Sherri in MI Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 :confused: Help! Every time I decide on something, I find a thread on here, or a review or article elsewhere that makes me decide against it. For example, I had decided on TT, but an article on the Math Mammoth site says that none of the homeschool math curriculums are rigorous enough and that specifically Teaching Textbooks isn't. Looking at TT myself, I thought perhaps it moves too slow for ds, I don't know. And it's very expensive & money is tight. But I like that the student can do it on their own & that they have the solutions & lectures on cd. I really like that they have the solutions. It's like TT comes with a Math teacher. Then I found out Horizons, which we have been using, now has a Pre-Algebra course. But I was looking forward to changing from Horizons, just because I don't think they do a good job of helping the child understand why the math works - they tend to just teach the how. I don't know if the Pre-algebra course is better in this regard. Plus, I read the above mentioned article & Horizons is a specifically homeschooling curriculum. Then I looked at the Veritas Press catalog, figuring that they have pretty rigorous standards. They use Saxon Algebra 1/2 for pre-algebra & then Jacob's Algebra & Forster's beyond that. I'm okay with Jacob's and then Forster's, but not too wild about Saxon. I have never liked it, at least for the elementary school grades. Chalkdust sounds good, but I would never be able to afford it, plus what textbook do they use? It's sounds like they use their own material. (re: Jacobs for Algebra, the author of Math Mammoth has it on her list of recommendations, but says it's too easy. Everything I've read about it makes is sound like a good match for my son, but I don't want something that is not going to prepare him well for advanced math.) I'm so tired of going around & around in circles trying to choose a math curriculum & second guessing myself! Honestly I don't know how to choose the best math program. No matter what I choose I will be supplementing with Life of Fred. (He is loving Life of Fred fractions & has done 16 chapters without me assigning them, including the problems! Although he did get frustrated on the last one when he missed 2 problems on the Bridge. He had to do a third bridge & passed on that one.) Here's what I would like in a pre-algebra (and beyond) math curriculum: Prepares him well for high school and college math, in other words is rigorous enough. Prepares him to do well on the college boards. Teaches him to understand math - not just the "how" but the "why" also and any shortcuts that make math easier. Makes it "click" for him. Shows him real-world applications for algebra, trig, geometry, calculus, etc. For example, I did okay in trig in school but I didn't get what it meant, or how was it used. I didn't get it until I worked for a company that make integrated circuits & saw the design engineers using the trig that I had learned in high school. Ideally would like to use the same curriculum from pre-algebra on (but not a necessity if all the other factors exist) Easy to use for student & teacher - as hands-off as possible for me, tho' I don't mind refreshing along with him a little bit (for example viewing lectures w/ him) Video lectures (or white board lectures as in TT) would be nice if they enhance understanding. Thanks for any input or insight you can give. Especially on how to choose a math curriculum (I don't have time for lengthy reading). Yes I did do a search on here. It didn't seem to get me anywhere. Just in circles again. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I really like Kinetic Books for math. I've only used their Algebra I and Algebra II. They do have a Prealgebra program now and it looks like they just released their Geometry program as well. It's a lot less expensive than Teaching Textbooks, but you don't have anything to sell at the end. The Math Mammoth author did a nice review of KB Algebra I soon after it was released. http://homeschool.kineticbooks.com/ http://www.homeschoolmath.net/reviews/kinetic_books_algebra_1.php I wanted to use KB Prealgebra with my youngest last year, but she wouldn't have anything to do with any math program that was on the computer. I'm still floundering around trying to figure out what to use for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.m Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Saxon is very different at the middle grade levels than it is for the elementary levels. We use it and my DD understands math outside the context of Saxon. Saxon is very inexpensive and you can get teaching DVDs to go with it. Although, we have not needed them up to this point since the book teaching is very clear. Really every math curriculum gets bad reviews. I think the more popular it is the more likely it is to have its foes. It makes it difficult to pick. I go with what I think will work best for my children and from reviews of friends I know have properly used the curriculum all the way through. They have children who have graduated and made it to college. That to me is more of a testimony than some online reviews. :) Fortunately, we have a number of decent choices! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 To follow MM, my current short list for Prealgebra includes Russian Math 6, the Dolciani Prealgebra (I have the '85 and the '73, LOL) and AoPS Prealgebra (which will be out next month). (I also have Lial's Prealgebra, Lial's BCM, and a few random prealgebras - an Addison-Wesley from the early 80's, a Holt, and more...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 You just need to decide what is best for your child and not worry about what other people say. Everyone has their own preferences and you can find something good and something bad about any curriculum out there. I know it is incredibly hard if you can't look at the books or some example pages of the books before you buy them...hence my curriculum junkie problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 One of the programs that Maria Miller recommends is Prentice-Hall. I picked up an old PH pre-algebra book on-line for about $4 (including shipping). I figured it was worth it just to be able to actually look it over to make a decision. I don't know if you can borrow or buy (cheaply) some of the things that you'd like to look over, but it helps me. Sometimes you can download enough of a free sample to get a better feel for a program. I also have MUS and Lial's and some day soon I'll sit down with all of them to choose the best fit for my son. I have only invested about $40 for all three of these. If I don't use one, I can resell it or use it for younger children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 My kids have all been ready for algebra after Horizons 6, so I completely disagree that it doesn't teach them the why behind what they are doing. That is something that is often posted on this forum and I just scratch my head b/c I have to wonder what books they have been teaching. It does not simply teach how. FWIW, AO is actually not a homeschool targeted curriculum. It has been around like Abeka and BJU and was used by private Christian schools prior to marketing their products to homeschoolers. As far as what to use, it is going to depend on the needs of your kids. My kids have not been emotionally ready for a high school textbook after Horizons 6.....it is a huge leap in presentation of material. Since the the pre-alg is new, it wasn't available to me over the past 11 yrs for my kids after they have each finished H6. I used MUS's alg and geo as pre-alg/pre-geo and have followed that yr with Foersters. Foersters has provided a strong foundation for my kids. It is what my oldest used to prepare him for a chemical engineering profession. It is what prepared my younger ds to jump directly into AoPS math w/o any difficulty. (He jumped from Foerster's alg 2 into AoPS alg 3). AoPS is definitely a different approach than Foersters and I am glad I made the switch for this ds. AoPS is more math theory where Foersters is more applied math (definitely 100s of real world word problems.) AoPS develops different mathematical areas than a text like Foersters. A transition to Lials like someone else suggested would be another alternative. My kids would have despised doing BCM b/c they have been ready for alg and have not needed any more review of elementary math. But for a child that might need another yr to solidify concepts, it would be a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 A transition to Lials like someone else suggested would be another alternative. My kids would have despised doing BCM b/c they have been ready for alg and have not needed any more review of elementary math. But for a child that might need another yr to solidify concepts, it would be a good choice. Or, for a child that would despise doing another review of elementary math but still might need a bridge to Algebra, Lial's Prealgebra could be a good choice. It's just one step up from BCM, but not as big a step as going straight into full-on Algebra. It already has a lot of simple Algebra built-in that BCM does not have or does not spend almost any time on, definitely a middle ground. Again, depends on the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carla in CNY Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 What did your son use for math last year? I would stick with that for one more year - provided it will cover appropriate 7th grade math topics. I think the worst thing to do is to switch curriculum every year in math. These programs are designed to build on learning from the previous year, and unless your son was failing math last year (which I doubt if you're wanting pre-algebra) then he'll be better off staying in that same program. In high school it's a good time to change to a different curriculum if you want. In the middle school years stick with one program the whole time. No one program is ever perfect, but I'd be more worried about the particular curriculum chosen for high school and the consistency in the earlier years. Personally, I like Saxon and my kids (who are math whizzes) also like Saxon. But that doesn't make it the best for your family. -Carla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 It's a matter of age here, dd will be 10 when she finishes Horizons 6, I'm not sure 10 is a good age to start Algebra... I have had kids complete Foersters at 10. It is really going to depend on the student. Some kids are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I'd be cautious about taking as gospel comments made about a product by a competitor. I have read *many* positive reviews from TT users, not only about how much their dc liked it but also how well those dc did on standardized tests and later in college (and IRL). If TT looks good to you, then you should use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Pip Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 HI Sherri! I was going to ask you last night what you were using for pre-alg, but ran out of time:) If you like Horizons and are comfortable with the format, it might be worth sticking to for one more year (I don't know what their plans are for future levels). Since you are using LoF, too, you probably have all of your bases covered (and then some). I don't know, pre-alg scares me, lol! Thank goodness there are a ton of videos and hands-on activities online to help with that. I know there is one website that allows you to set up your algebraic equations using blocks, so you can see what is really going on. Khan Academy has great videos - I have already used them to understand fractions and long division. They also have a badge program (free!) where you can watch the videos, solve the problems, and earn a badge for each section mastered. Just another option, in case you find the explanations lacking in whatever you pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have had kids complete Foersters at 10. It is really going to depend on the student. Some kids are ready. We used Dolciani (Algebra: Structure and Method, book 1), but had the same experience -- ds finished Horizons 6 at 9 and was basically able to move directly into Algebra. He *did* complete several of the Key To Algebra books around the time he was finishing Horizons 6, and he found those a helpful introduction. ... We had also done a variety of supplements along the way, but Horizons was always our math "spine". I do wonder at the difference between 8FtH's and my experience with Horizons vs other reports. I've come to think that maybe we're just more comfortable teaching conceptually? Certainly for my kids, I've been very happy with Horizons' elementary program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I'd be cautious about taking as gospel comments made about a product by a competitor. Technically, she's not a competitor at that level. Maria Miller doesn't have a pre-algebra program, nor does she plan to write one, because at that level she thinks students should use real text books written by math professors who eat, drink, and breathe math all day. Of course, we shouldn't take as gospel anything anyone says (except the writers of the Gospels ;) ). I agree with that point. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Have you looked into the Art of Problem Solving (AOPS). They are coming out with a pre-algebra book at the end of August. They have a more than complete middle school / high school math curriculum through Calculus. When I looked at the high school boards, a lot of the kids who are going to be math or science majors are using AOPS. http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have the Horizons Pre-Algebra book and will be pairing it with Singapore Discovering Math 1. The goal is to stretch out pre-algebra over 2 years and to really solidify both the why's with Singapore and to make sure my DD's grasp of arithmetic is rock-solid before she moves on to the secondary math sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txhomemom Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have been looking at Prealgebra myself for my dd for the next school year. I think you should consider Lial's or Chalkdust Prealgebra as these are pretty solid preparations. I don't know that much about Teaching Textbooks since we have not used it, but I don't know why everyone things it does not have adequate preparation in math, maybe if you are going to be an engineer or something, not sure on that one. Chalkdust does not have to be expensive you can get used copies of the book through Ebay, Amazon, etc and also used copies of the video instruction. There is a thread on here somewhere about how to look up the ISBNs. I will see if I can find it for you. I have also considering using the Key To Algebra books for Prealgebra since they start at a very basic level and we are currently using the other Key to Books so it would just be a continuation of what we are doing. The problem that I have had is that my dd does not want computer based instruction so cool stuff like Videotext, Kinetic Books, and Teaching Textbooks are out. With Chalkdust or Lial's the textbooks can be used without videos, but then you have the choice to use video instruction if you ever need it (like if your child kids stuck on a particular type of math problem). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txhomemom Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Here is the link for the thread about Chalkdust Prealgebra ISBNs: Chalkdust Prealgebra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil413 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Well, I have been in the same turmoil as you, but I have decided to go with Horizons this year. We are familiar with it and if Horizons 6 prepares the kids to go into Algebra, then a year of pre-algebra with them will be good for my son since he is not as strong in it as my daughter. I was told by more than one that we could jump into Algebra and just take it slower if need be. I used Jacobs Algebra with my daughter and we really liked it. The review on Math Mammoth said that only on a few topics, she thought it did not expand the concept to include more difficult problems, but I don't think it necessarily needed to in the examples spoken of. Foerster's Algebra has received very high reviews, but my daughter loved the humor in Jacob's book. It made math enjoyable. Horizons pre-algebra didn't exist when my daughter got to that point so I tried Saxon 8/7 with my daughter and couldn't stand it. Having been a high school math teacher, I can't recommend it because of 2 things. I never knew which concepts we were working on and there were only 2 to 5 problems on the new concept that was just taught. My daughter hated that year. I do have to say that it's drills are an excellent way to review though. It didn't look like the 1/2 was any different in the areas I mentioned. I know some really love Saxon, but that was not our case. Good luck to you. Horizons has done a great job so far and they have pages throughout of people in real life using it in their jobs as well as SAT review problems. Lastly, you know your child best and what will work for him. ;) I hope this helps. Lots of prayer and go with whatever you feel peace about. Blessings, Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 We are enjoying Horizons Pre-Algebra. I like how they introduce a real life person and how that person uses math as part of the job, and then includes word problems related to that person's situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'd encourage you to look at programs and evaluate them per your teaching style and your student's learning style, and not take one article's word for it that all homeschool math curriculum should be written off. There are posts all the time about kids doing great in college math after doing a hs math curriculum. I just don't think I can agree with that statement, it's too much of a generalization, jmo! As for a program that will do a great job of explaining why and how, MUS pre-algebra was great for my son after finishing Horizons 6. We looked at several options (including TT--I concluded the same as you, that it probably moved too slowly for my son, plus he didn't enjoy the presentation when I showed him samples online). Hope you find a good program for your family! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in MI Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well, I have been in the same turmoil as you, but I have decided to go with Horizons this year. We are familiar with it and if Horizons 6 prepares the kids to go into Algebra, then a year of pre-algebra with them will be good for my son since he is not as strong in it as my daughter. I was told by more than one that we could jump into Algebra and just take it slower if need be. I used Jacobs Algebra with my daughter and we really liked it. The review on Math Mammoth said that only on a few topics, she thought it did not expand the concept to include more difficult problems, but I don't think it necessarily needed to in the examples spoken of. Foerster's Algebra has received very high reviews, but my daughter loved the humor in Jacob's book. It made math enjoyable. Horizons pre-algebra didn't exist when my daughter got to that point so I tried Saxon 8/7 with my daughter and couldn't stand it. Having been a high school math teacher, I can't recommend it because of 2 things. I never knew which concepts we were working on and there were only 2 to 5 problems on the new concept that was just taught. My daughter hated that year. I do have to say that it's drills are an excellent way to review though. It didn't look like the 1/2 was any different in the areas I mentioned. I know some really love Saxon, but that was not our case. Good luck to you. Horizons has done a great job so far and they have pages throughout of people in real life using it in their jobs as well as SAT review problems. Lastly, you know your child best and what will work for him. ;) I hope this helps. Lots of prayer and go with whatever you feel peace about. Blessings, Lori Thank you Lori. Your input on Jacobs was very helpful. I have thought for years that it is the one I want to use for Algebra. I think my very intelligent, creative, silly, story loving son will like it very much. I had a great text and a great teacher for pre-algebra in 8th grade & it made me love math for the first time & I got all "A"s. Presentation matters not more than getting the job done, but almost as much. To me anyway. And I think to my son as well. Your input on Saxon was helpful too. I've never liked it for some reason I can't explain. I never considered just jumping into Algebra after Horizons 6. I didn't know that was possible. I will give that some thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in MI Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) Thanks everyone for your input. You shared a few suggestions I hadn't considered including just going straight into Algebra from Horizons 6, & one or two curriculum I hadn't heard of or considered before. Thanks! Edited August 10, 2011 by Sherri in MI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Check this out: http://www.lucideducation.com/Prealgebra.php I think it fits nearly all of your criteria. And Derek Owens is fabulous. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I will take the opportunity to repeat two points already made. 1) Find something you can stick with from here out. 2) Saxon at this level changes dramatically from earlier levels. At this stage Saxon changes to more of what you probably saw in school, at least in terms of layout. So far, I've been able to let my ds read the very brief lessons himself, ask questions, and move to the problems offered. There are three sections of problems, the Warm-Up, Lesson Practice, and Mixed Practice. I'm a firm believer in proving math understanding through repetition. In all, each level might present 40-50 problems and I ask ds to complete every single one. We discuss any he misses and I lead him to find the error. I will add that Saxon offers two paths to Algebra. Of course they have their pre-Algebra book but they also have a substitute for those that need a bit of help. 8/7 offers that help and if completed you skip over pre-Algebra and move straight to Algebra 1. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.m Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I will add that Saxon offers two paths to Algebra. Of course they have their pre-Algebra book but they also have a substitute for those that need a bit of help. 8/7 offers that help and if completed you skip over pre-Algebra and move straight to Algebra 1. I'm reading your comment as if 8/7 is somewhat of a remediated path to Algebra 1. 8/7 is the recommended path according to Saxon's Website and not meant only for those that need a bit of help. I have both texts because I considered skipping 8/7 for DD. But after some research and looking through both texts I decided 8/7 is the right course to prepare her for Alg. 1. Alg. 1/2 is our fall-back if she needs more practice before moving on. (additionally I heard a rumor that they are phasing out Alg. 1/2 :confused:) Now that we are well into the text, I know I made the correct choice. From Saxon's website: What do you recommend for students after they have completed Math 7/6? The recommended path after finishing Math 7/6 is to take Math 8/7. If your child finishes Math 8/7 with at least 80% mastery, skip ahead to Algebra 1. In previous editions, many people skipped Math 8/7 because they found it to be a weaker text than Algebra ½. In newer editions, pre-algebra content has been added to Math 8/7, making it a much stronger program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 If pre-algebra is a time of solidifying arithmetic knowledge and a gentle introduction to algebra, perhaps you could do that without a full 'program'. I would imagine since you like LOF, you could do that... perhaps throwing in some SM CWP, Keys to..., Zaccaro... whatever cool materials you've always wondered about. Just make it a fun get-ready-for-algebra time. Then start Jacobs (or whatever Algebra you like). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 According to Art Reed, who worked directly with John Saxon... Successful completion of the third or fourth edition of Math 76 means the student can proceed to either Math 87, second or third edition, or directly to the second or third edition of Algebra 1/2. Whether the student proceeds to Math 87 or Algebra 1/2 will depend upon their final five or six test scores in Math 76. To successfully skip Math 87 and move directly to Algebra 1/2, students must receive eighty or better in their last five or six tests in either the third or fourth edition of Math 7/6. This would be the score taken from their first time being tested. Art is big on sticking with the editions issued prior to Saxon being sold to the big publishers and sold again on several occassions. It's impossible to say what they will change in order to squeeze out a bit more profit. They are in the process of revamping the books. I'd rather stick with the tried and true. Math is math. Find what works for your student and stick with it. I went ahead and purchased the full set from 54 through the end from Rainbow at very reasonable price. As far as I'm concerned I am done with planning math. I did buy both 87 and 1/2, giving us the option of going either way or using either for supp. material. Since I was buying many years of material the extra $50-60 bucks didn't both me. Plus, I have another ds to go. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbie Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I struggled with this choice too. DD completed MM6, doing LOF Pre-A Biology last year. She's doing LOF Pre-A Economics over the summer. Our plan is to use Foerster and LOF Algebera together next year and throw in some challenging word problems (Primary Mathmatics 6). I doubt we will get through the whole all of that in the school year. That's ok w/me. I'm not sure what this will look like or how to schedule it. In fact, that's why I got on the board today, to ask for suggestions! BTW, I think Foerster would be sufficient. But, we hate to give up Fred. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in MI Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 HI Sherri! I was going to ask you last night what you were using for pre-alg, but ran out of time:) If you like Horizons and are comfortable with the format, it might be worth sticking to for one more year (I don't know what their plans are for future levels). Since you are using LoF, too, you probably have all of your bases covered (and then some). I don't know, pre-alg scares me, lol! Thank goodness there are a ton of videos and hands-on activities online to help with that. I know there is one website that allows you to set up your algebraic equations using blocks, so you can see what is really going on. Khan Academy has great videos - I have already used them to understand fractions and long division. They also have a badge program (free!) where you can watch the videos, solve the problems, and earn a badge for each section mastered. Just another option, in case you find the explanations lacking in whatever you pick. Thanks for the suggestions Sarah! The algebra tiles sound intriguing & I'll have to check out Khan Academy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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