Child who wont sleep

[In2why]

Okay with 5 kids, you would think I would have come across this at some point, but I am at my wits end. Our 7 year old won't sleep. He goes to bed at 8pm, but fiddles until 10 or 11pm. He is in the dark, and he isn't talking or gettig up or into anything that I could take away. Although he will bug his brother until the brother ignores him and falls asleep. I can't put them in separate rooms, we don't have another room. I figured it was just a stage, but now he is sleepy during the day and it effects his ability to learn. I thought about giving him a nap during the day, but then I am really afraid he won't sleep. I also thought perhaps he is just a natural night owl and he could sleep in the mornings since we homeschool and I would work around it. Nope he is up at the crack of dawn to play with the others, before we school. Any suggestions? He seems healthy, and there haven't been any emotional upheavals. I figured we would ride it out, and not get into a power struggle over it, but something has to change. I just tried to explain borrowing in subtraction, and could tell that because he was tired he just wasn't capable of getting a new concept. But as long as it is busy work he coasts along, not really having to give anything to the process.

[Keniki]

You might try giving him Melatonin. We get it at Wal-Mart. My ds (almost 12) takes it on the nights he has trouble going to sleep. He said it usually kicks in about 30 minutes after he takes it.

[Lisa in Jax]

I second the melatonin. DS used to lie awake for 90+ minutes at night; he was sleepy and grumpy (my two *least* favorite dwarves!) ;-) in the morning.

 

Melatonin helped him go to sleep quickly and wake up refreshed. :)

 

Lisa

[all4them]

Yes, malatonin or another homeopathic sleep aid for kids.....

also good "sleep hygiene" routines etc. Establish this now or he will possibly have lots of trouble with insomnia as he grows

[kchara]

I haven't tried melatonin for my kids, but I've heard it works wonders. There's also a kid's bedtime tea I see sometimes at the health food store. It has an owl on the front. My kids didn't care for it, but I didn't think it was all that bad. ;-)

[bookfiend]

Maybe he needs more time to wind down at the end of the evening, a nice warm bath and 30 minutes of quiet reading or music before lights out? Is he going into bedtime ramped up? I know my two who share a room will sometimes get hyper silly and active right before bedtime. Then, it takes twice as long to shut off their brains.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

 

• I know naps can help with the little ones because without them they are over-tired which makes it harder to fall asleep.
  
• Is he eating enough dinner?
  
• Have you tried warm milk? (I always hated that as a kid, but yours might like it.)
  
• I would work him out with physical stuff for at least 30 min around 2 hours before he goes down to sleep. You don't want to do it right before because it's to much stimulation.
  
• Does he take a warm bath/shower at night? Some people that helps, some people (like my dh) it wakes them up.
  
• The natural supplement Melatonin helps me with my insomnia. You can spit the pill, you don't need a lot, especially if it's a kid, and with my mil 1/3 a pill works better than a whole pill.
  
• Humidifier
  
• White noise machine/calming music?
  

 

Edited February 23, 2011 by theYoungerMrsWarde

[In2why]

I appreciate the suggestions. I never gave Melatonin a thought and have never tried herbals, I will have to look into them.

I don't think it is because he isn't active enough, in fact it might be because he is too tired? He runs, bikes, and plays sports many days and is pretty active. I am going to start with the bath as part of his wind down routine, because right now he usually takes him bath earlier, and then has time to get woundup again. I hadn't even thought about how toddlers get so worn out that they can't go to sleep hitting older kids, but that could be possible. Maybe I am missing his sleepy window and should put him to bed even earlier.

 

Thanks I will experiment with the suggestions and hopefully something will click.

[gardening momma]

Just check on the age recommendations for Melatonin. I don't know if it will be on the bottle, you might have to look online. But I agree that it works. Several months ago I was having trouble getting to sleep. I'd lie awake for hours. I tried Melatonin, and it did kick in within about 30 minutes (enough that I'd better be ready for bed, or I felt I'd keel over). I took it for less than a week and that was all that was needed to get me back on schedule.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I had another thought. How much sugar is he getting in the afternoon? I know that can effect some kids for hours after they've had it.

[Mergath]

I was like that as a kid. I never went to sleep before around eleven, because I was wide awake and didn't feel tired at all. My mom making me go to bed early just made it worse, because lying in the dark for three hours does nothing to help you fall asleep. And I was up by six or seven usually, too. I was never tired during the day. Some kids just don't need as much sleep.

 

If it's any consolation, I outgrew it once I hit twelve or thirteen. I still stayed up late, but I slept much later in the morning. I'm a night owl to this day.

[mommy4ever]

Melatonin is safe for kids. My girlfriend has a son that uses it at the recommendation of their dr. It's not needed long term. Sometimes, for whatever reason, their rhythm gets thrown off, and their brains don't let them settle. They aren't getting their natural sleep signals. This will help get them on track.

 

I use it with 2 of mine on occasion. My 7yo and 11 yo are the same way. It is in spurts. I need to start the 11yo on it again, she has been up late with the 'mom, i can't sleep' syndrome, keeping me up. It DOES work.

[Wyndie]

Magnesium also helps. It calms the muscles in the body so you can relax and sleep. Just in case the melatonin doesn't work. :)

[Sandragood1]

Note that melatonin pills come in a variety of dosages. We use 1 mg pills with our kids when they need it.

 

DD's neurologist mentioned that dosages in melatonin - even those rated the same by the same manufacturer - differ widely from bottle to bottle. So when you get a new bottle, if it seems too strong or too weak, you are not imagining it. Just adjust your dosing accordingly.

 

It does really work. We find it take 30-60 minutes to kick in for the kids.

 

Sandra

[Catherine]

Before I gave anything pharmacologic, I would just sit with him. I put my kids to bed for many many years and at age 9, ds now often falls asleep without me there, but only recently. It is normal for a child to be more relaxed with a parent nearby. When I did this with my fidgety, chatty child, I made a rule that after we finished talking, he had to be silent, find a comfy spot, and lie absolutely still for 3 minutes. It was the rare night that he did not fall asleep right away.

[Mom-ninja.]

Read this book. Really. It was so helpful for me.

[Cindyg]

Another vote for Melatonin. It's considered a "wonder drug" at our house. You'll know almost immediately if it will work. If it doesn't make a miraculous difference, it's not the "wonder drug" for your son. Apparently some people lack it, and it works for them. If you don't lack it (and your sleeplessness is due to something else), it won't work for you.

 

We have given our son 1/2 mg sublingually (the kind you suck) nightly from age 5 till now 13 with no regrets. He feels sleepy within 15 minutes.

 

Before Melatonin, he NEVER once laid down and fell asleep in a peaceful way.

[kwickimom]

Currently I use this:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/HY035/ItemDetail

 

It has been working well for us. Both my DS's are restless, have night terrors, and wake frequently.

This works for us. If it ever stops working, I will try melatonin!

[helena]

We use Epsom baths before bed or a tiny glass of Natural Calm

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Calm-Rasp-Lemon-powder/dp/B000WVY4PE

[Joker]

I've seen many threads here where parents advise using melatonin and I'm considering. My older dd has serious trouble sleeping (she's like me) but I've read that it can cause horrible nightmares. How true is this? It's given me pause but I don't know what else to try that we haven't already. Thanks!

[katilac]

I've seen many threads here where parents advise using melatonin and I'm considering. My older dd has serious trouble sleeping (she's like me) but I've read that it can cause horrible nightmares. How true is this? It's given me pause but I don't know what else to try that we haven't already. Thanks!

 

It goes cause nightmares for some people. It doesn't for me or dd, but I do tend to have weird, vivid dreams. Too high of a dose can cause this in some people, others can't take any at all. I was definitely willing to risk a few nightmares for the chance of improved sleeping (for us, it definitely helps, but not in the miracle cure manner others speak of, or so quickly).

 

Edited to add that I have an uncle who states that it was a miracle cure for him. He credits it with enabling him to get sober after a lifetime of drinking, as he no longer needed to self-medicate (never knew what it felt like to feel calm and well-rested).

Edited February 24, 2011 by katilac

[arghmatey]

Several of the above are good suggestions.

 

Also consider the exclusion of caffeine from his diet and no activity in bed (not even reading) other than sleep.

[KidsHappen]

I've seen many threads here where parents advise using melatonin and I'm considering. My older dd has serious trouble sleeping (she's like me) but I've read that it can cause horrible nightmares. How true is this? It's given me pause but I don't know what else to try that we haven't already. Thanks!

 

 

It gave me nightmares and even on nights I didn't have the nightmares it was a horrible, restless, fitful sleep. I would rather be awake. I have two insomniacs. One can take melatonin and it helps her and doesn't cause any problems (she is 17, almost 18 and manages her meds herself) but it doesn't seem to help the youngest. She also takes two Benedryl at night due to excema and she has been taking it for a long time so it doesn't make her sleepy either. There is not really much else I can do. She just gets by on less sleep and makes it up on the weekends when she can sleep late.

[Pippen]

Maybe he needs more time to wind down at the end of the evening, a nice warm bath and 30 minutes of quiet reading or music before lights out? Is he going into bedtime ramped up? I know my two who share a room will sometimes get hyper silly and active right before bedtime. Then, it takes twice as long to shut off their brains.

 

One of mine needed "something" to wind down before bed, and all the usual stuff didn't help. Oddly enough what did help was 15 minutes of playing computer games. I know it goes against all the Good Mother's List of Bedtime Rules ;) but having his body and mind all focused intently in one place did wonders.

[Cindyg]

Re -- Nightmares with Melatonin: Start with a small dose. The one time my son accidentally took more than his usual dose, he did have weird dreams.

 

Sadly it doesn't work for everyone, but it's easy enough to try for one night.

 

I knew 15 minutes after my son had his first dose that we had struck gold. You just can't imagine the difference it has made in our home.

[Laura Corin]

How much exercise does he get? I used to reckon on an hour of good exercise per day (red-in-the-face exercise) for my kids. It helped with sleep and (for me) it's as essential as English or maths.

 

Laura