The Child-Centered Household

[spaceman]

I respectfully disagree with this-I have her main book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves and it has been immensely helpful in developing my approach towards my own kids (which is by no means hands-off!) There may be aspects to her philosophy that I disagree with, but overall, I think she provides a valuable perspective.

 

I may have been unnecessarily harsh on her ideas. I actually like a lot of what she says. I was just disillusioned with a few things (and because "my" version was NOT working for us, at all).

 

I'm actually just tickled that I got quoted. :D :tongue_smilie:

 

I keep thinking about this though. How sad it would feel to think you *had* to send your kids to the grandparents because of a neighbor kid's behavior. I wonder if there is more to the story, and perhaps this was just tipping point?

[calandalsmom]

Just to address the info in the OP: What kind of weak kneed ninny sends her kids away from home rather than handle a really very simple situation of disagreement with a neighbor?

 

As an adult, you can only be a victim of a 12 yr old if you allow yourself to be.

 

 

 

As for TCS and radical unschooling... the radically unschooled kids in our group are not brats at all. They are thoughtful pleasant kids.

[Greenmama2]

My ipad isn't letting me edit quotes so let me just say that I agree heartily with farrarwilliams

I think there can be a lot of merit to some of the ideas behind this thinking. Coming from an attachment parenting, liberal sort of style, I certainly ask for my kids' input on all kinds of matters. Whenever possible, I put them in charge of their own well-being and their own entertainment, enjoyment, etc. I let them work things out as much as possible and sometimes refuse to step in.

 

The difference is that there are clear boundaries where I'll comfortably step in and set outside boundaries if I need to. I would much rather they figure out that it's worth it to bring your mittens in winter, so I'll gladly let them not bring them in the hopes that they figure it out. But other safety things I'll handle until they get older. I think it's worth it for them to learn to mediate disputes for themselves, even if there are sometimes yelling and tears. But not for bullying and violence. The question for me is always how much freedom can I give them. And, if I can't give them the freedom and the choice, how can I structure it so that they're ready for it in the future.

 

People who have absolutely no non-negotiables, no boundaries at all... they give a bad name, in my humble opinion, to parents who try to raise our kids with less coercion, not no coercion. And they turn some people off to parenting techniques that they might find useful if they had not seen them taken way too far. All things in moderation, you know.

 

I think of Alfie Kohn as the lead thinker in this style of parenting these days... he goes a bit too far for me though.

 

Oh, and I'm with WendyK's call the police suggestion too. Good grief.

 

I may have been unnecessarily harsh on her ideas. I actually like a lot of what she says. I was just disillusioned with a few things (and because "my" version was NOT working for us, at all).

 

I'm actually just tickled that I got quoted. :D :tongue_smilie:

 

I keep thinking about this though. How sad it would feel to think you *had* to send your kids to the grandparents because of a neighbor kid's behavior. I wonder if there is more to the story, and perhaps this was just tipping point?

[Greenmama2]

And a big yes to this;

I keep thinking about this though. How sad it would feel to think you *had* to send your kids to the grandparents because of a neighbor kid's behavior. I wonder if there is more to the story, and perhaps this was just tipping point?

Radical Unschooler here by the way but I can't imagine not intervening if either of my children were hurting another child. That doesn't make sense. At the very least for their own safety (victims often eventually hit back...)

[Alicia64]

What sort of bullying? If the girl is physically or verbally attacking the children and the parents don't want to handle it then I would call the police and report that my children were being harassed by a neighbor. That seems like the perfect "natural" consequence (which will hopefully work on both the parent and the child).

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I just want to add that I wouldn't leave a 7 and 10 year old boy alone anyway -- bully next door or not.

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

I just looked up the guidelines. What I found said that most states leave it up to the parents, but they do give guidelines including this:

 

Age Guidelines

7 & under Should not be left alone for any period of time. This may include leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and backyards. The determining consideration would be the dangers in the environment and the ability of the caretaker to intervene. 8 to 10 yrs. Should not be left alone for more than 1½ hours and only during daylight and early evening hours. 11 to 12 yrs. May be left alone for up to 3 hours but not late at night or in circumstances requiring inappropriate responsibility. 13 to 15 yrs. May be left unsupervised, but not overnight. 16 to 17 yrs. May be left unsupervised (in some cases, for up to two consecutive overnight periods).

[gracyomalley]

Just wondering if practitioners of non-coercive parenting, etc...have ever read Lord of the Flies????

 

I am a pediatrician. I homeschool. Pretty much everything I do is "child-friendly" or even "child-centered" in the true meaning of the word. However, to assume that children with no life experience and knowledge will always make wise decisions is a cop out! (Or at least doesn't respect the process of learning and developing that all children (and adults) are going through.) You are NOT RESPECTING your child if you let them make all the mistakes they will have to make to learn what adults can gently teach them...Really, should they learn not to drink and drive by killing their friends? should they learn not to have unprotected sex because it seems like the thing to do by getting pregnant or STDs? Should they learn not to play video games all day by not getting a job until they are 45? If you don't set limits when they are young, it will take a whole lot of trial and error for CHILDREN to learn the natural limits the world has....and I, for one, am not fine with that degree of natural consequences, although a big fan of such in general (as in, if you don't eat your dinner you will be hungry - as mommy is a person, just like baby, and doesn't want to cook 3 meals a day! I will treat them with respect...and expect them to do likewise for ME)

 

Finally, I agree that sending kids away from unpleasant situations is not the answer - however, a summer with grandma in the country may be much more nurturing than home alone with a scary kid next door - if the mother/father couldn't help the kids deal with the scary kid appropriately!

 

Well, off to force my children to make their beds, eat a healthy breakfast, brush their teeth and start their work...

erin

[gracyomalley]

Oh, well three meals a day is ok, just not 3 different meals each time!

[TheAutumnOak]

Just wondering if practitioners of non-coercive parenting, etc...have ever read Lord of the Flies????

 

 

:lol:

 

 

However, to assume that children with no life experience and knowledge will always make wise decisions is a cop out! (Or at least doesn't respect the process of learning and developing that all children (and adults) are going through.) You are NOT RESPECTING your child if you let them make all the mistakes they will have to make to learn what adults can gently teach them...Really, should they learn not to drink and drive by killing their friends? should they learn not to have unprotected sex because it seems like the thing to do by getting pregnant or STDs? Should they learn not to play video games all day by not getting a job until they are 45? If you don't set limits when they are young, it will take a whole lot of trial and error for CHILDREN to learn the natural limits the world has....and I, for one, am not fine with that degree of natural consequences, although a big fan of such in general (as in, if you don't eat your dinner you will be hungry

 

 

:iagree:

 

Totally with this one...Even an animal will teach their young to avoid moving cars and predators...I feel it is the parent's responsibility to teach and guide children...You did not bring home a peer, you brought home a baby or in some cases a child, and should treat your child like a growing human being, not an adult...

Edited August 9, 2011 by TheAutumnOak
wrote "child" instead of "children" :-)

[laughing lioness]

Eustace Scrubb

 

*snort!* :lol:

[PeacefulChaos]

[quote name=

 

Age Guidelines

7 & under Should not be left alone for any period of time. This may include leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and backyards. The determining consideration would be the dangers in the environment and the ability of the caretaker to intervene. 8 to 10 yrs. Should not be left alone for more than 1½ hours and only during daylight and early evening hours. 11 to 12 yrs. May be left alone for up to 3 hours but not late at night or in circumstances requiring inappropriate responsibility. 13 to 15 yrs. May be left unsupervised, but not overnight. 16 to 17 yrs. May be left unsupervised (in some cases, for up to two consecutive overnight periods).

 

I had no idea such a thing existed. Where does one find guidelines on how old kids should be left alone?? I can also say with certainty that I broke several of those as a kid/teenager... :001_huh:

[DianeW88]

I have known 2 or 3 families who follow similar philosophies. Their children were utter and complete brats and were not a joy to be around. At all. The parents really believed that one day their children would suddenly "get it" and start to behave on their own. They are so far sorely mistaken.

 

:iagree:AMEN!! I don't think you could do much worse to a child than follow a philosophy as misguided as this one.

[Farrar]

 

I had no idea such a thing existed. Where does one find guidelines on how old kids should be left alone?? I can also say with certainty that I broke several of those as a kid/teenager... :001_huh:

 

That varies from state to state. Some states have no clear guidelines.

 

It's definitely moved more toward younger children having less freedom. :glare: But, um, some people would be applauding that. Just not me.

[Tammyla]

Next door neighbor...Stay out of our yard...

 

I would simply let her know she isn't welcome.

 

In my life, there just isn't enough time to worry about other peoples parenting philosophies. :tongue_smilie:

[Carol in Cal.]

Next door neighbor...Stay out of our yard...

 

I would simply let her know she isn't welcome.

 

In my life, there just isn't enough time to worry about other peoples parenting philosophies. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm not so sure that this would work without policing.

I have only known a couple of kids like that, but they had NO boundaries. They would grab an art project that someone else was working on, and even if told not to by a presiding adult would do so again. They would push kids aside to get something that they wanted. Feral is really just about it.

[parias1126]

:lol:

 

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

Totally with this one...Even an animal will teach their young to avoid moving cars and predators...I feel it is the parent's responsibility to teach and guide children...You did not bring home a peer, you brought home a baby or in some cases a child, and should treat your child like a growing human being, not an adult...

:iagree:

Very well said!

[Grammar Stage Parent]

Just to address the info in the OP: What kind of weak kneed ninny sends her kids away from home rather than handle a really very simple situation of disagreement with a neighbor?

 

As for TCS and radical unschooling... the radically unschooled kids in our group are not brats at all. They are thoughtful pleasant kids.

 

I'll take your word for it that the radically unschooled kids in your group are thoughtful and pleasant, if you take my word that my friend is not a "weak kneed ninny", okay?

 

As an adult, you can only be a victim of a 12 yr old if you allow yourself to be.

 

One of the reasons I want to find out more about this philosophy (see my OP) is that I wonder if such parents are inclined to call the cops and report people who stand up to them. After all, she is my friend and I am concerned about her. This child-centered mother is a psychotherapist and probably knows a thing or two about the law -and how to talk herself around it. Have there never been bullies that insisted that the victim hit first?

Edited August 9, 2011 by Grammar Stage Parent

[AngelBee]

I have been wondering about this lately. When I first started reading about homeschooling (about 14-15 years ago) "unschooling" was defined, more or less, as "learning in an unconentional manner." I.e.-- embarking on projects and trips instead of doing seatwork, giving up textbooks for "real life" learning... that sort of thing. There was a story back then about a boy whose dad drove him across the country to study US geography.

 

But it seems that "unschooling" somehow morphed into a fear of putting any expectations or limits on your child for fear of somehow damaging their psyche or "love of learning." I have encountered moms who will not put ANY restrictions on their kids for fear of "not respecting their [the child's] autonomy" -- so they can play video games all day, dress however they want, not learn math, watch cartoons all day... no limits at all. I just don't see how this is a good thing for anyone involved?

 

I am sometimes drawn to the first concept of unschooling (unconventional learning) but not the latter (letting your child be emperor). I just don't know which is the "real" unschooling?

:iagree: to me the first is unschooling. The second is lazy parenting.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Next door neighbor...Stay out of our yard...

 

I would simply let her know she isn't welcome.

 

In my life, there just isn't enough time to worry about other peoples parenting philosophies. :tongue_smilie:

 

This.

 

And with a neighbor like that, I'd be talking through a expensive lawyer like yesterday. That situation must be nipped in the bud pronto or it will go on for years and years.

[zenjenn]

I haven't read all the responses, but I am not surprised this parent has a PhD and is a practicing psychologist.

 

I'd say "this of no offense intended to PhDs or practicing psychologists," but a reasonable person in either category should know why I made the above statement.

 

"Patient-centered psychology." I'm assuming that's where the patient is supposed to affirm their own worth no matter what, rather than being taught to be constructively self-critical.

 

Oy vei.

[mom2denj]

What sort of bullying? If the girl is physically or verbally attacking the children and the parents don't want to handle it then I would call the police and report that my children were being harassed by a neighbor. That seems like the perfect "natural" consequence (which will hopefully work on both the parent and the child).

:iagree: This is what I would do. That is just insane! I have never heard of this. How sad that your friend's child cannot go outside. I wonder what the momma will think when her sweet girl does this to the wrong person and starts geting her butt whipped! I do not promote that, but it will inevitably happen.:glare:

[Grammar Stage Parent]

I wonder what the momma will think when her sweet girl does this to the wrong person and starts geting her butt whipped! I do not promote that, but it will inevitably happen.:glare:

 

Earlier in this thread, I asked someone how what it means for "life" to be a "teacher". I haven't gotten a response yet.

 

I would also want to know to what limit life can be a teacher, especially since someone else noted that a family following the child-centered philosophy just saw their 14-year old give up a baby for adoption.

[Crimson Wife]

I would also want to know to what limit life can be a teacher, especially since someone else noted that a family following the child-centered philosophy just saw their 14-year old give up a baby for adoption.

 

It's been my observation that as teens & young adults, not infrequently children raised with this type of overly permissive parenting wind up in rehab.

[Milknhoney]

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but...

 

Has anyone suggested enrolling the children in karate? Something tells me that this girl would lose interest in bullying kids that could defend themselves.

[Hedgehogs4]

The thing that makes me wonder is what kind of person wants to live with a child like that? The mother of that kid must be a glutton for punishment!

[kalanamak]

The thing that makes me wonder is what kind of person wants to live with a child like that? The mother of that kid must be a glutton for punishment!

 

The lure of ideology.