My kid won't eat!!

[mommymilkies]

I have three wonderful eaters in my family. They will at least not make horrible comments about the food and try things out. But my 3.5 year old...I'm really surprised she's still alive.

 

After weaning a little over a year ago, she's pretty much stopped eating anything. Unless it's dessert or french fries. She is underweight and short and *needs* to eat. Force feeding her would not work. She's the world's most stubborn child. Now I do not think she's actually going to die, by any means, but I need to figure out how to get this child to eat even if it's not chocolate.

 

I know it's not sensory. I have another kid with sensory issues. There is no taste/texture/look/smell in particular that she dislikes. For instance, I snuck fish into her mashed potatoes the other day and she asked for seconds. I'm not usually a fan of sneaking food into kids, but I figured I didn't lie. I didn't even tell her what it was besides "dinner". Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies. :lol: And about once a week we can get her to eat something healthy if we get her through that first bite. It usually takes me babying her and feeding her (she asks me to). But this takes about an hour for the first bite alone. That would be more manageable if she was an only child, but I have 4 other kids, housework, and activities to drive kids to. And it only works rarely.

 

But I can't do that for the rest of her life and there's only so much I can sneak into potatoes. We eat pretty healthy. My dh is diabetic and I am a big believer in nutrition, so other than rare treats, I do not make junk food like cookies. I am in no way ok with just giving her sugary treats so that she'll eat, too. Besides the fact that she gets horrible diarrhea for days after eating sweets or too much fruit, we have autoimmune disorders in the family, so nutrition is a priority before taste preferences.

 

I never thought I'd get to this point. I won't be a short order cook. I was for one of my brothers growing up (I cooked all of the food), and I refuse to do it again. That brother has some serious eating issues and I believe in eating as a family. This child can not live off of fruit, potatoes, and chocolate alone. Help me? :bigear:

[JenneinCA]

I would consider getting the OT evaluation for her. My oldest has obvious texture issues. My middle didn't have the same issues and it took me a long time to figure out that he had issues too. I could have saved myself a lot of grief if I had gotten the evaluation for him instead of assuming he was normal and stubborn and not looking further.

[RachelFlores]

First off, she is 3 and 1/2 which, in my experience can be one of the most stuborn ages EVER. My son is that age and when he digs in his heels, it can last hours. Fortunately they seem to get somewhat better by age four or five (my daughter was about 4 and 1/2 when we saw significant improvement).

 

Second, I have a sister who is, still, at 26, an insanely picky eater. My parents very rarely catered to it. They generally would make her try everything on her plate, only one bite was necessary, before she could leave the table. She sometimes sat at the dinner table till bedtime. It wasn't just that she didn't like the food, but it became a clash of wills. She was always skinny and underweight, but never unhealthy from it. She is still a very picky eater, BUT chooses very healthy food. She just doesn't like...an extremely long list of food.

 

After watching my sister grow up, I decided to take a different tack with my own children. They have to eat their dinner, the one I make, if they want dessert (usually a small sweet treat or fruit smoothy). If they don't want the dinner I make and don't care about dessert, they can have left overs from a previous night or peanutbutter and jelly. I will not cook a separate meal and they don't get a treat for it, but there are alternatives. This way I avoid the clashing of wills. My daughter is a fairly pick eater, but my son is willing to eat most everything. The funny thing is that the dessert incentive is enough that my daughter is usually willing to eat her food to get it even if she makes faces while she does it.

[abbeyej]

Age 4 is usually when picky eating peaks -- so you might well be at the worst of it. My own daughter was picky to the point that I was tearing my hair out and she was crying over meals *regularly* around her 4th birthday. Like you, I'm absolutely unwilling to be a short-order cook for a picky child and it was very important to me that my child eat a nutritious diet, not a diet of sugar and starch only.

 

One extra factor: in retrospect, I think dd ate less in that period because she was growing less, not the other way around. She was diagnosed with Constitutional Growth Delay (which is not a disease -- it's a name for the growth pattern some kids have and which tends to run in families, though not everyone in the family would follow the pattern), and most kids with this pattern grow very little in the preschool years (roughly 3-5). After 5 some time, dd started growing at a normal rate and continues to do so -- but her height is about 2-3 years behind her age-peers as is her bone development. She's expected to catch up (though never be tall) a couple of years after most of her friends have gone through puberty and stopped growing.

 

Anyway, so it's possible that she doesn't *need* as many calories because she's not growing as much -- not the other way around.

 

We just stuck to our guns. Everybody was offered healthy food at every meal and for occasional snacks. She wasn't given the opportunity to eat nothing but starch. I'd serve small servings of everything, and if she at the (tiny) servings of protein and veggies, she could have more servings of grain or starch. She had to try everything, but I didn't push her to eat large quantities of anything. Some nights she chose not to eat. I made sure the food she had earlier in the day was also healthy and nutritious.

 

At 9 years old, she's not picky at all any more. At 4, it was awful. She only wanted to eat sweets, bread, and rice and considered everything else punishment.

 

But now, she happily eats pretty much anything. We can go anywhere and know she'll find plenty to eat. She'd still prefer to eat treats full time, but wouldn't many of us? ;) She doesn't mind meat, veggies, fruits of all kinds, etc...

 

So... It won't be "forever". But you might be in for a tough year or two.

[AK_Mom4]

Both our boys went thru the picky stage at that age. We survived it by serving healty food in small bites (raw veggies cut small with hummus or dip, cubes of cheese, banana slices).

 

When they hit about 5yo, they were willing to vary their diet from mostly white foods, to try-most-anything. I have one son who is still a little picky, but not unreasonable.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I'm old.

I'm from a generation where kids ate what was put in front of them or went hungry.

That sounds cruel by today's standards.

But, hunger is a great motivator to eat.

Serve a meal, leave it out for a reasonable amount of time (an hour?), put all food away, DO NOT SERVE more food until the next meal time.

Make an effort to serve something the child likes often.

I'll probably get slammed for posting this.

[KungFuPanda]

My daughter ate like a bird from ages 2-8. She was a tiny baby (5 1/2 lbs full term) and has lived under the 5th perrcentile her while life. She was rather picky and preferred plain foods and didn't care for most vegetables. I used to be fascinated when she had friends over and they actually ate a whole meal, or an entire kids meal in a restaurant. It really amazed me.

 

Somewhere around 7, the pickiness gradually wore off and she adds more and more foods to he diet. She's 14 now and eats like a normal person now :-). She doesn't consume the mass quantities of food that most teens her age can put away, but it is an impressive increase for her. She's still doesn't like a lot of sauces, but she has no trouble eating a few things at most meals. I think she will always prefer fruit over veggies, but I'll take it.

[abbeyej]

I'm old.

I'm from a generation where kids ate what was put in front of them or went hungry.

That sounds cruel by today's standards.

But, hunger is a great motivator to eat.

Serve a meal, leave it out for a reasonable amount of time (an hour?), put all food away, DO NOT SERVE more food until the next meal time.

Make an effort to serve something the child likes often.

I'll probably get slammed for posting this.

 

I basically agree, but I did one thing differently.

 

I would leave dd's plate from one meal out (or in the fridge, if it were something that might spoil) from one meal until almost time for the next. At dinner, the plate was kept around until her bedtime. This way I felt less like I was starving her, but she still had to eat the healthy food I'd served for a meal rather than trying to angle for an alternative "snack".

[Misty]

I went through this with my VERY INTENSE, strong-willed daughter, now 8yrs old. She has Asperger's and refused all solid food until the age of 3. Then when she did begin eating, she severely self-limited to dry, crunchy textures (crackers) and milk. Feeding therapy did nothing for her. Turns out she had food sensitivities. Once we removed the foods she was sensitive to (which happened to be those she craved the most), she began to eat. As a bonus, her behavior normalized and her rigidity and anxiety improved.

 

And I would say if your dh has diabetes and there are other autoimmune issues in the house.. You definitely have good reason to look into food intolerances, specifically gluten intolerance.

 

Another thought is the fact that she is craving only carbs and sugars.. Carbs and sugars feed yeast, which is why someone with yeast overgrowth craves them. This causes behavioral and gut issues. So I think this would be worth looking into as well.

[gardenmom5]

I know it's not sensory. I have another kid with sensory issues. There is no taste/texture/look/smell in particular that she dislikes.

 

It could be sensory from the standpoint she doens't realise she's hungry. I finally figured out that was why my little one wasn't eating - becuase he too had no pattern for refusing things.

[Ria]

I basically agree, but I did one thing differently.

 

I would leave dd's plate from one meal out (or in the fridge, if it were something that might spoil) from one meal until almost time for the next. At dinner, the plate was kept around until her bedtime. This way I felt less like I was starving her, but she still had to eat the healthy food I'd served for a meal rather than trying to angle for an alternative "snack".

 

We did the same thing.

[clarkacademy]

I'm old.

I'm from a generation where kids ate what was put in front of them or went hungry.

That sounds cruel by today's standards.

But, hunger is a great motivator to eat.

Serve a meal, leave it out for a reasonable amount of time (an hour?), put all food away, DO NOT SERVE more food until the next meal time.

Make an effort to serve something the child likes often.

I'll probably get slammed for posting this.

 

 

:iagree: I really agree. I have a son with autism raised this way and it is rare he refuses to eat something, if he can eat it I don't think much about the next kid saying they don't like it.

[Sputterduck]

When my son had an eating problem (oral defensiveness and recovering from oral surgery and learning to eat solids for the first time) I was told by others who've been there and I also read in a very wonderful book on eating issues that I can't remember the name of that it's my job to offer healthy food and their job to put it in their mouth.

 

I never cajoled, encouraged, bargained, forced, begged, suggested, or asked my child to eat anything.

 

I set down a plate with healthy food for him and sat down to eat mine. If he didn't eat, I never said a thing. I did talk about how sweet and yummy the carrots were or how flavorful the chicken was to whoever else we were eating with. That helps to pique curiosity. If a plate went mostly unfinished, it went into the fridge and the same exact thing was handed to him for the next meal. Not a word was ever said about it. Junk food was never around. In fact, someone during that time opened my fridge and said, "It looks like a health food store in here." Well, sure it did! I was teaching my child to eat. I was setting up habits that would impact his life for the rest of his life.

 

Also, (for anyone reading this whose child is dealing with oral defensiveness) I would smile big and play with him and when he would laugh I would lightly touch his mouth. He was scared of anything near his mouth because he had choked so many times. This got him over that and eventually I would do it with a spoon. Soon he was letting a spoon in his mouth without fear. I connected his idea of "spoon" with joy and play instead of choking. His therapist loved me because I came up with this before we got into see her. The wait to get in with her was long, so I had to do something.

 

Now I'd be willing to put my child up against anyone's here for a contest of which child will eat the strangest food items. And this was a child who at one point had no experience with hunger/satiation cycles, who was scared of spoons or hands near his mouth, and ate nothing at his first birthday while every one else had cake. I think I therapized him too far because some of his favorite foods are pickled beets, stewed prunes, and oyster stew. :lol:

Edited August 27, 2011 by Sputterduck

[Sputterduck]

I'm old.

I'm from a generation where kids ate what was put in front of them or went hungry.

That sounds cruel by today's standards.

But, hunger is a great motivator to eat.

Serve a meal, leave it out for a reasonable amount of time (an hour?), put all food away, DO NOT SERVE more food until the next meal time.

Make an effort to serve something the child likes often.

I'll probably get slammed for posting this.

 

It always confuses me when people complain that their kid won't eat when the kid gets fed whatever they like right after refusing a meal. Well, of course they won't eat then!

[Tammy (TX)]

I went through this with my VERY INTENSE, strong-willed daughter, now 8yrs old. She has Asperger's and refused all solid food until the age of 3. Then when she did begin eating, she severely self-limited to dry, crunchy textures (crackers) and milk. Feeding therapy did nothing for her. Turns out she had food sensitivities. Once we removed the foods she was sensitive to (which happened to be those she craved the most), she began to eat. As a bonus, her behavior normalized and her rigidity and anxiety improved.

 

And I would say if your dh has diabetes and there are other autoimmune issues in the house.. You definitely have good reason to look into food intolerances, specifically gluten intolerance.

 

Another thought is the fact that she is craving only carbs and sugars.. Carbs and sugars feed yeast, which is why someone with yeast overgrowth craves them. This causes behavioral and gut issues. So I think this would be worth looking into as well.

 

:iagree:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Okay, here is what we've decided.

 

First, I set the timer on the microwave to keep everyone at the table at least X long because it is seriously hard for a slow non-eater to be motivated to even think about it if faster kids are done quickly. Also, we hoped it would help our very fast eater to slow down. I will say that it is NOWHERE near an hour nor would I do that.

 

We also have rules about what can be said about the food or a person's hunger level or anything of the sort. Anyone who breaks the rule is asking to be sent to their room for a time out the first time and until the end of the meal the second time. It doesn't happen much. Unfortunately, where the behavior stops food from being eaten, sending people from the table results in throwing up. But he has eaten after puking so..........

 

Then I absolutely REFUSE to stress about the eating.

 

I do get onto him for playing. He can't push his plate away either. And we don't give him a drink until after the meal.

 

It is my job to offer him food regularly. I am supposed to offer him higher calorie and higher fat foods. He prefers veggies and fruits (how nice an issue that COULD be!). I cannot take responsibility for his eating or I'll be doing so long term, damage our relationship, make food times stressful, and possibly make figuring out what is wrong take longer.

 

Of course, we are closely monitored by a doctor and looking at further testing. He's already had a feeding specialist eval as well as an OT eval. So we're looking at medical causes, allergens, etc. We *know* there is an emotional/behavioral component, but I'm not convinced that is the only thing we're dealing with. We did have a breakthrough on the emotional side recently which made a real difference in how much he ate and yet it's not enough.

 

ETA: Munchkin can only have water (or anything else but we really only drink water) after he has his Pediasure (3) for the day. Though Pediasure isn't healthy by any means, he will drink it AND it is paid for by WIC (with prescription). At first, we only got one or two down him, but now he'll drink it so he can have water.

Edited August 28, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[myfatherslily]

It could be sensory from the standpoint she doens't realise she's hungry. I finally figured out that was why my little one wasn't eating - becuase he too had no pattern for refusing things.

 

Huh. What kind of sensory thing is it to not realize you're hungry? I ask because I generally eat breakfast in the morning only because I know I'll end up really crabby later if I don't. It's usually not a hunger thing. I would eat a lot less in a day if I based it solely on hunger. And I am underweight.

[mommymilkies]

Thanks, everyone.

 

I've tried offering leftovers or pb & J if they don't like what I make. I did for about 1.5 years until recently. My kids stopped eating anything I made and literally lived off of pb&j for months, which is extremely unhealthy. I finally put a stop to it. Especially since one of my daughters has hypothyroidism and peanuts are a mild goitrogen. They won't eat lunchmeat and sunflower butter, etc. is very expensive. Plus the bad attitudes they adopted about food knowing they can just make a sandwich and complain all through dinner (with their faces, I forbid them speaking badly of the food).

 

Dessert incentive doesn't work. She'll sneak and find it and steal it if I'm out of the room.

 

This is also the only child I've ever known that will actually follow through on a hunger strike. It's crazy. She really will not eat for days instead of eating anything I offer.

 

She says she's starving all of the time, so I know it's not that she's not hungry. She cries from hunger with a huge amount of a variety of food in front of her. Even things she usually likes. One day she'll decide pizza is nauseating and cry.

 

At the moment, I am giving meals to her and then not giving her anything else until the next meal/snack. I do try to serve foods they like. In fact, 99% of foods I make are directly requested or child approved by all but my 3 yo. The only foods she likes are bread, potatoes, and sweets. I make a lot of bread and potatoes, but one can only live off of those for so long. ;)

 

She does play at the table. She gets down to play piano, stands on her head or just stands up in her booster seat, etc. It's nerve wracking and after about 30 minutes of it, I'm so worn down that I just leave the table and have to defuse.

 

She is allergic to cashews and had a dairy allergy as a baby that went away at about 1 yo. My 6 yo has had about every test imaginable for Celiacs or gluten because of her Hashimoto's. But other than her autoimmune system being obviously outrageously depleted, she tested negative for everything gluten or wheat related. I'm assuming it's the same for my 3 yo.

 

A weird thing she does have going on that I suspect may be dietary or allergy related, though, is that most days for the past year or so, she has had 2-15 bowel movements a day. Usually at the higher end and an increasing number of "accidents". It's freaking me out, but because of her stomach pain recently (we thought it was a UTI), the doc ordered a laxative which is NOT indicated, IMO, since she's had clinical diarrhea for a year.

 

There's a lot of great tips on here. But more than anything, I am SO relieved to hear I'm not the only one and that it often goes away!!! Thank you all.

[Tammy (TX)]

I'm sure you're so frustrated! You've gotten lots of good advice here.

 

I wasn't going to post again, but the information you added about her other issues raises so many red flags that point to some kind of serious allergy (particulary gluten.) The family history of autoimmunity (especially in a young sibling), dairy allergy that was "outgrown", short stature, underweight, diarrhea, stomach pain.

 

I've been going through all of this myself (and my family.) I would get her tested. Realize, though, that there are many accounts of the tests coming back negative but the person improving greatly after eliminating gluten and dairy (or whatever they're allergic to.)

 

If she's anything like me, the foods that she likes are the bland ones that probably don't hurt her little tummy as much, even if they might be what she's allergic to. It sounds like she's hurting and just can't handle digesting some foods - it probably changes depending on the day. It's tough!

 

Good luck finding out what works for her!

[ondreeuh]

A weird thing she does have going on that I suspect may be dietary or allergy related, though, is that most days for the past year or so, she has had 2-15 bowel movements a day. Usually at the higher end and an increasing number of "accidents". It's freaking me out, but because of her stomach pain recently (we thought it was a UTI), the doc ordered a laxative which is NOT indicated, IMO, since she's had clinical diarrhea for a year.

 

What looks like diarrhea can actually be encopresis, caused by severe constipation. What happens is the stool is retained so long that it becomes "stuck," and liquid stool leaks around it. The child doesn't have control over the soiling. The lack of appetite, belly pain, and soiling are big red flags for encopresis. I would definitely get that evaluated PRONTO.

 

Dairy sensitivity can cause constipation too. I would look into getting some testing done (via Enterolab or similar) to see whether she has intolerances that aren't picked up on allergy testing.

[Misty]

She is allergic to cashews and had a dairy allergy as a baby that went away at about 1 yo. My 6 yo has had about every test imaginable for Celiacs or gluten because of her Hashimoto's. But other than her autoimmune system being obviously outrageously depleted, she tested negative for everything gluten or wheat related. I'm assuming it's the same for my 3 yo.

 

A weird thing she does have going on that I suspect may be dietary or allergy related, though, is that most days for the past year or so, she has had 2-15 bowel movements a day. Usually at the higher end and an increasing number of "accidents". It's freaking me out, but because of her stomach pain recently (we thought it was a UTI), the doc ordered a laxative which is NOT indicated, IMO, since she's had clinical diarrhea for a year.

 

You do not outgrow an allergy.. Your body just adjusts and begins to respond differently as you grow out of infancy.

 

Testing for Celiac is not accurate most of the time. Have you done IgG testing for food sensitivities/intolerances through a reputable lab for your 6yr old? Both girls have symptoms that are very much indicative of gluten intolerance. I would do an elimination diet or IgG testing ASAP.

[Misty]

What looks like diarrhea can actually be encopresis, caused by severe constipation. .

 

:iagree:

And encopresis is caused by gluten intolerance. There have been several case studies to show this and our experiences were also consistent with this. One of my daughters had encopresis up until the day we removed gluten.

 

 

I would look into getting some testing done (via Enterolab or similar) to see whether she has intolerances that aren't picked up on allergy testing.

 

:iagree:

Enterolab would be a good place to start for the gluten testing as well as Great Plains Labs for the IgG testing I mentioned in my other post. You want the IgG food allergy panel which tests for 93 different foods http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com

[mommymilkies]

What looks like diarrhea can actually be encopresis, caused by severe constipation. What happens is the stool is retained so long that it becomes "stuck," and liquid stool leaks around it. The child doesn't have control over the soiling. The lack of appetite, belly pain, and soiling are big red flags for encopresis. I would definitely get that evaluated PRONTO.

 

Dairy sensitivity can cause constipation too. I would look into getting some testing done (via Enterolab or similar) to see whether she has intolerances that aren't picked up on allergy testing.

 

It's not liquid, though, it's softer sometimes, but not liquid. She really does just go that much-there's no constipation. The belly pain went away, too. It was just for a couple of days (that's why we thought UTI). She's not 4 yet, so I'd hate to label it encopresis, too.

 

As far as her dairy issues-I thought she was sensitive to dairy when I was breastfeeding her. At about 10 months old, she had no reaction to it and I'm fairly certain she was just reacting to Cashews in the first place, which she is definitely allergic to. I just cut dairy out to make sure since my 6 yo was so allergic to dairy-bleeding hives, projectile vomiting, etc.

 

The endocrinologist seems to think I'm overreacting about possible allergies. Her Pediatrician thinks cutting out gluten won't hurt (her doctor had stage 4 colon cancer and so is not fond of gluten lol), but the tests don't seem to indicate it's necessary. We tried for a couple of weeks, but it's hard to. My dh is diabetic and "needs" fast to make food around like sandwiches and we spent a lot of money on gluten free alternatives before the tests came back negative, so I don't think he'll be supportive. She did have the skin test done when she was 1.5 or 2 and they all came back negative, even though the doctor did say she's obviously dairy allergic when he saw her rashes. She also "outgrew" that right before her thyroid problems started.

 

I had my 6 yo tested 2 or 3 seperate times for gluten.

Her Gliadin Antibody (IGG, IGA):

IGG >100 H (range <11)

IGA 5 Normal (range <11)

 

Tissue Transglutaminase Antibody IGA <3 (flag range <5)

Immunoglobulin A 86 (range 33-235)

 

Thyroid peroxidase >1000 H (range <35)

Thyroglobulin AB 1431 H (range <20)

Thyroglobulin <.2 L (range 2-35)

[Misty]

I had my 6 yo tested 2 or 3 seperate times for gluten.

Her Gliadin Antibody (IGG, IGA):

IGG >100 H (range <11)

IGA 5 Normal (range <11)

 

Sounds like you've done a lot of thinking on this and have come to conclusions already so I'm not going to press it.. But I just wanted to let you know that IgG's are NOT accurate unless done with a reputable lab such as Great Plains or Alletess. I would think about the Enterolab stool test as well. IgG at any old lab is not going to tell you much. They do maybe 50 per year while Great Plains does thousands. They literally wrote the book on IgG food allergy testing and know how to give you accurate results. Also, if you were off gluten at the time of testing, the numbers would have been low. You have to be eating it for the antibodies to be present.

 

I do believe there is something amiss with your girls.. If it's not gluten, then I'm not sure what.. But definitely something. You can't have all these autoimmune issues, thyroid issues, and allergies going on in one family along with severe picky eating, bowel issues, behavior issues, etc. and NOT have something that is causing it. I don't know.. Interesting.. I still think gluten, but that's just me and my "gluten-is-evil" attituide. :)

 

I agree that going gluten free is expensive, especially at first. But your dh's diabetes will most likely improve with a gluten free diet. Everyone's health will most likely improve. Eventually you learn to make things from scratch and you don't have to buy the pre-packaged stuff anymore. The cost begins to go down because you are not trying new things and buying the pre-packaged stuff anymore. Things have pretty much evened out for us now. There are so many GF things just at Wal-mart even, mixed in with everything else.

 

If your kids are gluten intolerant, then it's dangerous to allow them to keep eating it. They will be more susceptible to cancers, degenerative diseases, neurological disorders, and more autoimmune diseases later down the road. If you haven't read Dr. Hyman's article yet, here it is.. http://drhyman.com/gluten-what-you-dont-know-might-kill-you-11/

 

Here is my favorite GF lunch.. It's very quick..

 

When I make chicken for dinner, I always make extra in stir fry fashion to store in small portions in the freezer to pull out for quick fixes later. You can do anything with these portions, but my favorite thing to do is shred the chicken in my food chopper thingy.. Then I mix the chicken with a little salsa. I shallow fry some flat corn tortillas (Mission brand is GF.. look for it at any grocery store) till they are crunchy.. Top with the chicken/salsa mixture.. YUM.. So quick and easy. So many things are naturally gluten free.. eggs, meats, veggies, fruits.. You can do this for cheap if you don't eat a lot of baked goods.

 

Okay, I said I wasn't going to press the issue, but looks like I did anyway. I'm not trying to stress you out or make you upset, I promise.. I'm just providing as much information as I can so you can make an informed decision as to whether to pursue more testing or try a longer elimination diet (because two weeks is not long enough for anyone). If you decide to pursue this, please let me know if you have any questions. And my apologies if I have stepped on your toes.

[mommymilkies]

:lol: You haven't stepped on my toes! It's something I've been thinking a lot about. But my in-laws and dh are adamant about trying gluten free again. She was still on gluten for the tests. I don't know where the tests were sent to, but it was in D.C., I think, and done through Riley's Children's Hospital. I've been reading up a lot about dietary issues. Maybe after next pay day, I'll try a 2 week gluten free ordeal. Do you think that would be enough time to see any results?

[Misty]

Maybe after next pay day, I'll try a 2 week gluten free ordeal. Do you think that would be enough time to see any results?

 

No.. Two MONTHS is the minimum for a gluten-free trial. 3-6 months is ideal. You're not going to see any improvements in just two weeks. It takes at least 6 months for gluten to clear out of your system after going GF. And it takes at least 3 weeks to be 100% sure you are actually 100% gluten free. There will be unintentional slip-ups, infractions, cross-contamination, etc.. So you won't actually be 100% gluten free until you are at least 2 or 3 weeks in.. There is a learning curve. And if someone accidentally eats gluten, then that person has to start all over from day one with the trial. The slightest crumb can set you back months in the healing process.. Gluten is extremely destructive to those who are sensitive.

 

Sorry.. I know this is not what you wanted to hear. But if you can get this GF trial accomplished, you can officially rule gluten intolerance in or out FOR SURE if you give this trial a 100% effort for at least 2 months (3 would be better though).

[mommymilkies]

I think my dh would kill me if I went that long since the tests were fine. :lol: I think I'll try cutting out dairy first for a couple of weeks and see if that makes a difference at all.

[ondreeuh]

I have been trying to do a gluten-free trial for my son, and it has been so hard! We have all the GF products we need but there are a few things dh picked up at Costco that are not GF and so we keep slipping. I even used a pie crust to make Taco Pie and realized AFTER dinner that I had just given my son gluten. Dh thinks we should just get the stool test and skip all of this. We've invested too much in GF food (bread mix, rice noodles, GF mushroom soup, etc.) to keep screwing up and if it turns out we don't need to after all ... then all if this stress and expense is for waste.

[gingersmom]

My picky eater is about to turn 15. She is still a picky eater.

 

Till she was about 10 she only ate plain bagels for lunch. And she never ever finished the whole thing. Not even close.

 

No milk. Pizza with no cheese. Very little/no meat. No chicken.

 

She loved salads. I always said she was born a vegetarian.

 

She was always skinny/borderline too skinny, but very healthy.

 

As she has hit 14/15 she has begun to eat/try more foods (she loves veggie sushi, chickpeas, she still loves cheerios and hates sugary cereals).

 

I would just let her be and not make an issue out of it.

[Tammy (TX)]

 

I had my 6 yo tested 2 or 3 seperate times for gluten.

Her Gliadin Antibody (IGG, IGA):

IGG >100 H (range <11)

IGA 5 Normal (range <11)

 

 

 

Her IGG gliadin is more than 9 times higher than normal (that tests gluten sensitivity.) It reminds me of a video I just watched the other day about a little girl with non-celiac gluten sensitivity - scroll down to the video titled Part 3. The only thing that flagged for her was the IGG gliadin and a gluten free diet made her well.

http://www.adventuresofaglutenfreemom.com/2010/08/dr-rodney-ford-and-a-gluten-free-planet/

 

Her whole blog is very helpful, and has SO much information.

 

You can tell those of us that have dealt with gluten problems are quite passionate about it, lol. Most doctors miss it or just don't know. The science is complicated and some of it is new information, so I feel compelled to tell people what I've learned. I've spent way too much time figuring this all out.:glare:

 

I know it's hard to think of going gluten free for the family - I did it several times over the last few years (before testing) and always went back to "normal" because it was easier. Now that I have to eat gluten free, though, I just make it work. It just takes some internet research for naturally gluten free foods and then some time to get used to it.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide! :grouphug:

Edited August 28, 2011 by Tammy (TX)

[mommymilkies]

Thank you for the link. I don't know why her IGg is so high. Should I take her to a GI or an allergist, do you think? The endocrinologist only said it was negative but it's not really her area and she knows nothing about it. Because the 6 yo was having terrible stomach pain and vomiting very frequently (almost every day). It has almost gone away now that she's on synthroid, though.

 

Ondreeuh....I hear you! :lol:

[Misty]

I don't know why her IGg is so high.

 

IgG antibodies run high if there is food intolerance or sensitivity to that food.

 

Should I take her to a GI or an allergist, do you think?.

 

No, they don't understand (or realize the significance of) IgG allergies most of the time.. They only deal with IgE and/or IgA. If you have high IgG to gluten, then you should pull gluten. Especially coupled with all of the symptoms that your girls have that indicate sensitivity to gluten. You don't need any other testing or doctor appts.

[Soror]

Oh, my goodness. 2-15 stools a day is not normal, there is something going on! I would agree with pp blood tests for Celiac are extremely inaccurate, besides the fact that one can be sensitive without Celiac's and you've already got autoimmune issues in the family. That is plenty of red flags. I would agree w/ pp about the milk as well, more likely her symptoms have just changed. I would strongly agree to check into those issues, we went w/ Enterolab here as well.

[Tammy (TX)]

IgG antibodies run high if there is food intolerance or sensitivity to that food.

 

 

 

No, they don't understand (or realize the significance of) IgG allergies most of the time.. They only deal with IgE and/or IgA. If you have high IgG to gluten, then you should pull gluten. Especially coupled with all of the symptoms that your girls have that indicate sensitivity to gluten. You don't need any other testing or doctor appts.

 

:iagree:

 

Very few mainstream doctors have caught up the the research. It's absurd that a test shows sky-high antibodies to gluten and it's dismissed as "negative" because the celiac tests were negative. :confused: How does that make sense?

 

That test makes it very clear that your daughter's body reacts to gluten - the sensitivity runs in families and can cause all sorts of problems.

 

Like Misty said, I would feel comfortable switching to a gluten free house based on that test and the symptoms of your 3yo. Some of the symptoms are very severe and you might be surprised how many other things clear up for the rest of the family. You should probably not do a lot of dairy, either - try cutting out milk and ice cream first, that's what we did.

 

If you really need a doctor to diagnose it and help you through it, though, you'll have to search for one that understands. Call and ask if they work with non-celiac gluten sensitivity(although it's possible that your 3yo or anyone else in the family could still test positive for celiac.)

 

I hope you can find an up-to-date GI doctor that understands but it's not likely. When I asked my allergist about gluten he laughed at me. When I asked about my thyroid, my primary doctor offered me an antidepressant and my gyno said I was fine. It was only when I went to naturopathic/chiropractic doctors that they found my Hashimoto's and told me to stop eating gluten (among other things I am allergic to.) I've never even seen an endo or GI doctor because the allergy-free diet has worked for me and I don't need them telling me I'm wrong based on their outdated knowledge.

 

Look online for lots of resources about going gluen free! The food doesn't necessarily have to be gross or expensive, lol. Just today, my picky eater requested zucchini noodles (zucchini cut with a julienne peeler and sauteed) for his spaghetti instead of the expensive gluten free pasta. I couldn't believe it!

 

Good luck to you!

[mommymilkies]

Thanks, everyone.

 

We tried the GAPS diet for 2 days...and failed ridiculously. I did decide to cut out refined sugars (small amount of honey/maple syrup allowed) and dairy for my two with dairy allergy histories, though. 2 days after being dairy free again, I slipped up and gave my 3 yo (the one that won't eat) a glass of milk. Morning brain fog-I'm an idiot. And she has this pinpoint red rash all around her mouth and has had horrible stomach pain and diarrhea all day. Not to mention the behavioral problems...

 

Is 2 days enough time to have been out of her system, or should I look at another cause? She didn't have anything out of the ordinary today.

[abbeyej]

Thanks, everyone.

 

We tried the GAPS diet for 2 days...and failed ridiculously. I did decide to cut out refined sugars (small amount of honey/maple syrup allowed) and dairy for my two with dairy allergy histories, though. 2 days after being dairy free again, I slipped up and gave my 3 yo (the one that won't eat) a glass of milk. Morning brain fog-I'm an idiot. And she has this pinpoint red rash all around her mouth and has had horrible stomach pain and diarrhea all day. Not to mention the behavioral problems...

 

Is 2 days enough time to have been out of her system, or should I look at another cause? She didn't have anything out of the ordinary today.

 

It's not enough time for it to be *completely* out of her system, but if she's very sensitive, it's certainly possible that what you saw was a reaction. It sounds like it was. To be more sure, keep her off dairy completely for a minimum of 3 weeks before re-introducing to see what happens.

[Misty]

It's not enough time for it to be *completely* out of her system, but if she's very sensitive, it's certainly possible that what you saw was a reaction. It sounds like it was. To be more sure, keep her off dairy completely for a minimum of 3 weeks before re-introducing to see what happens.

 

:iagree:

 

And FWIW, we can't do GAPS diet here either.. My kids would vomit at the sight of a bone broth. :ack2:

 

We are, however, gluten free and mostly dairy free. When we do have dairy (on GF pizza, etc.) my sensitive dd takes enzymes beforehand. She is also soy free. I wouldn't rely on enzymes though until you've eliminated your problem foods for a while and allowed the gut to heal, which takes a LONG time.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Force feeding her would not work. She's the world's most stubborn child....

 

Besides the fact that she gets horrible diarrhea for days after eating sweets or too much fruit...:

 

Well, would you be inclined to eat if much of what you ate made you sick? Chronic diarrhea and being underweight are the "classic" symptoms of celiac disease. Also, celiac is highly linked to autoimmune diseases, which you said run in the family.

 

Is your daughter stubborn about everything, or just eating? Your first post almost makes it sound like cooking being convenient is more important to you than your daughter's health. I'm sure that isn't true, or you wouldn't be asking all of us for help. :001_smile:

 

Please remember that your daughter isn't your brother. She sounds like a little girl who's body is sick and needs to be fixed.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Playing at the table sounds normal enough, although annoying for parents.

 

 

[quote name=mommymilkies;

A weird thing she does have going on that I suspect may be dietary or allergy related' date=' though, is that most days for the past year or so, she has had 2-15 bowel movements a day. Usually at the higher end and an increasing number of "accidents". It's freaking me out, but because of her stomach pain recently [/quote]

 

This is not normal. Let me say it again. 2-15 BMs per day is not normal! Something is wrong. I suspect that once somebody figures out what it is, the eating battles will start to go away, or at least be nothing worse than average for age 3.

 

I had chronic diarrhea in high school because I thought it was normal. I also had 8 years of chronic sinus infections that doctors couldn't figure out the cause of. It all went away when I went off gluten. The doctors (in the 1990s) thought I was nuts. It was another 12 years before a gluten intolerance test came back positive. I'm glad I ignored them and stayed off gluten.

 

Going GF poses no health risk. It's annoying, but if gluten isn't actually a problem and she avoids it, no harm is done. The other choice is to keep your daughter on gluten (or dairy, or whatever else is suspect) and risk it damaging her body while you wait for a test to show a problem.

 

For a biopsy to show celiac damage, the damage has to be really, really bad. Blood tests often show false negatives, as well. Many people are deficient in IgA antibodies, so IgA to gluten may come back as "normal," but only because the immune system is already damaged and can't make enough IgA to give a positive test result.

 

My salivary and intestinal levels of IgA are extremely low, so a doctor would be foolish to rely on IgA results for gluten or gliadin for me. A false negative would likely show up on a blood test.

[JumpyTheFrog]

And she has this pinpoint red rash all around her mouth and has had horrible stomach pain and diarrhea all day. Not to mention the behavioral problems...

 

Don't ignore this, especially since you thought she may have had a milk problem as a baby.

 

It sounds like a GFCF trial is in order, even if your husband thinks you're nuts. Surely he doesn't think your daughters symptoms are normal? What is his theory of the cause of her problems? If nobody else has any other ideas, then what harm is a few month trial? If it doesn't help, then you'll know to look elsewhere for the cause.

[Misty]

It sounds like a GFCF trial is in order, even if your husband thinks you're nuts. Surely he doesn't think your daughters symptoms are normal? What is his theory of the cause of her problems? If nobody else has any other ideas, then what harm is a few month trial? If it doesn't help, then you'll know to look elsewhere for the cause.

 

:iagree:

[mommymilkies]

Well, would you be inclined to eat if much of what you ate made you sick? Chronic diarrhea and being underweight are the "classic" symptoms of celiac disease. Also, celiac is highly linked to autoimmune diseases, which you said run in the family.

 

Is your daughter stubborn about everything, or just eating? Your first post almost makes it sound like cooking being convenient is more important to you than your daughter's health. I'm sure that isn't true, or you wouldn't be asking all of us for help. :001_smile:

 

Please remember that your daughter isn't your brother. She sounds like a little girl who's body is sick and needs to be fixed.

 

This is kinda rude. I never said cooking conveniently is more important than her health! I've had my house on elim diets for most of the last 7 years. I cook everything from scratch specifically for my children. This child will ONLY eat sugar. ONLY. That is not me wanting to not cook something extra for convenience-I will not serve it *because of her health*. So please read the posts before making that insinuation.

 

I have been trying to find a Celiac link in our family. Not because I want it. Definitely not. I have an abnormal love of all things wheat. :lol: But because of the symptoms in my family. But it's hard after so many blood tests and different doctor visits to convince my husband of it. One of the reasons we failed GAPS is because he went out and bought a bunch of bread and stuff when I was trying to cut it out. He wants to think her problems are all just sugar. I think yesterday he was convinced it was dairy (again) after her rash and GI problems. But convincing a doctor for testing to convince dh to stop bringing gluten in is a problem. I do have the 3 & 6 year olds and myself dairy and soy free right now. Dh is not willing, and my oldest dd is a vegetarian and not willing to cut out dairy. So I am trying. The gluten is the hard part-as anyone who has had to go gluten free will know. I have done it successfully only once in the past and it showed no change in baby's symptoms, so it came back in. But it's in everything and you pretty much have to replace everything in your kitchen from what I've been told. And I just don't have that kind of money or help until I have lab results.

Edited September 12, 2011 by mommymilkies

[JumpyTheFrog]

This is kinda rude. I never said cooking conveniently is more important than her health! I've had my house on elim diets for most of the last 7 years. I cook everything from scratch specifically for my children. This child will ONLY eat sugar. ONLY. That is not me wanting to not cook something extra for convenience-I will not serve it *because of her health*. So please read the posts before making that insinuation.

 

I know you didn't say that her health less important than what you cook. I said that it almost "comes across" that way but that I'm sure it isn't true, or you wouldn't be asking for advice. Also, your original post didn't indicate that you'd spent years trying elimination diets with your family.

 

Please remember, there are people out there that will "try an elimination diet" for just two or three days and when it doesn't work, they give up. They didn't even try long enough to learn where all the hidden gluten is. Originally, your post didn't contain enough information for me to tell if you are one of these people or not. Now that I have more details, I can see that you don't fall into this category. Please forgive me for offending you.

[JumpyTheFrog]

 

Well, I know some people have to keep strict GF kitchens, but I'm not sure if it's necessary for everyone. My husband will cook a regular pizza in the oven. If I cook a GF pizza, I just use a cookie sheet. I'll cut the GF pizza first with the cookie cutter and then he can use it on his.

 

Now stoneware probably shouldn't be shared. But metal cookie sheets and stuff are probably fine. The hardest contamination issue might be avoiding getti g crumbs in the peanut butter or mayo. That could be solved by having separate jars, or never double dipping with the knife.

 

Are there any specific cross contamination issues you need ideas for?

[mommymilkies]

Well, I know some people have to keep strict GF kitchens, but I'm not sure if it's necessary for everyone. My husband will cook a regular pizza in the oven. If I cook a GF pizza, I just use a cookie sheet. I'll cut the GF pizza first with the cookie cutter and then he can use it on his.

 

Now stoneware probably shouldn't be shared. But metal cookie sheets and stuff are probably fine. The hardest contamination issue might be avoiding getti g crumbs in the peanut butter or mayo. That could be solved by having separate jars, or never double dipping with the knife.

 

Are there any specific cross contamination issues you need ideas for?

 

No, I was just told by my OB (She has Celiacs, and I talked to her during my annual about dd when her test results weren't in yet) that I needed to get rid of everything, decontaminate my dishwasher, oven, everything like we had the plague. I would have to buy all new cutting boards, knives, plates, everything or else it wasn't even worth trying. That's a little disheartening!!!

[mommymilkies]

I know you didn't say that her health less important than what you cook. I said that it almost "comes across" that way but that I'm sure it isn't true, or you wouldn't be asking for advice. Also, your original post didn't indicate that you'd spent years trying elimination diets with your family.

 

Please remember, there are people out there that will "try an elimination diet" for just two or three days and when it doesn't work, they give up. They didn't even try long enough to learn where all the hidden gluten is. Originally, your post didn't contain enough information for me to tell if you are one of these people or not. Now that I have more details, I can see that you don't fall into this category. Please forgive me for offending you.

 

Sorry for getting angry. It's already been a long day and I'm exhausted after yesterday's debacle. Not to mention the financial strain this month from going GAPS (and then failing and having to grocery shop again). I am just so desperate to figure this all out and everyone I know IRL has conflicting advice or thinks we should just ride it out. Dh is diabetic, so I am really not going to just sit and watch, kwim?

[JumpyTheFrog]

It's already been a long day and I'm exhausted after yesterday's debacle. Not to mention the financial strain this month from going GAPS

 

I understand. A few people have suggested I try GAPS for myself, but it makes being GFCF look easy!

 

While a GF kitchen might be necessary for someone with Celiac disease, I wonder if it is always necessary for someone that may be gluten intolerant for other reasons. I still showed improvement without my mom keeping a GF kitchen, and so did my brother.

 

There's a saying that may apply here: "Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good." It sounds like you believe the entire family and kitchen must be GF for your daughter to make any improvement. If gluten isn't the problem, then a GF kitchen won't help. If gluten is a problem, than a GF diet, without a GF kitchen, may be enough to show improvement. Then, if it seems like it's helping, maybe you change your kitchen at that point to GF.

 

Do you feel like your daughter's doctors are taking the problem seriously? Do you feel like they've run out of ideas?

[mommymilkies]

At this point, it feels like they don't care!

 

I agree with you. But I read so much about people saying that even being in the room with wheat negates months of progress with Celiacs. So I would like to test first rather than cut out most of our diet for months and stress myself that much for no reason. ;)

[Bang!Zoom!]

I'm old.

I'm from a generation where kids ate what was put in front of them or went hungry.

That sounds cruel by today's standards.

But, hunger is a great motivator to eat.

Serve a meal, leave it out for a reasonable amount of time (an hour?), put all food away, DO NOT SERVE more food until the next meal time.

Make an effort to serve something the child likes often.

I'll probably get slammed for posting this.

 

That's the way it was done in our house.