why we need to learn to diagram a sentence?

[kandty]

I was never taught to diagram a sentence in school. I am having a hard time teaching this to my son. If someone would just tell me the why, then I could teach it. :tongue_smilie:

[chepyl]

If you can diagram a sentence, you can understand it. It is really helpful when you are reading more difficult material. If you have a lot of experience with diagraming, you can start to lockout the parts of a sentence without trying. It makes it easier to match phrases with the word they modify or complement. It tales a lot of practice.

 

 

It also males editing for flow and grammar a lot easier.

[specialmama]

:iagree: I also think sentence diagraming provides another layer of visual input in addition to the words themselves. The components of a well written sentence begin to jump out at you. Perhaps another benefit of studying diagraming is that eventually the knowledge culminate in clear, concise writing.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

My husband and I were just having this conversation not more than 10 minutes ago. lol

 

I am seriously considering going back to primary language lessons after using R&S 3 english for three weeks. I actually think the sentence diagramming is confusing my son about sentences more than helping him. He understood sentences better before beginning this and now seems to be getting things all mixed up. Maybe that is because it is new for us but I'm not sure I see the purpose of diagramming either. My husband who is a very good reader and got excellent marks in college for writing assignments doesn't see the need for it.

[Perogi]

I am about to embark on this for the first time (teaching and learning!) in GWG 3. I'm not sure I completely understand the significance but we're going to give it a whirl!

[Momling]

I think knowing how to talk about grammar is important... but diagramming isn't. I taught my older daughter how to make syntax trees rather than diagramming, because it makes more sense to me... it's easy to see how the phrases and words are related to each other... and it can be applied to other languages. But do kids really need to know this? Probably not.

[atara]

It's great for visual learners - patterns can be seen clearly.

I LOVE LOVED diagramming sentences in school!

[Deniseibase]

Long answer - I do litigation support for corporate law, and have done this for the last 20 years. One of my main tasks is to write a short summary of what every document we get during discovery is about. We see cases from ALL kinds of businesses, everything from insurance companies to environmental firms to software firms to chemical companies, not to mention the jargon we get from the lawyers themselves!! There is no possible way I could be expert enough in each of those fields to be able to intelligently summarize documents based on simply reading them and trying to understand their meaning.

 

So, we diagram sentences. We pick out key sentences from the document (which means we also need to have a good understanding of paragraph construction, BTW), and diagram them and from there are able to put together a short summary based on the structure of the sentences, without really needing to understand the technical details. I have mostly been one of the trainers, and without exception, the ladies I work with who are my age or older, or the rare few younger women who studied diagramming, understand very quickly how to do this. The ladies who have not studied diagramming have to be taught to diagram before they can do this part of the job effectively.

 

Short answer - it helps you grasp the structure of language in a way that nothing else seems to be able to accomplish.

[Cassy]

We're in the UK. I'd never heard of diagramming sentences until I started using this board. No-one I know has ever heard of diagramming sentences. I think, on the whole, we do OK with the English language. I have no intention of even looking into what it's all about :tongue_smilie:.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

[regentrude]

I do not find it necessary to learn how to diagram; I learned to use correct grammar and to read complex texts just fine without diagramming (it is not taught in my home country.)

Clearly, diagramming can be a useful tool for visualization, and I could imagine it to be valuable for students without an intuitive grasp of language structure. It is, however, only one possible way of learning to analyze complex sentences. I don't teach it.

Edited October 4, 2011 by regentrude

[twoforjoy]

Because it's fun!

 

Seriously, I find sentence diagramming really fun. That's why I plan on teaching it.

 

But, I don't think it's necessary. And if my kids absolutely hate doing it, it's not something I'd require, assuming they were able to grasp grammatical concepts/relationships in other ways.

[Candid]

SWB also shows how diagramming can help a student figure out what is wrong with a poorly written sentence (might be grammatically correct, but doesn't have any oomph). Check out the introduction to her elementary writing book: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/media/downloads/pdfsamples/wwesample.pdf

[ekarl2]

Diagraming is a teaching tool. If you want to be able to understand the phrases and clauses (gerunds, participles, infinitives, noun clauses, etc) you're going to have to use diagraming. There are too many "moving parts" to complex sentences to keep track of what's doing what to what without a diagram.

 

It's a means to an end.

[Josie]

Diagraming is a teaching tool. If you want to be able to understand the phrases and clauses (gerunds, participles, infinitives, noun clauses, etc) you're going to have to use diagraming. There are too many "moving parts" to complex sentences to keep track of what's doing what to what without a diagram.

 

It's a means to an end.

 

:iagree:

 

A diagram helps you see and really think about each word in a sentence. I used to be in the camp that thought it wasn't important, but I have changed. My perogative, right?!?!?! LOL

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I do not find it necessary to learn how to diagram; I learned to use correct grammar and to read complex texts just fine without diagramming (it is not taught in my home country.)

Clearly, diagramming can be a useful tool for visualization, and I could imagine it to be valuable for students without an intuitive grasp of language structure. It is, however, only one possible way of learning to analyze complex sentences. I don't teach it.

 

One thing that diagraming does help with is the study of foreign languages by English speakers. Because we don't change adjective or article word endings based on gender, number or case; it can be difficult to understand how this works in another language. My experience as a language learner (German, French and Russian) was that many students had never really mastered concepts such as direct object or indirect object in English. Typically, those who had mastered this had done so through diagramming.

 

That doesn't mean diagramming is the only route to mastery. But just that it has usefulness outside of the world of English grammar and writing.

 

Having said that, my eighth grade English teacher spent about 3-6 weeks on diagramming, really covered it in detail and then moved on. I think that diagramming can be useful in younger grades (for example my youngest is using diagramming to cement parts of speech details). But I also think you CAN get all you need in a concentrated study.

[Supertechmom]

Because when you have a very science/math minded genus who thinks his writing is perfect, you have the tools to prove that the 15 phrase sentence with a bazillions word running on for half a page, despit its wit and insight, DOES NOT contain a single complete thought. We proof all day long in science and math. Diagraming gives us a formal proof to writing. It has made critiquing writing much easier as now I just say "prove it, bring back the diagram". He often brings back a different sentence as attempting to diagram it proved to be beyond possible. First sign your sentence may not follow decent english, son. For one that writing is not a natural extension of the brain, diagramming has proven to be invaluable in seeing why that sentence is really not great. Now for the second boy, who has a natural bent to writing, diagramming isn't as useful. But we pull it out from time to time. Though it is proving its worth in Greek and Latin.

[JadeOrchidSong]

:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub::001_wub::001_wub: sentence diagramming. It is as automatic to me as driving. I can help a person (including myself) to edit his/her paper by pointing out what is missing and what is redundant and why a sentence is unbalanced.

[Colleen in NS]

Long answer - I do litigation support for corporate law, and have done this for the last 20 years. One of my main tasks is to write a short summary of what every document we get during discovery is about. We see cases from ALL kinds of businesses, everything from insurance companies to environmental firms to software firms to chemical companies, not to mention the jargon we get from the lawyers themselves!! There is no possible way I could be expert enough in each of those fields to be able to intelligently summarize documents based on simply reading them and trying to understand their meaning.

 

So, we diagram sentences. We pick out key sentences from the document (which means we also need to have a good understanding of paragraph construction, BTW), and diagram them and from there are able to put together a short summary based on the structure of the sentences, without really needing to understand the technical details.

 

This is awesome!!! I love this answer!! (I love diagraming, too)

 

I diagram sentences in my mind whenever someone is telling me something that I don't quite understand. Then I can at least figure out the questions I need to ask in order to understand what the person is telling me.

 

It's a great analytical tool.

[tristangrace]

Three words: clarity of thought.

 

It goes much, much deeper than English grammar and gets to the heart of really knowing what you mean, believe, and think. Poorly constructed sentences are evidence of muddy thinking. Analyzing what you write WILL help you clarify--precisely, exactly, definitely--what you mean, and that is really powerful stuff! Some people (especially students in the logic stage) need lots of practice before they develop the habit of saying what they mean.

 

I don't hate diagramming sentences, but I don't love it, either. But it is a truly awesome tool for sharpening and strengthening your power as a human being.

[Bluegoat]

If a person is going to do any translation work, she need to be able to diagram. I suspect in the past people often learned to do it through learning a second language.

[Perogi]

This thread has been so encouraging and has really given purpose to what we are approaching in GWG 3.

[WeeBeaks]

People already touched on it - I read recently a big thing is that English depends on word order. Diagramming teaches an English speaker to pick apart a sentence and arrange it in an order not dependent on word order for meaning. This is important for a language like Latin (or others) that are not dependent on word order, something very strange to English-only speakers.

[tvaleri]

Another thought....we use Shurley English which teaches classifying sentences instead of diagramming. It works for us =)

 

FWIW, I'm teaching some youngers at co-op using this method. The classification Q & A flow gives them tools to locate parts of speech, understand "jobs" of words, and improve sentences.

 

 

Smiles,

Teresa

[silliness7]

I was never taught to diagram a sentence in school. I am having a hard time teaching this to my son. If someone would just tell me the why, then I could teach it. :tongue_smilie:

 

I heard SWB talk about why diagramming in a writing mp3. She said when children (I think logic stage and older) write awkward sentences you can have them diagram the sentence to see for themselves why it isn't working and how to fix it.

[TeaCookiesBears]

Long answer - I do litigation support for corporate law, and have done this for the last 20 years. One of my main tasks is to write a short summary of what every document we get during discovery is about. We see cases from ALL kinds of businesses, everything from insurance companies to environmental firms to software firms to chemical companies, not to mention the jargon we get from the lawyers themselves!! There is no possible way I could be expert enough in each of those fields to be able to intelligently summarize documents based on simply reading them and trying to understand their meaning.

 

So, we diagram sentences. We pick out key sentences from the document (which means we also need to have a good understanding of paragraph construction, BTW), and diagram them and from there are able to put together a short summary based on the structure of the sentences, without really needing to understand the technical details. I have mostly been one of the trainers, and without exception, the ladies I work with who are my age or older, or the rare few younger women who studied diagramming, understand very quickly how to do this. The ladies who have not studied diagramming have to be taught to diagram before they can do this part of the job effectively.

 

Short answer - it helps you grasp the structure of language in a way that nothing else seems to be able to accomplish.

 

 

Wow!! I never knew there was a real world need for learning diagramming. I am learning and teaching it to dd12 so that we can have a better understanding of grammar.

[MeganW]

When I was coming through school, in middle school the honors kids got diagramming in English class, but the other students did not get this instruction. A few years later in Spanish class, those of us who had had diagramming were light years ahead of those who had not.

[justamouse]

SWB also shows how diagramming can help a student figure out what is wrong with a poorly written sentence (might be grammatically correct, but doesn't have any oomph). Check out the introduction to her elementary writing book: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/media/downloads/pdfsamples/wwesample.pdf

 

Wow, I forgot how great that intro was. You need to whip that out more often.

[nicholsonhomeschool]

I was just watching my son diagram a sentence today and thought, "this makes it SO much easier for him to understand the difference between an adjective and adverb." Granted, we're really early in the game of grammar, but I can see how he will get a visual understanding of parts of speech. FWIW...

[Perogi]

Wow, I forgot how great that intro was. You need to whip that out more often.

 

:iagree:

[ClassicalTwins]

Because I want my sons to be able to write well or edit others' work someday when they are in college. As a recent grad student, I was appalled at the writing skills of my fellow students. Since you can not alway rely on the spell and grammar check of Word.

[lejardin]

Long answer - I do litigation support for corporate law, and have done this for the last 20 years. One of my main tasks is to write a short summary of what every document we get during discovery is about. <snip> So, we diagram sentences. <snip>

Short answer - it helps you grasp the structure of language in a way that nothing else seems to be able to accomplish.

 

Wow!! I never knew there was a real world need for learning diagramming. I am learning and teaching it to dd12 so that we can have a better understanding of grammar.

 

Ditto. Denise, that was an interesting real life application

I didn't learn diagramming in school but I'm finding it's not so bad. :tongue_smilie:

DD being a visual learner and artistic loves to do diagramming.

OP, I've asked why diagramming is necessary too and realize it's simply a tool and one that works for us.

[kalanamak]

I am about to embark on this for the first time (teaching and learning!) in GWG 3. I'm not sure I completely understand the significance but we're going to give it a whirl!

 

For us it is a nifty visual puzzle that tells me if kiddo really "got" something or not. It fits our personality. It has made my ability to teach grammar stronger.

 

That said, I so wanted to learn to diagram when I was 10 and 11. They had quit by the time I came along, but my brothers remembered it, and I used to struggle through the books on my own. Never got anywhere. So perhaps part of it is nostalgia.

 

Another thing that sold me was Rex Barks. Reading it, I CANNOT believe such a wonderfully sharp and clear teacher would be bothering with it if it didn't have value. How's that for magical thinking!! You can read my short review on Amazon. It is entitled Mrs. Davenport, Firm but Loved. :)

[kandty]

Thanks everyone for all ther responses. It has been very insightful!

[Perogi]

For us it is a nifty visual puzzle that tells me if kiddo really "got" something or not. It fits our personality. It has made my ability to teach grammar stronger.

 

That said, I so wanted to learn to diagram when I was 10 and 11. They had quit by the time I came along, but my brothers remembered it, and I used to struggle through the books on my own. Never got anywhere. So perhaps part of it is nostalgia.

 

Another thing that sold me was Rex Barks. Reading it, I CANNOT believe such a wonderfully sharp and clear teacher would be bothering with it if it didn't have value. How's that for magical thinking!! You can read my short review on Amazon. It is entitled Mrs. Davenport, Firm but Loved. :)

 

I must admit, after reading through this thread I'm really excited to teach (and learn!) diagramming. I like these types of skills that help me to see for sure that dd is "getting it" and, (perhaps this is a little snobby!) I like that I'll be giving her a skill that few of her peers will have. ;)

[Five More Minutes]

Another thing that sold me was Rex Barks. Reading it, I CANNOT believe such a wonderfully sharp and clear teacher would be bothering with it if it didn't have value. How's that for magical thinking!! You can read my short review on Amazon. It is entitled Mrs. Davenport, Firm but Loved. :)

 

I'm working through Rex Barks right now and loving it. I'm amazed at how much diagramming and/or Mrs. Davenport are helping me make sense of grammar. In the process I'm also realizing just how misplaced my former confidence in my grammar skills really was ... :tongue_smilie:

[warneral]

I had a sit-down with my dh last night to tell him of my concerns and seek advice. He got all excited seeing sentence diagramming in our curriculum. I think it probably works well for the analytical mind.

[m0mmaBuck]

Diagramming has helped my son understand proper sentence structure. He now recognizes whether he is dealing with a sentence, sentence fragment, run-on sentence, and so on.

[lakotajm]

People already touched on it - I read recently a big thing is that English depends on word order. Diagramming teaches an English speaker to pick apart a sentence and arrange it in an order not dependent on word order for meaning. This is important for a language like Latin (or others) that are not dependent on word order, something very strange to English-only speakers.

 

OK, I think this is why it gave me so much trouble in high school (which is the only time it was ever covered for me.) Because the sentence was put out of order, I freaked and had no idea what she was talking about! Diagramming literally made me cry and I flunked that section of English that year (and I was an A English student and took Honors English in high school.) I never had Latin, though I did take French and Spanish. I did well in those classes despite my inability to diagram.

 

We are using MCT and I prefer his approach. There is less of the deconstruction that freaked me out. I think diagramming may not be something one would need to cover in the logic stage, may be better for the grammar stage.

 

I do think one can benefit from it, as some examples from this thread showed. But if it totally eludes someone (like myself,) I would not worry about it. As pointed out, you can always learn it later if you need it for your career. So attempt it, but do not sweat it if it becomes torture to the student. If they are constantly exposed to good writing they should at least recognize it (or its opposite) when they see it, even in their own writing. That's enough for most careers.

 

Lakota

[Perogi]

OK, I think this is why it gave me so much trouble in high school (which is the only time it was ever covered for me.) Because the sentence was put out of order, I freaked and had no idea what she was talking about! Diagramming literally made me cry and I flunked that section of English that year (and I was an A English student and took Honors English in high school.) I never had Latin, though I did take French and Spanish. I did well in those classes despite my inability to diagram.

 

We are using MCT and I prefer his approach. There is less of the deconstruction that freaked me out. I think diagramming may not be something one would need to cover in the logic stage, may be better for the grammar stage.

 

I do think one can benefit from it, as some examples from this thread showed. But if it totally eludes someone (like myself,) I would not worry about it. As pointed out, you can always learn it later if you need it for your career. So attempt it, but do not sweat it if it becomes torture to the student. If they are constantly exposed to good writing they should at least recognize it (or its opposite) when they see it, even in their own writing. That's enough for most careers.

 

Lakota

 

I would agree - it won't be a hill to die on, for me. I suspect dd will quite enjoy it. Me, on the other hand...I may be calling on dh for help!