HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hive runners I need some advice..... So, I've been running 4 months. I started slow, got a great pair of shoes and have really enjoyed running. Then I got shin splints. Okay, I switched shoes, took a couple days off, did stretches and strengthening exercises to help with shin splints. Now, my legs just hurt. It is more than shin splints now. I'm finally over the cardio shock and can run without feeling like my lungs are going to quit, but my legs hurt to the point that I can't sustain the run. I can power walk and bike with no problem. But, running hurts. I always start off with a 5 minute warm up walk, then start running and end with a 5 minute cool down. I've been using the John Bingham "penguin" program: walk 5 minutes run 30 seconds and work up from there. I WAS up to: walk 5 minutes, run 5, walk 3 minutes, run 5, etc. Now, I can barely do the first 5 minutes and rarely get another 5 minute run in at all. I either wind up walking the entire time and not getting in another run or getting a 1-2 minute run. I did have a sinus infection in Nov/Dec, but that is gone. We did try to wean off HRT but that failed and I'm back to full dose. The weather has been fine. Nothing else hurts and I am not sore the next day at all. I just don't know what I'm missing or what I should do to improve the situation. Could use some BTDT advice..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How many times a week are you running? If you're going every day, you might want to switch to every other. Sadly, some people just can't handle regular running. When I was in the Army, there were a lot of people booted because their joints basically just started to fall apart from the constant running. Part of the reason I was discharged was because my knees started to give out pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm running every other day. But, the weather has been very nice lately, so I've walked just about everyday. Perhaps taking a few days off would be best. But, I want to get moving and biking just isn't enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How many times a week are you running? If you're going every day, you might want to switch to every other. :iagree: When I was younger, my body could take a little more running. But I really can't run more than 2-3 days a week now. Triathalon training has been GREAT for me (swim, bike, run training). I am super slow these days and just plug along, but that combo has been a good fit. I used to have a regular yoga class too and that really helped stretch and strengthen some different muscles too. Wish I could still fit that in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgo95 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not an expert, but I was wondering what surface you're running on...maybe it's too high-impact? Are you running on grass/dirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not an expert, but I was wondering what surface you're running on...maybe it's too high-impact? Are you running on grass/dirt? everything here is concrete. So, I run mostly on the grassy areas between rode and sidewalk. It is not a smooth run, but it is "softer" than the concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was going to ask about the surface too. I can't run like I used to either, it's sad. How many miles are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was going to ask about the surface too. I can't run like I used to either, it's sad. How many miles are you running? not enough. I'm not getting that good "satisfied" feeling at the end of the runs anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Shin splints are awful; I used to get them when I ran. It did help to run on softer surfaces and with good shoes. My daughter is now getting shin splints. She got some good running shoes for Christmas by ASICS, which advertise helping with shin splints. So far her legs feel better, although she hasn't had a chance to use them too much lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvingLife Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have the same problem as you do HollyDay, I cannot run like I want to, and I am only 17! My joints cannot take the constant high impact of running, so I am power walking, occasional jogging, and biking. I would love to run but there is too much of a risk of injury. I know how you feel, but I really enjoy walking and biking so it's not a bad trade for me. Maybe find another exercise, I don't know what else to say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is it muscle soreness? Pain in a specific area? What part? It should not be hurting that much. You may have an injury that needs attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2hunangirls Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Have you been fitted at an actual running store? When I started running I needed stabilizer shoes....then after about a year I started having all sorts of pains. They analyzed my shoe wear and I no longer needed the stabilizing shoes. They were actually causing my foot strike to go wacko. Went to a neutral shoe with an insert. No go. Then to neutral. Now I'm perfect. NOW I can get my shoes anywhere as long as I get a neutral. But being fitted makes a big difference. Especially with shin stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsanmb Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Couple of ideas here: 1) Shin splints are almost always a sign of too much, too soon. Try a program like Couch to 5K which has a much more even balance of walking/running initially and very gradually progresses to mostly running over the course of 5 weeks or so. No one running program is going to be ok for all people; if John The Penguin Bingham's program isn't working, might be time to try something else. 2) Get your feet fitted properly at a running store. Most people buy according to 'what they heard' or 'this brand advertises that' etc. but there are tens of models by each brand, and they all have specific characteristics. Also, most people wear a full size bigger in running shoes than they do in other shoes, to allow for friction/foot expansion. Though you may love how your shoes feel when you walk in them, they might not be the proper shoes for you for running. Also, keep your running shoes to RUNNING ONLY so that you can tell if there are problems (it also helps you figure how much mileage your shoes have on them -- which will let you know when they're worn out). 3) Check out this article: Runner's World article on shin splints for ideas for exercises and stretching to do to help your legs get stronger. Shin splints are basically a mismatch of muscle fitness and you will need to improve strength and flexibility over your legs to adjust. 4) Invest in a foam roller. These are used for 'self massage' to work out muscle kinks. It is an unpleasant experience to use the foam roller (it hurts) but it is HUGELY helpful for maintaining good muscle tone. I think, honestly, there aren't that many people who *can't* run. I think there are a lot of people who did not work into it gradually, or haven't known to pay attention to overall leg strength, etc. Sure, some people's anatomies make running more difficult but in general we have bodies that are designed to run. I never used to think I could go long distances (over 3 miles or so) but in the last couple years, at the age of 42, I have become a marathoner several times over and run upwards of 30 miles per week when I'm not training for a marathon (more when I am). I am not a natural athlete; I will likely never break 4 hours for a marathon; and even after losing a LOT of weight I still wear a size 6/8. But I feel better, stronger, more powerful, and more in tune with my body than I ever have before -- because of running. If you like it, and want to find that, approach it slowly and steadily and let it build on itself. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Have you been fitted at an actual running store? When I started running I needed stabilizer shoes....then after about a year I started having all sorts of pains. They analyzed my shoe wear and I no longer needed the stabilizing shoes. They were actually causing my foot strike to go wacko. Went to a neutral shoe with an insert. No go. Then to neutral. Now I'm perfect. NOW I can get my shoes anywhere as long as I get a neutral. But being fitted makes a big difference. Especially with shin stuff. Yes, I have been fitted at a running store. I have 2 pairs, one Brooks the other Saucony depending on what running surface I'm using that day and the distance I'm planning to run. My feet feel great! My back feels wonderful! Those 2 area have historically been a problem for me. But now it is my legs and yes, some knee issues. Where does it hurt? Shins for sure, but not terrible like shin splints. Sides, behind the knee (not behind the knee cap, but behind the knee on the backside of leg), mostly front of legs. It just feels like they are about to "give out" if that makes any sense at all. Stretching makes it much worse. I've tried stopping after the first run and doing some mild stretches now that the muscles are warm, but that makes it much worse. One day after stretching like that, I just sort of limped home and took a hot bath (and motrin). This one has me stumped, no obvious injury, no one point of pain, just feels like "overuse" really early in the game...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Couple of ideas here: 1) Shin splints are almost always a sign of too much, too soon. Try a program like Couch to 5K which has a much more even balance of walking/running initially and very gradually progresses to mostly running over the course of 5 weeks or so. No one running program is going to be ok for all people; if John The Penguin Bingham's program isn't working, might be time to try something else. 2) Get your feet fitted properly at a running store. Most people buy according to 'what they heard' or 'this brand advertises that' etc. but there are tens of models by each brand, and they all have specific characteristics. Also, most people wear a full size bigger in running shoes than they do in other shoes, to allow for friction/foot expansion. Though you may love how your shoes feel when you walk in them, they might not be the proper shoes for you for running. Also, keep your running shoes to RUNNING ONLY so that you can tell if there are problems (it also helps you figure how much mileage your shoes have on them -- which will let you know when they're worn out). 3) Check out this article: Runner's World article on shin splints for ideas for exercises and stretching to do to help your legs get stronger. Shin splints are basically a mismatch of muscle fitness and you will need to improve strength and flexibility over your legs to adjust. 4) Invest in a foam roller. These are used for 'self massage' to work out muscle kinks. It is an unpleasant experience to use the foam roller (it hurts) but it is HUGELY helpful for maintaining good muscle tone. I think, honestly, there aren't that many people who *can't* run. I think there are a lot of people who did not work into it gradually, or haven't known to pay attention to overall leg strength, etc. Sure, some people's anatomies make running more difficult but in general we have bodies that are designed to run. I never used to think I could go long distances (over 3 miles or so) but in the last couple years, at the age of 42, I have become a marathoner several times over and run upwards of 30 miles per week when I'm not training for a marathon (more when I am). I am not a natural athlete; I will likely never break 4 hours for a marathon; and even after losing a LOT of weight I still wear a size 6/8. But I feel better, stronger, more powerful, and more in tune with my body than I ever have before -- because of running. If you like it, and want to find that, approach it slowly and steadily and let it build on itself. Good luck! :iagree: with all points. Stretches work for shin splints but you are probably wearing the wrong shoe. Get knobby roller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 :iagree: with all points. Stretches work for shin splints but you are probably wearing the wrong shoe. Get knobby roller. dh bought a knobby roller recently and I can certainly use that. I really don't think it is the shoes. I've been fitted at 2 different running stores and both times came out with the same shoe recommendation. I've even asked dd's ortho who is a runner himself and he recommended the same shoe based on my foot. I know the importance of the correct shoe so when problems started that is the first thing I thought of too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2hunangirls Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And pay attention to foot strike. I realized, because I favor my left side, my foot strike was more towards the toe. Are both pairs of your shoes neutral/stabilizer? My feet never hurt with the wrong shoes/inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 dh bought a knobby roller recently and I can certainly use that. I really don't think it is the shoes. I've been fitted at 2 different running stores and both times came out with the same shoe recommendation. I've even asked dd's ortho who is a runner himself and he recommended the same shoe based on my foot. I know the importance of the correct shoe so when problems started that is the first thing I thought of too. How frustrating. Work on the stretches. I used to get splints from jumping jacks. I don't get them anymore even while doing jumping jacks. Wait for the splints to heal, stretching all the while, and then try again. Are you stretching before and after your runs? BTW, I have the same hiccup in my running only it is PF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You might try incorporating some strength training to improve your muscle tone in your legs. If you can do weights squats, leg extensions and hamstring girls would work. If you don't have access to weights you can try lunges, squats, and eventually squat jumps. If you don't like any of that you could get a pilates dvd that focuses on legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsanmb Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Actually, recent research shows that static stretching before a run or workout is not only not effective, it's not really a good idea. Best thing is to do dynamic stretching after you have warmed up, and static stretching after your workout. It sounds like you need to slow down your progress (i.e. increase the walk to run ration) and ramp up more slowly, and also simultaneously focus on strengthening your leg and core muscles. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Actually, recent research shows that static stretching before a run or workout is not only not effective, it's not really a good idea. Best thing is to do dynamic stretching after you have warmed up, and static stretching after your workout. It sounds like you need to slow down your progress (i.e. increase the walk to run ration) and ramp up more slowly, and also simultaneously focus on strengthening your leg and core muscles. Good luck! I don't agree with this especially since PF sufferers are meant to stretch before their feet even hit the ground (and it works). I think, though, what is meant is to not overstretch as the muscles are a bit stiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I found with CP2 5K that I needed to do 10 minutes of walking at the beginning, and then stretch, and then walk a little more, and then run to prevent shin splints. I have never figured out how to avoid bursitis, though, so I ended up stopping. It's very ironic. I beat PF, and shin splints, and then foundered on bursitis. And I was surprised at how much I loved running, having hated it so much as a kid. That feeling of a real workout, like your veins are being rotorootered out, I don't get from anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I found with CP2 5K that I needed to do 10 minutes of walking at the beginning, and then stretch, and then walk a little more, and then run to prevent shin splints. I have never figured out how to avoid bursitis, though, so I ended up stopping. It's very ironic. I beat PF, and shin splints, and then foundered on bursitis. And I was surprised at how much I loved running, having hated it so much as a kid. That feeling of a real workout, like your veins are being rotorootered out, I don't get from anything else. :grouphug: Bummer! I am sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I found with CP2 5K that I needed to do 10 minutes of walking at the beginning, and then stretch, and then walk a little more, and then run to prevent shin splints. I have never figured out how to avoid bursitis, though, so I ended up stopping. It's very ironic. I beat PF, and shin splints, and then foundered on bursitis. And I was surprised at how much I loved running, having hated it so much as a kid. That feeling of a real workout, like your veins are being rotorootered out, I don't get from anything else. Yes, this is it! I beat one thing and another pops up. I beat that and another more difficult thing pops up. I've been told by more than one PT that running is just not good for me due to back and hip "issues" with structure (nothing out of the ordinary, just not everyone is built for running). But, nothing else feels so good as running! I'm about to go out again and try another run. I think I will take the advice offered from another poster and walk more, run less to build back up again. Very frustrating!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes, this is it! I beat one thing and another pops up. I beat that and another more difficult thing pops up. I've been told by more than one PT that running is just not good for me due to back and hip "issues" with structure (nothing out of the ordinary, just not everyone is built for running). But, nothing else feels so good as running! I'm about to go out again and try another run. I think I will take the advice offered from another poster and walk more, run less to build back up again. Very frustrating!!! I agree with the sense of "AAAhhhhhhh" after a good run. So maybe you could find some other intense workout that gives you a good sweat and just run once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Read Born to Run by Christopher McDougall. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsanmb Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just for information and reference: Static vs. dynamic stretching Running Times article Good dynamic pre-run/walk stretch routine from Runners World I can't speak to the specifics of PF, but I do know that what might be a remedy for one specific injury is not necessarily going to be a good policy for a runner with another issue and/or no injuries. Static stretching pre-run is pretty much universally rejected at this point. Of course everyone chooses to do what they choose to do, no harm, no foul. I've definitely found (after several marathons, half marathons, and assorted races at shorter distances with high mileage weeks) that the dynamic stretching, combined with attention to strengthening leg and core muscles, makes a tremendous difference in overall fitness and staving off training/overuse injuries. Your mileage may vary (literally! :lol: ) Good luck with your running and wishing you a complete and speedy recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsanmb Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Read Born to Run by Christopher McDougall. ;) :iagree: Great read and excellent food for thought. He also gave a really good talk on TED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't know if there's a polite way to ask this, but are you overweight at all? My own body can handle all kinds of mileage when I am within 10 pounds of my own normal weight, but I have trouble at 15 pounds over, and 20 pounds over is too much for my joints and frame. (20 lbs is a lot on my short body.) I can do lower mileage, but I can't do my normal 7 mile run without hobbling when I am overweight. It might not be the problem in your case though. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't know if there's a polite way to ask this, but are you overweight at all? My own body can handle all kinds of mileage when I am within 10 pounds of my own normal weight, but I have trouble at 15 pounds over, and 20 pounds over is too much for my joints and frame. (20 lbs is a lot on my short body.) I can do lower mileage, but I can't do my normal 7 mile run without hobbling when I am overweight. It might not be the problem in your case though. :001_smile: I'm within 10 lbs of goal weight (and have been for a year!!!). I was within 5lbs but went on HRT and now I'm 8lbs over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm within 10 lbs of goal weight (and have been for a year!!!). I was within 5lbs but went on HRT and now I'm 8lbs over. It sounds like that isn't it then! I hope you figure it out and can get back to running! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Holly, did your diet change? I'm having huge struggles right now with aches and pains, but I'm pretty sure it's the overindulgence in sugar I dealt with in Dec. Turned in a personal worst for the Disney marathon (like 55 minutes slower than my Boston time from last April, and I had issues that day!). And yeah, my weight is up, so it's a good question to ask beaners! Naturally in my case it's a hand-in-hand situation. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Holly, did your diet change? I'm having huge struggles right now with aches and pains, but I'm pretty sure it's the overindulgence in sugar I dealt with in Dec. Turned in a personal worst for the Disney marathon (like 55 minutes slower than my Boston time from last April, and I had issues that day!). And yeah, my weight is up, so it's a good question to ask beaners! Naturally in my case it's a hand-in-hand situation. ;) I've thought about that. Of course over the holidays I over indulged in chocolate. I did not gain even an ounce however!!! I don't think I'm drinking enough so I'm wondering if that is a factor as well. So, I've tried to be purposeful in my H20 intake and watch the chocolate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2l&j Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 HollyDay how are you feeling? I'm a beginning runner that fully anticipates my genetic knee issues to flare up at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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