Vocab on Standardized Test (ITBS)? My gifted kid (and her sister) blew it.

[SKL]

Both of my kids got 47%ile on the vocabulary part of the ITBS (K-1 level[6]). To put it bluntly, this is bull. Granted, in KG they might have just been confused, distracted, or had to pee - who knows? But I was wondering whether this is something any of you non-traditional schoolers see.

 

My kids have a pretty rich scope of experience and they know lots of vocabulary that kids their age don't know. But they don't watch TV, and our lives are a bit non-traditional. So maybe there is some body of standard everyday knowledge that is a mystery to them - though I doubt it.

 

Does anyone know how I can find out what was tested on the ITBS this spring? Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon with their gifted KG kids?

 

Even with the vocab bringing the grade down, my dd had a 99%ile for "reading total," so I don't think I'm just being biased. On reading words & word analysis she was about 3rd grade level. (That's kinda what I expected on those.) She's a young KGr, having turned 5 in January, so I expected the vocab to be lower than the decoding, but not that much lower.

Edited June 7, 2012 by SKL

[Crimson Wife]

My DD has missed some words due to unfamiliarity. She missed the word "newspaper" on the WPPSI, which I absolutely believe is a generational thing since we read our news online or on our phones rather than print paper. She also missed the word "cellar" on one of the standardized tests (I believe it was the CAT) because few homes out here in CA even have one, and if they do, it's called "the basement".

[Uff Da!]

nm

[stripe]

A cellar? Brand names?! What? That's horrible!

[SKL]

If they were asking for cultural (like TV culture) knowledge then yes, I can relate. I'm not sure what test DD took initially but they were asking her about cool-aide, the names of candy bars and other things that I don't expose her to. She didn't stand a chance.:lol:

 

Yeah, that reminds me about the assignment my kids had a couple of weeks ago. They were supposed to write out the steps for making breakfast. As in breakfast cereal. Except that we almost never do the bowl of cereal with milk thing. They have a liquid yogurt to drink and they eat dry cereal out of the box. Sometimes they have their (dry) cereal in the car on the way to school. So they had to wing that assignment. They also told me that their teacher informed them that oatmeal is a breakfast food, not a supper food. I informed them that that was a narrow-minded view of the matter. :tongue_smilie:

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Yeah, that reminds me about the assignment my kids had a couple of weeks ago. They were supposed to write out the steps for making breakfast. As in breakfast cereal. Except that we almost never do the bowl of cereal with milk thing. They have a liquid yogurt to drink and they eat dry cereal out of the box. Sometimes they have their (dry) cereal in the car on the way to school. So they had to wing that assignment. They also told me that their teacher informed them that oatmeal is a breakfast food, not a supper food. I informed them that that was a narrow-minded view of the matter. :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol: What, the teacher has never heard of Brenner?

 

My kids have a lot of pop culture gaps, too. We were driving around looking at Christmas light displays with a friend. She excitedly pointed out and identified Rudolph the Reindeer and ds was :confused:. They also don't eat string cheese like kids. I tried to show them the "right" way to eat it, but they weren't impressed. And now that I think about it, I should probably go and get them juice boxes and teach them how to use one...

[SKL]

:lol: What, the teacher has never heard of Brenner?

 

My kids have a lot of pop culture gaps, too. We were driving around looking at Christmas light displays with a friend. She excitedly pointed out and identified Rudolph the Reindeer and ds was :confused:. They also don't eat string cheese like kids. I tried to show them the "right" way to eat it, but they weren't impressed. And now that I think about it, I should probably go and get them juice boxes and teach them how to use one...

 

Couple weeks ago in church, the lady who does the "children's moment" brought those liquid "pushup" things that you're supposed to freeze to get flavored ice. My clueless kids could not tell what that was and how it could be transformed into its edible form. I guess I've failed as a mother.;)

[EKS]

My son didn't do as well as I would have expected on the vocabulary section of the ITBS in K (taking the 1st grade test). It was because he misinterpreted the pictures, not because he didn't understand the words.

 

This is why, if at all possible, it is important to give these tests yourself, so you can see what the problems are.

Edited June 7, 2012 by EKS

[snowbeltmom]

Yeah, that reminds me about the assignment my kids had a couple of weeks ago. They were supposed to write out the steps for making breakfast. As in breakfast cereal. Except that we almost never do the bowl of cereal with milk thing. :tongue_smilie:

This reminds me of the silly tests my dd brought home in first grade - usually with a bunch marked incorrect. I remember one question where there were four pictures listed: a group of baking ingredients in a pantry, measuring devices and a mixing bowl, an oven, and then the finished baked item. The kids were suppose to number the steps from 1st to last.

 

My dd missed the problem because she listed the "oven" as the first step. We do a lot of baking at home and we always pre-heat the oven before we get out the supplies.

 

I have also been told by more than one teacher that many advanced kids test poorly on the reading comprehension sections of these standardized tests in elementary school because these kids "read more" into the question and end up getting the question wrong.

[snowbeltmom]

A cellar? Brand names?! What? That's horrible!

 

These tests can be ridiculous. My dd tested extremely high in the "concrete" areas when she was in p.s 1st grade, but was only in the 13% on the social studies section and only around the 75% on the "reading section" - which was nothing but pictures.

 

This is one of the reasons that now that we are homeschooling, I don't have my kids start testing until middle school - and then we use the SAT. The other tests are just too poorly written, imo, to get any worthwhile information.

[happyhomemaker]

I have also been told by more than one teacher that many advanced kids test poorly on the reading comprehension sections of these standardized tests in elementary school because these kids "read more" into the question and end up getting the question wrong.

 

When my brother was little, one of the questions on his standardized test was a story about a little girl who couldn't play outside because it was raining. The rain stopped, what happened next? He put that she couldn't go outside and got it wrong. Mom asked him about it later, and he told her that the ground would still be wet and that there was no way the girl would get permission to go out. :D

[snowbeltmom]

When my brother was little, one of the questions on his standardized test was a story about a little girl who couldn't play outside because it was raining. The rain stopped, what happened next? He put that she couldn't go outside and got it wrong. Mom asked him about it later, and he told her that the ground would still be wet and that there was no way the girl would get permission to go out. :D

 

:lol: At my oldest's Montessori school, the kids in 4th grade and up took the Olsat and the Stanford Achievement tests each year. My son's Stanford Achievement score % were always way below the Olsat % (except for math).

 

His teacher told me that he would guess which questions my son would answer "incorrectly" and, sure enough, the questions my son missed were the ones his teacher predicted he would.

[SKL]

Well, your replies have made me feel better! I should have noted this was the 1st grade test (intended for K7 through 1-Something?), which may also have made a difference.

 

Makes me wonder why they test for vocabulary in the first place.

[stripe]

Couple weeks ago in church, the lady who does the "children's moment" brought those liquid "pushup" things that you're supposed to freeze to get flavored ice. My clueless kids could not tell what that was and how it could be transformed into its edible form. I guess I've failed as a mother.;)

We see these at the grocery store. My kids are always drawn to them by their violently neon colors. Neighbor kids seem to eat them, though, judging from all the wrappers I come across.

 

And now that I think about it, I should probably go and get them juice boxes and teach them how to use one...

My kids drink juice boxes at times. Is this not normal? I buy them at grocery stores and keep them handy for picnics and whatnot. I also whip them out when they're sick and not drinking as a way to get some fluids down.

 

We were at a science museum kids' day and the leader did this demo that was supposed to mystify them. My son immediately could detect from the smell that it was yeast. I was a bit amused.

[SKL]

We see these at the grocery store.

 

They aren't to be found at the grocery store we frequent. :D I did see them at WalMart the other day, but we only hit WalMart every few months.

 

Who knew that being a rebel would harm my kids so much?

[Crimson Wife]

My son didn't do as well as I would have expected on the vocabulary section of the ITBS in K (taking the 1st grade test). It was because he misinterpreted the pictures, not because he didn't understand the words.

 

My DS was in speech therapy for articulation disorder and his speech therapist would give us homework to practice in between sessions. I used to have to tell him the word that he was supposed to be practicing how to say because he would frequently misinterpret the pictures on the homework. For example, he had difficulty with pronouncing the -ng ending, so there would be pictures of a king, a ring, etc. He would guess "crown" or "prince" instead of "king", and so on. I could figure out the proper word from the pattern of the included pictures, but that was beyond where he was at that age.

[Crimson Wife]

My kids drink juice boxes at times. Is this not normal?

 

My kids drink water or milk (non-dairy since last year) but they do know how to use juice boxes from parties and the occasional restaurant meal. My 9 y.o. was mystified by a Capri Sun pouch given as a snack at some group activity a few months back. That is not a drink typically served in our social circle (similar to how she didn't know a few weeks ago what Cool Whip or Miracle Whip were).

[wapiti]

And now that I think about it, I should probably go and get them juice boxes and teach them how to use one...

 

FWIW, my kids don't drink juice (except for special occasions or whenever they can get away with it), but they've had plenty of practice with milk boxes. Dd, almost 3, can sometimes manage to open the straw and insert it by herself.

[boscopup]

DS1 learned how to use a juice box when he was 6. :lol: We drink milk or water here. I sometimes buy orange juice lately so they can make juice pops (thank you, Blue's Clues book)... which is funny because they go nuts over having this special treat of frozen orange juice. :D

 

I'm not a health food nut or anything, but I've never really gotten my kids hooked on juice. If we do buy it for illness or something, I usually get a jug, since that's cheaper than the boxes. Though since we started having large gatherings at our house now and then (it's a farm), DH keeps Capri Suns stocked in a fridge in the garage. So the kids have now learned that they get those during parties, and thus my 3 and 5 year olds know how to use them.

 

We haven't done standardized testing, but I could sooooo see my 5 year old having issues with one. He's the one that in Singapore EM K book A, said one of the aliens was different from the other 2 aliens and the little boy. The alien he chose had spots, and the others didn't. :tongue_smilie: Obviously, the little boy was the answer most people would select. DS2 tends to notice the little details and miss the big picture. And he was technically correct, if you were grouping by spots vs. no-spots. :D

[stripe]

My kids drink water or milk (non-dairy since last year) but they do know how to use juice boxes from parties and the occasional restaurant meal. My 9 y.o. was mystified by a Capri Sun pouch given as a snack at some group activity a few months back. That is not a drink typically served in our social circle (similar to how she didn't know a few weeks ago what Cool Whip or Miracle Whip were).

I just didn't know homeschooling meant eating everything at home or eating an all natural diet, or that juice boxes must be sugary, for that matter. I get the 100% juice ones for my kids as a convenience when planning eating outdoors. They don't drink much juice, for that matter, but I didn't think this was a litmus test. ;)

 

My kids have been given juice boxes (100% juice) at the doctor's office several times. When they needed to give a urine sample, when one got eye drops, and when one was very sick and not drinking anything. Both my kids (separately) were given popsicles at the emergency room.

 

The grocery store I have seen the popsicle pouch things in is a store that sells almost exclusively produce. I have no idea why they also sell popsicle things and microwave popcorn in giant bins. I don't shop at Walmart, but given the giant size, I don't think there's much they don't have.

[catz]

I think testing young kids is such a gamble. I had my youngest do the oral peabody today and even the tester said she gave up incredibly fast and knew her scores weren't in the range they could be. After a snack or on a bad weather day or if the moon was in a different phase or if she wasn't celebrating her birthday tomorrow :tongue_smilie:, we could have seen better scores. My oldest has been tested enough times that if I see an oddball low score here or there, it doesn't freak me out. They both test above grade level in everything, but jeez. My youngest tested highest today in spelling, many grade levels ahead. ROFL - that is absolutely her worst subject. :lol:

 

Anyway, I've come around to realize that test taking is a skill some gifted kids have naturally and some don't. I was the exact same way - my test scores didn't reflect ability until I was older. I'm definitely going to be doing test taking as a learned skill for both my kids. My oldest did a small amount of test practice in reading comprehension because that was often his lowball scores. That was his stand out score this year.

 

At least for my kids, it's definitely not worth losing sleep over this stuff. Especially if what you're seeing at home isn't reflected by a score.

[lionfamily1999]

My youngest does not do well with vocabulary tests (he has taken two standardized tests this year for my own reasons). His problem is being too creative or putting too much thought into it. For instance, when asked to choose which animal would be happy in an aquarium he chose the cat. Now, he knows what an aquarium is, but his reasoning was that cats love to eat fish, so the cat would be the happiest one to get into an aquarium.

 

He is teaching me why standardized tests do not work for everyone.

[catz]

His problem is being too creative or putting too much thought into it.

 

I think this is a problem for many out of the box thinkers. That was definitely my oldest problem in reading comprehension. I keep reminding him on tests like this that the simplest most straightforward answer is usually the right one. We're a very out of the box, visual spatial group at our house and don't always follow linear thinking ideas naturally.

[Crimson Wife]

I just didn't know homeschooling meant eating everything at home or eating an all natural diet, or that juice boxes must be sugary, for that matter.

 

I don't think it's a homeschooling thing at all, because most of the moms I know with kids in private or public school don't give their kids juice regularly either. Our pediatrician made a big deal out of the "milk or water only" thing when my oldest was a toddler and HS wasn't even on our radar at all at that point. Our dentist always asks about juice consumption as well.

[FairProspects]

My son didn't do as well as I would have expected on the vocabulary section of the ITBS in K (taking the 1st grade test). It was because he misinterpreted the pictures, not because he didn't understand the words.

 

This is why, if at all possible, it is important to give these tests yourself, so you can see what the problems are.

 

:iagree:This happened to us as well. Ds also missed quite a bit of the vocabulary because it was "school" words or pictures like cafeteria, auditorium, etc.

[SKL]

I don't think it's a homeschooling thing at all, because most of the moms I know with kids in private or public school don't give their kids juice regularly either. Our pediatrician made a big deal out of the "milk or water only" thing when my oldest was a toddler and HS wasn't even on our radar at all at that point. Our dentist always asks about juice consumption as well.

 

I think the only reason "juice" is such a hot button is that up until recently, it was marketed as a "healthy" drink and folks assumed your kids could not get too much of it. As I tell my sugar-maniac, even 100% juice is full of sugar, and it counts against her sugar limits. Which means I never buy juice. But other families might have good reasons to buy juice.

 

My kids' school asks me to pack a juice box in sack lunches, presumably because it doesn't have to be kept cold. Instead, I put a liquid yogurt in the freezer for a while before assembling the lunch.

 

There are also milk boxes that are just like juice boxes. The milk does not need to be kept cool. I used to keep these on hand when my kids were tots, because we often had to eat on the fly. Nowadays, I plan our on-the-fly picnics to include a drink at the water fountain. Less is more!

[wapiti]

As I tell my sugar-maniac, even 100% juice is full of sugar, and it counts against her sugar limits.

 

Yes, this. My kids are not exactly healthy eaters, and get too much sugar elsewhere. Plus, one or two of the kids get certain types of potty issues from juice that i'd prefer to avoid. Every dental visit ends with a huge sigh of relief (as in, "it's a miracle!" Knocking on lots of wood that the miracles continue!!!).

 

As for the vocab, I try not to worry about it. Vocabulary has been a weakness for dd long term, and her recent ITBS had a vocab score right around the 50th percentile. I didn't think too much about it, though it does stick out dramatically from the other scores (there are those really long bars from the middle and up for all the other scores and a nearly empty spot at the vocabulary line)

Edited June 7, 2012 by wapiti

[lionfamily1999]

I think this is a problem for many out of the box thinkers. That was definitely my oldest problem in reading comprehension. I keep reminding him on tests like this that the simplest most straightforward answer is usually the right one. We're a very out of the box, visual spatial group at our house and don't always follow linear thinking ideas naturally.

 

Both of my older ones have that problen, but learned early how to test well, iow to give them what they want. Luke is off their beaten track, my first time with a non-tester, and I am going to go with the portfolio option if he continues this way once the school district starts requiring scores.

[happymomofboys]

Did you see how many questions your children actually missed? My youngest received a very low percentile score on the Kindergarten CAT last year, however, he missed very few questions (as few as one or two) in each section. This year he scored much higher, though his ratio of correct to incorrect answers pretty much stayed the same. I think that percentile scores are misleading in the early years. Since I don't have to report test scores until 5th grade, I don't concern myself about them. I concentrate on the # missed instead.

[MomatHWTK]

My kids prefer a nice Coca Cola, preferably fountain drink stye. :D

 

But I would agree regarding test taking, you are always going to be able to squeak out a slightly higher score on a standardized test if you know the methodology. Teaching children to look at each answer before selecting and rule out the incorrect ones as well as deciding on the correct one is important. Otherwise, you will be tripped up by the "all of the above" or "both A and C" style answers. Often one answer may seem ok, but another is considered "better" as in the cat in the aquarium example. You have to know your audience basically. Though I didn't start teaching these techniques in K. Guess, everything comes earlier now. ;)

Edited June 7, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[stripe]

I don't think it's a homeschooling thing at all, because most of the moms I know with kids in private or public school don't give their kids juice regularly either. Our pediatrician made a big deal out of the "milk or water only" thing when my oldest was a toddler and HS wasn't even on our radar at all at that point. Our dentist always asks about juice consumption as well.

 

Well, every other parent I know loads their kids with sugary junk.

 

I allow my kids up to 4 oz of juice on some days (not all), acceptable per pediatrician. Again, my kids have been given juice boxes at the doctor's office many times. I don't see fruit, or juice, as a big scary thing. My children, all together, have had zero cavities. They don't drink soda.

 

I think it's kind of funny that homeschoolers think the "my kid is so innocent, he doesn't know what a juice box is" line means something. It assumes

* homeschoolers are fundamentally the same and fundamentally different from other parents

* juice boxes are evil

* being ignorant of evil (to the point of being unable to identify it) is a good thing

 

I just don't see what makes this so important that I (of all people, who consider myself fairly restrictive with regard to juice) have now found myself promoting juice.

 

To quote a mom I was chatting with a couple weeks ago who was delighted that my son so enjoyed the cup of mango juice she shared, "I give my kids juice to share my culture with them."

 

If a serious lack of knowledge of common American foods is standing in the way of higher test scores, maybe it's time to teach your kid to identify the forbidden fruit.

[MomatHWTK]

http://familymanweb.com/encouragement#sample

 

(2nd from the bottom)

[LittleIzumi]

 

We haven't done standardized testing, but I could sooooo see my 5 year old having issues with one. He's the one that in Singapore EM K book A, said one of the aliens was different from the other 2 aliens and the little boy. The alien he chose had spots, and the others didn't. :tongue_smilie: Obviously, the little boy was the answer most people would select. DS2 tends to notice the little details and miss the big picture. And he was technically correct, if you were grouping by spots vs. no-spots. :D

 

Same thing here!!!! :lol: Also had a logic grouping problem of school, teacher, mother, father, student--which four are in a group? She said student didn't belong because students were small, and all the other things listed were large. LOL.

Edited June 7, 2012 by LittleIzumi

[SKL]

I think it's kind of funny that homeschoolers think the "my kid is so innocent, he doesn't know what a juice box is" line means something.

 

I think that comment was tongue-in-cheek because of an article someone published a few months ago. The article implied that if you don't send your kids to brick-and-mortar school, they will not know how to use drink boxes. There was a discussion on here (I think) around that time.

 

I think it's kinda funny that this thread became largely about juice drinks. :lol:

 

I can see it now on the next standardized test:

 

Q: Why did Jenny flunk vocabulary?

 

_ Because she never had a juice box

_ Because she is homeschooled

_ Because she is too smart for the testers

_ Because she doesn't watch TV

_ All of the above

_ I have to go pee.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

My youngest does not do well with vocabulary tests (he has taken two standardized tests this year for my own reasons). His problem is being too creative or putting too much thought into it.

 

This reminded me of the test the gave me in elementary school after I "passed" the GATE test. They showed me a picture of a glass of water on a table and wanted to know if it was half full or half empty. I had never heard of that before so I told them there was no way of knowing. She told me to guess anyway and I figured that if it was on the table that meant someone had filled it up, drank some, and then put it on the table for later. Therefore, half empty. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I think that comment was tongue-in-cheek because of an article someone published a few months ago. The article implied that if you don't send your kids to brick-and-mortar school, they will not know how to use drink boxes. There was a discussion on here (I think) around that time.

 

I think it's kinda funny that this thread became largely about juice drinks. :lol:

 

:iagree:This is why I said it. Sorry about hijacking the thread. :tongue_smilie:

[snowbeltmom]

I can see it now on the next standardized test:

 

Q: Why did Jenny flunk vocabulary?

 

_ Because she never had a juice box

_ Because she is homeschooled

_ Because she is too smart for the testers

_ Because she doesn't watch TV

_ All of the above

_ I have to go pee.

:lol::lol::lol:

[lionfamily1999]

This reminded me of the test the gave me in elementary school after I "passed" the GATE test. They showed me a picture of a glass of water on a table and wanted to know if it was half full or half empty. I had never heard of that before so I told them there was no way of knowing. She told me to guess anyway and I figured that if it was on the table that meant someone had filled it up, drank some, and then put it on the table for later. Therefore, half empty. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:lol: I had to answer that in high school.... I said, "It's half a glass of water.:001_huh:"

[Dmmetler]

The funny thing is that I'm half convinced my DD7's greatest giftedness is the ability to read test-makers minds. I've seen her answer a question and explain. "It could be A or C, and I like C better, but I know they want A." So maybe her high IQ isn't actually a high IQ, but just plain good test taking skills?

 

 

 

Although I admit this thread has me wondering what I'm going to see on her Terra Nova when her scores come back. Since she did it in a group administration and I was proctoring 4th grade at the time, I have NO clue what was on the test she took!

[angela in ohio]

My second dd has had the same extensive exposure to rich language and vocabulary as my first, who has an incredible vocabualry, but she doesn't absorb it in the same way. She has struggled with vocabulary acquisition. I realized it because of very uncharacteristic low scores on her elementary standardized tests' vocabulary sections, and we have worked hard on remediation. She needs explicit instruction in vocabulary, even though in every. single. other academic area, she picks up everything at first exposure. It's just the way her brain works. :D