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Sahamamama
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:blush: I've been going round and round in circles, getting nowhere. Now I will ask the Hive.

 

Here's my question: What is a realistic amount of time to work each day with one very bright and eager 2nd grader (7.5) and two very bright and energetic (!) Kindergartners (5.5)? When I map out what we need to do next school year in English and Math, I have a few thoughts: (1) I don't want super-long days, and (2) We have to cut something out, and it's not going to be the 3 Rs.

 

If we go year-round, 36 weeks, 5 days per week, even cutting back to the barest-of-bare-bones, is this okay? It adds up to four hours per day:

 

 

  • English (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day
  • Math (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

 

 

 

  • English (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day
  • Math (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

 

 

 

  • Literature RA (Group) -- 45 minutes/day OR Bible (Group) -- 45 minutes/day (2x/week each)

 

 

 

  • Memory Work (Group) -- 15 minutes/day

 

Like I said, I keep going round and round, trying to figure out how to squeeze in History or Science or Latin or something... but then I realize how (1) I don't want super-long days next school year, and (2) I have to cut something out, and it is not going to be the 3 Rs. Sigh.

 

Where do you put History-Geography-Science-Latin-French-Music-and-Art? :001_huh: I keep thinking maybe we should set aside next year to focus on the absolute basics. Is that "allowed?" :D

 

Or, do I need someone out there to tell me, "No, you need to add one more hour to each day, and that's where you put the other subjects." :confused:

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How about you drop Latin? That can wait until they are older.

Play music during meals, do art on the weekend, and listen to history in the car. Put lots of maps up on your walls. I have the usual world and continent maps, and a whole bunch from old travel brochures. I think a good historical atlas would be the bees knees, if there is such a thing.

 

That leaves French. How long will it take you to do that? Can you buy some French movies for them to watch while you are making dinner?

 

Rosie- completely poaching from other people's answers on similar threads. :tongue_smilie:

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How long do you want each day to be? One thought I had was that you won't have to sit there and explain a math concept for an entire hour. You can explain to the 2nd grader, have her start working while you explain to the K, they get started and you go back and check on the 2nd graders work. Would that help?

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we don't do every subject every day. we go like this:

 

Mon - English & Music (lesson) & outdoor activity Tue - English & Math Wed - English & Science Thursday - Math & History Friday - English & Math

 

We do bible straight after breakfast (at the table) and Read Aloud straight after lunch.

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I know you said you didn't want to cut back on the 3 R's, but I think an hour on both math and language arts is a bit much for second grade.

We are currently doing fourth grade and only spend 30-45 minutes a day for each subject. If we have a math or spelling test that day, we only spend 15 minutes.

We school year-round, too, and I find it is so much more efficient to take math and LA in smaller, consistent chunks.

 

Music (unless your students are learning an instrument) can be studied informally by attending (cheap!) concerts, listening to music in the car or during lunch, etc.

Art can be studied at local galleries.

Science and geography are a fun Friday activity.

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I just finished a year with a K and a 2nd grader. We only spent 30 minutes a day on math for the 2nd grader--can you cut this time down or do you really need the full hour? My Ker only did 20 minutes of any subject (we did math, phonics/reading, copywork and memory work. She sat in or not as she chose for science and history.) She really couldn't handle much more than that.

Also could you incorporate history into your read-alouds? Next year I plan to have all our family read alouds be historical fiction about the time period we are studying. Even if you can't fit "official" history, you could sneak it into read aloud time.

I don't think you need an extra hour a day at all, just maybe cut everything down by 5-10 min. (if you think you can keep the same quality of education) and use that extra 30 min to read historical fiction or a bit from a "living" science book. Art and music can be weekend affairs, if you decide to even do that, or like Rosie said--in the car, during meals, or even over the summer next year.

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I would agree with Suzanne, in K we spend 15-20 one math and english each and 20 min on the extras, for a total of an hour a day, but with breaks it took a bit longer :). For second, we spend 30-45 min on math and english each and took about 40 min for the extras, for a total of about two hours a day. On Fridays we took a bit longer if we got involved in an art project, but generally we were done by lunch.

 

I also agree with the PP that you can get your 2nd grader started, then go onto the K'ers while they work independently. History and science should be relatively simple at that age. Read a chapter of SOTW or a page in a science encyclopedia and have them tell you what they learned, it takes 15 min. tops. As for art, you could fold it into history and science. Making a salt dough model of the Nile, is sculpting. Paint a scene in nature or their favorite animal. It's always good to kill two birds with one stone :). Best of luck figuring out what works for your family!

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It all depends on your kids, but those are big chunks of time. My Ker needs some change every 15 minutes or so (unless she is really into something). And you really CAN cover reading and math for K with 15 minutes each a day, once you add in spelling and handwriting it does go up to about 20-30 minutes all together. I didn't believe it until I started doing it. I don't have a 2nd grader, but I doubt you will need an hour, at least for Math. I'd take that extra time and use it for the extra subjects. We do one different "elective" each day and only spend 15-30 minutes on it unless we want to do more.

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How long do you want each day to be? One thought I had was that you won't have to sit there and explain a math concept for an entire hour. You can explain to the 2nd grader' date=' have her start working while you explain to the K, they get started and you go back and check on the 2nd graders work. Would that help?[/quote']

 

:iagree: You reduce your time on the 3rs here. I send one to their room to work on their memory work in the mirror while I start the lessons with the youngest. When she is done w/memory work, she can work on something on her own like a handwriting sheet or copywork or spelling workbook. Once younger one is started on her writing portion, I start the next lesson w/the older. Then they are both working independently. I only have to hover nearby for redirecting when they get to talking or to help.

 

Then I plan one extra subject for the afternoon, an hour a day. 1 day art, 1 day science, 2 days history. Music gets done about once a week whenever I can get it in. Latin is a few minutes in the morning 2 or 3 days a week. I did not start Latin until 3rd grade. Before that any foreign language we did was more for fun and exposure. Once we had Hooked on Spanish on the computer for fun. One dd took a sign language class at coop, etc.

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An hour a day each for math and English seems a lot for second grade. 30 minutes per day on math and English seems like a lot for K, too, BUT I've never dealt with twins or even two kids close in age studying the same subject so I have NO idea how much more time is required when you are teaching two instead of one, know what I mean?

 

When my daughter was in second grade, I think we spent 90 minutes a day total for Saxon math, FLL, Chinese, and a CM style living books approach to history. A couple days a week we'd do something science-y. Most days we spent more time at the park or playing games or out with friends than we did studying. You can see in my sig what she's doing next year - they'll be able to ramp up just fine when it's time, but early elementary isn't the time for heavy academics, IMO.

 

My son will be K next year - I figure we'll spend about 15 minutes a day on math, 15 minutes on phonics, 15 minutes on science (he LOVES science, so it's a priority for us), 5 minutes on Building Thinking Skills, and 10 minutes on Chinese. And that won't be all at once, it's a little bit here and a little bit there.

 

Not sure if this is an issue for you, but it took me a year or so to realize that with little ones, homeschool doesn't have to be all in a chunk - with my daughter, I made her do all her math at once. Of course when her little brain & body got tired, she'd fuss & want to do something else, and I would make her finish, and of course it would take three times as long because we had to fight and fuss! :) With my son, I've learned to do a math meeting activity, then let him go play, then do the main lesson, then let him go play, then do half the worksheet, etc., etc.! If you set everything up the night before, and then have lessons when either a) the kids are climbing on the table asking to do whatever it is you have there or b) you are trying to get something done and they are interrupting you, it happens pretty naturally. You will probably want a little more structure with the second grader, but shorter lessons and frequent play breaks are still helpful. Of course, you have to do what works for you!

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What are you using for K math? We are using McRuffy Color Math and it takes 15 minutes tops. I budgeted 30 minutes, but we NEVER do math that long. Honestly, religion takes about 5-10 minutes, math 15, phonics 5-10, AAS 5-10, handwriting 5 (and I do all of these 4X a week) and we do a 20 minute reading lesson in the evenings. Things take WAY less time than what I had anticipated. We are usually done with "real school" in about 45 minutes or less. We do 30 min of history (3X a week) and 15-30 minutes of science (2X week). We do art once a week for about 30-45 minutes (Artistic Pursuits or painting). We also do music class for about 30 min a week. I do read alouds while the kids are eating lunch and right before bed. We also have a family devotional with a decade of the rosary and a Bible reading after dinner. Honestly, I really don't feel like we do enough school. It is amazing to me how quickly everything gets done.

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:blush: I've been going round and round in circles, getting nowhere. Now I will ask the Hive.

 

Here's my question: What is a realistic amount of time to work each day with one very bright and eager 2nd grader (7.5) and two very bright and energetic (!) Kindergartners (5.5)? When I map out what we need to do next school year in English and Math, I have a few thoughts: (1) I don't want super-long days, and (2) We have to cut something out, and it's not going to be the 3 Rs.

 

If we go year-round, 36 weeks, 5 days per week, even cutting back to the barest-of-bare-bones, is this okay? It adds up to four hours per day:

 

 

  • English (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

  • Math (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

 

 

 

  • English (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

  • Math (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

 

 

 

  • Literature RA (Group) -- 45 minutes/day OR Bible (Group) -- 45 minutes/day (2x/week each)

 

 

 

  • Memory Work (Group) -- 15 minutes/day

 

Like I said, I keep going round and round, trying to figure out how to squeeze in History or Science or Latin or something... but then I realize how (1) I don't want super-long days next school year, and (2) I have to cut something out, and it is not going to be the 3 Rs. Sigh.

 

Where do you put History-Geography-Science-Latin-French-Music-and-Art? :001_huh: I keep thinking maybe we should set aside next year to focus on the absolute basics. Is that "allowed?" :D

 

Or, do I need someone out there to tell me, "No, you need to add one more hour to each day, and that's where you put the other subjects." :confused:

 

This may be a stupid question, but do you already have your curriculum? Have you done the lessons already and know how long they are going to take? I'm wondering specifically about "English"- what does that cover? With my 2nd grader I did WWE (15 minutes every day) and grammar (15 minutes 3 times a week) and even if you did spelling (we chose not to), that would be maybe another 15 minutes, not every day. So I'm not seeing how you would do an hour of English for the 2nd grader.....?

 

What does English entail for the Kers?

 

We do 45 minutes of math.

 

Take a few 15 minutes chunks off here and there and you free up some time for the 'extras'! :)

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I agree.. The math and English times sound long. I spend with my 2nd grader about 45 minutes on English (grammar, writing, spelling, literature), and 30 minutes on math, possibly including our "fun math". History/science are about 30 minutes or less, alternating days.

 

For my preK/K kid, I do math and or phonics while the 2nd grader is doing some work. In fact, I often have all 3 kids at their desks doing "maf", as my 2 year old calls it. :D I use math programs that allow me to go over something and let the kid work on his own. I can often do some ETC with DS2 while DS1 is still working on math. I have their desks right next to each other so I can easily help both kids at the same time.

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:blush: I've been going round and round in circles, getting nowhere. Now I will ask the Hive.

 

Here's my question: What is a realistic amount of time to work each day with one very bright and eager 2nd grader (7.5) and two very bright and energetic (!) Kindergartners (5.5)? When I map out what we need to do next school year in English and Math, I have a few thoughts: (1) I don't want super-long days, and (2) We have to cut something out, and it's not going to be the 3 Rs.

 

If we go year-round, 36 weeks, 5 days per week, even cutting back to the barest-of-bare-bones, is this okay? It adds up to four hours per day:

 

 

  • English (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

  • Math (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

 

 

 

  • English (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

  • Math (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

 

 

 

  • Literature RA (Group) -- 45 minutes/day OR Bible (Group) -- 45 minutes/day (2x/week each)

 

 

 

  • Memory Work (Group) -- 15 minutes/day

 

Like I said, I keep going round and round, trying to figure out how to squeeze in History or Science or Latin or something... but then I realize how (1) I don't want super-long days next school year, and (2) I have to cut something out, and it is not going to be the 3 Rs. Sigh.

 

Where do you put History-Geography-Science-Latin-French-Music-and-Art? :001_huh: I keep thinking maybe we should set aside next year to focus on the absolute basics. Is that "allowed?" :D

 

Or, do I need someone out there to tell me, "No, you need to add one more hour to each day, and that's where you put the other subjects." :confused:

 

Throwing out rough ideas as they occur to me:

You could rotate your literature read-alouds to cover some History. Or add in books on CD (Story of the World?) during non-school time. Geography - look up the places you read about on a globe or map. Music - could you outsource lessons? On Fridays plan to look at art books sometime during that 45 minutes. Or make Fridays the day you spend the afternoon doing science instead of RA. Alternate it with art. Or every 6 weeks, take a break from your usual schedule and spend some time doing units of science. I think for K and grade 2, some fun exposure to History, Geography, Science, Art and Music is plenty. Nothing's coming to me about Latin or French.

 

Just wanted to say four hours a day are plenty, and focusing on the 3 Rs will pay huge dividends later on. I think your plan is realistic. YMMV.

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Good advice so far, and try to fold your language arts into your science and history and literature. So, for instance, find the IR books in SOTW1's AG, and have them both read them. Get some harder books for the second grader as well, and also read them SOTW. Join a science or natural history museum or a zoo and go twice a month for at least half a day, and then go to the library and look for books about the topics that you notice there, and include those in reading aloud.

 

Read aloud to them for fun. Get a big box of Kapla blocks, at least 500, and have them build things while you read to them--not for 'school' but for fun. If you read them some books that 'continue' and that are far beyond their own reading levels, their vocabulary and ability to express themselves will grow immeasurably.

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If those are "sitting at the table doing workbook" times--like 1 hour/day for math--my experience has been that that is a lot for that age. My boys would not focus for that length, and in the early years I have a strong bias towards short lessons (15-20 mins, tops) a la Charlotte Mason, who pretty much advises you to change things up once their attention wanders. Put another way, I wanted my kids to develop "work when it's time to work" skills, so 15 minutes of totally focussed productive time--which will gradually lengthen over the years--was far more desirable to me than an hour of dawdling. JMO, of course.

 

That said, I am sure we actually did spend around that amount of time each day on those subjects, but the time was not all workbook/curriculum time. Reading math stories like the MathStart series, playing a game like Sum Swamp, watching Mathtacular DVDs, measuring things around the house, cooking, shopping, playing with patterns, tangrams, drawing geometric shapes, doing logic puzzles and games, etc. all are math too, and we'd do them on and off just living out life. Same with language arts--there were the workbook pages, but also fun read alouds during the day (picture books), chapter books before bed, audio books in the car, writing grandma a thank you note or birthday wish, the boys creating their own plays and stories to show my hubby and I, going to kids' theatre...you get the idea.

 

So times seem fine if you are including a variety of methods / materials and its broken up (not one 4 hour long chunk), but otherwise seems long to me for that age. I would also consider doing some subjects on a M/W/F schedule and others T/Th if you find you can't fit everything in.

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Thanks for all the GREAT feedback so far! The times were my "rough estimate" of the total spent per kid, per day, per subject -- not exactly "how long she'll sit there doing worksheets." We do break it up for all our subjects, especially math, with games, hands-on, drill, singing math songs and so on. So she's really not getting crushed with it, honestly! :001_smile:

 

The total for English was basically a rough guess as to how long we might spend each day on all of English -- handwriting, copywork & dictation, spelling, grammar, mechanics, composition, reading, and vocabulary (WW 3000, which I might skip in favor of simply reading more). My oldest is a hard worker, she doesn't dawdle too much, ;) but she's not exactly lightning quick, if you KWIM?

 

I do agree, though, it might be more like 45 minutes for English 2nd grade and more like 45 minutes for Math 2nd grade. So that buys us an "extra" half hour.... but read on. The time estimates for Kindergarten-with-energetic-twins are probably low, so that eats up the half hour. Everything with two takes longer, sort of. Really, in the end, it will be what we make it, but I don't want to short-change my twins.

 

I suppose that's what this post boils down to: I don't want to put so much on our plates that I short-change my beautiful twin daughters. They are so wonderful and so bright... I would rather "do less," if in so doing, they are able to "learn more" of the foundation they need all the way through. So... here's the new, improved, updated, "Hive-Minded" plan:

 

 

  • English (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes total/day
  • Math (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes total/day

 

 

 

  • English (2nd Grade) -- 45 minutes total/day
  • Math (2nd Grade) -- 45 minutes total/day

 

 

 

  • Bible (Group) -- 30 minutes/day
  • Memory Work (Group) -- 15 minutes/day

 

 

 

  • Read Aloud (Group) -- 45 minutes/day (Literature, Poetry, History, Science, Art)

 

Once again, thank you for the feedback and good suggestions. I'm taking notes on all the tips. :D

Edited by Sahamamama
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Thanks for all the GREAT feedback so far! The times were my "rough estimate" of the total spent per kid, per day, per subject -- not exactly "how long she'll sit there doing worksheets." We do break it up for all our subjects, especially math, with games, hands-on, drill, singing math songs and so on. So she's really not getting crushed with it, honestly! :001_smile:

 

The total for English was basically a rough guess as to how long we might spend each day on all of English -- handwriting, copywork & dictation, spelling, grammar, mechanics, composition, reading, and vocabulary (WW 3000, which I might skip in favor of simply reading more). My oldest is a hard worker, she doesn't dawdle too much, ;) but she's not exactly lightning quick, if you KWIM?

 

I do agree, though, it might be more like 45 minutes for English 2nd grade and more like 45 minutes for Math 2nd grade. So that buys us an "extra" half hour.... but read on. The time estimates for Kindergarten-with-energetic-twins are probably low, so that eats up the half hour. Everything with two takes longer, sort of. Really, in the end, it will be what we make it, but I don't want to short-change my twins.

 

I suppose that's what this post boils down to: I don't want to put so much on our plates that I short-change my beautiful twin daughters. They are so wonderful and so bright... I would rather "do less," if in so doing, they are able to "learn more" of the foundation they need all the way through. So... here's the new, improved, updated, "Hive-Minded" plan:

 

  • English (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes total/day
  • Math (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes total/day

 

  • English (2nd Grade) -- 45 minutes total/day
  • Math (2nd Grade) -- 45 minutes total/day

 

  • Bible (Group) -- 30 minutes/day
  • Memory Work (Group) -- 15 minutes/day

 

  • Read Aloud (Group) -- 45 minutes/day (Literature, Poetry, History, Science, Art)

Once again, thank you for the feedback and good suggestions. I'm taking notes on all the tips. :D

 

Respectfully, I would suggest a longer total read aloud time, but broken up into 2-3 segments. Really, 2 hours would not be too much. Consider--morning reading: 20 minutes of a chapter book you have going. After lunch--a variety, including science and history, for probably an hour. Bedtime--another 45 minutes to one hour. That's not really a ton of reading, and it's SO valuable!

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Respectfully, I would suggest a longer total read aloud time, but broken up into 2-3 segments. Really, 2 hours would not be too much. Consider--morning reading: 20 minutes of a chapter book you have going. After lunch--a variety, including science and history, for probably an hour. Bedtime--another 45 minutes to one hour. That's not really a ton of reading, and it's SO valuable!

 

Thanks, Carol. Yes, we do break up the RA, and our Bible time is basically a read aloud and/or telling stories with the felt board. Sometimes the girls even get dressed in Bible-era costumes and re-enact the stories. ;)

 

We could spend 15-20 minutes in the morning reading aloud chapter books. We're going through Betsy-Tacy, Winnie the Pooh, and more this year. They love chapter books.

 

We read every day after lunch for at least 45 minutes, then they take a nap and I get a break.

 

As for bedtime reading, I hate to admit this, but it's simply not a reality here anymore. It used to be, but with my husband's crazy work schedule and his commute and his (how do I put this?) need for a peaceful evening, our basic approach has been to make our evenings as smooth as possible. If I read aloud to the girls before bedtime, he would fall asleep standing up, poor guy. He just needs to get them to bed sooner, KWIM?

 

He resigned from his job today, though, because he found a much better one, so we'll see what's in store for us in the future. :001_smile:

 

Thanks for the encouragement to keep Read Aloud as a major feature of our days. I get so much guilt because from one direction you hear, "HISTORY! History is the central subject!" and from another you hear, "SCIENCE! Science must take priority in the homeschool!" and from yet another you hear, "MATH! Don't let your child fall behind in math!"

 

:001_huh: But I keep coming back to the reality that they are only going to be in Kindergarten (two of them) and 2nd Grade. And I have this conviction that at this point, LANGUAGE is important. Listening, speaking, reading, writing, telling stories, reciting poems and Bible verses, singing, audiobooks, read alouds -- these are the things to which we will devote ourselves, along with Math and Bible. I appreciate the input from everyone here.

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I just wanted to add that focusing on the basics is just fine for now. If you give your young students a solid foundation in english and math then they will be able to pick up the science/history/art/music knowledge later.

 

I did sotw at the beginning and I have to say that my dd didn't remember that much when we did ancients again this year. She remembered a few activities but not much for the amount of time we spent on it.;) Once your girls are reading independently they pick up all sorts of information.

 

Just keep making strong foundations and reading to them lots.

 

HTH

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History and literature can sometimes be combined, too. Include books tied to your topic! I think our lit selections drive retention for my kids, beyond what I think is even necessary for grammar stage history.

 

If you realize subjects are intertwined instead of requiring separate chunks of time, it is far more do-able.

 

Jen

http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/

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Let me give an example:

 

Look at this map here: when Roman soldiers weren't fighting, they had to work on engineering projects for the army. One of the things they did was to build this long road, from here... To here.... To here.... Called the Appian Way. To build this road, they (construction materials, what road was used for). Let DC color in a map of Italy with the Appian Way while you read a story about Rome. Then, "Let's figure out how long this road was! This town and this town are xxx miles apart; then these two are yyy miles apart, so this road, so add those up for me? Wow, built without bulldozers or cranes, the Appian Way was about zzz miles long!"

 

You just covered geography, history, literature, and applied 2nd grade math in one very memorable lesson!

 

Jen

http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/

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:blush: I've been going round and round in circles, getting nowhere. Now I will ask the Hive.

 

Here's my question: What is a realistic amount of time to work each day with one very bright and eager 2nd grader (7.5) and two very bright and energetic (!) Kindergartners (5.5)? When I map out what we need to do next school year in English and Math, I have a few thoughts: (1) I don't want super-long days, and (2) We have to cut something out, and it's not going to be the 3 Rs.

 

If we go year-round, 36 weeks, 5 days per week, even cutting back to the barest-of-bare-bones, is this okay? It adds up to four hours per day:

 

 

  • English (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

  • Math (Kinder/2 students) -- 30 minutes/day

 

 

 

  • English (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

  • Math (2nd Grade) -- 1 hour/day

 

 

 

  • Literature RA (Group) -- 45 minutes/day OR Bible (Group) -- 45 minutes/day (2x/week each)

 

 

 

  • Memory Work (Group) -- 15 minutes/day

 

Like I said, I keep going round and round, trying to figure out how to squeeze in History or Science or Latin or something... but then I realize how (1) I don't want super-long days next school year, and (2) I have to cut something out, and it is not going to be the 3 Rs. Sigh.

 

Where do you put History-Geography-Science-Latin-French-Music-and-Art? :001_huh: I keep thinking maybe we should set aside next year to focus on the absolute basics. Is that "allowed?" :D

 

Or, do I need someone out there to tell me, "No, you need to add one more hour to each day, and that's where you put the other subjects." :confused:

 

Well, I see you have literature RA for an hour each day. I use SL and that is where our literature, history and science would come in and it probably wouldn't take an hour. Personally, I wouldn't start a language so early, but obviously lots of others do. Art is something that could be done once a week or once every other week. I like Atelier and it is going to be on sale 40% off mid-July at the Homeschool Buyers Coop.

 

Lisa

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