What if I don't want to be frugal/green/etc?

[JennifersLost]

I know someone will have something very wise to say. Here's my problem. After growing up fairly upper-middle class I lived in poverty conditions for about 7 years with my ex in my 20s. All my feelings about "tightening the belt", "living frugally", etc, are mixed up in my mind with horrible memories, fear, sorrow, loneliness, etc.

 

Fast forward to now. Dh and I have worked hard to set ourselves up to be pretty comfortable. We live very frugally, I think. We hardly ever eat out, we always think about purchases, we budget for every dime of spending, etc. We've also set things up so both of us can pursue our "dream careers" while living mostly off of our passive income.

 

Here's the problem. I feel like we're being frugal. Very frugal. We have one car. We have a gas budget. Everyone else seems to have so much more than us in terms of clothes, furniture, etc., although we are finally catching up. I'm no longer mortified about our living room couch, although our bedding is so old it's starting to shred.

 

As we are getting into this whole time of expensive gas, expensive food, etc., dh is embracing it with all his heart. He'd love to not have a car at all. He'd love to grow most of our food. He'd like to use alternative sources of energy, etc, etc, etc. I think he'd love to see everyone "pay" for their excesses, you know - it's kind of a moral thing with him.

 

I just feel like a noose is tightening around my neck. Today he mentioned something about giving each person in our family a gas allowance and then having them pay for "extra trips" in the car with it. He thought it would be a great way to teach the kids about the cost of using the car. My oldest ds loved the idea (he's a "greenie", too). I said I'd talk about it later and now I'm in tears.

 

I don't want to be green. Travelling is my salvation and the farthest trip I have taken in 10 months was 10 miles in one direction! How much less can we possibly drive???? I don't want the kids to decide not to take piano lessons so that they keep more money in their pockets for candy. I don't want to feel guilty for getting them piano lessons to begin with! I hate pinching pennies and watching dimes. In fact, I want a second car! I'm so sick of having to coordinate every last thing on our schedules and never being able to tell other people with certainty whether or not I'll be able to be somewhere.

 

I know the minute I say all this to him he'll completely back off like he has on so many other things, but the real issue goes deeper: is this really what life is going to become? Because I don't find it fun. Not one little bit.

 

Back when I was college age the idea of living on a farm, raising food, being a total back-to-the-earth hippie really did appeal to me. But somehow I envisioned it as traipsing around barefoot picking lettuce and feeding chickens all the while looking incredibly cute.

 

I never envisioned it as me walking around the butt-ugly, freezing warehouse store trying to remember if milk cost 25 cents less last week and are we going to have to cut back again.

 

Is there some way to turn this around and be excited about being frugal? Should I become to frugality what Bree is to homemaking on Desperate Housewives? Should I blog/brag about it? Should I become more of a nut about it than dh is until he cries uncle and takes me out shopping 2.5 hours away for more pairs of shoes?

 

As always, I'll appreciate book recommendations - nonfiction, of course - but maybe fiction would help.

 

I think I wouldn't have any problem being frugal if I lived on the beach somewhere and the sun always shone.....

[swellmomma]

I hear you. I am still in that place you were in your 20s living in poverty. I couldn't cut back anymore even if I wanted to be green. And you know once I had more money I would not want to go back to living like this, even for the sake of frugality or being green. On one hand I am wanting to live green, as far as recycling goes, maybe growing my own veggies but cutting back on gas, or other purchases no way. IF I could afford better things I would spend the money hands down no worries about being frugal. I want to live out in the woods or country, but I want nice furniture, a large grocery budget and a nicer van, so not really frugal or green in that aspect.

 

No book recommendations from me, just hugs of understanding.

[Remudamom]

Well, I'm not frugal either, and I don't care. And I'm about as far away from green as you can get, unless I've just recently slipped in some horse$h!t.

 

Talk to your dh and tell him how you feel. Otherwise he might think you feel the same way, and keep it up.

 

There is a ditch on both sides, but I'm sure you'll know the middle of the road once you hit it.

[Carol in Cal.]

Frugal is when you choose to be careful with your spending so that it aligns perfectly with your budget and your values.

 

Cheap is when you avoid spending anything just to do it.

 

I would read the book "Your Money or Your Life" to help clarify your thinking about what spending would be in line with your values.

 

And I think that the essential argument against your husband's proposal is that it will teach your children to be cheap rather than frugal and to be governed by that all their lives. That's not the kind of education you want for them. Challenge them to invent a way to be more green but still take piano lessons. Challenge them to figure out what they value most deeply and align themselves with that. Don't impose a value system on them that says that forsaking driving is the highest good. Find your actual highest good, and teach them that. Then let everything else fall into place.

 

You do sound pretty green to me, and pretty frugal, too. Just don't cross the line into cheap. It makes for a very pinched, miserable existance.

[percytruffle]

 

There is a ditch on both sides, but I'm sure you'll know the middle of the road once you hit it.

 

 

Great statement.

 

 

The two of you have to be on the same page (or road :D) for frugality to work and not feel like a burden. You need to both brainstorm together to come up with the ideas you want to implement and to discuss those areas where you are uncomfortable becoming more frugal. You obviously have some emotional responses going on that need to be addressed as well and it is not unreasonable for you to ask for dh's understanding in these areas. Life is not black and white when it comes to the human aspect. If frugality and greenness is going to be a team effort than you have to be included in the team, not just in carrying it out, but in on the planning as well. If dh mandates the changes and you are only implimenting his ideas you will have a more difficult time with the adjustments. I know I would! ;)

 

Find something that inspires you, some small change you can really get behind. For me, a more simple lifestyle is what "floats my boat". Baking and cooking from scratch make me feel more connected to life. I am inspired by the Miss Read books and the simplicity of the lifestyle of those English country school teachers from the past. I actually enjoy hanging out laundry to dry, but not all. the. time. I do what I can when I can and unless I have to make drastic changes (like when dh was between jobs), my efforts are moderate. Moderate is better than none at all.

[j.griff]

I would try to find a balance. Do you have the funds to buy a hybrid vehicle? I keep reading about how financially secure you all are, and if being "green" is a BIG deal for DH, and being able to travel is a BIG deal for you, having a hybrid sounds like a wonderful compromise. :) Maybe I'm totally off though.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Well, it seems there are several issues here. First, it's perfectly understandable that you don't want to be frugal or green. We all have different passions in life. For example, I hate the outdoors while so many other people love it. I feel like I should like being out getting fresh air, but I don't (okay, except for the occasional perfect spring or fall day). Even in grade school, I preferred to stay in at recess and read and resented that they sent us out to play. So I think everyone has their lists of should's, and it is different for each person. You don't like what you don't like.

 

Now, I consider myself "green" in the sense that I think it's a great idea. I try to remember to turn the faucet off when I'm brushing my teeth. When light bulbs blow, we replace them with the more environmentally friendly ones. We reuse what we can (still trying to get on board with recycling). I'm not doing anything major to help the earth, but I'm trying to at least be responsible. It sounds like you're the same way.

 

Same with the frugality issue. I actually enjoy, when I have the time, to look for deals and use coupons. I'm still working on being more frugal because we can definitely stand to save money, and I like to look at it as a game. But I don't really beat myself up if, for example, I need to buy milk at full price because it's not on sale at the store I'm at, but I know it's on sale at another store. It's just not worth it to me to stop at 3 different stores to get the best deals all the time. Again, it sounds like you are being pretty darn frugal.

 

So the final issue I see is that this is apparently something your DH is passionate about, and he's failing to see that you don't share the same passion. It sounds like you haven't yet shared your feelings with him, and no matter how hard that might be, you just need to do it. Encourage him to challenge himself to be as green and as frugal as possible, and tell him you'll do what you can but that you don't anticipate being able to make any further changes in your lifestyle. Tell him how you feel about being able to go for a long drive. If that's your only vice, well it could be much worse!:lol:

[Jane in NC]

Hey Jennifer,

 

Part of the reason that I choose to live my life frugally is so that I can travel. I figure that much of life is about choices. There is a lot of material stuff that does not interest me, but going to museums, national parks, and historical sites does. I make choices that leave dollars for the symphony and the theater. Some people would rather eat out a lot or have 5 thousand cable channels or drive a fancier car. What is one man's frugal is another man's bliss.

 

Like Percytruffle, cooking floats my boat, too. I spend my money on local produce because I like knowing my farmers' first names. This is not important to most of the people that I know.

 

And while I preach green, I must hide my head in shame while computing my carbon footprint based on air miles.

 

It really does sound like a conversation on goals and priorities is in order. Your husband has been living with you a while, right? This probably won't be a surprise to him.

 

Bon voyage,

Jane

[Sue G in PA]

Not much advice, just a big time...:iagree: I'm with you. We do live frugally, always have. We've always had to live frugally...even before children when I worked full-time. Growing up, I lived in a comfortable middle class home. My parents saved, had retirement income, investments, etc. My father was a high school drop-out who had a passion for learning everything and anything he could (just wasn't interested when he was a teen!). He had a comfortable job, was able to retire from one when the plant shut down and was blessed enough to find another job...so he had 2 incomes basically. We vacationed each year to OC or Florida or somewhere. Sure, my friends who had 2 working parents had a lot more...but we never wanted for anything. Dh's father was a doctor...nuff said.

 

My dh and I certainly don't have half as much as my folks did (and my mother was always a SAHM)...no retirement to speak of, no savings, don't take vacations very often, etc. God provides and we survive...but I'm sick of just surviving, KWIM? I'm angry about gas prices b/c it's making us tighten our belts even more. We ration food now..."did you already have cereal today? Okay, then no more.". We water down our juices. We drink more water (good thing), but it is bottled b/c I hate our well water. I'm not complaining, but I do wonder when it's going to end. It's a bit frightening to think it might get worse before it gets better. I'm sorry I don't have advice for you...just sympathizing.

[Chris in VA]

Just hugs to you. I hate the financial place I'm in. Kudos to you for setting things up so cleverly. You are obviously wise financially. It's ok to treat yourself once in a while so you don't feel so deprived. Even God is extravagant in the Spring--we don't really need daffodils, do we? :001_smile:

[jmgconner]

:grouphug: I love what everyone has been saying here. For me, I'm choosing to live frugally and learning how to live green. I enjoy it when I feel like I'm the one CHOOSING to live like this rather than being FORCED to live frugally, KWIM?

 

Could you sit down with DH and discuss what you need in order to feel that you're choosing to live a frugal/green life? For me, I don't want to give up my long, soaking, bubble-baths. I also refuse to eat cream-of-wheat. Both of those come from my childhood and lack of money during that time. I'll give up quite a bit to make sure those two things are in place.

[Margaret in GA]

I resent being frugal when everyone around me has a perfectly decorated million dollar house or brand new $40K car with leather and TV. I embrace it when I hang out with my friends that hang their clothes out to dry and patch the knees of their jeans. Maybe it's all in your surroundings? Been watching too many home decorating channels? Or sticoms in which everyone is beautiful and dressed like a million bucks? Or subscribing to magazines like House Beautiful or Metropolitan Home? Maybe it's just me, but I find eliminating the Pottery Barn and JCrew catalogs makes me feel so much better. If you can surround yourself with that "less is more" lifestyle, you'll feel better I think.

 

good luck to you,

Margaret

[OnTheBrink]

Oh, do I ever hear you. When my son was little, we were on aid and I had no choice but to pinch every penny. Later in life, when things were better, EX had asked me to shop at Aldi for food, to keep the food budget down. I hated it. I felt as if I were on aid again. I'm pretty much over that by now, but there are times when I'll get that feeling again.

[percytruffle]

I think she is already being very frugal and don't think temptation has been voiced as an issue per se, but I do agree with you that it is best to avoid things that tempt you to compare your lifestyle to that of others. All catalogs get circular filed the minute they come into the house, or they get a quick once-over and then into the trash. Well, not The Teaching Company catalogs of course...;).

 

Comparison is the root of so much frustration.

[cin]

I would try to find a balance. Do you have the funds to buy a hybrid vehicle? I keep reading about how financially secure you all are, and if being "green" is a BIG deal for DH, and being able to travel is a BIG deal for you, having a hybrid sounds like a wonderful compromise. :) Maybe I'm totally off though.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

 

 

This has worked out wonderfully for us! We both drive hybrids. If we didn't, the kids would be VERY bored (and mama would be crazy!!) I don't drive a whole lot, but without the hybrid, I wouldn't be driving at all. Our kids wouldn't be in co-op, and violin lessons wouldn't be. So, I'm saving and being green withOUT feeling like I'm suffering, so to speak. I actually feel sort of cool doing it.

 

That said, I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. I went through high school (a very well-to-do HS) well below poverty level. My dad was on a medical disability. We qualified for donations from the food kitchen. So I feel the same way when DH says cut back, tighten our belt, or something similar.

 

:grouphug:

[JessMcG]

 

Is there some way to turn this around and be excited about being frugal? Should I become to frugality what Bree is to homemaking on Desperate Housewives? Should I blog/brag about it? Should I become more of a nut about it than dh is until he cries uncle and takes me out shopping 2.5 hours away for more pairs of shoes?

 

 

Lol! All good solutions.

 

I think you need to have a heart to heart with your husband. Like someone else said, there is a difference between being frugal and being cheap. On the other hand, perhaps it is possible to feel better by concentrating on the good parts of your current lifestyle...maybe a brag blog wouldn't be such a bad idea. But I'm not all discrediting the way you're feeling. I was in a similar situation for a couple of years and it was very hard for me emotionally at times.

[JennifersLost]

Lots of great advice and you know what - as usual, just being able to whine "out loud" helped get me back in a better place.

 

Part of this is about me not believing that we're getting to the good part. In order to get our financial house in order we made some pretty big sacrifices that kind of scared the pants off me. I find it hard to let go of the past and relax at all. When we sell this house we will be pretty secure, but that's a pretty big "when" right now. It hasn't sold yet. Maybe it won't.

 

When it does we'll be slightly farther out of town. Dh won't drive as much because home will be work for him (we'll be living on our rental property). I will be driving more and it's important for me to be able to drive into town frequently because otherwise I will feel completely cut off.

 

I will be traveling more next year than I have in the past, but I don't "believe" it yet. It would be cool to get a hybrid car, but I'm not sure we're quite there yet. maybe it's something we really should be focusing on.

 

I think I react to the cooking thing because I am just coming out of a couple of years of dealing with a child's allergy special diet that was soooo restrictive. I need a chance to breathe and relax.....

 

Can anyone think of any fun, "back to the land" type novels they're read recently? Hippy stuff? Inspiring stuff? Some of the things dh wants to do are so cool, I just haven't found my equilibrium and my inspiration yet.

[LisaKinVA]

I do know how you feel.

 

I've spent the last 6.5 years living in my parent's basement -- 900 square feet. It's partially finished and dimly lit... and I've called it "home" far longer than dh and I ever thought we would. At one point, my dh parents didn't feel like we were "doing enough" to leave the situation (actually for 2-3 years). Kept saying that if we would just cut back X or Y we could "afford" our own place. (Mind you, $1000 a month would have gotten us a 2 BR apartment, and still about 900 square feet).

 

I agree with those above who have said there is a difference between being "frugal" and being "cheap." I can be frugal -- but I feel like we've sacrificed so much already.

 

Talk to your husband... tell him your concerns. Hugs!

[Melora in NC]

Can anyone think of any fun, "back to the land" type novels they're read recently? Hippy stuff? Inspiring stuff? Some of the things dh wants to do are so cool, I just haven't found my equilibrium and my inspiration yet.

 

I enjoyed See You in One Hundred Years. It is about a writer and his wife and little boy who bought a farm in Virginia (?) and took out all the modern conveniences and lived as though they had gone back in time 100 years. He did some pretty goofy stuff, but they survived the year. It certainly made me appreciate my kitchen appliances, indoor plumbing, etc.!

[Jane in NC]

 

Can anyone think of any fun, "back to the land" type novels they're read recently? Hippy stuff? Inspiring stuff? Some of the things dh wants to do are so cool, I just haven't found my equilibrium and my inspiration yet.

 

How about humorous stuff? P.G. Wodehouse is one of my favorite authors; Love Among the Chickens is one of his lesser known works.

 

There is also the back to the land, humorous classic, The Egg and I, by Betty MacDonald.

 

On a more serious note, people have raved about Barbara Kingsolver's Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, which I have not read.

 

Later,

Jane

[Rebecca in GA]

Can anyone think of any fun, "back to the land" type novels they're read recently? Hippy stuff? Inspiring stuff? Some of the things dh wants to do are so cool, I just haven't found my equilibrium and my inspiration yet.

 

One I greatly enjoyed was by Doris Janzen Longacre, who wrote the "More With Less Cookbook," which I also recommend. It's called "Living More With Less." It was written in the 70s but made me rethink some things.

 

"Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" is another good one, as is "Green Living." Hope you find some peace about your journey.

[Carol in Cal.]

Another, more obscure one is "The Fifth Sacred Thing." That book is written by Starhawk, and is not very Christian friendly to say the least. But it is inspiring and beautiful in its own way. Have you ever seen those old bumper stickers that say, "Visualize Peace?" I never knew what they were talking about until I read this book. Peace is not just the absence of war. And it's not easy, but it's rewarding. Those are the premises of the book, which is utopian, set in the San Francisco Bay Area, and very 'green'. I think that you would like it.

 

Another great book that is non-fiction is "This Organic Life" which is about a couple who attempted to establish vegetable self-sufficiency in upstate New York--not the best climate for that in the world, that's for sure! It is engaging and very well-written.

[Rosie_0801]

You said your dh "would love to grow most of your food." So he doesn't right now? If I was you, I'd offer to support him in that worthy project (and buy some heirloom varieties so I could feel exotic.) I'd tell him I'd consider the rest of his proposals if he was willing to spend his holidays (the full yearly allotment, whatever that is where you are) within walking distance from the house. During that time I would go and stay with my sister so he could have the really hippy experience of doing the housework and schooling the kids! If he isn't willing to live in metaphorical cardboard box, you shouldn't have to either. You may have the same address, but husbands and wives don't live the same life. You know what it's like to hold a paying job, but I'm sure he doesn't know what it's like to hold such a demanding non-paying job.

Now if I was to come out with this to my dh, he'd absolutely refuse the experiment, but take the strength of feeling I was trying to portray and back off.

Rosie

[JessMcG]

I've been trying to think of inspiration...

 

Do you know of the couple that left teaching jobs, moved to CA and homesteaded with their 4 sons, 3 of whom eventually went to Harvard? Colfax is their family name, the father wrote a book that described their life as it related to homeschooling...Homeschooling for Excellence

 

I used to subscribe to Backwoods Country Home. I think they have a website and discussion forum, that may be a good resource.

[chiguirre]

He'd love to not have a car at all. He'd love to grow most of our food. He'd like to use alternative sources of energy, etc, etc, etc...

 

If he really wants to live without a car, is he willing to move to a place with public transportation and walkable distances? If you do that, you won't be able to grow your own food. If you stay where you are, could you put in a big garden? Keep chickens? Realistically, if you live out of town you need to have a car and you have to use it to get where you need to be.

 

Maybe you could have a brainstorming session with your whole family to decide what ways you could be more green in your current situation. Everyone could veto any idea that they would not be willing to implement so you wouldn't end up with dropping piano lessons to save gas.