unschooling vs classical or other methods

[happycc]

I homeschooled my first set of kids way back when and I feel that we did more of an unschooling method with them than I do now. Why do I use a more structured approach now?

 

I feel that unschooling my first set of kids did a disservice to them. They basically got the idea that they didn;t need to do anything unless they wanted to do....boy it has turned them into some lazy people. And everything must be fun or they won;t partake in it. BIG mistake and regrets.

Kids need structure and they need to do things they don;t want to do sometimes.

 

What about others on this list?

Edited October 23, 2011 by happycc

[shanezomom]

I started with a very laid back approach with our 10 yr ds. We have a very busy machine shop and I work many hours in the business and for the first through third grades I wasn't able to provide much consistency with our son. I knew he was learning all kinds of things at our sides seeing us work. He was "unschooled" out of necessity at the time. But this year for fifth grade we are into more heavy academics and he is balking at the work. So in that way I wish I had been able to provide more stucture. I agree with you that structure gives them a framework to predict and feel like they have some control.

[5 Hikers]

I started my oldest when he was in 2nd grade. My biggest regret is not doing my own thing. I let my friends tell me about CM and how it was better to be light. I still love CM, but dont think it has to be so light.

In 2nd grade I was having my son read 60 pages a day for Literature, but now in 6th grade I am lucky to get him to do 30. I back off mid-year and moved him down to 10 pages a day. I moved him up to 20 last year. I also made the mistake of waiting with my 7yo to start phonics. I wish I had pushed them more. I still cringe when I see people say, "Dont push them." Why not?

[Mjfb]

In my heart, I'm an unschooler. I think I would have excelled with that sort of schooling. I'm still constantly on the lookout for new things for me to learn- read constantly, research endlessly.

 

But that's not our reality. I don't think I would be a good unschooling teacher for my kids- I need the break from creating learning opportunities. I don't think I'm disciplined enough, and I'm probably not organized enough.

 

My kids aren't me, either. My daughter unschools her science in her 'non-school' hours. She's constantly teaching herself new things. But reading has been difficult for her, and takes serious hard work. Given a choice when we pulled her out of ps, she would probably have never learned. It is only in the last few months that she's realizing someday she'll be able to go solo in any book she'd like. My ds isn't self-motivated for learning, really.

[Guest IdahoMtnMom]

I think that is why I am having trouble sticking to 'just' ambleside with my 4 year old. We LOVE the book lists and nature study and handicrafts... but I have thrown in Starfall, MEP Reception, various worksheets, beginning handwriting, and a bit of French... and he still WANTS more. I don't want him to burn out, but I want him satisfied. My 3 year old has no focus so that is MY focus, lol...

 

I just CAN'T see waiting until they are 6 to do formal work.....

[lexi]

I'll chime in-We are pretty structured at our house. Our school isn't very intensive because my kids are young. But I have found that we MUST have some structure, some plan, or some goals for each day or our life falls apart with fighting and bickering. I know some CM schoolers who are incredibly relaxed but that would never work here. I've found that the days I've had a plan and organized activities are the ones that are the best days. We get the most done, we are able to keep up with the house, and there is minimal fighting and arguing on our structured days. Even they we have much play time and lots of art and fun cooking projects, there are some things that I expect of my kids, whether they want to do them or not. I think it helps foster responsibility. We'll see how much my ideals change over the course of homeschooling and parenting-but for now I'm loving some structure to our days. :001_smile:

[sewingmama]

I do a mixture of both with my DD. She is a highly motivated self learner and likes to have some independence over what she learns and how she does it.

 

However she hates to read and write - so every day we do formal instruction otherwise she would not choose to do it. In my mind by giving her those skills whether she wants them or not -will help her in her independent studies because how much can she really learn herself and how independent can she be if she can't even go to the library and get the information she requires for her own projects KWIM. She is too young to realise that learning to read and write will have benefits in the end - and give her the real independence she craves.

 

Also the State I live in requires that we follow the school curriculum somewhat- which means I have to cover 8 subjects and certain content at least loosely - so there will be things my DD has to learn whether she likes it or not.

 

I use the morning for formal schooling and in the afternoon my DD works on her own independent projects that I don't meddle with unless she asks me for help.

I feel that unschooling my first set of kids did a disservice to them. They basically got the idea that they didn;t need to do anything unless they wanted to do....boy it has turned them into some lazy people. And everything must be fun or they won;t partake in it. BIG mistake and regrets.

Kids need structure and they need to do things they don;t want to do sometimes.

 

What about others on this list?

 

We can find disagreement (politely, usually) about every possible subject on this list. You will find disagreements about which math curriculum is best, what (if any) language to teach, when to start, how much to do, etc. etc. etc.

 

I think one overwhelming thing we all do agree on is that every child is different, and every family is different. What may work swimmingly for one child may be a complete disaster for another, even within the same family.

 

One advantage of homeschooling is that it is not a one size fits all approach, either at the macro level of curricula; or at the micro level of what to do on a day to day basis. It is much easier for us to adjust to the needs of our students than any larger institution can.

 

So, I think you need to do right by your kids, whatever that is, even if it takes a few false starts to get there.

[veggiegal]

We can find disagreement (politely, usually) about every possible subject on this list. You will find disagreements about which math curriculum is best, what (if any) language to teach, when to start, how much to do, etc. etc. etc.

 

I think one overwhelming thing we all do agree on is that every child is different, and every family is different. What may work swimmingly for one child may be a complete disaster for another, even within the same family.

 

One advantage of homeschooling is that it is not a one size fits all approach, either at the macro level of curricula; or at the micro level of what to do on a day to day basis. It is much easier for us to adjust to the needs of our students than any larger institution can.

 

So, I think you need to do right by your kids, whatever that is, even if it takes a few false starts to get there.

 

:iagree:

 

My kids at 9 and 6 are still too young for me to have any sort of "gee, I wish I would have done X when they were younger" feeling. That said, our homeschooling has changed each year as their (and my) needs have changed. I use elements of many different educational philosophies, and have found something of value in just about all of them. But I am not wedded to any one--I keep what works, ditch the rest, and change things up when I see things no longer working.

 

We're more structured this year than ever before, and everyone is happy. And the less structured approach worked well with older when he was younger. It was he himself who asked me for more this year--and I obliged. You can call that CM (structured short lessons in the morning, less structure in our afternoons); you can call it unschooling (I was 'following the child's lead'); there are elements of TWTM (we're in the grammar stage, going for broad exposure to things, with the expectation we will revisit these same topics in more depth / a different way during the other stages; we take a long--though not quite 2 hour--break in our day). It doesn't matter to me what you call it ('eclectic'? :tongue_smilie:); it's what he/we needed right now.

 

I'll also add that I know many unschoolers who are now grown, and unschooling has worked well for them. I know one in university in an engineering program, one upgrading this year to get into nursing, and two finishing off "grade 12". The first I am working with in math, and she is very capable and self-directed; the other has already worked for years in an animation studio and has now started her own business--at 16! They are happy, productive people. Not that all unschoolers are, of course, but I don't think unschooling is necessarily a disservice. It all depends on the kid and the family--some kids do indeed do better with more structure, or structure at certain times, or in certain subjects / areas. And I think if you see this in your own kids, then even as an unschooler 'following your kids' lead', you ought to make changes. If my kid is asking for structure and curriculum, and happy when using it, and he is still self-directed and curious in all kinds of ways, ummmm...what exactly is the problem, unschoolers? The unschooler in me thinks I ought to follow his lead and do what he asks. Or 'strew' some curriculum / structure his way and see how he responds. If your kid is a happier / more pleasant kid to be around with structure--as mine is--great!

 

I'm gonna stop there before I start ranting about radical unschoolers. :D In general, I believe people who place an educational philosophy ahead of their kids needs are the ones who run into trouble--no matter which philosophy they are adherents of. Every kid / family / situation is different, and there is no "right way / best way" for all.

[LittleIzumi]

I'll chime in-We are pretty structured at our house. Our school isn't very intensive because my kids are young. But I have found that we MUST have some structure, some plan, or some goals for each day or our life falls apart with fighting and bickering. I know some CM schoolers who are incredibly relaxed but that would never work here. I've found that the days I've had a plan and organized activities are the ones that are the best days. We get the most done, we are able to keep up with the house, and there is minimal fighting and arguing on our structured days. Even they we have much play time and lots of art and fun cooking projects, there are some things that I expect of my kids, whether they want to do them or not. I think it helps foster responsibility. We'll see how much my ideals change over the course of homeschooling and parenting-but for now I'm loving some structure to our days. :001_smile:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I don't follow a method but I switched from unschooling to a schedule/routine. It's MUCH better. I do let dd unschool/choose her own science two days a week, but I have the other days planned.

[Mergath]

I don't think I could ever unschool. I find that, especially now as I get older, I need structure and a schedule. Even with dd being this young. If I just go with the flow and don't plan anything, I get depressed and feel like the day was a waste. Unschooling would probably drive me quite literally nuts. :tongue_smilie:

 

I like the idea, though. For certain kids, I bet it's wonderful. I don't think it would work for all kids, though.

[WishboneDawn]

My daughter was unschooled until around 8 or 9. We then went ecclectic I guess with a few bits of curriculum and are now very structured Classical homeschoolers.

 

She's got a great work ethic and does what I ask her to within her "school" time. She needs some extra reminding outside that but I think that's just an age thing at this point. My son is 9 and his workload has picked up considerably this year where before it was VERY light if we weren't quite unschooling and he does fine too.

 

For me at least, I don't think it's a homeschooling style thing. I think it's more been a parenting thing.

[IsabelC]

I think that a young person's attitude and work ethic has a lot to do with how they naturally are, and a lot to do with how they are brought up in terms of morals and values. As for educational methodology, undoubtedly it helps somewhat to do something that is a good fit for the child, but I don't buy the "unschooling makes them lazy" argument. There are unschooled kids who drive themselves far harder than parents or teachers ever would. There are strictly schooled kids who will skive off or zone out given the slightest opportunity. And there are the opposites of both of those, and everything in between.

[Corraleno]

For me at least, I don't think it's a homeschooling style thing. I think it's more been a parenting thing.

I think that a young person's attitude and work ethic has a lot to do with how they naturally are, and a lot to do with how they are brought up in terms of morals and values. As for educational methodology, undoubtedly it helps somewhat to do something that is a good fit for the child, but I don't buy the "unschooling makes them lazy" argument. There are unschooled kids who drive themselves far harder than parents or teachers ever would. There are strictly schooled kids who will skive off or zone out given the slightest opportunity. And there are the opposites of both of those, and everything in between.

:iagree:

We don't unschool, but we're definitely on the more relaxed/eclectic/interest-led end of the spectrum, and my kids are far from lazy or undisciplined. They do their own laundry, clean their rooms and their bathroom, do most of the sweeping/dusting/vacuuming, and load & unload the dishwasher. They feed and water the chickens (even when it's freezing outside), collect eggs, and clean the coop (even when it's 100 degrees). They help DH in the barn when he asks, and they help me with other chores around the house when I ask. None of those tasks are "fun" but they do them without complaint — which is more than I can say for many of their public- or private-schooled friends, who have far more structured/unfun school experiences.

 

IME, it's not necessary for a child's education to be heavily scheduled, or to include work they find boring or tedious, in order for them to develop a work ethic or be able to tolerate boring tasks; there are plenty of other opportunities in life to teach those things. In our family, we prefer "school" to be as exciting and engaging and interesting as possible.

 

Obviously different things work for different families, and even for different kids within a family, but I don't believe that unschooling = lazy kids. I agree with WishboneDawn and Hotdrink that that is more of a parenting issue than a schooling issue.

 

Jackie

[Embassy]

I've unschooled the early years and my kids have had no problem jumping into a "full load" starting in Kindergarten. I hold to the philosophy that learning is best done through play following the child's lead during the early years. It has worked well for my kids anyway.

 

I considered unschooling my older son after Kindergarten and actually unschooled him the second half of that school year, but it didn't satisfy him. Even now he has a hard time with formal school breaks that are over 4 weeks and we unschool during the school breaks. My older two are also unschooled during their free time. Unschooling is a great tool, but it isn't the only philosophy we use.

[laundrycrisis]

I've unschooled the early years and my kids have had no problem jumping into a "full load" starting in Kindergarten. I hold to the philosophy that learning is best done through play following the child's lead during the early years. It has worked well for my kids anyway.

 

I considered unschooling my older son after Kindergarten and actually unschooled him the second half of that school year, but it didn't satisfy him. Even now he has a hard time with formal school breaks that are over 4 weeks and we unschool during the school breaks. My older two are also unschooled during their free time. Unschooling is a great tool, but it isn't the only philosophy we use.

 

I don't perceive what is done during the preschool years or during kids' free time to be the definition of unschooling that there is question or concern about. When I hear "unschooling" I am thinking of a kid who is seven or older not having any formal, parent directed instruction in the 3Rs, and who is allowed the freedom to make all of their own choices regarding what/when/how/if they choose to pursue learning something. I also do not see approaches that are structured, but recommend delaying formal 3Rs work until age 6ish to be unschooling. I read too many books and spent too much time in unschooling discussion groups and with unschoolers to lump them all together. The people I have known to embrace the unschooling label and stick it onto their own chests are not interested in requiring their school-aged kids to sit down and do any structured and parent-directed work, either during the school day or at any other time.

 

I chose not to push our kids into the 3Rs beyond their own interests in the preschool years, and to keep kindergarten pretty light (like our PS's 2.5 hour half day kindergarten would), and firm things up for first grade. But I do not fit in at all with the unschooling crowd because starting in kindergarten, I "make them do traditional schoolwork". That fails the unschooling litmus test because it's "coercive" and it's parent-led instead of child-led.

Edited October 23, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[Embassy]

I don't perceive what is done during the preschool years or during kids' free time to be the definition of unschooling that there is question or concern about. When I hear "unschooling" I am thinking of a kid who is seven or older not having any formal, parent directed instruction in the 3Rs, and who is allowed the freedom to make all of their own choices regarding what/when/how/if they choose to pursue learning something. I also do not see approaches that are structured, but recommend delaying formal 3Rs work until age 6ish to be unschooling. I read too many books and spent too much time in unschooling discussion groups and with unschoolers to lump them all together. The people I have known to embrace the unschooling label and stick it onto their own chests are not interested in requiring their school-aged kids to sit down and do any structured and parent-directed work, either during the school day or at any other time.

 

I chose not to push our kids into the 3Rs beyond their own interests in the preschool years, and to keep kindergarten pretty light (like our PS's 2.5 hour half day kindergarten would), and firm things up for first grade. But I do not fit in at all with the unschooling crowd because starting in kindergarten, I "make them do traditional schoolwork". That fails the unschooling litmus test because it's "coercive" and it's parent-led instead of child-led.

 

I find unschooling to be a very subjective term. It can mean different things to different people.

[BlsdMama]

I was quite rigid and demanding when it came to oldest DD. Perhaps it is really just her personality, but she is very organized, structured, and a goal setter. It has allowed me to REALLY enjoy high school as I can now sit back and enjoy a mentor type relationship with her.

 

I've actually changed a few things I loved back to things I used with her, not because they are superior, but because they encourage young children to be more independent. I feel self education is my ultimate goal and I'm training to it.

 

 

ETA: BTW, I've blogged on unschooling (as definitel

d by Holt) before. One, it's entirely too child centered IMO, and second, rarely is a family curious enough to inspire learning in a wide variety of areas. I will say I have met a family IRL who unschools and does a great job and I love those kids. But the family is amazingly curious and active and interactive.

Edited October 23, 2011 by BlsdMama

[laundrycrisis]

I find unschooling to be a very subjective term. It can mean different things to different people.

 

Yes it can, but keeping the preschool years play-based and interest-led is not any different from what is done by most people who are not unschoolers as well. Unschooling is distinguished by a difference in the approach to learning during the school-age years.

[jplain]

Unschooling is distinguished by a difference in the approach to learning during the school-age years.

:iagree:

[laundrycrisis]

I homeschooled my first set of kids way back when and I feel that we did more of an unschooling method with them than I do now. Why do I use a more structured approach now?

 

I feel that unschooling my first set of kids did a disservice to them. They basically got the idea that they didn;t need to do anything unless they wanted to do....boy it has turned them into some lazy people. And everything must be fun or they won;t partake in it. BIG mistake and regrets.

Kids need structure and they need to do things they don;t want to do sometimes.

 

What about others on this list?

 

:thumbup1: to you for sharing this. I really think it would be helpful to people who are just starting out for it to be easier to stumble across posts that share personal experiences with the downside of unschooling. When I was "new" and researching approaches, the information I was able to find on unschooling was not balanced. It was all good...too good to be true for everyone. It is good for reports from both sides to be out there. I had to dig more and lurk longer and really pay attention to notice the people who were moving on after trying unschooling, because people don't seem to share very often about why it didn't work for them or about any regrets.

[Embassy]

Yes it can, but keeping the preschool years play-based and interest-led is not any different from what is done by most people who are not unschoolers as well. Unschooling is distinguished by a difference in the approach to learning during the school-age years.

 

I disagree that most people keep the preschool years play-based and interest-led unless you are talking about time apart from formal work. Many on this forum start their kids on some formal work at age 3-4. Many in everyday life place their child in preschool or K4. They may also utilize play-based and interest-led learning, but I know very few people who do no structured work during the preschool years.

 

Is unschooling only unschooling when nothing structured is done? I've seen many here talk about how their child is unschooled or interest-led in a certain subject and they do formal work for other subjects. Unschooling can be an overall parenting philosophy about learning or it can be child-led learning at any age. I find the use of the term to differ as it is differing in this thread. It is a subjective term.

[laundrycrisis]

I disagree that most people keep the preschool years play-based and interest-led unless you are talking about time apart from formal work. Many on this forum start their kids on some formal work at age 3-4. Many in everyday life place their child in preschool or K4. They may also utilize play-based and interest-led learning, but I know very few people who do no structured work during the preschool years.

 

Is unschooling only unschooling when nothing structured is done? I've seen many here talk about how their child is unschooled or interest-led in a certain subject and they do formal work for other subjects. Unschooling can be an overall parenting philosophy about learning or it can be child-led learning at any age. I find the use of the term to differ as it is differing in this thread. It is a subjective term.

 

People do all sort of things and call it unschooling. Some even put their kid into school and say they are unschooling because the kid chose to go to school. But that is not the prevailing picture of unschooling as it is described in unschooling-specific books and groups. They may do structured work, but only when it was the kid's idea and plan, and what and how much and when and how are left up to the kid.

 

I suppose someone can say they "unschool for preschool" and allow their school-aged kids some free time in the day and call that "unschooling time", but if the day includes structured work that involves a parent calling the shots, an unschooling grroup would be quick to say that is not unschooling.

 

It is not uncommon to find homeschoolers who blend parent-led work with some child-led exploration. But in the world of those who typically call themselves unschoolers, embrace that as their style 100% and promote it, it is not common to find people who believe in requiring their kids to sit down and do some work on the 3Rs, led by the parent and not optional. Because they tend to frown on that sort of thing. When someone has been deeply immersed in the unschooling philosophy, adding in some parent-directed work is something they agonize over and it feels like a big departure to them.

Edited October 23, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[Dmmetler]

The people I'd characterize as successful unschoolers tend to have very full, rich lives that teach a lot of skills in another way. That is, if you've got multiple animals to care for and raise and are growing a lot of your own food and making everything from scratch, and are selling your products at a local farmers market each week, plus each child is involved in very high level activities of their own choosing, whether it's spending a lot of time involved with a local radio station, competitive sports, acting, dance, or so on.

 

It's impressive, and there's no doubt that the kids are learning a lot and while they're not following a traditional path, I'm guessing that should they NEED to fill gaps in the future, they'll be able to do so.

 

But I admit my gut response is the same that my friends who send their kids to PS have about my homeschooling- "I could NEVER do that!".

[momto2Cs]

I do a mixture of both with my DD. She is a highly motivated self learner and likes to have some independence over what she learns and how she does it.

 

:iagree:

 

This is basically our approach too. I have structured math and language arts - reading for both, phonics for dd8, writing for ds10. I read aloud from an American history book once or twice a week, and they follow rabbit trails. They chose their own sciences right now - dd8 is doing nature studies, ds10 is studying anatomy. They have other interests that they pursue as well, such as art, music, cooking, etc.

 

I find that a mix of structured and more unstructured works really well. They learn a lot, but they get input into what they are learning. If they want to go off on a tangent with history and/or science, that is fine! The more invested I allow them to be, the more I get out of them in return.

 

Edited to quote the following, because it sums up my feelings very well...

We don't unschool, but we're definitely on the more relaxed/eclectic/interest-led end of the spectrum, and my kids are far from lazy or undisciplined.

 

IME, it's not necessary for a child's education to be heavily scheduled, or to include work they find boring or tedious, in order for them to develop a work ethic or be able to tolerate boring tasks; there are plenty of other opportunities in life to teach those things. In our family, we prefer "school" to be as exciting and engaging and interesting as possible.

 

Obviously different things work for different families, and even for different kids within a family, but I don't believe that unschooling = lazy kids. I agree with WishboneDawn and Hotdrink that that is more of a parenting issue than a schooling issue.

 

Jackie

Edited October 23, 2011 by momto2Cs

[Embassy]

It is not uncommon to find homeschoolers who blend parent-led work with some child-led exploration.

 

Exactly. I think in the world of homeschooling it is a disservice look at the educational methods as one kind vs. another kind. As homeschooling parents we should do what works - whatever that is. I think the most efficacious way to look at the different methods is to find the best elements of each method and combine them in something that fits your child. It will look different for different families. Many may utilize elements of the unschooling philosophy without being full-time unschoolers. Incorporating child-led learning into your day or delaying formal academics doesn't mean that someone is an unschooler, but they may be utilizing elements of unschooling. Maybe some kids and parents fit neat and tidy into one educational method, but I'm guessing most of them require some variability.

[Corraleno]

I really think it would be helpful to people who are just starting out for it to be easier to stumble across posts that share personal experiences with the downside of unschooling. When I was "new" and researching approaches, the information I was able to find on unschooling was not balanced. It was all good...too good to be true for everyone. It is good for reports from both sides to be out there.

I think there are likely to be far more people here with a negative view of unschooling than the other way around, though. And people who have gone the other direction — from structured to unstructured — would most likely not be posting here anymore anyway. Personally, I regret not having unschooled DS all the way through elementary school. He was unschooled up to the age of 7, and yet when he started private school he was ahead of grade level in math & reading and waaaay ahead in science. Within 2 years he was behind in math and reading, and by the time he had repeated 3rd grade he was not only still behind, he absolutely loathed reading and math and wanted nothing to do with school. It's taken a while to repair that damage, and I have no doubt that if we'd continued unschooling, or a blend of unschooling & interest-led, that he would have been much better off. I'm taking a much less structured approach with DD (currently in 4th).

 

I will say I have met a family IRL who unschools and does a great job and I love those kids. But the family is amazingly curious and active and interactive.

I think that's the key to making unschooling work. If the parents create a family culture that is focused on curiosity and exploration and a love of learning, then the kids pick that up. The instances where I've seen unschooling flop (IMO — obviously radical unschoolers often think the kids are doing fine) is when parents think that letting kids watch cartoons and play video games all day will somehow magically lead to an interest in learning about things they've never even been exposed to. For some kids that might work; for most it probably won't.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Exactly. I think in the world of homeschooling it is a disservice look at the educational methods as one kind vs. another kind. As homeschooling parents we should do what works - whatever that is. I think the most efficacious way to look at the different methods is to find the best elements of each method and combine them in something that fits your child. It will look different for different families. Many may utilize elements of the unschooling philosophy without being full-time unschoolers. Incorporating child-led learning into your day or delaying formal academics doesn't mean that someone is an unschooler, but they may be utilizing elements of unschooling. Maybe some kids and parents fit neat and tidy into one educational method, but I'm guessing most of them require some variability.

 

:iagree:

 

Jackie

[Enough]

[snip]I'm taking a much less structured approach with DD (currently in 4th).[snip]

 

Jackie

 

Jackie, I love your posts and what I've read about your approach with your DS, and I was wondering- have you described here at the boards the approach you're following with your DD? I would really love to hear more about your philosophy and what you're doing with your DD with the hindsight of what didn't work with your DS.

[laundrycrisis]

I think there are likely to be far more people here with a negative view of unschooling than the other way around, though. And people who have gone the other direction — from structured to unstructured — would most likely not be posting here anymore anyway.

 

I am not referring to this forum. I would not expect the less structured people to be posting here. And yes, there are a lot of people with a negative view of unschooling - but there are few people who have real experience with unschooling who openly share what parts of it didn't work out well for their kids.

[ElizaG]

I think in the world of homeschooling it is a disservice look at the educational methods as one kind vs. another kind. As homeschooling parents we should do what works - whatever that is. I think the most efficacious way to look at the different methods is to find the best elements of each method and combine them in something that fits your child. (...)

 

Incorporating child-led learning into your day or delaying formal academics doesn't mean that someone is an unschooler, but they may be utilizing elements of unschooling.

IMO, it makes more sense to look at unschooling as a philosophy (i.e., that children thrive best without required schoolwork), rather than a method. As far as I've been able to tell, any techniques that are actively used by unschoolers -- such as following the children's interests, or providing materials to enrich the environment -- didn't originate with unschooling families. They were already in use by the wider progressive education movement, as well as by many thoughtful parents of children who went to conventional schools.

 

I guess you could define "partial unschooling" as a relativized version of the above philosophy (i.e., that some children thrive best at some ages without required schoolwork in some subjects), but at some point the term is going to lose its meaning. After all, every homeschooling family (and every school, for that matter) has some subjects that they don't teach formally at all ages. Depending on the family and the child, this could be preschool in general; PE, drama, or art; elementary history or science; etc. To me, though, that doesn't mean that we're all "utilizing elements of unschooling." It just means that we've chosen not to teach that subject this year in an active way.

[veggiegal]

Exactly. I think in the world of homeschooling it is a disservice look at the educational methods as one kind vs. another kind. As homeschooling parents we should do what works - whatever that is. I think the most efficacious way to look at the different methods is to find the best elements of each method and combine them in something that fits your child. It will look different for different families. Many may utilize elements of the unschooling philosophy without being full-time unschoolers. Incorporating child-led learning into your day or delaying formal academics doesn't mean that someone is an unschooler, but they may be utilizing elements of unschooling. Maybe some kids and parents fit neat and tidy into one educational method, but I'm guessing most of them require some variability.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[MeganW]

But I have found that we MUST have some structure, some plan, or some goals for each day or our life falls apart with fighting and bickering.

 

Ditto!!! My kids are happiest and getl along the best when we are being productive!

[Rosie_0801]

This is reminding me of the "tidal homeschooling" thread from last week.

 

Rosie

[ElizaG]

This is reminding me of the "tidal homeschooling" thread from last week.

Sort of. But I don't think there was anyone on there who said that they unschooled just until kindergarten. Or that their children were unschooled in their spare time.

 

(My children are unschooled when they're asleep, and also when they're going to the bathroom. Unless they forget to flush. ;) Does that count?)

 

I was just reading this on the NPR web site:

 

Products R Us: Are We 'Brandwashed'?

 

It makes me wonder if maybe all this self-labeling -- classical, unschooling, CM, etc. -- is related to people's desire to affiliate themselves with as many "brands" as possible. It seems almost like a sort of new tribalism. But in a very fragmented, virtual way.

[In2why]

I find unschooling to be a very subjective term. It can mean different things to different people.

 

 

I agree. I love the idea of unschooling and it would probably work for my kids, but it wouldn't work for me. I get too nervous and too stressed to relax and let only natural learning to occur.

 

But I will say that I started out very structured and now I am becoming less structured. I doubt I would have had enough confidence and faith to homeschool without curricula and schedules, but now that they are in place and I know my kids and our natural cycles it is easier to let go on certain areas. I see myself becoming less structured as time goes on

[Joyofsixreboot]

Sort of. But I don't think there was anyone on there who said that they unschooled just until kindergarten. Or that their children were unschooled in their spare time.

 

(My children are unschooled when they're asleep, and also when they're going to the bathroom. Unless they forget to flush. ;) Does that count?)

 

I was just reading this on the NPR web site:

 

Products R Us: Are We 'Brandwashed'?

 

It makes me wonder if maybe all this self-labeling -- classical, unschooling, CM, etc. -- is related to people's desire to affiliate themselves with as many "brands" as possible. It seems almost like a sort of new tribalism. But in a very fragmented, virtual way.

I just heard this on the way home this evening. I never buy specific brands so I wondered what that said about my psyche. Then I read this and realized I have no real allegiance to any specific " brand" of homeschooling. Interesting thought

[Embassy]

Sort of. But I don't think there was anyone on there who said that they unschooled just until kindergarten. Or that their children were unschooled in their spare time.

 

(My children are unschooled when they're asleep, and also when they're going to the bathroom. Unless they forget to flush. ;) Does that count?)

 

 

I was the one who said that:) Maybe some view unschooling as passive, but I don't. I don't see how you can unschool during sleep, but my kids do listen to something educational as they go to sleep. You could unschool when they go to the bathroom though. Just leave some interesting reading material by the toilet or maybe put some educational posters on the wall ;)

 

Yes, I unschool my preschooler. I deliberately avoid formal schooling. Even when she asks to do something for school I don't consider curriculum or something like the letter of the week - we just do something informal like color or read together. I also utilize unschooling with my older kids as well. My sons often request books on a certain topic or specific books or DVDs. I give them to my kids and let them have at it. During the summer I am more active in providing resources for them to explore at will.

 

It makes me wonder if maybe all this self-labeling -- classical, unschooling, CM, etc. -- is related to people's desire to affiliate themselves with as many "brands" as possible. It seems almost like a sort of new tribalism. But in a very fragmented, virtual way.

 

Interesting. To me it isn't about affiliating with different brands, but the very definition of eclectic homeschooling. Eclectic means "a person who derives ideas, style, or taste from a broad and diverse range of sources." I'm an eclectic homeschooler. I derive ideas and styles from many educational models including classical education and unschooling.

[ElizaG]

Yes, I unschool my preschooler. I deliberately avoid formal schooling. Even when she asks to do something for school I don't consider curriculum or something like the letter of the week - we just do something informal like color or read together. I also utilize unschooling with my older kids as well. My sons often request books on a certain topic or specific books or DVDs. I give them to my kids and let them have at it. During the summer I am more active in providing resources for them to explore at will.

(...) To me it isn't about affiliating with different brands, but the very definition of eclectic homeschooling. Eclectic means "a person who derives ideas, style, or taste from a broad and diverse range of sources." I'm an eclectic homeschooler. I derive ideas and styles from many educational models including classical education and unschooling.

We consider ourselves to be eclectic, too. :) I guess I'm just not understanding how the things you've described (sticking to informal activities with a 3- or 4-year-old; giving an older child books about things he's interested in) are ideas derived from the unschooling model. They just seem like the default settings for homeschooling and parenting to me.

 

Or has our society really got to the point where it's seen as somehow radically "alternative" -- even among homeschooling families -- not to sit a 3-year-old down with a formal curriculum?

[laundrycrisis]

I was the one who said that:) Maybe some view unschooling as passive, but I don't. I don't see how you can unschool during sleep, but my kids do listen to something educational as they go to sleep. You could unschool when they go to the bathroom though. Just leave some interesting reading material by the toilet or maybe put some educational posters on the wall ;)

 

Yes, I unschool my preschooler. I deliberately avoid formal schooling. Even when she asks to do something for school I don't consider curriculum or something like the letter of the week - we just do something informal like color or read together. I also utilize unschooling with my older kids as well. My sons often request books on a certain topic or specific books or DVDs. I give them to my kids and let them have at it. During the summer I am more active in providing resources for them to explore at will.

 

What you are doing is called "strewing". It is indeed one of the things that unschoolers do. Many people who are not in any way unschoolers (those who avoid parent-directed learning activities) also strew. I strew. I don't consider that I am borrowing this idea from unschooling though, because it is not unique to unschooling and they did not come up with it. I am certainly not an unschooler because I am not "letting go of the reins" and "trusting my kids" to take the initiative to learn what they need to learn. That is really what is at the heart of the unschooling culture, and the drum they beat over and over..."trust your child and let go".

 

Or has our society really got to the point where it's seen as somehow radically "alternative" -- even among homeschooling families -- not to sit a 3-year-old down with a formal curriculum?

 

I had the same thought. IMO if someone has a kid who really wants to start learning the 3Rs at age 3 and the parent also wants to pursue it, great. Otherwise, it's fine to begin at the age of kindergarten. When I went to preschool we played pretend games, dressed up, learned songs, and glued things to each other. I know many preschool programs are now pushing academics. IMO it is sad because many of the kids really aren't ready at that age. Fine for those who are, sad for those who aren't. They will already be feeling stupid and behind at age 3. :( It is not radical to choose not to buy into this. I suppose someone could say that I was an "unschooler" for preschool, LOL ! But I really didn't pass the test as an unschooler once my kids reached what I felt was a more appropriate age for formal learning.

Edited October 24, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[zenjenn]

The problem I have with unschooling is that it doesn't particularly mean anything. I've seen it mean everything from what I consider educational neglect where nothing is expected of children, to a home rich in educational games, manipulatives, books, activities, experiments, artwork, etc, that the kids are required to use, but just not on any particular schedule. And everything in between.

 

I have one friend who unschools that I consider amazing, inspiring, and awesome, and another I can't even entirely bite my tongue around when I see the flaming ignorance of her children who can barely read, write, or do basic math calculations. I gently recommend math or writing programs and she'll say things like "Oh, we do real applied math, like with cooking.." I'm sorry, that's a nice enrichment activity, but that isn't sufficient for actually learning math. :(

[Colleen in NS]

I homeschooled my first set of kids way back when and I feel that we did more of an unschooling method with them than I do now. Why do I use a more structured approach now?

 

I feel that unschooling my first set of kids did a disservice to them. They basically got the idea that they didn;t need to do anything unless they wanted to do....boy it has turned them into some lazy people. And everything must be fun or they won;t partake in it. BIG mistake and regrets.

Kids need structure and they need to do things they don;t want to do sometimes.

 

What about others on this list?

 

Are you asking for stories of people who unschooled in the school-age years and later regretted it? If so, I hope to hear more stories, as I thought it was a great question. The following posters shared their stories, and I thought their stories were interesting:

 

I started with a very laid back approach with our 10 yr ds. We have a very busy machine shop and I work many hours in the business and for the first through third grades I wasn't able to provide much consistency with our son. I knew he was learning all kinds of things at our sides seeing us work. He was "unschooled" out of necessity at the time. But this year for fifth grade we are into more heavy academics and he is balking at the work. So in that way I wish I had been able to provide more stucture. I agree with you that structure gives them a framework to predict and feel like they have some control.

 

I started my oldest when he was in 2nd grade. My biggest regret is not doing my own thing. I let my friends tell me about CM and how it was better to be light. I still love CM, but dont think it has to be so light.

In 2nd grade I was having my son read 60 pages a day for Literature, but now in 6th grade I am lucky to get him to do 30. I back off mid-year and moved him down to 10 pages a day. I moved him up to 20 last year. I also made the mistake of waiting with my 7yo to start phonics. I wish I had pushed them more. I still cringe when I see people say, "Dont push them." Why not?

 

My daughter was unschooled until around 8 or 9. We then went ecclectic I guess with a few bits of curriculum and are now very structured Classical homeschoolers.

 

She's got a great work ethic and does what I ask her to within her "school" time. She needs some extra reminding outside that but I think that's just an age thing at this point. My son is 9 and his workload has picked up considerably this year where before it was VERY light if we weren't quite unschooling and he does fine too.

 

For me at least, I don't think it's a homeschooling style thing. I think it's more been a parenting thing.

 

:lurk5:

[happycc]

would be awesome..When I mean unschooling I mean unschooling above the preschool years.

I did surround the kids with a lot of good educational materials but I still think they needed that structure. Personally I think I would like to have more structure even now. But I am a far cry from when I first started.

[Rosie_0801]

Perhaps you need to ask on the logic or high school boards. Those with older kids probably won't see this here.

 

Rosie

[Jenny in GA]

 

I feel that unschooling my first set of kids did a disservice to them. They basically got the idea that they didn;t need to do anything unless they wanted to do....boy it has turned them into some lazy people. And everything must be fun or they won;t partake in it. BIG mistake and regrets.

Kids need structure and they need to do things they don;t want to do sometimes.

 

What about others on this list?

 

It depends on what "unschooling" entails.

 

We used to unschool when the kids were really little, and I've spent a lot of time talking with unschoolers, both IRL, on forums, and reading books by them.

 

The vast, vast majority of unschoolers say that a big part of unschooling is having unlimited screen time (many of them cite their kids watching TV and/or online gaming for up to six hours a day); NO required chores or housework of any kind, including cleaning up after theselves. (You can and should ask them to do something, but it's perfectly fine if they say no.)

 

People on the unschooling lists often talked about how important it was to bring food to their kids while they played video games for hours, as they were probably getting hungry and cranky.

 

So ... it's that's what someone means by "unschooling," then yes, I personally think it breeds kids with little discipline or work ethic, although they will swear it does not.

 

I can't really tell you from experience, since we only unschooled until my oldest was seven.

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

would be awesome..When I mean unschooling I mean unschooling above the preschool years.

I did surround the kids with a lot of good educational materials but I still think they needed that structure. Personally I think I would like to have more structure even now. But I am a far cry from when I first started.

 

 

We unschooled til my oldest was seven. We stopped at my husband's insistence. My biggest problem with unschooling -- at least the way we did it -- was that, well ... not much ever got done. Since we never had a plan, people just went in all directions, totally unfocused, including me. I felt like I never knew what to expect, or I'd get on the computer while I "waited" for them to pursue their interest, never knowing how long it would last.

 

And I was a lot more unstructured than most unschoolers, it seems. Many of them that I know have no problem with their kids going to bed at 3:00 or 4:00 am, even at elementary school age. One of my real-life friends tells her kids, "You can sleep whenever and wherever you want to." I listened to a lecture from an unschooling conference where the speaker said her child would ask her (the mom) to make mac and cheese for her at midnight.

 

We were never like that, even when I was an unschooling fan.

 

Now my oldest is ten, and she has a pretty good work ethic, although I do believe she's "behind" academically. Is that due to unschooling? I have no idea.

 

My second child, who was only five when we stopped unschooling, does well academically but is less disciplined and hard working overall.

 

I agree that I would like to hear more from people who unschool and it doesn't go well. All I ever read for years and years was that unschooling was so wonderful, no one ever regretted it, and that unschooled kids had great work ethics, great manners, have no trouble getting into college, are very advanced readers even though they were never taught to read and never required to read, and were literally offered jobs that they weren't even looking for.

 

That can't be true about everybody, and yet that's all I've ever heard.

 

Jenny

[laundrycrisis]

.... All I ever read for years and years was that unschooling was so wonderful, no one ever regretted it, and that unschooled kids had great work ethics, great manners, have no trouble getting into college, are very advanced readers even though they were never taught to read and never required to read, and were literally offered jobs that they weren't even looking for.

 

That can't be true about everybody, and yet that's all I've ever heard.

 

Jenny

 

This was my experience of researching unschooling as well, which included loads of reading, and spending time "observing" unschoolers, both online and IRL. It was next to impossible to find anyone admitting that any part of it didn't work for them. Anyone who was brave enough to come into a forum looking for help with a problem related to unschooling was quickly educated on how the only problem was their perspective, that it was their own problem to solve by changing their perspective, and that it would be wrong for them to impose this wrong perspective on their kids. :001_huh: This was not at all unusual. I saw it over and over.

 

I suspect most people who quit unschooling just quietly tiptoe off. This is why I am also very interested in hearing from those who will say they tried it and sharing which parts were great and which parts didn't work at all. It's hard to find this information. There are parts of unschooling that still fascinate me although I have concluded I am not the "let go and trust your child" type of homeschooler :lol:.

[Free]

It depends on what "unschooling" entails.

 

The vast, vast majority of unschoolers say that a big part of unschooling is having unlimited screen time (many of them cite their kids watching TV and/or online gaming for up to six hours a day); NO required chores or housework of any kind, including cleaning up after theselves. (You can and should ask them to do something, but it's perfectly fine if they say no.)

 

People on the unschooling lists often talked about how important it was to bring food to their kids while they played video games for hours, as they were probably getting hungry and cranky.

 

This is the more extreme brand of unschooling. IMO, anything extreme cannot be good for the child - be it radical unschooling on the one hand or extremely structured, extremely formal schooling on the other. Balance is the key in schooling like in all other things.

 

Plenty of people on this forum do unschool their kids in atleast some of the subjects. They forego not only formal curriculum, but also formal kinds of outputs such as written reports, etc., the aim being to inculcate a love of learning and a love for the subject in the child.

 

For example, in Science and History I started out with a formal curriculum, sequence and plan. But when I realized my ds was just going through the motions instead of being excited about learning, I abandoned the specific scope and sequence I had planned out for him and instead we are following an interest led approach. The topics we choose are often "out of sequence", rather they grow organically from his interests.

[WishboneDawn]

It depends on what "unschooling" entails.

 

We used to unschool when the kids were really little, and I've spent a lot of time talking with unschoolers, both IRL, on forums, and reading books by them.

 

The vast, vast majority of unschoolers say that a big part of unschooling is having unlimited screen time (many of them cite their kids watching TV and/or online gaming for up to six hours a day); NO required chores or housework of any kind, including cleaning up after theselves. (You can and should ask them to do something, but it's perfectly fine if they say no.)

 

People on the unschooling lists often talked about how important it was to bring food to their kids while they played video games for hours, as they were probably getting hungry and cranky.

 

So ... it's that's what someone means by "unschooling," then yes, I personally think it breeds kids with little discipline or work ethic, although they will swear it does not.

 

I can't really tell you from experience, since we only unschooled until my oldest was seven.

 

Jenny

 

That's what I did for several years. Full on Sandra Dodd-inspired radical unschooling. Even THEN I think the key for us was for me to stay engaged and do things with the kids. There's a difference between no chores and unlimited screen times, no chores and a parenting vacuum, unlimited screen time, no chores and engaged parenting. I should say though that part of why we eventually started to change styles was because there WAS a point where I was becoming disengaged as a parent. We had one car that the husband needed for work, a small, cluttered house, limited funds...I started getting depressed and I found that when that started radical unschooling became a hindrance rather then then anything useful. Which is again why I think it's more a matter of parenting then style.

 

We're now pretty much the opposite of what we were. The kids have adapted well.

[WishboneDawn]

And I was a lot more unstructured than most unschoolers, it seems. Many of them that I know have no problem with their kids going to bed at 3:00 or 4:00 am, even at elementary school age. One of my real-life friends tells her kids, "You can sleep whenever and wherever you want to." I listened to a lecture from an unschooling conference where the speaker said her child would ask her (the mom) to make mac and cheese for her at midnight.

 

I think it was finally starting bedtimes that probably began to turn us away from homeschooling. Once the bedtimes started happening then my husband and I had time to ourselves and the kids were getting up in more stable and predictable moods...It was wonderful.

 

The mac and cheese...Ugh. I think that's one of the flaws of radical unschooling in my mind. It's supposed to be about allowing kids the space to express themselves and learn about themselves and the world but it's often done at the expense of the parent, of the very person who's supposed to model the values and virtues to be passed on to the kid. Kids don't learn simply by doing. They learn by observing and if my kids are always observing me catering to them and denying myself to serve them, well, I don't think that's healthy.