"Any wide-awake 10year old can [pass the GED]" Huh?

[Ginevra]

I was amusing myself by looking through an old copy of The Big Book of Home Learning. I have a soft spot in my heart for that book because reading it caused my epiphany in favor of homeschooling nearly a decade ago.

 

Having said that, there's a place where the author (Mary Pride) is preaching the academic superiority of homeschooling. She seems to have the notion that by simply homeschooling, any normal child will be not just academically advanced, by years and years advanced over school peers. 'Scuse me but - what? She is speaking in one part about teenagers being able to take the GED at age 16 and hence, graduate early. Then she says,

But why stop at sixteen? Any wide-awake ten-year-old who is home-taught ought to be able to pass it...without excessive studying in advance.

 

Is there anyone here who thinks that is (or should be) a typical result? Honestly, it seems completely absurd to me; most notably because of math skills.

 

I just find that a rather extreme opinion, though I grant you, Mary Pride is not known for her mainstream views. ;)

[tex-mex]

Dunno...

 

Years ago, at the public library, saw the GED test book on a shelf and read thru it for curiousity's sake. I do have to say, the English and Mathematics portions alone would be quite difficult for even the average 10 year old homeschooler. And I am a former K-6 schoolteacher saying this. Oy! :confused:

 

http://www.amazon.com/McGraw-HIlls-GED-Complete-Reliable-Program/dp/0071381791

Edited November 20, 2011 by tex-mex

[myfatherslily]

Uhhh... no. I took the GED at 17.5 (when homeschooling, to cover our bases and make sure I had some kind of "official" diploma, in case I needed one). I got it with honors, but it's not like my score was really super. It's just that I wasn't a drop-out at the time! Could I have done it years earlier? I doubt that.

 

I don't believe that the average homeschooler is, or needs to be, years advanced over his peers.

[akmommy]

When is the last time she looked at even the practice test for the GED. I know someone who just took it and I think it would be the rare gifted 10 year old who could pass it. Having discussed the GED with him and having discussed the high school exit exam for our state with others the GED is definitely the more academically rigorous of the two.

[dsmama]

I used to teach adults and administer the GED (this is before it changed in 2002). The test is not a cake walk. IMHO, the people who pass it genuinely deserve the credential they have rightfully earned.

[Ginevra]

I used to teach adults and administer the GED (this is before it changed in 2002). The test is not a cake walk. IMHO, the people who pass it genuinely deserve the credential they have rightfully earned.

 

Well, that's what I was thinking. I've never seen the GED, but I do have a Cliff Notes GED study book that I own. There is no way my kids could have passed that when they were ten. Or twelve, even. And my kids are not dim-witted, either.

[TravelingChris]

I also used to tutor math for the GED. It was definitely high school level math that I was tutoring. Most 10 year olds haven't mastered high school level math. Like others said, I decided after tutoring that the GED was probably a surer way to make sure someone actually had a high school education than a high school diploma since from what I have observed, there are plenty of high school graduates who could not pass the GED,

[Rebecca VA]

Mary Pride and her family members are very, very smart. I think she was assuming the GED would be as easy for anyone as it would be for her. A naive assumption, and I'm sure she has had to eat her words many times.

[elegantlion]

I do think it's absurd attitude. Surely SOME 10 year olds could take the GED and do well, but it's a dangerous attitude to assume ALL could. Mine couldn't at 10.

 

I also believe it can create a mindset that any homeschooling is better than public school. I saw that a lot when we started homeschooling, people assuming you could pick up any homeschooling material and it would be better than public school. I don't expect my son to be years ahead of his peers simply because he's at home.

 

I don't compare my son to public school, but I keep track of what will be expected of him to get into college and be competitive. If he receives a superior education it will be because I worked hard to make it that way and he worked hard to achieve, it won't simply because we didn't put him in private/public school.

 

Actually, I kind of hate that we're better just because we homeschool attitude.

[Teachin'Mine]

The "claim" is absurd. I think that comment does a disservice to all those who study hard to be able to pass the test to advance in their job or further their education. There's enough truth that can be said about the advantages of homeschooling; that's not one of them.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Audrey]

I think Mary is indulging in quite a bit of hyperbole with that statement. But then, I think she does that a lot. ;)

Edited November 20, 2011 by Audrey

[Pamela H in Texas]

The old GED really was quite easy. I do not think it nice or reasonable to claim any 10yr old could have passed it though. It is much more challenging now. I doubt all but the most advanced 10 year olds could pass it now.

 

I also don't think it right to claim that homeschooling, in an of itself, is a guarantee to advanced children. First, one MUST put in the time and effort which a huge percentage of homeschooling families simply don't. But mostly, all children are individuals. Some of us have kids who are quite advanced. Some of us also have kids who find academics quite challenging (or even impossible). And of course there is every child inbetween.

[Ginevra]

I do think it's absurd attitude. Surely SOME 10 year olds could take the GED and do well, but it's a dangerous attitude to assume ALL could. Mine couldn't at 10.

 

I also believe it can create a mindset that any homeschooling is better than public school. I saw that a lot when we started homeschooling, people assuming you could pick up any homeschooling material and it would be better than public school. I don't expect my son to be years ahead of his peers simply because he's at home.

 

I don't compare my son to public school, but I keep track of what will be expected of him to get into college and be competitive. If he receives a superior education it will be because I worked hard to make it that way and he worked hard to achieve, it won't simply because we didn't put him in private/public school.

 

Actually, I kind of hate that we're better just because we homeschool attitude.

 

:iagree: I think that belief has led more than a few homeschoolers to low achievement, simply because they thought their children would be brilliant simply by being home.

 

Now that I think about it, what would be so great about having a 10-year-old who already has most of their pre-college education all worked out? If they were very precocious and bright on their own, then - fine. But if a parent made it their goal to hurry them along like that? Not a good plan, IMO.

[Chris in VA]

Ds had to take the GED to get into his college (or at least, the website said so...), so he took it at the end of his Sr year. He passed just fine.

Then we heard all kinds of extremely negative, disparaging remarks about how it was a completely foolish idea to take a test that would brand him for life as an idiot (along those lines, anyway). How discouraging.

 

I appreciate all of you who were more kind about it on this thread.

[NanceXToo]

I think she's out of her mind.

[Margo out of lurking]

The old GED really was quite easy. I do not think it nice or reasonable to claim any 10yr old could have passed it though. It is much more challenging now.

 

I am glad to know that it has changed (in 2002, according to a pp).I've been wondering for several years why ANY study/prep is required for the GED. But I took it back 30 years ago in high school as a way to cover my bases. Even at the time, I thought it was ridiculously simple. That must be the test to which Mary is referring.

[Ester Maria]

Is there anyone here who thinks that is (or should be) a typical result?

Based *exclusively* on the sample questions taken from this source, she is somewhat exaggerating, but she is not THAT far off - what these questions are about is not what I call high school level content (and GED is supposed to be taken for an equivalent of a high school diploma). The way I take it is that the statement about the age of 10 is a bit of a cheeky exaggeration, but if she had upped that a few years to the 12-14 range, effectively I am inclined to agree with her that indeed an average child that age *could*, in theory, pass the test - i.e. has the cognitive capacities to had been taught the content by that age, whether or not they actually WERE taught the content or no in practice.

 

If you click "social studies" on that link, I think most of the sample questions there are middle school level, honestly. #3-4 are maybe a bit tricky, but by quick elimination you can get the correct answer for the first, and with some more pondering figure out what they are aiming at in the second question. The rest of the questions are exactly what she claims: "#1-2 are banal questions which are about being wide awake more than knowing anything, #5 is about being able to skim a chart, definitely a pre-high school level skill, #6... does it need explanation? Just READ what they are asking and the answer is already in the question.

 

If you click "science" on that link, same thing. #1 is common sense via elimination, #2 is about osmosis, #3-4 are common sense basic science, #5... are you kidding me? Again, the simple ability to read a graph. In my view, these questions are also about being wide awake more than about having a specifically high school level of knowledge, which GED supposedly tests.

 

If you click "mathematics" on that link, #1 is about calculating the volume of a bucket (putting the numbers you have into a simple formula) and dividing it by 4000, and then opting from the equivalent or lower closest to equivalent number from the offered ones - it does not seem like a terribly complicated thing to me. #2 is about a bit of fussing with simple proportions; at a first glance, I thought "oh noes, triangles" :lol:, but it ended up that you do not even need that knowledge, it is all about simple proportions. #3 also sounds simple enough. #4 is early elementary school content - and you even get to use a calculator. :glare: #5 is basic financial math of the kind that a middle school child certainly knows. #6-7... again, do I need to comment? Elementary school content.

 

I only skimmed the reading part, but it seemed middle school-ish. The topic purposed in the second writing part is "What is one important goal you would like to achieve in the next few years? In your essay, identify that one goal and explain how you plan to achieve it. Use your personal observations, experience, and knowledge to support your essay.", which in my book counts as a VERY easy topic.

 

The first writing part is about basic grammar and some common sense style.

 

 

 

 

IF these questions are indeed representative of GED questions, I am inclined to agree with her basic idea, in spite of a slight exaggeration.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2011 by Ester Maria

[Ester Maria]

Ds had to take the GED to get into his college (or at least, the website said so...), so he took it at the end of his Sr year. He passed just fine.

Then we heard all kinds of extremely negative, disparaging remarks about how it was a completely foolish idea to take a test that would brand him for life as an idiot (along those lines, anyway). How discouraging.

Why would passing a test you need to pass to get into college mark you as an idiot? :confused: It does seem to be a fairly simple test, from what I have seen, but if that simple test is a college entrance requirement, then you go and pass that simple test to obtain what you want, i.e. get into college. What nonsensous remarks you were faced with.

[FaithManor]

I was amusing myself by looking through an old copy of The Big Book of Home Learning. I have a soft spot in my heart for that book because reading it caused my epiphany in favor of homeschooling nearly a decade ago.

 

Having said that, there's a place where the author (Mary Pride) is preaching the academic superiority of homeschooling. She seems to have the notion that by simply homeschooling, any normal child will be not just academically advanced, by years and years advanced over school peers. 'Scuse me but - what? She is speaking in one part about teenagers being able to take the GED at age 16 and hence, graduate early. Then she says,

 

Is there anyone here who thinks that is (or should be) a typical result? Honestly, it seems completely absurd to me; most notably because of math skills.

 

I just find that a rather extreme opinion, though I grant you, Mary Pride is not known for her mainstream views. ;)

 

I don't know a thing about Mary Pride, so I can't speak to her views. I do have an opinion on the GED in my state.

 

In Michigan, the GED is considered to test the equivalent of two years of high school remedial, not college prep education. I've known four young men who have taken the test and no algebra or advanced English skills were required. Unfortunately, the one young man failed twice before finally, barely passing it. I've seen a copy of a test from two years ago and I would peg the reading comprehension portions at right around "functional literacy" which is technically, according to the government, 5th/6th grade. I have to admit that a bright 10 year old who has encountered good, fundamental arithmetic teaching and has had adequate english and reading instruction, might very well be able to pass it and especially if this student has been exposed to standardized test practice.

 

This is one reason that many Michigan homeschoolers are adamantly opposed to their children taking the GED as a replacement for their parent generated high school diploma. Additionally, many employers (my dad included) will not hire an adult who has a GED unless that person went on to complete at least two years of college (and not at the local c.c. either because it has a very poor reputation for dumbed down classes).

 

So far this year my 13 year old 8th grader has taken a practice exam for the "Test of Basic Skills" for new K-6 teachers seeking first time certification, the AP U.S. History practice exam online, and the AP World History Exam online. He received a 94% on the test of Basic Skills, a 4 on the US History (equivalent to a B) and a 5 on the World History. Therefore, I think that it is very possible that he would have passed the GED (for Michigan - I'm not saying every state administers a test as easy as the one here) in 5th grade.

 

Many people confuse the GED as testing for four years of high school and higher level learning, it does not. It tests for very basic reading and arithmetic skills, the absolute minimum for functional math/reading literacy as defined by government entities - only a tiny bit of pre-algebra or geometry, mostly just the kind of math one would encounter in Rod and Staff for 5th grade, and no science, history, or advanced writing skills. It shouldn't be confused with the ACT or SAT. It is testing remedial education only. So, there is just a vast difference between the skills needed to pass the GED and the skills needed to get a 24 or higher on the ACT.

 

But, that is just my opinion. I'm sure others may think the GED is more difficult. These evaluations can be very subjective and of course the test varies from year to year.

 

Faith

[FaithManor]

Why would passing a test you need to pass to get into college mark you as an idiot? :confused: It does seem to be a fairly simple test, from what I have seen, but if that simple test is a college entrance requirement, then you go and pass that simple test to obtain what you want, i.e. get into college. What nonsensous remarks you were faced with.

 

 

Those were mean, offensive remarks. Some unenlightened colleges require homeschooled high schoolers to take the GED. It's really not indicative of how advanced the student may or may not be because it is a remedial test, but sometimes homeschooled kids have to jump these hoops to get into the college of their choice.

 

That said, I find it a little ridiculous that these colleges will not accept the SAT or ACT scores of the same student since these "college entrance exams" test much more difficult material than the GED does. If the student received good marks on the SAT/ACT than it is indicative that they are well beyond the "functional literacy" that the GED tests for and shouldn't be required to spend the time or money to take the GED. But, again, colleges and universities all have their oddities in admissions that we have to navigate even when it doesn't make any sense.

 

The military has been another establishment that would ask for the GED even if the homeschooled student achieved good marks on the harder, college preparatory tests. I did hear that there was some hope that would be changing, but I don't have any first hand knowledge that the policy has been altered.

 

Faith

[beaners]

It's information from a decade ago, but a friend of mine in college who had been homeschooled was advised not to get a GED by the admissions department at the school we attended. If I recall correctly, it would have thrown him into a different group for merit aid, and he wouldn't have received the scholarship he ended up getting. It's outdated by now I'm sure, but it does show the prevailing attitude toward the GED at the time. I personally would not have one of my children take it because I still see that perception of it.

 

Just to be clear, I personally don't have that perception, but I see it in the world around me.

Edited November 20, 2011 by beaners
clarify

[Rosy]

That is offensive (MP's comment). My son will be 10 in 3 months, has been homeschooled all along (until 2 weeks ago), and would definitely not be able to pass the GED, no matter how wide awake he was.

[Murphy101]

I'm just gonna nod my head in agreement and approval as I follow behind Ester Maria.;)

 

As to why the GED has such a negative reaction..

 

EM, it's a cultural connotation attached to that exam. Historically, it was a last ditch test of basic literacy and arithmetic for those who had already failed or dropped out of all other educational options. High school drop outs for whatever reason, or ex cons, and so forth. It was considered something they could do to get their life back on track so to speak.

 

From that perspective, the GED has this icky association that has stuck to it for decades, whether it deserves it or not.

 

For this reason, most home schoolers (such as myself) are very indignant about taking GEDs. The opinion being that the test is a statement that they didn't complete or receive an excellent education and a worthy diploma/transcript.

 

That said, I would be nothing but happy for someone who passed their GED. If its what they needed to do to achieve their goals, then that's what matters to them and why I'm happy for them.

[Stacy in NJ]

Beginning in 2014, they will continue to offer the current high school equivalency test but will offer a college ready level of achievement. I think the college ready standard will be good for homeschoolers. It will offer a measure of competency and credibility for college entrance that the current test doesn't offer, but without the whole SAT/ACT thing.

 

Just another educational option, really.

[Ohdanigirl]

I don't think so. I have been helping my BIL study for his GED. He has gotten very good scores so far (multiple subject tests), but he had to work hard to do it.

 

Danielle

[mcconnellboys]

In addition to what others have said, I don't think you are allowed to take it here until you are at least 16....

[cathmom]

Mary Pride IMO says lots of outlandish things. This is just another example.

[SonshineLearner]

I think the GED has actually been made to be more advanced in these last few years, rather than easier. The Math portion is what I'm thinking of specifically.... :)

[Spock]

 

The military has been another establishment that would ask for the GED even if the homeschooled student achieved good marks on the harder, college preparatory tests. I did hear that there was some hope that would be changing, but I don't have any first hand knowledge that the policy has been altered.

 

Faith

 

My son enlisted in the Navy this year. They accepted our homemade homeschool transcripts, plus copies of the yearly standardized tests our state requires and the homeschool registration card from the state (just to prove he was legally homeschooled). The only test they required was the ASVAB, which is required of all recruits.