athena1277 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I distinctly remember learning long division in 3rd grade. Let's just say the first day the teacher tried to teach it, there were many tears, not just mine. Fast forward to the present and dd is in 3rd grade. We are using MM, which I really like, but when we got to the chapter on division, the author states that long division will not be taught in 3rd grade. I don't really understand why. Do other math programs include this in 3rd or in later grades? I am tempted to go ahead and teach it to her, especially if that is what other kids are learning at this level. Talk to me. When did your kids learn long division? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) :bigear: Also wondering. You could email Maria Miller and ask. I've emailed her questions, and she actually answers them! Have you seen her websites? http://www.homeschoolmath.net/ http://homeschoolmath.blogspot.com/ There is much good teacher training on these sites, and I try to spend time learning each week. But I don't remember ever reading the WHY of putting long division into the sequence after third grade. Hmmm.... I'll see if I can find it there. Good question! :) Edited March 9, 2012 by Sahamamama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 For MM, I think it's taught in 4B. But, yes, my daughter learned long division in 3rd grade. They really need to know their math facts, though. Or it will be frustrating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Saxon 3 introduces it toward the end of the year, but it isn't really taught until Saxon 5/4. I didn't learn long division until 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Interesting, I have vivid memories of learning long division in second grade. I remember tears on my part and a very patient and loving teacher helping me out. I am pretty sure we used Abeka back then, when does it teach it? It surprises me to not have long division until 4th with MM, bc doesn't it introduce multiplication in 2nd? Hmmm :confused: ETA: looks like Abeka teaches it the beginning of 3rd? They either changed it from ummm many years ago ;) or the school I attended used it ahead. Edited March 9, 2012 by ByGrace3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think typical grade is 4th, and Math Mammoth covers it very well in 4B (even getting into double digit divisor). Some curricula teach it in 3rd (Singapore comes to mind - they teach several topics earlier), but by the end of 6th grade, the kids are in the same place and ready for prealgebra. Math Mammoth is a strong program, so if you like it, just stick with it and don't worry about the sequence. It's a very normal sequence - nothing radical or "behind". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 When I was a kid, I was pretty sure it was in 4th grade. I know it was at the end of 4th in Plano, TX. I know for a fact that it is not taught in 3rd in our district as I've subbed in 3rd many times and they are working on multiplication facts this time of year. It is in the 4th grade materials through EPGY (of course, many kids doing 4th grade EPGY are younger than 4th grade age). I've just always considered it a 4th grade topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ds learned the basics of it near the end of BJU 3rd grade math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Horizons math starts long division in the middle of 3rd grade. You could check the various scope and sequences as a guide of what is generally taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingmydream Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think 4th, but most of the advanced curriculums teach it in 3rd. That's exactly one of the reasons why we switched from horizons to teaching textbooks, it was just so much and so fast, not enough time to grasp the hard facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Singapore teaches it in 3a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athena1277 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Interesting that there is more than a year variation between different math programs. In 3rd MM does teach division in the form (not sure the right word) of long division, so it would not be hard to give dd an intro into long division with a single digit divisor. One say of long division won't kill her. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Interesting that there is more than a year variation between different math programs. In 3rd MM does teach division in the form (not sure the right word) of long division, so it would not be hard to give dd an intro into long division with a single digit divisor. One say of long division won't kill her. ;) Feel free to do whatever you want. It doesn't hurt to teach it earlier if your child is ready for it. My son learned tons of math concepts before we actually got to them in our math curriculum. ;) Just don't think she's "behind" if she isn't doing long division in 3rd grade. :) At the end of MM6B, some folks go straight to Algebra. It's a strong program. Long division in 3rd vs. 4th really doesn't matter, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I -think- I started working on it in public school fourth grade, and allegedly I was in the top two math classes in the school. I finally learned to memorize the algorithm in fifth grade with ACE PACES, which had instructions that read like complicated electronic instructions. I got around to understanding it as a teen, when I had to help the boy I was babysitting with his division homework. To answer the question, my three who can do long division learned it in different grades. My oldest struggled in math, and it would have overwhelmed him in fourth grade. I held it off until fifth and he did okay. My second one was a late bloomer academically; she wasn't close to ready until fourth grade. (That late bloomer will be starting algebra 1 before she begins 7th grade this fall, for what it's worth.) My current third grader is doing long division; he fully understands the concept and does it well. He is a strong math student and "ahead." Many of this boy's math lessons more resemble me teaching him the vocabulary for concepts he already seems to know. Edited March 9, 2012 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Singapore teaches it in 3a Yes, but not with 2-digit divisors not ending in zero until 5A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think 4th grade is "average", but it is all the current trend to PUSH as hard as children can be PUSHED. If you do INTRODUCE long division, I recommend only doing problems using 2s and 3s and make sure the student is rock solid in skip counting 2s and 3s and has the tables mastered. Really take time to focus on 2 and 3, before using JUST those mastered numbers, to INTRODUCE long division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 That's what I was going to say. It sounds more impressive than it was. At that point it was a very basic introduction. Yeah, that's where Singapore vs. MM scope and sequence differences really don't matter. Singapore does single digit long division in 3A and double digit long division in 5A, and MM does single digit and double digit long division in 4B, so ultimately, MM gets it all over with sooner. See? Doesn't matter really. Just do it when the kid is ready. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerPoppy Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think 4th grade is "average", but it is all the current trend to PUSH as hard as children can be PUSHED. If you do INTRODUCE long division, I recommend only doing problems using 2s and 3s and make sure the student is rock solid in skip counting 2s and 3s and has the tables mastered. Really take time to focus on 2 and 3, before using JUST those mastered numbers, to INTRODUCE long division. :iagree: 100% with this post. Also, don't forget that while there may be a year or more difference between the introduction of long division in different programs, there is *also* a year or more difference in the age of kids in any given grade. Tailor it to your own child. My own child is very young for grade level, so I was comfortable with introducing it only gently in grade 4. Why have the big scary struggle with tears in grade 3 (for some children) when it can be painless a year or so later? I'd rather spend the time solidifying base concepts and making math reasonably pleasurable. And in the grand scheme, it's not a big deal if it evens out in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 For long division, I think it's important to introduce the whys and what. Why are we doing the steps we do? What is involved in doing those steps? I agree with all the above posters, to do 2s and 3s first because it is easy; when we learned long division (Singapore 3), I had my son do it up to the ten-thousand place value so he could get over the fear of dividing large numbers. Singapore 4A briefly introduces dividing by 10s, so I had my son again do the division out to the ten-thousand place value so he could understand what dividing a number by 10 means. Doing the steps over and over and talk about the process and not just the steps helps get over the tears and fears. I also had him remember a "family" mnemonic: Dad (divide), Mother (multiply), Sister (subtract), Brother (bring down), Rover (remainder), Cat (check your answer). But we continually talk about what those steps mean so he doesn't lose sight of the concept in favor of the algorithm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in GA Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 FWIW, I know I learned long division in either fourth or fifth grade, because I remember what school I was in, and we had just moved to a new state the summer before fourth grade. I was in an advanced class (in fact, my fourth grade class was a 4/5 combo class) in what was considered a very good school district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garddwr Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I learned long division in 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheApprentice Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 MM introduces single digit division in 3B, we just started it this week. It will go into more depth in 4B, with remainders. I think it is an easier concept for the student to grasp if their facts are strong, which is the point of 3rd grade math. Strong. Math. Facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't care for the way SM teaches long division. Both my younger dds learned double-digit divisor long division via TT in grade 2. No tears. I can't imagine a better way to learn this. (Yes, I explain the concept.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Saxon doesn't introduce it till 5/4. A PP says 3 but I don't remember long division being introduced in Saxon 3. I learned long division in 4th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 We are doing short division. I explained how to do both, but short is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 My kids both learned long division in ps in 4th. Third was multiplication, facts and longer problems, then simple division. Fourth was more multiplication, long division and fractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It looks like long division will be introduced early in 4th grade with CLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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