishness of a few. Whoever you are: Is that truly the best Christian witness you have to offer? Is that really the best you can do? Are you happily thinking that you've got some additional jewels in your crown now?

 

I'm going to stop now.

Oh, and OP, even though I disagree with your premise in this thread I am going to rep you now to make up for what you've lost.

 

And while we're on the subject of People I Like But Haven't Seen in Awhile:

Where's J.Griff???

[nmoira]

But I think those who take the time to really read the threads here (both on the curriculum boards and general) see that there is a variety of views represented here.

Absolutely, and I didn't mean to imply that the assumption I share the views of others is ever present here. It isn't.

 

In the end, we are all just parents trying to do best by our kids and maybe find a little comfort and entertainment from each other. I agree with many previous posts, that the more you divide-up the board, the more dull it will become.

A bit of a digression....

 

I remember when the Internet was still a new thing. Those of us in university had email and Gopher (the web was still a new thing) and a few civilians had Compuserve, GEnie (sp?) or AOL accounts. The buzz was that the Internet was going to open minds and we'd all become wonderful, understanding, inclusive, blah, blah, blah. Well, it hasn't happened; most people just gravitate towards groups/sites/etc, they already agree with and become less rather than more tolerant. Yeah, there are "fierce" debates taking place on advocacy sites, but I don't see much in the way of measured discussion (just pockets here and there); it's just noise. While I do chafe occasionally on this board, for the most part I'm very impressed with the sensitivity shown by its members.

 

I think we'd lose something by subdividing this site. Recently, on another homeschool board I frequent, unschoolers were given their own forum and the quality of discussion in the main forum hasn't been the same. It just isn't as interesting, and I'm rarely called to look at things from a different perspective.

[starlashine]

And while we're on the subject of People I Like But Haven't Seen in Awhile:

Where's J.Griff???

 

I think she's on the bullied list, anj, haven't seen her post since one of the more turbulent morality threads. I miss her too.

[genie]

I think she's on the bullied list, anj, haven't seen her post since one of the more turbulent morality threads. I miss her too.

 

Yeah, you could probably say she fits that category. But she is also moving cross country, so she hasn't been "around" on any boards for a while.

[Mamagistra]

I think she's on the bullied list, anj, haven't seen her post since one of the more turbulent morality threads. I miss her too.

 

I believe she's in the middle of a cross-country move IIRC.

 

Howdy, jgriff...wherever you are! :seeya:

[Mamagistra]

It has just come to my attention that at least one of the people I named in my earlier post no longer comes here because she was basically bullied and verbally abused by people on this board.

 

I am going to refrain from using the words that are buzzing against the insides of my lips, begging for release. Suffice it to say that at least one important, helpful, fun, encouraging, inspiring voice has been silenced due to the foolishness of a few. Whoever you are: Is that truly the best Christian witness you have to offer? Is that really the best you can do? Are you happily thinking that you've got some additional jewels in your crown now?

 

:iagree: This truly makes me sad. :(

[Mom2legomaniacs]

Where's J.Griff???

 

Yep, she has moved across the country. I believe she will be in her new home by tomorrow? Maybe we'll see her again once she gets settled in.

[Mama Lynx]

No Pam, you're not wrong.

 

I'm very sorry to hear that. *I* am not discouraged. :D

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm new here and have enjoyed the openess towards both the religious and non-religious.

 

 

:iagree:

 

When I first joined here, I was pleasantly surprised by the diversity of the forums. I really appreciate the variety of viewpoints that can be shared here.

[Michelle in MO]

I find it a bit offensive, a bit sad, when people speak of having to "wade" through other's thoughts. I read, or begin to read, all manner of things here with which I disagree. If it genuinely disturbs or disinterests me, I can stop reading. Many's the time, though, when it does provide insight worth my consideration. Perhaps it's something I think is wa-a-a-y out in left field. So what? We're a diverse lot, we human beings, and I'm a better for person if I can tolerate listening to the diversity. Doesn't mean I have to agree. Doesn't mean I have to take it to heart.

 

I must say I agree with Colleen---it's easy enough to sift through what I want to read and what I don't want to read. I enjoy the different points of view, and reading what others believe helps me to clarify what I believe.

 

It's really very similar to using different curricula---I use some secular, some Christian, and have no trouble at all switching from one to another, being certain to explain my point of view to my kids and why I agree or disagree with a certain author. I have to agree and disagree with certain Christian curricula providers, as well! So---the sifting process and the diversity are all just a part of life, and I don't let it rock my boat too much. I would be sorry to see this board split up into different forums. (Latin, plural---should be fora??? :) )

[Cheryl in NM]

I too have noticed the rise in posts including religion. But that's just a sign of the times... they're tough. Those that believe in a deity are going to turn to him these days.

 

As to a separate board... I have to disagree. If believers and non-believers can't manage to live together here, united by the common interest of educating our kids... we're worse off than I ever imagined.

I tried to rep you, but apparently it was too soon. I love your last line here. I'd love to know why your most recent post was deleted. Oh well.

 

 

Can't we all just get along?!:001_huh:

[StephanieZ]

First, I love the varied opinions here.

 

Second, third and fourth. . . I wrote about a page and half about why I think that would be a very had idea but I just deleted it all b/c I just don't want to be inflamatory and these are just hot topics.

 

However, I *must* say that I think it is a mistake on *many* levels to segregate by religious perspective on these boards. I'd be so sad to leave, but I would if that happened.

 

I believe that SWB and her team are too wise to go down that road, and I applaud them for their gracious and careful work over these many years to steer a path of tolerance and inclusiveness that is true to their convictions. This is quite a feat in our society at large and especially in the hs community. Kudos, and keep at it.