Saxon users: 8/7 or pre-algebra??

[Aura]

Long-time lurker coming out with a question for those who have done Saxon 7/6 through pre-algebra.

 

My son is currently in 7/6. He's flown through it. I should have just put him in the 8/7 as that was his grade level, but it was our first year in Saxon and I thought it would be better to start with. I'm seriously thinking that was a mistake.

 

Considering that my ds is good in math and has no problems at all with Saxon (he likes this better than the CLE we were doing), is it possible to skip 8/7 and go directly to pre-algebra w/o getting overwhelmed? I feel like he's not being challenged at all.

 

I'm thinking of giving him the placement tests again, but I'd love some opinions from those who've actually done Saxon.

 

Thanks!!

Aura

[gingersmom]

My daughter did part of 7/6 and it was so easy she skipped to 8/7 with no problem. She is currently doing Algebra 1.

 

I was under the impression that the pre-algebra book is for kids who struggled with 8/7 and need some extra time/practice before Algebra 1.

 

If your child is strong in math I would pick one or the other but not do both.

[Teachin'Mine]

What grade is he in?

 

I'm thinking that if 7/6 was really a breeze and that was below his actual grade level, then he might do better to get 8/7 now. He can do just the tests and when he starts to hit topics he hasn't gotten to - or gets below an 85 on the test, then start doing the lessons there. We found most of 8/7 to be a repeat of 7/6, and while it really cements pre-algebra that might not be necessary for your son. The last 30 lessons or so are completely new and more challenging material - or at least it was for my dd. If you start with the 8/7 now, you should have it finished by the fall and can begin algebra I then.

 

As was said, for most students you do either 8/7 or Algebra 1/2, but not both.

[mjbucks1]

I will sort of duplicate what others have said in that you would not necessarily need to do both books. My ds went from 7/6 to Alg 1/2 (then Alg I and Alg II) and has done fine. However, I am having my dd do 8/7. I will see how she does with 8/7 and then decide if she should go to Alg 1/2 or Alg 1. For us, I thought she would do better with the same format as 7/6, as well as the additional timed tests (Alg 1/2 is set up the same as Alg 1 as far as presentation). If your ds has done very well, you can go with either book, but Alg 1/2 may be better :confused:. However, you can go into Alg I after using either 8/7 or Alg 1/2, so you might want to check the topics covered in each book and see which would be best.

 

Blessings,

Michelle

[JudoMom]

The order of the books if you're using the most current edition is:

 

7/6

8/7

Alg. 1

 

If a student struggles with 8/7, then they do Alg. 1/2. 8/7 contains Pre-Algebra.

 

Also, the placement tests aren't accurate if your student has been using Saxon.

[Gailmegan]

Saxon guru Art Reed explains the purpose of each level, and discusses which edition in his February 2010 newsletter:

 

http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2010-all.php#0210

 

According to his expert opinion, if your son gets 85% or better on the last 6 tests of 76 then he should move to Algebra 1/2. Otherwise he should proceed to 87.

 

I was actually asking this exact question a month or two ago, since my son is breezing through 76; that's why i have the info right at the top of my head.

[Aura]

Thanks, ya'll! You've all been so helpful, especially w/ the link, Gailmegan.

 

Ds is almost done w/ 7/6 now, only about 10 lessons left, so it looks like he's going on into Algebra 1/2. We do a 40-week school year, with breaks spread throughout the year. No one, long summer break for us, so he's definitely going to be needing a new book well before next year.

 

Again, thank ya'll so much! I wasn't aware of doing either 8/7 or Alg. 1/2, so that really helps me.

[Ellie]

Thanks, ya'll! You've all been so helpful, especially w/ the link, Gailmegan.

 

Ds is almost done w/ 7/6 now, only about 10 lessons left, so it looks like he's going on into Algebra 1/2. We do a 40-week school year, with breaks spread throughout the year. No one, long summer break for us, so he's definitely going to be needing a new book well before next year.

 

Again, thank ya'll so much! I wasn't aware of doing either 8/7 or Alg. 1/2, so that really helps me.

If he's using current editions, he would do Math 87, not Alg. ½, after completing Math 76.

[HollyDay]

Give the placement test. It will differentiate between 87 and 1/2

[Ellie]

Give the placement test. It will differentiate between 87 and 1/2

You only use the placement test if your dc will be going into Saxon for the first time. You don't use it to decide whether to do Math 87 or Alg. ½.

 

With the current editions, if a child zooms through Math 76 with at least an 80% average on the tests, he goes to Math 87, then Alg. 1. If he struggles through with less than 80%, he goes to Alg. ½ then Alg. 1.

 

With earlier editions it was the opposite: 80% with Math 76, followed by Alg. ½, then Alg. 1; less than 80% with Math 76, then Math 87 followed by Alg. 1.

[Mom0012]

See Art Reed's February 2010 newsletter for info on the correct progression with Saxon http://www.usingsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2010-all.php#0210. I've been studying it to try to determine what I'm going to use with my daughter once we finish up CLE.

 

Lisa

[Ellie]

See Art Reed's February 2010 newsletter for info on the correct progression with Saxon http://www.usingsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2010-all.php#0210. I've been studying it to try to determine what I'm going to use with my daughter once we finish up CLE.

 

Lisa

I sort of think that going with the publisher's recommendation is a pretty good rule of thumb. :001_smile:

[Gailmegan]

Not trying to argue at all, but I always assumed Art Reed and the publisher would be on the same page. He speaks of John Saxon like he knows him. Why would he recommend something different than the publisher? Wasn't Saxon recently purchased? Is there a conflict I'm not aware of? :confused:

[Mom0012]

I sort of think that going with the publisher's recommendation is a pretty good rule of thumb. :001_smile:

 

Ellie, I don't know what edition the OP is using. Are you saying Art Reed recommends the opposite of what the publisher does? That would be kind of surprising. Do you happen to have a link to the publisher's recommendations? I'm trying to figure this all out for my daughter now so that I can buy ahead while I have some extra funds available.

 

Lisa

[mjbucks1]

I'm not Ellie, but I did copy this from the publishers web site:

 

"The recommended path after finishing Math 7/6 is to take Math 8/7. If your child finishes Math 8/7 with at least 80% mastery, skip ahead to Algebra 1. In previous editions, many people skipped Math 8/7 because they found it to be a weaker text than Algebra ½. In the newer third edition, pre-algebra has been added to Math 8/7, making it a much stronger program. "

 

Art Reed states that if your child gets better than an 85% on the last 6 tests of 7/6 to move to Alg 1/2. I think either book will prepare your child for Alg I. It appears that 8/7 has more review combined with the pre-algebra topics. While my older son went from 7/6 to Alg 1/2 to Alg1 and did just fine, I am having dd do 8/7 because I feel she needs more practice (even though her test scores have averaged 90+). Personally, if your child is breezing through 7/6 (and to me this would mean working every problem and only missing 3-4 AND getting 85% or above on tests, then you could go with Ald 1/2. If you have any doubt, go with 8/7. Your child will have more review, but will still be prepared for Algebra. Just my 2 cents :D.

 

Blessings,

Michelle

[Brenda in FL]

I'm not Ellie, but I did copy this from the publishers web site:

 

"The recommended path after finishing Math 7/6 is to take Math 8/7. If your child finishes Math 8/7 with at least 80% mastery, skip ahead to Algebra 1. In previous editions, many people skipped Math 8/7 because they found it to be a weaker text than Algebra ½. In the newer third edition, pre-algebra has been added to Math 8/7, making it a much stronger program. "

 

Art Reed states that if your child gets better than an 85% on the last 6 tests of 7/6 to move to Alg 1/2. I think either book will prepare your child for Alg I. It appears that 8/7 has more review combined with the pre-algebra topics. While my older son went from 7/6 to Alg 1/2 to Alg1 and did just fine, I am having dd do 8/7 because I feel she needs more practice (even though her test scores have averaged 90+). Personally, if your child is breezing through 7/6 (and to me this would mean working every problem and only missing 3-4 AND getting 85% or above on tests, then you could go with Ald 1/2. If you have any doubt, go with 8/7. Your child will have more review, but will still be prepared for Algebra. Just my 2 cents :D.

 

Blessings,

Michelle

 

And here's the link to the FAQ at the Saxon Homeschool website: What do you recommend for students after they have completed Math 7/6?

 

It's interesting that in his newsletter referenced above he says that 87 was not changed at all - but the publisher says it has. At any rate - you aren't adding any extra years if you choose 87 over Algebra 1/2.

 

Trying to think critically and from a "marketing" perspective: I hope when they say pre-algebra has been added - that they didn't mean literally the words to the cover!! :tongue_smilie:

 

I will say that my son did well through 76 but 87 has been really a struggle! I don't know if it's significantly more difficult, if it's puberty, or that wall that I have heard some kids face when they get to higher level Saxon. Sometimes I wish we had gone straight to Alg 1/2, but then I think - if this is a struggle - then he needed the extra year of math concepts!

[Mom0012]

I'm not Ellie, but I did copy this from the publishers web site:

 

"The recommended path after finishing Math 7/6 is to take Math 8/7. If your child finishes Math 8/7 with at least 80% mastery, skip ahead to Algebra 1. In previous editions, many people skipped Math 8/7 because they found it to be a weaker text than Algebra ½. In the newer third edition, pre-algebra has been added to Math 8/7, making it a much stronger program. "

 

Art Reed states that if your child gets better than an 85% on the last 6 tests of 7/6 to move to Alg 1/2. I think either book will prepare your child for Alg I. It appears that 8/7 has more review combined with the pre-algebra topics. While my older son went from 7/6 to Alg 1/2 to Alg1 and did just fine, I am having dd do 8/7 because I feel she needs more practice (even though her test scores have averaged 90+). Personally, if your child is breezing through 7/6 (and to me this would mean working every problem and only missing 3-4 AND getting 85% or above on tests, then you could go with Ald 1/2. If you have any doubt, go with 8/7. Your child will have more review, but will still be prepared for Algebra. Just my 2 cents :D.

 

Blessings,

Michelle

 

Thanks, Michelle! That's helpful.

 

Lisa

[Clover11]

 

I'm thinking of giving him the placement tests again,

 

 

 

Also, the placement tests aren't accurate if your student has been using Saxon.

 

:iagree: The placement tests are only to be used for 'first time users'. You will not get accurate results if you have your ds take it now.

[krstbrwn]

The order of the books if you're using the most current edition is:

 

7/6

8/7

Alg. 1

 

If a student struggles with 8/7, then they do Alg. 1/2. 8/7 contains Pre-Algebra.

 

Also, the placement tests aren't accurate if your student has been using Saxon.

 

:iagree: I may be wrong, but I thought they came out with Algebra 1/2 first and then with 8/7. I have used both books, and 8/7 contains pre-algebra. 8/7 is laid out like the elementary math books, while Algebra 1/2 is laid out like the Algebra series. In other words, in the Algebra 1/2 book, there is no box that contains the conceptual practice like in the 8/7 book. It is just the concept taught and then the problems. I only used the Algebra 1/2 book because it was given to me, and I did not know about the 8/7 book or that is was pre-algebra. Like you, my son was breezing through 7/6, he was bored. I didn't waste any time moving him into 8/7. We are doing Algebra 1 in 7th grade this year, and he is fine. I hope I'm not giving you misinformation, this is just my experience.

[regentrude]

Trying to think critically and from a "marketing" perspective: I hope when they say pre-algebra has been added - that they didn't mean literally the words to the cover!!

 

We used Saxon 8/7 and it contained enough pre-algebra so that my children received a solid foundation and could successfully move on to AoPS Algebra.

[Teachin'Mine]

We used 8/7, since it was the next book in the series, and the preparation was excellent. In hindsight, I'm glad we used this instead of algebra 1/2 because it has the mental math, facts drills, and the format is what they know. If algebra 1/2 is lighter on review, I'd definitely go with 8/7 as repetition is the key to mastery in early math IMO.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[ilovemy4kids]

Saxon guru Art Reed explains the purpose of each level, and discusses which edition in his February 2010 newsletter:

 

http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2010-all.php#0210

 

According to his expert opinion, if your son gets 85% or better on the last 6 tests of 76 then he should move to Algebra 1/2. Otherwise he should proceed to 87.

 

I was actually asking this exact question a month or two ago, since my son is breezing through 76; that's why i have the info right at the top of my head.

 

:iagree: This is exactly what I was going to say!

[Clover11]

Sorry, I clicked on the wrong link.

 

Thanks for popping in! :001_smile:

[Moni]

We do both books.

 

It's never any fun to Hit The Wall in Algebra in Chapter 5.

It doesn't matter which publisher book is used, it always seems to be "Chapter 5"

 

If it's "that easy" the student can do two lessons a day, six days a week and finish a book in less than three months. Nice review.

 

If it turns out it wasn't So Easy After All, then you can slow down Student's Pace :)

 

 

 

:seeya:

Edited May 7, 2011 by Moni

[momee]

Wow. This is confusing. I have Art Reed's book and spoke with him personally about the editions we have, the blue one for Alg 1/2. He said if my child was doing well in 7/6 she could move on to 1/2. If not, she needed to do 8/7.

 

That seems contradictory to what a few of you are saying.

 

And to the mom having trouble with 8/7 wondering if it's adolescent behavior? We had the same problem. I kept making my son go back through and he's way behind in math and feels like a failure at it. Hindsight, when those hormones kicked in, I needed to be there more, checking problems every day, going over lessons much more to ensure he was getting it. Not giving him space and letting him work that stuff out behind a closed door thinking he was just changing and maturing.

Whoops. Live and learn, but his younger siblings will find mom a lot more in their space than their brother did. And! we'll be doing math through the summer :)))))

Edited May 17, 2011 by momee

[Brenda in FL]

And to the mom having trouble with 8/7 wondering it it's adolescent or what? We had the same problem. I kept making my son go back through and he's way behind in math and feels like a failure at it. Hindsight, when those hormones kicked in, I needed to be there more, checking problems every day, going over lessons much more to ensure he was getting it. Not giving him space and letting him work that stuff out behind a closed door thinking he was just changing and maturing.

Whoops. Live and learn, but his younger siblings will find mom a lot more in their space than their brother did. And! we'll be doing math through the summer :)))))

 

That would be and my son!! And you are spot on - I need to be constantly following up with him. The good news - he recently said, "You're right mom, if I'm not distracted, I can get this done in an hour!"

[mjbucks1]

And! we'll be doing math through the summer :)))))

 

You are not the only one :D. DS (13) hit a wall in Saxon Algebra II, around lesson 70 (maybe there is something about those adolescent boys....LOL!!!!). I had him back up about 10-12 lessons and re-do ALL the problems and the tests (even though he had done well on the tests up to that point). I am so glad we did this. And glad that my son has a teachable spirit and understood why we had to do this :D. We do math through the summer anyway, but trim it to 1/2 a lesson a day to avoid burn out. DD has started 8/7 and it does have a lot of review, but she is only finishing 5th grade, and I really felt that she would benefit from more review and timed tests!

[SaxonHomeschool]

I guess this is as good a time as any for a first post, since this is a question that comes up a lot!

 

Our (the publisher's) recommendation is that students should take Math 8/7 after completing Math 7/6, and if they do well (80% mastery or better), they are ready to move on to Algebra 1. The reasons for this include the format, the review of basic math concepts, and the option to take Algebra 1/2 if you are not ready for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

We don't have a problem with Art's recommendation, since many people prefer Algebra 1/2 over Math 8/7 for one reason or another. And looking at them side by side should help you find the one you prefer.

 

The key is that both books are designed to prepare students for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

I hope you don't mind me popping on from time to time when a question like this arises. Y'all are great about answering each other's questions, but I know sometimes it helps to get it straight from the horse's mouth!

[Clover11]

I guess this is as good a time as any for a first post, since this is a question that comes up a lot!

 

Our (the publisher's) recommendation is that students should take Math 8/7 after completing Math 7/6, and if they do well (80% mastery or better), they are ready to move on to Algebra 1. The reasons for this include the format, the review of basic math concepts, and the option to take Algebra 1/2 if you are not ready for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

We don't have a problem with Art's recommendation, since many people prefer Algebra 1/2 over Math 8/7 for one reason or another. And looking at them side by side should help you find the one you prefer.

 

The key is that both books are designed to prepare students for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

I hope you don't mind me popping on from time to time when a question like this arises. Y'all are great about answering each other's questions, but I know sometimes it helps to get it straight from the horse's mouth!

 

Thanks!

[gingersmom]

I guess this is as good a time as any for a first post, since this is a question that comes up a lot!

 

Our (the publisher's) recommendation is that students should take Math 8/7 after completing Math 7/6, and if they do well (80% mastery or better), they are ready to move on to Algebra 1. The reasons for this include the format, the review of basic math concepts, and the option to take Algebra 1/2 if you are not ready for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

We don't have a problem with Art's recommendation, since many people prefer Algebra 1/2 over Math 8/7 for one reason or another. And looking at them side by side should help you find the one you prefer.

 

The key is that both books are designed to prepare students for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

I hope you don't mind me popping on from time to time when a question like this arises. Y'all are great about answering each other's questions, but I know sometimes it helps to get it straight from the horse's mouth!

 

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[FloridaLisa]

I guess this is as good a time as any for a first post, since this is a question that comes up a lot!

 

Our (the publisher's) recommendation is that students should take Math 8/7 after completing Math 7/6, and if they do well (80% mastery or better), they are ready to move on to Algebra 1. The reasons for this include the format, the review of basic math concepts, and the option to take Algebra 1/2 if you are not ready for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

We don't have a problem with Art's recommendation, since many people prefer Algebra 1/2 over Math 8/7 for one reason or another. And looking at them side by side should help you find the one you prefer.

 

The key is that both books are designed to prepare students for Algebra 1 the following year.

 

I hope you don't mind me popping on from time to time when a question like this arises. Y'all are great about answering each other's questions, but I know sometimes it helps to get it straight from the horse's mouth!

 

Is this Saxon the publisher or a rep? I thought Saxon was based out of Orlando, not Austin, Tx. ??

 

Also, to Saxon Publishing, if both Alg. 1/2 and 8/7 prepare for Alg. I, what is the difference and why two books? We've always gone from 7/6 to Alg. 1/2 to Alg. I. But if a student is using the new books, when should Alg. 1/2 and 8/7 be used?

 

THanks,

Lisa

Edited May 23, 2011 by FloridaLisa

[melmichigan]

The Saxon publisher site says 7/6 then 8/7, if mastered then Algebra I with the current editions. This leaves 1/2 in the case of children who need extra time before Algebra I. This is also what my Saxon rep says.

[Brenda in FL]

I thought I saw a reply to the publisher's comments from someone titled TheSaxonTeacher where they asked the publisher to explain what they meant by their comment on "minimal mastery." TheSaxonTeacher then came back and explained how one could tell if a student is prepared for the next book whether it be Math 87 or Algebra 1/2.

 

Somewhere in another post that person also said there was no difference between the lessons and investigations in the second and third editons of the Math 87 book.

 

That was several days ago and I do not see it anymore. The publishers never answered the question. Then I came back to this site to see a post by TheSaxon teacher about Saxon Geometry Credits and now I cannot find that information either.

 

The information provided by TheSaxonTeacher in those several posts on Math 87 and Algebra 1/2 sure helped me make a decision about which Saxon math book to use next and I wanted to ask them another question. They were not advertising and had nothing to sell like the Saxon rep has. TheSaxonTeacher discemminated accurate information as far as I could see.

 

What is going one? Does someone on the board or a moderator have some sort of hang-up or grudge against TheSaxonTeacher?

 

Strange conduct.

 

DJ

 

ASaxonTeacher, TheSaxonTeacher, and Art Reed are no longer on the members list. I suspect they were all Art Reed and his posts violated the No Advertising Rule. That's my guess.

[SaxonHomeschool]

Doris, to your most recent question, after there were some accounts removed a couple weeks ago for advertising, the moderator clarified the policy on publishers, saying that they are welcome on the board to address specific product questions. I decided that would be a good opportunity to address the occasional question that comes up on the board.

 

Saxon has customer service reps in Orlando, but our primary office staff is in Austin, TX.

 

Lisa, Math 7/6 and Algebra 1/2 were both created before Math 8/7, and Math 8/7 was originally created out of a desire to bridge the gap between the two books. In its first edition, Math 8/7 was considered to be not much of a step up from Math 7/6, so many people skipped it and went straight on to Algebra 1/2. So Math 8/7 was strengthened, and the second and third editions much more closely resemble Algebra 1/2. This is why there are two books. The main difference is that Math 8/7 is formatted like our middle grades books, with Investigations and daily warm-up activities, while Algebra 1/2 looks more like our Algebra 1 book with more introductory content. There are people who prefer either book for various reasons--they both provide preparation for Algebra 1 and will both continue to be available.

 

Doris, I hope this helps. It is not our intention to advertise, and we don't have any opinions on what stays and what gets deleted. (I thought the advice was helpful, and I'm assuming the deletion was because of previous activity.) If you have questions that come up about the Saxon program, you can always send them to info@saxonhomeschool.com.

[FloridaLisa]

Doris, to your most recent question, after there were some accounts removed a couple weeks ago for advertising, the moderator clarified the policy on publishers, saying that they are welcome on the board to address specific product questions. I decided that would be a good opportunity to address the occasional question that comes up on the board.

 

Saxon has customer service reps in Orlando, but our primary office staff is in Austin, TX.

 

Lisa, Math 7/6 and Algebra 1/2 were both created before Math 8/7, and Math 8/7 was originally created out of a desire to bridge the gap between the two books. In its first edition, Math 8/7 was considered to be not much of a step up from Math 7/6, so many people skipped it and went straight on to Algebra 1/2. So Math 8/7 was strengthened, and the second and third editions much more closely resemble Algebra 1/2. This is why there are two books. The main difference is that Math 8/7 is formatted like our middle grades books, with Investigations and daily warm-up activities, while Algebra 1/2 looks more like our Algebra 1 book with more introductory content. There are people who prefer either book for various reasons--they both provide preparation for Algebra 1 and will both continue to be available.

 

Doris, I hope this helps. It is not our intention to advertise, and we don't have any opinions on what stays and what gets deleted. (I thought the advice was helpful, and I'm assuming the deletion was because of previous activity.) If you have questions that come up about the Saxon program, you can always send them to info@saxonhomeschool.com.

 

Interesting reply by "The Publisher." Does not this fella Art Reed also have a publishing company? Yes, they both sell something so why one on-line and not the other? Homeschool educators should have access to any and all experienced people who can legitimately answer their questions.

 

I have been observing the back and forth comments about which book to use when and I oticed that SaxonHomeschool (aka "the publisher") remained mute while TheSaxonteacher was providing advice and assistance. Now that the voice of TheSaxonTeacher has been silenced, "The Publisher" returns and seemingly give historical advice about which book was published first.

 

I just went to a neighbors's house who uses Saxon math books and compared the second and third editions of Math 87. TheSaxonTeacher was correct, the two editions are identical in all 120 lessons and 12 investigations. Also, the older second edition was first released in Jan of 1999 which means the first edition of Math 87 was nore than likely out at the same time as the older edition of Math 76.

 

What has all this historical data got to do with selecting the appropriate level math books for a student? Or answering home school educators questions?

 

I will get off my soap box!

 

A Retired Math Teacher

 

Wow. This is just weird. I can't tell who is who anymore.

 

I think I'd rather just contact the publisher or curriculum provider when I have a question, than have them leaning over our shoulder everytime their product name pops up on Google search.

 

Lisa

Edited May 24, 2011 by FloridaLisa

[Teachin'Mine]

SaxonHomeschool is the Saxon publisher. ARetiredMathTeacher is Art Reed, or at least I think that's a reasonable assumption. I don't think this board has any problem with a provider giving helpful information, it's when they start their own threads in an effort to advertise themselves that it becomes a problem. Just from what I've seen.

 

I think calling the publisher is always a good idea. That's what I did when I didn't know whether to go from 8/7 to algebra 1/2 or to algebra 1. I followed their advice and am glad I did. I just wish they had told me they were getting ready to release their geometry text when I called and asked that specific question. :confused: I'm guessing they thought of it as insider information or thought I was from a "competitor". We survived the other geometry text though. :D

 

This must be the time of year that a lot of people decide on next year's curricula because I've noticed a lot of providers, in areas other than math, are on here posting. They usually just post on other things, but it does put their name out there too.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[krstbrwn]

I wonder how long it will take ARetiredMathTeacher's post to disappear?:D:DI think I'll stay out of this one.

[Teachin'Mine]

I tend to be ridiculous. I could also make a guess at who you may be, but I won't. Honestly, I have heard wonderful things about the person in question and I have no beef with him at all. I was just answering the question asked. I think the moderators would be able to shed more light if that is indeed what's needed. Peace. :)

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I called Saxon and asked them this question directly when I had the same issue.

 

They advised me to NOT skip 8/7 but skip the pre-algebra (algebra 1/2) instead. Algebra 1/2 was created for those who needed more practice after 8/7 before entering Algebra 1. If they complete 8/7 with no issue Algebra 1/2 is not needed.

 

So we did 8/7 but skipped algebra 1/2 and went directly into Algebra 1 with no problem.

[Mom0012]

I think I see what is going on.

 

I googled "Art Reed" and all kinds of information came up to include a book he has published on how to correctly use and benefit from the Saxon math books.

 

From reading several of his news articles, you are correct, he does disagree with the new owners of John Saxon's old publishing company which by the way is not Saxon Publishers, but Houghton-Mifflin Harcourt. So I went to their site and it is extremely challenging to find a specific Saxon dedicated telephone number. You have to call a general number.

 

Unless I am not very computer literate, here is what a few minutes of searching got me under their "Customer Service" link for Saxon:

 

Saxon Math Extended Challenge

Saxon Math K-4 Lesson Planner

Saxon Math K-4 Teacher's Resource CD

Saxon Teacher Lesson and Test CD

Saxon Teacher's Manual eBook

 

And no telephone number.

 

So why would this tremendous homeschool resource (WTM) silence someone who has over a qarter of a century experience in using John saxon's math books - including several of those as a math curriculum advisor for both Saxon Publishers and later for the new owners of Saxon as well.

 

So why would anyone accuse this RetiredMathTeacher as being be Art Reed? Because he is questioning why someone was removed? Has anyone emailed this person and asked them or are we just going to assume that anyone who disagrees with the new owners of Saxon math must be Art Reed.

 

How ridiculous is that.

 

Doris

 

Unless Art Reed has changed gender, I can assure you that I am not he!

 

I wouldn't mind hearing from Art Reed, but there have been a number of posts where he has posed as someone else. That is really unprofessional. I had been planning on using his dvds with Saxon for my daughter when we get to higher math, but his behavior on this board is really making me think maybe we won't.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

Interesting reply by "The Publisher." Does not this fella Art Reed also have a publishing company? Yes, they both sell something so why one on-line and not the other? Homeschool educators should have access to any and all experienced people who can legitimately answer their questions.

 

I have been observing the back and forth comments about which book to use when and I oticed that SaxonHomeschool (aka "the publisher") remained mute while TheSaxonteacher was providing advice and assistance. Now that the voice of TheSaxonTeacher has been silenced, "The Publisher" returns and seemingly give historical advice about which book was published first.

 

I just went to a neighbors's house who uses Saxon math books and compared the second and third editions of Math 87. TheSaxonTeacher was correct, the two editions are identical in all 120 lessons and 12 investigations. Also, the older second edition was first released in Jan of 1999 which means the first edition of Math 87 was nore than likely out at the same time as the older edition of Math 76.

 

What has all this historical data got to do with selecting the appropriate level math books for a student? Or answering home school educators questions?

 

I will get off my soap box!

 

A Retired Math Teacher

 

I don't even get what this means or what the relevance is to choosing 8/7 versus 1/2.

 

Lisa

[[email protected]]

Just to clarify:

 

Mr. Reed was not "silenced." He was asked not to advertise his services on this board, per board policy. He was then asked not to post under different identities. He was banned because of failure to follow board rules.

 

We regret the necessity.

 

We ask all curriculum providers and all those who offer paid services to consult the board rules, and to email a moderator if there is any confusion.

 

We also regret that DorisJ, RetiredMathTeacher, and TheSaxonTeacher all have the same IP address, so it appears that trolls have been active.

 

Moderator

Edited May 24, 2011 by Moderator

[melmichigan]

When working on my wishlist on RR today I noticed that when you click on Saxon 1/2 they have a disclaimer that states "If student is strong in 8/7 than can skip Algebra 1/2. This seems in line with what I have been told by Saxon (the publisher of the books ;)). There is no comment when you click on 8/7 that I noticed.

[JSnow]

I realize this is an old forum, but I wanted to add my thoughts. I tutor both 8/7 and Algebra 1/2. I use the third editions. Both books cover pretty much the same thing, however, the 8/7 book draws explanations out quite a bit and Alg. 1/2 gets right to the point. What I find is that a lot of parents try to put their kids in Algebra 1 in 8th grade and that's simply not the right course for EVERY student. Not all students are ready for Algebra 1 in 8th grade and so they struggle with math for the rest of their high school career and because they will likely need a math course in college, the struggle can continue. 

 

If a student is not really "mathy" then it helps to give them an extra year to get the basic foundations down and feel very confident going into Alg. 1 freshman year. This is what I recommend: If a 6th grade student has excelled in math and obviously has the basics down, do Alg. 1/2 (It's not frustrating for a solid math student). If a student just can't seem to get the concepts and continues to make the same mistakes, do 8/7. If still not solid, move on to Alg 1/2, then Alg. 1.

 

I guess what is most important here is that Saxon gives you the opportunity to get the fundamentals down before jumping into Alg 1. If your child struggles in math - take the opportunity.