Baby sleep help!! Please!!!

[joyfulhomeschooler]

This is my first time posting int he general board but many of you may know me from the curriculum board.

 

We have a 7 month old baby boy that from the start has been an easy baby. He slept through the night 6-8hrs at 5wks old and continued this pattern every night or almost every night until 5 1/2 months old. I layed him down for his naps awake but sleepy. I would walk him or rock him until he was just closing his eyes and lay him down and he would fuss a little stick his thumb in and be off to sleepy land. Then at 5 1/2 months he slowly started waking up at night earlier and earlier and earlier. I would bring him in our bed at this time and nurse him until we both fell asleep (bad, bad, bad) and before I knew it I turned into the human pacifier. He now wants to nurse every time before falling asleep and as soon as I put him down he wakes up wanting to nurse again. I have tried just walking or rocking him but he just gets mad and pushes against me and cries. He has stopped taking his thumb and won't take a binky either.

 

I am at my wits end. I know it isn't good for either of us to be up so much at night. So against my better judgement today I let him cry it out. TORTURE!!! It goes against every instict I have as a mother, but, there was nothing else I could do and he needs sleep... he took three good naps today only crying for 10 min for two naps and 45 for the other. Then at bedtime he cried for 45 min and fell asleep. It is so sad though, he was so insecure all day and cried when my husband tried to say hello and hold him when he got home from work.

 

Any advice on what to do so that I can have my happy, secure, and well rested baby back would be much appreciated.

[chepyl]

My youngest only slept well if she slept with me until she was 18 months. We put her to bed in her bed, but when she woke up 4 hours later I put her in bed with me and let her nurse back to sleep. She would sleep for another 8 hours. It kept us all sane and she always felt safe and secure. Around 18 months we put her pack n play by our older son's bed (they are 2.5 years apart) she went to sleep when he did and slept for 14 hours.

 

I guess my advice would be to let him nurse when he wants/needs; it might not work if you or your husband are not okay with co-sleeping.

[meggie]

Please know that I am not an expert but I had some major sleep issues with my second child, so I feel your pain. :grouphug:

 

Would it be possible for your husband to help on the weekend? Babies at that age usually know they can't get anything from daddy. If not, could you only feed him once during the night? I had to set up a limit for my second child, "no feeding until after 4am" (or whatever you think is reasonable).

 

Please don't feel guilty about making him cry it out. It was out of desperation and done for self-preservation. I've been there before too. I wish I could be of more help. My oldest and my youngest were good sleepers and whenever they went through a rough patch, I only had to bring them to bed but not nurse them for a few nights until they went back to sleeping. My middle child was very difficult and honestly, I was so sleep deprived that first year I don't even remember the things I did to try and get him to sleep.

 

Looking back on what I've noticed about him, he's always seemed to be a cuddler, but didn't like being held in a cradle position when he wasn't nursing. Even still today, he likes being held with his head on my shoulder and his knees stuck up right in my ribcage. Is there anything like that that you notice?

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[SonshineLearner]

I guess I'm not much help, you said "bad, bad, bad" is that because you can't sleep with him hooked on? For my son, he seriously at around the clock. He had an incredible appetite and at TONS.... Make sure he's getting the last of the milk on one side... so he's getting the filling milk. I needed sleep a few nights and made rice milk bottles, because I didn't want him to have formula. My husband would roll over, feed the bottle and go back to sleep. It helped to have a few good nights, when I only woke up if I was full. Just a thought...

[Dirtroad]

It usually only takes a few days and he will figure out that he needs to sleep. You can't be the pacifier... you can't comfort him all night long... you can only show him the way (even this young).

 

I had to do this with mine. They are all good sleepers, secure, well adapted, and I get to sleep too. So, I am a much nicer Mommy during the day.

 

Hang in there for a few days. It is so tough. DH may be able to help also (as someone already mentioned).

Edited July 3, 2011 by Dirtroad

[msjones]

I believe that each mama knows how much she can handle.

 

If you can do without the sleep and still function sleepily but healthy, keep on nursing at each waking. You'll probably never regret it.

 

But, if you are becoming resentful, depressed, and feeling truly desperate without enough sleep, then, IMO, it's okay to let a baby cry for a few nights to learn to self-comfort.

 

I am aware of and understand the strong opinions about cry-it-out. I am also (personally) aware of just how desperate a new mama can be for sleep.

 

My babies both had to cry for a few nights. I could not function in a healthy, normal manner with very little sleep. That's all there was to it. My babies needed me to sleep.

 

I was achingly miserable hearing them cry.

 

An experienced mother shared an analogy that helped a lot, however. She pointed out that you wouldn't leave a baby out of his car seat because he didn't like it -- when in the car he must be in there for his safety, crying or not. Similarly, for my family's health and well-being, I had to sleep. That meant the babies had to learn to sleep, even if it meant some crying.

 

I held on to that through the crying. Soon enough, my well-fed, plump, happy babies were sleeping 9-11 hours per night. I was a new woman and enjoying motherhood.

 

Do what you need to do for your baby and your family.

[Michelle O. in MO]

I guess my advice would be to let him nurse when he wants/needs.

 

:iagree: I would probably try something like this too. Before sleep nurse him then lay him in his crib, pat him a little, speak soothingly to him, walk out of the room. Wait 5-10 minutes, and if he's crying, go back in pat him a minute and speak soothingly and reassuringly to him, don't pick him up but offer the binky, leave room wait 10-15 minutes and repeat as necessary, each time waiting just a little longer than before. Try doing this for 2-3 days and see if this works.

 

I'm so sorry. I know it's exhausting and stressful.

[Ellie]

Then at 5 1/2 months he slowly started waking up at night earlier and earlier and earlier. I would bring him in our bed at this time and nurse him until we both fell asleep (bad, bad, bad) and before I knew it I turned into the human pacifier.

Why would this be "bad"?:confused: It is what God intended: for mothers to comfort their dc in the very best way possible.

 

My best guess is that he had a growth spurt and needed to nurse more.

 

He now wants to nurse every time before falling asleep and as soon as I put him down he wakes up wanting to nurse again. I have tried just walking or rocking him but he just gets mad and pushes against me and cries. He has stopped taking his thumb and won't take a binky either.

 

And the problem with his wanting to nurse before falling asleep is...?? Why not just sit down and nurse him instead of trying to walk or rock him?

 

I am at my wits end. I know it isn't good for either of us to be up so much at night. So against my better judgement today I let him cry it out. TORTURE!!! It goes against every instict I have as a mother, but, there was nothing else I could do and he needs sleep... he took three good naps today only crying for 10 min for two naps and 45 for the other. Then at bedtime he cried for 45 min and fell asleep. It is so sad though, he was so insecure all day and cried when my husband tried to say hello and hold him when he got home from work.

 

1. See if you can keep him awake more during the day, maybe one long nap around noon instead of three (!) shorter ones.

 

2. Pick a bedtime, somewhere between 7 and 9. Nurse him as long as he wants to, then put him in his bed, and walk away.

 

3. If he wakes later, go get him, take him back to bed with you and nurse him to sleep.

[Plink]

Uggh, I just lost a long reply.

 

Well, the long and short of it was that I think you might like this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/0449004023

 

It has great advice across the spectrum of parenting philosophies, from co-sleeping to cry-it-out and everything in between, so you can find a happy medium that fits your family.

[Starr]

My dd just wouldn't sleep once she was up at night. We finally had to let her cry, 45 minutes one night and 15 th next. It didn't seem stressful for her, just me. :grouphug:

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

:iagree: I would probably try something like this too. Before sleep nurse him then lay him in his crib, pat him a little, speak soothingly to him, walk out of the room. Wait 5-10 minutes, and if he's crying, go back in pat him a minute and speak soothingly and reassuringly to him, don't pick him up but offer the binky, leave room wait 10-15 minutes and repeat as necessary, each time waiting just a little longer than before. Try doing this for 2-3 days and see if this works.

 

I'm so sorry. I know it's exhausting and stressful.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I had troubles with my second child, but eventually I started wondering if she was just still hungry. We also supplemented with formula, and it seems like when she was also able to have a bottle of formula, she did much better.

 

Also, try feeding him, keeping him awake to play for a little bit, then try to get him to sleep.

 

Good luck to you!

[july19]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I don't offer much advice, because my son didn't sleep as a newborn and still doesn't sleep much at almost 5. After all we tried, nothing really ever worked. I'm just here to :grouphug: hug ya!

 

Actually, one quick thing. I like the idea of a previous poster who said to maybe try keeping baby up more in the day and try eliminating some of the naps? Hope you get relief soon!

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

My first slept w/us and nursed at night until 21 months. My second only slept with us for 12 months and then I weaned him and put him in his own room. DD slept in her own room and slept through the night at 8 weeks. By that point I could not deal with her in our bed, so when she went through teething spurts or was affected by allergy medicine I would just deal with nursing her in her room and putting her back down. Sometimes my sleep was disrupted for a month. When the teething passed I let her cry to get her back on track and she was fine until the next teething/medicine issue. My advice is to try to get to the root of the disruption and go with it if there is teething, etc, but then to get the baby back on track when that no longer seems to be an issue. It really depends on how much you can handle and what will keep you sane. I did things so differently. I never would have let my oldest cry. He was a different needy baby. DD started sleeping through the night on her own, so I knew she was capable. Best of luck.

[Skadi]

I think you're doing the right thing. I wouldn't eliminate a nap -- babies his age need three naps, and the daily routine is so, so important for him.

 

It usually only takes three to seven days for the baby to adjust to the new schedule. Don't give up after just one day! He'll be much happier being well-rested than if he continues waking up to nurse. A baby doesn't know what's best for him -- he isn't nursing because he's hungry or because that is the best way to prepare him for sleep. He's just reacting to the environment which has trained him that way. You might want to check out On Becoming Babywise: Giving your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep. It talks a lot about how to create a pattern in which the baby does not associate food or comfort sucking with sleep, and why that it is such an important routine to make. There's also a Book II that deals specifically with five to fifteen month olds, if you're interested. Remember that there is a difference between love and sentiment -- when you love someone, you do what is best for them even if it is hard and might cause temporary distress, while sentiment is excessive indulgence that rises out of a desire to just give comfort in the short term.

 

Best of luck!

[ChristusG]

I believe that babies need their parents around the clock. We always co-sleep with our babies. I've never had a bad night of sleep due to a baby/toddler/child and I believe it is due to this (except, of course, when they are sick). I nurse whenever baby needs and fall right back asleep.

[WistfulRidge]

 

I guess my advice would be to let him nurse when he wants/needs; it might not work if you or your husband are not okay with co-sleeping.

:iagree:

 

My DS stopped taking a pacifier around 3 months. For him pacifiers and bottles meant that mommy was unavailable and that simply just freaked him out. He was a very good sleeper until about 6 weeks but then he became aware enough that he realized that he wasn't with mom and dad while he was sleeping (and that freaked him out as well). We tried a couple nights of just trying to soothe him/nurse him to sleep and putting him back in his own bed, but he'd wake right up in a panic. I was all for co-sleeping, but DH was very skeptical until one night he brought DS in because nothing was working and I was too exhausted to get up. After that, we co-slept. DS simply just needed that extra reassurance of boob+mom+dad with him all night long. By 15 months he was wanting to sleep most of the night on his own and at 17 months he started sleeping completely through the night in his own bed.

[msjones]

I believe that babies need their parents around the clock. We always co-sleep with our babies. I've never had a bad night of sleep due to a baby/toddler/child and I believe it is due to this (except, of course, when they are sick). I nurse whenever baby needs and fall right back asleep.

 

This arrangement is great if it works for everyone in the family. It sounds like your family is a happy family of co-sleepers. It sounds lovely.

 

But people are all different and have different sleep needs. I never had a good night of sleep with a baby or child in my bed. And for some moms, depression and anxiety settle in quickly if they are chronically sleep-deprived. The OP sounds as if she may be one of those moms.

 

I strongly believe that moms need to do what works for them and their bodies. That goes for nursing, co-sleeping, and childbirth. I think we need to be very careful about advice-giving related to these issues.

[MelanieM]

I think you're doing the right thing. I wouldn't eliminate a nap -- babies his age need three naps, and the daily routine is so, so important for him.

 

It usually only takes three to seven days for the baby to adjust to the new schedule. Don't give up after just one day! He'll be much happier being well-rested than if he continues waking up to nurse. A baby doesn't know what's best for him -- he isn't nursing because he's hungry or because that is the best way to prepare him for sleep. He's just reacting to the environment which has trained him that way. You might want to check out On Becoming Babywise: Giving your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep. It talks a lot about how to create a pattern in which the baby does not associate food or comfort sucking with sleep, and why that it is such an important routine to make. There's also a Book II that deals specifically with five to fifteen month olds, if you're interested. Remember that there is a difference between love and sentiment -- when you love someone, you do what is best for them even if it is hard and might cause temporary distress, while sentiment is excessive indulgence that rises out of a desire to just give comfort in the short term.

 

Best of luck!

 

I couldn't disagree more. Babies are biologically wired to need their mothers. Mothers who feel awful about a particular action, and notice a strong negative reaction in their wee babies, should be encouraged to trust their instincts. They're there for a reason. And that book... gah. It's awful.

 

We're a co-sleeping family, and it works for us. However, I understand it doesn't work for everyone and mothers really do need to work on a routine that is supportive of everyone's needs. You baby probably hit a growth spurt or some teething pain which caused a disruption in his sleep patterns. Maybe you can work backwards a bit and try to get back to what was working for you before? I do think there's an in between that doesn't involve all night nursing *or* leaving an infant to cry himself to sleep.

 

Sleepy, happy vibes to you and your wee one.

[melissel]

I strongly believe that moms need to do what works for them and their bodies. That goes for nursing, co-sleeping, and childbirth. I think we need to be very careful about advice-giving related to these issues.

 

I agree, but we don't actually know if the OP has tried anything outside of what she's described here. Co-sleeping with a side-carred crib is the only way I got any nighttime sleep with my firstborn, because she was a very needy, around the clock nurser. My second could (and did) drop off at a moment's notice anywhere, slept through the night at three months old, and weaned herself when she was barely two. My habits with her changed because I was able to adapt them. My first needed a different style.

 

I would also caution that we don't necessarily know how CIO methods affect babies' little brains. The OP described how her baby was insecure and afraid the day after she let him cry himself to sleep. Other people may not have experienced that with their babies--she has. Would you keep doing something that left your baby in that state, or would you maybe give something else a try to avoid it if you could?

 

Joyfulhomeschooler, of course you need to do what you need to do, and if sleep deprivation brings you near psychosis, you MUST address that. But many of us have had babies who nursed to sleep for nearly every bedtime and nap while babies and toddlers, and I highly doubt any of them are ruined for life because of it. Both of my co-sleeping, nurse-to-sleep babies are in their own beds, and neither has any kind of sleep issue because I chose to nurse them down instead of lay them down. It was what was easier for me, for DH, and for them, and it worked fine. Don't beat yourself up because you let the association get started. As someone else said, it seems to be what nature intended, and sometimes it's hard to fight nature!

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[melissel]

I couldn't disagree more. Babies are biologically wired to need their mothers. Mothers who feel awful about a particular action, and notice a strong negative reaction in their wee babies, should be encouraged to trust their instincts. They're there for a reason. And that book... gah. It's awful.

 

:iagree:

[Skadi]

I disagree with attachment parenting, but I don't make it my policy to single out attachment parents and tell them how awful they are. It would be rude, and it certainly wouldn't change anyone's mind. Why can't people simply say, "My parenting philosophy differs from yours" and leave it at that?

[MelanieM]

I disagree with attachment parenting, but I don't make it my policy to single out attachment parents and tell them how awful they are. It would be rude, and it certainly wouldn't change anyone's mind. Why can't people simply say, "My parenting philosophy differs from yours" and leave it at that?

 

I didn't say you are awful. I don't know you, and I can easily assume you're a lovely person. But I most certainly stand by my statement that Babywise is an awful book. My opinion of the book is not a reflection on you, and if you were to say you thought Dr Sears' Baby Book was awful I certainly wouldn't be jumping to the conclusion that you were then saying every fan of the book is awful as well.

[Ellyndria]

If he was insecure, I think that tells you what you need to know.

 

Sleep begets sleep. However, are his naps short (under 45 minutes)? If so, then he's at the age where over the next month or two you might want to transition him to two longer naps (morning and afternoon) instead of three shorter ones.

[lorrainejmc]

What age are babies offered solids where you are? I know advice differs between countries, and here in the UK, advice is different each time you have a baby.:lol:

 

Anyway, the age recommendation for starting solids here is 4-6 months. Even some baby rice/ground rice mixed with formula/breast milk once then twice a day can help baby sleep more contentedly at night, IME. To me it sounds like hunger/growth spurt/ready for solids. :001_smile:

[meggie]

This arrangement is great if it works for everyone in the family. It sounds like your family is a happy family of co-sleepers. It sounds lovely.

 

But people are all different and have different sleep needs. I never had a good night of sleep with a baby or child in my bed. And for some moms, depression and anxiety settle in quickly if they are chronically sleep-deprived. The OP sounds as if she may be one of those moms.

 

I strongly believe that moms need to do what works for them and their bodies. That goes for nursing, co-sleeping, and childbirth. I think we need to be very careful about advice-giving related to these issues.

 

:iagree:Ask me how crazy I went because my son didn't sleep through the night until he was a year old. I don't know if the OP is dealing with any of that, but if things don't change, it's very possible she could be soon. I honestly tried everything I could think of. However, he wasn't a co-sleeper, believe me I tried. I am one of those moms who gets no rest whatsoever sleeping with a baby. But I would have done it if it meant he would have gotten some sleep that way. But he didn't. He wasn't a cry it out type of kid. I don't know how to explain it, but my oldest and youngest were able to cry it out and soothe themselves to sleep after about 3 minutes or so. When my second was crying for over half an hour or over an hour, instinct told me it just wasn't going to work with him. Feeding him solids didn't really work either. He completely rejected them until he was about 9 or 10 months old. Believe me, I tried. And nursing him during the night was no good, he was still up every 1-1.5 hours.

 

Before him, I would have easily said, "Just make him cry it out. Or just nurse him. Or just co-sleep." But shockingly enough, none of those things helped my child. I don't really know what helped. I wish my memory of that time weren't so foggy. Some kids are just different and the standard advice won't work. My advice to the OP is find something that works and whatever it is, go with it.

[melissel]

Sleep begets sleep. However, are his naps short (under 45 minutes)? If so, then he's at the age where over the next month or two you might want to transition him to two longer naps (morning and afternoon) instead of three shorter ones.

 

:iagree: with this as well. Both my girls dropped naps early (and both were done with naps by 2 1/2 :glare:). I remember going through difficult phases with both of them as they transitioned out of soooort of, maaaaaybe needing that nap that was dropped, but not quite being able to get there, or if they could get the nap, that night's sleep was thrown way off. Oh, do I remember those days--babies who normally went to bed at 9 p.m. getting tired and cranky at 9 p.m. but not being able to fall asleep until 11 p.m. It was always a LOVELY two hours :willy_nilly: IN fact, DD5 still does that if she even nods off for a minute in the car for some reason!

 

Anyway:

 

http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sleep/naps.html

 

6 to 12 months: Babies this age usually sleep about 11 hours at night, plus two daytime naps totaling 3 to 4 hours. At this age, most infants do not need to wake at night to feed, but may begin to experience separation anxiety, which can contribute to sleep disturbances.

[HS Mom in NC]

Be sure to nurse until one side is completely drained of both foremilk and hindmilk before switching to the other side.

 

We co-slept and I nursed every 2 hours for the first year. No "mommy substitutes" here (pacifiers, bottles, cribs, sleepy sound toys, etc.)

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Please know that I am not an expert but I had some major sleep issues with my second child, so I feel your pain. :grouphug:

 

Would it be possible for your husband to help on the weekend? Babies at that age usually know they can't get anything from daddy. If not, could you only feed him once during the night? I had to set up a limit for my second child, "no feeding until after 4am" (or whatever you think is reasonable).

 

Please don't feel guilty about making him cry it out. It was out of desperation and done for self-preservation. I've been there before too. I wish I could be of more help. My oldest and my youngest were good sleepers and whenever they went through a rough patch, I only had to bring them to bed but not nurse them for a few nights until they went back to sleeping. My middle child was very difficult and honestly, I was so sleep deprived that first year I don't even remember the things I did to try and get him to sleep.

 

Looking back on what I've noticed about him, he's always seemed to be a cuddler, but didn't like being held in a cradle position when he wasn't nursing. Even still today, he likes being held with his head on my shoulder and his knees stuck up right in my ribcage. Is there anything like that that you notice?

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Yes! He used to love it when I would cradle him and walk him around, he would stick his thumb in and go to sleep. Now he gets mad if I cradle him unless I nurse him.. almost like the associate between cradle hold and feeding makes him mad.

[melissel]

Yes! He used to love it when I would cradle him and walk him around, he would stick his thumb in and go to sleep. Now he gets mad if I cradle him unless I nurse him.. almost like the associate between cradle hold and feeding makes him mad.

 

Do you suspect there might be some kind of issue like GERD? Some babies with GERD like to nurse a lot, because it prevents the acid from coming up. And they don't like to be laid down for the same reason.

 

That said, though, mine both hated it too, and so did the babies of my best friend. We were just talking about this the other day! Frankly though, if he wants to nurse more and you're trying to walk him to sleep, then yes, he might just be getting ticked off because he thinks you're going to nurse him and then no milk appears :D

[Ellie]

I couldn't disagree more. Babies are biologically wired to need their mothers. Mothers who feel awful about a particular action, and notice a strong negative reaction in their wee babies, should be encouraged to trust their instincts. They're there for a reason. And that book... gah. It's awful.

 

We're a co-sleeping family, and it works for us. However, I understand it doesn't work for everyone and mothers really do need to work on a routine that is supportive of everyone's needs. You baby probably hit a growth spurt or some teething pain which caused a disruption in his sleep patterns. Maybe you can work backwards a bit and try to get back to what was working for you before? I do think there's an in between that doesn't involve all night nursing *or* leaving an infant to cry himself to sleep.

 

Sleepy, happy vibes to you and your wee one.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

This arrangement is great if it works for everyone in the family. It sounds like your family is a happy family of co-sleepers. It sounds lovely.

 

But people are all different and have different sleep needs. I never had a good night of sleep with a baby or child in my bed. And for some moms, depression and anxiety settle in quickly if they are chronically sleep-deprived. The OP sounds as if she may be one of those moms.

 

 

 

I am totally that kind of mom ;) I would love to co-sleep... and I think that is what we basically had been doing, the problem is that it keeps me awake. We would fall asleep, he would wake or startle when I moved or if he moved I would wake and then the process would begin all over again. We were waking every hour or more. I have been tired and grumpy with my older two and baby was getting to the point where he wouldn't nap without nursing the whole time too. Unfortunately, I just don't have time to lay down with him and nurse him constantly through his naps because I have two other children who need me. Plus I think I will be able to enjoy this special time in our lives more if I am getting more sleep.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Why would this be "bad"?:confused: It is what God intended: for mothers to comfort their dc in the very best way possible.

Bad because I knew it would lead to bad sleeping habbits.

My best guess is that he had a growth spurt and needed to nurse more.

Growth spurt may have started it but then it began to get worse and worse.. every hour or more at night and he is growing just fine and content to go three hours without nursing in the day. He just wants to comfort himself with it. That would be fine if I didn't have two other kiddos to spend time with and tend to. I really do wish I had all the time to just sit/lay and nurse him through all his naps.... but.. I don't.

 

And the problem with his wanting to nurse before falling asleep is...?? Why not just sit down and nurse him instead of trying to walk or rock him?

No problem, if he would stay asleep. Plus he was getting too full from doing this and spitting up enormous amounts. I think it was causing a tummy ache, he seems to nap better when he doesn't nurse right before hand.

 

 

1. See if you can keep him awake more during the day, maybe one long nap around noon instead of three (!) shorter ones. He sleeps better when not overly tired :) All of my kids are that way. When my five year old gets overly tired she wakes three or more times a night with nightmares. I have to make sure she still gets a rest in the day or she gets too tired. In fact I am that way too lol

 

2. Pick a bedtime, somewhere between 7 and 9. Nurse him as long as he wants to, then put him in his bed, and walk away. This is a good idea... it is what we had been doing and then somehow I started getting kind of rigid about not letting him nurse to sleep. Thanks for setting me back on track :)

 

3. If he wakes later, go get him, take him back to bed with you and nurse him to sleep.

I was doing this and the problem is that we wake eachother up when we fall asleep side by side any movement wakes me up at night, my husband can't even cuddle with me at night. I tried moving him a little away from me after he fell asleep or back to his crib and he would just wake up wanting to nurse again.

[melissel]

I am totally that kind of mom ;) I would love to co-sleep... and I think that is what we basically had been doing, the problem is that it keeps me awake. We would fall asleep, he would wake or startle when I moved or if he moved I would wake and then the process would begin all over again. We were waking every hour or more. I have been tired and grumpy with my older two and baby was getting to the point where he wouldn't nap without nursing the whole time too. Unfortunately, I just don't have time to lay down with him and nurse him constantly through his naps because I have two other children who need me. Plus I think I will be able to enjoy this special time in our lives more if I am getting more sleep.

 

I completely understand if it just won't work for you, but I'd like to make two suggestions here (again, only because I couldn't have done it otherwise). Once my DD8 got to be more than 5-6 months old, all of us in one bed was too difficult too. I took our crib and removed one side, pushing it between the wall and the bed. I had to roll up towels to lift the crib mattress a bit to make it even with the bed, but then when I nursed at night, I could either slide her toward me, then back into the crib when she was knocked out, or more often, I just slid my upper half into the crib, nursed her, then slid myself back out without even touching her.

 

Also, when I nursed her down for naps and bedtime, I did the exact same thing. I was able to wait until she dropped into a deep sleep and unlatched on her own, then walk away. I never had to move her once she was asleep. It was so easy. Not as easy as a baby just sleeping through the night, of course, but the best of all situations for us. And now that this kid is older and I know her personality...I'm so glad I didn't let her CIO. She is a sensitive soul and very, very attached to her mama. Again, you do what you have to to stay sane, but this is what helped me stay sane. In case it's worth anything to you!

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I believe that each mama knows how much she can handle.

 

If you can do without the sleep and still function sleepily but healthy, keep on nursing at each waking. You'll probably never regret it.

 

But, if you are becoming resentful, depressed, and feeling truly desperate without enough sleep, then, IMO, it's okay to let a baby cry for a few nights to learn to self-comfort.

 

I am aware of and understand the strong opinions about cry-it-out. I am also (personally) aware of just how desperate a new mama can be for sleep.

 

My babies both had to cry for a few nights. I could not function in a healthy, normal manner with very little sleep. That's all there was to it. My babies needed me to sleep.

 

I was achingly miserable hearing them cry.

 

An experienced mother shared an analogy that helped a lot, however. She pointed out that you wouldn't leave a baby out of his car seat because he didn't like it -- when in the car he must be in there for his safety, crying or not. Similarly, for my family's health and well-being, I had to sleep. That meant the babies had to learn to sleep, even if it meant some crying.

 

I held on to that through the crying. Soon enough, my well-fed, plump, happy babies were sleeping 9-11 hours per night. I was a new woman and enjoying motherhood.

 

Do what you need to do for your baby and your family.

Thanks! The analogy is perfect.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I completely understand if it just won't work for you, but I'd like to make two suggestions here (again, only because I couldn't have done it otherwise). Once my DD8 got to be more than 5-6 months old, all of us in one bed was too difficult too. I took our crib and removed one side, pushing it between the wall and the bed. I had to roll up towels to lift the crib mattress a bit to make it even with the bed, but then when I nursed at night, I could either slide her toward me, then back into the crib when she was knocked out, or more often, I just slid my upper half into the crib, nursed her, then slid myself back out without even touching her.

 

Also, when I nursed her down for naps and bedtime, I did the exact same thing. I was able to wait until she dropped into a deep sleep and unlatched on her own, then walk away. I never had to move her once she was asleep. It was so easy. Not as easy as a baby just sleeping through the night, of course, but the best of all situations for us. And now that this kid is older and I know her personality...I'm so glad I didn't let her CIO. She is a sensitive soul and very, very attached to her mama. Again, you do what you have to to stay sane, but this is what helped me stay sane. In case it's worth anything to you!

 

This sounds great! How about naps though, after she fell asleep and you left did she have a good long nap?

[LittleIzumi]

Is he nursing every hour at night or just waking as a light sleeper? If he's nursing every hour, it sounds like he's reverse cycling (because it's much nicer to a baby to stay curled up on mom & eat all snuggled up all night), and you may want to try & offer nursing a lot more during the day, and maybe nurse him down in your bed at night & then slip out & sleep on the couch or something for a few nights (so he's in bed but dh can't nurse him :tongue_smilie: and they seem to adjust faster with dad, IME), and then work on transitioning back to his crib when he's used to not nursing all night.

 

If he's just a light sleeper, then yeah, cosleeping will be rough. For daytime & naps you could babywear (where he can nurse & then go to sleep on you while you do things). I will nurse ds to sleep wherever I am in the house at the time & then lay him down on our bed. (We cosleep so that's his bed.) I might try a side-carred crib or mattress if we had room, but we don't.

[melissel]

This sounds great! How about naps though, after she fell asleep and you left did she have a good long nap?

 

Yes, my getting up didn't interfere with naps unless she was having some other problem, like a cold or bad teething. I just remembered, though, that I did let them both sleep on their tummies because they wouldn't stay asleep on their backs no matter what we tried (rolling them on their backs was the surest way to wake both of them up within minutes :glare:). I don't know if that's a factor for you or not, but at 7+ plus months, I'd be comfortable with tummy sleeping either way, personally, and your guy is probably already rolling or close to it!

 

I did do this with my second as well, and my oldest (then 3) watched a little TV or sat in her bed with books for 10-15 minutes or so while I nursed the baby down. It was a time of day I looked forward to, actually, because I could read quietly while the baby nursed laying down and have a bit of rest myself!

 

I hope you find something that works for you. It's not peaches and cream no matter how you decide to go, that's for sure. Babies just want what they want :lol:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[SnowWhite]

There is a wonderful book which saved my sanity when my eldest was an infant and attached to nursing all night long.

 

 

Elizabeth Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solution

 

I think her book will appeal to you because she advocates the same techniques you used early in your baby's life (plus many more, similar techniques), then tells you how to gently "wean" away from the night waking that interrupted your relationship.

 

I will say the opposite from a previous poster... I have found that my children wake more often when they get fewer calories during the day due to having tummies stuffed with slow-digesting less nutrient-rich cereals and baby foods. Then they wake up hungry at night to eat the breastmilk they missed out on during the day! So I try to keep baby food experiences to a tasting and fun (but not stuffing) experiment rather than a main event in baby's life until past a year.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

There is a wonderful book which saved my sanity when my eldest was an infant and attached to nursing all night long.

 

 

Elizabeth Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solution

 

I think her book will appeal to you because she advocates the same techniques you used early in your baby's life (plus many more, similar techniques), then tells you how to gently "wean" away from the night waking that interrupted your relationship.

 

I will say the opposite from a previous poster... I have found that my children wake more often when they get fewer calories during the day due to having tummies stuffed with slow-digesting less nutrient-rich cereals and baby foods. Then they wake up hungry at night to eat the breastmilk they missed out on during the day! So I try to keep baby food experiences to a tasting and fun (but not stuffing) experiment rather than a main event in baby's life until past a year.

 

I am reading the book now lol. I love the idea of it and all of her techniques are ones that come naturally to me. I thought it was a sure way to get him sleeping... seems things were getting worse though not better. The solid idea makes sense... this is something we started right about the time when he began waking more at night. When talking to his doc, he said to offer it twice a day instead of once.... so we have been doing that. I wonder if that is the culprit. I am listening to him babble right now and his little voice is hoarse from all the crying. :(

 

For others who have given the advice of emptying one side all the way. He is definately doing that. I don't think it is a hunger issue. Maybe a calorie one like the above comment mentioned though. I really feel he just wants me there to comfort him when he wakes up. So sweet to be needed like that... but life gets in the way. :(

 

As for the naps... he has been taking a one hour nap in the morning about an hour to hour and a half after waking in the morning and this one usually lasts for one hour. Then he takes an early afternoon nap about an hour and a half after waking from the last one... this one is longer usually about 2 hours. Then about two hours after waking from that one he takes a shorter one in the evening. Lasting about 30-40 minutes. Then about two hours after that he is ready for bed. He has been getting tired at about 6:30 in the evening. So it looks something like this the times differ sometimes.

 

7:30 awake for day

9:00 naps for one hour (nap #1)

11:30 naps for two hours (nap #2)

3:00 or 3:30 naps for 30-40 mins (nap #3).. probably trying to wean

6:30 starts getting fussy and really sleepy. Falls asleep around 7:30pm

 

This is on a good day... he was getting to where he was only sleeping 20 minutes three times a day or less unless I would nurse him back to sleep and keep the nap going this way.

 

Then at night he was waking at 10:30 and nursing to sleep sleeping for 10 minutes and then waking and staying awake until 1:30 blowing raspberries on my arm and trying to eat my face :) then he would go to sleep and wake either every hour from then on or sometimes go two hours.

 

See why I am so sleep deprived and wanting our above schedule back :) When he naps like I listed above he will go five hours at night and then wake every three after that. I can live with that.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Uggh, I just lost a long reply.

 

Well, the long and short of it was that I think you might like this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/0449004023

 

It has great advice across the spectrum of parenting philosophies, from co-sleeping to cry-it-out and everything in between, so you can find a happy medium that fits your family.

 

Maybe I didn't give this book enough of a chance. I started reading it and when I figured it was all about CIO I put it down. I will pick it back up and start again. So far the advice I think will work best for us is to get him used to falling asleep on his own again and then we can do the crib next to the bed thing. I really don't mind him falling asleep nursing as long as he will stay asleep and not wake every hour at night.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I think you're doing the right thing. I wouldn't eliminate a nap -- babies his age need three naps, and the daily routine is so, so important for him.

 

It usually only takes three to seven days for the baby to adjust to the new schedule. Don't give up after just one day! He'll be much happier being well-rested than if he continues waking up to nurse. A baby doesn't know what's best for him -- he isn't nursing because he's hungry or because that is the best way to prepare him for sleep. He's just reacting to the environment which has trained him that way. You might want to check out On Becoming Babywise: Giving your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep. It talks a lot about how to create a pattern in which the baby does not associate food or comfort sucking with sleep, and why that it is such an important routine to make. There's also a Book II that deals specifically with five to fifteen month olds, if you're interested. Remember that there is a difference between love and sentiment -- when you love someone, you do what is best for them even if it is hard and might cause temporary distress, while sentiment is excessive indulgence that rises out of a desire to just give comfort in the short term.

 

Best of luck!

 

I think your advice was good, but I do want to try every other option first :) Thanks for taking the time! You made me feel more comfortable with CIO if I HAVE to go that route.

[LittleIzumi]

Maybe I didn't give this book enough of a chance. I started reading it and when I figured it was all about CIO I put it down. I will pick it back up and start again. So far the advice I think will work best for us is to get him used to falling asleep on his own again and then we can do the crib next to the bed thing. I really don't mind him falling asleep nursing as long as he will stay asleep and not wake every hour at night.

You can also try swaddling him to a degree in a blanket or sheet while you nurse him, and then it's much easier to lay the baby down since it's not a transition from warm mama to cool empty bed space. That works well for ds, who is a very serious mama's boy :lol:.

[SnowWhite]

The "lovey" approach (nice warm blankie or stuffed animal) has really helped me minimize night waking with all three of my boys. Nice segue to sleeping without mama's warm t*tas.

[Ellyndria]

Maybe I didn't give this book enough of a chance. I started reading it and when I figured it was all about CIO I put it down. I will pick it back up and start again. So far the advice I think will work best for us is to get him used to falling asleep on his own again and then we can do the crib next to the bed thing. I really don't mind him falling asleep nursing as long as he will stay asleep and not wake every hour at night.

 

 

I know they do talk about "extinction" or whatever (basically cry it out), *but* I'm pretty sure they were just giving it as an option, not saying you had to do it. I think this book is extremely helpful in learning about baby sleep habits and needs by age. You can ignore the cry it out stuff, and just glean info about sleep needs. :)

 

Also, I remember reading some baby boards around that time, and it seemed like everyone had a "help-my-baby-is-waking-up-every-hour" scenario. My DS did it too around then. Just remember it won't last forever! As soon as we think we've figured out their sleep schedule, they change it on us. :P Some people suggested possible separation anxiety setting in around then, or growth spurts.

 

So it sounds like your DS is not quite ready to drop the third nap, but might be soon. :) His nap schedule sounds very familiar. I remember slowly trying to stretch awake time before naps from 1.5 to 2 hours from around 8 to 9 months, and he was transitioned by 9 months. I do know we had a 6pm bedtime for a long time after that!

[Soror]

Just a thought if your baby starting sleeping worse around the time you intro'd solids it could very well be that something you introduced isn't settling well with him.

 

We co-sleep here and despite what some will say it doesn't make horrible sleepers. I transitioned my 2 oldest at 2 and 5 from our bed- long story as to why those ages- but regardless we transitioned them there was never a problem with the 5 yo and the 2 yo it was about a weeks time to just be able to tell her goodnight and leave. Unlike most of the other parents I talk to that didn't cosleep they don't come to crawl in our bed in the morning either. The 5 yo never wakes at night. The (now 4 yo) would occassionally wake up a few time but dh would go in there and it would be 10 seconds. Now some nights she might wake to go pee. I also find it funny when around anti-cosleepers that had went on and on about how I would never get them out of our bed or that they wouldn't sleep well and they all have children that constantly climb in bed with them and ours never do and nobody cried it out, ever. My baby -19 months- is still co-sleeping and we will probably transfer her around 2 to sleep with big sister- assuming she is ready to night wean by then.

 

When co-sleeping I lay on my side with baby facing towards me on their side. I have pillows on either side to support my back, regardless of which side I am nursing. The pillows are paramount to being comfortable! I hold the baby in the crook of my elbow and that is how we sleep. Took a bit to get it down but I sleep like a dream, she generally might wake a few times to nurse for a short bit- I couldn't really say- it doesn't generally bother me. Of course there are always times when they might not feel well, have a growth spurt or are teething- then all bets are off of course.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I know they do talk about "extinction" or whatever (basically cry it out), *but* I'm pretty sure they were just giving it as an option, not saying you had to do it. I think this book is extremely helpful in learning about baby sleep habits and needs by age. You can ignore the cry it out stuff, and just glean info about sleep needs. :)

 

Also, I remember reading some baby boards around that time, and it seemed like everyone had a "help-my-baby-is-waking-up-every-hour" scenario. My DS did it too around then. Just remember it won't last forever! As soon as we think we've figured out their sleep schedule, they change it on us. :P Some people suggested possible separation anxiety setting in around then, or growth spurts.

 

So it sounds like your DS is not quite ready to drop the third nap, but might be soon. :) His nap schedule sounds very familiar. I remember slowly trying to stretch awake time before naps from 1.5 to 2 hours from around 8 to 9 months, and he was transitioned by 9 months. I do know we had a 6pm bedtime for a long time after that!

Thanks! Very helpful :)

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Just a thought if your baby starting sleeping worse around the time you intro'd solids it could very well be that something you introduced isn't settling well with him.

 

We co-sleep here and despite what some will say it doesn't make horrible sleepers. I transitioned my 2 oldest at 2 and 5 from our bed- long story as to why those ages- but regardless we transitioned them there was never a problem with the 5 yo and the 2 yo it was about a weeks time to just be able to tell her goodnight and leave. Unlike most of the other parents I talk to that didn't cosleep they don't come to crawl in our bed in the morning either. The 5 yo never wakes at night. The (now 4 yo) would occassionally wake up a few time but dh would go in there and it would be 10 seconds. Now some nights she might wake to go pee. I also find it funny when around anti-cosleepers that had went on and on about how I would never get them out of our bed or that they wouldn't sleep well and they all have children that constantly climb in bed with them and ours never do and nobody cried it out, ever. My baby -19 months- is still co-sleeping and we will probably transfer her around 2 to sleep with big sister- assuming she is ready to night wean by then.

 

When co-sleeping I lay on my side with baby facing towards me on their side. I have pillows on either side to support my back, regardless of which side I am nursing. The pillows are paramount to being comfortable! I hold the baby in the crook of my elbow and that is how we sleep. Took a bit to get it down but I sleep like a dream, she generally might wake a few times to nurse for a short bit- I couldn't really say- it doesn't generally bother me. Of course there are always times when they might not feel well, have a growth spurt or are teething- then all bets are off of course.

What about naps... when they were babies, or for your 19 month old. Do you have to lay down with them? If not do they or did they take the needed amount of time for naps? I know he wasn't getting enough sleep there for a while because he was acting tired ALL the time. Like I said I would love to co-sleep if we could make it work.

[Soror]

I cannot remember for certain how many naps this one had at that age, at least 2. Currently she usually only does 1. She often just has a nursing marathon during nap time(as these days she doesn't nurse near as much during the day as she is so busy), which is during afternoon quiet time for the 2 older ones, and I use that as my relax/computer time. But before I would lay her down and she did ok. If for some reason I couldn't get her down we would just do our work while nursing. We did a lot of schooling while nursing in those early days. We try to go to bed early and she just sleeps when she wants, which as I said these days is in the evening.

[MelanieM]

What about naps... when they were babies, or for your 19 month old. Do you have to lay down with them? If not do they or did they take the needed amount of time for naps? I know he wasn't getting enough sleep there for a while because he was acting tired ALL the time. Like I said I would love to co-sleep if we could make it work.

Our sleep arrangement has been very much like soror has described. For us, we have had different napping scenarios with each child. My first did not nap well laying in bed alone and would wake up after 10-15 minutes if I left the bed. So what worked for us was to wear her in a sling for naps -- she slept like a dream then! With my second I thought we'd do the same, but he would wake after 10-15 min in the sling! He did well being nursed to sleep for a nap and left alone afterwards. My third was somewhere in between -- some days a great napper, some days needing me more.

 

All that to say... co-sleeping didn't have much impact on how they all napped, but personality was *huge*. There's just no one right recipe for kids, it seems! lol!

[Mrs. A]

I didn't have a chance to read through all the replies, but if you've not heard of it before I HIGHLY recommend the book Secrets of the Babywhisperer by Tracy Hogg. She outlines a very balanced approach to sleep issues as opposed to either extreme of CIO or co-sleeping. I cannot recommend it strongly enough. It really changed the way I parent and completely saved my sanity when DS was born!!! You can also check out the forum: http://www.babywhispererforums.com it's a very friendly board and you can get tons of suggestions there!

Hth

Edited July 4, 2011 by Mrs. A
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