How do YOU define rigor?

[AuntPol]

I see this word thrown around quite often! Everytime I see it, I think of the quote from Princess Bride, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

For example, on an Ambleside threads, I hear that Ambleside is not rigorous in math and science. I think to myself what is more "rigorous?" What do people mean by rigor?

 

Is it time spent?

Is it number of curriculums used?

Is it a particular method?

Is it requirement of higher thinking?

Is it the amount of seat work or Writing?

Other?

[Crimson Wife]

Upping the challenge level. Not doing page after page of mindless "busywork" but actually making the student have to think.

[SeekingSimplicity]

The first thing that came to my mind when you said rigor was rigor mortis. LOL BUt after reading the post I would say requires a higher level of thinking than is standard

[Jane in NC]

I think that I may be able to answer this question with regard to Mathematics.

 

Here rigor (or rigour for our Canadian friends) relates not only to content but on the matter of presentation. In my opinion, when mathematics is presented as a series of algorithms, the methodology lacks rigor. More of the why and wherefore needs to be presented. How this is done varies between curricular philosophies. So, for example, in classic geometry we have the proof. In a more user friendly approach, we have the construction. (A construction lacks the rigor of the proof, but is often more accessible to a student, offering an "aha" moment.) A list of qualities of triangles without justification is not rigorous. A method of "do this" without explanation is not rigorous.

 

I suppose this can be extended to other disciplines besides math. When we began looking at French curricula, for example, it seemed that some focused on vocabulary without grammar. I don't know how anyone can learn a foreign language without understanding grammar. (I think there is an argument of grammar absorption by immersion but I lack understanding.) Again, there should be more than just "do this" or "say this"--explain the case, the tense, the nuance.

 

Consider science. When a student plays with baking soda and vinegar, they are doing just that: playing. This is perfect for a young child, but many elementary aged students can understand chemical reactions. Or consider biology. I think young students easily understand structural differences like radial symmetry vs. bilateral symmetry. A rigorous program uses correct vocabulary, offers definitions and explanations.

 

I guess what I am trying to say with my examples is that rigor allows our students to think by giving them the proper tools, i.e. structural foundation.

[LidiyaDawn]

I don't define it ~ I let people define it for themselves. Every family is different and what one views as "rigorous" another may not - as evidenced by the other thread just recently created. There are a few people who posted naming specific programs or educational styles that they don't consider "rigorous" -- but other families may view them as exactly that.

[Parrothead]

The first thing that popped into my head is the hardening of the muscles after death - rigor mortis.

 

That apparently isn't what you are talking about, is it?

 

In that case I have to agree with Lidiya. Each has his/her own idea of what is academically rigorous.

[AuntPol]

In that case I have to agree with Lidiya. Each has his/her own idea of what is academically rigorous.

 

That is what I am asking. What is considered rigorous for your family?

[kalanamak]

Upping the challenge level. Not doing page after page of mindless "busywork" but actually making the student have to think.

 

:iagree: Not just a page full of answers, but "why", tell me why. This is harder for an 8 year old to do that just rip through the algorithm, or compare the grammar answers with the examples he has floating around in his head. It means going back over things. Okay, we've moved onto interjections, but what is this little word over here? Yes, a preposition, we covered that last week.

 

It is integrating more and more subjects together. Is this story problem active or passive voice? Ah, these monarchs had consanguinity .... con, the same root as conjunction -- what does it mean?

 

Etc. This way "rigorous" has to do with *that child*, not "this program is rigorous because all 10 year olds will be working on a 7th grade level". It has to do with stretching to what you can, not faking at what you can't, but (fist pounding on the table) just look at what a big book we read!

 

I once read someone comparing homeschooling for rigor as "The Socratic Method without Socrates". Call it hubris, perhaps, but I feel I can be enough of one to an 8 year old, and I'm peddling as fast as I can to keep a few years ahead. :)

[kalanamak]

oops

Edited April 23, 2011 by kalanamak
Again?

[Mimm]

I guess I think of it as demanding more. I want to challenge my kids without overwhelming them. It's a fine line and I don't do it perfectly.

 

On another note, I looked up rigorous at dictionary.com and they give synonyms like oppressive, uncompromising, burdensome, inflexible. :) I don't consider a rigorous education to be these things. At that point, you've gone too far. But yes, challenging, interesting, demanding and stimulating.

[Stacy in NJ]

Also how people/teachers/parents/students use and think about any specific resource or strategy varies considerably.

 

While some might think Kumons math worksheets are page after page of repetitive busy-work, others see it as part of a larger practice/learning process.

 

Chanting Latin forms, multiplication tables, and grammar definitions might be mindless drill and kill to some. Or, it could be a necessary practice to others.

 

A crafty art project might be a necessary reinforcement to help the student personalize/visualize a concept, or it could be a silly time waster.

 

Group projects could be an opportunity to practice cooperative learning, or they're an opportunity to dump the majority of the work on the hardest working member of the group.

 

Rigor is what exercises the brain - exercise comes in many forms and shapes.

 

I don't define it ~ I let people define it for themselves. Every family is different and what one views as "rigorous" another may not - as evidenced by the other thread just recently created. There are a few people who posted naming specific programs or educational styles that they don't consider "rigorous" -- but other families may view them as exactly that.

[lauracolumbus]

More than what I'm doing...

[Ester Maria]

There is an aspect of quantity and an aspect of quality when it comes to rigor: the former means that rigorous education usually includes more than what is "standard", "expected", "average" or "normal" at a given age (for example, doing several school subjects more, but without those additional areas lowering the level of subjects studied, i.e. simply more, not "more at the cost of lowering the level studies"), while the latter aspect means that the areas studied, or at least some of them, are studied better, or on what one would call a cognitively higher level than what is "standard", "expected", "prescribed", etc. (that would mean more in-detail treatment of topics, "higher order thinking skills" if the student is ready for them, challenging work as opposed to busy work, what have you). So, in that sense, a rigorous education would be marked as a breach from the "ordinary" education in one or both of those ways and the ultimate result of a rigorous education could thus be viewed as "having accomplished higher level in more areas", more or less.

 

However, that was a sort of "relative" definition of a rigorous education, the one which considers it comparing it to other types of education. From a more "absolute" standpoint, without comparing to others, the SAME child can receive more or less rigorous education, based on their own potential and needs, while that might not exactly correspond to another child's level or even to the aforementioned "box" of what would be rigorous if we look at it from the "system" standpoint. That is a sort of relativitist notion of education, "what is the best education, the rigorous for this particular child rather than overall", etc.

 

So, depending on your inclination, you may view it one way or the other way, or a combination of both. :lol:

[Daisy]

For my family you can just say rigor would mean..

 

Diligence

Challenge

Steadfastness

 

It isn't about the curricula or the hours. It is about my children learning to their potential, pushing themselves beyond the minimum requirement, and learning that the best things in life are hard-won.

 

According to my definition the 65yo mom I know who is homeschooling her adopted daughter with profound learning disabilities has a very rigorous homeschool. They never give up. Never. Even when she has to start at the beginning one more time.

 

On the flip side the kid who is bored and unchallenged even if doing an amazing classical curricula line-up isn't getting a rigorous education.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Daisy

[mcconnellboys]

I think it is the difficulty level of the work you are completing, whether math, writing, or reading, etc. If you are consistently using materials that are below your child's grade level ability, then you would not be doing a rigorous program. If you are stretching them by letting them attempt work that might be above their grade level, then you are doing rigorous work.

 

I don't want to step on toes by naming particular curriculums, but there are some that are just known for not being very rigorous. As a simple example that I hope no one here is using, because I've never seen it mentioned, if I bought a McGraw Hill Complete Sixth Grade Curriculum workbook, which is really just meant to be used for afterschooling or reinforcement type work, and I used only that as my complete curriculum for the year, then I would not be doing rigorous work with my child. The last time I checked, there are only about 80-90 pages of work included for each subject, which would cover half or less of the school year.... I have known people here who used that as their child's curriculum for the year. That's just not doing justice to educating your child if you are using that alone....

[Veritaserum]

For me, a rigorous homeschool education:

 

• Makes the student think--stretches his/her ability.
  
• Doesn't dumb things down (correct vocabulary, explanations of concepts on a developmentally appropriate level).
  
• Is systematic (progresses logically and builds upon previously learned skills/content).
  
• Is consistent (school is held regularly and is generally given priority status over other activities).
  
• Gives a solid foundation of skills that equip the student to think logically, communicate intelligently, and understand thoroughly.
  
• Is both broad and deep (humanities and sciences, languages and arts). I struggle with this one. :tongue_smilie: Skills (math, grammar, etc.) get priority here ATM, but I expect that focus to shift as my children age and gain proficiency. :)
  

[PentecostalMom]

I guess I think of it as demanding more. I want to challenge my kids without overwhelming them. It's a fine line and I don't do it perfectly.

 

On another note, I looked up rigorous at dictionary.com and they give synonyms like oppressive, uncompromising, burdensome, inflexible. :) I don't consider a rigorous education to be these things. At that point, you've gone too far. But yes, challenging, interesting, demanding and stimulating.

 

:iagree:

[twoxcell]

I have no idea what people mean when they say that, and honestly the word makes me think of corpses. :lol: It is just an ugly word to me, but maybe I'm strange.

[Tohru]

For my family you can just say rigor would mean..

 

Diligence

Challenge

Steadfastness

 

It isn't about the curricula or the hours. It is about my children learning to their potential, pushing themselves beyond the minimum requirement, and learning that the best things in life are hard-won....

 

 

This is great! I like this definition.

 

 

I also agree that it's an unpleasant word, especially pertaining to education.

Mimm's thesaurus example is the perfect image of what I visualize when some one uses it to describe their educational practice.

...

On another note, I looked up rigorous at dictionary.com and they give synonyms like oppressive, uncompromising, burdensome, inflexible....

[Maverick_Mom]

I have no idea what people mean when they say that, and honestly the word makes me think of corpses. :lol: It is just an ugly word to me, but maybe I'm strange.

 

Well, if you're strange, I'm strange right along with you. ;)

 

I also agree that it's an unpleasant word, especially pertaining to education.

 

 

For reasons that I don't entirely understand and that are probably very personal, the word "rigor" sets my teeth on edge. I value many of the things that others in this thread have used to describe how they define "rigor" -- but for whatever reason, I don't think of those things when I think of "rigor." For me, the word has very negative connotations (pain, for instance).

 

An acquaintance was describing her dd's experience in a particular class in high school (ps). She kept using the word "brutal." The word itself made me cringe -- and then I realized that she (the mom) was using the word as if it was a good thing. She was *glad* that her dd's experience had been "brutal" -- that apparently gave it validity. All I could think was that "education" and "brutal" were two words that didn't belong together. But maybe if I'd asked her about it, I would've found that what she was describing as "brutal" was just really, really challenging in a good way. And maybe "rigor" is the same kind of challenge, and my problem is the way I perceive the word.

[allyall]

Interesting thread to read. I think when I think of rigor I think more of the outcome. I believe if you come out of the course of study with a deep understanding of a topic and an ability to share and apply that knowledge then it was a rigorous study.

[Crimson Wife]

For me, the word has very negative connotations (pain, for instance).

 

To each his own. For me "rigorous" has very positive connotations, like the word "vigorous". Vigorous exercise is good for the body; rigorous academics are good for the mind :D

[mytwomonkeys]

oh. i guess this should have been defined first in the other thread, as i may have had a different answer. i think of "rigor" as something that is more strict, inflexible, and well...hard, lol.

 

so when asked, "am i a rigorous homeschooler?", i was assuming it meant in regard to our schedule and our curriculum. i answered, somewhere in the middle.

 

i'm not an unschooler by any means, but we are flexible and i tend to adapt our curriculum to the student & not the student to the curriculum.

[Jane in NC]

To each his own. For me "rigorous" has very positive connotations, like the word "vigorous". Vigorous exercise is good for the body; rigorous academics are good for the mind :D

 

People in math and science use the term "rigor" regularly and in a a positive way. Perhaps "rigor" in other disciplines suggests an absolutism which bristles?

[Maverick_Mom]

To each his own. For me "rigorous" has very positive connotations, like the word "vigorous". Vigorous exercise is good for the body; rigorous academics are good for the mind :D

 

Playing devil's advocate here -- then why don't we use "vigorous" in both areas? "Vigorous" I like; "rigorous" I don't -- and again, I'm sure that it goes back to some association I've made with the word "rigor" that I don't even remember.

 

What would you say is the difference between "vigorous" and "rigorous"? (I need to tend to dinner but really want to look up the origins of the two words.)

[Capt_Uhura]

Vigor: physical strength and good health.

• effort, energy, and enthusiasm : they set about the new task with vigor.

 

Rigor: the quality of being extremely thorough, exhaustive, or accurate : his analysis is lacking in rigor.

• severity or strictness : the full rigor of the law.

• ( rigors) demanding, difficult, or extreme conditions : the rigors of a harsh winter.

 

They are not synonyms. I could say, "P90X is a rigorous exercise program."

 

ACK - forgot I have hair color in my hair!

[stripe]

Etymology of rigor/rigour, per the OED:

 

Etymology: < Anglo-Norman and Middle French rigour, Middle French rigeur, rigueur (French rigueur) inflexible severity, severity, harshness (12th cent. in Old French), strict application (of laws) (13th cent.), feeling of tingling or prickling (a1365 in medical context), (in plural) repressive measures (15th cent.), cruelty (15th cent.), harshness that is difficult to bear (end of the 15th cent., of cold, etc.), exactitude, precision (1580) and its etymon classical Latin rigor unbending quality, stiffness, rigidity, numbness, numbness of the body in fever, unyielding hardness, frozen condition, quality of being stiffly erect, tautness, inflexibility, sternness, severity, uncouthness

 

There is an aspect of quantity and an aspect of quality when it comes to rigor: the former means that rigorous education usually includes more than what is "standard", "expected", "average" or "normal" at a given age (for example, doing several school subjects more, but without those additional areas lowering the level of subjects studied, i.e. simply more, not "more at the cost of lowering the level studies"

See, I don't like to compare to "average," because then if education improves, .... or education declines, ... then the term becomes meaningless. Like "above average weight" if the population is generally obese or malnourished.

[Tohru]

nt

Edited April 25, 2011 by jadedone80

[Ester Maria]

See, I don't like to compare to "average," because then if education improves, .... or education declines, ... then the term becomes meaningless. Like "above average weight" if the population is generally obese or malnourished.

I agree. However, I believe I stated this as a part of the response which considers the definition from a "relative" standpoint: what would be rigorous if we looked at the whole spectrum of educational opportunities and compared what we see. Then we could mark some options as rigorous and some as lenient, in a relative sense. Then I proceeded on tackling the term if we took it absolutely (i.e. referring to only one situation, not comparing to other situations existing out there): such as labels of "rigorous for this child, even if for some other child the same option could be marked as lenient", etc. Ultimately, in the context of home education which is by definition tailored to individual needs, one is more interested in the latter standpoint, no matter where that falls on the broad educational spectrum. One can still compare with what is out there, but one does not need to "box" the kid the way the system does. So there are indeed multiple options of an intellectually rigorous education when you look at kids as individuals, and you have the privilege of that when you school them at home.

 

Personally, the word "rigor" does not evoke any negative concepts in my mind. Maybe a bit of scholastic inflexibility at times, a sort of subtle "legalism" in school, but then again, I am that crazy person who questions the sacred axiom of our times that education should be maximally flexible and customizeable at all times and who is not entirely opposed to some forms of legalism in some measure when it comes to education. :tongue_smilie:

 

I suppose I primarily tie the concept of rigor to the one of intellectual discipline. Discipline is also one of those problematic words, it can be used pejoratively and with totalitarian undertones, but it can also be used as a perfectly normal word with positive connotations of self-control, guided process, determination, etc. So to me, rigorous education is ultimately an intellectually disciplined one, to the best of one's abilities, as opposed to a more lenient model which can also be intellectually thriving on the long run, in which kids can also learn a lot, but which maybe lacks that consistent intellectual discipline? Not sure. There are many ways to interpret the label, but in my eyes it is for sure not a negative label. :001_smile:

[Embassy]

A thorough education.

 

That might show up with more time spent, a greater range of subjects studied, or greater depth of subject matter studied. So I guess a rigorous education could be a deep, wide, and/or long approach.

[Heather in WI]

Rigor has a positive connotation in our house. :)

 

Although, I see from the actual definition that my definition of it is faulty. :D

 

In my mind, a rigorous education equals high expectations of the student, curricula (or a variety of curricula put together in a way) that thoroughly covers the given subject(s), and a teacher that is consistently and actively involved in guiding and challenging the student.

[Tohru]

Interesting. A lot to think about.

Edited April 25, 2011 by jadedone80

[Michelle My Bell]

Define "Rigorous" however you all want to... I am major sick of it to be honest. It seems like it is the homeschool catch phrase and the thing to be. It seems like a good word for people to boast in and to try and make others feel small.

 

Honestly, I say this calmly, not with attitude.

 

If you want to know how I homeschool? I work towards helping my children learn and we enjoy it together in the process. That is it.