S/O Damage to Children of Divorce

[Cassy]

If a man left his wife for another woman and demanded a divorce, then his teenage daughter refused to be in the presence of the other woman, would a therapist ever advocate that the child should be left out of family get-togethers (ie at a grandparents house) rather than requiring that the 'other woman' not attend?

[Julie in CA]

Yes.

[Carol in Cal.]

The OP sounded like she was talking about excluding the teen.

IMO, that's unacceptable.

[YLVD]

I'm not a therapist so I don't know what a therapist would say, but I don't think the other woman should be asked not to attend. I think it's ok to give the teen the option of not going (if possible).

 

:iagree:

[Joanne]

If a man left his wife for another woman and demanded a divorce, then his teenage daughter refused to be in the presence of the other woman, would a therapist ever advocate that the child should be left out of family get-togethers (ie at a grandparents house) rather than requiring that the 'other woman' not attend?

 

Well, in court, you have 2 types of professional testimony. You have one that a witness, who has had a professional relationship with at least one of the parties and is being called by one of the attornies. They are "free" to speak to the speciifcs, and will have to be cross examined by the other attorney.

 

There is also expert testimony - a mental health professional hired by at least one of the parties to testify on general clinical ideas, theories, etc.

 

In the case as described, the teen would likely be appointed a guardian ad litem that will represent the child's best interest. How much say a teen gets in terms of visitation and custody varies by state, and even within states, by Judge.

 

To address the issue personally, and not legally, the natural consequence of a parent who has had an affair is that children may be reluctant to be involved in the life of that parent. However, it is also a situation that is prime for manipulation by the spouse that was cheated on. It becomes terribly complicated and convoluted very quickly.

 

(PS: Many therapists avoid going to court on these issues if they can)

[Danestress]

The OP sounded like she was talking about excluding the teen.

IMO, that's unacceptable.

 

In the OP's example. I think the hypothetical scenario was that the teens say, "I won't go if Step-Mom is going to be there" and the question is, do other family members shrug and say, "We will miss having you there" or call the new wife and tell her she isn't allowed to come.

[Scarlett]

In the OP's example. I think the hypothetical scenario was that the teens say, "I won't go if Step-Mom is going to be there" and the question is, do other family members shrug and say, "We will miss having you there" or call the new wife and tell her she isn't allowed to come.

 

This is how I read it too. Except I didn't get that the man had married his adultery partner.

[Scarlett]

If a man left his wife for another woman and demanded a divorce, then his teenage daughter refused to be in the presence of the other woman, would a therapist ever advocate that the child should be left out of family get-togethers (ie at a grandparents house) rather than requiring that the 'other woman' not attend?

 

I have to wonder what kind of grandparents would invite 'the other woman' to their home.

 

How much time has passed since the affair/divorce/destruction of teens family?

[twoforjoy]

I'm not a therapist, but it's hard for me to imagine a therapist suggesting to a family that a step-parent should be banned from family occasions so that a teenager would feel comfortable going, absent some sort of history of abuse or mistreatment. As unfair as it may seem, I think the therapists job would be to help the teen adjust to the situation. That may mean declining invitations to family events for a time, but assuming that this woman is going to be in the teen's life for the long haul, I imagine the goal of most therapists would be to help the teen figure out a way to deal with their feelings about the divorce and the step-parent, rather than asking the family to say the step-mother is unwelcome at family events.

[Scarlett]

I'm not a therapist, but it's hard for me to imagine a therapist suggesting to a family that a step-parent should be banned from family occasions so that a teenager would feel comfortable going, absent some sort of history of abuse or mistreatment. As unfair as it may seem, I think the therapists job would be to help the teen adjust to the situation. That may mean declining invitations to family events for a time, but assuming that this woman is going to be in the teen's life for the long haul, I imagine the goal of most therapists would be to help the teen figure out a way to deal with their feelings about the divorce and the step-parent, rather than asking the family to say the step-mother is unwelcome at family events.

 

OP, did the teen's father marry this adultery partner?

[Cassy]

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

[coffeegal]

If a man left his wife for another woman and demanded a divorce, then his teenage daughter refused to be in the presence of the other woman, would a therapist ever advocate that the child should be left out of family get-togethers (ie at a grandparents house) rather than requiring that the 'other woman' not attend?

 

Before or after marriage? IMHO if the other woman is not a step parent, just a girlfriend, it would be reasonable to not invite her to family get-togethers. If the man and other woman got married, turning her into a step-parent, then she should be included in all family get-togethers.

[hana]

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

 

But, from my understanding, she wasn't excluded--she chose not to attend. Definitely a hurtful situation, but I don't see it as the child being excluded.

[Cassy]

But, from my understanding, she wasn't excluded--she chose not to attend. Definitely a hurtful situation, but I don't see it as the child being excluded.

 

Yes, I can see that. It didn't look like much of a choice at the time though, the wounds were all so fresh and raw.

[AK_Mom4]

And.... in the scheme of things, seeing your children generally trumps seeing your grandchildren. Sorry, OP - this would burn my buttons, too. But this is set up as a taking-sides issue and Granny sort-of has to side with her son.

 

This is why I hate divorce-situations. They are always a no-win for everyone involved.

[Joanne]

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

 

My guess, as a therapist, is that Dad, in the heated throes of his new love, manipulated the therapist and/or twisted what the therapist said in order to get his way.

[RanchGirl]

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

 

I'm sure that you can find a therapist to say anything, or the dad could have made it up. Either way, I would 100% side with the teen girl being included and the home wrecker being excluded. What a louse of a father to pull a stunt like that. I'm sure that girl will never forget how he and Granny treated her.

[Farrar]

I agree that the teenage daughter is the one choosing not to come. And giving in to that would, indeed, be giving her too much power. It doesn't surprise me at all that the father's therapist pushed him to make sure his new wife would be there.

 

It may not be right that the father left the mom, but that's not for the daughter to decide. Nor is it for us to decide really.

 

FYI, my step-sister acted this way about my mother when she and her husband first married. My sister couldn't accept that her father was with someone new (though her parents had been separated for a long time when they got together). Her father absolutely spent time with her alone as well, but he insisted that my mother be included for family things despite the drama it caused in the short term. She got over it. Many years later... they have a wonderful relationship now.

[Tammyla]

My feelings are that he may have told Granny a whopper...My therapist said...bla, bla, bla sounds better than say, I'm selfish and want things my way.

 

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I can imagine how hurt your niece felt. It sounds like the grandmother was put in a really bad spot. I have the impression that she was questioning the wisdom of her son bringing his girlfriend to the gathering and he talked/manipulated her into not causing a fuss about it. She may regret that decision and I feel bad for her because she should never have been put in that position by her selfish son. I hope your niece has been treated better since.

[kchara]

There is no excuse for what that father did. He essentially chose his girlfriend (and later wife) over his daughter. Inexcusable, IMO. I've had that done to me... twice. It's not a matter of a teenager not having too much power. It's more of a father assuring his daughter in the midst of a life changing event that she is still his daughter, no matter what, and he still loves her.

[Scarlett]

I agree that the teenage daughter is the one choosing not to come. And giving in to that would, indeed, be giving her too much power. It doesn't surprise me at all that the father's therapist pushed him to make sure his new wife would be there.

 

It may not be right that the father left the mom, but that's not for the daughter to decide. Nor is it for us to decide really.

 

FYI, my step-sister acted this way about my mother when she and her husband first married. My sister couldn't accept that her father was with someone new (though her parents had been separated for a long time when they got together). Her father absolutely spent time with her alone as well, but he insisted that my mother be included for family things despite the drama it caused in the short term. She got over it. Many years later... they have a wonderful relationship now.

 

It wasn't a new wife. It was an adultery partner.

 

And leaving your spouse for another is always wrong. Always.

[momma aimee]

The OP sounded like she was talking about excluding the teen.

IMO, that's unacceptable.

 

I agree the teen is family -- the mistress needs to stay out of her (teen's) way NOT the other way around.

 

the teen was excluded -- the father choose the mistress over the daughter

 

a theprist that stated that the teen should be excluded should 1. be fired. and 2 have a letter of complaint written to the state liscening board and 3. have a letter of complaint written to his / her "boss" (clinic mananger, etc) -- it is entirely unaccpeteable to place the blame of the teen for the father's choice.

 

i did this for 10+ years, I'd be livid to hear such crappy advice -- is the theropist the mistress in question?

[Scarlett]

I agree the teen is family -- the mistress needs to stay out of her (teen's) way NOT the other way around.

 

the teen was excluded -- the father choose the mistress over the daughter

 

a theprist that stated that the teen should be excluded should 1. be fired. and 2 have a letter of complaint written to the state liscening board and 3. have a letter of complaint written to his / her "boss" (clinic mananger, etc) -- it is entirely unaccpeteable to place the blame of the teen for the father's choice.

 

i did this for 10+ years, I'd be livid to hear such crappy advice -- is the theropist the mistress in question?

 

:iagree:

 

The problem was not the teen having too much 'power'....but rather being put in the situation of having more morals and sense than her father! (and grandmother apparently) No teen should have to say, 'um, Dad can you not bring your adultery partner to dinner at Grandmothers so that I can go in peace?'

 

That is nuts.

[Joanne]

I agree the teen is family -- the mistress needs to stay out of her (teen's) way NOT the other way around.

 

the teen was excluded -- the father choose the mistress over the daughter

 

a theprist that stated that the teen should be excluded should 1. be fired. and 2 have a letter of complaint written to the state liscening board and 3. have a letter of complaint written to his / her "boss" (clinic mananger, etc) -- it is entirely unaccpeteable to place the blame of the teen for the father's choice.

 

i did this for 10+ years, I'd be livid to hear such crappy advice -- is the theropist the mistress in question?

 

Wow. You are assuming a lot.

 

You are also advocating a very serious intervention based on those assumptions.

[Ohdanigirl]

 

FYI, my step-sister acted this way about my mother when she and her husband first married. My sister couldn't accept that her father was with someone new (though her parents had been separated for a long time when they got together). Her father absolutely spent time with her alone as well, but he insisted that my mother be included for family things despite the drama it caused in the short term. She got over it. Many years later... they have a wonderful relationship now.

This is very different than what the op mentioned. I am sorry, but if you payed a hand in spitting up a family, don't be surprised when you are not welcomed by them. She is the one that needs t put up with the famly that was already there. I have raised two bil, and it is clear that any other girlfriend-woman will not be put over their children in my home. If that were ever to happen. I guess we would have to see if they got married.

[Crimson Wife]

If I were the grandmother, I would not include the "other woman" unless she were officially engaged or married to the son. If she's just a girlfriend, then she's not family yet, while the granddaughter is.

 

If the "other woman" were a fiancee/wife, then I would tell my granddaughter to come earlier and my son to come later. That way the granddaughter would have the chance to visit with the relatives & leave before her dad & stepmom (or stepmom-to-be) arrive.

[Cassy]

is the theropist the mistress in question?

 

I've wondered something along these lines too - she's not a therapist, but I wonder if someone close to her is the person who gave this advice.

 

Thank you everyone for your take on this, it's been something that has bothered me on and off ever since it happened, and I've often wondered whether it was just me who felt it was a horribly cruel thing to do. At the time I couldn't help feeling that it was totally inappropriate to be seeing this woman rather than my niece who I'd known all her life and loved dearly. My niece did try to come to the event, because she wanted to be with us and our boys, but had to call her mother to pick her up and left in tears. She was 13 at the time, and her father made no secret of the fact that he left his wife because he wasn't getting any s*x, I could totally understand why my niece felt incredibly uncomfortable in this woman's presence. Now that BIL and his woman are married my niece has no problems being around them, and has even lived with them briefly. At the time it was just more than she could cope with and I couldn't understand how Granny could let her get so hurt by someone who had been so selfish. I still don't get it at all.

 

Thanks again for 'talking' this through with me.

 

Cassy

[Plucky]

If I were the grandmother, I would not include the "other woman" unless she were officially engaged or married to the son. If she's just a girlfriend, then she's not family yet, while the granddaughter is.

 

If the "other woman" were a fiancee/wife, then I would tell my granddaughter to come earlier and my son to come later. That way the granddaughter would have the chance to visit with the relatives & leave before her dad & stepmom (or stepmom-to-be) arrive.

 

Good compromise. I also wouldn't have a girlfriend that broke up the marriage over my grandchild. Marriage does change things, girlfriends sometimes come and go.

[momma aimee]

I've wondered something along these lines too - she's not a therapist, but I wonder if someone close to her is the person who gave this advice.

 

Thank you everyone for your take on this, it's been something that has bothered me on and off ever since it happened, and I've often wondered whether it was just me who felt it was a horribly cruel thing to do. At the time I couldn't help feeling that it was totally inappropriate to be seeing this woman rather than my niece who I'd known all her life and loved dearly. My niece did try to come to the event, because she wanted to be with us and our boys, but had to call her mother to pick her up and left in tears. She was 13 at the time, and her father made no secret of the fact that he left his wife because he wasn't getting any s*x, I could totally understand why my niece felt incredibly uncomfortable in this woman's presence. Now that BIL and his woman are married my niece has no problems being around them, and has even lived with them briefly. At the time it was just more than she could cope with and I couldn't understand how Granny could let her get so hurt by someone who had been so selfish. I still don't get it at all.

 

Thanks again for 'talking' this through with me.

 

Cassy

 

you are a better person than I Cassy -- I personally would have told the mistress to leave, and allowed the teen to stay -- teen in tears calling mom, I'd stap in and say "you are family, you stay" turn the the mistress "you are not family and are not welcome, you'll need to leave now and not come back"

 

I am not one to back down from a wrong. Just me, i am not so nice.

 

and frankly, again, i am not nice. i simply would not ever allow the woman in my house (as Aunt, sister to the guy or SIL, or granny). end of discussion. Married or not. the man could come, alone, or with any children they might have someday -- but i would not ever allow the woman in my house NOR would i go any place she vas going to be -- talk about sending the message to our kids that cheating is ok and marriage is 'for a time". :glare: "hey there is uncle Bill and his mistress, oh i mean 2nd wife did you know he was with her 3 years before he leaf aunt doris ...." or "there is Sally, she is Uncle bill's misstress, oh I mean wife, he got her as Aunt Doris wasn't ghood enough ...." not the role modle i'd have for my kids.

[Cassy]

and frankly, again, i am not nice. i simply would not ever allow the woman in my house (as Aunt, sister to the guy or SIL, or granny). end of discussion. Married or not. the man could come, alone, or with any children they might have someday -- but i would not ever allow the woman in my house NOR would i go any place she vas going to be -- talk about sending the message to our kids that cheating is ok and marriage is 'for a time". :glare: "hey there is uncle Bill and his mistress, oh i mean 2nd wife did you know he was with her 3 years before he leaf aunt doris ...." or "there is Sally, she is Uncle bill's misstress, oh I mean wife, he got her as Aunt Doris wasn't ghood enough ...." not the role modle i'd have for my kids.

 

Funny you say that, as that's where I'm headed at the moment. I always tried to be a nice a person, but somewhere along the way during the mess of his divorce/remarriage I began to lose patience. I'm currently discovering the delights of being "not a nice person" :D: I guess some of the points you raised above is why this issue has played on my mind all this time.

 

:001_smile: (smile of a "not nice person")

 

Cassy

[Scarlett]

Funny you say that, as that's where I'm headed at the moment. I always tried to be a nice a person, but somewhere along the way during the mess of his divorce/remarriage I began to lose patience. I'm currently discovering the delights of being "not a nice person" :D: I guess some of the points you raised above is why this issue has played on my mind all this time.

 

:001_smile: (smile of a "not nice person")

 

Cassy

 

I think if we would see more of this kind of reaction to divorce via adultery some might think twice before ruining their life. As it is, everyone is fine with whatever anyone else wants to do.

[momma aimee]

I think if we would see more of this kind of reaction to divorce via adultery some might think twice before ruining their life. As it is, everyone is fine with whatever anyone else wants to do.

 

MY POINT

 

as long as cheating is ok, and mistressed are accepted with open arms by family and frined (to the point of shunning the orginal family) and as long as the courts / state allow no-fault divorce -- there is no reason, no support, no social pressure for a person to stick it out when it is tough.

 

"hey i can just get a new wife if this on is depressed, gains weight, stops give it to me nightly ... my life only changes for the better. more s$x with a younger wife, still have all the same freinds, no one really cares, even mom let's her come to Christmas. no loose for me"

 

but i have a real issue with most immoral behavior being socially acceptable

[Scarlett]

MY POINT

 

as long as cheating is ok, and mistressed are accepted with open arms by family and frined (to the point of shunning the orginal family) and as long as the courts / state allow no-fault divorce -- there is no reason, no support, no social pressure for a person to stick it out when it is tough.

 

"hey i can just get a new wife if this on is depressed, gains weight, stops give it to me nightly ... my life only changes for the better. more s$x with a younger wife, still have all the same freinds, no one really cares, even mom let's her come to Christmas. no loose for me"

 

but i have a real issue with most immoral behavior being socially acceptable

 

Me too. And just in case I wasn't clear--I was agreeing with you. :)

[Farrar]

I just think, who I am to judge what went on to break up this marriage. The sketch of this one woman being the evil one doesn't cut it for me. No one but the people in a marriage know a marriage, which is what I always tell myself when people get divorced. And regardless (sorry, I misunderstood that the father had ended up marrying her), this is who he's with now - he's not going to go back to the wife. Do they want to move on or be right? If the daughter chooses not to be around her, so be it. That's tough - for everyone.

[Scarlett]

I just think, who I am to judge what went on to break up this marriage. The sketch of this one woman being the evil one doesn't cut it for me. No one but the people in a marriage know a marriage, which is what I always tell myself when people get divorced. And regardless (sorry, I misunderstood that the father had ended up marrying her), this is who he's with now - he's not going to go back to the wife. Do they want to move on or be right? If the daughter chooses not to be around her, so be it. That's tough - for everyone.

 

It is pretty simple...adultery breaks up marriages. Cheaters tell themselves all sorts of stories about WHY they just HAD to have sex with someone other than their spouse, but the fact is they don't. Nothing that goes wrong in a marriage is justification for adultery. If your marriage is so horrible you just cannot stay in it, then WHY do you need a third party to get out of it?

 

Saying it is morally wrong to leave your spouse for another is not judging.

[Carol in Cal.]

Sorry, I just popped out to take DS to soccer practice. This happened soon after the child's father left her mother, before the divorce. A family dinner had been arranged with aunt, uncle and cousins the child hadn't seen for six months. The child's father wanted the new woman to come, his daughter said she couldn't come if the woman was there. Father then told Granny that his therapist had advised him not to let his daughter control things, that children should never tell adults what to do. Granny complied, even though said child was her eldest grandchild and favourite. This child is my niece, I am still furious and still can't fathom how it was right for her father to tear her world apart and then have her excluded from a family event. Even four years after this happened I'm feel shaky just typing this.

 

Cassy

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

 

 

 

So, here is the thing. It's complicated. Is Granny the father's mom or the mother's? She has to keep the relationship with everyone that she is directly related to.

 

How soon did this happen after the split? It's worse on the father's part if it's soon, not so much if it's a year or more later.

 

Did Granny actually exclude the granddaughter, or did she just include everyone and let the chips fall where they might? If it's the second, then it's not really entirely fair to accuse her.

 

Of course, any way you look at it, the father is a jerk. But that's neither here nor there.

[twoforjoy]

It is pretty simple...adultery breaks up marriages. Cheaters tell themselves all sorts of stories about WHY they just HAD to have sex with someone other than their spouse, but the fact is they don't. Nothing that goes wrong in a marriage is justification for adultery. If your marriage is so horrible you just cannot stay in it, then WHY do you need a third party to get out of it?

 

Then why is the issue the new girlfriend being barred from family events, and not the father? Assuming that she wasn't also married at the time, I'd say that, while both of them participated in adultery, he was the one breaking marriage vows.

 

I just really take issue with the "homewrecker" idea. Personally, if a marriage breaks up because of an affair between a married and an unmarried person, I'm going to put more responsibility on the shoulders of the person who was married, by far. They made a vow that the other person hadn't made.

[2_girls_mommy]

Going by the info given in the 2nd post by OP, that the man was still married to his first wife, had cheated on her with this woman, talked about inappropriate issues in front of his dd about her mother, I would say the man is a jerk. And the grandmother who would side with him over the child is crazy.

 

Yes, a therapist might tell a man that. I have heard of similar stories.

[Scarlett]

Then why is the issue the new girlfriend being barred from family events, and not the father? Assuming that she wasn't also married at the time, I'd say that, while both of them participated in adultery, he was the one breaking marriage vows.

 

I just really take issue with the "homewrecker" idea. Personally, if a marriage breaks up because of an affair between a married and an unmarried person, I'm going to put more responsibility on the shoulders of the person who was married, by far. They made a vow that the other person hadn't made.

 

Because he is her son. Scratching my head at how you can't see that keeping a relationship with your son who has left his wife is not the same as graciously accepting his adultery partner to a family dinner.

 

No one said anything about not putting responsibility on the cheater for his part. No one really said anything about 'blaming' her soley. It is more about not accepting their 'coupling' as 'oh well. whatever floats his boat.'

 

And just because he is invited to dinner (without his adultery partner) doesn't mean his mom/dad/sisters/brother/aunts/uncles should keep their feelings to themselves. I am not talking about bashing him over pie at the dining room table, but in general their disappointment and disapproval should be expressed to him.

[*********]

:iagree:

 

The problem was not the teen having too much 'power'....but rather being put in the situation of having more morals and sense than her father! (and grandmother apparently) No teen should have to say, 'um, Dad can you not bring your adultery partner to dinner at Grandmothers so that I can go in peace?'

 

That is nuts.

 

Scarlett, I couldn't agree more.

 

If I were the grandmother, I would not include the "other woman" unless she were officially engaged or married to the son. If she's just a girlfriend, then she's not family yet, while the granddaughter is.

 

If the "other woman" were a fiancee/wife, then I would tell my granddaughter to come earlier and my son to come later. That way the granddaughter would have the chance to visit with the relatives & leave before her dad & stepmom (or stepmom-to-be) arrive.

 

This is a great idea. The rest of the family needs to find a way to support both the dad and the daughter in this situation.

 

You know what, on second thought, no they don't. The family needs to rally around the daughter, and support her. Dad made his own bad decisions, and if missing a family dinner is the worst of his repurcusssions, I'd be surprised.

[Scarlett]

Scarlett, I couldn't agree more.

 

 

 

This is a great idea. The rest of the family needs to find a way to support both the dad and the daughter in this situation.

 

You know what, on second thought, no they don't. The family needs to rally around the daughter, and support her. Dad made his own bad decisions, and if missing a family dinner is the worst of his repurcusssions, I'd be surprised.

 

I have a good friend who divorced her first husband over another woman. One of the husband's siste said, 'She (otherwoman) will never step foot in my home.' Last I heard she still had not and that has been almost 15 years....cheating husband went on to marry the girlfriend and have a child with her....the sister didn't care.

[texasmama]

If a man left his wife for another woman and demanded a divorce, then his teenage daughter refused to be in the presence of the other woman, would a therapist ever advocate that the child should be left out of family get-togethers (ie at a grandparents house) rather than requiring that the 'other woman' not attend?

 

Haven't read the other replies...

 

I'm thinking that this is not a theoretical question.

 

The issue is whose therapist? The teenage dd's? The man and his new girlfriend's?

 

If I were the teenage dd's therapist, I would tell her that while she is unable to exert any control over whether or not her dad brings new girlfriend to family functions other than letting her dad know her feelings about it, she always has the option of opting out of the get-togethers.

 

If I were the therapist of the man and his new girlfriend, I would advise that the girlfriend lay low and not attend extended family get togethers for a time in deference to the feelings of the teen dd, as well as other family members, most likely. In time, if the relationship continues, the new gf can begin to assimilate into the family. I typically err on the side of the kids in the family of divorce rather than the adults. Adults have made the decisions and have the power. Kids almost always feel powerless so giving a teen the option of not attending a get together would be a way for her to "have a voice", not to change anyone else's behavior or feelings but to give herself choices that she may not perceive she has...and that is a way to balance the loss of power.

 

Sometimes therapists give funky advice, though, so I can't say what "all" therapists would do, just what I might consider in this situation.

 

(And I am a therapist.)

[*********]

I have a good friend who divorced her first husband over another woman. One of the husband's siste said, 'She (otherwoman) will never step foot in my home.' Last I heard she still had not and that has been almost 15 years....cheating husband went on to marry the girlfriend and have a child with her....the sister didn't care.

 

As a child of divorced/remarried parents (I was raised by my father and stepmother after the divorce), as well as a mother and stepmother myself (even though dh and the mother of my stepchildren were never married), I find I can sometimes see divorce/children situations from all angles, when others may have a hard time with that.

[texasmama]

Also, no one truly knows what was presented to any therapist or what advice was given without being there. I'm certain that things I have said to clients have been misrepresented, either intentionally or unintentionally.

[Crimson Wife]

I have a good friend who divorced her first husband over another woman. One of the husband's siste said, 'She (otherwoman) will never step foot in my home.' Last I heard she still had not and that has been almost 15 years....cheating husband went on to marry the girlfriend and have a child with her....the sister didn't care.

 

We are all sinners, and I can't see cutting my brother out of my life completely after the remarriage. I would find a way to be civil to the new wife no matter how much I disapproved of how their relationship started.

 

My cousin and his girlfriend had a baby and didn't marry until their son was 2 years old. Do I exclude them forever because I disapprove of premarital sex?

 

Another relative got convicted of DUI- do I cut him out of my life because I disapprove of drunk driving?

 

Where does it end?

[RanchGirl]

Honestly I dont care where it begins or ends, and I don't care if dad and his new honey feel supported or offended. My only effort would be to support the child whose family was destroyed and make sure she had the support of her extended family in the aftermath of the divorce. It's sad that the "grownups" couldn't let her have that.

[Scarlett]

We are all sinners, and I can't see cutting my brother out of my life completely after the remarriage. I would find a way to be civil to the new wife no matter how much I disapproved of how their relationship started.

 

My cousin and his girlfriend had a baby and didn't marry until their son was 2 years old. Do I exclude them forever because I disapprove of premarital sex?

 

Another relative got convicted of DUI- do I cut him out of my life because I disapprove of drunk driving?

 

Where does it end?

 

She didn't cut him out. And I do believe she was (eventually) civil to the adultery partner. Yes, we are all sinners....and I guess if he marries her then that marriage is a marriage (since between the two of them they destroyed his first marriage). I wonder though where the line is? Where is the line between standing up for rightness/righteousness and being just overboard?

 

At what point, when crossing that line, are you (collective you) condoning the adultery? I struggle with that question....

 

Btw, I am civil to my friend's XH...but it took me a LONG time. He followed me to my car one day after Sunday services and said he missed me and our friendship. I looked at him...smiled sadly and said, 'Well, I"ve stopped wanting to bash your head in with a baseball bat, but I don't think we will ever be like we were.' That was probably 3 years post divorce. About a year after the break-up he apolgized to me and I said, 'The trouble with that is that you have lied so much no one can believe a word coming out of your mouth....but thank you for the apology.'

 

Oh, and he eventually cheated on his adultery partner (by then his wife).

 

Life is tough, and we are all sinners, but I think being too quick to accept adultery trivializes the family institution.

[texasmama]

I wonder though where the line is? Where is the line between standing up for rightness/righteousness and being just overboard?

 

At what point, when crossing that line, are you (collective you) condoning the adultery? I struggle with that question....

 

Life is tough, and we are all sinners, but I think being too quick to accept adultery trivializes the family institution.

 

Addressing these issues snipped from your post...

 

Loving people and continuing to have a relationship with them does not condone unacceptable behavior. I seriously doubt that any adulterous person is unaware of how their close family/friends feel about their situation/choices. If I had a friend/relative in the position of committing adultery and I feared the person would think I was condoning it, I would simply tell them that while I don't condone their choices, I do love them. Any other type of love is conditional. We have all made mistakes.

 

Many people who commit adultery and later divorce don't do so with a cavalier attitude. It may cost them more than is obvious to others. Should it? Maybe. Is it for us to heap on by spending a lifetime showing our disapproval as some have suggested? I don't think anything in the Bible supports that. Quite the contrary. Our battle is not with flesh and blood but with the powers and principalities of darkness, to quote one verse. We miss the point of the cross when we put ourselves in the position to judge. God is well-able to do that.

 

To be clear, I don't personally condone adultery, but it is not the unforgiveable sin, either. Peace to you because I believe I know the source of your pain/struggle.:grouphug:

[kalanamak]

 

ETA Yes, her father married his adultery partner two years later.

 

So, the event is rather more than 2 years down the road? I would think it is time for the girl to accept some direction on what everyone else is doing, i.e. getting along with the new Mrs.

 

One of my biggest peeves about divorce is how it hands the kids too much power (I know, not in all divorces). The "I'm too wounded" ends up as a big attention-grabber. And, like back-injury on L and I vs. non L and I, the pain goes on longer and longer if there is a gain from it, however convoluted.

 

I certainly don't know the situation, but I do not think it impossible that there are situations where the counselor would be giving good advice. However, without being much deeper involved, we would have no way of knowing.