S/O AWANA - kids pressured into "salvation"

[TXBeth]

CC - I have noticed something since my kids started AWANA last year that I never noticed when I attended as a kid (maybe I just tuned it out?). Every week, there is an "opportunity" (with a bit of pressure) for kids to accept Christ. I think it is great that they present the gospel message, but I am a bit torn about this policy.

 

If every week from the time he turns 3, DS "accepts Christ" so he can "go wheeee up to Heaven without sin getting in the way and making him go splat," doesn't that make it hard to know when he really gets it, when he really makes the decision to follow Christ?

 

Do the leaders do this at your AWANA clubs? Does it bother you? I was a little bothered by them taking time at the end of every week in Sparks (K-2) to do this, but the Cubbies thing really bothered me. There was one mom who was a helper, and she told the leader that her kid loved rockets, so he should explain it as going on a rocketship way up to Heaven. The kid says yes, he wants to do it, he repeats the prayer, hooray! Mom is so happy she has tears in her eyes. Do these people really think this kid who can barely speak in complete sentences has understood that he is a sinner and has trusted Christ for salvation?

 

Am I the only one who doesn't particularly want my child to be saved as young as possible? I'd rather they truly understand so it is a meaningful decision for them. I led my daughter through the process only when I could tell she really understood and she had been asking about it for weeks. She was young (5), but I'm her mom and I could tell she was really ready. Even so I'm a little sad that she probably won't have a permanent memory of that moment.

 

I love AWANA for the Bible memory, and I'll be taking the kids again this year, but this one thing just really turns me off. It feels like manipulation, or like they just want to count how many hands get raised for their records.

 

Thoughts?

[Nakia]

That is not done in our AWANA program.

[ChristusG]

I don't think that's done in our program...I'll have to ask my DD. She's been in AWANA since she was 4 (she's 7 now) and was not saved from anything they did. We talk about God a lot around our house, try to live for him, etc. She did get saved when she was 5, but it was due to things we'd been talking about. I asked her over and over again if she was absolutely sure. We talked it out. I didn't want it to be just "something that she did." I really wanted her to understand. And she seemed to. But no, I don't think our program does that. But now I'll be sure to ask my DD in the morning.

[Harriet Vane]

Two thoughts for your:

 

On the one hand, I really dislike the emotional pressure and salesmanship involved. Especially the salesmanship--ugh.

 

However, I think back on my own salvation story. My Sunday School teacher gave a weekly invitation. I have to credit her with not being overly pressuring--she just said something like, "If you don't have Jesus in your heart, I want you to go to the little room in the back and I will come there and talk to you all about it." Week after week, I did know that I did not have Jesus in my heart. I watched, and no one else ever went in the back to talk to the teacher, so I never did either. However, the idea that God was not in my heart bothered me, and over time I thought about it quite a bit and eventually decided to "ask Jesus into my heart."

 

It was a real decision, and one I had carefully considered.

 

Later in life I questioned if that occasion had really been "it" or not. I questioned if I'd known what I was doing, or if I had been sincere enough. However, I have come to accept the idea that at that crossroads in my life, with the information I had available to me as a child, I chose consciously to make God a part of my life, to be IN me. As I grew and matured, I continued to choose thus.

[Joanne]

I left Awana for this reason.

 

I don't believe children can "accept Christ" or "be saved".

 

So, yes, I think preaching the need for salvation to children is a concern. I feel more strongly that that, actually, but I'll leave it at that.

[Mosaicmind]

I do believe that children can accept Christ, but our Awana program does not do this.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Mosaicmind
not wanting to stir up another controversy.

[obsidian]

Our Awana does not do so. I can't imagine most Cubbies understanding the gospel enough to make any sort of decision at.all.

Edited August 15, 2011 by STEM

[Whereneverever]

This is one of the reasons I'm not part of AWANA or anything similar- I don't believe in decision theology.

 

It would bother me a lot.

[The Girls' Mom]

This makes me batty. Salvation isn't praying a prayer. It's not a checked box. It's not a sticker earned on a card. It's a thoughtful choice to believe in your need for salvation, and the acceptance of Christ's redemption. It's one thing to lead a child in the understanding of the gospel. It's another entirely to sugar coat it and lull a child into thinking they are saved. My own denomination is HORRIBLE about this and it often makes me want to cry. I think it IS misleading and shouldn't be done.

[carlamom2ansnm]

I teach in our Cubbies class and we don't do anything at all like that. I don't know 100% about the older kids, but I don't believe they do either. Maybe you could talk to someone at the church about your feelings with this? Seems a little extreme.

[jewellsmommy]

No, it is not done like this in our program. We let the children come to us with their questions. We make sure that they know we are always available for any issue or question they have, but there is not an "invitation" time.

[SeekingHim77]

This makes me batty. Salvation isn't praying a prayer. It's not a checked box. It's not a sticker earned on a card. It's a thoughtful choice to believe in your need for salvation, and the acceptance of Christ's redemption. It's one thing to lead a child in the understanding of the gospel. It's another entirely to sugar coat it and lull a child into thinking they are saved. My own denomination is HORRIBLE about this and it often makes me want to cry. I think it IS misleading and shouldn't be done.

 

My denomination is pretty heavy with this habit as well. It's one of the only things that really bother me about my church.

[Heather in Neverland]

Thank goodness our AWANA does not do this. While I do advocate for teaching children the truth about sin, I do not believe in decision theology either and I do not allow it to be taught at our school.

[Pretty in Pink]

CC - I have noticed something since my kids started AWANA last year that I never noticed when I attended as a kid (maybe I just tuned it out?). Every week, there is an "opportunity" (with a bit of pressure) for kids to accept Christ. I think it is great that they present the gospel message, but I am a bit torn about this policy.

 

If every week from the time he turns 3, DS "accepts Christ" so he can "go wheeee up to Heaven without sin getting in the way and making him go splat," doesn't that make it hard to know when he really gets it, when he really makes the decision to follow Christ?

 

Do the leaders do this at your AWANA clubs? Does it bother you? I was a little bothered by them taking time at the end of every week in Sparks (K-2) to do this, but the Cubbies thing really bothered me. There was one mom who was a helper, and she told the leader that her kid loved rockets, so he should explain it as going on a rocketship way up to Heaven. The kid says yes, he wants to do it, he repeats the prayer, hooray! Mom is so happy she has tears in her eyes. Do these people really think this kid who can barely speak in complete sentences has understood that he is a sinner and has trusted Christ for salvation?

 

Am I the only one who doesn't particularly want my child to be saved as young as possible? I'd rather they truly understand so it is a meaningful decision for them. I led my daughter through the process only when I could tell she really understood and she had been asking about it for weeks. She was young (5), but I'm her mom and I could tell she was really ready. Even so I'm a little sad that she probably won't have a permanent memory of that moment.

 

I love AWANA for the Bible memory, and I'll be taking the kids again this year, but this one thing just really turns me off. It feels like manipulation, or like they just want to count how many hands get raised for their records.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yes, this happens at our AWANA program as well, especially in the preteen/teen classes. It annoys me to no end. My younger boys have been instructed not to 'accept Christ' at AWANA class and to talk to Mommy and Daddy about it if/when they feel that they want to 'accept Christ'. Our eldest ds has elected not to participate in AWANA this fall and this is one of the reasons. He said that he just disagrees with a lot of what is taught in his class.

 

My little guys are still learning Bible stories and such, nothing too heavy, and they still enjoy it, so they are going back this fall. I am glad that we are moving within the next year though and will be able to either look for a new AWANA group or drop the activity altogether.

[Renee in NC]

This bothers me too. I grew up in that kind of church and can't tell you how many times I "prayed the prayer," each time hoping that this time worked. Frankly, I think it messed me up for a while.

 

Blech.

 

I don't think the Great Commission is about making say-these-words-and-you'll-be-saved converts. It's about making disciples. Children can be trained in the ways of Jesus without the pressure-filled and often emotionally confusing calls to "ask Jesus into your heart."

 

I think part of the problem, too, is that some of those churches treat these children's events as if everything begins and ends with the sinner's prayer. Where's the discipleship? The follow-up?

 

All that said, I do know people IRL who, as others have testified here, really did meet Jesus that way, and have a vibrant faith now. So it's hard to trash it completely, kwim?

 

Some people seem to have a "Paul-like" conversion experience and others a more "walking to Emmaus" conversion experience. Of course, that is just my opinion.;)

[JulieH]

Well thanks ladies! I've been "on the fence" about Awanas this fall (some of it for the reasons mentioned here) and you've just cleared our schedule for 2 hours a week!:lol:

[FaithManor]

I left Awana for this reason.

 

I don't believe children can "accept Christ" or "be saved".

 

So, yes, I think preaching the need for salvation to children is a concern. I feel more strongly that that, actually, but I'll leave it at that.

 

 

I agree with Joanne! They are too young, too immature, too everything to "get it" just yet and salvation is too complicated to be wrapped up in just "the sinner's prayer" which isn't Biblical anyway.

 

My issue is that the scripture speaks of us becoming a new creation...the greek verb there is similar to our present participle...an action that begins in the past, is happening in the present, and will continue into the future.

 

Therefore, dh and I believe that it is more accurate to teach "I am being saved, I will be saved". Very much along the lines of Orthodoxy in this regard.

 

I would be very concerned about this because it comes across as manipulation and emotional pressure on innocent children who really can't understand it. It also incorrectly teaches that "saying a specific prayer" puts one "in" the "club" and this just isn't accurate. I think it can lead to further, more dangerous, misconceptions down the road when life gets a lot more complicated for these children and it also guilt trips the child who would prefer not to "pray for salvation" into doing so in order to fit in with the others, please the teacher, etc.

 

I am sure there are many others who will disagree with me. My humble two cents worth here! :001_smile:

 

Faith

[klmama]

Don't decide based on other people's clubs. Go to the source - ask the leader of your child's club how this is handled. At our church, helping a child pray to receive Christ is entirely the responsibility of the parent. The Awana club and the Sunday School teachers present the gospel, of course, but they tell children who want to pray to accept Jesus to discuss it with their parents. They also tell parents that if they want guidance in helping their children with this, the leaders would be happy to talk with them (the parents). The role of our church and Awana is to come alongside the parents as the primary spiritual teachers of their children, not to usurp their authority.

[Alphabetika]

This makes me batty. Salvation isn't praying a prayer. It's not a checked box. It's not a sticker earned on a card. It's a thoughtful choice to believe in your need for salvation, and the acceptance of Christ's redemption. It's one thing to lead a child in the understanding of the gospel. It's another entirely to sugar coat it and lull a child into thinking they are saved. My own denomination is HORRIBLE about this and it often makes me want to cry. I think it IS misleading and shouldn't be done.

 

:iagree: Salvation involves heartfelt repentance, and this can be difficult for a child to understand.

[abreakfromlife]

I love this thread! I didn't realize there was a term for it..I've never heard of 'decision theology'. Love that. I don't want my kids asking Jesus into their hearts either and people usually look at me a little crazy when I say that. In addition to all the other reasons mentioned, Jesus says, count the cost. I just don't think a 6 yo can really do that. I think they can be taught and discipled without having to 'make a decision' so that when they are older, they know what they're getting into and what it means to really follow Jesus.

[Harriet Vane]

This bothers me too. I grew up in that kind of church and can't tell you how many times I "prayed the prayer," each time hoping that this time worked. Frankly, I think it messed me up for a while.

 

Blech.

 

I don't think the Great Commission is about making say-these-words-and-you'll-be-saved converts. It's about making disciples. Children can be trained in the ways of Jesus without the pressure-filled and often emotionally confusing calls to "ask Jesus into your heart."

 

I think part of the problem, too, is that some of those churches treat these children's events as if everything begins and ends with the sinner's prayer. Where's the discipleship? The follow-up?

 

All that said, I do know people IRL who, as others have testified here, really did meet Jesus that way, and have a vibrant faith now. So it's hard to trash it completely, kwim?

 

Well said.

[Ginevra]

This is the main reason I was never interested in Awana or VBS. I remember from my childhood the campaign that we had to "reach" all those "lost" friends of ours. I'm not in a hurry to have my kids recite a prayer based on an immature desire to go to heaven. If they embrace Christianity (or any faith), I want it to be out of the mature desires of their own heart. We promote Christianity in our home, but I'm not rushing anyone to the altar - it is for them to desire on their own.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Quill
spelling

[Mynyel]

The AWANA I pulled my daughter from was this this. They told a story about an 11 yo girl that went to church one night and didn't go up and accept Christ, well on the way home her parents were going to fast and ran into something (I forget now what it was) and they all died, she is now in hell because she didn't go up to the front of the church and accept Christ. They said this to the kids. There was an alter call right after the story.

 

I am not a believer in alter calls. I don't like them and won't go to a church that has them. We pulled her from this particular AWANA very soon after. Like within 2 weeks. Another parent and myself expressed our concern over this matter. I have no idea what happened as we didn't stick around.

 

 

ETA: My kids have never "accepted" Christ and never will. They were born into a home that believes in Christ and they have always and, presumably, always will.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Mynyel

[KidsHappen]

I am not a Christian so you may want to take my opinion with a grain of salt but IMO, a child should never be pressured to make this kind of decision. :glare: If a child is not old enough to make a life long decision like say, marriage, then they are not old enough to make an eternal decision regarding their very soul.

[Ellesmere]

[

[KatA]

I'm not in a hurry to have my kids recite a prayer based on an immature desire to go to heaven.

 

This makes me think of my husband. When he was young (7 or 8) he was so scared of hell that he "accepted Jesus." I honestly believe that it has led to a stunted growth as a Christian. He's a believer still, but he has issues with how he felt pressured and that it was more out of fear than desire or even interest.

[forty-two]

A question: what about people who don't have the mental capacity to "get it"--who are perpetually childlike in their rational abilities? How are they able to decide? Curious...

AFAIK, under decision theology they are either below the age of accountability and thus get a free pass, or it sucks to be them :001_huh:.

 

I don't believe in decision theology. Understanding is *not* required to be saved - "understanding" or "making a decision" are both works of men, and salvation is 100% the work of God. And we don't "accept Jesus"; rather, Jesus accepts us. And He is perfectly capable of accepting infants and others who don't have the mental capacity to get it.

[Ellesmere]

This makes me think of my husband. When he was young (7 or 8) he was so scared of hell that he "accepted Jesus." I honestly believe that it has led to a stunted growth as a Christian. He's a believer still, but he has issues with how he felt pressured and that it was more out of fear than desire or even interest.

I knew a lot of people who struggled in the same way. They made decisions even younger (I regularly heard people say they "accepted Jesus" at age three, four, or five) and then struggled as they got older about "assurance". They would "get saved" again, and get baptized again.

 

AFAIK, under decision theology they are either below the age of accountability and thus get a free pass, or it sucks to be them :001_huh:.

 

Pretty much. I can't speak for everyone that subscribes to that line of thought, but the church we once attended taught that if a child was under the accountability age or if the person was mentally challenged enough, they got a free pass.