How did YOU get obedience?

[Colleen]

Amen, my friend. Disturbing is putting it mildly.

 

Missed you!

 

Ricola. :)

Ricola!!!! It's been a long while, friend. I'm virtually never here now and thought you were long gone, too. Got your PM and will respond later when I have more time (read: less activity in the immediate vicinity!:D).

 

To me these are seperate thing. Wanting one's chldren to do what one says either because of trust or because of fear is wanting obedience. It is just two different ways of achieving obedience.

 

The other is raising thinking people. One does not necessarily negate the other.

You're right. Obedience and critical thinking are not mutually exclusive.

 

I don't think you'll find any parents here looking to raise their children to follow blindly or to be blindly cheerfully obedient.

I can't agree, based on this thread.

 

I think there's a significant difference between a polite response (which is expected here) and expecting a child to be happy as they pick up their toys.

Right.

 

Why would one expect them not to be happy to do their part to keep the household running smoothly?

 

People, children and adults, learn pretty quickly that the way they approach a task (the attitude toward it) makes the task more or less pleasant. Why go about it with a bad attitude? Why cultivate bad attitude?

Surely you aren't always "happy" to do your part in keeping a household running smoothly. Surely you don't always feel cheerful as you clean the toilet (or what have you). Now, that doesn't mean you b*tch and moan and "cultivate a bad attitude". It's possible to be polite, to be respectful, to get the job done, despite a lack of enthusiasm for said job. We can ask for, hope for, and expect politeness on the part of our children, but we can't demand that they ARE cheerful. (And vice versa.)

[Parrothead]

I can't agree, based on this thread.

Well, you may have a point there. ;)

 

 

Surely you aren't always "happy" to do your part in keeping a household running smoothly. Surely you don't always feel cheerful as you clean the toilet (or what have you). Now, that doesn't mean you b*tch and moan and "cultivate a bad attitude". It's possible to be polite, to be respectful, to get the job done, despite a lack of enthusiasm for said job. We can ask for, hope for, and expect politeness on the part of our children, but we can't demand that they ARE cheerful. (And vice versa.)

No, I can honestly say I'm not always happy to do chores. But I'm the only one who can control my attitude about how I go about those chores.

 

No, I can't demand specific emotions from anyone. But I can enforce a no whining rule. I did work very very had for years and years to develop a peaceful household where we are happy to do what we can for each other. I still work to maintain the peacefulness.

 

Maybe it is just my family's dynamic. None of us like confrontation. While dh and I have our issues, the three of us do prefer to be helpful and happy and peaceful than contentious and cranky. Even when it comes to doing chores.

[LaxMom]

I'm not confrontation avoidant, but I think going about tasks joyfully is something worth learning, even if just for inner harmony.

 

And, to that end, I try to help my children learn how to do so. *I* can't control how they feel, but I can help them learn how to control it. ;)

 

Not shockingly, I agree with Chucki that obedience and critical thinking are not mutually exclusive. I obey laws. They do not have to be justified to me in order for me to do so. If I think a law is unjust, I decide how is the best way to approach it - ie with my vote, defiance, etc - which takes critical thinking.

[Guest submarines]

I'll pipe in. I'm NOT saying I agree with OP's positions (I haven't read all her posts, but a goodly number of them), but I do have experience on this subject.

 

My mother was overly permissive - it was her pendulum swing from her overly controlling mother. I wished my mother would have cared enough about us to have said a frim "no" when it was needed. To give reasons "why", and NOT "because I said so". (channeling her controllling mother). Her permissiveness convyed a sense of not really caring about her children, and that she just wanted us to not bother her so she could do what she wanted.

 

Children lack experience parents are supposed to be able to provide through guidance, but if a parent doesn't care enough to guide, the child is left with trial and error. Hopefully, none of the errors will be so bad they can't recover. I also believe my mother spent her entire life in teenage rebellion to her mother. even when I was a teenager, I often felt I was the parent. I deeply resented that - I wanted to have a parent. (my father was deceased.)

 

but as the child of an overly controlling and emotionally/mentally abusive mother who demanded obedience, my mother was unable to stand up for herself, and was afraid to try anything for fear of failure. As a child of an overly permissive mother, I had to learn how to balance it all with my own children. (and I don't think I'm alone in the precarious balance, because it seems just when you think you've got it figured out, the child changes the rules and you have to come up with a new plan. :tongue_smilie:)

 

1dd's best friend used to be freaked out coming here because she said it was a house full of alpha's and we intimidated her to death. :) While I wanted my children to be civilized, nice, and polite individuals (they are), I also wanted them to be able to stand up for what they believed, what was right, etc. AND to think for themselves *why* they believe the things they do. They think for themselves and they do what's right because that is what they want to do. Really, I want to work myself out of a job, and not run my children's life until the day I die.

 

This makes sense. A parent can be permissive because they don't know how to be firm or don't want to, out of fear. Barbara Colorosso defines such parenting as jellyfish parenting (as opposed to the brick wall parenting). The parenting one should strive for is somewhere in between.

 

At least in theory, I'm on the right track, and my instinct is not in being a jelly fish. Other than that, I try my best. You are right, the moment you think you figure it out, the moment it gets easier, the child changes, and it the process starts again.

 

We also got the "you don't think that . . you don't mean that . . you don't feel that . . etc . . " from my overly controlling grandmother. yeah granny, I DO mean that, think that, feel that!!! and who are you to tell ME what *I* feel??? chlidren's feelings are just as real as an adults. When my kids said they "don't want to . . .", my response was always fine you don't have to want to, just do it. I was determined to treat my children with the respect my sibs and I were not treated with - and consequently, my children treat each other and their parents with respect. and are just nice people.

 

This was my mother, exactly. It is confusing for a child to hear their feelings and thoughts to be obliterated, over and over again. I think a child has two options, really. To identify with the mother and give up his or her thoughts and feelings, or to detach herself from the mother, so that not to be affected by this control. My mother did the former with her mother, and was shocked and dismayed that I did the latter. Her control was oppressive, but didn't have the effect that she expected.

[Parrothead]

But you can't force them to feel a certain way.

No, I can't.

 

Everyone has bad days. Everyone has things they don't want to do.

Sure they do.

 

 

Everyone goes through hormonal changes, lack of sleep, sickness, and various other things that can make even a simple task be an exercise in frustration.

And why would you force someone to do something when they are feeling crappy? Why make a kid go clean his room when he is lacking sleep or sick? Who does that? Why purposely frustrate both yourself and your child? Seems it would be obvious that normalcy doesn't occur on non-normal days.

 

I believe you can teach a child how to deal with their emotions while at the same time allowing them to own how they feel.

Sure, I do too. This actually makes life more pleasant all around.

 

Fine, a kid doesn't feel like picking up his bathroom. Which is better, teaching him to pretend to be happy and ignore how he really feels or teaching him how to cope with being upset that he has to stop play and do the chore?

Why not teach him from very early on that picking up the bathroom is no big deal. Make it fun and make it an expectation from the time they are tiny that the clothes go in the hamper, towels get folded and hung, the water gets emptied from the tub. It becomes second nature. Then what chores are left?

 

That is what make more sense to me than to let him leave the clothes and wet towel on the floor and the tub full of water and go off and get involved with something that will have to be inturrupted and disturb the peace of the household to go back upstairs with an attitude because he now has to go tidy up the bathroom.

 

To ignore how a a person feels is teaching them to lie and teaching them that they are too insignificant to matter or that they're only worth liking when they act exactly how you want them to.

Who said anything about ignoring how a person feels? I'd never teach my kid to lie. Lying is abhorrent to me. How dare you imply that I've done any of the things in your last paragraph because I've raised my child differently than you. How dare you imply that I only like my child when she acts exactly how I want her to.

[Parrothead]

I'm not confrontation avoidant, but I think going about tasks joyfully is something worth learning, even if just for inner harmony.

 

And, to that end, I try to help my children learn how to do so. *I* can't control how they feel, but I can help them learn how to control it. ;)

 

Not shockingly, I agree with Chucki that obedience and critical thinking are not mutually exclusive. I obey laws. They do not have to be justified to me in order for me to do so. If I think a law is unjust, I decide how is the best way to approach it - ie with my vote, defiance, etc - which takes critical thinking.

Thank you.

[Ginevra]

I highly doubt the OP is attending to all this anymore, even if she/he was at first. OTOH, this thread may represent the highest percentage of incisive, brilliant posts of any I've witnessed. What more could anyone possibly want in sound advice on child-rearing? I can't imagine.

[Lily_Grace]

Who said anything about ignoring how a person feels? I'd never teach my kid to lie. Lying is abhorrent to me. How dare you imply that I've done any of the things in your last paragraph because I've raised my child differently than you. How dare you imply that I only like my child when she acts exactly how I want her to.

 

I think there was a lapse of reading comprehension on your part. I never insinuated anything about you in that post. I spoke from what I believe, that IF you ignore a person's feelings it is teaching him/her to lie. Not everyone is cheerful all the time, no matter how you have qualified the "if then" statements in your post. Fact is, everyone has off days, everyone has bad days, and they are a part of life. There is no example that you could give that would erase that fact and keep up the pretense of perfect life. Sure, children should be taught to do chores immediately. But they also slip up, or do the chore poorly and have to go back. If they were perfect we'd have no need to teach.

 

Please do not imply that I have said more than I have as you did in your previous post. It makes for a very short, rude conversation when one attempts to know the thoughts of all parties involved.

[gardenmom5]

I highly doubt the OP is attending to all this anymore, even if she/he was at first. OTOH, this thread may represent the highest percentage of incisive, brilliant posts of any I've witnessed. What more could anyone possibly want in sound advice on child-rearing? I can't imagine.

 

well, you know, we weren't giving our methods of how we make our children blindly, and cheerfully obey. I guess we're just overly permissive.;)

 

considering the similarity to recent threads, I can't help wondering if they are related.

[gardenmom5]

 

This was my mother, exactly. It is confusing for a child to hear their feelings and thoughts to be obliterated, over and over again. I think a child has two options, really. To identify with the mother and give up his or her thoughts and feelings, or to detach herself from the mother, so that not to be affected by this control. My mother did the former with her mother, and was shocked and dismayed that I did the latter. Her control was oppressive, but didn't have the effect that she expected.

 

the other thing about my grandmother's controlling/dictatorial nature was her taking credit for anything good in our lives - how brilliant *she* was. anything that went bad - we were condemned for not doing what *she* said. we could do 180 degree different from what she said, it worked, she took credit. we did EXACTLY what she said, it failed, she blamed us for not listening to *her*. It was *always* about her and her ego. Frankly, I consider her to have been evil - satan always wants to control people to feed his ego.

 

I was 13 when I first started to notice this, and I emotionally detached/stepped back from my grandmother (my cowed mother had trained us to be very deferential. sickeningly so.) and just watched how she interacted with others. I never respected her opinion again, and in fact my opinion of her just continued to deteriorate over the years the more I saw of what kind of person she was. I've been able to step back again and examine where some of her warped thinking came from. I can feel sorry for her early life, but also hold her accountable.

[SKL]

I totally agree with the ideal of having a good attitude toward obedience and helpfulness and "we're all in this together"ness. It's not impossible and there's certainly nothing wrong with a child taking pride in meeting his responsibilities. I think reality is going to depend on both the parents' behavior and the child's personality. Some people just want to feel picked on.

 

But this does give me a chuckle, because lately, if I ask my 4yo daughters to do some little thing, even if the need is created by their own behavior, sometimes they will say "you're making me do all the work." LOL.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I highly doubt the OP is attending to all this anymore, even if she/he was at first. OTOH, this thread may represent the highest percentage of incisive, brilliant posts of any I've witnessed. What more could anyone possibly want in sound advice on child-rearing? I can't imagine.

 

 

:iagree: This thread has given me quite a lot to think about in regards to how I parent. I think I've been expecting different things out of my children than I want to see in them as adults...

 

And I KNOW I am guilty of expecting them to do things that I don't expect of myself.

 

Lots and lots to think about...

[Parrothead]

Never mind. Never mind. Never mind.

 

___

 

Again, I'm sucked into these arguments about my parenting and lifestyle by people who do not live the same way and who already have made up their mind about how it works and why it is so detrimental to the psychology of parents who do.

 

Ack! I'm done. This never gets me anywhere except deeply frustrated and left feeling as if I'm alone.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Parrothead

[Ginevra]

:iagree: This thread has given me quite a lot to think about in regards to how I parent. I think I've been expecting different things out of my children than I want to see in them as adults...

 

And I KNOW I am guilty of expecting them to do things that I don't expect of myself.

 

Lots and lots to think about...

 

Too true. For example, I am supposed to cook dinner for 30 people tomorrow, barring loss of electrical power from a hurricane. Wouldn't you imagine I was making the cupcakes right now as I know I should be? Or at least getting the spaghetti sauce made, since that is so easily done ahead? But nope. I'm not disciplining myself to do those things because I still have time. Plus, church already cancelled services tomorrow, so I know I have the morning that I didn't think I would have. So, lazily here I sit. :D

[LaxMom]

Thank you.

 

You're welcome.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I highly doubt the OP is attending to all this anymore, even if she/he was at first. OTOH, this thread may represent the highest percentage of incisive, brilliant posts of any I've witnessed. What more could anyone possibly want in sound advice on child-rearing? I can't imagine.

 

:iagree: It's one of those threads I want to print out and read again! I have learned a lot. I have also found validation for the way I have chosen to parent. I didn't realize how many people parent the way I do! There are so many incredible parents on this forum! (of course, that is a funny statement for me to make after I made the statement that so many here parent the way I do!!! I guess I'm saying if you parent like me - you're amazing! :lol:)

 

I really do like reading about the reasons you are choosing to parent the way you do. There are many things that I already do as a parent that I will now do with even more confidence....

 

And there are a few things I will change now that I have read this thread.....

 

 

Thanks! :D

[Teachin'Mine]

See, WTMers are no better than children at first-time obedience!

 

:lol:

 

:lol: We are sooooo much worse. :tongue_smilie:

 

I also don't see perfect, cheerful obedience as a goal - especially in hindsight.

[KungFuPanda]

Too true. For example, I am supposed to cook dinner for 30 people tomorrow, barring loss of electrical power from a hurricane. Wouldn't you imagine I was making the cupcakes right now as I know I should be? Or at least getting the spaghetti sauce made, since that is so easily done ahead? But nope. I'm not disciplining myself to do those things because I still have time. Plus, church already cancelled services tomorrow, so I know I have the morning that I didn't think I would have. So, lazily here I sit. :D

 

 

I call this mindset "Procrastineering." A good friend coined this term (I think. Maybe she just told me about it. We've used it for YEARS.) Anyway, procrastineering is an art and a science. It's when you put something off long enough that circumstances change and you don't have to do it at all. If your event gets cancelled, you have successfully procrastineered your way out of all that cooking :D It pays off often enough that I keep doing it and it REALLY annoys organized people.

[LaxMom]

:lol: We are sooooo much worse. :tongue_smilie:

 

I also don't see perfect' date=' cheerful obedience as a goal - especially in hindsight.[/quote']

 

I think perfection as a goal is enough to paralyze anyone... Doesn't matter what the genre is. Makes me wonder if the "un-parents" are really perfectionists who can't figure out how to get moving.

 

Nah. :lol:

[asta]

I'm sensing a death of the thread.

 

5, 4, 3, 2...

 

 

 

a

[LaxMom]

I'm sensing a death of the thread.

 

5, 4, 3, 2...

 

 

 

a

 

It's me, isn't it?

[Ginevra]

I call this mindset "Procrastineering." A good friend coined this term (I think. Maybe she just told me about it. We've used it for YEARS.) Anyway, procrastineering is an art and a science. It's when you put something off long enough that circumstances change and you don't have to do it at all. If your event gets cancelled, you have successfully procrastineered your way out of all that cooking :D It pays off often enough that I keep doing it and it REALLY annoys organized people.

 

It's so handy that it has a name. :D The funny thing is, I'm usually one of the organized people annoyed by such things. ;) But I'm in a funk today; truth is, I didn't even shower or shave (yet another thing I'm leaving for tomorrow).

[Teachin'Mine]

It's me, isn't it?

 

:lol:

 

... 1

[Ginevra]

:lol:

 

... 1

 

Yet, no kilts. Seems like we got cheated.

[CalicoKat]

Spanking never resulted in obedience

 

Obedience is important to me, but the QUALITY of the obedience and the nature of the relationship that elicits it are vitally important as well.

:iagree:

Having them work along with me to correct/fix it has also been huge. Talking through to understand their thought process has been enlightening. Making eye contact & taking the time.

[justamouse]

well, you know, we weren't giving our methods of how we make our children blindly, and cheerfully obey. I guess we're just overly permissive.;)

 

considering the similarity to recent threads, I can't help wondering if they are related.

 

I think they are and, I think it's a good thing. I hope there are more.

 

I read all of these books, and book on parenting, but I never got anything out of them because they were always so abstract to me. I needed concrete examples. That's what these threads can be to others. Saying that one thing in a different way can cause the flash of insight.

 

I'll pipe in. I'm NOT saying I agree with OP's positions (I haven't read all her posts, but a goodly number of them), but I do have experience on this subject.

 

My mother was overly permissive - it was her pendulum swing from her overly controlling mother. I wished my mother would have cared enough about us to have said a frim "no" when it was needed. To give reasons "why", and NOT "because I said so". (channeling her controllling mother). Her permissiveness convyed a sense of not really caring about her children, and that she just wanted us to not bother her so she could do what she wanted.

 

That was MY mom-BUT, my Nana was 'permissive', but my Mom was just too wrapped up in her own world to want to parent.

 

We also got the "you don't think that . . you don't mean that . . you don't feel that . . etc . . " from my overly controlling grandmother. yeah granny, I DO mean that, think that, feel that!!! and who are you to tell ME what *I* feel??? chlidren's feelings are just as real as an adults. When my kids said they "don't want to . . .", my response was always fine you don't have to want to, just do it. I was determined to treat my children with the respect my sibs and I were not treated with - and consequently, my children treat each other and their parents with respect. and are just nice people.

 

 

That was my mother, totally. Always telling me how I felt, when I would tell her REALLY how I felt.

 

"Don't pat me on the head and say 'good girl'. I hate that. It makes me feel like a dog."

 

"No it doesn't"

 

:confused::glare::confused:

[tricia]

We prefer not to spank. But with a large family such as ours we need to have a few tricks up our sleeves!! What we have found to be key in obedience is to work to encourage them to give us their hearts. Easier said than done but it has worked well for us. We want our children to want NOT to be disobedient. From their hearts. We want them to get to the point where they are their own disciplinarians rather than us the parents. And if they have given you their hearts then chances are when they mess up they will feel so bad that that in itself is enough punishment. I believe as parents, and as children of our Heavenly Father that that is where we all should eventually strive for. Hope this makes sense!!:001_smile:

[Laura in CA]

I call this mindset "Procrastineering." A good friend coined this term (I think. Maybe she just told me about it. We've used it for YEARS.) Anyway, procrastineering is an art and a science. It's when you put something off long enough that circumstances change and you don't have to do it at all. If your event gets cancelled, you have successfully procrastineered your way out of all that cooking :D It pays off often enough that I keep doing it and it REALLY annoys organized people.

 

Haha, I LOVE that term! My husband is a big proponent, and now we have a name for it! :D

 

In grad school, when we were poor as church mice, the driver's side window of our very old, junky second-hand car was broken (vandalism). My husband covered the space between the door and car roof with Saran wrap and duct tape and blithely drove around for months like that (this was New Jersey in the summer). Eventually the car just died one day, beyond repair, and we'd saved several hundred dollars LOL. We always point to that non-action as a wise decision :D

[jbemom]

 

I hug them and kiss them all the time, I tell them I love them, I play with them, I tease them, I adore them, I love spending time with them. They are precious, and I show them in every way possible.

 

THAT is why they are obedient. And, they CANNOT do more at their age than is allowable. You cannot request that they do things that they have not been taught, or is beyond their maturity.

 

:iagree: I tried the whole spanking with my oldest. Dismal failure. I even occasionally spanked my youngest....and felt horrible and cried right along with her. What has changed...what has worked for us is she gets my time, my attention, unconditional love, and knowing that she is a gift from God. This has created an atmosphere where she feels safe and secure and loved and she doesn't feel the need to act out all the time. Again, she is NOT perfect. We still have some rough days (we had one just the other day) but discipline NEVER requires physical force. It's enough for her to know her mommy is upset with her. I truly wish I had used this approach with my oldest....we might have some relationship today if I had.

[Rosie_0801]

One of the things that really bothered me in this was not the idea of obedience - which, as I said above, I do question, but I can completely understand - but the idea of cheerful obedience. I don't tolerate whining from my kids. However, to expect them to obey and be happy about it robs them not only of their own critical thinking (as some people are saying in the thread) but of their own right to their emotions, something I have even more trouble with.

 

Ha, yeah. And do you know how long it takes to iron out that damage?

 

I don't. I'm 31 and still working on it. It has created so much negativity in my character. Pathetic, perhaps, but it is what it is and we have to keep working.

 

I think, to be happy and good, kids need to trust that their parents are on their side.

 

I might argue with my hubby, I might tell him he needs to pull his socks up on some issue. He might tell me he gets the point, now for goodness sakes go away and calm down; but we both know we are on the same team and are working, however clumsily, towards the same goals. (Marital harmony being one of them. :rolleyes:)

 

I think kids can handle our moods, our clumsiness, our efforts at training their characters if they believe we think they are fundamentally a good sort of person to be. And yeah, of course some kids make it easier than others.

 

Rosie, why did it make you feel like your mom didn't like you? :confused: This makes me so sad! I do try to encourage my kids to have a good attitude. I think sometimes kids use big pouts, grumpy attitudes, etc to "punish" the parents for asking them to do something they don't want to do. I do want my kids to guard their attitudes and not just their behaviors. But I DON'T want them to think I don't like them!!! Could you explain more? I'm concerned and curious!

 

Oh, my mum's not a bad old stick. :) She did as well as a mentally ill woman who was a child of an authoritarian father could be. When I had my eldest, she told me she wished she had parented us as she wanted to, instead of how she thought she should. Groovy huh? A grown woman, who had married, moved away and become a mother still wasn't capable of acting independently and was still doing as she thought undefined somebodies thought she should.

 

I don't think you are emotionally damaging your children by disallowing stinky attitudes! Who wants to see a great big pout? You are just as valid a person as they are. But my mother would follow me to my room to tell me off for sulking (it WAS sulking whether I was or not,) then tell me off for the poker face I put on. There's no winning there! When the only correct response to a reprimand is to behave as though you genuinely feel like all your Christmases have come at once, the system is damaging.

 

Of course it is your job to train your children to manage their emotions. It sure doesn't come naturally. But they have to be allowed to have them and there has to be appropriate ways of expressing them. When they are older, they can be trained to use appropriate words, but until they are capable of that, I think a parent needs to turn a blind eye to a bit of shoulder slumping, sighing and going off to sulk in the bedroom. Or something, anyway.

 

My kids are too little and not particularly verbal yet, but I think Asta has it right when she says to talk, talk and talk to them. I know I handled character training better on the rare occasions when my mother was able to talk. We aren't terribly surprised when our kids don't learn academics out of context and it seems to be the same with character training. Kids don't have the perspective adults do, so it's no wonder that without context I heard "you are a bad sort of person to be and you should be someone else" when Mum probably meant "There's a social game to be played. You may not like it, but life is more comfortable when you understand how to play, and that's what we are working towards. You can choose when to play and when not to when you understand the rules. It's my job to ensure you master them so you will be capable of choosing."

 

To progress in that endeavor, a system must be in place to "debrief" and talk the episode through. We have those in our marriages and I don't know how we'd learn to negotiate difficulties between parents and kids if we didn't go through the same process with them.

 

The less than funny part of all this is now my mother puts up with crap from my sister that makes my brother and I want to give them both a good shake. Why? Because she wants us to like her and has no bargaining power.

 

Why would one expect them not to be happy to do their part to keep the household running smoothly?

 

I think that comes with age. I remember being distinctly unhappy about having to do household chores, and not just because I was the oldest so copped more of them, but eventually I was doing them of my own accord. I could still think of more enjoyable things to do, but it became important to me that we didn't all run out of clean underwear!

 

Rosie

Edited August 28, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[teachmejoy]

Read Parenting with Grace. Read the preview.

 

You ahve to have more loving relationship with them, which IS discipline, and very little punishment.

 

My kids-they are amazing. Even today, what they did for me and with me, without a gripe or frown.

 

Lead and unload dishwasher (twice), put all their clothes away, clean up their rooms (pick up) the boys dumped a garbage can full of weeds, and brought all of the branches I pruned to the weed pile. They did their required school work for the day. Walked the dog endless times. Fed the animals and took care of them. AND they tolerated their older sister school shopping. :D

 

I hug them and kiss them all the time, I tell them I love them, I play with them, I tease them, I adore them, I love spending time with them. They are precious, and I show them in every way possible.

 

THAT is why they are obedient. And, they CANNOT do more at their age than is allowable. You cannot request that they do things that they have not been taught, or is beyond their maturity.

 

 

Oh my! I almost cried when I read this! I want this sooo bad in my home. I want to be exactly like you've described, but I have to say that the "cares of this world" have made me hard and I tend to get way too uptight and upset. If I don't fuss and yell, I tend to speak harshly when I'm disappointed with my children.

 

Is the book that you mentioned strictly for Catholic families, or would it benefit a protestant as well?

 

Could you give some specific ideas on how I could achieve the level of relationship when I'm felling so drained and uptight? How do you respond when they do something wrong and you want to get upset?

 

:bigear:

[Sevilla]

Of course it is your job to train your children to manage their emotions. It sure doesn't come naturally. But they have to be allowed to have them and there has to be appropriate ways of expressing them.

Best book I have ever found for tackling this issue (in adults and kids): Dealing With Disappointment: Helping Kids Cope When Things Don't Go Their Way by Elizabeth Crary I think this is in my Top 10 Parenting Books of All Time (which is a hard standard to break into). The author tackles all sorts of parental responses to kids' feelings (ranging from 'Stuff that frown and turn it into a smile PRONTO!' to "Oh no! You're sad and that means Mommy has make you feel better at all costs!") plus healthier responses in between - teaching parents how to help their kids be responsible for their own emotions instead of it being something the parent has to control. Reading it was actually quite helpful to me as an adult as well, and she has pages of different strategies for helping a person calm down and regroup based on all different personality styles too. My default 'calm down' mechanism is reading a book - I've done that since I was a child. Another person's might be to knead bread dough, anothers to draw, another's to do some physical labor or exercise, etc... Plenty of options you can teach your kids to customize.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Sevilla

[justamouse]

:iagree: I tried the whole spanking with my oldest. Dismal failure. I even occasionally spanked my youngest....and felt horrible and cried right along with her. What has changed...what has worked for us is she gets my time, my attention, unconditional love, and knowing that she is a gift from God. This has created an atmosphere where she feels safe and secure and loved and she doesn't feel the need to act out all the time. Again, she is NOT perfect. We still have some rough days (we had one just the other day) but discipline NEVER requires physical force. It's enough for her to know her mommy is upset with her. I truly wish I had used this approach with my oldest....we might have some relationship today if I had.

:grouphug: I feel the same way.

[WishboneDawn]

Never mind. Never mind. Never mind.

 

___

 

Again, I'm sucked into these arguments about my parenting and lifestyle by people who do not live the same way and who already have made up their mind about how it works and why it is so detrimental to the psychology of parents who do.

 

Ack! I'm done. This never gets me anywhere except deeply frustrated and left feeling as if I'm alone.

 

:grouphug: I get you. I think people are starting to respond to what they think people have said rather then what they've said. I think that's happened in how people are responding the OP as well.

[twoforjoy]

Honestly, I think a lot of it is temperament.

 

I was spanked twice, when I was two. My sister was never spanked. We were both obedient kids. Why? I think it's just that we are both natural people-pleasers. That's how we're wired. I can only speak of my own personality with any confidence, but I was an extremely compliant child, because I never, ever wanted anybody to be mad at me. It had nothing to do with fear of punishment; I was never scared of getting hit or anything. I just never wanted people to be disappointed in me or mad at me, because my sense of who I was was so wrapped up in getting approval from others (and still is, to some extent).

 

I'm sure it made me a really easy kid, but there's a lot of downsides to it. I really had no sense of who I was, other than being a "good" student and a "good" daughter and a "good" girl, for a long time. I would often resort to dishonesty or manipulation or passive-aggressiveness to get my way without having to actually assert myself, so that nobody would think I wasn't being a nice girl. I had relationships I shouldn't have because I wanted affirmation. And, I found that when affirmation was withdrawn--when I no longer had teachers telling me how smart I was and my parents telling me how good I was and people patting me on the head and telling me what a nice girl I was, because I was an adult--I really had no idea how to function.

 

I still fall into this. I avoid confrontation that I should have so that nobody will be mad at me. I take on more than I should so that I can please everybody, and then can't do it all and come up with excuses (if not outright lies) as to why I didn't, so that nobody is disappointed in me. I have a lot of trouble doing things for their own sake, rather than for the good things they'll get other people to think of me.

 

My son doesn't have that. He's not obedient, most of the time (and spanking never helped that, and made it worse if anything). But, he's also not somebody who relies on other people for affirmation, or who lies to make himself look better, or who puts on a show of compliance while doing what he wants in secret. It's all right out there with him. He doesn't always do what I want, but when it matters, he does what's right, even if it means a friend being mad at him. It makes him a pain in the butt to parent, but I have a feeling he'll avoid a lot of the issues I had as an older child and teen because he isn't a people-pleaser.

 

Or, to put it more succinctly, I think obedience, while it certainly makes life easier as a parent, is overrated. A lot of what looks like "obedience" is, I think, a compliance born out of a desire to get certain responses from others, rather than a genuine desire to serve others or to do the right thing.

[justamouse]

Oh my! I almost cried when I read this! I want this sooo bad in my home. I want to be exactly like you've described, but I have to say that the "cares of this world" have made me hard and I tend to get way too uptight and upset. If I don't fuss and yell, I tend to speak harshly when I'm disappointed with my children.

 

Is the book that you mentioned strictly for Catholic families, or would it benefit a protestant as well?

 

Could you give some specific ideas on how I could achieve the level of relationship when I'm felling so drained and uptight? How do you respond when they do something wrong and you want to get upset?

 

:bigear:

 

Thinking outloud. Hmmm. It WOULD work for Protestant, because the tools work, BUT you would have to read it understanding that it is highly sacramental. The premise -at it's foundation- is on writings from the RCC, and Pope John's Humnae Vitae, about the sacredness of life, and what we are entrusted with as parents. It's about pro-donative parenting, real self sacrificing stuff.

 

Everyone's life is so different and I don't know what is pushing at you in yours, so I can only share what was hard in mine and hope that something connects.

 

It was a blessing we had so many children. Not in that children, themselves, are a blessing, but that because we were so overwhelmed, I had to take some drastic measures to make things work for us. I had to say no. Even to my mother, master manipulator. No we couldn't go everywhere, no I couldn't join, no parties, no extra curricular stuff. I had three babies almost in the span of one year-three carseats, three potty trainers-it was baptism by fire. I just couldn't DO anything. I had to wait until 11 pm when he got home from work so I could run out and food shop. Tiny house, 6 kids, three of them babies and I went NO WHERE. We were building our finances so we did NOTHING. Life was crappy. Dh had his own business and worked like a madman, and we started centering weekends around US. So that we could reconnect and find some sort of balance. So you have to prioritize. Shed everything that is pulling you in twenty different directions.

 

I have a mental checklist.

 

1. How bad is it.

2. Is there anything I can do about it?

3. Do what I can.

4. If there's nothing I can do about it, I do nothing and I REFUSE to keep picking it up and worrying it. There's nothing I can do about it. Getting upset makes me a pissy mommy, and no one likes a pissy mommy.

 

And though I said that stuff doesn't mean that nothing goes wrong. Two nights ago my MIL arrived at the house while I was at a class. Dh, who was exhausted after driving 6 hours to get her and working insane hours this week, decided to let the boys (12 and 8) open up the brand new framed airmattress. Well, they burned the motor out because they misread the directions. Was it thier fault? No. MIL didn't tell them to stop, Dh wasn't paying attention to what was going on. The kids didn't get yelled at, we got the foot pump and blew the thing up. :D

 

When I DO find I'm going to loose it, it's because the small two are picking at eachother and they've fallen into bickering. It happens when she is tired, or he thinks that her 'breathing' is unfair. So she needs to be separated and get to bed early, and he needs some special time with me because he's telling me as an 8 yo can that he is feeling neglected. That is MY fault-I've let her stay up too late and I've not spent special time with him. So I remedy that and the bickering stops. They will say they're sorry and I remind him how much she loves him. I tell her to be kind and tell them to be generous with each other. But if I talk and don't put her to bed earlier and spend time with him-none of the talking will matter and the bickering will start right back up!

 

That sounds like a bunch of nonsense I've typed out but I really don't know how to answer any other way. :grouphug:

 

The book is wonderful, though. Really good parenting tools. What I've realized reading through it is that I organically did what it says to do-not because I KNEW it would work, but that it was the only thing that worked for us at the time and I went with what worked. So that foundation was there, built from when they were infants, and though I raised my oldest the same way as an infant, I let other people push me, a teen mom, into a punitive parenting mold and that's when it started falling apart with him. Then Dd was born and she was SO circumspect that she listened to me yell at him and never did anything wrong-I'm not kidding when I say I never had to yell at her-ever-as a kid. No lesson is wasted on her. But she was the reason I started to change. I saw that a kid didn't need to be spanked to do right.

Edited August 28, 2011 by justamouse

[Rosie_0801]

Best book I have ever found for tackling this issue (in adults and kids): Dealing With Disappointment: Helping Kids Cope When Things Don't Go Their Way by Elizabeth Crary I think this is in my Top 10 Parenting Books of All Time (which is a hard standard to break into).

 

That's now on my wishlist, thanks! :)

 

Rosie

[WishboneDawn]

Oh my! I almost cried when I read this! I want this sooo bad in my home. I want to be exactly like you've described, but I have to say that the "cares of this world" have made me hard and I tend to get way too uptight and upset. If I don't fuss and yell, I tend to speak harshly when I'm disappointed with my children.

 

Is the book that you mentioned strictly for Catholic families, or would it benefit a protestant as well?

 

Could you give some specific ideas on how I could achieve the level of relationship when I'm felling so drained and uptight? How do you respond when they do something wrong and you want to get upset?

 

:bigear:

 

You might want to look at Kids Are Worth It! by Barabara Coloroso as well. It's a get book for putting a thoughtful foundation underneath your parenting.

[Ritsumei]

...I want my kids to be obedient. By this I mean I want them to do what I tell them, with a good attitude, the first time I ask. All the time.

 

Pro-spanking books that I've read focus on this. I have not seen other books that do--they tend to place their focus elsewhere. Which leads me to wonder...are there many paths to obedience? Or is spanking the only/most efficient way? So please tell me how you personally have achieved obedience.

 

...

 

I want helpful, personal advice from parents who have obedient children.

 

 

It's more that I don't believe children can be absolutely obedient.

 

 

I agree, complete obedience every time, just isn't going to happen. The little cuties are only human, after all! Which is not to say that we shouldn't ask for obedience. I just think it's reasonable to realize that they, like me, are imperfect but working on it. God's plan gives prominence to mercy as well as obedience, and I try to model my parenting on both of those characteristics. It seems to be working thus far.

 

My kids aren't perfect, but I yell STOP! they'll do it. They listen. There aren't power struggles in my house, because the kids know if I say something, they need to do it. But part of the key is that I don't ask things of them that I don't think young children can realistically do. I give reasons for what I ask. I'm consistent and logical. That has led to a trust in me and what I say by my kids. And, above all, I let them be human and apologize for mistakes.

 

Giving the "why" for the rules is something that my husband and I focus on too. Often, that means teaching scripture. Why don't we lie? Because God expects honesty from us, and these are some of the reasons He has given, as well as somethings we have learned from following this law. God expects us to work. These are some of the blessings we get from working. We discuss reasons for rules a lot.

 

One practical thing that I can suggest is using the scripture memory system. Anytime there is a problem that starts to become a consistent thing (lying comes to mind) I find a relevant verse and put it in there. We have a couple on honesty, a general "obey your parents" verse, and some others that have gone in there when there was some issue. I love it. We do our scripture boxes at bedtime, as part of the evening routine. I was just planning on memorizing when we started it, but it's turned into one of my "secret weapons" for parenting because it takes the teaching of correct behavior out of the heat of the moment. It takes a week or two for Monkey to memorize a scripture. In that time we discuss difficult vocabulary (we use the KJV), examples from our day when things went well, and sometimes when they didn't, and all sorts of things. Because it's part of the bedtime routine and we always do it (discussion as-needed only), he's very used to and receptive to this sort of teaching. Whereas, in the heat of the moment he's generally NOT receptive, and sometimes has a poor attitude. Not a high-impact time for teaching. But bedtime has worked beautifully! AND, if there are slip-ups down the road, I'll have him tell me his scripture before I turn him loose after a timeout, thus reminding him that the rule is not mine, but God's.

 

Consistency is also key: people do things because they are rewarding, and the most powerful reinforcement comes from the random intermittent reinforcement. And whenever they get away with something, it reinforces the behavior. If I take my kids to the store, where we have a no whining/begging rule, and they whine/beg, and I give in they are MUCH more likely to do it again. At the first instance of whining/begging, the odds of getting the treat go to zero. I've been known to put back treats that are already in the cart. My older son knows this, and while he does ask for what he wants (we specifically allow this), he doesn't beg; he knows that no means no. But if I were to ever give in to whining because it's easier, because I'm tired, because whatever, I've rewarded the behavior and can expect to see it again. Whining drives me crazy; I do well with ignoring it, but there are other areas where I cave from time to time. The closer to perfection I am able to get with my consistency, the more obedient my children are.

 

You ahve to have more loving relationship with them, which IS discipline, and very little punishment.

 

...

 

I hug them and kiss them all the time, I tell them I love them, I play with them, I tease them, I adore them, I love spending time with them. They are precious, and I show them in every way possible.

 

THAT is why they are obedient. And, they CANNOT do more at their age than is allowable. You cannot request that they do things that they have not been taught, or is beyond their maturity.

 

:iagree::iagree:We do affection too, very much as described here. It makes a world of difference. In fact, I specifically try to make sure that there is some sort of increase in love and affection immediately after discipline, which at our house is time-outs/loss of privileges. For a variety of reasons, we are non-spankers, though we were both raised in spanking houses. Part of it is that I don't trust myself not to cross the line. Discipline, by its nature, happens when the kids are being irritating. Sometimes I get angry. I can't say that I would never hit in anger (which is a HUGE rule at our house; DH & I are both black belts), and so I don't hit in discipline. But whatever the consequence, I think that making sure that there is some kind of love shown after, so that you child doesn't start to think of you as the enemy, is critically important.

 

Our culture is not big on giving positives, and especially not to children. Any positive reinforcement is often given guiltily, and described as a bribe. But what you're really doing when you reward good behavior is paying your children. Which is a good and reasonable thing to do! God "pays" us - with blessings - when we keep His commandments. Employers pay us - or we wouldn't do the work. Society pays us, with friendships and other pleasant interactions. It is OK for us to do this with our children. It's not a bribe until it's not earned - disobedience does not deserve a reward. To use the grocery store as an example again, the woman who says to her children, "If you don't be quiet you're not going to get any candy," but the kids are already tearing open the package, has bribed her children. She has rewarded poor behavior, and should expect to see it again. The woman who says, "If you are good in the store, which means no ____ and do ____, then I will buy you a candy bar," has payed her children. There is a world of difference between payment for a job well done and a bribe. One place I deliberately pay my children is if I have something that's important to me, but not to them. Haircuts come to mind. Monkey hates a haircut. We use a token system for TV/computer time: if he's got tokens, he can watch. So I give him an extra token for letting me cut his hair. I'm happy because he no longer looks like a rag-bag, he's happy because he gets 45 minutes of screen time.

 

The other thing that I do is that I try very hard to be as neutral as possible about giving out consequences. Flat, matter-of-fact tone of voice, and as little attention as possible. Some kids, particularly the more intense kids, will take any attention of any type, and getting upset means they have your attention, often your full and undivided attention, and they find that rewarding. So I try very hard to be as emotionally flat as possible when correcting misbehavior. I save the attention for when they're behaving correctly. Tantrum? My first response is to ignore it. I may even leave the room. If it isn't practical for me to leave, then I'll send (or take - mine are still small enough for that) him to his room, and invite him to come back as soon as the tantrum is over. I do not converse with a child on a timeout chair, except to remind them that ______ doesn't count toward their time. I actually require very short timeouts - usually less than 5 minutes - but if Monkey's in a very bad mood it can take him upwards of 20-30 minutes to do it, because noncompliant time doesn't count. It leaves control of how much extra time in his hands. We often go weeks without a timeout, at 4 years old, because his behavior is generally very obedient.

 

A friend of mine also pointed out that she always keeps tabs on tired/hungry/sick, because those are going to have a negative effect on behavior, so sometimes you can "discipline" by feeding the child lunch to short-circuit bad behavior, or require a nap or whatever. Kids with basic needs unmet are unpleasant to be around, so if we're having an unpleasant day I have learned to stop and ask myself if I lost track of time & lunch is late or something like that. And if I did, I suck it up some: that's MY fault. Obviously big stuff isn't excused, but general grumpiness, I may go a bit easier on.

 

Last of all, I say sorry when I loose it. I require him to own up to his mistakes; I can do no less.

 

Non-spaking books that I love:

Christlike Parenting

Transforming the Difficult Child: the Nurtured Heart Approach

Creative Correction

 

The first two, more than the 3rd, are key to my philosophy of parenting. But the 3rd has some great practical ideas for things to do besides spanking, which, as I said, is important to us for a variety of reasons.

[Ginevra]

I think the OP's name should be "epigone". :lurk5: Luckily, we are so awesome at entertaining ourselves, we don't even need continuing input from the original question. :D

[WishboneDawn]

I think the OP's name should be "epigone". :lurk5: Luckily, we are so awesome at entertaining ourselves, we don't even need continuing input from the original question. :D

 

I think she got some good leads on resources and books and stuff to think about. She got what she needed out of the thread for now.

[Joker]

Best book I have ever found for tackling this issue (in adults and kids): Dealing With Disappointment: Helping Kids Cope When Things Don't Go Their Way by Elizabeth Crary I think this is in my Top 10 Parenting Books of All Time (which is a hard standard to break into).

 

 

I just ordered this! I have one who suddenly has trouble dealing with the slightest critique. She develops a very bad, sullen attitude and I am starting to get so frustrated because it changes the mood of the entire household. This book wasn't too expensive so I just went ahead and ordered it. I hope it will help us both a bit.

[Ginevra]

I think she got some good leads on resources and books and stuff to think about. She got what she needed out of the thread for now.

 

This is quite the awesome thread. If there's a book to read, it's title is in here; great website links, too and honest-to-goodness parents explaining what they do. It's Excellent Parenting, wrapped up with a bow and a cookie. :D

[Ritsumei]

This is quite the awesome thread. If there's a book to read, it's title is in here; great website links, too and honest-to-goodness parents explaining what they do. It's Excellent Parenting, wrapped up with a bow and a cookie. :D

 

 

Niiice. I guess I'm off to read some of the posts I skipped. :D I know I can always use some pointers!

[justamouse]

Best book I have ever found for tackling this issue (in adults and kids): Dealing With Disappointment: Helping Kids Cope When Things Don't Go Their Way by Elizabeth Crary I think this is in my Top 10 Parenting Books of All Time (which is a hard standard to break into). The author tackles all sorts of parental responses to kids' feelings (ranging from 'Stuff that frown and turn it into a smile PRONTO!' to "Oh no! You're sad and that means Mommy has make you feel better at all costs!") plus healthier responses in between - teaching parents how to help their kids be responsible for their own emotions instead of it being something the parent has to control. Reading it was actually quite helpful to me as an adult as well, and she has pages of different strategies for helping a person calm down and regroup based on all different personality styles too. My default 'calm down' mechanism is reading a book - I've done that since I was a child. Another person's might be to knead bread dough, anothers to draw, another's to do some physical labor or exercise, etc... Plenty of options you can teach your kids to customize.

 

I've heard that's a great book-I'll ahve to read that one next.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Ha, yeah. And do you know how long it takes to iron out that damage?

 

I don't. I'm 31 and still working on it. It has created so much negativity in my character. Pathetic, perhaps, but it is what it is and we have to keep working.

 

I think, to be happy and good, kids need to trust that their parents are on their side.

 

I might argue with my hubby, I might tell him he needs to pull his socks up on some issue. He might tell me he gets the point, now for goodness sakes go away and calm down; but we both know we are on the same team and are working, however clumsily, towards the same goals. (Marital harmony being one of them. :rolleyes:)

 

I think kids can handle our moods, our clumsiness, our efforts at training their characters if they believe we think they are fundamentally a good sort of person to be. And yeah, of course some kids make it easier than others.

 

 

 

Oh, my mum's not a bad old stick. :) She did as well as a mentally ill woman who was a child of an authoritarian father could be. When I had my eldest, she told me she wished she had parented us as she wanted to, instead of how she thought she should. Groovy huh? A grown woman, who had married, moved away and become a mother still wasn't capable of acting independently and was still doing as she thought undefined somebodies thought she should.

 

I don't think you are emotionally damaging your children by disallowing stinky attitudes! Who wants to see a great big pout? You are just as valid a person as they are. But my mother would follow me to my room to tell me off for sulking (it WAS sulking whether I was or not,) then tell me off for the poker face I put on. There's no winning there! When the only correct response to a reprimand is to behave as though you genuinely feel like all your Christmases have come at once, the system is damaging.

 

Of course it is your job to train your children to manage their emotions. It sure doesn't come naturally. But they have to be allowed to have them and there has to be appropriate ways of expressing them. When they are older, they can be trained to use appropriate words, but until they are capable of that, I think a parent needs to turn a blind eye to a bit of shoulder slumping, sighing and going off to sulk in the bedroom. Or something, anyway.

 

My kids are too little and not particularly verbal yet, but I think Asta has it right when she says to talk, talk and talk to them. I know I handled character training better on the rare occasions when my mother was able to talk. We aren't terribly surprised when our kids don't learn academics out of context and it seems to be the same with character training. Kids don't have the perspective adults do, so it's no wonder that without context I heard "you are a bad sort of person to be and you should be someone else" when Mum probably meant "There's a social game to be played. You may not like it, but life is more comfortable when you understand how to play, and that's what we are working towards. You can choose when to play and when not to when you understand the rules. It's my job to ensure you master them so you will be capable of choosing."

 

To progress in that endeavor, a system must be in place to "debrief" and talk the episode through. We have those in our marriages and I don't know how we'd learn to negotiate difficulties between parents and kids if we didn't go through the same process with them.

 

The less than funny part of all this is now my mother puts up with crap from my sister that makes my brother and I want to give them both a good shake. Why? Because she wants us to like her and has no bargaining power.

 

 

 

I think that comes with age. I remember being distinctly unhappy about having to do household chores, and not just because I was the oldest so copped more of them, but eventually I was doing them of my own accord. I could still think of more enjoyable things to do, but it became important to me that we didn't all run out of clean underwear!

 

Rosie

 

Thanks to Rosie and Quill for their insights. I am going to work harder at being sure my kids know that they can have and express their emotions - *all* of them! We have a really good relationship, and I parent with the same focus on this relationship that others have described. My kids obey, not because I am good at discipline, but because we have a close relationship of trust and joy, and they WANT to please and honor me, just like they have seen me please and respect them.

 

But, I do fall in the "watch your attitude" and they elicite the fake smile category. I've never seen it until Rosie and Quill and others pointed it out. They give me the fake smile and I usually call them on it being fake. Then they laugh and I do too. But, now I will be more respectful and say that it is okay that they feel pouty. They still need to show respect, but I think that is a lesson that will serve them well into adulthood. How to feel pouty, but still show respect, and ultimately find the way to manage their own emotions. I will just be more careful in the future to be sure they know that I do not fault them for not feeling perfectly happy all the time.

 

Good insights! Thanks! :001_smile:

[myfatherslily]

I think the OP's name should be "epigone". :lurk5: Luckily, we are so awesome at entertaining ourselves, we don't even need continuing input from the original question. :D

 

Ooorrr... maybe she actually had something to do on a Saturday? Could that be a possibility?;) Although I'm here reading messages throughout the day most of the time, every once in awhile I actually leave my house and *gasp* don't even get a chance to turn the computer on ALL DAY. Crazy, I know.

 

Seriously, though, I think some of you are being a bit harsh on her. She asked for advice and ideas, so don't pick her apart for it. We're not all perfect, you know. :tongue_smilie: This has been a great thread and I enjoyed it very much.

[Colleen]

No, I can honestly say I'm not always happy to do chores. But I'm the only one who can control my attitude about how I go about those chores.

Exactly. You asked previously why others don't "expect" a child to be happy about contributing to the running of the household. Well, for the same reason I don't "expect" I'll always be happy. But when I'm less-than-happy, I'm responsible for my attitude, as my boys are responsible for theirs. So I agree with you.

 

No, I can't demand specific emotions from anyone. But I can enforce a no whining rule.

Agreed, again. (Although you'll likely find that the enforcement is more challenging and/or simply different in the years ahead.;))

 

Maybe it is just my family's dynamic. None of us like confrontation. While dh and I have our issues, the three of us do prefer to be helpful and happy and peaceful than contentious and cranky. Even when it comes to doing chores.

I think the vast majority of people, generally speaking, prefer to be happy and peaceful rather than contentious and cranky, so in that respect, you have plenty of company. One thing you should keep in mind, though, is that the greater the number of individuals in a household, there greater the number of relationships. More relational dynamics increases the potential for more challenges.

 

 

Never mind. Never mind. Never mind.

 

___

 

Again, I'm sucked into these arguments about my parenting and lifestyle by people who do not live the same way and who already have made up their mind about how it works and why it is so detrimental to the psychology of parents who do.

 

Ack! I'm done. This never gets me anywhere except deeply frustrated and left feeling as if I'm alone.

I'm sorry you feel this way, and don't see any cause for your frustration. No one is arguing with you about your parenting or your lifestyle. Perhaps the fact that you don't like confrontation, as you mentioned above, leads you to react defensively when no offense was intended? Just a thought.

 

Btw, I can see Canada from my house, too ~ but IIRC you & I are viewing different provinces.:)

[Rosie_0801]

Just because I haven't waffled enough on this thread. :rolleyes:

 

Those of you with older kids might consider leaving your parenting books lying around. I used to read the Childcraft Guide for Parents to try and gain insight. That particular book was mostly about childhood diseases, so didn't enlighten me a great deal, but it was worth trying. :lol:

 

Rosie

[Sevilla]

Just because I haven't waffled enough on this thread. :rolleyes:

 

Those of you with older kids might consider leaving your parenting books lying around. I used to read the Childcraft Guide for Parents to try and gain insight. That particular book was mostly about childhood diseases, so didn't enlighten me a great deal, but it was worth trying. :lol:

 

Rosie

Dangerous advice ;). As a middle schooler I used to read my parents' copy of Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child" to get ideas for how to be more rebellious. :lol: