NO great advice here - 2E son was my most frustrating kid this year by FAR....hit puberty head on, decided he was dumb in math so didn't do it (and therefore fell behind, felt dumb, etc....), did lots of science so he's "done" with what we had planned for middle school there (he's finishing 7th), read some, wrote maybe one paragraph all year, but at least will now write complete (although almost illegible and with such interesting spellings you must decode) sentence answers to questions...although everything I chose for him was either "TOO HARD - YOU KNOW I'M NOT GOOD AT THIS STUFF" or "THIS IS BABY STUFF>>>EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS"... I even talked extensively with his pediatrician and the psychologist who originally tested him (we all work in the same office)... He did turn on the juice with his music and gymnastics - and although still not practicing as much as he probably should (with his wanting to be a famous violinist and have a fancy car and only make music for a living...), he has advanced and is playing beautifully and confidently (He really has the potential to be a professional and make a living....not sure about the fancy car....but I drive 12 year old vehicles, so fancy to him could mean a place to plug in your Iphone...)...and he's skipped two gymnastics levels, now training with the boys who have done it for 2-3 years longer than he...and a shot of making it to college level. Really the kid would be happy to work his hiney off in these areas...and learn tons of interesting stuff as long as he doesn't have to write anything down...EVER.... He seems tons happier now than 6 months ago, and everyone who's ever worked with him has pointed out the importance of his "islands of excellence" and his extreme anxiety with failure/risk aversion.....except now he's taking all sorts of risks musically and athletically....isn't the theory that this will spill over to his school work? We even talked about brick and mortar school, but there are no options for a good private school that we can afford and keep him in music ( although I say he doesn't practice enough - he still does 2-3 hours of practice, classes or performing a day)...and the idea of public middle school for this kiddo gives me nightmares...not socially - he says if anyone thinks you aren't cool you just smile and do a standing back tuck and they "know you are cool..." - its academically that I can't imagine him there....his processing speed is still in the single digits percentage wise... In desperation, I got him TT algebra last month and told him if he wants credit (mommy credit) for a year of algebra he has to finish it and 1/2 of TT algebra 2....he's on lesson 31...had skated through K12 pre-algebra last year (I was trying to limit writing) without learning much at all - then the 6 months of almost no math - so he's out of practice - but its getting a bit better....I've given up on formal spelling, he must write and we will correct - word processing, etc...he has started texting friends and uses his baby brother to help with spelling...so improvement or at least some effort going into learning it...he has an almost photographic memory - so as long as he doesn't try to apply all the phonics I taught him, he spells some words right! We are setting goals for 8th grade and I am trying to get him to "own" what he wants to do with high school - basics to get through and into conservatory - or more truely college prep....it is "killing me" to see this really very smart kid do basic work - but then I watch him play a concerto or do a double back into the pit at gym..and the smiles and confidence are huge...I just hope he can make a living someday!!!

I agree that at 12, if a child doesn't LOVE gymnastics, then going to the competitive level is probably not "right" for them - the time commitment is astronomical, and the energy/personal determination required large too. My daughter actually found the hours/workload/coaching differences much easier to deal with (as in she didn't actually even notice) when she was 9 than now at 11! Different coaches are different, and there are some with shall we say draconian methods - but even her loving/kind/raised them from babies head coach who has worked with her from age 5 occ. seems "mean" to girls who haven't "grown up" in gym. Proper technique is critical for safety and skill development in gym, and doing an exercise the wrong way teaches muscles to shape a way which later can cause both poor gymnastics, but more importantly pain or injury. My daughter has spent 11 months working on her giants but not competing them because of an archy back....many girls at meets just "do it" with terrible arches that make me, as a pediatrician, cringe....I'd rather DD get frustrated, and maybe shed a tear here or there, than injured or more likely hit a wall with gym because she's not properly trained. And if she ends up moving on to other interests because of these things - then that's what's right for her. All that to say that it sounds like its wasn't the coach as much as the process/reality of competitive gym that wasn't right for your daughter - and part of life is figuring these things out for ourselves! Wishing your dd good luck!

This is very timely, as I am in the process of setting up clear goals for my rising 7th grader who needs to take more ownership of his time management this year...a work in progress as I'm sure you all know! In general, I see 7th and 8th grade as pre-high school, and expect the kids to be able to do dual enrollment in high school for science lab classes, higher math, music, etc....(well we aren't there yet but that's my expectation if we homeschool high school successfully, anyway.) People, even on this forum, homeschool for so many different reasons, and the different answers reflect that. We have always kept up a couple of hours a day during much of the summer, in order to not sit at desks for 8 hours a day...however, the kids know what college is like (hours of homework, etc) and know that if they are unprepared it will be much harder (luckily or unluckily they have family members who have gone many different paths in this area....) It strikes me as being a very different conversation in the home where there are no social activities/extracurricular passions/friends for miles on end; versus those with friends down the street, kids with serious outside interests, etc. Part of growing to be ready to make the choices in college to study instead of dink around is having learned to prioritize your own time - and the planners written to the kids, etc seems a good way to get there - as well as allowing them to make the choices and live with the consequences now - ideally not when its costing them 20k/year! DS will be doing approximately 28 hours per week of violin next year; including lessons/orchestras/quartet and only 2 hours of practice a day. This is what he plans on doing for the rest of his life - and he's at a level where he needs this time to keep progressing. I know he may not be playing as an adult; but I also know that this is his talent/niche/area of confidence/dream right now....and that this is a BARE MINIMUM for an advanced musician....this is academic/social/and extracurricular. This teaches him work ethic/responsibility - as concert master he needs to be a leader, prepared, etc...and also shows him that there are kids out there working harder/longer hours at violin - who are winning national contests - so he has to make choices of what he wants to sacrifice and learn to live with the consequences... Of course, he also has to be progressing well academically - as he knows that he needs "plan B", and besides he loves learning - just not writing!!! So that means at least 4-5 hours of book work a day plus work during the summer and extra reading/homework some evenings/weekends. And as the oldest boy on a small farm, he has at least an hour a day of chores minimum. Thats 9-10 hours a day right there....and he's 13 so he needs to sleep at least 8 hours a day to function/more like 10! Leaves about 4 hours a day for meals/hygiene/family time/driving places/social and gymnastics....not really enough at his age I'd say..... Can't back off on sleep, can't back off on chores (wouldn't send the right message), family time is required, so it comes to music or "schoolwork" (said with a derisive sneer by said 13 year old).... I plan on a strict year long goal for each subject this year....and I expect to do weekly planner for him - with restrictions on social time/gym time/staring at the ceiling petting the cat time....I'm hoping he rises to the occaision...but I know that its likely to take most of adolescence to get there! He is presently reading several grade levels ahead, and 1-2 ahead in math and science; but 1-2 behind in writing/mechanics/lit analysis. He will NOT be a writer...but needs to be able to at least write an essay for music scholarship funds by next year... What say you who have traveled the road before? My lofty goal is kids who know what they want and how to work hard at it by the end of high school....so whatever they strive for they will persevere....and kids who can function at college....or a job...and in life!

Just to be a bit of a wrench in the system, I do think that (with the exception of highly gifted kids), there is a time when those early learners sometimes seem to "stall". A 3 year old who teaches herself to read and write "appears" quite bright...however, when that kid is in 5th grade, still scoring in the upper percentiles on tests, but grappling with middle school level work and higher reading levels, she may seem "stuck" in the areas she hasn't matured enough for...and to a teacher of 30 in a classroom, the subtle differences between that kid and the other "successful" students will not be apparent, especially with "common core" and multiple choice testing...that this kid now can read at the 12+ grade level will not be apparent if she is working on diligence in mastering science lab write ups, etc....the real question I wonder about is how to support this child THROUGH the challenge/tedious time while still challenging the intellect.... this year, for better or worse, I actually dropped my middle 2 "levels" in math, because she kept achieving only "partial mastery" in pre-algebra....so she has done all of TT5 in 2 months, will do TT 6 similarly, and TT 7 this year....possibly the pre-algebra as well. She knows I don't think its the best math, and that she needs to be ready for more rigorous algebra by 8th grade - but for once she is happily doing several lessons a day, not making careless mistakes, and not arguing....while reading high school level literature for fun in her free time....she has always scored great on conceptual math - way above grade level, but never got good at being careful and complete...returning to easy stuff but having a high work load/expectation of high scores was her choice....I think in a class room this would be interpreted as "evening out" but I still think she'll be able to do well with higher math at a relatively young age...we shall see (and she's only gifted by test scores, not highly....

I think at 5 its a balance, and different from kid to kid. All of mine tried a bunch of things then - art classes, dance, soccer, gym, swimming, violin, baseball, Spanish, to name a few. As the third came around the driving became a limiting factor, and there have been more limits on choices (and frankly, the olders became more involved in a few things, and those things became more expensive....) We "require" music and a physical activity/sport for each kid. At this point (8,10,12) if they want more than that they have to show that they can do well in academics and the 1st 2 before adding number three (I mean their personal "well", not necessarily win prizes, etc...just work hard and progress at their own pace). All 3 have learned to swim, all three do some art here and there. Foreign language and science lab classes at the local university are included in academics. All are required to be involved at Church. We have a small farm, so all three are gardening, raising livestock and doing plenty of extracurricular mucking out goat pens! For us, one of the big joys in homeschooling is each kid finding their "passion" as DD puts it... as in "mom I'm ready to go to gym - don't make me late for my passion" but as in life, you can't do EVERYTHING, or at least not well! However, I wll say that there are times of "burn out" when all they want to do is follow their passions to play legos/build forts/draw ponies....and its important to make sure they have some time for that too! For DS #3 these play times are much more important to him than the other things - but for the other 2 they are clearly "rest" times. Also, if I could do anything differently, I would be more careful budgetting for the future of these activities...as in its reasonable to do gym one hour a week, most people can afford that. But when its 25 hours a week with all the extras...it can be quite a pinch, as can the tux, full size NOT student grade violin, accompanist fees, etc that come with music later on....Each family will need to make their own choices about this stuff - but I can tell you its pretty hard to look them in the eye and say you can no longer afford their "passion"!! (I'm just going to sell one of them!) Good luck and have fun trying stuff out! Erin

I totally agree about the difference between true "busy work" and skill review/practice - and all three of my kids hate even "review and practice" - a little busy-ish work with clear goals will do them good - especially if its not MOM telling them to do 5 more long division problems because they missed 2....I'm not against worksheets at all - just don't want to be buried in them! Erin

We did MM 6A, then DS has been doing Thinkwell 7th grade this summer - which has all been repeat so far....he'll do pre-algebra in the fall with K12....subject and rigor wise, I think if a child did all of MM 6 and really GOT it on their own, they could go into Algebra without a seperate pre-algebra...but for my oldest, MM got quite challenging in 5 and 6, and as he's only starting 6th grade this fall I wanted to make sure he had formal pre-algebra before hitting algebra - IMHO that is what pre-algebra is all about - review and building on all the concepts (fractions, decimals, ratios, integers, probablility, etc...) while introducing more algeraic thinking and problem solving so that kids are firmly into abstract math before they hit algebra....some kids need a year of that, some kids need 2, some none... Again, a child who really thrives with MM 5 and 6 independently would be fine going into algebra...I haven't had that kid yet, but my younest could be there in a few years....possibly... Erin

Thanks for all the input. We have looked at Connections, however, we aren't doing this "full time", just for a few subjects, and can't do that with connections here - also I did Calvert with the olders in K and 1st and it wasn't my cup of tea....I'm hoping to be able to get around the busy work by only doing that which they need to meet the assessment goals...and the older 2 are doing middle school level course work, so hopefully there will be less repetition. I do have to say I am nervous about math, as all three kids are a year ahead and I am a stickler about math curriculums! We shall see how it goes....I have everything already to do a more classical curriculum if this fails - but I hope it frees up some of my time and gives the older 2 some accountability beyond mom.... Erin

I am looking for any advice from those who have tried parts of the K-12 curriculum, either on their own, or through a virtual school. We are entering official middle school for one kid, and middle school level work for another, and as I sit longingly staring at all my classical resources, I am embarking on part time on-line K-12 (through the local public school district, which is offering homeschoolers a part time option - very few strings attached at this point...) due to scheduling issues. My oldest is playing with the local adult symphony, as well as a weekly quartet and practices his violin about 3-4 hours a day, PLUS isn't ready to quit competitive gym (mostly for friendships - but as the music is almost all with adults, being around some boys his age is important), and my middle has her eyes set on being an elite gymnast (like about 2 million girls right now after the Olympics...) - she's already practicing 20 hours a week and doing ballet as well, and moving 2 levels a year in gym....I have to work part time, and their brother is only in 3rd grade - so these 2 need to have more independent work - and schedule! I figure as long as they are making good progress with academics (which to me means staying college preppish), stay involved at Church and do their chores at home, this is the time in life for them to pursue these dreams, before they have to "grow up". Plus I think music will be the older ones career in some manner... Soooo....I am not looking to hear that on-line school is the bee's knees, I would love to teach them differently if we all had 48 hours a day! I am just looking to hear if there are any hints, pitfalls to avoid, etc. We are trying K-12 LA, math at a year ahead of grade level (based on placement), Advanced Middle School Life Science for both kids, and French for "fun" (which we can drop if we can't keep up). We are doing history, Bible, Art and Music our way at home. They are not requiring any testing this year, and we are not doing the "test prep" class that comes with k-12. If we don't finish in 9 months (my biggest fear - as winter gets very hairy with gym travel and concerto contests...) there's no penalty...from the school district at least.... Thanks for reading this far! Erin

We used the Plato courses with a 5th and 4th grader last year. My 5th grader got through all of Earth and Space and about half of the Life Sciences, 4th grader did only Life. Both kids did it independently and with a seperate experiment based class at the local university extension school weekly for hands on. I required they get 90% or above (both did easily) and take notes on lectures as well, which slowed it down. I think you could easily do 2 in one year if that was your only science and you have a kid who likes it. It was great for an independent thing I could send them to do, they seem to have retained a fair amount, and material wise, it seems solid. I can't compare it with k12 (in fact, if anyone can I'd love to hear - I am thinking about part time k12 with the local school district and wondering about science through them, or doing the same thing we did last year!) Erin

Just an encouragement post, in that my oldest "repeated" 5th this year and its been a great idea. He continued to do higher level math and science and spend hours on his music daily, but has slogged along in spelling and writing, and his reading is now grade level but still slow so its hard to do the amount that a classical middle school education involves. Even in math he has "slowed down" some, because I am trying to get him more independent which means he has to read the stuff himself...but I think he'll go into algebra by or before his now 8th grade year confidently, rather than me still sitting there reading for him. Spelling continues to be his weakest, but as other skills develop he can now access technologies to compensate - again, without me always there... Anyhow, your daughter, like my son, is on the young side for her previous grade, and for dyslexics, confidence to do the "hard work" is huge! I wish you luck. Erin

Very interesting post. I have 3 kids, all of whom test in the "above average" range on standardize testing (2 technically gifted and one not fully tested yet). They are also all very short. Both traits are genetic in our family - no great acheivement, just came with the package. Nothing to brag about. One child can play the violin like nobody's business. He gravitated to classical music as a toddler, CHOOSING to listen to full symphonies on his own. He practices 2-5 hours a day by choice. He has a musical gift. His siblings also play at a level "advanced for their age". They also know much more about music than "average" kids their age. They do so because they have been exposed and taught and learned they can't get away without some practice...this is "nurture", and a product of our homeschool environment. All three kids do gymnastics, all compete. One is driven to push herself far beyond the others, and has already acheived more in that area than the other 2...and she didn't walk until 17 months, then hit a lot of walls...atheletically gifted? Or capable and driven to work hard? As a pediatrician I have watched many babies grow from infancy to high school level now...and its interesting which one's appeared "bright" from the beginning - some are schoolwork "rock stars" and others not at all...and honestly each kid seems to show a unique self and unique gifts from the get go...even those with significant challenges! As homeschool parents we really should be offering our children a richer environment than the average PS...with more one on one attention. We should be able to find the "islands of excellence" as they say in learning disorder circles even in our "below average" academic acheivers. Our kids have the opportunity to learn to work hard without feeling like they are "behind so I'm stupid" or "ahead so I'll just slide because I'm so smart"...and in general, that's why homeschool kids DO, on average, significantly out-test PS kids - that, and the fact that many academically gifted kids are being HS these days. This is not to say that teaching kids with different needs, including "gifted", is not a challenge - it is, and each kid is different. But just as Suzuki proved that almost any child can learn to play music well (but not masterfully), kids being taught by the parents on this board, are, in general, getting an environment that is so rich in learning, they will "seem" advanced....and if they also work hard and set goals and are diligent and love what they do - hopefully they will succeed at it....but they will need both the environment and the work - no matter what their inborn gifts are! So are they all mostly average...well, mathematically speaking, of course not, and each one not in all areas. Are they all geniuses...of course not! Erin

What is she like with her friends? I don't mean at group activities, but when playing one on one? If things are fine in one on one or small group activities, especially with children with whom she shares interests, then "all's well"....if she is having trouble connecting with others even in that setting I would worry. If she hasn't had a chance to make any one on one friends, I would look at more small group or interest based activities...introverted kids (and a kid who wants time to study and read on their own is an introvert...) do much better when socializing about something they care about - My older two kids have always been far more talkative one on one - usually with kids they met through violin, gym, science clubs, etc...they then form friendships that reach beyond the activity, but in goup settings a polite smile and a few minutes with the group have always maxed them out! Erin

3 is definitely a step up from 2, in my experience. My daughter did R&S 2 at age 6, did a different curriculum at 7, then FLL 3 at 8, and has done R&S 4 this year at age 9...officially 4th grade and reading/spelling etc at 5th and above....it HAS not been too easy, but she has been pretty facile with it. I would look closely at 3 first before skipping, as although I felt the 2nd grade grammer was really truely 2nd grade level, after that they do seem more advanced. Erin

Having used MM now with one kid from 1-3, and another from 4-6, I guess I would say that it depends upon your goal and your child's attitude. I definitely feel like the chapter reviews at the end of each chapter are EASIER than the actual lessons (especially as you move up in the sequence...lots more complicated word problems, for instance, in the lessons than the review). I think the tests are similar - but honestly, I stopped using them! MM has so much mental math and conceptual math, that I haven't felt the need to skip much (except in MM 6 when, for instance, we review fractions, etc....then we have done 1/2 to 1/3 of the problems per lesson (as Maria suggests). I didn't think skipping whole lessons made sense, because of the challenging word problems...which for my 5th grader were a PUSH. That being said, my 7 year old definitely flew through MM 1 at age 5, and is finishing 3 this weekend....so perhaps that's why we don't need to skip....we are at his challenge level. Again, I would just make sure you are not skipping the MEAT of the program (the challenging approach to basic subjects) by just taking tests to measure proficiency... However, for my middle child, MM has been a hard sell, because she is both accelerated, and hates to do things that are "hard" or repetitious....for her, I pick and choose. erin