Melatonin, 5-HPT...wow

[joannqn]

After having one of my most horrific days I've had in years, I took myself down to the supplement store the moment I had access to a car.

 

I bought something called Tranquil Sleep (they said it was their most popular melatonin-containing supplement), which has 200mg of Suntheanin L-Theanine, 30mg of 5-HPT, and 3mg of Melatonin in each 2-capsule dose.

 

I took it at 8:30pm, and ended up turning out the lights around 10pm. Next thing I know I'm waking up at 3am to use the restroom. I don't remember seeing the clock after 11pm, so I must have fallen to sleep pretty quickly. I did have a rather disturbing dream...not scary, just emotionally upsetting. After using the restroom, I was asleep again around 4am. Then I woke up at 6:30am feeling pretty good.

 

I can't tell you have good 7 hours of sleep feel! I'm used to lying awake until sometime between 1-3am and dragging my exhausted self out of bed around 8am.

 

I took 100mg of 5-HPT this morning. I don't know if that is helping, or if it is just the side effects of getting sleep, but I'm getting stuff done without feeling completely overwhelmed.

 

The only issue is that I feel like I'm going to fall asleep anytime I sit down for more than a few minutes. I'm not used to being sleepy during the day, just exhausted...if that makes any sense.

[redsquirrel]

There is a difference between sleepy and exhausted. Maybe if you get some good sleep for a couple nights you won't feel sleepy either.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I've never tried (or heard of) 5-HPT, but it sounds interesting. I usually use melatonin but after 6 months or so it stops working and I have to get it out of my system for a month or so for it to work again. Right now I'm having to use an OTC sleep aid, so I can't remember about feeling sleepy all the time. But I (almost) always feel tired. Iron pills helped some, but then I had....um....issues with....intestinal discharge? I got so clogged up that I got acid build up and was really sick. (Sorry, OT and TMI.)

 

So, maybe try a multi-vitamin with some B or iron and see if it helps. I have heard it has helped a lot of people.

[elfgivas]

i kept looking for the "like" button! that's great news.... i am SO glad it helped, and hope the odd dream was more something you ate than the supplement :001_smile::001_smile:. sleep matters!

 

smiling,

ann

[swellmomma]

5-HTP is what ds13 was put on to help with his moods while we continue testing before resorting to the big meds. I know it is helping but not enough. I started taking it though and feel great with it. I take 100 mg twice a day. Ds is on 200mg twice a day and we have been given the green light to go up to 250mg twice a day now.

[Shellydon]

I use 5HTP and don't have bad dreams. If I take melatonin, I have horrid dreams.

[sunflowerlady]

5HTP is great but it can make you feel tired. Sometimes taking it in the afternoon helps. Also, I like to find the 50 mg dose and take one in the morning and one later in the afternoon.

[amy g.]

I love 5HTP, but I have to take it at night, or I get sleepy in the day.

[Peaceful Isle]

I've heard of 5HTP before, tried it, and it gave me such a bad headache. I'm soo glad you got a pretty good night sleep! Hopefully you'll get more in the days to come!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

The dreams went away for me as I got used to it. I'm another one who can only take it before bed. And it still works fine for me. I'm glad that you got some sleep!

[nukeswife]

If I'm having trouble falling asleep I take 1mg of melatonin and within 30 minutes I'm out cold. I haven't ever had issues with dreams when taking it though.

[Faith]

I have been taking 5HTP 100 mg before bedtime and I sleep like a baby, wide awake by 5 am and ready for the day, no nap either. No bad dreams like many have. I cannot take it during the day or I'd be asleep. It helps with depression also. Sometimes I even take 2! Love it!

[Trilliums]

Sounds good! I didnt know melatonin could cause bad dreams as well. 5htp resulted in horrific nightmares for me and DH when we tried it years ago. At the time I didn't know 5htp could have that effect and it took us a few days to make the connection.

[Negin]

In case anyone's interested, I'll share the info I have on some of the supplements mentioned. I take them but vary them. I don't take any of them every single day. I like to rotate them by days or weeks. I find that they become less effective when taken for too long or every single day. I also go through long periods of time when I take absolutely nothing. Been doing that lately and I've been sleeping better than ever. Lesson learned: listen to your body.

 

5-HTP

Helps with:

• Sleep problems – quality and duration

• Emotional eating and evening cravings – helps suppress appetite

• Anxiety and depression as it increases serotonin levels

• Melatonin production

• Serotonin production

• Prevents migraines after using for 2-3 months

Best if taken sublingually - opening the capsule and pouring the contents on your tongue.

Try to avoid eating or drinking anything for 20 minutes before and after taking it.

No more than about 3 capsules a day – can safely take up to 400 mg per day – although most need less.

Loses its efficacy if taken every single day – best if you take breaks – sometimes alternating days – and sometimes take a break for an entire month or so

It may take 1-2 weeks to notice any effects and up to 6 weeks to notice the full benefits.

Be cautious about taking this if you’re on anti-depressants

 

Melatonin is a natural hormone that promotes sound sleep.

Acts as an antioxidant - early in life, the body produces an abundant supply, but as we age, production steadily declines

Helpful for more difficult insomnia

Cleans the toxins and free radicals from cells

Helps protect cells from DNA damage

Designed to prevent toxins from entering your brain

Has been shown especially effective at preventing free radical damage to cell membranes (one of the prime targets of EMFs from cell phones etc)

If melatonin is taken in the evenings, tumor growth may be slowed

Decreases anxiety by stimulating GABA (a brain chemical that calms you down)

Supports your immune system by regenerating your thymus gland – the center of immune function

May inhibit cancer-cell growth

In one study, breast cancer cells were dosed with the same amount of melatonin you’d find in a young, human body. Growth of these cancer cells was blocked by 75%. At the very least, this suggests that melatonin could be an important hormone in protecting against breast cancer. Melatonin has been used in high amounts – 20-40 mg – to protect against cancer.

Reduces toxicity from radiation therapy

Helps thyroid gland produce T3

Protects your bones

Helps body use zinc: a mineral needed to lower stress and increase appetite

Slows down graying hair

 

WHY WE NEED MELATONIN

When we stay up late at night or work night shifts, we keep our body from producing melatonin. This increases the risk of hypertension, heart disease, migraines, diabetes, obesity, and cancer. Studies show women night-shift workers have a 500% higher risk of breast cancer and male night shift workers have a 50% increased risk of colorectal and bone cancer. While not realizing it, many people increase this risk with inconsistent sleep/wake schedules - late night studying or partying or shift work schedules.

After the age of 45, melatonin levels decrease.

Those who are exposed to EMFs (and who isn’t these days) – cordless phones, cell phones, wireless – should definitely consider supplementing with melatonin

Melatonin is the only hormone supplement that’s safe to self-medicate.

 

GUIDELINES

• Start with 1 mg just before bedtime. Take 2 hours or less before bedtime. If this is not effective, gradually increase dosage. Melatonin dosages vary from individual to individual ~ and most do not need the highest dose. Ease into melatonin in increments. Some take up to 20 and even 40 mg.

• Do not take melatonin every single night – a few nights a week

• Do not take melatonin during the day.

• When you awaken after melatonin-assisted sleep, you should feel refreshed – not tired or groggy. If you do experience grogginess, reduce the dosage.

• Do not give to children

• If you wake up in the middle of the night, you can take another 1-5 mg.

• The time release version is best for people who don't just have trouble falling asleep but have trouble with waking up in the middle of the night.

 

NATURAL SOURCES

Walnuts

Fiber-rich foods such as brown rice, oats, and quinoa

Cherries—when tart—and their juice

 

Valerian is used in Chinese medicine for insomnia. This herb promotes relaxation and curbs anxiety. Take 400 to 800 mg in divided doses throughout the day.

However, long-term use of it weakens the adrenal glands. Anyone taking valerian root for extended periods will begin to experience fatigue, dizziness upon standing, headaches, and other symptoms commonly associated with hypoadrenia.

 

I have more info on insomnia and supplements. If anyone's interested, I can post them here.

[PrincessMommy]

Thank you Negin - this was very helpful. I'd never heard of HTP-5 before.

[Negin]

Thank you Negin - this was very helpful. I'd never heard of HTP-5 before.

You're welcome. :grouphug:

I love 5-HTP and first heard about it in The Diet Cure. She also wrote a book which I'm sure is also great The Mood Cure.

 

 

I think this is the one I take. I like to break open the capsule and pour the contents under/on my tongue and allow it to dissolve sublingually. That's what works for me and is what's recommended in the above books.

[joannqn]

Thanks, Negin.

 

I want to talk to DS's doctor about reducing his zoloft and trying 5-HPT with him.

 

I got at least 9 hours of sleep last night. Amazing! Last night's dream was much more entertaining than the first night's dream. Last night, I was sleeping in a bed with large bugs, eating bugs, and popping bugs like popcorn.

[swellmomma]

The limits you posted on the 5-HTP are not completely accurate. We have been told by the psychiatrist treating Austin (he treats his patients naturally so he knows his stuff with these supplements more than he knows traditional meds). Anyway he says we can go up to 600mg daily if we need to which would put Austin at 300 mg twice a day. So far out here I have not found capsules that open, only 50 mg tabs which sucks for ds because he needs me to split them which then makes him feel like he is taking double what he needs.

[A.Balaban]

I need to start taking Melatonin, but I just haven't. (I never want to buy it!) Last night before I went to bed, I had a headache so I took a Tylenol PM. I usually take half a pill because it makes me night of the living dead, but I forgot last night.

 

... I am like you today! It's amazing what a good night's rest can do. I have been sleeping only 3-5 hours this last week and it's been driving me crazy.

[melissel]

Aw, this thread is making me miss my 5-HTP :( (I have a big kidney stone, taking it makes that kidney ache, no idea why--can't wait until that thing is gone!).

 

Joann, if you're having crazy dreams, you might try going down to 50 or 75 mg instead. I can't take 100 mg because it makes me crazy irritable, but 50-75 is just right for my moods and sleep. However, I'll also say that I tend to have crazier, more vivid dreams when I sleep deeply and for a longer time period. Just the other day I had a dream about being in a building that was crashing to the ground after an earthquake--very, very scary and vivid, and I'm not currently taking anything! So your dreams might also just be a result of getting more, better sleep too.

 

Good luck!

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Oh me how I miss these!

 

I had tennis elbow flare up and took Sam- E for awhile: it helped tremendously : I also quit buying bulk laundry detergent, and using small bottles, and cut down on packing toddlers on my hip.

 

Sam - E is great for joint health and an anti depressant. I felt better in many ways while taking it off and on for a few years. It is expensive though and not for long term. So, I alternated 5 HTP with it which is supposed to help curb appetites and be an anti depressant.

 

I also use Valerian pills or Sleepy Time extra tea to help lull me to sleep and it works great with no grogginess, and no waking in the middle of the night.

 

Now I am pregnant so I can't use any of those things right now, but had used unisom for battling morning sickness, and found I could only take half a pill with multi b or I would be groggy as in falling asleep all the next day!

 

Cutting down on caffiene helps too, but I used Sam e when my dad was dying and it did help me to cope better. I have heard of some other natural sleep aids, and lavender oil is calming, so I love massage oil with lavender in it.

[Negin]

Last night's dream was much more entertaining than the first night's dream. Last night, I was sleeping in a bed with large bugs, eating bugs, and popping bugs like popcorn.

:lol: :grouphug: :lol:

 

Mine was of being at Dairy Queen ordering a Blizzard :tongue_smilie:. I think the ads for the DQ Blizzard are part of the problem. No Dairy Queens or pretty much any fast food in this part of the world.

 

I have a big kidney stone

your dreams might also just be a result of getting more, better sleep too.

Sorry about your kidney stone. :grouphug:

I agree about crazy and more vivid dreams not necessarily being a result of melatonin. I haven't taken melatonin in at least a month, probably more, and my dreams have been far more vivid, clear, and entertaining than when I was taking it. I've been sleeping like a log.

[joannqn]

I have crazy dreams normally. A week or two ago (before melatonin and 5-HPT), I had a dream about Thanksgiving at my pastor's house. People were driving off of a high dive into a small kiddie pool set in the street, only the kiddie pool was bigger on the inside so they weren't getting hurt when they hit the water. For Thanksgiving dinner, they were serving pot roast with a very large worm that had been sliced up and added to the pot and chicken with meal worms. During the meal, everyone sat down with their plates to watch the Superbowl.

 

 

I've been taking the Tranquil Sleep before bed and the 5-HPT in the morning. I know the latter will have to change if I want to be able to sit for any length of time without getting sleepy.

 

But 9 hours of sleep is pretty darn nice. And feeling calm and not stressed and overwhelmed is good too.

[PrincessMommy]

You're welcome. :grouphug:

I love 5-HTP and first heard about it in The Diet Cure. She also wrote a book which I'm sure is also great The Mood Cure.

 

 

I think this is the one I take. I like to break open the capsule and pour the contents under/on my tongue and allow it to dissolve sublingually. That's what works for me and is what's recommended in the above books.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm wondering. Why do some take just one or the other... but others are taking both melatonin and HTP5?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks!

 

I'm wondering. Why do some take just one or the other... but others are taking both melatonin and HTP5?

 

Because some of us need more help than others!

[Mommy22alyns]

I might have to look into 5HTP.

[joannqn]

Or because we don't know what we are doing.

 

 

I heard about melatonin here but couldn't try it because I was nursing up until about two weeks ago. It finally occurred to me that I can try it now and maybe get some sleep.

 

Someone mentioned the 5-HPT on another thread of mine as a help for ADD, which I desperately need. I was interested in the mood regulation part of it. The appetite help is an added bonus. I didn't even know it helped sleep until I saw it on the bottle.

Edited March 17, 2012 by joannqn

[melissel]

Someone mentioned the 5-HPT on another thread of mine as a help for ADD, which I desperately need. I was interested in the mood regulation part of it. The appetite help is an added bonus. I didn't even know it helped sleep until I saw it on the bottle.

 

Melatonin never really helped me. I did dream a LOT when I was taking it, and I didn't feel like I was sleeping deeply, so I never felt rested. Then again, I don't typically have trouble sleeping--I have trouble with staying up until the wee hours and then wanting to sleep late every day, so I was trying to re-regulate that. It didn't help. Maybe if I had insomnia, it would have affected me differently?

 

As for the ADD, the best and clearest I have ever felt was when I was taking 5-HTP and zinc (and a host of other vitamins) daily. Unfortunately, that was shortly before my kidney stone started bothering me, so I had to stop both. Since then it's been all downhill. If you're not already taking zinc, you might add that in too and see if it helps you.

 

On a semi-related note, I've been taking coconut oil every day based on a thread someone else posted about it curbing carb cravings, and I'm really seeing a difference. Someone else posted that daily CO is also helping their ADHD-like symptoms (or maybe actual ADHD, can't recall), so that might be worth adding as well. I've felt pretty clear the last few days, but I don't know if that's coincidental. Might be worth a try if you have ADHD (or even just feel scattered)?

[joannqn]

I've never been formally diagnosed. I have friends with kids who have ADD laugh at me when I remind them of that because they know that I do.

 

I'm not sure how to take coconut oil. I'm not eating it straight. Wouldn't be able to gag it down. It's awful in a smoothie, which I don't care for anyway so I only make them occasionally as a treat for the older kids.

[kolamum]

5-HTP can cause ugly dreams, as in very vivid. People who have that problem normally take their dose in the morning vs at night and have no problems them. BUT, if the 5 HTP is in the other stuff you are taking then that might explain the vividness of your dream.

[melissel]

I've never been formally diagnosed. I have friends with kids who have ADD laugh at me when I remind them of that because they know that I do.

 

I'm not sure how to take coconut oil. I'm not eating it straight. Wouldn't be able to gag it down. It's awful in a smoothie, which I don't care for anyway so I only make them occasionally as a treat for the older kids.

 

Hm, that does make it harder. I love the stuff, so I have no problem with it. You could also try fish oil or cod liver oil, which lots of people swear by for ADHD but which does not agree with me at all.

[Negin]

I'm wondering. Why do some take just one or the other... but others are taking both melatonin and HTP5?

Not much time and hope to give more details tomorrow. I take different ones and vary them.

I might take nothing for a few weeks or months - what I've been doing lately

Then I might do something like this:

Day 1 - Melatonin

Day 2 - 5-HTP

Day 3 - Valerian

Day 4 - L-Tryptophan

Days 5, 6, and 7 - None or one of the above

I try to listen to my body.

I have found that things work better when I take a break from them, vary them, and don't take the same exact supplement day-in, day-out.

Other times, I might take Melatonin or one of the above and that alone for a few weeks.

Whatever works. Again, listen to your body. Right now, I'm happy that I don't seem to be needing anything. This is a rarity for me.

[Negin]

I had a dream about Thanksgiving at my pastor's house. People were driving off of a high dive into a small kiddie pool set in the street, only the kiddie pool was bigger on the inside so they weren't getting hurt when they hit the water. For Thanksgiving dinner, they were serving pot roast with a very large worm that had been sliced up and added to the pot and chicken with meal worms. During the meal, everyone sat down with their plates to watch the Superbowl.

Love your dream descriptions. :D :grouphug:

 

I've been taking the Tranquil Sleep before bed and the 5-HPT in the morning. I know the latter will have to change if I want to be able to sit for any length of time without getting sleepy.

But 9 hours of sleep is pretty darn nice. And feeling calm and not stressed and overwhelmed is good too.

Yes, you may want to spread the 5-HTP out or take it a bit later, etc. Since I have the luxury of taking naps most days, I sometimes take one-three 5-HTP capsules starting at around 10 or 11 AM. You'll find what works for you. It is very, very nice to feel calm and not as stressed as normal. It's such a relief.

I alternate between 5-HTP and GABA Calm on our school days - sometimes I take none. But I can so often tell the difference on days that I do.

 

I'm wondering. Why do some take just one or the other... but others are taking both melatonin and HTP5?

I hope I explained it okay.

Again, I have found that for myself, alternating between them all works better. Others might just take one for a while and see how that works, before possibly trying something else.

 

Because some of us need more help than others!

Yep. :)

 

I do want to add that magnesium helps greatly also. Most of us are deficient in magnesium.

[Lori D.]

3 of the 4 of us in our family have been taking 5-HTP (helps ADD DS with focus/concentration, DH with chronic low grade depression from sleep deprivation from 24-hour work shifts, and me with mood swings/depression).

 

No problems with it making any of us sleepy -- if anything, just the reverse! We ALL had WAAYY too active, exhausting dreams when taking it at night. So we just take it in the morning, and the effects seem to be mostly worn off by bedtime, with only a small, residual effect of increased vividness and amount of dreaming. We all found it effective within the first day or two of taking it, and a gentle continued upswing in mood for DH and myself after using it daily for 2-3 months.

 

None of us have tried melatonin. However, I bought black-out curtain material and made extra drapes for the bedroom windows at night which work really well at keeping out extra light, allowing everyone to sleep without needing help. Our bodies really need *DARK* for sound, restful sleep, and modern urban settings do not really permit that. :)

 

DO NOT take it while on anti-depressants. NOT good to mix meds!

Edited March 18, 2012 by Lori D.