I live off-grid: Any questions?

[happygrrl]

I just read a post form someone asking about homeschooling off-grid, as well as the posts about the couple leaving Texas for Vermont to live off grid.

 

I have lived off-the-grid for 11 years now (and coincidentally, I moved from Texas to Oregon to do it! Hee hee!). I am interested that so many people have particular ideas about what it is like... really off-grid situations vary as much as homes in a "normal" suburb would. Sort of.

 

So- if you want to know, ask any question you like. I'll answer the most obvious one: my internet connection comes form a satellite dish attached to the generator shed. It takes a surprising amount of power (not the laptop, but the modem). We use solar power (the generator is backup), so on rainy days I check my e-mails and the forum once... summer nights I tend to surf more than I should.

 

What amazes me is how many people say they would love to live our lifestyle, but they just could not do it. I find that odd, really, because I was a little Texas urban girl, with no rural skills. Yet we did it, are doing it, have three lovely kids and a gorgeous view, and lots of friends who come for summer vacation!

[Amy in NY]

I would LOVE to be off of the Grid - and my dad was employed by our power company growing up so this thinking is new to me as an adult. The thought of being completely dependent on an entity for our electricity does not sit well with me at all.

 

I am wondering how you store food (freezer?). Do you have to 'ration' or rotate your appliance use? How much did it cost to go solar? Did you build your house w/solar power or convert an existing one?

[Karen sn]

I would LOVE to be off of the Grid - and my dad was employed by our power company growing up so this thinking is new to me as an adult. The thought of being completely dependent on an entity for our electricity does not sit well with me at all.

 

I am wondering how you store food (freezer?). Do you have to 'ration' or rotate your appliance use? How much did it cost to go solar? Did you build your house w/solar power or convert an existing one?

 

Excellent questions.

I only have one to add.

Hppygrrl, How much an acre did you pay (if you mind my asking ignore this part) AND more importantly, how much is land in the woods selling an acre now?

 

We are thinking of Tennessee - close enough to visit home, far enough away to not have visitors every weekend. Thinking it's affordable - especially in the coming months when people are not thinking about "getting what its worth" (from that ridiculously inflated housing market 5 years ago) but instead begining to get take they can get for it because pretty soon they might get nothing.

 

I knew someone off the grid once. I enjoyed visiting....

 

Another question......OK, you mention summer visitors.

My concern about living far away is who will ever come out to see me with gas at 4+? I like the idea if people who come out for a week or two for Thanksgiving or Summer Solstice. Real close friends and some of my nondysfunctional family could stay that long.

 

But I like friends to come over for dinner and a porch afterward. Or girlfriends who come over and bring kids if they have them and we eat lunch and visit for an afternoon. We recently lived 20 miles from the edge of our town for about 9 months. And the the other town we were near was 14 miles away and yucky so there was no reason to go there.

 

I felt very isolated.

 

Plus I am a beach person. Last place was sooooo far. Like an hour.

I need a clean beautiful lake at least. Or some clean water to swim in. Once lived on a sinkhole in Wakulla County.....clear, cold beautiful water. It would get full of tannins from the rains once in a while and look dark as tea, but it was always clean swimming.

 

HOW IN THE WORLD do you not feel isolated? How far from town are you? Do they sell organic or fresh local clean food? How much do you grow? And are you necessarily far out....because being off the grid could be done closer to town? I,m gonna have to reread your post Hppygrrl.....you may have already answered these.

[Kelli in TN]

Okay, we are not going to live off grid. We are not leaving suburbia.

 

But I am VERY interested in learning about solar power. I would like to add a solar panel or two or three to our roof to help offset rising utility costs. So if you could tell us about solar panels and how much you can run off them and so forth, I would be personally grateful.

[Quiver0f10]

I would love to live off grid! And to be as self sustaining as possible. I will be watching this thread :)

[mo2]

What do you do for income? Does your dh work somewhere? I'm not sure how far from any town you might be.

 

If you don't mind questions about money (I always feel rude asking them), how much would it cost someone to get set up to live off grid? To buy a house that was all ready to go, solar power and all?

[*anj*]

While I would love to live in a more rural area, we have no plans to move anywhere in the near future.

Also, my dream of a hobby farm is not even remotely dh's dream. And he and I both know that when I say "Wouldn't it be nice to have chickens?" I mean "Wouldn't it be nice if you (dh) would do all the gross parts and I get to sprinkle corn on the ground?"

 

Still, I realize that there is more that we could do. I'd love to have solar panels installed. I read awhile back that some states offer grants to citizens who do this, which of course really cuts back on the expense.

 

Did you have that kind of help? Did you build your house or have you renovated it?

[clwcain]

:lurk5:

[CalicoKat]

While I would love to live in a more rural area, we have no plans to move anywhere in the near future.

Also, my dream of a hobby farm is not even remotely dh's dream. And he and I both know that when I say "Wouldn't it be nice to have chickens?" I mean "Wouldn't it be nice if you (dh) would do all the gross parts and I get to sprinkle corn on the ground?"

 

Still, I realize that there is more that we could do. I'd love to have solar panels installed. I read awhile back that some states offer grants to citizens who do this, which of course really cuts back on the expense.

 

Did you have that kind of help? Did you build your house or have you renovated it?

how would one go about finding which states give grants for this? We're looking into wind power. DH says it's more efficient.

[jmgconner]

Thank you for answering our questions! Feel free to not answer some of my questions if they are too personal.

 

- How did you get started living off the grid?

- How much did it cost for you to make the switch?

- What type of home do you have? Traditional stick-built? Yurt :D ?

- Do you grow your own food? Have farm animals?

- What do you use for transportation? Gas powered car? Veggie oil? Bike?

- What recommendations do you have for people seeking to go off the grid?

- How do I get started?

- How do you heat your home in the winter?

- I'm kind of attached to my full-size fridge/freezer, as well as another deep freezer for stockpiling - what do you have in terms of fridge/freezer?

- How often do you find the need to use the generator? Ehh, I'm assuming it's a gas or diesel generator?

-What do you/DH do for a living?

- What was your motivation for going off the grid? Ecological reasons? Political reasons? Spiritual reasons? How has your reasons played into the success of living 11 years off the grid?

- I just finished reading Farewell, my Subaru - loved his candor and humor in learning to live off the grid. Do you have a particular funny story or moment to share about learning to live off the grid?

- This fascinates me and I can't wait to put ourselves into a position that we can live like this. In the meantime, I'm learning how to garden and take advantage of greener ways of life (hanging clothes to dry, local food). What skills would you recommend someone to learn?

- I love Jesus, and with my Christian background, I find that some of my family thinks that perhaps my desire to be 'greener' doesn't mesh well with our beliefs. How important is your friends/family support system?

 

I'm sure I'll think of more - thanks so much for sharing your experiences!

[Wildiris]

We've lived "Off the Grid" for 25 years with varying amounts of sustainable solar power and generator back up. I think that whether one lives rural or urban, living off the grid requires that one live within the limits of power generated be it solar, wind or water.

 

The cost of living off the grid depends on how much power you feel you need. For example, if you want to maintain a standard urban life style with all of the appliances it will cost $$$$, but one could just easily live on DC with a few lights and be just fine. There are some appliances which suck energy such as an iron and a toaster because they have heating elements. One does not vacuum daily.

 

Other appliances such as freezers, refrigeration and hot water can be solar or propane.

 

Solar panels do fail and get old. Solar systems should to be engineered for efficiency and then there are all those batteries to buy and maintain. Some batteries have a longer life than others. Some my neighbors are looking into purchasing new batteries 12-15 at $250 each(This seems to be a typical number of batteries for a modest lifestyle). Our last set of batteries were a dud and lasted only three years.

 

Living rural is not living in isolation. It is more like living in a small town where everyone knows one another, knows your kids and are always there to help in an emergency, and of course there is the down side of everyone knowing your business. Jobs are few and hard to come by.

 

Wildiris

[happygrrl]

I am wondering how you store food (freezer?). Do you have to 'ration' or rotate your appliance use? How much did it cost to go solar? Did you build your house w/solar power or convert an existing one?

 

When we first moved it was to a littel hand built log cabin. It was a bit scary, as no one had lived in it for a while, and (being very pregnant and used to city standards of cleanliness) I was obsessed with scrubbing every surface! It had no solar at the time, except for a mini panel that connected to a battery and operated a creepy fluorescent fixture above the sink. Our stove was operated by propane, and we used a cooler in the shade of the house for cold items (only a problem in summer). We got a block of ice on or weekly town trip, and that lasted about a week. We'd eat meat on "town day" and then mostly veggie meals after that. I learned how to can and dry that summer! We upgraded to a propane fridge a few years later (by that time my folks were a little freaked out that we had babies and no refrigeration!). The propane was a real problem. it is really expensive, and the gasses that come off the back of the fridge gave a massive headaches, so we had to keep it on the porch. It was really just an expensive version of the cooler we had been using, except it had to be defrosted! We bought a generator as we needed to run some power tools to build on the house (the original house was built by hand), and so I got a front loading washing machine! It was so beautiful, after washing all the babies' stuff (including diapers!!) with a washboard and tub!!

 

A few years ago we finally had the money to invest in a solar system. i would say it cost arounf $10,000 for the panels, batteries and inverter (changes the current form the batteries to 110 for the house), though one can do a system for much more or much less. I believe it is cheaper now, adn our neighbor jsut received a multi-thousand dollar credit for his system. We sized our systlen to have a "real" refrigerator, which takes a lot of power. Now we have a regular fridge; an maytag french door model with a freezer. In the summer we have no problem with running all manner of appliances, as the system recharges quickly. In the winter we have to be more careful, and often run the back up generator if we do extra stuff (like watch a movie). It just means we need more batteries to store the power we collect. The new technologies like compact fluorescents, LCD screens and enrgy star qualified appliances make it possible an off-grid situation very much like a "normal" home. The only difference is that we paid our energy bill up front. It takes much petroleum product to produce the panels, so I am not sure about our net gain in carbon footprint, you know? But I love the fact that I think about it before we run an appliance. It feels so much more "real" to me. I also love that it has pushed me to question what I really need, and to think about other wasy of doing things. For example, we got a solar oven to cook in th summer (still on propane for cooking- yuk!) and we love playing with it.

 

OK- that may have been way too much information! I just am in a "pondering" state of mind!:)

[dragons in the flower bed]

I have a question! Who maintains your solar stuff? Does someone in your household do it?

[happygrrl]

Excellent questions.

I only have one to add.

Hppygrrl, How much an acre did you pay (if you mind my asking ignore this part) AND more importantly, how much is land in the woods selling an acre now?

 

 

HOW IN THE WORLD do you not feel isolated? How far from town are you? Do they sell organic or fresh local clean food? How much do you grow? And are you necessarily far out....because being off the grid could be done closer to town? I,m gonna have to reread your post Hppygrrl.....you may have already answered these.

 

Well, we bough 11 years ago, right before land prices shot sky high. However we live on the west cost, where prices are always somewhat shocking! We paid $72k for 20 acres. It had a ramshackle log cabin built in the 70'2, a small one room guest cabin built in the 80's, a weirdly proportioned sauna, and a pond, and seasonal creek. What made the price so cheap (for around here) was he fact that the nearest power line was 3 miles away. Also, the road access was absolutely crazy. You needed a 4 wheel drive for half of the year to get here, and the road stopped 1/4 mile form the house! Now we have really improved it and we get to drive right to the house. Heaven! I still think you can get land relatively cheaply. You have to be able to see potential, and know which problems are fixable and which aren't. for example, the road here can be changed, but good solar access was a deal breaker! You can fix almost anything with sweat and money.

 

As for isolation... whew! It was tough at first. I'm the sort of girl that lived at street cafes right downtown! We did have neighbors (on their respective 20 acres), but i was really frightened of them. Hippies who dressed funnny!:tongue_smilie: Now of course I know and love my neighbors, but still don't have a heart to heart friend among them. So that first year was crazy hard on me.. new mom and also pregnant, and at that time my hubby worked in town an hour away. I tlearned a couple things. First, that the noises of town were addictive. I had to 'detox'. I don't think I heard the creek by our house for several months, then one day, i just *heard* it. It had been there all along, but my senses had not let the sound through! I figured my loneliness might be the same way. My parents come to visit, and I really *hear* them now, you know? Stopping work. Savoring time with people. Quality over quantity I guess. Secondly, we encourage people to visit and make a big deal about it. One couple stayed for a month! I loved it- I probably talked their ear off! Third, he biggest change for me was getting the internet. I can talk to me best friends every day, and also just learn about what is going on the world. Fourth, and this is the big one that had nothing ot do with where we live.... my dh and i were not "friends". We loved each other, sure, but with out my girlfriends, I was lost! After 11 years (of huge ups and downs) I can say my husband is my best friend. I don't think that would have happened in town, due to my personality. I feel that might be he main reason for us being here. I would not say that everyone should do it, but I do know I needed it, in ways I did not even realize. It has saved me, and my family.

 

As for the children, they do have a few neighbor kids. Of course they walk a mile to get there! But that's nice too- sending them off on a mile hike, knowing that they will be fine. I plan to take them into town for classes at the YMCA or something soon, just to get some friendships going. It's a little hard... when moms here about our life they imagine all sorts of things and we don't hear form them again!

[Tess in the Burbs]

I too would love to live 'off-grid'. My dh I think too would like to try it, but obviously there is the need for income. Right now we couldn't sell our home to break even as we bought just as the market turned down. Dh's job opportunities tend to be big cities. So far he hasn't found a tele-commuting option although he's looking. We would have to move out of our suburbia world(and I would like that!).

 

So yes, my questions:

 

1) how far are you from 'town'

2) does your dh in town or at home?

3) do you have a car? hybrid? or does dh bike to town?

4) assuming you don't go to town often, how do the kids do with just family to play with? (my kids are very social and I would be concerned about their need for other faces, lol)

 

 

this is a great thread. You are certainly living a dream many would love to try!

[happygrrl]

Okay, we are not going to live off grid. We are not leaving suburbia.

 

But I am VERY interested in learning about solar power. I would like to add a solar panel or two or three to our roof to help offset rising utility costs. So if you could tell us about solar panels and how much you can run off them and so forth, I would be personally grateful.

 

Things have changed so much in this area, that I am sure my info is already outdated! Basically, in our system, the panels are wired to a battery bank of deep cycle batteries, which stores the power. From the batteries, it goes through an inverter (ours is made by Outback) to be converted into 110 AC for the house. The wiring goes to a fuse box and is distributed throughout the house like any other house. We have a meter inside the house (also by Outback) that tells us info about the batteries. We can tell how much power is in there before i run the vacuum!

 

If you are connected to the grid, the power form the solar panels will go into a "grid tie' box. Then any power you make over what yo use is purchased by the energy company. This is a cool system, but if the grid ever goes down (power outage) then you are just like everyone else, as you have no sored energy to use. You can opt to have a battery bank and inverter and still be tied to the grid, it just takes more maintainance on your end. You can read the FAQ on the Outback web site to learn more about that. If I remember correctly, they have good info there.

 

The best place to check on all this is your electric company. They are the ones who legally must tie you to the grid, and most companies will provide you with the tie in box and wiring etc. for free. They don't want just any nut to be hooking up to the town's power system! They often have credits for the home owner as well.

[happygrrl]

What do you do for income? Does your dh work somewhere? I'm not sure how far from any town you might be.

 

If you don't mind questions about money (I always feel rude asking them), how much would it cost someone to get set up to live off grid? To buy a house that was all ready to go, solar power and all?

 

At first my husband worked in town at a coffee place! It was sort of a joke, as the owner would not sell to us unless dh had a job (we were new to the area). He never looked to see what job dh actually had, so it worked out!

 

The thing about income.... really you only need enough income to cover your expenses. (I am counting savings and entertainment as expenses). When you live off grid, your expenses can be very very low, so your income can be very very low. It's all about proportion. Not long ago we visited a friend who is a computer guy in San Francisco. He makes quite a bit of money, yet we had more expendable cash than he did! Who's life was less stressful and more fun, we joked!

 

So- all of that to say my husband is an odd-jobber. He cuts and sells firewood, helps people build fences and sheds, paints houses, etc. He was pre-med when I met him, but this suits his personality better, he says! He does work a full week, but it is like a farmer works. Up with the sun, working around the place, going to a job if he has one currently, and comes in all dusty for dinner. Lots of freedom of schedule, which is crucial for him. He only works for what we need and want, then he gets to play! In spite of the fact that we make comparatively little (below the poverty level for a family of five) we live very very comfortably.

 

We always have great schemes and ideas for businesses (bed and breakfast! goats! Garlic!) and maybe someday we'll experiment a little. The mortgage ($500/month) will be paid next year, and we'll have even more freedom to venture into other money ideas.

 

As far as cost: it really depends on the house. I know of one off the grid house in the area that has a vinyard, 8 bedrooms and an elevator:tongue_smilie:! Other places- like ours used to be- are just shacks. The rule of thumb is time vs. money. If you want to spend less time, you need more money. The inverse is true as well... and that's the path we took. No money to speak of, and so our house is still unfinished 11 years later, but it will be glorious in the end!

[happygrrl]

While I would love to live in a more rural area, we have no plans to move anywhere in the near future.

Also, my dream of a hobby farm is not even remotely dh's dream. And he and I both know that when I say "Wouldn't it be nice to have chickens?" I mean "Wouldn't it be nice if you (dh) would do all the gross parts and I get to sprinkle corn on the ground?"

 

Still, I realize that there is more that we could do. I'd love to have solar panels installed. I read awhile back that some states offer grants to citizens who do this, which of course really cuts back on the expense.

 

Did you have that kind of help? Did you build your house or have you renovated it?

 

When we started here was no assistance that we new of, although now there are state as well as federal credit, not to mention the quality of technology is up, and the cost is lowering. The house sorta looked OK when we moved in, but the old owner never fixed a leak at the faucet, adn much of the wood foundation was rotten. We knew it was a fixer-upper... in fact, that's the only was we could have afforded it! I must admit that this was all my husband's dream, *not* mine. I don't know how he convinced me to do it.; I think it was one of those spacey pregnancy moments. It was certainly the right decision for us, though! I was so full of idealism in the beginning- I could write a book about the funny stories of me 'trying' to be a good pioneer wife. I imagined myself with that gingham apron strewing corn to adoring chickens too!! Finally I realized I had to be myself, and threw away my gingham aprons. I am still way domestic by most of my friends' standards, it just is more balanced now! We built around the log cabin and then took it down, all while living in the mess (goofy idea!), and our new house is more representative of the mix of my dh and I; we incorporated the old wooden beams right next to my stainless steel appliances and modern paintings.

[happygrrl]

how would one go about finding which states give grants for this? We're looking into wind power. DH says it's more efficient.

 

We wanted wind power so bad! Our house is in a little valley, so the wind does not allow a windmill... yet. We are waiting for some cool new technology to appear! We do have a seasonal creek, so are looking into hydro power for those days that have no sun.

 

Your local energy company is a good place to start. They usually have good info about all power options, and are helpful. Also, your state website should have a search function that would lead you to the info they have there. A great source of info is a local retailer of alternate energy products. Even our local organic gardening store has been a great source, albeit indirectly: the workers are all alternative type folks that like to talk. You might even go to your nearest health food store and ask around... sometimes they have bulletin boards there of local folks, or the casheir will know of a frequent customer who might help. Someone who has "been there done that" in your area is an invaluable source. We learned much of our info just by googling! Best of luck on your adventure!

[happygrrl]

We've lived "Off the Grid" for 25 years with varying amounts of sustainable solar power and generator back up. I think that whether one lives rural or urban, living off the grid requires that one live within the limits of power generated be it solar, wind or water.

 

 

 

Living rural is not living in isolation. It is more like living in a small town where everyone knows one another, knows your kids and are always there to help in an emergency, and of course there is the down side of everyone knowing your business. Jobs are few and hard to come by.

 

Wildiris

 

:iagree: I love how you put this, WildIris! It's so true, and one of the best parts of living like we do. Jobs are hard, I agree. It's like you said about the energy- knowing what is coming in, and living according to that. All about changing your perspectives. Good post! And do tell us more!!!

[happygrrl]

I have a question! Who maintains your solar stuff? Does someone in your household do it?

 

My husband does all the electrical stuff. Not because it is really difficult- it's just that we sat down at the beginning of this thing and divvied up the chores! It is funny- I do the more traditionally "women's work", but because we discussed it in that way I don't feel pressure to fill that role. Quite enjoy it, in fact, which I never thought i would. But I digress! He does all the "utilities" stuff- power and water. I really need to take some time and learn his systems myself, for those days he is out working and I need to fix something. He feels the same way about where i hid the syrup :). I tell ya, I know some singel women who live off the grid, and I admire them. I am grateful to have a partner to help with the sheer volume of things that need to be attended to. If my husband passes before I do, I will hire a helper!

[happygrrl]

 

1) how far are you from 'town'

2) does your dh in town or at home?

3) do you have a car? hybrid? or does dh bike to town?

4) assuming you don't go to town often, how do the kids do with just family to play with? (my kids are very social and I would be concerned about their need for other faces, lol)

 

 

 

 

We live 21 miles from town. When the road was bad it would take me about 45-50 minutes (and most of that on the 5 miles from our house to the pavement!). With better roads, it takes me about 40 minutes (my dh does it in much less- I am a slow driver!). When dh transitioned from town work to home work it was a huge leap of faith for me. Most of my neighbors work in town at various jobs, but we do fine with his odd-job business. We have all diesel vehicles that we try to run on B99 (biodiesel). It is really expensive, but we get a tax credit that offsets it some. We do have 2 neighbor kids to play with, but mostly the kids play with each other. They are really good friends out of necessity! I am planning on having them take a class in town this semester, just to add some friends. Our vacation times (we take a lot!) are generally to friends' houses, so we get lots of socialization that way. People keep inviting us to go camping, and that sound terrible to me! We *live* camping! I'd rather go to my friends' house, have the kids play in a yard, while I get to go shop and eat out! We are definitely the country mice!

[happygrrl]

I too would love to live 'off-grid'. My dh I think too would like to try it, but obviously there is the need for income. Right now we couldn't sell our home to break even as we bought just as the market turned down. Dh's job opportunities tend to be big cities. So far he hasn't found a tele-commuting option although he's looking. We would have to move out of our suburbia world(and I would like that!).

 

 

 

I think this is a good point. My number one recommendation would be to get out of debt, if possible, before moving to the land. Those months when we were worrying about enough income to pay needs + debt were very stressful. I can't imagine how much further ahead we would be if we could have focused on the place, instead of scrambling to make income to pay off debt. We have best friends who bought land next to us, but due to his job they cannot move out here yet. However, they have paid off their land and are working on it when they come in the summer. Meanwhile they are reading up on rural skills, collecting tools, and making plans. A different path than we took, but we will all end up at the same place!

[Wildiris]

1) how far are you from 'town'

 

We live 50 or so miles from town and medical. If someone gets bit by a rattle snake, heart attack or other medical emergency the person goes by medical helicopter to the nearest hospital. Our VFD is very active for both fire and medical stuff.

 

2) does your dh in town or at home?

Both

 

3) do you have a car? hybrid? or does dh bike to town?

 

Cars can be an issue for those of us who live down dirt roads. We live five miles down a dirt road, plus poorly maintained mountain road and we've been through cars. Hybrid cars are yet to be sturdy enough to take the beating. Cars don't just wear out; they rattle to death, and tires never make it to their millage warranty.

 

4) assuming you don't go to town often, how do the kids do with just family to play with? (my kids are very social and I would be concerned about their need for other faces, lol)

 

We go to town more than I like and that is twice a week. The kids are better socially than their peers, and they don't whine about needing to see other kids. Teens want to leave. Living so far away for the teens is a big problem. However, all of those teens eventually grow up and come back to live near home.

 

 

Wildiris

 

 

[happygrrl]

Thank you for answering our questions! Feel free to not answer some of my questions if they are too personal.

 

- How did you get started living off the grid?

While my dh was pondering med-school I found out I was pregnant. My dh did not have a great relationship with *his* father, and was already a hippie-sort of guy anyway, so I should have seen *something* coming! He expressed a desire to move from Texas (where I am from) so we took a vacation visiting every friend in every region of the country we could think of. While visiting Or, we just both *knew*. Though he had not verbalized his desire to live this way, maybe even to himself, I found our land listed in the paper. We thought we'd have to go through a few fixer uppers to be able to afford land in the country, but this was cheaper than any fixer upper around. I tell you, it was Divine, really. It was where we were supposed to land, and so we did. I have no idea, looking back, why a girl who liked to wear black, sit in coffee shops and read Sartre would ever agree to this. It was Divine; that's the only way I can explain it.

 

How much did it cost for you to make the switch?

We really had nothing when we moved in, so even the $500/ month mortgage was a stretch. The cost was similar to any move, really. Because we did not have th $ to pay for upgrades to the cabin, we paid in sweat.

What type of home do you have? Traditional stick-built? Yurt :D ?

The original house was a hand built log cabin in great disrepair. We now have a more traditional stick built home (currently unfinished; I am learning patience through the process). We chose this style for financial reasons. You can buy used materials fairly cheaply, my husband knows how to do it (vs. hiring people), and it is easy to add on to. Basically it will look like any contemporary house in the outside. We do have to think of some unique design situations, like the fact that it is heated solely with a wood stove, we have huge windows on the southern exposure, lots of specifically placed windows for air ventilation in summer, only one water heater so all our water use items are clustered, etc.

 

Do you grow your own food? Have farm animals?

We do have a garden, though sometimes it is bigger than others. I realized that I needed to work smarter rather than harder, so I am serious about calculating costs. for example. when the farmer's market sells 10 ears of corn for a dollar, it's cheaper to buy than to grow! We don't have animals yet (we did have chickens but they became dinner for wildlife), but the mortgage gets paid off within the year, so we have extra $$ to build the infrastructure necessary for them.

 

-

What do you use for transportation? Gas powered car? Veggie oil? Bike?

Bio diesel powered VW Jetta, Van, and Ford truck with dump bed for rock and firewood (this gets low gpm, so is driven very rarely)

 

What recommendations do you have for people seeking to go off the grid?

- How do I get started?

Get out of debt, so the financial requirements don't get in the way of living. Start living simply now, so that the transition is easy. Read all you can, country side magazine is lovely, as well as the book Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery. Throw out all your ideas about who you have to be to do it. I wasted many months trying to be a perfect hippie mama, and that is so not me! Country lifestyle is as varied as the people who do it :).

-

How do you heat your home in the winter?

Large windows on the south side to bring in sun, and a nice big woodstove. Being from Texas I am most comfortable with near-tropical temps, so this was one area I could not compromise on :)

 

I'm kind of attached to my full-size fridge/freezer, as well as another deep freezer for stockpiling - what do you have in terms of fridge/freezer?

Lots of folks I know have freezers, our electrical system is too small to add one with out cutting out other appliances. My fridge has a 7 cu. ft. freezer at the bottom, and that is totally full. I know I could rent a freezer in town if we ever had a cow or something, but I would probably just put that money into upgrading the solar system. There are propane freezers, but they are expensive and I have propane for environmental reasons. (we still use it though, but are constantly trying to lesson our use.) A neighbor has a plan to make a solar freezer! At this point I just do canning.

 

How often do you find the need to use the generator? Ehh, I'm assuming it's a gas or diesel generator?

The genrator is a diesel, run with biodiesel. My husband is in the process of figuring out how to make bio from our garden.. he's just that sort of guy. In the summer we don't run it at all, in the winter, well, it depends on how much we use. On wash day, or if the kids are sick and watch movies all day, we have to turn it on. It is efficient, so even in our high use months we spend less on fuel than the average family would on electricity, i would think.

 

 

What was your motivation for going off the grid? Ecological reasons? Political reasons? Spiritual reasons? How has your reasons played into the success of living 11 years off the grid?

Hmm. all of these I guess. We both had a sense that the "normal" world was not the best environment for us, personally, though it could not be easily verbalized at that point. Now, we see our friends suffering with massive consumerism, fear of the future, and deeply in debt, and we are so thankful we are not in that any more. I see my kids acting like kids- chasing snakes and swimming in the pond, and I know we did a good thing. All my life I had dealt with manic depression (runs in my family), and I am basically a non-sufferer while out in the country. The air, exercise, and lack of frantic stimulation allow me to live unmedicated, and also gave me the space to learn theraputic responses to my neural quirks. My sun, who has asperger's and is also possible manic depressive, is a different child here. These are things that we did not understand at the time, but are invaluable truths now. Even when things are hard here, I look at what our life could have been and shudder.

 

I just finished reading Farewell, my Subaru - loved his candor and humor in learning to live off the grid. Do you have a particular funny story or moment to share about learning to live off the grid?

I'll have to read that! Oh, so many crazy stories. I have been thinking hard about making a documentary with a film student friend of mine, but nobody would believe it! Living so close to the source of your life... garden, water, solar, outhouse.... if you aren't thinking about it, it does not get done. No switches to flick here! It makes life so very visceral, that I feel a bit bored when I am in town. It feels removed from vibrancy.

 

This fascinates me and I can't wait to put ourselves into a position that we can live like this. In the meantime, I'm learning how to garden and take advantage of greener ways of life (hanging clothes to dry, local food). What skills would you recommend someone to learn?

The ability to live with quiet, among the rest i mentioned :) Quiet is hard to live with for a while. I was terrified at first! I found myself making loud noises just to pacify my detoxing senses! Now I am addicted to it.

 

I love Jesus, and with my Christian background, I find that some of my family thinks that perhaps my desire to be 'greener' doesn't mesh well with our beliefs. How important is your friends/family support system?

I know what you mean. I want to tell people that every spring I see the wild lilies, and if God considers the lilies of the field, then He is green green greener than all of us! Environmentalism should be *headed* by Christians, in my opinion! I don' t know too many that feel that way. My family is very supportive, but my husband's family struggles with our choices. Our friends all approve, so that helps. Our little church is mystified, but tolerant. I love reading this board, it makes me hopeful. My dh is my biggest support system, and that is a product of this lifestyle; it will make you or break you.

 

I'm sure I'll think of more - thanks so much for sharing your experiences!

Ask away- I'm having a blast! It is also clarifying my thoughts as we make plans for the year (our year runs spring to spring). I feel like we have lost our focus a little, and I am thinking about ways to refine. Thanks for helping me do that!

[happygrrl]

1)

 

Cars can be an issue for those of us who live down dirt roads. We live five miles down a dirt road, plus poorly maintained mountain road and we've been through cars. Hybrid cars are yet to be sturdy enough to take the beating. Cars don't just wear out; they rattle to death, and tires never make it to their millage warranty.

I am laughing so hard, though it is not funny! Are you my neighbor??? We have gone through so many shocks on the subaru it is not funny. Our best option has been the VW van with super high clearance. Dh converted it to diesel so that it gets better gpm. Even though we only go to town a few times a mont, we drive more than most due to the length of the trip. One neighbor puts his dirty laundry, water and soap in 5 gallon buckets in the back of his car. When he gets to town he changes the water for rinsing, and then drives it back home again. More action than any washing machine!

[happygrrl]

At the risk of sounding dumb... I didn't even know what "living off the grid" was. I have gotten a better sense since reading the posts, but really I didn't know.

 

:001_huh:

 

So not dumb. I had no idea either, until we did it. Basically it means not attached to the power "grid", meaning not hooked up to the power lines. This could look hundreds of different ways- from the urban dweller with solar panels on her condo roof to the person in a teepee in the woods. Most folks expand it to mean not connected to other city systems like city water, sewage, or trash pick up.

[happygrrl]

 

We go to town more than I like and that is twice a week. The kids are better socially than their peers, and they don't whine about needing to see other kids. Teens want to leave. Living so far away for the teens is a big problem. However, all of those teens eventually grow up and come back to live near home.

 

 

Wildiris

 

 

Wildiris- Do you live with neighbors close by? I am curious about how much you interact with other off-grid folks. We live in a neighborhood, in the mountains surrounded by BLM land. I have such a love/hate (metaphorically speaking) relationship with my kooky neighbors! How close are you, physically and relationally, to your neigbors?

[Wildiris]

If you should find yourself seriously wanting to make a move to the country and are even looking at land to buy please consider these things:

 

Water~You'd be amazed at how many people buy land with no water and no hope of a well. One cannot live without water. Where? How many GPM? Is it gravity feed or do you need to pump with a solar slow pump? Just ask yourself how you're going to get water from point A to point B. Is the water year round, or does it dry up in the dog days of summer? Water tanks~ferro cement or plastic?

 

Access~Do you have deed access to your land and who pays for road maintenance. Again, you'd be amazed and disappointed when an angry rancher blocks what you though was your access.

 

Know your boundaries~ Knowing where you property ends and where your neighbors begins makes for good neighbor relations. A good survey may just put a year round spring on the land you want to buy.

 

Wildiris

[happygrrl]

If you should find yourself seriously wanting to make a move to the country and are even looking at land to buy please consider these things:

 

Water~You'd be amazed at how many people buy land with no water and no hope of a well. One cannot live without water. Where? How many GPM? Is it gravity feed or do you need to pump with a solar slow pump? Just ask yourself how you're going to get water from point A to point B. Is the water year round, or does it dry up in the dog days of summer? Water tanks~ferro cement or plastic?

 

Access~Do you have deed access to your land and who pays for road maintenance. Again, you'd be amazed and disappointed when an angry rancher blocks what you though was your access.

 

Know your boundaries~ Knowing where you property ends and where your neighbors begins makes for good neighbor relations. A good survey may just put a year round spring on the land you want to buy.

 

Wildiris

:iagree: I really second the water issue. It's our biggest concern here.

Also, look closely at your neighbors. In the city, it's pretty much live and let live. In the country, if you have neighbors you want them to be good! I did not think of this at all when we moved, and am grateful it worked out just fine.

[Hannah]

One neighbor puts his dirty laundry, water and soap in 5 gallon buckets in the back of his car. When he gets to town he changes the water for rinsing, and then drives it back home again. More action than any washing machine!

 

 

That's just brilliant!! :lol:

[mcconnellboys]

Ah, how wonderful. You just don't know how much I've been thinking about this lately. My family owns a large farm and I've been roaming every acre in my mind and imagining the things we could farm there.....

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I know what you mean. I want to tell people that every spring I see the wild lilies, and if God considers the lilies of the field, then He is green green greener than all of us! Environmentalism should be *headed* by Christians, in my opinion!

 

I love this! That's what I was thinking the whole time. We are to be stewards of the earth and wise with the resources created for us.:iagree:

[Robin in Tx]

And he and I both know that when I say "Wouldn't it be nice to have chickens?" I mean "Wouldn't it be nice if you (dh) would do all the gross parts and I get to sprinkle corn on the ground?"

 

LOL!!! That would be me.

[HS in NZ]

Eager to hear your response! --Thanks!

[sarah in tenn]

Inspiring.

:bigear:

sarah

[Chris in CA]

This is truly fascinating, thanks for the post - I learned so much, I had no idea what "off-grid" meant

[Scarlett]

This is truly fascinating, thanks for the post - I learned so much, I had no idea what "off-grid" meant

 

Me either. I know I could do it, but I don't have the drive to.

[paula j]

I have friends that live off grid, they are hoping to have solar eventually but right now they are running off wind power. They have a freezer they run off the wind and an emergency generator so they can keep ice for their cooler for milk and things and also frozen meat and veggies. They also have a composting toilet, used to have a cool little outhouse but it collapsed in an ice storm. They also have a solar shower. They have built their own house, basically one room at a time. They started out with a 20x20 room with a loft, the dc slept in the loft and the kitchen/living space was downstairs and they slept on a sofa bed. the next spring they started on the next 20x20 section which became their bedroom, the potty room, and another loft for storage, hanging herbs to dry, things like that. Next year they hope to add the final section. All in all it is a pretty nice setup and it is totally paid for because they are building as they go.

[Marie in Oh]

As I sat here reading this, I had a memory of something long ago and far away . . .

 

When I was growing up, there was a house behind our subdivision-- way up on the hillside, with soalr panels on it. There was a family with several children who lived there. Rumor had it that they lived with solar power, washed their clothes by hand, lined dried them, and didn't have a fridge, and. . . gasp. . . didn't have a TV. I only saw the kids once and a while, and they wore home sewn clothes, and were homeschooled.

 

This was like in 1980, so living off-grid was not in the vacabulary. They were just, um. . . weird. But go figure, there was a family doig just what you are doing almost 30 years ago.

 

Cool!

[LauraGB]

Wow, thanks so much for posting this! Its so thorough - just the sort of hands-on kind of info we need!

 

I would like to ask some other questions when you have time, if I may.

 

What about water? Hot water, specifically. How do you heat it? I know there are solar powered water heaters, but, well, that's all I know.:) What do you do with the water when you are done with it? Do you reuse it anywhere on your land?

 

You mentioned an outhouse. What sort of indoor toilet do you use. What do you do with the waste?

 

Dh and I have been discussing this for years. It is an ultimate goal. We've got plans for drawn (our own, of course) for the home and land usage. In our paper world, we have a rocking green house and solar heated hot water coils buried in the concrete floors in our log/stone cabin:D, which is why I ask about your hot water issue.

Thanks!

[Myrtle]

I just read a post form someone asking about homeschooling off-grid, as well as the posts about the couple leaving Texas for Vermont to live off grid.

 

I have lived off-the-grid for 11 years now (and coincidentally, I moved from Texas to Oregon to do it! Hee hee!). I am interested that so many people have particular ideas about what it is like... really off-grid situations vary as much as homes in a "normal" suburb would. Sort of.

 

So- if you want to know, ask any question you like. I'll answer the most obvious one: my internet connection comes form a satellite dish attached to the generator shed. It takes a surprising amount of power (not the laptop, but the modem). We use solar power (the generator is backup), so on rainy days I check my e-mails and the forum once... summer nights I tend to surf more than I should.

 

What amazes me is how many people say they would love to live our lifestyle, but they just could not do it. I find that odd, really, because I was a little Texas urban girl, with no rural skills. Yet we did it, are doing it, have three lovely kids and a gorgeous view, and lots of friends who come for summer vacation!

 

 

Would living off the grid in Texas be crazy impossible? What are the problems associated with living off the grid in Texas? Is the problem that A/C uses up too much electricity? Would a swamp cooler work in West Texas? How deep of a well would you need in West Texas for a water supply? What about rain catchment in San Antonio or further west?

[happygrrl]

Wow, thanks so much for posting this! Its so thorough - just the sort of hands-on kind of info we need!

 

I would like to ask some other questions when you have time, if I may.

 

What about water? Hot water, specifically. How do you heat it? I know there are solar powered water heaters, but, well, that's all I know.:) What do you do with the water when you are done with it? Do you reuse it anywhere on your land?

 

You mentioned an outhouse. What sort of indoor toilet do you use. What do you do with the waste?

 

Dh and I have been discussing this for years. It is an ultimate goal. We've got plans for drawn (our own, of course) for the home and land usage. In our paper world, we have a rocking green house and solar heated hot water coils buried in the concrete floors in our log/stone cabin:D, which is why I ask about your hot water issue.

Thanks!

 

I have been gone for a while, and did not notice the thread had new posts. Sorry that it has taken a while to get back to it!

 

I think your plans sound lovely! They are totally do-able too. Something we learned from other homestead folks is that a place does better with multiple systems.. that way when one has a problem the others take up the slack. An example is our water system. We have a copper coil that goes through our woodstove; as the water is heated it rises naturally to a tank on he second story. Our second system (for days when we don't need a fire) is an outdoor collector that heats via the sun. But what to do on cloudy summer days (no fire, no sun?) We have a tankless water heater for those days that runs on propane. I *really* dislike propane so we try to schedule high water-use days so that we can minimize propane use. So- 3 systems means that we are never short of hot water. Mind you, this took 10 years to figure out! I have gone many days without hot water. The key is knowledge, you know? I am really into permaculture ideas right now, so I am looking at systems that require little outside-energy input. Lots of design-time upfront makes for sustainable systems down the road. For exampel- having the shower *in* the greenhouse is a great solution: in a hot greenhouse the water does not have to be heated so hot, the excess water feeds the plants, etc. etc. Whew! Permaculture might be another thread!

 

That leads to toilets!! If you can find it in your library, check out "The Humanure Handbook". It is way cool! I think it might even be readable on line. We have a few different toilet options. We have an outhouse outside, the... um... product is deposited, then covered with woodstove ash and peatmoss (absorbs moisture, eliminates smell, and changes the pH to be unattractive to pests). This is emptied once a year and put into a compost pile. After another year it is spread around trees. Our second system (made when I was pregnant and could not make it all the way out to the outhouse) is the same system but in a 5 gallon bucket (hubby made a groovy toilet seat thingy out of a regular seat and a bucket lid). This obviously has to be emptied more frequently. SO- one big chore or lots of little chores. It is a very fulfilling chore though, emptying that bucket... I feel very vital and real doing it. (It is not smelly or gross like one might think. You would be pleasantly surprised). There are some very amazing composting toilet units that make the "chore" part unnecessary. Biolet is one that comes to mind. BUT the units are so pricey that we can't justify it yet. Perhaps someday, our squeamish visitors say...

 

OK- off to make more coffee.. feel free to ask more!

[happygrrl]

Would living off the grid in Texas be crazy impossible? What are the problems associated with living off the grid in Texas? Is the problem that A/C uses up too much electricity? Would a swamp cooler work in West Texas? How deep of a well would you need in West Texas for a water supply? What about rain catchment in San Antonio or further west?

 

Ya know, I do believe it is possible, but required different design. There are a few places I know of in the Hill Country that do it. They utilize traditional building styles: stone, thick walls, orientation towards the breezes, etc. that make the AC unnecessary. Just think, so many people lived there hundreds of years very simply... of course, they weren't trying to AC their four car garages, either! The key would be to research what is going on in your region. Water is your major consideration (though I know of some NM folks that got there property cheap due to *no* water, and do just fine with their intensely designed catchment systems). There is likely a great deal of climate info through the AG extension agent or something, where you could get very specific info for your area to help in designing your system.Many of my neighbors have solar powered wells. You have so very much solar exposure in TX that you can do about anything. Even run an AC, though you would have to have big $$ to have enough energy system to run it! I would just do some local research- googling off grid texas gets you some good info to start with. Most of the stuff is around Austin because that is where the designers and industry is, but that does not mean you have to be in the Hill Country to do it! I am curious to what you find out, do let us know!

 

BTW- did you know Pres. Bush's TX ranch is off the grid?

[happygrrl]

Thanks for PM'ing me! I sent you one back- please feel free to e-mail (or pm) anytime. I love to talk this stuff!

[happygrrl]

What do you do with the water when you are done with it? Do you reuse it anywhere on your land?

 

Thanks!

 

Oops! Forgot to add my 2 latest favorite resources about this: "Create an Oasis with Greywater" by I-forgot-the-author and "Gaia's Garden: A guide to Homescale Permaculture" by Hemenway. Right now our water just runs in to the yard above the garden, but I am in the middle of designing a wetland-type patch that will clean it , then send the water to a mini-pond, that will route into a larger fish pond/ swimming hole. Doesn't that sound cool? I have always wanted a swimming pool, but dreaded all the energy of cleaning it. I am going to let nature do all the work for me! It's all about making each element perform many functions. Oh yeah, i am really into permaculture right now. Don' get me started!!

[WTMindy]

Excuse my ignorance, but does living off-grid just refer to not using public electricity or are there other parts to it also?

[dragons in the flower bed]

Would living off the grid in Texas be crazy impossible? What are the problems associated with living off the grid in Texas? Is the problem that A/C uses up too much electricity? Would a swamp cooler work in West Texas? How deep of a well would you need in West Texas for a water supply? What about rain catchment in San Antonio or further west?

 

Yeah, you could do it, but you'd have to design your building carefully. Insulation, glass ratios, and the positioning of windows would be key to keeping the house cool. You would want to start daydreaming about it by looking at rainfall numbers and wind maps.

[happygrrl]

Yeah, you could do it, but you'd have to design your building carefully. Insulation, glass ratios, and the positioning of windows would be key to keeping the house cool. You would want to start daydreaming about it by looking at rainfall numbers and wind maps.

 

Exactly! There are some beautiful picture-books on Amazon (search off grid home) that have lovely tx homes... it's all about the design.

[happygrrl]

Excuse my ignorance, but does living off-grid just refer to not using public electricity or are there other parts to it also?

 

Technically it means not using public elecrtic company; i.e. not being 'tied in' to the electrical 'grid'. This is often expanded to mean someone who uses no other public services as well, often living a homestead/ rural life. Interestingly, some of the most radical off-grid folks I know live downtown/ urban! I think most off- gridders are rural for a few reasons: in the city there are all sorts of building requirements and restrictions that make self-power difficult, and regular ole' electricity is so cheap that it makes coughing up the $$ for a self power system seem extravagant. My friends own a home in the city, so they generate powere via solar panels. They are still "tied in" (hooked up the company) so that they can sell excess power back to the electric company. Yep, they get a *check* every month instead of a *bill*!! Their panels were mostly purchased through tax credits and local incentives, so they were low cost.

 

We are off-grid because the nearest power line is 3 miles away :). I think we would be off-grid anyway, but the absence of power availability forced our hand sooner. We lived with no power (kerosene lamps) for about 2 years. Solar panels quickly rose to priority status on our list!