A Pragmatic Question About IQ Testing

[EKS]

I had good service from them this year. I used the ITBS and CogAT.

I had questions a couple of different times & called & emailed & they were very helpful and professional.

 

Very pleased.

 

Did you have to sign something saying that you homeschool?

[Dana]

Did you have to sign something saying that you homeschool?

 

I don't believe so.

You have to have a BA/BS and there are some state restrictions:

 

Administrator Requirements: B.A. or B.S. degree

Restrictions: Is not available for NJ (Grades 8-9), SC (Grade 2), and Dallas ISD.

 

From here.

 

When I bought the materials, I did have to say I had a BA but I didn't have to produce any documentation. I don't recall any statement when I filled out the purchase order that said I homeschooled (but it likely wouldn't have registered if I did).

 

I do think that if there were a homeschool only requirement, they'd have it listed.

 

I am not in NC, so that wasn't an issue. I know NC requires testing annually, so the two testing companies I've used (Triangle & Bayside) are both out of NC.

[Nart]

Thank you for the inside view. I think we will need back-up plans A, B, C and D.

 

I'm not even sure if the Highly Gifted Magnet is where we would hope to be. The regular Middle School was dismal, but here is a GATE track as well. It was Portola (are you familiar?).

 

Anyway I appreciate the advice. I hate caring about these sorts of things as I largely question the relevance of these tests and think they are rather inconsequential. Until they become consequential by potentially limiting options. And then I have to care. Meh.

 

Bill

 

It is unfortunate that there are several really good elementary schools and high school programs in LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District) , but adequate Middle School options are lacking. I have heard of Portola, one of the problems of Portola and many other middle schools in LAUSD is that it is a huge school. There will be over 600 students in just 6th grade! Then you are looking at class sizes that are 35 to 39 students for core academics like math and language arts in Honors classes. (Don't be fooled if you are told average class sizes are less, since the lowest performing students are placed in classes with fewer students, while the highest performing students are in classes that are packed.)

 

If your looking for schools in LAUSD you should look at this website that lists academic progress over time. So they look at test scores in terms of how much growth occurred in each subject overall compared to where students tested previously.

http://portal.battelleforkids.org/bfk/LAUSD/home.html?sflang=en

So you can find a higher performing middle school but then realize that the students are not advancing as much as at other schools. The easiest subject to really look at is Algebra. The top math students will take Algebra in 7th grade at some schools in LAUSD, so you can see how those students perform. So much depends on the quality of the teacher, and you can't predict which teacher your child will have. There are some amazing teachers in lower performing schools, and some terrible ones in higher performing schools.

 

I have somewhat of the same situation where I live, elementary schools are great with several options, middle schools are mediocre, and then there are quite a few high school choices. We are saving up so we can either home school the middle school years (first choice) or pay for private school.

 

And I wanted to clarify something another poster said about independent assessments. ALL districts across the country have to consider independent evaluations for special education assessments since it is part of Federal Law in IDEIA, but districts do not have to accept private testing to qualify for Gifted Programs, that is left up to each district. Students with disabilities have extensive rights and protections under federal laws, while gifted students have very few rights.

 

Additionally, LAUSD does not administer IQ tests to students as part of an assessment for special education, instead alternative measures are used, so even if you requested a special education evaluation you wouldn't get the results of an intelligence test like the WISC-IV. The WISC-IV is only administered as part of an evaluation to be designated Gifted, and it is rarely used (the Raven's is usually administered).

 

Good luck in your search. Have you seen the website devoted to getting in and understanding Magnet Schools in LA? http://askamagnetyenta.wordpress.com/middle-schools-help/

Edited June 10, 2011 by Nart

[jenbrdsly]

It is unfortunate that there are several really good elementary schools and high school programs in LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District) , but adequate Middle School options are lacking. I have heard of Portola, one of the problems of Portola and many other middle schools in LAUSD is that it is a huge school. There will be over 600 students in just 6th grade! Then you are looking at class sizes that are 35 to 39 students for core academics like math and language arts in Honors classes. (Don't be fooled if you are told average class sizes are less, since the lowest performing students are placed in classes with fewer students, while the highest performing students are in classes that are packed.)

 

If your looking for schools in LAUSD you should look at this website that lists academic progress over time. So they look at test scores in terms of how much growth occurred in each subject overall compared to where students tested previously.

http://portal.battelleforkids.org/bfk/LAUSD/home.html?sflang=en

So you can find a higher performing middle school but then realize that the students are not advancing as much as at other schools. The easiest subject to really look at is Algebra. The top math students will take Algebra in 7th grade at some schools in LAUSD, so you can see how those students perform. So much depends on the quality of the teacher, and you can't predict which teacher your child will have. There are some amazing teachers in lower performing schools, and some terrible ones in higher performing schools.

 

I have somewhat of the same situation where I live, elementary schools are great with several options, middle schools are mediocre, and then there are quite a few high school choices. We are saving up so we can either home school the middle school years (first choice) or pay for private school.

 

And I wanted to clarify something another poster said about independent assessments. ALL districts across the country have to consider independent evaluations for special education assessments since it is part of Federal Law in IDEIA, but districts do not have to accept private testing to qualify for Gifted Programs, that is left up to each district. Students with disabilities have extensive rights and protections under federal laws, while gifted students have very few rights.

 

Additionally, LAUSD does not administer IQ tests to students as part of an assessment for special education, instead alternative measures are used, so even if you requested a special education evaluation you wouldn't get the results of an intelligence test like the WISC-IV. The WISC-IV is only administered as part of an evaluation to be designated Gifted, and it is rarely used (the Raven's is usually administered).

 

Good luck in your search. Have you seen the website devoted to getting in and understanding Magnet Schools in LA? http://askamagnetyenta.wordpress.com/middle-schools-help/

 

That's really good information. Thank you for posting!

[mchel210]

The school district will not accept private IQ testing results. I asked. It has to be a "one time" district administered IQ test.

 

Bill

Our school district was thankful that we had ours. They said it saved them the year of waiting for approvals. They accepted my gifted testing for both my girls when they had been in K and 2 grade. I would try calling the ESE coordinator for your district and see what they have to say.

[Spy Car]

It is unfortunate that there are several really good elementary schools and high school programs in LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District) , but adequate Middle School options are lacking. I have heard of Portola, one of the problems of Portola and many other middle schools in LAUSD is that it is a huge school. There will be over 600 students in just 6th grade! Then you are looking at class sizes that are 35 to 39 students for core academics like math and language arts in Honors classes. (Don't be fooled if you are told average class sizes are less, since the lowest performing students are placed in classes with fewer students, while the highest performing students are in classes that are packed.)

 

Your assessments are spot-on!

 

A huge school population with over-crowded classes. Budget cuts are even threatening the only foreign language program (Spanish).

 

The "work" being done in the "regular" classes was a joke. I left feeling very depressed. Portola is our "home" school. So we will definitely be looking at our options (and why we are starting to look now, with a rising second grader).

 

If your looking for schools in LAUSD you should look at this website that lists academic progress over time. So they look at test scores in terms of how much growth occurred in each subject overall compared to where students tested previously.

http://portal.battelleforkids.org/bfk/LAUSD/home.html?sflang=en

So you can find a higher performing middle school but then realize that the students are not advancing as much as at other schools. The easiest subject to really look at is Algebra. The top math students will take Algebra in 7th grade at some schools in LAUSD, so you can see how those students perform. So much depends on the quality of the teacher, and you can't predict which teacher your child will have. There are some amazing teachers in lower performing schools, and some terrible ones in higher performing schools.

 

Thank you for that link, I was unaware of this website but will go look.

 

One of the options we are considering (at this time) is the Math Academy at Millikan Middle School. Are you familiar?

 

There will be any brain-cells to be fried in the coming years, but after the excellent elementary school experience we are enjoying the LAUSD Middle School options look bleak.

 

I have somewhat of the same situation where I live, elementary schools are great with several options, middle schools are mediocre, and then there are quite a few high school choices. We are saving up so we can either home school the middle school years (first choice) or pay for private school.

 

The worst case scenario we send him Middle School in relatively near-by Oak Park (where his grandmother lives).

 

And I wanted to clarify something another poster said about independent assessments. ALL districts across the country have to consider independent evaluations for special education assessments since it is part of Federal Law in IDEIA, but districts do not have to accept private testing to qualify for Gifted Programs, that is left up to each district. Students with disabilities have extensive rights and protections under federal laws, while gifted students have very few rights.

 

Additionally, LAUSD does not administer IQ tests to students as part of an assessment for special education, instead alternative measures are used, so even if you requested a special education evaluation you wouldn't get the results of an intelligence test like the WISC-IV.

 

The "special education" angle is probably a non-starter in any case. While I have no doubt that many highly-gifted children have some legitimate issues that go along with their intellect, it just isn't the case with my son. He flys below the radar in many ways, he's very outgoing, popular, as is ready to go along with the program.

 

The permanent substitute teacher who recently took over the class (do to a maternity leave) did tell me the other day (in hushed tones) that she doesn't like to say it to parents because they may take it the wrong way, but that "William really seems to excel when the work gets especially challenging."

 

Thanks agin for your input!

 

Bill

[Crimson Wife]

Additionally, LAUSD does not administer IQ tests to students as part of an assessment for special education, instead alternative measures are used, so even if you requested a special education evaluation you wouldn't get the results of an intelligence test like the WISC-IV.

 

Parents have the right under IDEA to request specific tests be administered and can reject the district's proposed evaluation plan if the requested tests are not part of it and go to due process. The district might go to the expense & hassle of fighting it at the due process hearing but for something like administering an IQ test, I don't think most would. I'm not familiar with LAUSD, however.

[Caroline]

I just wanted to say (and offer no help whatsoever, but maybe a little camaraderie) keep fighting the good fight. We moved to get our son into the middle school we thought he needed to be in. Our elementary school was awesome. The high school was good due to its magnet program. The middle school was dismal academically and gang infested socially. The middle school we moved to was great. Even in the one academic on-level class my son took, the teacher gave him the accelerated assignments.

 

Your assessments are spot-on!

 

A huge school population with over-crowded classes. Budget cuts are even threatening the only foreign language program (Spanish).

 

The "work" being done in the "regular" classes was a joke. I left feeling very depressed. Portola is our "home" school. So we will definitely be looking at our options (and why we are starting to look now, with a rising second grader).

 

 

 

 

[serendipitous journey]

... I haven't read _all_ the other posts, and this is off the main stream of the conversation so please ignore if not helpful, but I had some thoughts RE the actual test. It seems that, esp. since you are convinced of the child's exceptional aptitude, testing well should become part of his educational plan. The Critical Thinking company folks have lots of mainstream materials in this direction; I'm sure other parents have better ideas along this line, since my littles are just starting out. You can also have him take some tests, visit the physical location of the testing, and preferably meet the person who will be administering the test. In my experience boys have one advantage on standardized tests (which sometimes backfires, like all advantages I suppose): they are more willing to treat the test like a game, which it is; it's a big puzzle. If he can focus but not get bogged down by glitches or mental blocks, it will help enormously. It should be fun, like doing something well that you are awfully good at.

 

Research indicates that persons who believe they are in a high-testing group, relative to other testers, perform better. So inculcating that belief can't hurt, but of course there's the problem of maintaining humility ...

 

Also, since this is high-stakes testing, you prob. can't start too early on teaching the child that these tests are not measures of his self, even of his "real" IQ, but are gateways/barriers to certain goals. I think this helps with performance as well as with Life After Testing if he doesn't perform to the target level. And you can build humility/character with a high-performing tester :)

 

best of luck,

ana

[Runningmom80]

... I haven't read _all_ the other posts, and this is off the main stream of the conversation so please ignore if not helpful, but I had some thoughts RE the actual test. It seems that, esp. since you are convinced of the child's exceptional aptitude, testing well should become part of his educational plan. The Critical Thinking company folks have lots of mainstream materials in this direction; I'm sure other parents have better ideas along this line, since my littles are just starting out. You can also have him take some tests, visit the physical location of the testing, and preferably meet the person who will be administering the test. In my experience boys have one advantage on standardized tests (which sometimes backfires, like all advantages I suppose): they are more willing to treat the test like a game, which it is; it's a big puzzle. If he can focus but not get bogged down by glitches or mental blocks, it will help enormously. It should be fun, like doing something well that you are awfully good at.

 

Research indicates that persons who believe they are in a high-testing group, relative to other testers, perform better. So inculcating that belief can't hurt, but of course there's the problem of maintaining humility ...

 

Also, since this is high-stakes testing, you prob. can't start too early on teaching the child that these tests are not measures of his self, even of his "real" IQ, but are gateways/barriers to certain goals. I think this helps with performance as well as with Life After Testing if he doesn't perform to the target level. And you can build humility/character with a high-performing tester :)

 

best of luck,

ana

 

 

Wow, that's great advice for all of us!

[LittleIzumi]

I don't believe so.

You have to have a BA/BS and there are some state restrictions:

 

Administrator Requirements: B.A. or B.S. degree

Restrictions: Is not available for NJ (Grades 8-9), SC (Grade 2), and Dallas ISD.

 

From here.

 

When I bought the materials, I did have to say I had a BA but I didn't have to produce any documentation. I don't recall any statement when I filled out the purchase order that said I homeschooled (but it likely wouldn't have registered if I did).

 

I do think that if there were a homeschool only requirement, they'd have it listed.

 

I am not in NC, so that wasn't an issue. I know NC requires testing annually, so the two testing companies I've used (Triangle & Bayside) are both out of NC.

 

Y'all are a bad influence. I may or may not have ordered one of the various tests from Triangle Assessments for dd... just to see.... :p

[Elizabeth in WA]

Anyone happy to be homeschooling at this point in my tale of woe? :D

 

 

I haven't finished reading the thread, but had to comment here... our experience with public school GATE programs is what finally led e to commit to homeschooling the rest of the way through instead of making schooling decisions yearly.

 

As for testing, I had one test as HG on the WISC-IV at 6 and one at 8. (Of my other children, one has a fascinating, but not HG, test profile related to Asperger's syndrome and expressive (but not receptive) language delays, and the other has never taken the WISC-IV) The CogAT was better correlated to WISC-IV for my more verbal child than for my more mathy child. And, the last GATE program I had to deal with piled on a tremendous amount of work and homework such that it seemed to me and my child to punish kids for being gifted. GATE should be accelerated and perhaps compacted, but not just a vastly increased volume of moderately advanced work imnsho.

[twoforjoy]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, or if it's at all useful, but if you have a university nearby, you might want to see if their school of ed or psych department provides IQ testing. Many times grad students in those areas need to be trained in administering the tests, and so free testing is available to those willing to participate. When my DH was in grad school (in the psych department, although he wasn't clinical and so he didn't do any testing himself) he used to get e-mails looking for kids to come in for various tests all the time. We brought out son in for a couple of different things, although never an IQ test. They always made it fun, and the students got some training hours in.

 

I realize that it sounds like that sort of thing wouldn't count for admission criteria in a lot of districts, but it could be a way to get a baseline assessment, or to just familiarize your child with the kind of testing being done.

[HappyCamper]

We live in the same area as you (close to Portola and Oak Park). My son (now 10 years old) was in a slightly different situation because his public elementary school was not working out for him. In second grade, we had him tested privately (Stanford-Binet) and he scored well above what was needed to qualify for LAUSD's highly gifted program. We used those scores to apply to The private highly-gifted school in our neighborhood. When he was tested by LAUSD, maybe because it was the WISC and not the S-B, maybe he had an off day, but he came achingly close, but did not make the cut for HG programs.

Maybe it worked out for the best, he is thriving socially, academically and emotionally at the private HG school. In retrospect, I wish I would have had him privately tested with the same test as LAUSD before the LAUSD test. I wasn't strategic about it at all and it was, for us, an expensive test to just barely miss the cut. FWIW, I know a Portola student who is in their gifted magnet and he is quite happy there- in the honors jazz band,etc.

Good luck!

[zaichiki]

My daughter had a different problem at that age. She would know the right answer, but if there was an animal or something else she liked in any of the other answers, she would pick that anyway because "I like animals." :lol::lol:

 

Or... you might have a problem like we did. Dd decided to "trick the lady, Mama." Yeah... I had to call the psychologist who was giving the test and let her know that my dd was boasting about having tricked her while we were in the car on the way home. (Seems dd got bored...)

[zaichiki]

When I asked her about that particular section of testing, her relply was that she had a reasonable answer for each choice she made (finding a common theme among three pictures) but she hadn't been asked.

 

:lol::lol: When my dd was tested, the psychologist pointed out to me that she thought dd didn't really trick her. She suspected dd didn't actually understand the directions. (Dd was able to describe her reasoning and also ended up scoring as gifted in spite of this, so I doubt this lady's explanation.) Dd was supposed to do something like the above scenario: choose 3 pictures that belonged together or shared some characteristic or something. Apparently the pictures she chose were not the expected answers, but dd later remembered some of the matches and explained why she chose them. In one case all three items were "shiny."

[Donna]

:lol::lol: When my dd was tested, the psychologist pointed out to me that she thought dd didn't really trick her. She suspected dd didn't actually understand the directions. (Dd was able to describe her reasoning and also ended up scoring as gifted in spite of this, so I doubt this lady's explanation.) Dd was supposed to do something like the above scenario: choose 3 pictures that belonged together or shared some characteristic or something. Apparently the pictures she chose were not the expected answers, but dd later remembered some of the matches and explained why she chose them. In one case all three items were "shiny."

 

We had a similar experience. The tester came out of the room telling me dd was a very "out of the box" thinker. In a number of sections, like the one where they had to group items, dd gave answers that made complete sense when she explained them but weren't the accepted (ie. scorable) answers for the test.

 

She tested gifted but it seemed strange to me that there was no way to score creative thinking on an IQ test.

[Dmmetler]

I heard the same thing-that DD had very "creative" answers, but was able to justify them completely, so the tester believed that we had to take that score as a minimum because it wasn't reflective of what DD was actually doing.

 

DD also drove her Kindergarten teacher crazy when the poor woman had to do end of year testing, because DD's response was "You know I know this" and she'd give silly answers. The poor teacher finally gave her the end of year tests for a couple of grades up so -and THAT DD was willing to do.

[Tiramisu]

:lol::lol: When my dd was tested, the psychologist pointed out to me that she thought dd didn't really trick her. She suspected dd didn't actually understand the directions. (Dd was able to describe her reasoning and also ended up scoring as gifted in spite of this, so I doubt this lady's explanation.) Dd was supposed to do something like the above scenario: choose 3 pictures that belonged together or shared some characteristic or something. Apparently the pictures she chose were not the expected answers, but dd later remembered some of the matches and explained why she chose them. In one case all three items were "shiny."

 

Yes, we are talking about the same test.

 

We had a similar experience. The tester came out of the room telling me dd was a very "out of the box" thinker. In a number of sections, like the one where they had to group items, dd gave answers that made complete sense when she explained them but weren't the accepted (ie. scorable) answers for the test.

 

She tested gifted but it seemed strange to me that there was no way to score creative thinking on an IQ test.

 

I always think of dd as an "out of the box thinker".

 

I heard the same thing-that DD had very "creative" answers, but was able to justify them completely, so the tester believed that we had to take that score as a minimum because it wasn't reflective of what DD was actually doing.

 

DD also drove her Kindergarten teacher crazy when the poor woman had to do end of year testing, because DD's response was "You know I know this" and she'd give silly answers. The poor teacher finally gave her the end of year tests for a couple of grades up so -and THAT DD was willing to do.

 

Memories here of a teacher who told me, her answers are right just not the ones I expect.

 

I wish there were a way I could have just that part of the test re-done. It's such a puzzle. Figuring this out would help determine if dd has a tendency toward giftedness or a learning disability.:glare:

 

I guess knowing the real score wouldn't change our every day anyway.;)

[catz]

We had a similar experience. The tester came out of the room telling me dd was a very "out of the box" thinker. In a number of sections, like the one where they had to group items, dd gave answers that made complete sense when she explained them but weren't the accepted (ie. scorable) answers for the test.

 

She tested gifted but it seemed strange to me that there was no way to score creative thinking on an IQ test.

 

Super interesting. I have had my kid tested on oral achievement and he oftens answers questions in an unexpected way with an explanation behind it. That's a good reason to have a plan B, C, D if plan A is to have a child that needs to perform a certain way one day. Especially if the device is a group test.

 

Now that I have a 10 year old who has been tested no less than 6 times on different devices, I can see how testing doesn't define a kid. It's a snap shot of that moment in time and can reflect mood, boredom, etc. My 10 year old just tested on the oral Peabody achievement. This is open ended K-12. The first 2 sections done for him were math and spelling. He answered enough questions correctly to get to 11th grade level in both sections. Then he basically threw in the towel and tested ahead of grade level in the other areas, but not nearly as high as what we had seen given previous years scores, academics for the year, and Explore scores. The tester also has no experience with GT kids and let him basically quit. His reading comp scores always end up deceptively low due to out of the box thinking. I'm glad he has nothing riding on one particular set of scores at this point in his life.

[elizabeth]

Aaack. Gifted testing. Three things I know are true. The Weschler was not even designed to test for giftedness and most kids who are pg will hit the ceiling early on. Waste of time, money and useless. We learned nothing of any import except this....The kind Dr laughed when I told her the school would accomodate our young lady depending on the scores. She told us to prepare for home education as the local school had nothing to offer nor would they even try. She was right on all counts. Secondly, I love home education and would never, ever suggest that a pg child be educated in an institutional setting. Thirdly, it simply cannot be done except in the X Men world. Why you ask? Statistics alone define the issue. A teacher cannot teach 15-20 children who are within a normal range of ability or one standard deviation from the mean and then try to approach the one who is two or more standard deviations from the norm . They work alone anyway so what is the point?? I am pissed beyond belief that my parents were not able to educate me at home. School was hellish and dull. I had no real friends until college and then the whole world opened up. That is my experience take it for what it is worth. Stanford Binet testing is available in some quarters and can actually capture the full range of giftedness. Not what you wanted to hear but I do not do subtle well. :lol: If you want testing come to the Belin Blank Center or at least use them as a resource , they are wonderful and pro working within the system. http://www.education.uiowa.edu/belinblank/ The director is amazing. You might find some great approaches to working with the school there. And you can eat at this wondrous place.

http://www.hamburginn.com/ The finest diner ever. Patchouli and funny brownies abound. My people.

[Runningmom80]

The weschler test, well the WISC anyways, has added extended norms, so it can get those extreme outlier kids. Let me rephrase that, it has the ability to get those kids, does it always? Probably not. My ds has taken both the wppsi and the sb-v, and scored virtually the same, within one point. So I do think they are relatively similar enough that you could use either. I know some kids have big differences between the two, so it may be highly individual.

 

I've read that once you get into 99th percentile land, all bets are off with iq testing, it's simply too difficult to discern between those fractions of a percent.

 

 

Iq testing, at best, is an estimation, so any score needs to be taken with a large grain of salt. And added to a portfolio of other info, like achievement testing.

 

I do have to agree with the pp, no institution is going to be very good at educating a pg kid. There are some exceptions I'm sure, and there are schools that cater to pg, but I bet there are less than 5 in the whole country.

 

My experience: My son is not pg. He doesn't test at pg anyways, pretty close, but not that magic 145. He is supposed to be starting at a school for gifted children in the fall. The way the bell curve works, most of the kids score close to the cut off score. My son scores 13 points above that, almost a full standard deviation. Ive heard that he will still be an outlier, since the class will be geared toward the majority. It would be leaps and bounds better than a regular ps setting, but is it enough? Hard to say. Add in asynchronous development, and it's looking like homeschooling will serve him better.

 

All this to say, iq tests are a snapshot on that particular day, and only one piece of your child's puzzle.

[Donna]

The kind Dr laughed when I told her the school would accomodate our young lady depending on the scores. She told us to prepare for home education as the local school had nothing to offer nor would they even try. She was right on all counts. Secondly, I love home education and would never, ever suggest that a pg child be educated in an institutional setting. Thirdly, it simply cannot be done except in the X Men world. Why you ask? Statistics alone define the issue. A teacher cannot teach 15-20 children who are within a normal range of ability or one standard deviation from the mean and then try to approach the one who is two or more standard deviations from the norm

 

The tester in our case, who tests gifted children regularly, also told me homeschooling is the best option for dd...that there was no way she would ever "fit" in a public school setting. She said they would never be able to accomodate enough to challenge her properly.

 

I understood completely what she meant. I had plenty of experience myself going through public school where their idea of gifted education was giving more of the same kind of work rather than advancing you, letting you read when you were finished in half the time it took the rest of the class, or a little pull out class once a week where you got to learn interesting things occasionally.

[Runningmom80]

The tester in our case, who tests gifted children regularly, also told me homeschooling is the best option for dd...that there was no way she would ever "fit" in a public school setting. She said they would never be able to accomodate enough to challenge her properly.

 

I understood completely what she meant. I had plenty of experience myself going through public school where their idea of gifted education was giving more of the same kind of work rather than advancing you, letting you read when you were finished in half the time it took the rest of the class, or a little pull out class once a week where you got to learn interesting things occasionally.

 

We had a similar experience, the tester said DS would be "a fish out of water," at a public school. That wasn't very comforting to hear! :lol:

[catz]

We had a similar experience, the tester said DS would be "a fish out of water," at a public school. That wasn't very comforting to hear! :lol:

 

My son's first grade teacher recommended pulling my son out of school. At the time we were so frustrated. But turns out that was a huge gift. Homeschooling is a much better fit for him. My kid actually enjoyed school socially very much, but when academics came out he couldn't stand it.

[Elizabeth in WA]

He doesn't test at pg anyways, pretty close, but not that magic 145.

 

Quick o/t: Is 145 pg? I thought 145 was hg... I have two who test there and always though they were highly, but not profoundly, gifted.

[catz]

Quick o/t: Is 145 pg? I thought 145 was hg... I have two who test there and always though they were highly, but not profoundly, gifted.

 

I think 145 is the DYS minimum and corresponds to the 99.9%, so that number gets thrown around quite a bit these days.

[zaichiki]

I think 145 is the DYS minimum and corresponds to the 99.9%, so that number gets thrown around quite a bit these days.

 

It depends on the test. A 145 on the WISC-IV is not the same thing as a 145 on the SB-5. Check out this link for more info. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

[Spy Car]

I think 145 is the DYS minimum and corresponds to the 99.9%, so that number gets thrown around quite a bit these days.

 

The coordinator of the Highly Gifted Magnet threw the 145 number out there as her estimate of the 99.9% threshold.

 

Bill

[Runningmom80]

Quick o/t: Is 145 pg? I thought 145 was hg... I have two who test there and always though they were highly, but not profoundly, gifted.

 

 

It depends on what test they took, the new tests are standardized, and stop at 160. If they took an older test, like the SB-LM, that goes up to 200, the levels are different. :)

[Runningmom80]

It depends on the test. A 145 on the WISC-IV is not the same thing as a 145 on the SB-5. Check out this link for more info. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

 

 

The whole SB-V vs WISC thing is confusing to me, I'll admit. I've read lots of info that GT kids score higher on the WISC, even though it's supposed to be a similar measure. :confused: As I said before, my DS scored the same thing on both the WPPSI, and the SB-V, although his scores fell quite differently on both. He had a big spread between Verbal and Performance on the WPPSI, and on the SB-V his verbal and non verbal were exactly the same. Still scratching my head about that one!

 

Also, that hoagies chart has Ruf as the deciding factor of the SB-V levels, and her levels confuse me anyways, :lol: so I don't really put stock in it.

There is a lot of overlap with the scores in her levels. My DS tested with the SB-V yesterday, and according to that chart could be in either the EG or PG range. So do I just get to pick one? :)

 

All I know is DYS, and another school for PG kids we were looking at said 145 on the SB-V is PG, which he did not get. (I'm not bitter or anything, hate to keep harping on it! He got an excellent score, and in the end it doesn't matter, because I walked out with the same charismatic, hilarious, brilliant boy I walked in with. IQ is just a number, I only tested because an educational opportunity required it :001_smile:)

[jenbrdsly]

I just wanted to throw out there that some public school districts do have exceptional programs for EG/PG kids. When I grew up in the San Diego school system they had regular GATE classes, as well as Seminar classes, which were supposed to be for the "gifted of the gifted".

I was in a 3rd/4th combo, and a 5th/6th combo of only 18 kids with a specially trained teacher. We had moon rocks in our classroom (under lock and key), went to J.P.L. on a field trip, and performed Macbeth. My seminar middle school experience was like a prep school in public school, Latin included. Everything was free of course, and my teachers were amazing.

We need to lobby all of our lawmakers for more programs like this. Even if you didn't give the programs extra money, just homogenously grouping these kids together makes a big difference. I'm still friends with a lot of my old Seminar buddies, and it was so wonderful to grow up with them as my peers.

[Kathleen.]

My now 7yo had to take an IQ test as part of the application process for the school she attends. She was only 5 and she wasn't nervous or stressed out like a little bit older kid might be. It was with a private psychologist and it was all kid friendly.

[Runningmom80]

Yes, my 4 yo took two, about 7 months apart. He thought they were fun games both times. I think at the younger ages you can be more vague about what they are doing. I don't think you can BS an 8 year old that they are going "to play fun puzzle games and see how your brain works." :lol:

[Guest leland]

Post deleted d/t double post by accident.

Edited June 27, 2011 by leland
Post deleted d/t double post by accident.

[Guest leland]

In response to your question:

 

"So my question is what age/hallmarks of development or other issues should a parent consider before having their child tested."

 

There is no definitive answer. It's totally up to you the parent to decide if and when to have your child's IQ tested. However, the Cattell Infant Intelligence Scale measures the IQ of children as young as 2 months.

 

This website has a Kids IQ Test

for ages 3 - 15. I hope this helps.

 

On another note, I posted this same reply a few minutes ago; however, I did not see where the post was entered. Please forgive me if this comes out as a double post.

[LittleIzumi]

In response to your question:

 

"So my question is what age/hallmarks of development or other issues should a parent consider before having their child tested."

 

There is no definitive answer. It's totally up to you the parent to decide if and when to have your child's IQ tested. However, the Cattell Infant Intelligence Scale measures the IQ of children as young as 2 months.

 

This website has a Kids IQ Test

for ages 3 - 15. I hope this helps.

 

On another note, I posted this same reply a few minutes ago; however, I did not see where the post was entered. Please forgive me if this comes out as a double post.

 

Interesting. The first link you provided doesn't seem to promote the Cattell as predictive of later IQ scores, at least in the younger part of the spectrum.

 

Cattell Reliability and Validity

 

At three months, the reliability estimate obtained by the split-half method and corrected by the Spearman-Brown formula was 0.56. Correlating those scores obtained at three months with scores at 36 months on Form L of the Stanford-Binet resulted in a value of only 0.10. Thus, the scores at age three months show neither statistical reliability or predictive validity. For 6, 9, and 12 months the split-half reliability coefficients were .88, .86, and .89, respectively, and correlations with the Stanford-Binet at 36 months were .34, .18, and .56, respectively. Although reliability estimates reach acceptable levels, the predictive validity scores do not.

[Carpe]

In response to your question:

 

"So my question is what age/hallmarks of development or other issues should a parent consider before having their child tested."

 

There is no definitive answer. It's totally up to you the parent to decide if and when to have your child's IQ tested. However, the Cattell Infant Intelligence Scale measures the IQ of children as young as 2 months.

 

This website has a Kids IQ Test

for ages 3 - 15. I hope this helps.

 

On another note, I posted this same reply a few minutes ago; however, I did not see where the post was entered. Please forgive me if this comes out as a double post.

 

I'm not convinced you read the OP.

[mom-2-1]

Thanks DMMETLER---Great idea! I'm going to look into entrance testing at our local private schools asap:-)